Re: No Blob without Puffy
Please take this up on lists where it is more relevant. OpenBSD is not going to participate in a campaign that calls non-free things free. We don't tell lies like the other BSD's do. > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 06:04:12PM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote: > > Hi Pawel, > > > > Pawel Jakub Dawidek schrieb am Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:02:47PM +0100: > > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > > >> So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed > > >> by projects which embrace the Blob? > > > > > So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD > > > license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code? > > > How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? Why do you lie to > > > your users by having 'BSD' in operating system's name? > > > > Your analogy does not apply at all: > [...] > > Unfortunately you miss the point of my analogy. We have GPLed code. We > would like to get rid of it, but this is not possible just yet. Does > that automatically means that we are pro-GPL? That we lie having 'BSD' > in OS name? No, it means this is one of our goals, it is just not high > priority and we don't feel guilty. This is how it is. The same for > binary-only drivers. We would love to have everything open-source, but > this is not possible currently. We want to move in this direction, of > course, but we also want our users to use their hardware, to have > stable, scalable OS, etc. I'm one of those users with my atheros-based > wireless card I'm using right now. I know what I'm doing. I don't feel > less safe. I don't audit every single driver I use. And I'm happy to use > OS which gives me the choice. > > Hearing all those insults from Theo about all those great BSD people is > just sad. Sam Leffler is one of the most valuable open-source developers > in the history of BSD and UNIX in general, keep that in mind. I just > can't belive how easy people forget about all this. Ah, right, this is > called fanaticism. > > -- > Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 06:04:12PM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote: > Hi Pawel, > > Pawel Jakub Dawidek schrieb am Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:02:47PM +0100: > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > >> So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed > >> by projects which embrace the Blob? > > > So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD > > license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code? > > How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? Why do you lie to > > your users by having 'BSD' in operating system's name? > > Your analogy does not apply at all: [...] Unfortunately you miss the point of my analogy. We have GPLed code. We would like to get rid of it, but this is not possible just yet. Does that automatically means that we are pro-GPL? That we lie having 'BSD' in OS name? No, it means this is one of our goals, it is just not high priority and we don't feel guilty. This is how it is. The same for binary-only drivers. We would love to have everything open-source, but this is not possible currently. We want to move in this direction, of course, but we also want our users to use their hardware, to have stable, scalable OS, etc. I'm one of those users with my atheros-based wireless card I'm using right now. I know what I'm doing. I don't feel less safe. I don't audit every single driver I use. And I'm happy to use OS which gives me the choice. Hearing all those insults from Theo about all those great BSD people is just sad. Sam Leffler is one of the most valuable open-source developers in the history of BSD and UNIX in general, keep that in mind. I just can't belive how easy people forget about all this. Ah, right, this is called fanaticism. -- Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Matthew R. Dempsky wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 09:55:04PM -0400, Paul D. Ouderkirk wrote: > > And because I love to reply to myself, if I compile it with -O3, I can > > reproduce your results: > > -O3 enables -fstrict-aliasing, which this program violates. The man > page explains in more detail. Yep, it's a bit sad to see all the attempts at explaining the bug. But this one hits the mark. Additionally, while stock gcc enables -fstrict-aliasing with -O2, on OpenBSD -fstrict-aliasing is not enabled with -O2, since experience shows violations of pointer aliasing rules are seen a lot in the wild. See man gcc-local: - The -O2 option does not include -fstrict-aliasing, as this option causes issues on some legacy code. -fstrict-aliasing is very unsafe with code that plays tricks with casts, bypassing the already weak type system of C. So don't play tricks like that unless you really understand the issues involved. -Otto
A request for your input.
Hello My name is Lara Thynne and I am a PhD candidate at Deakin University Australia. I am currently researching the boundary between work and leisure activities directly related to the open source community and open source program development. As part of this I am running a survey at the following address. https://dcarf.deakin.edu.au/surveys/oss/ The survey is completely confidential and looks at your views and motivations to use Open Source software and to participate in the community. It will only take a five to ten minutes to complete and your contact details will not be recorded. You can withdraw your participation at any stage. I sincerely apologize for the spammish nature of this e-mail - I don't mean to abuse this list. I am trying to collect responses from as many open source developers and users as possible and a mailing list like can be the only way to reach many developers. Thanks again Lara P.S The program that I am using is open source, of course (www.phpsurveyor.org)!
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 05:43:19PM +0100, Timo Schoeler wrote: > in the sense of freedom, FreeBSD (among others) is a ultra-cheap whore, > as this fat pengiun is. Hehe:) As Borat use to say "very nice":) The problem is that in world's history the worst and the biggest source of evilness ever is fanaticism (religious, political and now what? software?). -- Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Tobias Ulmer wrote:
> /*
> * You assume that the in memory representation of an
> * unsigned [2] looks exactly like unsigned long long and you
> * expect to access the valid initialized memory of x by
> * dereferencing p.
> *
> * These assumptions are all wrong.
> */
Indeed.
The error is very similar to making assumptions about how
the internal structure of x, p and c might relate in the
commonly seen:
union roach_motel {
unsigned long long x;
unsigned int p[2];
unsigned char c[8];
} foo; /* draws bugs */
We haven't even scratched the surface of the subtle joys of
big-endian addressing schemes (note the plural) or alignment
requirements in some architectures.
> Your program is invalid. Gcc has all rights to fuck it up,
> -omg-optimized or not.
It's not strictly invalid, it just doesn't follow the programmer's
intent. This is the most difficult sort of bug to find for the
original programmer ("code blindness"), but a stranger can find it
more easily. Now if we take code like the example program, and
intersperse a few thousand lines of other code, and break it all
up over a hundred functions (and files, and bury the declarations
about 5 deep in include files), put half the bug in a library, we
have the makings of a Windoze-grade nightmare. Add some conditionals,
we can write it so that the problem with uninitialized "c" only
shows up one run in a thousand. 0xDEADBEEF comes to mind...
> Casts are basically syntactic sugar for "(i know what i'm doing, now
> shut up and stop complaining)". Remove the (void *) and compile with
> -Wall.
Some casts are "READ MY MIND, DAMN IT!". In this case, we notice
that cc -O2 and cc -O3 have different psychic skills.
I murmur again about "alignment issues", which don't exist for
the i386 architecture, as far as I know, except as an optimization.
(And certain obscure features of the PeeCee like DMA.)
The C standard is full of references to alignment.
In some architectures, I believe
void *p,*q; p=(long *)1; q=(char *)1;
p==q will be false.
To the OP: you can't do both bit-wise manipulation and arithmetic
and expect the results to be always what you think. Besides "endian"
issues and "alignment" issues, there can be questions of arithmetic
(2s-complement, 1s-complement, and others). The PeeCee has blinded
many to the rich diversity of hardware possibilities.
Sometimes you just have to drag out the assembler.
Dave
--
Resistance is futile. You've already been assembled.
Nokia IP130 Success?
I understand that the Nokia IP1x0 stores the MAC addresses for the fxp (4) interfaces in a strange ROM location and so you have to manually key them in after the OpenBSD install. Is this still the case and is it the case for the IP130 also? I found a document called IP130FAQ that states that the IP130 can achieve up to 13 Mbps of 3DES performance because of a hardware accelerator as compared to the IP120's 4.5 Mbps of 3DES performance in software. I am wondering if anyone is using an IP130 as an OpenBSD IPSEC VPN endpoint. If so, what kind of throughput can you get? Is this hardware accelerator supported by OpenBSD? I am considering using an IP130 as a VPN endpoint and NAT firewall for a 3 Mbps up and down wireless connection. Thanks for your help. Bryan P.S. I am glad to see a fix in -current for the reboot issue.
Re: Two indentical timed cronjobs, one gets ignored
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 03:44:05AM +0100, Han Boetes wrote: > I just had two cronjobs which were set on the same time and the > first match was executed and the second was ignored. Does /var/cron/log say anything? > Of course this is not entirely enexpected but is this considered a > bug or something which would be nice to be mentioned in the > manpage as a caveat? I have many jobs that run at the same time. -ME
Re: Compiling your own system as a way of upgrading it is not supported
On 3/18/07, Darren Spruell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 3/18/07, Maurice Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Friday, March 16, 2007 at 19:34:59 -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: > >Running "A.B-RELEASE+Patches" is very similar to "A.B-STABLE" since the > >user applied patches (available on the errata.html page) are included > >withing the -STABLE branch of cvs but the differences is the -STABLE > >branch of cvs also includes additional, less important bug fixes that > >were not note worthy enough to have an errata entry. The reason why > >patches are made available individually on the errata.html page is > >because some people are required to follow a policy of making *only* > >the minimal required changes to machines used in production > >environments. (i.e. "If it's running properly, don't mess with it"). > > One more question about this: is it supported to run a stable kernel on > a system that is release or release+errate? Although there are only (typically) slight differences between -stable and release+patches, they shouldn't be considered the same. > I have a test system tracking 4.0-stable (through anoncvs) and a few > systems that are running 4.0-release with some of the errate applied > (all kernel errata, but I skipped some others that I feel are not > needed, like the httpd-patch on systems not running httpd). > As an alternative to compiling the kernel on these systems, I could copy > the 4.0-stable kernel. Is this supported? As for supported, I don't know. One is not the same as the other. You'll be doing yourself a favor by not mismatching your kernel and userland. That being said I've run as Maurice is asking about for years at a time and never ran into a problem running -stable kernels and various -release+errata userlands. I got conservative though a year ago and just run -stable (or -current on my laptop) now. Greg
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Hi all, Sorry for the size of this email, but this issue drives me nuts. This discussion is for the most part not going anywhere and looks like dirty laundry between various party. Campaign for no BLOB start by refusing BLOB period. No one will do goodwill if not force to do so. That's human nature at large with few exceptions, but definitely corporation nature BIG TIME! Never ear of the corporate Jello mentality? No matter how hard you push on one side of the jiggleling good looking served plate on your table, as soon as you stop pushing, it takes is original form back, unless you cut part of it. Same for BLOBs. Unless you cut them out, they will keep coming back. Show how BLOB are bad, refuse them, buy hardware that don't need BLOB. If a product don't sale, they get replace on the free market, that's just how it is. Company are after market share, if they don't sale, they will change. So, make them change! I already post proof on this list a few months ago of how bad BLOB are with proof that if push to shove, I would argue that even the stock exchange commission might be interested to know in some cases. In my own case, I discover in my expensive commercial product purchase a few years ago and fully licenses with yearly 20% purchase price recurring support cost on it, that without my knowledge and even my explicit agreement, that private informations were send to that company each night! When raise hell on it, was send left and right with no clear answer, but keeping pushing was told that it will be disable in my license. But why was it there in the first place I asked? Did I have a choice? I didn't even know it. I didn't trust that answer, put firewall filtering everything coming OUT of it and collecting stats on it as well to proof my point and to fully discover really how it was working, oppose to what the technical manual said it was work. With logs in hands, send to them, that same company discovered that some informations was leaking to some other employee, or may be ex employee of that same company that they were not aware of. How you call that for miss use BLOBs and why they shouldn't be allow. You have no clue what's in them and what they do, because you can't see the code from it! Now a few months later, after all daily data is block, I get from that same company emails saying in the line of (some part was deliberately remove to protect the identity here) " To ensure your * platform is performing properly, .. to view the performance of your system. You will be contacted . Support engineer to access your respective system to capture performance data." They never cared before, each time troubles were send to them, stupid answers were provided in most cases, no solutions come out of it and we are left to fix it ourselves via work around. Even when proof of problems were provided, nothing was done to fix it! Now tell me. Are they really interested in making sure my systems are working properly??? Draw your own conclusions? They never been before, but when all blobs were block from sending private data from my business and my customers to them, a few months later under pretenses of making sure all works well, they request access to the systems? Tell me, would you let Microsoft for example, access your servers to see if they work well? I don't think so. But again, you might already do that via BLOB. You just don't know. If they were really proactive about performance of my systems, first of all they would have make it obvious that they were doing that. Then they would give you reports of it as well wouldn't they? Look to me if someone was doing this legally or to help their customers in a proactive way, I bet you that a marketing guy would make a big fuss about it to sale it to you and use it to show you they care about you don't you think? Buy our systems, we proactively monitor all aspect of it and provide you feedback on the well being of your systems for your and your customers benefit. I know a few IT manager that would jump to that and be so happy to report to their managers all the good that come out of this, etc. Sorry, I don't buy it! So, putting BLOB in your systems, is a way for any outsiders to have access to your systems without you knowing it, regardless how you look at it! OK, I grant you, it is not such a way in all cases, but do you know that? Plus you have no clue what these BLOB are doing! I challenge you, anyone that accept BLOB in your systems without questioning it, to proof that no private informations doesn't leak from your systems and that you don't have a back door into your systems without you knowing it. Or at best a remote hole ready to be discover and not fix in the future as that same provider wouldn't care. How long will it takes before you discover that you are running BLOB, knowingly or not that have remote holes in them. Some users complained that some securit
Re: NOOP and Spamd
On Mar 19, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Timothy A. Napthali wrote: The only problem I can foresee is that I remember reading somewhere that some MTAs use NOOP as a kind of keep-alive at times. You will also find the command sequence RSET+NOOP used to delimit transactions when an SMTP client reuses an established SMTP session to send multiple messages. Once upon a time the NOOP after RSET was required to work around some SMTP server protocol state machine bugs. While those servers a likely long gone, I still see this client behaviour on occasion. --lyndon
Re: Two indentical timed cronjobs, one gets ignored
* Han Boetes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-20 03:44:05]: > Hi, > > I just had two cronjobs which were set on the same time and the > first match was executed and the second was ignored. > > Of course this is not entirely enexpected but is this considered a > bug or something which would be nice to be mentioned in the > manpage as a caveat? > What does /var/cron/log have to say? -- Travers Buda
Re: spamlogd (how to specify port?)
Le Lundi 19 Mars 2007 05:09, Joachim Schipper a icrit : > On Sun, Mar 18, 2007 at 05:56:04PM -0600, Bob Beck wrote: > > * Joachim Schipper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-18 16:16]: > > > On Sun, Mar 18, 2007 at 08:57:32PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > > > On 2007/03/18 16:35, Peter wrote: > > > > > On OpenBSD 4.0, how do I specify what port spamlogd should consider > > > > > SMTP? My MTA is running on a non-standard port. > > > > > > > > edit /usr/src/libexec/spamlogd/spamlogd.c and recompile - > > > > it's hardcoded "ip and port 25 ..." > > > > > > Would something like the following not do the trick? > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Absolutely not. I am not putting in a knob for this > > > > If you're crazy enough to run an MTA on a non-standard port > > you know enough to recompile. > > Hmmm... yes, you are right. Oh well, I suppose the OP can now try > either. Thank you. I compiled and it seems to be working. But I, for one, would like that extra knob. ;) Pedro
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:12:24PM -0300, Gustavo Rios wrote:
> I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
> on the source? Did i forget some thing?
>
> #include
>
> int
> main(int argc, char **argv)
> {
>unsigned long long x, c;
>unsigned*p;
>
/* stop abusing the comma operator */
>x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
/* Fine, storing random void * pointers in p is allowd */
>p = (void *)&x;
/*
* You assume that the in memory representation of an
* unsigned [2] looks exactly like unsigned long long and you
* expect to access the valid initialized memory of x by
* dereferencing p.
*
* These assumptions are all wrong.
*/
>c = p[0] * p[1];
>
>fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
>fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
>fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
>
>return 0;
> }
>
>
Your program is invalid. Gcc has all rights to fuck it up,
-omg-optimized or not.
Casts are basically syntactic sugar for "(i know what i'm doing, now
shut up and stop complaining)". Remove the (void *) and compile with
-Wall.
Tobias
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 09:55:04PM -0400, Paul D. Ouderkirk wrote: > And because I love to reply to myself, if I compile it with -O3, I can > reproduce your results: -O3 enables -fstrict-aliasing, which this program violates. The man page explains in more detail.
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 04:40:08AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Compile it with -O3. Then enjoy. Sure. Then I'll light my hair on fire and put it out with a ballpeen hammer. -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: Have a OpenBSD store in Asia? Is it possible?
Wim Vandeputte wrote: Did you contact http://www.genesis.com.hk/ in Hong Kong? Or should we remove them from the list of resellers? Probably, I don't think they've been alive for a good many years. I seem to recall this being the case even back in 3.x days. --- Lars Hansson
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Lars D. Nooden wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Dave Anderson wrote: > > You've left out the extremely important fact that many vendors > > interpret acceptance of blobs by any "free" OS as validating their > > position of not releasing adequate documentation -- so accepting blobs > > (even when "there's no other choice") actively harms the anti-blob > > campaign. > > It harms more than just the campaign, it harms anyone wanting to maintain > a modicum of options further down the road in regards to hardware > lifecycles, operating system and kernel lifecycles, and last but not least > security. > > One anecdote regarding insecurity of mysterious binaries / BLOBs: > A local privilege escation has been known to exist, unfixed, for several > years in nvidia's binary drivers: > http://lwn.net/Articles/204541/ > > However, if you can't audit (and subsequently compile) all the code, > including the applications, libraries, compilers and OS, then you've got > nothing secure and nothing that can be made secure - regardless of > anecdotes, no amount of assurances, claims, hand waving, shouting, smoke, > noise etc. from vendors. Don't take my word for it, read what the ACM had > to say about it: > http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/ > > But it's not just 'security' that is at risk. The lifecycle of both the > operating system/kernel and the hardware that rely on the continued > availability of the BLOBs become dependent on the BLOBs producers. Those > are groups which may or may not continue to have interests and motivations > which overlap yours. If your hardware or system needs a BLOB to run, then > the BLOB-maker has you on a leash. > > Endorsing BLOBs puts *all* hardware, systems, and security at risk through > active effort, which is reprehensible. To have one system accepting them, > makes it all that much harder to keep them off. Think digital scab. > > Tolerating BLOBs or failing to eliminate BLOBs, are simply balless passive > means of putting the above at risk. To put it another way, it's possible > to gain control (political, economical, technical) of systems that get > locked into BLOBs either passively or actively and encroachment into one > system/distro can be used to marginalize the others. I lurk on this list and occasionally kibbitz. Various effects make OpenBSD a very efficient leading indicator. It works essentially thus. If the hardware gives OpenBSD trouble, it will tend to give everybody else trouble sooner or later. OpenBSD just finds out earlier. > > So to put it as kindly as I can, only people somewhere on the spectrum > between stupid and troll would be advocating acceptance or tolerance of > BLOBs. It's an act of harm that affects more than just the system with > the BLOB. > > -Lars > Lars NoodC)n ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Ensure access to your data now and in the future > http://opendocumentfellowship.org/about_us/contribute
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
"Gustavo Rios" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c > variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake > on the source? Did i forget some thing? Bleh, what a depressing thread. Gustavo, why didn't you bother to provide all the relevant info, like that you are foolishly compiling with -O3? Its pretty well known that gcc doesn't always produce correct output when using optimizations more aggressive than -O2. Stop using -O3 and suddenly it prints 2 all the time. Looks like this bug is fixed in gcc 4.2 at least. And what is with the "answers" being provided guys? Its only 8 lines, and its not that hard to follow. Guessing random "answers" isn't usually very helpful, maybe reading it and saying "there's nothing wrong with that code, are you using compiler optimizations?" would work better. At least a few people tried it instead of making up non-existant bugs in the code. Adam
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:17:46PM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:12:24PM -0300, Gustavo Rios wrote:
> > I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> > variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
> > on the source? Did i forget some thing?
> >
> > #include
> >
> > int
> > main(int argc, char **argv)
> > {
> >unsigned long long x, c;
> >unsigned*p;
> >
> >x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
> >p = (void *)&x;
> >c = p[0] * p[1];
> >
> >fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
> >fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
> >fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
> >
> >return 0;
> > }
>
> I run this many times, with other stuff in between, and I always get:
>
> $ ./gustavo
> x:8589934593
> 0,1:1,2
> c:2
>
> Same values for everything, every time. Hmm.
Compile it with -O3. Then enjoy.
Re: Compiling your own system as a way of upgrading it is not supported
RStachowiak wrote: > On 18/03/07, Nick Holland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > The question was not about normal upgrade procedure (which I'm perfectly > aware of ) but about internal working of system during upgrade phase to > let me understand it better and comprehend all corner cases. The formal upgrade process is by binary. So, if what you want to see is the internal operations of an upgrade, it's also binary... ... > So to further discuss -current case, sub questions are: > 1.1. is release date on cvs head tagged or announced somehow? It's tagged, yes. It really isn't announced. > 1.2. being on current and missing 'switch point' and then doing a binary > upgrade will (or rather can) result in system breakage, true? (that's why > typical 'use binary' answer won't work here (and why I'm so inclined to > learn more about process)) No, missing the "switch point" then doing a binary UPGRADE is fine. The problem is, you may end up trying to do a DOWNGRADE. That's a good way to make a mess of your system. The answer in this case is, "stick to 4.0", then. If you have missed the opportunity to download a -release or near-but-still-pre-release version, stick to the previous -release. Keep in mind, if you force your way to 4.1 before it is officially released, you had best really know what you are doing. If a serious bug is found between now and May 1, patches and -stable for 4.1 will not be released until release day. Yes, this has happened before. > 3. so if 2==true, what are other steps done by the people using -current > (looks like many of them are) do before/during/after upgrade ? Maybe I > should seek advice on different OpenBSD ml? Some people just run -current all the time. The only reason I run -release/-stable on some of my machines is to make sure I have a bunch of machines to test the upgradeXX.html instructions and patch file. Only reason a lot of developers run -stable at all is so they can more easily install packages after initial install. Some people grab snapshots regularly, and keep an eye on 'em, and when they switch to [next-release]-beta, start installing that, so their first upgrade is trivial, and also to make sure that they have a pre-release version handy. When you want to jump from one -current to a newer -current, you look at the "following current" page, http://www.openbsd.org/faq/current.html for guidance. > 4. where can I find more information about upgrade scripts used during > binary upgrades? someone has to write them, maintain them, etc. They are in the source tree, managed through cvs, as is everything in OpenBSD. See src/distrib/miniroot. >> What I'm looking for is: >> > a. maybe even incomplete but some description of steps to be taken >> >> See the FAQ. When going from -current to a /newer/ release, follow the >> "upgradeXX.html" instructions. Be aware that the magical "upgradeXX.patch >> " >> file assumes going from previous-release to new-release, not >> previous-current >> to new-release, so it is going to choke and belch a few places. > > > definitely, that's what I'm trying to understand. Probably I'll summarize it > then in some nice howto, if people be interested. for it example it should > let upgrade systems sooner, just after release being committed to the tree > without need to wait for all CDs to be prepared. Please don't. 4.1 exists now, but it is not yet supported, and won't be until May 1. Making it "easy" for people to get themselves into an unsupported state is NOT doing anyone a service. When writing documentation, you really should do it from an "I understand this" position, not a "I got it to work" position. Too many people still believe if it is in written form, it's true. There is too much crap documentation out there, much of it headed with "HOWTO". ... > Let me rephrase the question: Using environment described above and doing: > 2.1 checkout of 4.1 stable > 2.2 compilation of 4.1 stable > 2.3 installation of results > 2.4 applying upgradeXX.html steps > 2.5 doing things found in upgrade script from cdXX.iso > > Is there any major step I'm missing (from binary type of upgrade)? Unfortunately, your statements are not clearly defining the starting point. If you are doing this from a 4.0 machine, your step 2.2 is likely to fail. If it doesn't, 2.3 has already happened. 2.5 is done by steps 2.3. If you start from 4.1-release, 2.2 will just work, so you are done. You can /try/ starting from 4.0 and using the "Following Current" page and see if you can jump all the way from 4.0 to 4.1 in one shot. But, 1) Don't bet on it working. 2) remember you end up with a not-yet supported system. Nick.
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote: So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code? No. How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? I don't know, I run OpenBSD. --- Lars Hansson
Re: NOOP and Spamd
The only problem I can foresee is that I remember reading somewhere that some MTAs use NOOP as a kind of keep-alive at times. This may be an issue depending on how those MTAs deal with not getting the 250 response from SPAMD they were expecting. Tim. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Anderson Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2007 6:03 AM Cc: OpenBSD Misc Subject: Re: NOOP and Spamd ** Reply to message from Bob Beck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:40:52 -0600 >* Sid Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:25]: > >> > Regardless, if NOOP is in the SMTP standard, and spamd does not >> > handle it correctly, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. > > Bullshit. that's not a good enough reason - spamd does not implement >all of smtp, and never will. saying "it's in the smtp standard" is the >wrong way to get anything into spamd :) > > OTOH, if there is real stuff from the century of the fruit bat that >uses this I'll put it in. If it's someone's BBS mailer from the >century of Def Leppard and Mullets I'm not bloating the code one line >to deal with it. I've asked the poster for details. Anyone else who can >confirm real stuff needing NOOP please let me know. I certainly don't want to see spamd (or anything else) made overcomplicated by "somebody might need that" code, but wouldn't it make sense to include anything which is both in the standards and truly trivial to implement sufficiently for spamd's purposes? It seems to me that in those cases the cost to implement and maintain is so low as to be worthwhile even if it only avoids relatively unlikely problems. Dave -- Dave Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:12:24PM -0300, Gustavo Rios wrote:
> I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
> on the source? Did i forget some thing?
>
> #include
>
> int
> main(int argc, char **argv)
> {
>unsigned long long x, c;
>unsigned*p;
>
>x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
>p = (void *)&x;
>c = p[0] * p[1];
>
>fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
>fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
>fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
>
>return 0;
> }
I run this many times, with other stuff in between, and I always get:
$ ./gustavo
x:8589934593
0,1:1,2
c:2
Same values for everything, every time. Hmm.
--
Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/
http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 01:35:28AM +0100, Frank Denis wrote:
> Le Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:12:24PM -0300, Gustavo Rios ecrivait :
> >I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> >variable value change every time i run it.
> >int
> >main(int argc, char **argv)
> >{
> > unsigned long long x, c;
> > unsigned*p;
> > p = (void *)&x;
> > fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
>
> p is the address of x. That address is not supposed to be anything fixed.
He never prints p.
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 08:02:10PM -0400, Nick ! wrote: > Wait, how is * defined on two voids? That shouldn't even compile > (unless it's autocasting to int?). ``unsigned'' is short for ``unsigned int''. The ``(void *)'' cast is a red herring.
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On 3/19/07, Paul D. Ouderkirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No! > > p sizeof is 4 bytes, p is the frst byt of &x, and p + 1 is the 4th > byte. Casting is only on attribution of &x to p. > > Realize, p[0] evals to 1 and p[1] evals to 2 as it should be. Only > problem relates to p[0] * p[1]. I believe it should (1 * 2), i.e., 2. > Not a random value. For what it's worth, when I run this code I always get the same (presumably correct) values: And because I love to reply to myself, if I compile it with -O3, I can reproduce your results: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ cc -O3 test.c [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ ./a.out x:8589934593 0,1:1,2 c:1387628864 (value of c changes with every execution) -- -- Paul D. Ouderkirk Senior UNIX System Administrator JadedPixel Technologies [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- laughing, in the mechanism -- William Gibson
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No! p sizeof is 4 bytes, p is the frst byt of &x, and p + 1 is the 4th byte. Casting is only on attribution of &x to p. Realize, p[0] evals to 1 and p[1] evals to 2 as it should be. Only problem relates to p[0] * p[1]. I believe it should (1 * 2), i.e., 2. Not a random value. For what it's worth, when I run this code I always get the same (presumably correct) values: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ ./a.out x:8589934593 0,1:1,2 c:2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ uname -rm 4.0 i386 -- -- Paul D. Ouderkirk Senior UNIX System Administrator JadedPixel Technologies [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- laughing, in the mechanism -- William Gibson
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
Whenever a printf "fixes everything", it's usually because that forces
gcc to put the values on the stack. Without the printf, they're
probably in registers and p points to who knows what.
If you grok assembly, try objdump on the executable to see what's
going on. If you want to multiply the two halves of a long long, I'd
suggest shifting and masking it out explicitly instead of using
pointer tricks like this.
--david
On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No!
p sizeof is 4 bytes, p is the frst byt of &x, and p + 1 is the 4th
byte. Casting is only on attribution of &x to p.
Realize, p[0] evals to 1 and p[1] evals to 2 as it should be. Only
problem relates to p[0] * p[1]. I believe it should (1 * 2), i.e., 2.
Not a random value.
On 3/19/07, Nick ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/19/07, Nick ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> > > > variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
> > > > on the source? Did i forget some thing?
> > > >
> > > > #include
> > > >
> > > > int
> > > > main(int argc, char **argv)
> > > > {
> > > > unsigned long long x, c;
> > > > unsigned*p;
> > >
> > > ^ this is bad. always say your types in full.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
> > >
> > > This sets *(&x) to 1, and then sets *(&x) (yes, the same one) to 1+(1<<33)
> > >
> > > > p = (void *)&x;
> > > > c = p[0] * p[1];
> > >
> > > That is, p[1] == *(&x+1) is never getting set to anything. Thus the
> > > reason the output is always changing is because p[1] is always
> > > pointing at a different, random location in memory that has some
> > > previous value.
> > >
> > > Further, p[1] is not your memory, and it's only by chance that you're
> > > not segfaulting.
> > >
> > > > fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
> > > > fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
> > > > fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
> > > >
> > > > return 0;
> > > > }
> > > >
> > So, why when i printf p[1], it correctly prints 2?
>
> Uhm. Hmm. Well, x is a long long which is 8 bytes right? A void (when
> doing pointer arithmetic) is taken to only be 1 byte (right?). So p[0]
> is the first byte of those 8, and p[1] is the second, and due to
> coincidence and twos-complement encoding it happens to show you the
> expected numbers. Maybe?
>
> But that doesn't explain why the output is always changing.
>
> Wait, how is * defined on two voids? That shouldn't even compile
> (unless it's autocasting to int?).
>
> -Nick
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:26:12 -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: >Yes but since these are production machines in a lab that requires >clearance I can't share. We keep backups around for all these machines >since every now and then we lose one for no good reason. In contrast >the windows and openbsd machines we have deployed do not share this >behavior. > >You are the one making bold statements based on a non representative >sample. > >production server != home computing != desktop > >On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 05:31:11PM +0100, RedShift wrote: >> Marco Peereboom wrote: >> >If you like losing data ext3 and reiserfs work just fine. I manage to >> >lose Linux installations pretty often by doing crazy things like >> >rebooting. >> > Here is a quote from Theodore Tso (http://thunk.org/tytso/ for bio) a few months back in kerneltrap: The fact that reiserfs uses a single B-tree to store all of its data means that very entertaining things can happen if you lose a sector containing a high-level node in the tree. It's even more entertaining if you have image files (like initrd files) in reiserfs format stored in reiserfs, and you run the recovery program on the filesystem. Yes, I know that reiserfs4 is alleged to fix this problem, but as far as I know it is still using a single unitary tree, with all of the pitfalls that this entails. Now, that being said, that by itself is not a reason not to decide not to include reseirfs4 into the mainline sources. (I might privately get amused when system administrators use reiserfs and then report massive data loss, but that's my own failure of chairty; I'm working on it.) For the technical reasons why resierfs4 hasn't been integrated, please see the mailing list archives. Enough said? I think that backs up Marco pretty well, given that Tso is a Linux kernel dev since '91. I used to be an IBM Linux instructor until a few years ago and we always warned about Reiser FS being too bleedin' edgy. Seems it hasn't matured yet. >From the land "down under": Australia. Do we look from up over?
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
No!
p sizeof is 4 bytes, p is the frst byt of &x, and p + 1 is the 4th
byte. Casting is only on attribution of &x to p.
Realize, p[0] evals to 1 and p[1] evals to 2 as it should be. Only
problem relates to p[0] * p[1]. I believe it should (1 * 2), i.e., 2.
Not a random value.
On 3/19/07, Nick ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 3/19/07, Nick ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> > > variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
> > > on the source? Did i forget some thing?
> > >
> > > #include
> > >
> > > int
> > > main(int argc, char **argv)
> > > {
> > > unsigned long long x, c;
> > > unsigned*p;
> >
> > ^ this is bad. always say your types in full.
> >
> > >
> > > x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
> >
> > This sets *(&x) to 1, and then sets *(&x) (yes, the same one) to 1+(1<<33)
> >
> > > p = (void *)&x;
> > > c = p[0] * p[1];
> >
> > That is, p[1] == *(&x+1) is never getting set to anything. Thus the
> > reason the output is always changing is because p[1] is always
> > pointing at a different, random location in memory that has some
> > previous value.
> >
> > Further, p[1] is not your memory, and it's only by chance that you're
> > not segfaulting.
> >
> > > fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
> > > fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
> > > fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
> > >
> > > return 0;
> > > }
> > >
> So, why when i printf p[1], it correctly prints 2?
Uhm. Hmm. Well, x is a long long which is 8 bytes right? A void (when
doing pointer arithmetic) is taken to only be 1 byte (right?). So p[0]
is the first byte of those 8, and p[1] is the second, and due to
coincidence and twos-complement encoding it happens to show you the
expected numbers. Maybe?
But that doesn't explain why the output is always changing.
Wait, how is * defined on two voids? That shouldn't even compile
(unless it's autocasting to int?).
-Nick
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
Le Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:12:24PM -0300, Gustavo Rios ecrivait :
I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
variable value change every time i run it.
int
main(int argc, char **argv)
{
unsigned long long x, c;
unsigned*p;
p = (void *)&x;
fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
p is the address of x. That address is not supposed to be anything fixed.
--
Frank Denis - j [at] pureftpd.org - My geeky blog: http://00f.net
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 3/19/07, Nick ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> > variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
> > on the source? Did i forget some thing?
> >
> > #include
> >
> > int
> > main(int argc, char **argv)
> > {
> > unsigned long long x, c;
> > unsigned*p;
>
> ^ this is bad. always say your types in full.
>
> >
> > x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
>
> This sets *(&x) to 1, and then sets *(&x) (yes, the same one) to 1+(1<<33)
>
> > p = (void *)&x;
> > c = p[0] * p[1];
>
> That is, p[1] == *(&x+1) is never getting set to anything. Thus the
> reason the output is always changing is because p[1] is always
> pointing at a different, random location in memory that has some
> previous value.
>
> Further, p[1] is not your memory, and it's only by chance that you're
> not segfaulting.
>
> > fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
> > fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
> > fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
> >
> > return 0;
> > }
> >
So, why when i printf p[1], it correctly prints 2?
Uhm. Hmm. Well, x is a long long which is 8 bytes right? A void (when
doing pointer arithmetic) is taken to only be 1 byte (right?). So p[0]
is the first byte of those 8, and p[1] is the second, and due to
coincidence and twos-complement encoding it happens to show you the
expected numbers. Maybe?
But that doesn't explain why the output is always changing.
Wait, how is * defined on two voids? That shouldn't even compile
(unless it's autocasting to int?).
-Nick
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
So, why when i printf p[1], it correctly prints 2?
On 3/19/07, Nick ! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
> variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
> on the source? Did i forget some thing?
>
> #include
>
> int
> main(int argc, char **argv)
> {
> unsigned long long x, c;
> unsigned*p;
^ this is bad. always say your types in full.
>
> x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
This sets *(&x) to 1, and then sets *(&x) (yes, the same one) to 1+(1<<33)
> p = (void *)&x;
> c = p[0] * p[1];
That is, p[1] == *(&x+1) is never getting set to anything. Thus the
reason the output is always changing is because p[1] is always
pointing at a different, random location in memory that has some
previous value.
Further, p[1] is not your memory, and it's only by chance that you're
not segfaulting.
> fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
> fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
> fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
>
> return 0;
> }
>
-Nick
Re: adjusting mbuf
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Gustavo Rios wrote: > Here is the output: > > $ ifconfig -a > lo0: flags=8049 mtu 33224 >groups: lo >inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00 >inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128 >inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7 > sis0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 >lladdr 00:00:24:c7:31:20 >media: Ethernet 100baseTX (100baseTX full-duplex) >status: active >inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255 >inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3120%sis0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 > sis1: flags=8843 mtu 1500 >lladdr 00:00:24:c7:31:21 >media: Ethernet 100baseTX (none) >status: no carrier >inet 10.0.1.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.0.1.255 >inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3121%sis1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x2 > sis2: flags=8843 mtu 1500 >lladdr 00:00:24:c7:31:22 >media: Ethernet 100baseTX (none) >status: no carrier >inet 10.0.2.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.0.2.255 >inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3122%sis2 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3 > pflog0: flags=141 mtu 33224 > pfsync0: flags=0<> mtu 1460 >groups: carp > enc0: flags=0<> mtu 1536 > pppoe0: flags=8851 mtu 1492 >dev: sis0 state: session >sid: 0xdda5 PADI retries: 0 PADR retries: 0 time: 2d 21:08:21 >sppp: phase network authproto pap authname "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" >groups: pppoe egress >inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3120%pppoe0 -> prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x8 >inet 201.78.27.251 --> 0.0.0.1 netmask 0x > $ > > So, this is! What i am doing wrong ? Something to try: ifconfig sis1 down, same for sis2. The hypothesis is: the interfaces are marked up and have an IP, but no carrier. rup and ruptime walk the interface list to send broadcasts. If an interface is up but has no physcial connnection, it wil refuse packets, signalling that with an ENOBUFS. -Otto > > On 3/19/07, Otto Moerbeek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Gustavo Rios wrote: > > > > > Ok, > > > > > > Here is my output of netstat: > > > $ netstat -m > > > 331 mbufs in use: > > >326 mbufs allocated to data > > >2 mbufs allocated to packet headers > > >3 mbufs allocated to socket names and addresses > > > 72/152/6144 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) > > > 420 Kbytes allocated to network (53% in use) > > > 0 requests for memory denied > > > 0 requests for memory delayed > > > 0 calls to protocol drain routines > > > $ > > > > > > But rusers still gives that warning message, as also rup: > > > $ rusers > > > rusers: can't send broadcast packet: No buffer space available > > > $ rup > > > rup: RPC: Unable to send > > > $ > > > > > > How could i fix it? > > > > This is more probably a case of a funky network interface config than a > > real mbuf shortage. Check your ip's, netmasks and broadcasts addresses. > > > > -Otto > > > > > > > > On 3/19/07, Darren Spruell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Dear list members, > > > > > > > > > > how could i adjust my mbuf size? Need i to compile a news kernel ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > kern.maxclusters allows setting new limits for mbufs. > > > > > > > > This would supposedly go out with the same tuning warnings as usual; > > > > you may find you need a very good reason to adjust that, if it should > > > > be adjusted at all. Does 'netstat -m' show that you're hitting limits? > > > > > > > > This advice may apply to your situation as well: > > > > > > > > http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/openbsd/2004-07/1783.html > > > > > > > > DS
panic on Dell PowerEdge850 GENERIC.MP 4.0 (dmesg incl.)
Hello guys.
I'm migrating to 4.0 now and I have problem with panic on couple of my servers
on 4.0.
Servers crashes irregulary with page fault (6) -
(/src/sys says that's an arthmetic fault).
All servers crashes with the same EIP d02ce554, so I think it cannot be RAM.
Machines have Pentium D with 1 GB ECC RAM, kernel GENERIC.MP.
Dmesg and panic are below, moreover I will send you trace and ps from ddb if I
catch them.
### BEGIN DMESG
OpenBSD 4.0 (GENERIC.MP) #936: Sat Sep 16 19:27:28 MDT 2006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP
cpu0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 3.01 GHz
cpu0: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CF
LUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,EST,CNXT-ID,CX16
real mem = 1073053696 (1047904K)
avail mem = 970772480 (948020K)
using 4256 buffers containing 53755904 bytes (52496K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 08/22/06, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xffe90, SMB
IOS rev. 2.3 @ 0xfa3d0 (48 entries)
bios0: Dell Computer Corporation PowerEdge 850
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xf/0x1
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfb840/176 (9 entries)
pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 ("Intel 82801GB LPC" rev 0x00)
pcibios0: PCI bus #7 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xb000 0xcb000/0x1000 0xcc000/0x3c00 0xd/0x1600 0xd
1800/0x600 0xec000/0x4000!
ipmi0 at mainbus0: version 1.5 interface KCS iobase 0xca8/8 spacing 4
mainbus0: Intel MP Specification (Version 1.4) (DELL PE 01B6 )
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: apic clock running at 200 MHz
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 3.01 GHz
cpu1: FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CF
LUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,EST,CNXT-ID,CX16
mainbus0: bus 0 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 1 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 2 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 3 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 4 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 5 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 6 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 7 is type PCI
mainbus0: bus 8 is type ISA
ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 2 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins
ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 0, remapped to apid 2
ioapic1 at mainbus0: apid 3 pa 0xfec1, version 20, 24 pins
ioapic1: misconfigured as apic 0, remapped to apid 3
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel E7230 MCH" rev 0x00
ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Intel E7230 PCIE" rev 0x00
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
em0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "Intel PRO/1000 PT (82572EI)" rev 0x06: apic 2 int
16 (irq 5), address 00:15:17:15:9c:54
ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 "Intel 82801GB PCIE" rev 0x01
pci2 at ppb1 bus 2
ppb2 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel PCIE-PCIE" rev 0x09
pci3 at ppb2 bus 3
ppb3 at pci3 dev 2 function 0 vendor "Hint", unknown product 0x0022 rev 0x04
pci4 at ppb3 bus 4
vga1 at pci4 dev 2 function 0 "ATI Radeon VE QY" rev 0x00
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
vendor "Dell", unknown product 0x0010 (class undefined unknown subclass 0x00, re
v 0x00) at pci4 dev 4 function 0 not configured
"Dell DRAC 4 Virtual UART" rev 0x00 at pci4 dev 4 function 1 not configured
"Dell DRAC 4 SMIC" rev 0x00 at pci4 dev 4 function 2 not configured
pciide0 at pci4 dev 7 function 0 "CMD Technology PCI0680" rev 0x02
pciide0: bus-master DMA support present
pciide0: channel 0 wired to native-PCI mode
pciide0: using apic 3 int 0 (irq 5) for native-PCI interrupt
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0
scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
sd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI0 0/direct removable
sd0: drive offline
atapiscsi1 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 1
scsibus1 at atapiscsi1: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI0 5/cdrom removable
sd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 3
cd0(pciide0:0:1): using PIO mode 3
pciide0: channel 1 wired to native-PCI mode
ppb4 at pci0 dev 28 function 4 "Intel 82801G PCIE" rev 0x01
pci5 at ppb4 bus 5
bge0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 "Broadcom BCM5721" rev 0x11, BCM5750 B1 (0x4101):
apic 2 int 16 (irq 5), address 00:15:c5:fa:47:d2
brgphy0 at bge0 phy 1: BCM5750 10/100/1000baseT PHY, rev. 0
ppb5 at pci0 dev 28 function 5 "Intel 82801G PCIE" rev 0x01
pci6 at ppb5 bus 6
bge1 at pci6 dev 0 function 0 "Broadcom BCM5721" rev 0x11, BCM5750 B1 (0x4101):
apic 2 int 17 (irq 3), address 00:15:c5:fa:47:d3
brgphy1 at bge1 phy 1: BCM5750 10/100/1000baseT PHY, rev. 0
uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 "Intel 82801GB USB" rev 0x01: apic 2 int 20 (irq
11)
usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0
uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 "Intel 82801GB USB" rev 0x01: apic 2 int 21 (irq
10)
usb1 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0
uhub1 at usb1
uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.0
Re: poptop with arp proxy?
Nevermind, I figured it out. I set up an alias on my internal interface and then set up my pptp.conf and ppp.conf to assign IP's on this new range. Now everything works as I expect. Thanks for the suggestions. --Bryan On 3/19/07, Bryan Irvine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 3/9/07, Joachim Schipper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 01:31:38PM -0800, Bryan Irvine wrote: > > I'm running poptop on my home firewall, but I can't see any of the > > machines on that network (though I can see indivudal machine on > > friends network that are connected via isakmpd). Running tcpdump I > > can see the packets going into those machines but they don't make it > > back. > > > > I'm assuming I'm going to need an arp proxy to properly connect to > > machines on my network. > > > > Anyone doing a similar thing that can recomend a good next step or > > package to install? > > I don't really understand the problem, I am afraid. What I understand > is: > 1. You have configured poptop, which is a (bad) implementation of a VPN, > on your home network firewall machine > 2. Some remote client has connected to this firewall machine, without > any obvious error > 3. Said remote client can interact with the firewall without problems. > 4. When said firewall tries to interact with any host other than the > firewall on your network: > a. The data is actually sent over the poptop tunnel > b. This data is received by the firewall > c. This data is then sent out by the firewall to whatever host it > was originally destined to >i. This is not blocked by pf or whatever else - it's actually > sent over the proper network interface > d. This data is received by the target host on your network > e. No reply from the target host is seen on the network bingo on every point (including that poptop isn't that good) > If my understanding is correct, you'll first want to verify that the > network behaviour is actually as described (tcpdump is helpful here). > Then, take a good look at the packet sent to the target host: is it > obviously incorrect in some way? (Perhaps the original sender's IP > address is still on it, and hence it gets filtered?) The target host sees the internal ip assigned to the source host by poptop. > If this is correct, verify that no firewall or similar mechanism > prevents the target host from receiving the data. If this is not the > case, perform the same analysis in reverse - if the data is actually > received, what prevents the host from sending a reply (if the original > IP is still present, routing tables may need to be configured; > otherwise, consider all sorts of firewall rules). I did install arpd from ports, which isn't an arp proxy but rather it grabs every available IP on the network for itself, when running everything works as expected (i.e. the target machine can then ping back over the pptp tunnel) but then I get other oddities like dhcp stops working properly and machines complain about a duplicate ip 's and such. So I guess I still need a 'true' arp proxy, unless there's another suggestion? --Bryan
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Wikipedia's wrong?!?!?!?!?!?! What about the term 'truthiness'? Don't tell me Wikipedia's wrong about that, too? ;) danno ps- 2006-03-01 The Colbert Report, episode 58 Arianna Huffington challenges host Stephen Colbert on his claim that he had coined the word "truthiness". She cited Wikipedia, claiming that he had merely "popularized" the term. Regarding her source, Colbert, in character, responded: "Fuck them."[2] First non-news nationally-broadcast television program to cite Wikipedia in a debate. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timo Schoeler Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 12:17 PM To: Karel Kulhavy Cc: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy In epistula a Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:27:29 +0100: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 11:35:14AM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote: > > * SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]: > > > Free as in FreeBSD > > > > ahh, I finally get it. > > > > dry like water > > hot like ice > > free like freebsd > > FreeBSD is released under BSD licence and therefore is free software, > see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software > > CL< ah, then Wikipedia's definition of 'free' is wrong. The US is a democracy, isn't it? does the majority back the Iraq invasion? :) FreeBSD may be -- as GNU/Linux -- 'free as in beer', you can get it (almost) for free (you have to pay your DSL line/electricity to download it, or media and shipping, etc). But try to brew your own beer -- then GNU/Linux and FreeBSD biogenetic engineers will teach you what 'freedom' is. SCNR
Re: Possible problem with GCC-generated code when using -O2 on amd64
On 3/19/07, Carlos Valiente <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On my -CURRENT amd64 system, Python 2.5 (installed from packge file
python-2.5p3.tgz on 14 Mar 2007) is segfaulting within an installed
module (the PostgreSQL Python driver from
http://www.initd.org/tracker/psycopg/wiki/PsycopgTwo). The crash
happens in line 175 of this function of the PostgreSQL Python driver:
166:static PyObject *
167:qstring_str(qstringObject *self)
168:{
169:Dprintf("qstring_str: self: %p", self);
170:if (self->buffer == NULL) {
171:qstring_quote(self);
172:Dprintf("qstring_str: self: %p", self);
173:
174:Dprintf("qstring_str: About to bomb...");
175:Dprintf("qstring_str: self->buffer: %p", self->buffer);
176:}
177:Py_XINCREF(self->buffer);
178:return self->buffer;
179:}
Before the call to qstring_quote(), self is not NULL (I get values
like 0x49f487e0). After the call, however, self is NULL.
The GCC flags used to compile and link that code include -O2. When I
manually compile and link that code with -O0, however, things work as
expected.
Is GCC the culprit of this problem, or should I keep on looking somewhere else?
"with -O0, however, things work as expected." I think you've answered
your own question.
I compliment you on your very detailed bug hunting.
-Nick
Re: External Router
use route tables, set the getaway 10.30.9.253 for the subnet on which your other office is, and use your ISP's getaway as default getaway. you can manipulate route tables with route(8). On 3/19/07, Ricardo Lucas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello ppl from misc, I have an issue, I have a little lan with a oBSD box that connect to my ISP and bring the Internet to this lan, but I have another router inside that lan that connects me to my another office, and I have a win2000 machine that is the DNS for this router, so, if I want to connect to my other office I have to set the machines configurations to gateway -> 10.30.9.253, the router and DNS 10.30.9.250, the win2000 machine, and if I want to use the internet i have to use set the machines configurations to gateway -> 10.30.9.254, the oBSD box and DNS are from my ISP. So what I want is that the oBSD handle this job, I mean, I want use only the oBSD as a router and when the traffic is for the other office the oBSD send the traffic to the 10.30.9.253 router and when the the traffic is for the Internet the oBSD send the traffic trough it's connection to my ISP. So, that's it... -- Best regards Ricardo Lucas -- almir
Re: strange output on openbsd C code
On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
on the source? Did i forget some thing?
#include
int
main(int argc, char **argv)
{
unsigned long long x, c;
unsigned*p;
^ this is bad. always say your types in full.
x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
This sets *(&x) to 1, and then sets *(&x) (yes, the same one) to 1+(1<<33)
p = (void *)&x;
c = p[0] * p[1];
That is, p[1] == *(&x+1) is never getting set to anything. Thus the
reason the output is always changing is because p[1] is always
pointing at a different, random location in memory that has some
previous value.
Further, p[1] is not your memory, and it's only by chance that you're
not segfaulting.
fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
return 0;
}
-Nick
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:26:18 -0500 Matthew Weigel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Timo Schoeler wrote: > > > people with a total lack of so called 'soft skills' won't see them, > > tho, but that is neither Theo's problem nor anyone else's. > > Give me a break. If anyone posted here saying that they would post some > private correspondence with Theo unless he took some action, misc@ would > be all over them. > -- > Matthew Weigel > hacker > [EMAIL PROTECTED] you didn't get the point, again; q.e.d. let's stop abusing electrons :)
Re: Google's Perftools and tcmalloc - Worth the risk?
On Monday, March 19, "Chris 'Xenon' Hanson" wrote: > >Optimally, you could switch between allocators as a compile-time > define. U se a tougher allocator for debugging and stress testing. Use > a lighter, faster one in situ ations where you are confident that the > code is solid and needs speed more than bullet-res istance. If that was usefull, people would do this all the time. You're making a number of assumptions. Amoung them is that the ligther allocator does not have any bugs that are exploitable. That there is no interaction between it and the rest of your code (say it allocated free'd memory in a certain pattern that is exploitable by external code), and a host of other things. Also, as most people that have done large-scale real-world deployment of services will tell you, you need real-world excersizing of your code in order to find your bugs. The rest (test data, etc) is a way to get some assurance, but in the end it does not substitute for the real thing. Compile time options are bad. --Toby.
Re: supported internal dsl modem for soekris available ?
Christoph Leser wrote: hello, I would love to set up a openBSD/soekris based dsl router for accessing the internet from home (my provider is t-com from germany). Can anyone here tell me whether there are internal dsl modem cards available which are supported by openBSD? although it is not ideal, I'm using an external USB ADSL modem by alcatel/thomson (speedtouch i think) which is powered from the usb. it works with 4.0 generic although it requires using a blob from the thomson website (aarrrgg!). It would be sad if I had to install an external dsl modem, with yet another external power supply Thanks Christoph -- This email has been verified as Virus free Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On 3/19/07 4:48 PM, Marco Peereboom wrote: You are so uninformed that it isn't even funny to pick on you. Karel clocks on the wrong edge and is by far the worst educated asocial asshole I have met on this list. +++chefren
Re: OpenOSPFd and kernel routing table
On 2007/02/23 12:52, Falk Brockerhoff wrote: > Claudio Jeker schrieb: > > Hmm. For some reasons the carp route is not cleared correctly. > > I'll have a look at it. > > > Do you have any news on this topic? I like to run OpenOSPFd on my > routers, but since the bugfix there isn't any redundancy. Hope to hear > some good news :) try kroute.c 1.43
Re: adjusting mbuf
Here is the output: $ ifconfig -a lo0: flags=8049 mtu 33224 groups: lo inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00 inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128 inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x7 sis0: flags=8843 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:00:24:c7:31:20 media: Ethernet 100baseTX (100baseTX full-duplex) status: active inet 10.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.0.0.255 inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3120%sis0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 sis1: flags=8843 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:00:24:c7:31:21 media: Ethernet 100baseTX (none) status: no carrier inet 10.0.1.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.0.1.255 inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3121%sis1 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x2 sis2: flags=8843 mtu 1500 lladdr 00:00:24:c7:31:22 media: Ethernet 100baseTX (none) status: no carrier inet 10.0.2.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 10.0.2.255 inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3122%sis2 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3 pflog0: flags=141 mtu 33224 pfsync0: flags=0<> mtu 1460 groups: carp enc0: flags=0<> mtu 1536 pppoe0: flags=8851 mtu 1492 dev: sis0 state: session sid: 0xdda5 PADI retries: 0 PADR retries: 0 time: 2d 21:08:21 sppp: phase network authproto pap authname "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" groups: pppoe egress inet6 fe80::200:24ff:fec7:3120%pppoe0 -> prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x8 inet 201.78.27.251 --> 0.0.0.1 netmask 0x $ So, this is! What i am doing wrong ? On 3/19/07, Otto Moerbeek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Gustavo Rios wrote: > Ok, > > Here is my output of netstat: > $ netstat -m > 331 mbufs in use: >326 mbufs allocated to data >2 mbufs allocated to packet headers >3 mbufs allocated to socket names and addresses > 72/152/6144 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) > 420 Kbytes allocated to network (53% in use) > 0 requests for memory denied > 0 requests for memory delayed > 0 calls to protocol drain routines > $ > > But rusers still gives that warning message, as also rup: > $ rusers > rusers: can't send broadcast packet: No buffer space available > $ rup > rup: RPC: Unable to send > $ > > How could i fix it? This is more probably a case of a funky network interface config than a real mbuf shortage. Check your ip's, netmasks and broadcasts addresses. -Otto > > On 3/19/07, Darren Spruell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dear list members, > > > > > > how could i adjust my mbuf size? Need i to compile a news kernel ? > > > > > > > kern.maxclusters allows setting new limits for mbufs. > > > > This would supposedly go out with the same tuning warnings as usual; > > you may find you need a very good reason to adjust that, if it should > > be adjusted at all. Does 'netstat -m' show that you're hitting limits? > > > > This advice may apply to your situation as well: > > > > http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/openbsd/2004-07/1783.html > > > > DS
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
Yes but since these are production machines in a lab that requires clearance I can't share. We keep backups around for all these machines since every now and then we lose one for no good reason. In contrast the windows and openbsd machines we have deployed do not share this behavior. You are the one making bold statements based on a non representative sample. production server != home computing != desktop On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 05:31:11PM +0100, RedShift wrote: > Marco Peereboom wrote: > >If you like losing data ext3 and reiserfs work just fine. I manage to > >lose Linux installations pretty often by doing crazy things like > >rebooting. > > > >On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:41:05PM +0100, RedShift wrote: > >>Claudio Jeker wrote: > >>>On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:48:44PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 12:36:00PM -0500, R. Fumione wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I am using OpenBSD on server since few years now, and I am very happy > >with it's easy maintenance and it's stability. I want to try on > >desktop, and I am having trouble. > > > >Everything is much slower than existing Linux system. For example, > >Firefox takes 3-5 seconds to start on Linux but ~10 seconds on > >OpenBSD on same machine! > I have the same problem. The FFS doesn't seem to be as fast as ext2. > > >>>On the other hand I never lost data on ffs while a crashing linux box > >>>likes to eat up file systems. If you like to get ext2 speed just mount > >>>your filesystems async and hope for the best (that's what linux is > >>>doing). > >>> > >>That's what transactional filesystems like ext3 and reiserfs are for. I > >>can highly recommend reiserfs. > >> > >>Glenn > >> > > > > Do you have some evidence to back up your pretty bold statement?
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:59:51 -0400, Dan Farrell wrote: >I thought it was free as in beer, but because of the blobs, not >necessarily free as in you can do whatever you want with it... > >Because what can you do with a blob? Are you allowed to use a blob >anywhere you want, in any situation? Are you allowed to crack open a >blob and use parts of its code to re-write your own software/drivers? >Are you even allowed to have documentation regarding a blob? These are >all defined by license restrictions... that restrict your freedom >concerning the use of the blob. > >So IMHO "Free"BSD is only free to obtain... but not fully 'free' to use >in any way you want. > >Please follow the simple formula- > > License Restriction = Not Free. > >You've been so involved in this discussion I thought you wouldn't need >this simplistic review... or maybe you're just trolling. Yes, he is just trolling. And for the other mentally challenged who think that FREEbsd has any real freedom, cop this quote from their website: "While you might expect an operating system with these features to sell for a high price, FreeBSD is available free of charge and comes with full source code. If you would like to purchase or download a copy to try out, more information is available." Full source code? For all the blobs? Really? Or do you accept entries in the Obfuscated Code Contest as real, usable, and fixable if needed, source? >From the land "down under": Australia. Do we look from up over?
strange output on openbsd C code
I am writing a very simple program but the output change for the c
variable value change every time i run it. What would it be my mistake
on the source? Did i forget some thing?
#include
int
main(int argc, char **argv)
{
unsigned long long x, c;
unsigned*p;
x = 1, x+= (unsigned long long)1 << 33 ;
p = (void *)&x;
c = p[0] * p[1];
fprintf(stdout, "x:%llu\n", x);
fprintf(stdout, "0,1:%u,%u\n", p[0], p[1]);
fprintf(stdout, "c:%llu\n", c);
return 0;
}
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
> Anyone have or know of a good beginner's tutorial on how to > setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network? you want a resolver for your local IPv4 subnets? just add named_flags="" to /etc/rc.conf.local and restart
Re: poptop with arp proxy?
On 3/9/07, Joachim Schipper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 01:31:38PM -0800, Bryan Irvine wrote: > I'm running poptop on my home firewall, but I can't see any of the > machines on that network (though I can see indivudal machine on > friends network that are connected via isakmpd). Running tcpdump I > can see the packets going into those machines but they don't make it > back. > > I'm assuming I'm going to need an arp proxy to properly connect to > machines on my network. > > Anyone doing a similar thing that can recomend a good next step or > package to install? I don't really understand the problem, I am afraid. What I understand is: 1. You have configured poptop, which is a (bad) implementation of a VPN, on your home network firewall machine 2. Some remote client has connected to this firewall machine, without any obvious error 3. Said remote client can interact with the firewall without problems. 4. When said firewall tries to interact with any host other than the firewall on your network: a. The data is actually sent over the poptop tunnel b. This data is received by the firewall c. This data is then sent out by the firewall to whatever host it was originally destined to i. This is not blocked by pf or whatever else - it's actually sent over the proper network interface d. This data is received by the target host on your network e. No reply from the target host is seen on the network bingo on every point (including that poptop isn't that good) If my understanding is correct, you'll first want to verify that the network behaviour is actually as described (tcpdump is helpful here). Then, take a good look at the packet sent to the target host: is it obviously incorrect in some way? (Perhaps the original sender's IP address is still on it, and hence it gets filtered?) The target host sees the internal ip assigned to the source host by poptop. If this is correct, verify that no firewall or similar mechanism prevents the target host from receiving the data. If this is not the case, perform the same analysis in reverse - if the data is actually received, what prevents the host from sending a reply (if the original IP is still present, routing tables may need to be configured; otherwise, consider all sorts of firewall rules). I did install arpd from ports, which isn't an arp proxy but rather it grabs every available IP on the network for itself, when running everything works as expected (i.e. the target machine can then ping back over the pptp tunnel) but then I get other oddities like dhcp stops working properly and machines complain about a duplicate ip 's and such. So I guess I still need a 'true' arp proxy, unless there's another suggestion? --Bryan
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Dave Anderson wrote: > You've left out the extremely important fact that many vendors > interpret acceptance of blobs by any "free" OS as validating their > position of not releasing adequate documentation -- so accepting blobs > (even when "there's no other choice") actively harms the anti-blob > campaign. It harms more than just the campaign, it harms anyone wanting to maintain a modicum of options further down the road in regards to hardware lifecycles, operating system and kernel lifecycles, and last but not least security. One anecdote regarding insecurity of mysterious binaries / BLOBs: A local privilege escation has been known to exist, unfixed, for several years in nvidia's binary drivers: http://lwn.net/Articles/204541/ However, if you can't audit (and subsequently compile) all the code, including the applications, libraries, compilers and OS, then you've got nothing secure and nothing that can be made secure - regardless of anecdotes, no amount of assurances, claims, hand waving, shouting, smoke, noise etc. from vendors. Don't take my word for it, read what the ACM had to say about it: http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/ But it's not just 'security' that is at risk. The lifecycle of both the operating system/kernel and the hardware that rely on the continued availability of the BLOBs become dependent on the BLOBs producers. Those are groups which may or may not continue to have interests and motivations which overlap yours. If your hardware or system needs a BLOB to run, then the BLOB-maker has you on a leash. Endorsing BLOBs puts *all* hardware, systems, and security at risk through active effort, which is reprehensible. To have one system accepting them, makes it all that much harder to keep them off. Think digital scab. Tolerating BLOBs or failing to eliminate BLOBs, are simply balless passive means of putting the above at risk. To put it another way, it's possible to gain control (political, economical, technical) of systems that get locked into BLOBs either passively or actively and encroachment into one system/distro can be used to marginalize the others. So to put it as kindly as I can, only people somewhere on the spectrum between stupid and troll would be advocating acceptance or tolerance of BLOBs. It's an act of harm that affects more than just the system with the BLOB. -Lars Lars NoodC)n ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Ensure access to your data now and in the future http://opendocumentfellowship.org/about_us/contribute
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:23:43AM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > But if you write a program and the user finds it full of bugs, are they > going to care that you can say that it's GCC's fault? The burden falls > on the developers to make code that works, including working around > problems in the compiler. Sad, but true. We can analogically use this argument for ocassional errors in memory, too. If I write a program and the user finds it crashing all the time, are they going to care that you can say that their hardware may be unstable? Yeah but see, you can try it on different hardware and show that it works. GCC is the only option for compiling we've got, so your analogy fails. OpenBSD then should be written with Hamming, Golay, or Reed-Solomon codes in all the internal structures, to automatically recover from flipped bits in data structures. Similar protection should be done to the code. The code should be periodically CRC-ed and the process image snapshotted. If it were revealed the code is corrupted, a rollback would be done and the process restarted. What do you want?? You must be being sarcastic in some of these posts but I can't tell which. -Nick
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On 3/19/07, Pawel Jakub Dawidek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code? How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? Why do you lie to your users by having 'BSD' in operating system's name? for those that care, openbsd's license policy is very clear. http://www.openbsd.org/policy.html this page is linked to from the word "free" on the front page. it also hasn't changed in a long time. now, if you go to http://www.freebsd.org/about.html, you'll find the freebsd is free section. it's funny that "free of charge" is linked, but "comes with full source code" is not.
External Router
Hello ppl from misc, I have an issue, I have a little lan with a oBSD box that connect to my ISP and bring the Internet to this lan, but I have another router inside that lan that connects me to my another office, and I have a win2000 machine that is the DNS for this router, so, if I want to connect to my other office I have to set the machines configurations to gateway -> 10.30.9.253, the router and DNS 10.30.9.250, the win2000 machine, and if I want to use the internet i have to use set the machines configurations to gateway -> 10.30.9.254, the oBSD box and DNS are from my ISP. So what I want is that the oBSD handle this job, I mean, I want use only the oBSD as a router and when the traffic is for the other office the oBSD send the traffic to the 10.30.9.253 router and when the the traffic is for the Internet the oBSD send the traffic trough it's connection to my ISP. So, that's it... -- Best regards Ricardo Lucas
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Timo Schoeler wrote: > people with a total lack of so called 'soft skills' won't see them, > tho, but that is neither Theo's problem nor anyone else's. Give me a break. If anyone posted here saying that they would post some private correspondence with Theo unless he took some action, misc@ would be all over them. -- Matthew Weigel hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: NOOP and Spamd
** Reply to message from Bob Beck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:40:52 -0600 >* Sid Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:25]: > >> > Regardless, if NOOP is in the SMTP standard, and spamd does not handle >> > it correctly, that is a bug that needs to be fixed. > > Bullshit. that's not a good enough reason - spamd does not >implement all of smtp, and never will. saying "it's in the smtp >standard" is the wrong way to get anything into spamd :) > > OTOH, if there is real stuff from the century of the fruit bat >that uses this I'll put it in. If it's someone's BBS mailer from >the century of Def Leppard and Mullets I'm not bloating the code one line >to deal with it. I've asked the poster for details. Anyone else who >can confirm real stuff needing NOOP please let me know. I certainly don't want to see spamd (or anything else) made overcomplicated by "somebody might need that" code, but wouldn't it make sense to include anything which is both in the standards and truly trivial to implement sufficiently for spamd's purposes? It seems to me that in those cases the cost to implement and maintain is so low as to be worthwhile even if it only avoids relatively unlikely problems. Dave -- Dave Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
supported internal dsl modem for soekris available ?
hello, I would love to set up a openBSD/soekris based dsl router for accessing the internet from home (my provider is t-com from germany). Can anyone here tell me whether there are internal dsl modem cards available which are supported by openBSD? It would be sad if I had to install an external dsl modem, with yet another external power supply Thanks Christoph
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
What about Charlie Root testing something remotely through cron and then
Ok, I'll bite. This is not hard. Here's something I did real quick.
Use at your own risk. Replace XXX with your closest ftp mirror from
http://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html. Read the comments.
As root:
patch -p0 < [extract patch from below my sig]
mkdir -m 755 /var/errata
chown root:wheel /etc/errata
chmod 644 /etc/errata
sh /etc/errata to test as non-root. You can forego the patch to
/etc/daily and run as needed standalone, otherwise root will get daily
errata output emails.
--
Kyle George
--- /usr/src/etc/daily Tue Dec 6 15:18:56 2005
+++ /etc/daily Sun Mar 18 00:52:35 2007
@@ -20,8 +20,13 @@
rm -f ${TMP}
exit 1
}
+OUT2=`mktemp /tmp/_errata.XX` || {
+rm -f ${TMP}
+rm -f ${OUT}
+exit 1
+}
-trap 'rm -f $TMP $OUT' 0 1 15
+trap 'rm -f $TMP $OUT $OUT2' 0 1 15
echo ""
echo "Removing scratch and junk files:"
@@ -174,3 +179,9 @@
if [ -s $OUT ]; then
mail -s "`hostname` daily insecurity output" root < $OUT
fi
+
+sh /etc/errata 2>&1 > $OUT2
+if [ -s $OUT2 ]; then
+mail -s "`hostname` daily errata output" root < $OUT2
+fi
+
--- /usr/src/etc/changelist Tue Dec 27 23:57:28 2005
+++ /etc/changelist Mon Mar 19 13:58:18 2007
@@ -27,6 +27,7 @@
/etc/dhcpd.interfaces
/etc/disktab
/etc/distfile
+/etc/errata
/etc/ethers
/etc/exports
/etc/fbtab
--- /dev/null Mon Mar 19 15:33:55 2007
+++ /etc/errata Mon Mar 19 15:20:10 2007
@@ -0,0 +1,146 @@
+#!/bin/sh -
+#
+# Check for available/changed OpenBSD errata.
+#
+# Description and Usage:
+#
+# Replace ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD with your favorite mirror from
+# the list: http://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html.
+#
+# Check for available errata by looking at the errata X.Y.tar.gz from
+# the OpenBSD ftp site (or preferrably, a mirror). Also check for
+# errata that may have been revised since first issued or applied.
+# This works by comparing the listing of /var/errata and the contents
+# of non-empty patch files in /var/errata to the available errata in
+# the errata archive.
+#
+# Let ${PNNN} be the three digit patch number and ${PNAME} be the
+# patch filename: After applying a patch or to ignore a particular
+# erratum, cp the patch to /var/errata, cp the patch to
+# /var/errata/${PNNN}, touch /var/errata/${PNAME}, or touch
+# /var/errata/${PNNN}.
+#
+# Example: After applying erratum 010 for 4.0, cp 010_m_dup1.patch
+# to /var/errata, cp 010_m_dup1.patch to /var/errata/010, touch
+# /var/errata/010_m_dup1.patch, or touch /var/errata/010 to indicate
+# that erratum 010 has been applied.
+#
+# It's strongly recommended to copy the full patch so this script can
+# detect future patch revisions.
+#
+# Caveats:
+#
+# Dependent on the structure and location of X.Y.tar.gz.
+# Does not check for errata from the ports collection.
+# Does not handle errata that do not have associated .patch files.
+# Remember to remove /var/errata/* after upgrading.
+#
+# Copyright (c) 2007 Kyle George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
+#
+# Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any
+# purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above
+# copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies.
+#
+# THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES
+# WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
+# MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR
+# ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES
+# WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN
+# ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF
+# OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE.
+
+PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin
+
+# Cleanup temporaries
+cleanup()
+{
+ test -f ${ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_FILE} && \
+rm -f ${ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_FILE}
+ test -d ${ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_DIR} && \
+test $(dirname ${ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_DIR}) = "/tmp" && \
+ rm -Rf ${ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_DIR}
+}
+
+# Terminate from error
+error()
+{
+ if [ X"$1" != X"" ] ; then
+echo error: $1
+ else
+echo error: unexpected error
+ fi
+ exit 1
+}
+
+# Setup: Build file/path names/URLs and make temporary files/directories
+
+trap cleanup 0 1 2 3 13 15
+
+ERRATA_DIR=/var/errata
+ERRATA_TGZ_URL=ftp://XXX/pub/OpenBSD/patches/$(uname -r).tar.gz
+ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_DIR=$(mktemp -d /tmp/_errata_tgz_tmp_dir.XX) || error
+ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_FILE=$(mktemp /tmp/_errata_tgz_tmp_file.XX) || error
+
+# Make ERRATA_DIR if it doesn't exist
+
+if [ ! -d ${ERRATA_DIR} ] ; then
+ mkdir -m 755 ${ERRATA_DIR} || \
+error "could not make errata directory"
+fi
+
+# Download X.Y.tar.gz and extract
+
+lynx -source ${ERRATA_TGZ_URL} > ${ERRATA_TGZ_TMP_FILE} 2> /dev/null
+
+if [ $? -ne 0 ] ; then
+ # Failed; maybe X.Y.tar.gz doesn't exist; let's check
+ ERRATA
Re: acx on soekris with openbsd 4.0 - Re-post
On 3/19/07, mail-lists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sorry, I've asked this before and didn't get a response.. am I asking this incorrectly - or in the wrong place? This is the right place, you just haven't done your research so no one bothered to answer. You might want to look into [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello all, I'm trying to get a mini pci card working on OpenBSD 4.0. I ripped this card out of a dlink router that we weren't using. From what I understand it's supposed to use the acx driver. When I try to do an 'ifconfig acx0 up' it gives me 'Device no configured' I'm assuming that this is because OpenBSD didn't detect the card. I scoured the dmesg output but didn't find anything that looks like a wireless card. If $dmesg | grep acx gives you nothing then ifconfig acx0 won't work. Where does your information that it's supposed to be acx(4) come from? I'm not overly familiar with the way openbsd handles hardware so is there a way to 'force' openbsd to find the card? No. Everything your kernel can load is loaded. OpenBSD is not like linux :) I've already installed the firmware as specified in the man-page, but I don't know where to go from here.. I have a feeling I'm SOL with this card If it's from a dlink, probably. Get a ral(4), they are from a nice taiwanese company that is friendly to open source. [snip dmesg] -Nick
Re: adjusting mbuf
Ok, Here is my output of netstat: $ netstat -m 331 mbufs in use: 326 mbufs allocated to data 2 mbufs allocated to packet headers 3 mbufs allocated to socket names and addresses 72/152/6144 mbuf clusters in use (current/peak/max) 420 Kbytes allocated to network (53% in use) 0 requests for memory denied 0 requests for memory delayed 0 calls to protocol drain routines $ But rusers still gives that warning message, as also rup: $ rusers rusers: can't send broadcast packet: No buffer space available $ rup rup: RPC: Unable to send $ How could i fix it? On 3/19/07, Darren Spruell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 3/19/07, Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear list members, > > how could i adjust my mbuf size? Need i to compile a news kernel ? > kern.maxclusters allows setting new limits for mbufs. This would supposedly go out with the same tuning warnings as usual; you may find you need a very good reason to adjust that, if it should be adjusted at all. Does 'netstat -m' show that you're hitting limits? This advice may apply to your situation as well: http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/openbsd/2004-07/1783.html DS
Re: cat.c includes
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 02:07:25PM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Nick ! wrote: > > > On 3/19/07, hiren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > hi all, > > > > > > i found it interesting that cat.c compiles after removing these > > > includes: > > > > > > #include > > > #include > > > #include > > > #include > > > #include > > > > > > im just curious to hear opinions and learn something ;) > > > > That's probably because all these files are implicitly included by > > some other include files. However, it is more correct to keep them all > > here explicitly because cat.c uses them directly; you should want > > someone reading the code to have a list of 'libraries' it relies on. > > > > Good question. > > Compile with -Wall and draw your conclusions. > > While it's legal to call a undeclared function, it is not wise to do > so. Let me guess, that guy is running on i386. Usually, this kind of stunt works badly on fun arches like alpha or sparc64...
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 04:19:11PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > We can analogically use this argument for ocassional errors in memory, too. If "We" can, but "we" won't. Yes, the GCC bugs should be fixed. Yes, it's important to communicate with the GCC people that -O2 breaks things sometimes. This is a separate issue from producing code that works right in the real world, which is where MY code has to run. If there are memory errors nothing else will run, either. If I report an error, do I sit around and not write code until it's fixed? Or do I continue to write broken code and tell the users it's not my fault? You're being stupid arguing things like that. How many more people are going to have to tell you? -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: Google's Perftools and tcmalloc - Worth the risk?
Tobias Weingartner wrote: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Richard Wilson wrote: I dunno. Am I being overly paranoid, or should I stick with nice dependable old-fashioned malloc? I usually take dependable and slightly slower over faster and nastier any day. Especially if it's fast enough. Optimally, you could switch between allocators as a compile-time define. Use a tougher allocator for debugging and stress testing. Use a lighter, faster one in situations where you are confident that the code is solid and needs speed more than bullet-resistance. In a perfect world, you would always have enough power to run the bulletproof allocator. In the real world, that might mean 25% (statistic chosen randomly) more server farm horsepower. Good, fast, cheap. Pick any two. -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson | Xenon @ 3D Nature | http://www.3DNature.com/ "I set the wheels in motion, turn up all the machines, activate the programs, and run behind the scenes. I set the clouds in motion, turn up light and sound, activate the window, and watch the world go 'round." -Prime Mover, Rush.
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
Are you looking to make the DNS server a caching-only DNS server or are you going to have be authoritative for a domain (or set of domains?) (If you don't know the answer to this question then any 'examples' are going to be lost on the ignorant... no offense, you should understand this before delving further if you are truly going to take responsibility for it.) My guess is that you are looking for a simple caching-only DNS server... but this page lists a variety of different examples with lots of notation- http://www.zytrax.com/books/dns/ch6/ Here's another from my Google query ;) - http://www.isc.org/sw/bind/arm94/Bv9ARM.ch03.html - from the people that wrote the software, and the page that the openbsd named man page is referring to. The rest of the manual is pretty nifty, too. Next time, friend, please do your own Googling first, danno -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JOHN LUCKEY Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:34 AM To: misc openBSD Subject: DNS, bind9, and other Anyone have or know of a good beginner's tutorial on how to setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network? The more concrete/cookbook the examples, the better. TIA John
Re: acx on soekris with openbsd 4.0
On 2007/03/19 11:14, Steve Glaus wrote: > I'm trying to get a mini pci card working on OpenBSD 4.0. I ripped this > card out of a dlink router that we weren't using. From what I understand > it's supposed to use the acx driver. Knowing that minipci can be fiddly, I would double-check it's inserted correctly; it's not listed at all in dmesg and this... > "NS \M-[C1100 SMI" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 18 function 1 not configured ...looks a bit odd.
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Yeah but what die is he rolling? I'm tired of rolling a six-sided die against blobs and hobgoblins when all the level 23 developer-clerics are using a 20-sided die... simply not fair!!! danno -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco Peereboom Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 11:00 AM To: Jason George Cc: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy Not if he makes his saving throw! I bet you he has a cloak of infinite karma too. So not hit-points lost! On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:57:58AM +, Jason George wrote: > >Hi, > > > >this is the conversation I had with Theo: > > > You just made private emails public, almost certainly without the permission > of the other parties involved. > > Please deduct any and all karma points you thought you had.
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Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
In epistula a Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:00:49 +0100: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 09:26:56AM -0400, Nick ! wrote: > > On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 10:06:43PM +0100, Joachim Schipper wrote: > > >> > > >> Aggressive compiler optimizations are not generally a good idea. > > >> The developers believe they are an unnecessary source of bugs, > > >> and since > > > > > >I would like to point out here that the idea of optimization is > > >that an equivalent code that executes faster is produced. > > >Optimizations don't permit generating code that is not equivalent, > > >unless specifically stated in the flag description (-ffast-math). > > > > > >It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check > > >whether the > > >result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the > > >optimizations that > > >are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. > > > > But the practical fact is that GCC has these bugs and so > > optimizations are an unnecessary source of bugs. > > But the proper way to handle these bugs is not work around them, but > report them to the GCC developer so they can fix it. Otherwise we'll > never get rid of them. > > CL< http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=30785 no comment required, as 'it rains outside -- you get wet'. ;D
Re: No Blob without Puffy
In epistula a Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:27:29 +0100: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 11:35:14AM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote: > > * SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]: > > > Free as in FreeBSD > > > > ahh, I finally get it. > > > > dry like water > > hot like ice > > free like freebsd > > FreeBSD is released under BSD licence and therefore is free software, > see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software > > CL< ah, then Wikipedia's definition of 'free' is wrong. The US is a democracy, isn't it? does the majority back the Iraq invasion? :) FreeBSD may be -- as GNU/Linux -- 'free as in beer', you can get it (almost) for free (you have to pay your DSL line/electricity to download it, or media and shipping, etc). But try to brew your own beer -- then GNU/Linux and FreeBSD biogenetic engineers will teach you what 'freedom' is. SCNR
OpenBGPD and private-as
Might be a dumb question, but what's the equivalent of neighbor remove-private-as in OpenBGPD I've just noticed we're advertising prefixes 65xxx to our upstream providers when we should be stripping them from our advertisements. -- Jon Morby FidoNet Registration Services Ltd tel: 0845 004 3050 / fax: 0845 004 3051 web: http://www.fido.net/
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
In epistula a Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:59:06 +0100: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 09:15:16AM -0400, Jason Beaudoin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> Everything is much slower than existing Linux system. For > > >> example, Firefox takes 3-5 seconds to start on Linux but ~10 > > >> seconds on OpenBSD on same machine! > > > > > >I have the same problem. The FFS doesn't seem to be as fast as > > >ext2. > > > > > > The issue is not filesystem speed, but rather prelinking and the > > differences in how libraries are loaded. Trying comparing transfer > > times for a given set of (differing) files on both filesystems.. > > I have also a feeling that deleting huge files or large directories > with loads of tiny files in subdirectories is slower. > > CL< Y slower than JFS2, XFS, ext3 or X than ReiserFS 4, HPFS or what? 'feeling'? huh? this is about zeroes and ones, or what happened to IT?
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
>> > It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether >> > the >> > result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations >> > that >> > are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. >> >> But if you write a program and the user finds it full of bugs, are they >> going to care that you can say that it's GCC's fault? The burden falls > >When I write a program then I specify the language - say ISO/IEC 9899:1999. If >the compiler is buggy then it doesn't conform to ISO/IEC 9899:1999 - the >compiled program behaviour breaches the ISO/IEC 9899:1999 spec. Then it's the >user's problem that he compiled with a compiler that doesn't meet requirements >I clearly stated. I remember back in university there were computing assignments where 50% of the marks were whether or not the program compiled or not. There were lots of student submissions that came in syntactically-correct, compiled but did not solve the actual problem that was the purpose of the assignment. 50% guaranteed rate of return on basically no effort? That's what the economics students might call an "optimization", especially so if you knew that the prof or TA wasn't going to look at the source. Make the program core out immediately after execution and they'd optimize their own time, give you the 50% and move on. So following in that line of thought, what about bugs that are procedural in nature but are otherwise syntactically-correct? Just because code compiles doesn't mean that it isn't wrong because of the methods used to come up with it... Since I answered my own rhetorical question, no one else needs to respond. Man, the signal-to-noise ratio of this list sure is bad lately
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
Marco Peereboom wrote: If you like losing data ext3 and reiserfs work just fine. I manage to lose Linux installations pretty often by doing crazy things like rebooting. On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:41:05PM +0100, RedShift wrote: Claudio Jeker wrote: On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:48:44PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 12:36:00PM -0500, R. Fumione wrote: Hello, I am using OpenBSD on server since few years now, and I am very happy with it's easy maintenance and it's stability. I want to try on desktop, and I am having trouble. Everything is much slower than existing Linux system. For example, Firefox takes 3-5 seconds to start on Linux but ~10 seconds on OpenBSD on same machine! I have the same problem. The FFS doesn't seem to be as fast as ext2. On the other hand I never lost data on ffs while a crashing linux box likes to eat up file systems. If you like to get ext2 speed just mount your filesystems async and hope for the best (that's what linux is doing). That's what transactional filesystems like ext3 and reiserfs are for. I can highly recommend reiserfs. Glenn Do you have some evidence to back up your pretty bold statement?
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
"JOHN LUCKEY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network? > The more concrete/cookbook the examples, the better. Assuming that you don't need dynamic updates, Dan Bernstein has EXACT guidelines for his djbdns: http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html Look for "How to run a DNS server". Regards, Frank
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Hi Pawel, Pawel Jakub Dawidek schrieb am Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:02:47PM +0100: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: >> So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed >> by projects which embrace the Blob? > So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD > license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code? > How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? Why do you lie to > your users by having 'BSD' in operating system's name? Your analogy does not apply at all: - The proclaimed aim of the 'No blobs!' campaign is getting hardware documentation, thus ultimately enabling all free operating systems to become or remain blob-free: So it is about abolishing blobs. It is not just about the personal opinion whether blobs are free enough or about the personal choice whether to use blobs or not. A hardware manufacturer pressing blobs on his client is disrespectful with respect to his clients. An operating system shipping with the blobs enabled is endangering its users, and it is encouraging vendors to ship blobs. - There is no 'No GPL!' campaign whatsoever. I'm not aware of any plans to get all free software GPL-free. Or to abolish GPL code. To the contrary, i do remember Theo acknowledging that he is building on RMS' and other's work, and that it will stay like that for now, if not for good. A full, working toolchain is not easily dismissed without good reason. Indeed many of the OpenBSD developers hold the opinion that the GPL is not free enough and personally choose to use an other license for their code. But that's all there is to it. A software author writing GPL code is not being disrespectful againt anybody (though he could make his code more useful with a less contorted license). An operating system being built on a GNU toolchain is not endangering its users. Please try to not view conflicts in a "fried and enemy"-style, but take care to precisely address the point at hand. Yours, Ingo
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:33:42AM -0700, JOHN LUCKEY wrote:
> Anyone have or know of a good beginner's tutorial on how to
> setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network?
> The more concrete/cookbook the examples, the better.
Sure, I have that exact setup running. I've pasted a slightly anonymized
version at the end. There are many tools and tutorials for writing zone
files, so I'll assume you can find those yourself.
This, of course, uses BIND. There are other DNS servers, but BIND
doesn't suck too badly, is well-tested, and is in base.
Joachim
/var/named/etc/named.conf:
acl local {
127.0.0.0/8;
192.168.0.0/24;
::1;
}
acl othernet {
192.168.1.0/24;
}
options {
version ""; // remove this to allow version queries
listen-on{ local; othernet; }
listen-on-v6 { local; othernet; }
# Limit access
allow-recursion { local; };
allow-query { local; othernet; };
allow-transfer { local; };
# Don't allow too many lookups at once, and limit memory usage
recursive-clients 100;
max-cache-size 48M;
# Explicitly set hostname
hostname "myhostname";
# Ask the ISP nameservers first; they are close,
# network-topology wise, and why not let them do most of our
# caching for us?
forwarders { $IP_DNS_SERVER1; $IP_DNS_SERVER2; };
};
logging {
category lame-servers { null; };
};
// Standard zones
//
zone "." {
type hint;
file "standard/root.hint";
};
zone "localhost" {
type master;
file "standard/localhost";
allow-transfer { localhost; };
};
zone "127.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "standard/loopback";
allow-transfer { localhost; };
};
zone
"0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.ip6.arpa"
{
type master;
file "standard/loopback6.arpa";
allow-transfer { localhost; };
};
zone "com" {
type delegation-only;
};
zone "net" {
type delegation-only;
};
// Master zones
//
//zone "myzone.net" {
// type master;
// file "master/myzone.net";
//};
zone "local.net" {
type master;
file "master/local.net";
};
// Reverse DNS, adapt this to whatever your local net is
zone "0.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "master/0.168.192-in-addr.arpa";
};
Re: No Blob without Puffy
In epistula a Pawel Jakub Dawidek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:02:47 +0100: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed > > by projects which embrace the Blob? > > So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD > license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code? > How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? Why do you lie > to your users by having 'BSD' in operating system's name? > > I'm sure you get the point, but I'm also sure you won't admit it. > Anyway, I just had to do it, because... > > > Daniel Seuffert got very angry, and instead of removing operating > > systems which are pro-Blob from an anti-Blob posted, they instead > > deleted us. > > > > Isn't that just incredible? > > The only incredible thing I find in this thread is how easy for you is > to insult such a great BSD advocate as Daniel Seuffert is. did i miss the tags here? Daniel Seuffert shoots himself as well as others, both sympathising and not sympathising people, into the foot. mid-term as well as long-term. so where's the 'great BSD advocate'? is everything here *(-1)? > PS. This e-mail is for Theo. The only reason I'm sending it to the > list is to publicly support Daniel, who is doing a great job for BSD > systems in many areas. Feel free not to respond. i felt more than *FREE* (in the *real* sense of freedom) to respond. and i see the need for spam filters to get some algorithms to react to nonsense, too. in the sense of freedom, FreeBSD (among others) is a ultra-cheap whore, as this fat pengiun is. accept it and live with it, or leave crying. nobody will care. > -- > Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org > FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am!
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:23:43AM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:53:00PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether > > > the > > > result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations > > > that > > > are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. > > > > But if you write a program and the user finds it full of bugs, are they > > going to care that you can say that it's GCC's fault? The burden falls > > When I write a program then I specify the language - say ISO/IEC 9899:1999. If > the compiler is buggy then it doesn't conform to ISO/IEC 9899:1999 - the > compiled program behaviour breaches the ISO/IEC 9899:1999 spec. Then it's the > user's problem that he compiled with a compiler that doesn't meet requirements > I clearly stated. Can you please try to loudly say: "I think, therefore I am"? //art
acx on soekris with openbsd 4.0 - Re-post
Sorry, I've asked this before and didn't get a response.. am I asking
this incorrectly - or in the wrong place?
Hello all,
I'm trying to get a mini pci card working on OpenBSD 4.0. I ripped this
card out of a dlink router that we weren't using. From what I understand
it's supposed to use the acx driver.
When I try to do an 'ifconfig acx0 up' it gives me 'Device no configured'
I'm assuming that this is because OpenBSD didn't detect the card. I
scoured the dmesg output but didn't find anything that looks like a
wireless card. I'm not overly familiar with the way openbsd handles
hardware so is there a way to 'force' openbsd to find the card?
I've already installed the firmware as specified in the man-page, but I
don't know where to go from here..
I have a feeling I'm SOL with this card
Thanks!
I've appended the dmesg output in case there's something I'm missing:
OpenBSD 4.0 (GENERIC) #1107: Sat Sep 16 19:15:58 MDT 2006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by Nataonal Semi ("Geode by NSC"
586-class) 267 MHz
cpu0: FPU,TSC,MSR,CX8,CMOV,MMX
cpu0: TSC disabled
real mem = 268005376 (261724K)
avail mem = 236724224 (231176K)
using 3297 buffers containing 13504512 bytes (13188K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 20/50/29, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xf7840
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.0 @ 0xf/0x1
pcibios0: pcibios_get_intr_routing - function not supported
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing information unavailable.
pcibios0: PCI bus #0 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc8000/0x9000
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Cyrix GXm PCI" rev 0x00
sis0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a0
nsphyter0 at sis0 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis1 at pci0 dev 7 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a1
nsphyter1 at sis1 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis2 at pci0 dev 8 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a2
nsphyter2 at sis2 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
gscpcib0 at pci0 dev 18 function 0 "NS SC1100 ISA" rev 0x00
gpio0 at gscpcib0: 64 pins
"NS \M-[C1100 SMI" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 18 function 1 not configured
pciide0 at pci0 dev 18 function 2 "NS SCx200 IDE" rev 0x01: DMA, channel
0 wired to compatibility, channel 1 wired to compatibility
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0:
wd0: 1-sector PIO, LBA, 1946MB, 3985632 sectors
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4
geodesc0 at pci0 dev 18 function 5 "NS SC1100 X-Bus" rev 0x00: iid 6
revision 3 wdstatus 0
ohci0 at pci0 dev 19 function 0 "Compaq USB OpenHost" rev 0x08: irq 11,
version 1.0, legacy support
usb0 at ohci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0
uhub0: Compaq OHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub0: 3 ports with 3 removable, self powered
isa0 at gscpcib0
isadma0 at isa0
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot
wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard
pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61
midi0 at pcppi0:
spkr0 at pcppi0
nsclpcsio0 at isa0 port 0x2e/2: NSC PC87366 rev 9: GPIO VLM TMS
gpio1 at nsclpcsio0: 29 pins
gscsio0 at isa0 port 0x15c/2: SC1100 SIO rev 1:
npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: using exception 16
pccom0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
pccom0: console
pccom1 at isa0 port 0x2f8/8 irq 3: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
biomask fbe5 netmask ffe5 ttymask ffe7
pctr: no performance counters in CPU
dkcsum: wd0 matches BIOS drive 0x80
root on wd0a
rootdev=0x0 rrootdev=0x300 rawdev=0x302
syncing disks... done
OpenBSD 4.0 (GENERIC) #1107: Sat Sep 16 19:15:58 MDT 2006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by National Semi ("Geode by NSC"
586-class) 267 MHz
cpu0: FPU,TSC,MSR,CX8,CMOV,MMX
cpu0: TSC disabled
real mem = 268005376 (261724K)
avail mem = 236724224 (231176K)
using 3297 buffers containing 13504512 bytes (13188K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 20/50/29, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xf7840
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.0 @ 0xf/0x1
pcibios0: pcibios_get_intr_routing - function not supported
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing information unavailable.
pcibios0: PCI bus #0 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc8000/0x9000
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Cyrix GXm PCI" rev 0x00
sis0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a0
nsphyter0 at sis0 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis1 at pci0 dev 7 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a1
nsphyter1 at sis1 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis2 at pci0 dev 8 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a2
nsphyter2 at sis2 phy 0: DP83815 10/1p0 PHY, rev. 1
gscpcib0 at pci0 dev 18 function 0 "NS SC1100 ISA" rev 0x00
gpio
Re: No Blob without Puffy
>Jason George wrote: > >> This was sabre-rattling. Daniel made a pre-emptive tactical strike. >> There's a big difference. > >No, there's not a difference. Theo said he was willing to take the >emails public; this Daniel guy took him at his word, and made them >public. The only foul I see is Theo threatening to take Daniel's emails >public in the first place. No, you should re-read the thread. Willingness to release emails is significantly different that actually releasing. The willingness to use a tactical nuclear weapon on an adversarial nation state is significantly different that actually pushing the button to launch said device. The exposed willingness and the clout to back it up is invariably meant to cause the other side to back down. Yes, it is clearly a scare tactic. There's a fundamental concept in negotiations and it's allowing the other party to opportunity to save face. This happens all the time in business, legal and geopolitical discussions. Even the most hardcore lawyers and diplomats know this. Daniel's immediate out was to either not release the poster or to use other language in the promotion of his cause. That was his opportunity to save face. He chose not to try to negotiate to a compromised solution when clearly his tack was going to have a negative impact on at least one other party.
Re: No Blob without Puffy
In epistula a Matthew Weigel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:54:24 -0500: > Jason George wrote: > > > This was sabre-rattling. Daniel made a pre-emptive tactical strike. > > There's a big difference. > > No, there's not a difference. Theo said he was willing to take the > emails public; this Daniel guy took him at his word, and made them > public. The only foul I see is Theo threatening to take Daniel's > emails public in the first place. there really *was* (in ancient times? where the term 'politician' was not an insult?) and should be a difference. people with a total lack of so called 'soft skills' won't see them, tho, but that is neither Theo's problem nor anyone else's. > -- > Matthew Weigel > hacker > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
acx on soekris with openbsd 4.0
Sorry, I've asked this before and didn't get a response.. am I asking
this incorrectly - or in the wrong place?
Hello all,
I'm trying to get a mini pci card working on OpenBSD 4.0. I ripped this
card out of a dlink router that we weren't using. From what I understand
it's supposed to use the acx driver.
When I try to do an 'ifconfig acx0 up' it gives me 'Device no configured'
I'm assuming that this is because OpenBSD didn't detect the card. I
scoured the dmesg output but didn't find anything that looks like a
wireless card. I'm not overly familiar with the way openbsd handles
hardware so is there a way to 'force' openbsd to find the card?
I've already installed the firmware as specified in the man-page, but I
don't know where to go from here..
I have a feeling I'm SOL with this card
Thanks!
I've appended the dmesg output in case there's something I'm missing:
OpenBSD 4.0 (GENERIC) #1107: Sat Sep 16 19:15:58 MDT 2006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by Nataonal Semi ("Geode by NSC"
586-class) 267 MHz
cpu0: FPU,TSC,MSR,CX8,CMOV,MMX
cpu0: TSC disabled
real mem = 268005376 (261724K)
avail mem = 236724224 (231176K)
using 3297 buffers containing 13504512 bytes (13188K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 20/50/29, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xf7840
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.0 @ 0xf/0x1
pcibios0: pcibios_get_intr_routing - function not supported
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing information unavailable.
pcibios0: PCI bus #0 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc8000/0x9000
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Cyrix GXm PCI" rev 0x00
sis0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a0
nsphyter0 at sis0 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis1 at pci0 dev 7 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a1
nsphyter1 at sis1 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis2 at pci0 dev 8 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a2
nsphyter2 at sis2 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
gscpcib0 at pci0 dev 18 function 0 "NS SC1100 ISA" rev 0x00
gpio0 at gscpcib0: 64 pins
"NS \M-[C1100 SMI" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 18 function 1 not configured
pciide0 at pci0 dev 18 function 2 "NS SCx200 IDE" rev 0x01: DMA, channel
0 wired to compatibility, channel 1 wired to compatibility
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0:
wd0: 1-sector PIO, LBA, 1946MB, 3985632 sectors
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4
geodesc0 at pci0 dev 18 function 5 "NS SC1100 X-Bus" rev 0x00: iid 6
revision 3 wdstatus 0
ohci0 at pci0 dev 19 function 0 "Compaq USB OpenHost" rev 0x08: irq 11,
version 1.0, legacy support
usb0 at ohci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0
uhub0: Compaq OHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub0: 3 ports with 3 removable, self powered
isa0 at gscpcib0
isadma0 at isa0
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot
wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard
pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61
midi0 at pcppi0:
spkr0 at pcppi0
nsclpcsio0 at isa0 port 0x2e/2: NSC PC87366 rev 9: GPIO VLM TMS
gpio1 at nsclpcsio0: 29 pins
gscsio0 at isa0 port 0x15c/2: SC1100 SIO rev 1:
npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: using exception 16
pccom0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
pccom0: console
pccom1 at isa0 port 0x2f8/8 irq 3: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
biomask fbe5 netmask ffe5 ttymask ffe7
pctr: no performance counters in CPU
dkcsum: wd0 matches BIOS drive 0x80
root on wd0a
rootdev=0x0 rrootdev=0x300 rawdev=0x302
syncing disks... done
OpenBSD 4.0 (GENERIC) #1107: Sat Sep 16 19:15:58 MDT 2006
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by National Semi ("Geode by NSC"
586-class) 267 MHz
cpu0: FPU,TSC,MSR,CX8,CMOV,MMX
cpu0: TSC disabled
real mem = 268005376 (261724K)
avail mem = 236724224 (231176K)
using 3297 buffers containing 13504512 bytes (13188K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 20/50/29, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xf7840
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.0 @ 0xf/0x1
pcibios0: pcibios_get_intr_routing - function not supported
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing information unavailable.
pcibios0: PCI bus #0 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc8000/0x9000
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Cyrix GXm PCI" rev 0x00
sis0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a0
nsphyter0 at sis0 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis1 at pci0 dev 7 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a1
nsphyter1 at sis1 phy 0: DP83815 10/100 PHY, rev. 1
sis2 at pci0 dev 8 function 0 "NS DP83815 10/100" rev 0x00, DP83816A:
irq 10, address 00:00:24:c8:01:a2
nsphyter2 at sis2 phy 0: DP83815 10/1p0 PHY, rev. 1
gscpcib0 at pci0 dev 18 function 0 "NS SC1100 ISA" rev 0x00
gpi
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FreeBSD is released under BSD licence and therefore is free software, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software where is the source to the "free software" nvidia driver?
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
In epistula a Manuel Ravasio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:47:46 -0700 (PDT): > Really? > I have a completely different experience: I never managed to > completely loose a filesystem, except by on OpenBSD... > > I've been using slackware linux on reiserfs and xfs for many years > now, on my home PCs and company laptop (so, no real production > environment) and I'm happy with both their speed and reliability. I > caused many crashes, mostly by suddenly turning the PCs off in the > middle of data transfer and I never lost a single file. > Recently I decided to give OpenBSD a try, just to taste something > different, and I'm really enthusiastic about it as > firewall/proxy/DNS/DHCP server as well as desktop environment for my > laptop. I really love the solidity and internal coherence of the > system, its ease of management and the general impression of "good, > old, solid computing for real men" that most current linux > distributions completely lack (that's why I stick to slackware :-) ). > > The only shortcomings I found up to now are FFS fragility with > respect to sudden poweroffs (I've already lost root filesystem twice, > beyond fsck recovery capabilities, so I had to reinstall/restore from > scratch), and a general sluggishness of X11 lacking DRI support. > > Probably it all depends on my lack of experience, so maybe my boxes > are far from perfectly tuned up; I hope that spending more and more > time tampering with OpenBSD and following this mailing list, I will > eventually get proficient enough to tune up my systems as well as I > got to do with linux :-) . > > > Thank you all, > byee > > Manuel interestingly, i just had an experience at a customer's site i want to share in this respect: they use *cough* GNU/Linux *cough*, RHEL. and XFS. XFS is pretty cool. however, they lost data. but it was not only about 'losing' data, it was about a hidden data loss. some data was lost, some not. some had weird ctime, some not. this is surely thanks to the most perfect implementation of an *opened* FS (here: XFS) by the GNU/Linux guys. pretty well done. what happened? a server had a backplane crash, an externally mounted XFS volume was shut down 'unclean'. although it was not that big (<1TByte), the desaster happened. in more than ten years of using IRIX (and thusly, XFS) i never lost one single sucking file. :)
Re: No Blob without Puffy
Pawel Jakub Dawidek wrote: On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed by projects which embrace the Blob? So isn't it rather hypocritical to claim GPL license is bad and BSD license is good and ship operating system with GPLed code? How do you feel about having pro-GPL operating system? Why do you lie to your users by having 'BSD' in operating system's name? I'm sure you get the point, but I'm also sure you won't admit it. Anyway, I just had to do it, because... wow, this is an unbelievably dumb statement. the whole obsession with the drivers as opposed to the userland stuff is due to the extent to which an exploit can run amok. if you don't trust some GPL userland code, you can systrace it, etc, and be relatively sure you're not going to get blasted. this is why you don't hear ppl ranting about GPL code in the packages, etc. your whole analogy is irrelevant. Daniel Seuffert got very angry, and instead of removing operating systems which are pro-Blob from an anti-Blob posted, they instead deleted us. Isn't that just incredible? The only incredible thing I find in this thread is how easy for you is to insult such a great BSD advocate as Daniel Seuffert is. PS. This e-mail is for Theo. The only reason I'm sending it to the list is to publicly support Daniel, who is doing a great job for BSD systems in many areas. Feel free not to respond. nobody is questioning how great a BSD advocate Daniel is, only that his effort with this poster and the related advocacy is deeply flawed. to include OSes on such a poster which foster continued blob generation is absurd. nobody's perfect and this happens to have been a mistake on Daniel's part, IMO. -- Pawel Jakub Dawidek http://www.wheel.pl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FreeBSD.org FreeBSD committer Am I Evil? Yes, I Am! [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: Google's Perftools and tcmalloc - Worth the risk?
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Richard Wilson wrote: > > I dunno. Am I being overly paranoid, or should I stick with nice > dependable old-fashioned malloc? I usually take dependable and slightly slower over faster and nastier any day. Especially if it's fast enough. -- [100~Plax]sb16i0A2172656B63616820636420726568746F6E61207473754A[dZ1!=b]salax
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 09:26:56AM -0400, Nick ! wrote: > On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 10:06:43PM +0100, Joachim Schipper wrote: > >> > >> Aggressive compiler optimizations are not generally a good idea. The > >> developers believe they are an unnecessary source of bugs, and since > > > >It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether > >the > >result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations > >that > >are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. > > But the practical fact is that GCC has these bugs and so optimizations > are an unnecessary source of bugs. But the proper way to handle these bugs is not work around them, but report them to the GCC developer so they can fix it. Otherwise we'll never get rid of them. I agree, but in the meantime we have to make do. -Nick
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:23:43AM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:53:00PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether the > > result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations that > > are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. > > But if you write a program and the user finds it full of bugs, are they > going to care that you can say that it's GCC's fault? The burden falls > on the developers to make code that works, including working around > problems in the compiler. Sad, but true. We can analogically use this argument for ocassional errors in memory, too. If I write a program and the user finds it crashing all the time, are they going to care that you can say that their hardware may be unstable? OpenBSD then should be written with Hamming, Golay, or Reed-Solomon codes in all the internal structures, to automatically recover from flipped bits in data structures. Similar protection should be done to the code. The code should be periodically CRC-ed and the process image snapshotted. If it were revealed the code is corrupted, a rollback would be done and the process restarted. CL< > > -- > Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ > http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 05:42:26PM +0200, Gregory Edigarov wrote: > JOHN LUCKEY wrote: > >Anyone have or know of a good beginner's tutorial on how to > >setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network? > >The more concrete/cookbook the examples, the better. > > > > > It isn't different from any UNIX system with BIND. So just google for > the words "dns howto", links to tldp.org site should satisfy you. Hi, John! And, as usual for OpenBSD, you can find out a lot without leaving your own computer. Besides the man pages (which have perhaps more info than a beginner is looking for), there are the stock config files in /var/named/etc/ to work from. Out of the box they'll give you a caching name server, and have examples (commented out) for both master and slave zones. To get it started on boot: # echo named_flags= >> /etc/rc.conf.local Then have your dhcp server give out the right address to clients. Besides web tutorials, there's the ORA book "DNS & BIND" and others. -- Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
If you like losing data ext3 and reiserfs work just fine. I manage to lose Linux installations pretty often by doing crazy things like rebooting. On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:41:05PM +0100, RedShift wrote: > Claudio Jeker wrote: > >On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:48:44PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > >>On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 12:36:00PM -0500, R. Fumione wrote: > >>>Hello, > >>> > >>>I am using OpenBSD on server since few years now, and I am very happy > >>>with it's easy maintenance and it's stability. I want to try on > >>>desktop, and I am having trouble. > >>> > >>>Everything is much slower than existing Linux system. For example, > >>>Firefox takes 3-5 seconds to start on Linux but ~10 seconds on > >>>OpenBSD on same machine! > >>I have the same problem. The FFS doesn't seem to be as fast as ext2. > >> > > > >On the other hand I never lost data on ffs while a crashing linux box > >likes to eat up file systems. If you like to get ext2 speed just mount > >your filesystems async and hope for the best (that's what linux is doing). > > > > That's what transactional filesystems like ext3 and reiserfs are for. I > can highly recommend reiserfs. > > Glenn
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have also a feeling that deleting huge files or large directories with loads of tiny files in subdirectories is slower. A "feeling"?? Entirely subjective readings like this mean nothing and are at best noise and at worst FUD. Come on, be scientific now. Stop trolling. -Nick
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
On 3/19/07, JOHN LUCKEY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Anyone have or know of a good beginner's tutorial on how to setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network? The more concrete/cookbook the examples, the better. TIA John an unofficial source, but it was very usefull to me.. http://www.kernel-panic.it/openbsd/dns/ Mispunt
Re: No Blob without Puffy
** Reply to message from Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:04:46 +0100 >On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote: > >I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require >us to use a blob but we'll ocassionally use them when we have to other way", >while Theo means "I don't want vendors to require us to use a blob and I refuse >to use them even when no other way". > >And that the heated words stem from the subtle difference. Politics instead of >developing. It's the vendors who decide about the blobs and they may or may not >take your complaints into account. Your invested time may or may not return. You've left out the extremely important fact that many vendors interpret acceptance of blobs by any "free" OS as validating their position of not releasing adequate documentation -- so accepting blobs (even when "there's no other choice") actively harms the anti-blob campaign. Dave -- Dave Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
multichannel sound
Hi, FreeBSD sysctl supports hw.snd.pcm0.vchans and hw.snd.maxautovchans. With this variables user may hear sound from many apps at one time. How I can do this in OpenBSD. My friend says that this possible only when current app link with lossaudio(3). Maybe there is another way? Sorry for my English. my audio device is azalia0: host: High Definition Audio rev. 1.0 azalia0: codec: Realtek ALC882 (rev. 1.1), HDA version 1.0 audio0 at azalia0 my OpenBSD version is 4.1-current GENERIC.MP i386
Re: Have a OpenBSD store in Asia? Is it possible?
Hey Michael, > I use OpenBSD from 3.6, when every release is pre-ordered, i can't find a > easy way to > own a set. > > I live in China, Is it possible to have a OpenBSD store in Asia? > China? Japan? Korean? or other coutries? Did you contact http://www.genesis.com.hk/ in Hong Kong? Or should we remove them from the list of resellers? Their website looks like they've been taken over by a US webfarmer. I've sent CDs via regular mail to China before but never got a confirmation if they ever made it through customs. Your best bet is to have one shipped from Canada: https://https.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/order With kind regards, Wim. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= https://kd85.com/notforsale.html --
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
JOHN LUCKEY wrote: Anyone have or know of a good beginner's tutorial on how to setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network? The more concrete/cookbook the examples, the better. bind is part of the base system @ OpenBSD (default install). These manuals should help. man named man named.conf BIND 9 Adminstrators Reference Manual. Google for them. -- Adam PAPAI D i g i t a l Influence http://www.digitalinfluence.hu E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +36 30 33-55-735 (Hungary)
Re: DNS, bind9, and other
On 03/19/07 at 7:33, JOHN LUCKEY wrote: >Anyone have or know of a good beginner's tutorial on how to >setup/configure a openBSD box to do DNS on a local network? >The more concrete/cookbook the examples, the better. http://www.kernel-panic.it/openbsd/dns/index.html
Re: No Blob without Puffy
You are so uninformed that it isn't even funny to pick on you. On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 03:04:46PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote: > > I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require > us to use a blob but we'll ocassionally use them when we have to other way", > while Theo means "I don't want vendors to require us to use a blob and I > refuse > to use them even when no other way". > > And that the heated words stem from the subtle difference. Politics instead of > developing. It's the vendors who decide about the blobs and they may or may > not > take your complaints into account. Your invested time may or may not return. > > If you don't like the blobs, here are the tools to get rid of them: > > http://geda.seul.org/tools/gschem/index.html > http://geda.seul.org/tools/pcb/index.html > http://datasheetarchive.com/ > http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html > http://www.brlcad.org/ > > There's not really much difference between writing software or writing > hardware, it's merely a psychological barrier, software hackers are scared of > tampering with hardware because they are not used to. The costs of prototypes > are negligible compared to the cost of time involved - and this time is high > both in software and hardware hacking. > > With these tools, your invested time will return for sure. > > CL< > > Hi, > > > > this is the conversation I had with Theo: > > > > 1. mail, 12.03.2007 01:29 > > > > Dear Theo, > > > > allBSD is currently prepairing for the Stop Blob! campaign > > an we have a poster ready here: > > > > http://www.allbsd.de/src/Kampagnen/StopBlob/StopBlob-en-Poster.pdf > > > > This is already translated into some languages, more are to come > > soon and I'm currently writing a flyer that will be translated > > too in as many languages as possible. > > > > Any objections/ideas? > > > > Best regadrs, > > > > Daniel > > > > > > 2. mail from Theo, 12.03.2007 02:34: > > > > I don't know why you are using a BSD daemon, when the two BSD's > > that use Daemon imagery are the ones that ACCEPT blobs, in particular, > > Sam Leffler's atheros driver. > > > > So I absolutely do not see how you think you can go stealing our > > campaign for your own use! > > > > WE are the only people of the ones that you claim to represent > > who are actually standing up for this issue. If you put those other > > project's names on there, that's unbelieveably disrespectful of > > our efforts. > > > > FreeBSD *specifically* has vendor drivers in it, and has developers > > who work at vendors. Not just Sam, but they also have an employee > > of NVidia who they consider a developer, and who now makes changes > > to the ethernet driver everyone got from us, without even replying > > to mails from our developers who wrote it! > > > > No. I entirely object to what you are doing here. You are trying > > to make it look like those other projects are anti-blob, when they > > are NOT. > > > > > > 3. mail from Theo, 12.03.2007 03:00: > > > > Did you even think about the fact that there are only two operating > > systems that ship without blobs? > > > > OpenBSD > > > > Debian (and derived systems) > > > > FreeBSD and NetBSD are not on the list of blob-less operating systems. > > Both of them ship with at least one blob, compiled directly into the > > kernel. Their developers have NEVER helped us fight for > > documentation, or fight the blob. They've made a couple vague words > > sometimes, but then gone back to their American ways and talked about > > the need to sometimes compromise. They have UNDERMINED our efforts to > > fight the blob, and now you want to include them in a poster about it? > > > > I think you are not thinking your campaign through very well at all. > > > > > > 4. mail from me to Theo, 13.03.2007 01:16: > > > > Theo de Raadt qrote: > > > > I don't know why you are using a BSD daemon, when the two BSD's > > > > that use Daemon imagery are the ones that ACCEPT blobs, in particular, > > > > Sam Leffler's atheros driver. > > > > > > > > So I absolutely do not see how you think you can go stealing our > > > > campaign for your own use! > > > > > > > > WE are the only people of the ones that you claim to represent > > > > who are actually standing up for this issue. If you put those other > > > > project's names on there, that's unbelieveably disrespectful of > > > > our efforts. > > > > > > > > FreeBSD *specifically* has vendor drivers in it, and has developers > > > > who work at vendors. Not just Sam, but they also have an employee > > > > of NVidia who they consider a developer, and who now makes changes > > > > to the ethernet driver everyone got from us, without even replying > > > > to mails from our developers who wrote it! > > > > > > > > No. I entirely object to what you are doing here. You are trying > > > > to make it look like those other projects are anti-blob, when they > >
