[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Hello all, Here is my first batch of auctions for the year.. keep watch int he comming weeks as i'll have some new goodies to offer (both new to me and new period). This week includes some of my old standbys - as well as some of the last of my awsome new LL3.10, some mars rock and for the amature scientists out there - I'm going to start offering saw cuttings after a fellow list member asked for some material for an experiment in growing seedlings in 'space dirt'. End times start Jan 10 at 18:42 PDT TIA! http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1 (remeber to scroll past the laser junk - unless thats your bag too! ;) ) _ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improvelocale=en-USsource=hmemailtaglinenov06FORM=WLMTAG __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Hello all, another group of auctions ending in about 2 days. End times start at about 19:14 PDT on November 21 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1 You will have to scroll past a good number of laser items to get to the meteorite goodies - unless ofcourse you happen to not be able to live without a spectra physics 60w cw laser diode bar. Highlights from this weeks auctions include my biggest piece of nwa 011/2400 paired material, and what is likely to be my last piece of super nice R 3-6 breccia with neat black primitive type 3 inclusions (both stones have had type specimins submitted and i will have unique nwa numbers for them shortly). Some of my regular standbys like awsome small bits of seymchan, and the last few pieces of my new acapulcoite and angrite. Some polymict dioginite an awsome H4 and my personal favorite LL3.7 The R is really worth a gander even if you arent interested in bidding as I was able to snap some very nice closeups of the interesting features in this material. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280049470013indexURL=0photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting TIA and happy turkey day to all! _ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601tcode=wlmtagline __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [eBay] ending in about 2 days
Hello all, I have another batch of ebay stuff ending in about two days. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0? Please scroll past the assorted laser stuff to find meteorites. On an unrelated note it seems interestingly enough that a number of meteorite people are also interested in lasers. An unusual convergance of intrests, no? This week up for grabs is my last thin slice of my awsome LL3.10 - I have 2 more small chunks that I may turn into slices sometime down the road, but they represent only a few more grams of material. Another piece of my new NWA angrite - getting down to the smaller pieces on that one. A very nice large surface area winonaite. More acapulcoite, seymchan, polymict diogenite, kainsaz, and a few others. Also in this weeks round of auctions are a few pieces of newly recovered material. A small part slice from a 95g stone that is paired to nwa 011/2400 - this is the original 'it must be from mercury' material - although that theory has now been largely discounted due to the calculated age of formation. (see: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2003/pdf/5103.pdf ) Finally something special. Last on the list is an AWSOME piece of R chondrite. Based on the unique apearance of this material alone I think this to be paired to the R 3-6 that has been around lately in small fragments. Well this is no fragment but a large, thin full slice! Look at the pics and judge for yourself http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280046347738indexURL=4#ebayphotohosting even if you arent buying click on the high resolution versions of the images. the breccia of highly metamorphosed material in contrast with the vivid black type three is really worth taking the time to see! I only have 2 more slices of this material, one is likely sold to a friend of mine and another is no where near as nice, so if you are in the market for the best of the best jump on this opportunity as it likely wont be repeated! Both the nwa 011/2400 and the R material have had type spceimins deposited with a nomcom aproved laboratory and numbers specific to these stones will be forthcomming shortly. The classification of both stones as as an R and paired to nwa 011 has already been confirmed by the science guys. TIA - and if you are bidding, best of luck! _ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo005002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Hello all A few more ebay items ending shortly. End times start at about 18:28 PST on Thursday Nov 2. some of the highlights include my new acapulcoite, new angrite, as usuall some killer seymchan. another slice of my KILLER LL3.10, some plantary saw dust (the rest has been donated to scientific research, so get this is the only lot i'll have avalible!), some H/L 3, my awsome 'pallasite like' polymict diogenite, very fresh CR2 and a few others. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1 once i have the time to do some more cutting i have material paired to nwa 011, a winonaite, a new CO3, a new L/LL3 and a few other goodies to add to my weekly offerings, so keep watch! TIA! _ Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp007001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=createwx_url=/friends.aspxmkt=en-us __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Right Dave, I'm also very sure about, that now potential buyers will scramble to get a piece of NWA 1839, NWA 3133 and all other numbers and supposed pairings mentioned in that discussion :-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dave Carothers Gesendet: Montag, 16. Oktober 2006 05:45 An: stan .; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Yes, and I'm sure that buyers and potential buyeers appreciate that. Dave - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Any time a seller clarifies or corrects a sales description or ad, we the buyers are the beneficiaries of the additional/clarifying information and we can thus make a better informed decision to buy or not buy the material in question. dont forget that i also added half a dozen new photographs in better lighting conditions that show off the apearance of the specimin better ;) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Hello Stan and List, To set the record straight, I DID NOT get my NWA 2999 material from Aaronson. I had mine well before him and in the labs before anyone. Don't mind the lower NWA number you may have, just an older set of numbers NAU had. Ask Ted, he will set you straight. I have no worries of you or anyone flooding the market. You obviously do not know me at all. I am not concerned with all of that, just doing what I enjoy and the right thing, waiting for the scientists to do a proper job, and am quite simply tired of coat-tailers like yourself. I have heard from collectors privately on how they feel of your types and how it effects the meteorite community, collectors and the science of it all. I go through too much effort to go the distance to get the proper information concerning any meteorite I offer. Sometimes this takes much work going to Morocco, Western Sahara, or where ever, just to have your types get the wrong information and run with it as if you were running a quarter mile race instead of the bigger picture. I go to Morocco on average just about every six weeks so I know what is going on there. Don't assume that because you have someone from the Denver Show mail you some rocks that you know what the scoop is. If you are not in such a big hurry to offer your material, why not wait until you have your full classifications, numbers and then you can confidently offer your classified material to the world. Enough time wasted on this subject that has been hashed out time and time again, usually by the cause of such lazy and all-too-quick people eager to release a new meteorite. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Greg why dont you bother to read the whole gosh darned ebay listing before you accuse me of self pairing and asking me if i'm a scientist - to avoid making yourself look like a fool who is just trying to protect his market share without giving a rat's behind about the collectors. My ebay ad specifically states that NAU has ALREADY determined this material to be an angrite - and that the material is (provisional) NWA 2934. All that Dr. Bunch was waiting on before making this offical is the remainder of the type specimin deposit since Adam Aaronson's sample (the same source for Boswell's material and yours as well AFIK) was bellow the 20g requirement. the remainder of this mass he should have by next week the postal services willing. Now i guess you could argue that Dr. Bunch might not know what he is doing and i shouldnt offer the material till the classification is voted on by the nomcom - but since Dr. Bunch co-authored the 'case for mercury' paper AND took part in the classification of nwa 2999 I personally think his word on the matter is good enough for me. I fully disclosed that the number is provisional and that the assumption of pairing was based upon information from my source. I dont see what kind of (legitimate) complaint you might have. I have maybe another 5g of this material that is 'extra' to my collection from opening up the cut face on the stone i bought and removing material to finialize the type specimin donation. No need to worry about my flooding the market greg - after that 5g you can go back to selling the stuff for as much money as you can get. now why dont YOU do the right thing and apologize to the list for this BS. From: Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.131]) by bay0-mc3-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:44:06 -0700 Received: from Gregor (dt062n83.tampabay.res.rr.com [24.92.16.131])by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k9F2i31l021545;Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt3660MmjhEvYg2f34OAemlKtU9j2Z7TuGo= References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2006 02:44:06.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8953E70:01C6F003] Dear Stan and List Members, Stan wrote: ...an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows off translucent augite... Stan, this looks like very bad business ethics in a few ways, especially in undermining collector confidence in what YOU sell. Your eBay title reads, new NWA angrite meteorite possible NWA 2999/3164
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, Nowhere in your auction did you say that a provisional number was assigned. It is simple, use your own NWA numbers from now on whether they are provisional or not. It is dangerous to make pairing statements, let the scientists do their job in this regard and make it formal. You made pairing statements in the past that were found to be in error (NWA 1839/3133) and this new item looks nothing like any piece of NWA 2999 I have seen so I can understand Greg's concern. Greg went through the trouble of removing a type sample from each of the 12 stones just to make sure what he is offering is the real deal. I think you owe him an apology for jumping the gun on this one. Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Greg why dont you bother to read the whole gosh darned ebay listing before you accuse me of self pairing and asking me if i'm a scientist - to avoid making yourself look like a fool who is just trying to protect his market share without giving a rat's behind about the collectors. My ebay ad specifically states that NAU has ALREADY determined this material to be an angrite - and that the material is (provisional) NWA 2934. All that Dr. Bunch was waiting on before making this offical is the remainder of the type specimin deposit since Adam Aaronson's sample (the same source for Boswell's material and yours as well AFIK) was bellow the 20g requirement. the remainder of this mass he should have by next week the postal services willing. Now i guess you could argue that Dr. Bunch might not know what he is doing and i shouldnt offer the material till the classification is voted on by the nomcom - but since Dr. Bunch co-authored the 'case for mercury' paper AND took part in the classification of nwa 2999 I personally think his word on the matter is good enough for me. I fully disclosed that the number is provisional and that the assumption of pairing was based upon information from my source. I dont see what kind of (legitimate) complaint you might have. I have maybe another 5g of this material that is 'extra' to my collection from opening up the cut face on the stone i bought and removing material to finialize the type specimin donation. No need to worry about my flooding the market greg - after that 5g you can go back to selling the stuff for as much money as you can get. now why dont YOU do the right thing and apologize to the list for this BS. From: Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.131]) by bay0-mc3-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:44:06 -0700 Received: from Gregor (dt062n83.tampabay.res.rr.com [24.92.16.131])by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k9F2i31l021545;Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt3660MmjhEvYg2f34OAemlKtU9j2Z7TuGo= References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2006 02:44:06.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8953E70:01C6F003] Dear Stan and List Members, Stan wrote: ...an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows off translucent augite... Stan, this looks like very bad business ethics in a few ways, especially in undermining collector confidence in what YOU sell. Your eBay title reads, new NWA angrite meteorite possible NWA 2999/3164 pairs. This appears to be more self-pairing, are you a scientist? What is YOUR NWA number that was assigned to this material which actually looks like your ureilite a while back you claimed as pallasite-like (now that phrase sounds familiar!!). When I discovered NWA 2999 (the real McCoy!), there were only 12 complete stones in which I cut every single one of them and provided material to have thin sections made to determine they were all paired, which they were. Here is a link to a photo of those twelve OFFICIAL NWA 2999 stones: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2999/nwa2999a.jpg (notice how they are all flat on bottom where I cut a piece off for thin sections). There were however, a couple additional potential angrite stones that proved not to be angrite material so you need to have the scientists do their job and get an officially assigned NWA number for your material, whatever it may be. This needs to be done with all suspected meteorites, especially as rare and important as an angrite! In your eBay ad you state the material was purchased for you from
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Adam, Are you and your brother blind? here it is spelled out in crayon for you - i have highligted the portion of my auction that you both have claimed dont exist in red - please scroll down all the way and READ the entire description: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5415/adamandgregkp9.jpg Still think I'm the one jumping the gun? I personally am at a loss as to why you would say that this material doesnt look like 2999 unless my photography just plain sucks (i'll admit to this possibility) - every piece i have looks EXACTLY like photos you have posted. Blaine Reed thinks that this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. Adam Aaronson (the original source for ALL of this material AFIK) thinks this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. At least one scientist I have spoken with thinks that this material looks EXACTLY like your material. on the subject of nwa 3133/1839 - you had said that the reason for your belief that the stones were not paired was based upon new isotopse analysis (other than oxygen) do you have any actual data that you can share that will back up your claim? I'd be most interested in it. FWIW claims about pairings on this stone/2999 and on 1839/3133 were not my own - In both cases I have put forth all the avalible information I have on the material as well as citing the source of the claim in question. From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stan, Nowhere in your auction did you say that a provisional number was assigned. It is simple, use your own NWA numbers from now on whether they are provisional or not. It is dangerous to make pairing statements, let the scientists do their job in this regard and make it formal. You made pairing statements in the past that were found to be in error (NWA 1839/3133) and this new item looks nothing like any piece of NWA 2999 I have seen so I can understand Greg's concern. Greg went through the trouble of removing a type sample from each of the 12 stones just to make sure what he is offering is the real deal. I think you owe him an apology for jumping the gun on this one. Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Greg why dont you bother to read the whole gosh darned ebay listing before you accuse me of self pairing and asking me if i'm a scientist - to avoid making yourself look like a fool who is just trying to protect his market share without giving a rat's behind about the collectors. My ebay ad specifically states that NAU has ALREADY determined this material to be an angrite - and that the material is (provisional) NWA 2934. All that Dr. Bunch was waiting on before making this offical is the remainder of the type specimin deposit since Adam Aaronson's sample (the same source for Boswell's material and yours as well AFIK) was bellow the 20g requirement. the remainder of this mass he should have by next week the postal services willing. Now i guess you could argue that Dr. Bunch might not know what he is doing and i shouldnt offer the material till the classification is voted on by the nomcom - but since Dr. Bunch co-authored the 'case for mercury' paper AND took part in the classification of nwa 2999 I personally think his word on the matter is good enough for me. I fully disclosed that the number is provisional and that the assumption of pairing was based upon information from my source. I dont see what kind of (legitimate) complaint you might have. I have maybe another 5g of this material that is 'extra' to my collection from opening up the cut face on the stone i bought and removing material to finialize the type specimin donation. No need to worry about my flooding the market greg - after that 5g you can go back to selling the stuff for as much money as you can get. now why dont YOU do the right thing and apologize to the list for this BS. From: Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.131]) by bay0-mc3-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:44:06 -0700 Received: from Gregor (dt062n83.tampabay.res.rr.com [24.92.16.131])by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k9F2i31l021545;Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt3660MmjhEvYg2f34OAemlKtU9j2Z7TuGo= References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2006 02:44:06.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8953E70:01C6F003
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, The complaints have been pouring in about your supposed pairing for days, every since your action started. I see you added a provisional number at the very bottom of your auction after the damage was already done. Why not wait for a formal report in order to release this item if it is due out shortly? This confuses collectors and is misleading. Why is that you mention our last name in your auctions?, this is a poor business practice to say the least. Greg went out to Morocco and got NWA 2999 himself, not from Adam Aaronson so get your story straight. You should not comment on things you know nothing about. Greg, does not get anything from the Aaronson's so you may want to retract this statement in your auction and here on the List. Why is it so difficult to admit you are totally wrong in this case and the case of NWA 1839? Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, Are you and your brother blind? here it is spelled out in crayon for you - i have highligted the portion of my auction that you both have claimed dont exist in red - please scroll down all the way and READ the entire description: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5415/adamandgregkp9.jpg Still think I'm the one jumping the gun? I personally am at a loss as to why you would say that this material doesnt look like 2999 unless my photography just plain sucks (i'll admit to this possibility) - every piece i have looks EXACTLY like photos you have posted. Blaine Reed thinks that this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. Adam Aaronson (the original source for ALL of this material AFIK) thinks this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. At least one scientist I have spoken with thinks that this material looks EXACTLY like your material. on the subject of nwa 3133/1839 - you had said that the reason for your belief that the stones were not paired was based upon new isotopse analysis (other than oxygen) do you have any actual data that you can share that will back up your claim? I'd be most interested in it. FWIW claims about pairings on this stone/2999 and on 1839/3133 were not my own - In both cases I have put forth all the avalible information I have on the material as well as citing the source of the claim in question. From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stan, Nowhere in your auction did you say that a provisional number was assigned. It is simple, use your own NWA numbers from now on whether they are provisional or not. It is dangerous to make pairing statements, let the scientists do their job in this regard and make it formal. You made pairing statements in the past that were found to be in error (NWA 1839/3133) and this new item looks nothing like any piece of NWA 2999 I have seen so I can understand Greg's concern. Greg went through the trouble of removing a type sample from each of the 12 stones just to make sure what he is offering is the real deal. I think you owe him an apology for jumping the gun on this one. Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Greg why dont you bother to read the whole gosh darned ebay listing before you accuse me of self pairing and asking me if i'm a scientist - to avoid making yourself look like a fool who is just trying to protect his market share without giving a rat's behind about the collectors. My ebay ad specifically states that NAU has ALREADY determined this material to be an angrite - and that the material is (provisional) NWA 2934. All that Dr. Bunch was waiting on before making this offical is the remainder of the type specimin deposit since Adam Aaronson's sample (the same source for Boswell's material and yours as well AFIK) was bellow the 20g requirement. the remainder of this mass he should have by next week the postal services willing. Now i guess you could argue that Dr. Bunch might not know what he is doing and i shouldnt offer the material till the classification is voted on by the nomcom - but since Dr. Bunch co-authored the 'case for mercury' paper AND took part in the classification of nwa 2999 I personally think his word on the matter is good enough for me. I fully disclosed that the number is provisional and that the assumption of pairing was based upon information from my source. I dont see what kind of (legitimate) complaint you might have. I have maybe another 5g of this material that is 'extra' to my collection from opening up the cut face on the stone i bought and removing material to finialize the type specimin donation. No need to worry about my flooding the market greg - after that 5g you can go back
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Hello Stan, Your eBay ad started on October 9th where you clearly stated ...There is no offical word on pairings yet - this is an assumption on my part..., (you added Aarosnon's number a few days after you started your auction without proper lab confirmation and NWA number). And again Stan, Adam Aaronson did NOT supply me with my NWA 2999 material. Where do you get this misinformation? Ask Adam Aaronson, he and I had a fine conversation earlier this year as to when he got his material, after I had mine already in the lab for quite some time and very well studied by Drs Irving, Kuehner and others before additional material surfaced at NAU. I do not understand you. Just be patient, get the details straight and a license to drive before you go roaring out of the gates. I hear coat-tailing, plagiarism, stealing of ideas, descriptions and all of the like are a form of flattery, please keep from flattering me so much, it is getting very annoying to say the least! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 3:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, Are you and your brother blind? here it is spelled out in crayon for you - i have highligted the portion of my auction that you both have claimed dont exist in red - please scroll down all the way and READ the entire description: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5415/adamandgregkp9.jpg Still think I'm the one jumping the gun? I personally am at a loss as to why you would say that this material doesnt look like 2999 unless my photography just plain sucks (i'll admit to this possibility) - every piece i have looks EXACTLY like photos you have posted. Blaine Reed thinks that this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. Adam Aaronson (the original source for ALL of this material AFIK) thinks this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. At least one scientist I have spoken with thinks that this material looks EXACTLY like your material. on the subject of nwa 3133/1839 - you had said that the reason for your belief that the stones were not paired was based upon new isotopse analysis (other than oxygen) do you have any actual data that you can share that will back up your claim? I'd be most interested in it. FWIW claims about pairings on this stone/2999 and on 1839/3133 were not my own - In both cases I have put forth all the avalible information I have on the material as well as citing the source of the claim in question. From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stan, Nowhere in your auction did you say that a provisional number was assigned. It is simple, use your own NWA numbers from now on whether they are provisional or not. It is dangerous to make pairing statements, let the scientists do their job in this regard and make it formal. You made pairing statements in the past that were found to be in error (NWA 1839/3133) and this new item looks nothing like any piece of NWA 2999 I have seen so I can understand Greg's concern. Greg went through the trouble of removing a type sample from each of the 12 stones just to make sure what he is offering is the real deal. I think you owe him an apology for jumping the gun on this one. Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Greg why dont you bother to read the whole gosh darned ebay listing before you accuse me of self pairing and asking me if i'm a scientist - to avoid making yourself look like a fool who is just trying to protect his market share without giving a rat's behind about the collectors. My ebay ad specifically states that NAU has ALREADY determined this material to be an angrite - and that the material is (provisional) NWA 2934. All that Dr. Bunch was waiting on before making this offical is the remainder of the type specimin deposit since Adam Aaronson's sample (the same source for Boswell's material and yours as well AFIK) was bellow the 20g requirement. the remainder of this mass he should have by next week the postal services willing. Now i guess you could argue that Dr. Bunch might not know what he is doing and i shouldnt offer the material till the classification is voted on by the nomcom - but since Dr. Bunch co-authored the 'case for mercury' paper AND took part in the classification of nwa 2999 I personally think his word on the matter is good enough for me. I fully disclosed that the number is provisional and that the assumption of pairing was based upon information from my source. I dont see what kind of (legitimate) complaint you might have. I have maybe
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Adam, I included the angrite auction because i had some other ebay stuff going up and the material was ready AND as i specifically said in my auction i should have the provisonal number in a few days - and i did. if you dont like that way of doing listing ebay auctions thats fine but it gives you and your brother no grounds of accusing me of self pairing and playing scientist. i do not see how it can be construed as misleading in the slightest - i made full disclosure on the status of my stone to the best of my ability. Why did I include your and Boswell's name? because i belive the material to be paired based upon what my sources have told me. instead of telling the collecting public that this is a new angrite with a TKW of only 270g i made every effort to provide as much information as i can about the material - even though the fact that the total cumulative known weight and material being avalible from other sources might make my material less valuble. I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm shown to be wrong - unlike you. I remeber when you called me a liar and said you would sue me for posting a pic I took of NWA 904 - saying that the material I had obviously WASNT 904 - I never did get an appology from you even after i posted a photo of the hupe specimin ID card and links to the ebay auction where i bought it directly from you. Now if I'm wrong about Aaronson being the source for your material that is fine and I'll admit it. He WAS the source for Boswell's material and that is paired with 2999 per the metbul webpage. If you still think NAU was wrong to pair 1839 and 3133 i'd love to see the data that supports this position. I'm a type collector so it would only mean i have two unique parent bodies instead of one. please provide the data you mentioned at your earliest convinience. Stan, The complaints have been pouring in about your supposed pairing for days, every since your action started. I see you added a provisional number at the very bottom of your auction after the damage was already done. Why not wait for a formal report in order to release this item if it is due out shortly? This confuses collectors and is misleading. Why is that you mention our last name in your auctions?, this is a poor business practice to say the least. Greg went out to Morocco and got NWA 2999 himself, not from Adam Aaronson so get your story straight. You should not comment on things you know nothing about. Greg, does not get anything from the Aaronson's so you may want to retract this statement in your auction and here on the List. Why is it so difficult to admit you are totally wrong in this case and the case of NWA 1839? Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, Are you and your brother blind? here it is spelled out in crayon for you - i have highligted the portion of my auction that you both have claimed dont exist in red - please scroll down all the way and READ the entire description: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5415/adamandgregkp9.jpg Still think I'm the one jumping the gun? I personally am at a loss as to why you would say that this material doesnt look like 2999 unless my photography just plain sucks (i'll admit to this possibility) - every piece i have looks EXACTLY like photos you have posted. Blaine Reed thinks that this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. Adam Aaronson (the original source for ALL of this material AFIK) thinks this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. At least one scientist I have spoken with thinks that this material looks EXACTLY like your material. on the subject of nwa 3133/1839 - you had said that the reason for your belief that the stones were not paired was based upon new isotopse analysis (other than oxygen) do you have any actual data that you can share that will back up your claim? I'd be most interested in it. FWIW claims about pairings on this stone/2999 and on 1839/3133 were not my own - In both cases I have put forth all the avalible information I have on the material as well as citing the source of the claim in question. From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stan, Nowhere in your auction did you say that a provisional number was assigned. It is simple, use your own NWA numbers from now on whether they are provisional or not. It is dangerous to make pairing statements, let the scientists do their job in this regard and make it formal. You made pairing statements in the past that were found to be in error (NWA 1839/3133) and this new item looks nothing like any piece of NWA 2999 I have seen so I can understand Greg's concern. Greg went through the trouble of removing a type sample from each of the 12 stones just to make sure what he is offering is the real deal. I think you owe him an apology
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, Just admit you are telling fibs. You say that Aaronson and others say the stones look the same. That's funny, Aaronson and Boswell have never seen NWA 2999! You know what happened when Farrell changed the NWA 2999 abstract to match his sample. It is simple, get your facts straight! Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, I included the angrite auction because i had some other ebay stuff going up and the material was ready AND as i specifically said in my auction i should have the provisonal number in a few days - and i did. if you dont like that way of doing listing ebay auctions thats fine but it gives you and your brother no grounds of accusing me of self pairing and playing scientist. i do not see how it can be construed as misleading in the slightest - i made full disclosure on the status of my stone to the best of my ability. Why did I include your and Boswell's name? because i belive the material to be paired based upon what my sources have told me. instead of telling the collecting public that this is a new angrite with a TKW of only 270g i made every effort to provide as much information as i can about the material - even though the fact that the total cumulative known weight and material being avalible from other sources might make my material less valuble. I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm shown to be wrong - unlike you. I remeber when you called me a liar and said you would sue me for posting a pic I took of NWA 904 - saying that the material I had obviously WASNT 904 - I never did get an appology from you even after i posted a photo of the hupe specimin ID card and links to the ebay auction where i bought it directly from you. Now if I'm wrong about Aaronson being the source for your material that is fine and I'll admit it. He WAS the source for Boswell's material and that is paired with 2999 per the metbul webpage. If you still think NAU was wrong to pair 1839 and 3133 i'd love to see the data that supports this position. I'm a type collector so it would only mean i have two unique parent bodies instead of one. please provide the data you mentioned at your earliest convinience. Stan, The complaints have been pouring in about your supposed pairing for days, every since your action started. I see you added a provisional number at the very bottom of your auction after the damage was already done. Why not wait for a formal report in order to release this item if it is due out shortly? This confuses collectors and is misleading. Why is that you mention our last name in your auctions?, this is a poor business practice to say the least. Greg went out to Morocco and got NWA 2999 himself, not from Adam Aaronson so get your story straight. You should not comment on things you know nothing about. Greg, does not get anything from the Aaronson's so you may want to retract this statement in your auction and here on the List. Why is it so difficult to admit you are totally wrong in this case and the case of NWA 1839? Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, Are you and your brother blind? here it is spelled out in crayon for you - i have highligted the portion of my auction that you both have claimed dont exist in red - please scroll down all the way and READ the entire description: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5415/adamandgregkp9.jpg Still think I'm the one jumping the gun? I personally am at a loss as to why you would say that this material doesnt look like 2999 unless my photography just plain sucks (i'll admit to this possibility) - every piece i have looks EXACTLY like photos you have posted. Blaine Reed thinks that this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. Adam Aaronson (the original source for ALL of this material AFIK) thinks this stone looks EXACTLY like your material. At least one scientist I have spoken with thinks that this material looks EXACTLY like your material. on the subject of nwa 3133/1839 - you had said that the reason for your belief that the stones were not paired was based upon new isotopse analysis (other than oxygen) do you have any actual data that you can share that will back up your claim? I'd be most interested in it. FWIW claims about pairings on this stone/2999 and on 1839/3133 were not my own - In both cases I have put forth all the avalible information I have on the material as well as citing the source of the claim in question. From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stan, Nowhere in your auction did you say that a provisional number was assigned. It is simple, use your own NWA numbers from
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Your eBay ad started on October 9th where you clearly stated ...There is no offical word on pairings yet - this is an assumption on my part..., (you added Aarosnon's number a few days after you started your auction without proper lab confirmation and NWA number). WRONG - I DID have proper lab confirmation as to the nature of the stone before starting the auction - I simply ran out of time on the phone to ask Dr. Bunch for the provisional number because he had to run out to take his kids somewhere if it's all that important to you. My ad was crystal clear without one iota of misleading information - aside from Adam being the source for your material - although that obviously does not effect the nature of what I am offering. I will immediatly post a correction to my auction. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, Just admit you are telling fibs. You say that Aaronson and others say the stones look the same. That's funny, Aaronson and Boswell have never seen NWA 2999! You know what happened when Farrell changed the NWA 2999 abstract to match his sample. It is simple, get your facts straight! Adam Adam, If you say Greg did not get nwa 2999 from Adam Aaronson I will take your word and admit to being mistaken specifically regarding the origin of nwa 2999. Aaronson HAS seen nwa 3164 - a pairing to nwa 2999 per the metbull website - and would be happy to tell you it's the same stuff as my provisional nwa 2934. I dont know what Boswell has to say about this material as i dont know the guy, and have never made any claims to his opinion on the matter. are all clear now? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, I would be happy to let this debate end here and now. All I ask is not to mention my last name out of context in a public auction, we have discussed this before. You have the right to run your auctions any way you want but if I see unofficial pairing statements to material I am involved with, I will take exception to it, sometimes publicly since our investment in time and energy is great and I do not believe in free rides. Adam . - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Stan, Just admit you are telling fibs. You say that Aaronson and others say the stones look the same. That's funny, Aaronson and Boswell have never seen NWA 2999! You know what happened when Farrell changed the NWA 2999 abstract to match his sample. It is simple, get your facts straight! Adam Adam, If you say Greg did not get nwa 2999 from Adam Aaronson I will take your word and admit to being mistaken specifically regarding the origin of nwa 2999. Aaronson HAS seen nwa 3164 - a pairing to nwa 2999 per the metbull website - and would be happy to tell you it's the same stuff as my provisional nwa 2934. I dont know what Boswell has to say about this material as i dont know the guy, and have never made any claims to his opinion on the matter. are all clear now? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Adam, I will avoid the use of your name in my auctions from here on out unless I have some specific reason to do so (cant think of one off the top of my head but I'll just leave the possibility open) - but i will NOT refrain from posting information about possible pairings. either official or otherwise - provided they are properly qualified to prevent any possible misunderstanding. I belive not providing this sort of information to the collecting public does a disservice to the entire meteorite collecting community. In the context of this conversation if I am wrong about the pairing then the pieces I am offering are from a unique low TKW non vessicular angrite - and as such would be much more valuble (as i only have maybe 6g total of extra material to offer). conversely if the suspect pairing is correct and i DIDNT disclose it a collector would quite possibly be disapointed to know that the material has an effective TKW in the KG range (an order of magnitude more than the mass of my piece) and is avalible from multiple sources other than me. Stan, I would be happy to let this debate end here and now. All I ask is not to mention my last name out of context in a public auction, we have discussed this before. You have the right to run your auctions any way you want but if I see unofficial pairing statements to material I am involved with, I will take exception to it, sometimes publicly since our investment in time and energy is great and I do not believe in free rides. Adam . - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Stan, Just admit you are telling fibs. You say that Aaronson and others say the stones look the same. That's funny, Aaronson and Boswell have never seen NWA 2999! You know what happened when Farrell changed the NWA 2999 abstract to match his sample. It is simple, get your facts straight! Adam Adam, If you say Greg did not get nwa 2999 from Adam Aaronson I will take your word and admit to being mistaken specifically regarding the origin of nwa 2999. Aaronson HAS seen nwa 3164 - a pairing to nwa 2999 per the metbull website - and would be happy to tell you it's the same stuff as my provisional nwa 2934. I dont know what Boswell has to say about this material as i dont know the guy, and have never made any claims to his opinion on the matter. are all clear now? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, Self-proclaimed pairings are considered bad business. I don't understand why you cannot wait a week or two to get an official lab report with official pairing statements since NAU provides this data. It is simple to mention that you strongly suspect other pairings but using official numbers to enhance the value of an unofficial stone is wrong. By the way, if I was to use your standards of pairing, there is at least 10 more kilograms paired to your supposedly unpaired Acapulcoite including NWA 2989 as they look identical to me, you can't have it both ways! Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, I will avoid the use of your name in my auctions from here on out unless I have some specific reason to do so (cant think of one off the top of my head but I'll just leave the possibility open) - but i will NOT refrain from posting information about possible pairings. either official or otherwise - provided they are properly qualified to prevent any possible misunderstanding. I belive not providing this sort of information to the collecting public does a disservice to the entire meteorite collecting community. In the context of this conversation if I am wrong about the pairing then the pieces I am offering are from a unique low TKW non vessicular angrite - and as such would be much more valuble (as i only have maybe 6g total of extra material to offer). conversely if the suspect pairing is correct and i DIDNT disclose it a collector would quite possibly be disapointed to know that the material has an effective TKW in the KG range (an order of magnitude more than the mass of my piece) and is avalible from multiple sources other than me. Stan, I would be happy to let this debate end here and now. All I ask is not to mention my last name out of context in a public auction, we have discussed this before. You have the right to run your auctions any way you want but if I see unofficial pairing statements to material I am involved with, I will take exception to it, sometimes publicly since our investment in time and energy is great and I do not believe in free rides. Adam . - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Stan, Just admit you are telling fibs. You say that Aaronson and others say the stones look the same. That's funny, Aaronson and Boswell have never seen NWA 2999! You know what happened when Farrell changed the NWA 2999 abstract to match his sample. It is simple, get your facts straight! Adam Adam, If you say Greg did not get nwa 2999 from Adam Aaronson I will take your word and admit to being mistaken specifically regarding the origin of nwa 2999. Aaronson HAS seen nwa 3164 - a pairing to nwa 2999 per the metbull website - and would be happy to tell you it's the same stuff as my provisional nwa 2934. I dont know what Boswell has to say about this material as i dont know the guy, and have never made any claims to his opinion on the matter. are all clear now? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Adam, I'm not using official numbers to enhance the value of my stone - if i wanted to do that I would play it off as unique. If i mentioned i suspect pairings then OBVIOUSLY i would be talking about nwa 2999 and 3164 because it's not like there are too many non vessicualted nwa angrites out there. Instead of beating around the bush i just said what I belive to be true and gave the reason for such belief. As far as waiting for official pairings - there area wide array of tests that need to be done before a pairing would be considered 'official' - well above and beyond what is normally done for the purposes of classification. Arent all of those DHO lunars still waiting for 'offical' pairings? while the nwa 2775 acapolcoite might LOOK like the other ACAP floating around out there if you look at the write up you will see substantial differences in minerology and NAU has not informed me of any suspect pairing on that one. so with neither my standards nor yours - there doesnt seem to be any pairing on that one. One last thing - for the nth time (now that we are done arguing i hope you will honor my request)please post any relivant data you might have to the nwa 3133/1839 issue. I an genuinely most interested to see it. Stan, Self-proclaimed pairings are considered bad business. I don't understand why you cannot wait a week or two to get an official lab report with official pairing statements since NAU provides this data. It is simple to mention that you strongly suspect other pairings but using official numbers to enhance the value of an unofficial stone is wrong. By the way, if I was to use your standards of pairing, there is at least 10 more kilograms paired to your supposedly unpaired Acapulcoite including NWA 2989 as they look identical to me, you can't have it both ways! Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, I will avoid the use of your name in my auctions from here on out unless I have some specific reason to do so (cant think of one off the top of my head but I'll just leave the possibility open) - but i will NOT refrain from posting information about possible pairings. either official or otherwise - provided they are properly qualified to prevent any possible misunderstanding. I belive not providing this sort of information to the collecting public does a disservice to the entire meteorite collecting community. In the context of this conversation if I am wrong about the pairing then the pieces I am offering are from a unique low TKW non vessicular angrite - and as such would be much more valuble (as i only have maybe 6g total of extra material to offer). conversely if the suspect pairing is correct and i DIDNT disclose it a collector would quite possibly be disapointed to know that the material has an effective TKW in the KG range (an order of magnitude more than the mass of my piece) and is avalible from multiple sources other than me. Stan, I would be happy to let this debate end here and now. All I ask is not to mention my last name out of context in a public auction, we have discussed this before. You have the right to run your auctions any way you want but if I see unofficial pairing statements to material I am involved with, I will take exception to it, sometimes publicly since our investment in time and energy is great and I do not believe in free rides. Adam . - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Stan, Just admit you are telling fibs. You say that Aaronson and others say the stones look the same. That's funny, Aaronson and Boswell have never seen NWA 2999! You know what happened when Farrell changed the NWA 2999 abstract to match his sample. It is simple, get your facts straight! Adam Adam, If you say Greg did not get nwa 2999 from Adam Aaronson I will take your word and admit to being mistaken specifically regarding the origin of nwa 2999. Aaronson HAS seen nwa 3164 - a pairing to nwa 2999 per the metbull website - and would be happy to tell you it's the same stuff as my provisional nwa 2934. I dont know what Boswell has to say about this material as i dont know the guy, and have never made any claims to his opinion on the matter. are all clear now? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, It is obvious you want it both ways. You base your Brachinite pairing visually yet your Acap looks identical to 12 kilograms of material the Aaronson's were selling over the last year. You are in touch with Dr. Bunch, ask him about NWA 1839/3133 as this has already been addressed on the List in some detail and as usual you came out on the short side of the stick. Ask Dr. Bunch if your new Acap is paired to all of the other 12 kilograms unless you are using another Aaronson number in which case he will not report back to you. Growing tired of this, some will never get it, Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 2:16 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, I'm not using official numbers to enhance the value of my stone - if i wanted to do that I would play it off as unique. If i mentioned i suspect pairings then OBVIOUSLY i would be talking about nwa 2999 and 3164 because it's not like there are too many non vessicualted nwa angrites out there. Instead of beating around the bush i just said what I belive to be true and gave the reason for such belief. As far as waiting for official pairings - there area wide array of tests that need to be done before a pairing would be considered 'official' - well above and beyond what is normally done for the purposes of classification. Arent all of those DHO lunars still waiting for 'offical' pairings? while the nwa 2775 acapolcoite might LOOK like the other ACAP floating around out there if you look at the write up you will see substantial differences in minerology and NAU has not informed me of any suspect pairing on that one. so with neither my standards nor yours - there doesnt seem to be any pairing on that one. One last thing - for the nth time (now that we are done arguing i hope you will honor my request)please post any relivant data you might have to the nwa 3133/1839 issue. I an genuinely most interested to see it. Stan, Self-proclaimed pairings are considered bad business. I don't understand why you cannot wait a week or two to get an official lab report with official pairing statements since NAU provides this data. It is simple to mention that you strongly suspect other pairings but using official numbers to enhance the value of an unofficial stone is wrong. By the way, if I was to use your standards of pairing, there is at least 10 more kilograms paired to your supposedly unpaired Acapulcoite including NWA 2989 as they look identical to me, you can't have it both ways! Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam, I will avoid the use of your name in my auctions from here on out unless I have some specific reason to do so (cant think of one off the top of my head but I'll just leave the possibility open) - but i will NOT refrain from posting information about possible pairings. either official or otherwise - provided they are properly qualified to prevent any possible misunderstanding. I belive not providing this sort of information to the collecting public does a disservice to the entire meteorite collecting community. In the context of this conversation if I am wrong about the pairing then the pieces I am offering are from a unique low TKW non vessicular angrite - and as such would be much more valuble (as i only have maybe 6g total of extra material to offer). conversely if the suspect pairing is correct and i DIDNT disclose it a collector would quite possibly be disapointed to know that the material has an effective TKW in the KG range (an order of magnitude more than the mass of my piece) and is avalible from multiple sources other than me. Stan, I would be happy to let this debate end here and now. All I ask is not to mention my last name out of context in a public auction, we have discussed this before. You have the right to run your auctions any way you want but if I see unofficial pairing statements to material I am involved with, I will take exception to it, sometimes publicly since our investment in time and energy is great and I do not believe in free rides. Adam . - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Stan, Just admit you are telling fibs. You say that Aaronson and others say the stones look the same. That's funny, Aaronson and Boswell have never seen NWA 2999! You know what happened when Farrell changed the NWA 2999 abstract to match his sample. It is simple, get your facts straight! Adam Adam, If you say Greg did not get nwa 2999
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
It is obvious you want it both ways. You base your Brachinite Brachnite? i thought we were talking about angrites. In any event i am not basing the potential pairing on anything i see - as i said i am just relaying information provided to me by my sources. researchers and moroccains alike pairing visually yet your Acap looks identical to 12 kilograms of material the Aaronson's were selling over the last year. You are in touch with Dr. Bunch, ask him about NWA 1839/3133 as this has already been addressed on the List in some detail and as usual you came out on the short side of the stick. I did? from what i recall you claimed there was new data that argued against the 1839/3133 pairing. I also recall Jeff Grossman posting to the list saying something to the effect that based on the data avalible currently a claim of pairing wasnt unreasonable. you claim there is new data that argues against this - i have asked you to provide the data 4 times now in the last few hours and yet you dont offer anything to support your claim other than tales of this mysteryous 'new data'. I fail to see how i'm the one comming up short either then or now on this issue. I'm not the one going on about 'new data' that i cant produce. Ask Dr. Bunch if your new Acap is paired to all of the other 12 kilograms unless you are using another Aaronson number in which case he will not report back to you. I'll be sure to ask next time I speak with Dr. Bunch. in the mean time if you look at http://www4.nau.edu/meteorite/Meteorite/PrimitiveAchondrite.html you will see the minerology of the paired stones all are virtually identical, whereas the data for nwa 2775 is nowhere near close. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, I addressed you and the List directly about the data on NWA 1836/3133 and you were wrong. If you are too lazy to ask Dr. Bunch yourself, look in the archives as this two year argument is over. NAU and Carnegie's data do not support a pairing, look it up. I think you are borrowing Aaronson's numbers in regards to the these new listings, I will ask Dr. Bunch tomorrow. There is no need to argue with a source who has gotten wrong so many times. Good Night, Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 2:54 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days It is obvious you want it both ways. You base your Brachinite Brachnite? i thought we were talking about angrites. In any event i am not basing the potential pairing on anything i see - as i said i am just relaying information provided to me by my sources. researchers and moroccains alike pairing visually yet your Acap looks identical to 12 kilograms of material the Aaronson's were selling over the last year. You are in touch with Dr. Bunch, ask him about NWA 1839/3133 as this has already been addressed on the List in some detail and as usual you came out on the short side of the stick. I did? from what i recall you claimed there was new data that argued against the 1839/3133 pairing. I also recall Jeff Grossman posting to the list saying something to the effect that based on the data avalible currently a claim of pairing wasnt unreasonable. you claim there is new data that argues against this - i have asked you to provide the data 4 times now in the last few hours and yet you dont offer anything to support your claim other than tales of this mysteryous 'new data'. I fail to see how i'm the one comming up short either then or now on this issue. I'm not the one going on about 'new data' that i cant produce. Ask Dr. Bunch if your new Acap is paired to all of the other 12 kilograms unless you are using another Aaronson number in which case he will not report back to you. I'll be sure to ask next time I speak with Dr. Bunch. in the mean time if you look at http://www4.nau.edu/meteorite/Meteorite/PrimitiveAchondrite.html you will see the minerology of the paired stones all are virtually identical, whereas the data for nwa 2775 is nowhere near close. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Hello Everyone, Does anyone, other than the parties directly involved actually read and careabout these periodic postings to the list. If so, please email me in private. I do not forward private email. I will report aggregated data to the list. Not meaning to slight the parties involved, I would just like to get a sense of how important these exchanges are to list members. -Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, I addressed you and the List directly about the data on NWA 1836/3133 and you were wrong. Adam, you spoke of data that was new and never provided any actual DATA only your summary of it. If you are too lazy to ask Dr. Bunch yourself, look in the archives as this two year argument is over. NAU and Carnegie's data do not support a pairing, look it up. I have. I cant find anything published that supports your claims. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5218.pdf says that both 1839 and 3133 are from the CV parent body - CONTRARY to what you claimed. if the data exists why not just simply show me where and I'll admit that 1839 and 3133 arent paired? seems like an awfully simple way to resolve a LONG argument to me... I think you are borrowing Aaronson's numbers in regards to the these new listings, I will ask Dr. Bunch tomorrow. 'borrowing' Aaronson's number? as i have specifically said Aaronson is my source for this material. the number is not 'his' it bellongs to the stone that I bought from him - I belive Jeff Grossman saw fit to post to the list to publically correct you on this issue before. People do NOT own NWA numbers - they are used to describe material. There is no need to argue with a source who has gotten wrong so many times. LOL all you have shown me to be wrong on is that Aaronson wasnt the source of nwa 2999 - big deal. You are acting the part of the typical internet troll. you seem to think whoever argues louder and longer 'wins'. I have asked you repeatedly to show me support of your claims and you have avoided my request 5 times now. Is there some reason why you cant back up your position with facts? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Let it go, Stan, you are completely wrong! - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Stan, I addressed you and the List directly about the data on NWA 1836/3133 and you were wrong. Adam, you spoke of data that was new and never provided any actual DATA only your summary of it. If you are too lazy to ask Dr. Bunch yourself, look in the archives as this two year argument is over. NAU and Carnegie's data do not support a pairing, look it up. I have. I cant find anything published that supports your claims. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5218.pdf says that both 1839 and 3133 are from the CV parent body - CONTRARY to what you claimed. if the data exists why not just simply show me where and I'll admit that 1839 and 3133 arent paired? seems like an awfully simple way to resolve a LONG argument to me... I think you are borrowing Aaronson's numbers in regards to the these new listings, I will ask Dr. Bunch tomorrow. 'borrowing' Aaronson's number? as i have specifically said Aaronson is my source for this material. the number is not 'his' it bellongs to the stone that I bought from him - I belive Jeff Grossman saw fit to post to the list to publically correct you on this issue before. People do NOT own NWA numbers - they are used to describe material. There is no need to argue with a source who has gotten wrong so many times. LOL all you have shown me to be wrong on is that Aaronson wasnt the source of nwa 2999 - big deal. You are acting the part of the typical internet troll. you seem to think whoever argues louder and longer 'wins'. I have asked you repeatedly to show me support of your claims and you have avoided my request 5 times now. Is there some reason why you cant back up your position with facts? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Let it go, Stan, you are completely wrong! First of all I wouldnt be wrong - NAU would be wrong since i was just repeating what they said on the 1839/3133 pairing issue - and you know that. Secondly - why not just show me - and all of the rest of the collecting community WHY I'm wrong? What do you have to hide? Data speaks louder than (your) words. I'm not the only one who owns 1839 or 3133 (paired material to 3133 actually) so I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see this mysterious data of yours... are you 'fibbing' about the existance of this data Adam? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Stan, Let it go, you are absolutely wrong, again. Like I told David Weir, contact Dr. Bunch yourself about NWA 3133 and report back to the List your findings. Read the archives, it is all in there. The subject at hand is your unsavory business practices not the NWA 1839/3133 pairing issue which you argued about for two years and lost. Not only did you argue about it, you sold NWA 1839(a number you borrowed from Nelson Oaks) as being paired when it was later found not to be. You mention our last name and source in an auction and in a way that was proven to be untrue. You quote find sources you know nothing about. You are crazy to trust Moroccan opinions on pairings! Over a dozen pairings to NWA 482 have bee offered by Moroccans yet the closest match was a hunk of stained marble. You use second hand data out of context to try and change the subject at hand, a tactic criminals use in court to no avail. You have no patience whatsoever and cannot even wait a few days for a provisional number and firm data before making pairing assumptions and listing an item for sale. You quote official numbers when discussing yet to be classified material which may or may not be proven a pairing. Get things classified, stop borrowing numbers/data and above all, wait for lab results if you do not want to stick a stick into a beehive, Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Let it go, Stan, you are completely wrong! First of all I wouldnt be wrong - NAU would be wrong since i was just repeating what they said on the 1839/3133 pairing issue - and you know that. Secondly - why not just show me - and all of the rest of the collecting community WHY I'm wrong? What do you have to hide? Data speaks louder than (your) words. I'm not the only one who owns 1839 or 3133 (paired material to 3133 actually) so I'm sure there are others who would be interested to see this mysterious data of yours... are you 'fibbing' about the existance of this data Adam? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Let it go, you are absolutely wrong, again. Like I told David Weir, contact Dr. Bunch yourself about NWA 3133 and report back to the List your findings. Read the archives, it is all in there. Why should i take up Dr. Bunch's precious time? you said data exists and all i need to do is go out and find it. There are no refrences in NASA ADS to nwa 1839 and google only returns results that are CONTRARY to your claims. if you have the data please provide it. The subject at hand is your unsavory business practices not the NWA 1839/3133 pairing issue which you argued about for two years and lost. I have yet to see the data. please show it to all of us. Not only did you argue about it, you sold NWA 1839(a number you borrowed from Nelson Oaks) as being paired when it was later found not to be. 1. I didnt borrow a number form nelson - he provided me with some 1839 in addition to a stone of some half kg that is paired to 3133. sorry but you are wRONG again (notice a trend here?) 2. IF it turns out to be that 1839 and 3133 are not paired such standing was only determined AFTER i sold the material. I am not a fortune teller and do not own a crystal ball. At the time of my auctions all avalible information pointed to NWA 1839 and 3133 being paired. Check the archives The chain of the NomCom even though the data supported the argument that the material may be paired, and posted this opinion to the list. You mention our last name and source in an auction and in a way that was proven to be untrue. And i have corrected my auction to reflect your position, than you for clarifyting the source of your material. See i have NO problem with admiting the truth when presented with it. use second hand data out of context to try and change the subject at hand, a tactic criminals use in court to no avail. LOL! thats rich! i have asked you what - 8 times now to provide the data you claim exists on the 1839/3133 issue that you love to bring up - and all you have done is talk about some alleged 482 pairings! you are so full of it it's unbelivable. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Hi Dave and Greg, Informed decisions cannot be made in the vacuum of a lack of knowledge. I agree with you. I just question the reliability and validity of the knowledge. When these type posts are made, there is a lot of heated, emotional and sometimes inflammatory discourse. People talk a lot but rarely say anything. I am not meaning to defame or otherwise antagonize anyone, least all the parties involved but to use another analogy, there is a lot of smoke but no fire and smoke is often used as smokescreen. In these posts I see a lot of name-dropping, accusations of wrongdoing and dishonesty but little data. People quote rules for others to follow then break them themselves. If someone says yyy is paired to zzz then show the data. If someone says some scientist said this or that then give us a direct, verifiable quote. If someone says something has been published then give us the URL or something. If a certain TKW is stated tell us why this is so. Etc... I too, like to make informed decisions but the quality of my decisions is only as good as the data that goes into my decision and my point with all this is that I need good, hard data. I get very little usable information from these type posts, surely not enough to judge the reputation of a dealer. Show me, and others, the data. -Walter - Original Message - From: Dave Carothers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Walter Branch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Good morning, Walter, I hope this finds you well. As Greg, Adam, and Stan were the originators of his thread, I thought it only right that I cc them in my response to you. While I'm sure that most people would rather not have to read arguements and verbal fist-fights on the list, most of these type of arguements (like the one at present between Stan and the Hupes) are IMHO beneficial and useful to the community as a whole. With collectors paying $8, $50, $500, or $1,000 per gram for meteorites, we need to make sure we are dealing with reputable sellers and we need to ensure that the descriptions used in the ads are fair and accurate representations of the meteorites being sold. The only policing mechanism we have is ourselves and the only real tools we have to combat phoney or misrepresentative meteorite sales is education and public disclosure. Public disclosure serves two functions --- it is the means of providing education to the community and it is also the stick that keeps everything above board and, hopefully, honest. I'll use my own public discourse with Steve (Chicago) Arnold in July/August of this year to make my point. In the past, when informing Steve PRIVATELY of his misrepresentations in his sales of meteorites, he would respond with Mind your own business and ignore the situation. It was only through the sting of public disclosure that he would actually make changes to his misleading sales ads. Of course, he would play up to the readers as being put upon and unjustly persecuted, but the objective had been achieved. 1) He made the change to the misleading statements in his ads and 2) His propensity for making misleading statements in his ads was now made public so the community could then make an informed decision if they wanted to deal with him. At least potential buyers were put on notice to research the items Steve (Chicago) Arnold was selleing to ensure they were getting what they paid for. Informed decisions cannot be made in the vacuum of a lack of knowledge. Once again, it is my opinion that the free-flow of information, even in arguementative forms, is a useful endeavor. Everyone in our community should know of these happenings and hear from both sides of the arguement. They can then make up their own minds as to who is telling the truth and who to believe or not. For what it is worth... my $0.02. Dave - Original Message - From: Walter Branch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Hello Everyone, Does anyone, other than the parties directly involved actually read and careabout these periodic postings to the list. If so, please email me in private. I do not forward private email. I will report aggregated data to the list. Not meaning to slight the parties involved, I would just like to get a sense of how important these exchanges are to list members. -Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Adam Hupe wrote: Stan, Let it go, you are absolutely wrong, again. Like I told David Weir, contact Dr. Bunch yourself about NWA 3133 and report back to the List your findings. Read the archives, it is all in there. Hello Adam, Thanks for inviting me into your debate. All I have to say is that I am 100% convinced that 3133 IS paired to 1839. This data IS NOT contained in the List archives, but I have a copy of it. Dr. Bunch has already been contacted and supplied this new data. Although he claims only to be a messenger, he has graciously taken it upon himself to arrange for new isotopic tests to be performed in light of this new irrefutable data (my words not his). If you are patient you will eventually know that these stones are paired. I will not supply you with my forensic data at least until you supply the List with yours, that which supports the hypothesis against such a pairing. Have a great day, I need to cook dinner. David meteoritestudies.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
The latest is that they are not paired by three independent laboratories, talk to Dr. Irving about this if you do not believe me. David, you are the one that reported Dr. Bunch's statement that they were NOT paired to the List. Adam - Original Message - From: David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Adam Hupe wrote: Stan, Let it go, you are absolutely wrong, again. Like I told David Weir, contact Dr. Bunch yourself about NWA 3133 and report back to the List your findings. Read the archives, it is all in there. Hello Adam, Thanks for inviting me into your debate. All I have to say is that I am 100% convinced that 3133 IS paired to 1839. This data IS NOT contained in the List archives, but I have a copy of it. Dr. Bunch has already been contacted and supplied this new data. Although he claims only to be a messenger, he has graciously taken it upon himself to arrange for new isotopic tests to be performed in light of this new irrefutable data (my words not his). If you are patient you will eventually know that these stones are paired. I will not supply you with my forensic data at least until you supply the List with yours, that which supports the hypothesis against such a pairing. Have a great day, I need to cook dinner. David meteoritestudies.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
- Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2005/pdf/5218.pdf says that both 1839 and 3133 are from the CV parent body Hi, Only a complete fool would poke his nose into this largely private mess, and here I am. There are lots of List subscribers who never post and who only subscribed to learn something about meteorites, not human nature. A distinction needs to be made between meteorites from the same parent body and meteorites that are paired. A pairing means that two meteorites or separated clusters of meteorites are from the same fall: Abstract: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000MPS...35..393B and the full article by Benoit, Sears, Akridge, Bland, Berry, and Pillinger, can be found at: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?2000M%26PS...35..393Bamp;data_type=PDF_HIGHamp;type=PRINTERamp;filetype=.pdf Here's the gist of it: Pairing is the procedure of identifying fragments of a single meteorite fall, separated during atmospheric passage or during terrestrial history, by establishing the similarity of two or more meteorite fragments... Criteria for pairing can be divided into (1) parent body history indicators, (2) meteoroid space history indicators, and (3) terrestrial history indicators... Many literature pairings, especially those involving common meteorite types, bear large uncertainties due to lack of data. They nicely pinpoint the problems. Two different meteorites, very, very much alike, could be from two different meteoroid bodies that were chipped off a parent body at different times. Or, they could be from one meteoroid body that suffered a subsequent impact that fragmented it, and each chunk arrived at the Earth at different times. Or, they could be from one meteoroid body that fragmented early in the rough entry to the Earth's atmosphere and produced a divergent fall, with two strewn fields. Or, the meteorites could have made one unified strewnfield only to have an Earthly event, like a flood, transport part of it to somewhere else. They call the problem non-trivial which is restrained scientific talk for Some of these pairings stink. They come at the problem from every side, and it's a thick juicy paper, which also includes an appendix of 390 pairings, including a pairing score indicating its likelihood to be true. Anybody, in or out of this quarrel, interested in pairing as a general problem ought to read it. Frankly, I don't think buyers are anywhere as excited about pairings as dealers seem to be. Every chunk of HED is sold as coming from Vesta! In the real world, however, most of the HED on Earth came from the Vestoids, a collection of battered asteroids excavated from Vesta (probably from that big southpole crater almost as big as Vesta itself) that trail away from Vesta toward a resonance where the jump to Earth is easy. They didn't come from Vesta; they took the big bus most of the way and jumped off at our stop. Yet, on the other hand, it's true they came from Vesta. Coming from the same parent body doesn't mean that two fragments are the same type unless the parent body is a monotypical body -- some is and some ain't. You can have multiple types coming from the same body. There can be multiple identical parent bodies if an original single-type parent body was subdivided by a big impact, like many members of one asteroidal family. And most parent bodies are hypothetical entities that cannot be clearly or certainly indentified with a real body. (That will happen in about two centuries, when we have gone there often enough.) The terms same parent body, and same type, and pairing all have quite different meanings, and each has its own degree of uncertainty. I have seen the term launch pairing used to mean fragments derived directly from a single impact on one source material. All of these terms need refining, and that's one small step in that direction. Now I'm going to belly up to the bar and watch the rest of this barfight from there (I hope). Go to it, boys! Sterling K. Webb - __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
The terms same parent body, and same type, and pairing all have quite different meanings, and each has its own degree of uncertainty. Sterling K. Webb - just for the record to avoid any possible confusion I am not claiming that nwa 3133 and 1839 are paired because of the oxygen isotopse data. Before Adam and my argument ont he list some time ago the NAU web site listed nwa 1839 and 3133 as paired stones. Adam has said something about the isotopse data for one of the stones suggests a diffrent parent body so the stones CANT be paired. It is not my argument that stones comming fromt he same parent body are paired - rather that the all of the oxygen isotopse data I have seen thus far does NOT argue against a pairing. Your post was spot on otherwise - i just wanted to make sure there was no misunderstanding with anything I said. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Any time a seller clarifies or corrects a sales description or ad, we the buyers are the beneficiaries of the additional/clarifying information and we can thus make a better informed decision to buy or not buy the material in question. dont forget that i also added half a dozen new photographs in better lighting conditions that show off the apearance of the specimin better ;) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Yes, and I'm sure that buyers and potential buyeers appreciate that. Dave - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Any time a seller clarifies or corrects a sales description or ad, we the buyers are the beneficiaries of the additional/clarifying information and we can thus make a better informed decision to buy or not buy the material in question. dont forget that i also added half a dozen new photographs in better lighting conditions that show off the apearance of the specimin better ;) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
hello all i have a handfull of ebay auctions running right now that end in about 2 days. closing starting 19:00 PDT on monday the 16th. included in this grouping are some more great seymchans, a micro of nwa 2737 the chassignite, a nice shock veined shergotitte endcut, a new low TKW acapulcoite that is unpaired with the other ACAP material floating around recently, an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows off translucent augite, an awsome piece of nwa 801 CR2, and a few more than i'm probably not remembering to mention. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0? TIA! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Dear Stan and List Members, Stan wrote: ...an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows off translucent augite... Stan, this looks like very bad business ethics in a few ways, especially in undermining collector confidence in what YOU sell. Your eBay title reads, new NWA angrite meteorite possible NWA 2999/3164 pairs. This appears to be more self-pairing, are you a scientist? What is YOUR NWA number that was assigned to this material which actually looks like your ureilite a while back you claimed as pallasite-like (now that phrase sounds familiar!!). When I discovered NWA 2999 (the real McCoy!), there were only 12 complete stones in which I cut every single one of them and provided material to have thin sections made to determine they were all paired, which they were. Here is a link to a photo of those twelve OFFICIAL NWA 2999 stones: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2999/nwa2999a.jpg (notice how they are all flat on bottom where I cut a piece off for thin sections). There were however, a couple additional potential angrite stones that proved not to be angrite material so you need to have the scientists do their job and get an officially assigned NWA number for your material, whatever it may be. This needs to be done with all suspected meteorites, especially as rare and important as an angrite! In your eBay ad you state the material was purchased for you from someone at the Denver Show, most likely a Moroccan who made the pairing is my guess and we know what happens when you go strictly by their word, or even anyone else such as yourself in this case. Do the right thing, get it analyzed by a lab and have an NWA number assigned, the meteorite community deserves this of ALL of this type of thing. I see the coat-tailing happening again, not just with you, but with other self-made scientists who do not do the right thing. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days hello all i have a handfull of ebay auctions running right now that end in about 2 days. closing starting 19:00 PDT on monday the 16th. included in this grouping are some more great seymchans, a micro of nwa 2737 the chassignite, a nice shock veined shergotitte endcut, a new low TKW acapulcoite that is unpaired with the other ACAP material floating around recently, an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows off translucent augite, an awsome piece of nwa 801 CR2, and a few more than i'm probably not remembering to mention. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0? TIA! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Greg why dont you bother to read the whole gosh darned ebay listing before you accuse me of self pairing and asking me if i'm a scientist - to avoid making yourself look like a fool who is just trying to protect his market share without giving a rat's behind about the collectors. My ebay ad specifically states that NAU has ALREADY determined this material to be an angrite - and that the material is (provisional) NWA 2934. All that Dr. Bunch was waiting on before making this offical is the remainder of the type specimin deposit since Adam Aaronson's sample (the same source for Boswell's material and yours as well AFIK) was bellow the 20g requirement. the remainder of this mass he should have by next week the postal services willing. Now i guess you could argue that Dr. Bunch might not know what he is doing and i shouldnt offer the material till the classification is voted on by the nomcom - but since Dr. Bunch co-authored the 'case for mercury' paper AND took part in the classification of nwa 2999 I personally think his word on the matter is good enough for me. I fully disclosed that the number is provisional and that the assumption of pairing was based upon information from my source. I dont see what kind of (legitimate) complaint you might have. I have maybe another 5g of this material that is 'extra' to my collection from opening up the cut face on the stone i bought and removing material to finialize the type specimin donation. No need to worry about my flooding the market greg - after that 5g you can go back to selling the stuff for as much money as you can get. now why dont YOU do the right thing and apologize to the list for this BS. From: Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.131]) by bay0-mc3-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 14 Oct 2006 19:44:06 -0700 Received: from Gregor (dt062n83.tampabay.res.rr.com [24.92.16.131])by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k9F2i31l021545;Sat, 14 Oct 2006 22:44:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt3660MmjhEvYg2f34OAemlKtU9j2Z7TuGo= References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2006 02:44:06.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8953E70:01C6F003] Dear Stan and List Members, Stan wrote: ...an angrite slice paired to nwa 2999/3164 that shows off translucent augite... Stan, this looks like very bad business ethics in a few ways, especially in undermining collector confidence in what YOU sell. Your eBay title reads, new NWA angrite meteorite possible NWA 2999/3164 pairs. This appears to be more self-pairing, are you a scientist? What is YOUR NWA number that was assigned to this material which actually looks like your ureilite a while back you claimed as pallasite-like (now that phrase sounds familiar!!). When I discovered NWA 2999 (the real McCoy!), there were only 12 complete stones in which I cut every single one of them and provided material to have thin sections made to determine they were all paired, which they were. Here is a link to a photo of those twelve OFFICIAL NWA 2999 stones: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa2999/nwa2999a.jpg (notice how they are all flat on bottom where I cut a piece off for thin sections). There were however, a couple additional potential angrite stones that proved not to be angrite material so you need to have the scientists do their job and get an officially assigned NWA number for your material, whatever it may be. This needs to be done with all suspected meteorites, especially as rare and important as an angrite! In your eBay ad you state the material was purchased for you from someone at the Denver Show, most likely a Moroccan who made the pairing is my guess and we know what happens when you go strictly by their word, or even anyone else such as yourself in this case. Do the right thing, get it analyzed by a lab and have an NWA number assigned, the meteorite community deserves this of ALL of this type of thing. I see the coat-tailing happening again, not just with you, but with other self-made scientists who do not do the right thing. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days hello all i have a handfull of ebay auctions running right now that end in about 2 days. closing starting
[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
Some more nice seymchans, including an end piece that has the widmanstatten pattern visible on the back side form weathering and a distorted pattern on the front where the meteorite started to split during atmospheric entry, some seymchan with gemmy olivine, dho 008, kainsaz and a few others. Auctions start to end aug 23, 19:22 hrs PDT TIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days
got a few more lots of odds and ends. a neat cv3 slice with PURPLE chondrules and a type B 'dark inclusion', some pallasitic semchan including a large sliced single olivine crystal, a slice of dho 008, another crusted part slice of kainsaz and finally anopther piece of the new enstatite material ending starting at 19:00 PDT on aug 16th http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0? TIA! _ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [ebay] ending in about 2 days.
I have a few more meteorite odds and ends ending in about 2 days. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlaserprogramQQhtZ-1QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0? please ignore the laser do-dads, unless ofcourse you want to shop for high power diode lasers as you shop for fully gem olivine seymchan, fresh crusted kainsaz slices and crusted dho 008 (to name just a few) ending starting 18:44 PDT on aug 8th TIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
