Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
We are all anxiously awaiting your diffs... On Tue, Jun 26, 2012, at 07:52 PM, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez wrote: Why is not possible to apply a new css style to the current site? That has nothing to do with joomla (and similar) and would keep the site fast and compatible with, let's saylynx or whatever browser do you want to try with the site. I mean, for me the site is ok but a new css style could be a great thing too. Same speed, same compatibility, new design. - Alvaro El 26/06/2012, a las 16:25, STeve Andre' escribió: On 06/26/12 17:57, Pablo Velasco Fernández wrote: I mean.. A modern style. El 26/06/2012 23:55, Miod Vallat m...@online.fr escribió: Hi. I was loolong the FreeBSD web page. And its a cool page with a cool desing. Maybe OpenBSD should change their own page to a most visual web page. ( Its only my opinion ) What do you think? Last time I checked, you could use eyes to browse the OpenBSD website. Why do you consider it non-visual? Miod OK, a modern style. But why? Why is it that a web site that does what web sites should do--convey information--have to be redesigned in order to keep up with other sites? I see this all the time, at work where people seem to think that things like Joomlacough are a good thing. I shouldn't say just work, as I see it everywhere. The OpenBSD site is simple and fast. I keep it in /usr/www which consumes 291M as of today. It's a great web site as it is. --STeve Andre' [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
ohh, just had a sleep and missed great propagated, essential improvements. No one cares 'bout design. No one wants to sell something with eyecandy. No one wants to do the work For what? Worldpeace? Annoying, bored L1nux users with limited reading selfreflection capabilities? In fact of telling people what THEY should/could do better: Do it or... There are enough people in the world who have great visions for other people. btw, openbsd.org look much more cooler, straighter than freebsd.org. At least in lynx(1). André
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On 2012-06-26 18:46, Pablo Velasco Fernández wrote: Hi. I was loolong the FreeBSD web page. And its a cool page with a cool desing. Maybe OpenBSD should change their own page to a most visual web page. ( Its only my opinion ) What do you think? The FreeBSD website seems optimized for really low resolution, and I've over 50% of my monitor covered in white margins. The OpenBSD website fills my monitor with lots of information. The idea of a large monitor, is, to be able to see more stuff on screen. Yet, on the other hand, it'll still work fine on lynx. I don't see how FreeBSD's is an improvement. -- Hugo Osvaldo Barrera
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Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Op Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:54:11 +0200 schreef Hugo Osvaldo Barrera h...@osvaldobarrera.com.ar: On 2012-06-26 18:46, Pablo Velasco Fernández wrote: Hi. I was loolong the FreeBSD web page. And its a cool page with a cool desing. Maybe OpenBSD should change their own page to a most visual web page. ( Its only my opinion ) What do you think? The FreeBSD website seems optimized for really low resolution, and I've over 50% of my monitor covered in white margins. The OpenBSD website fills my monitor with lots of information. The idea of a large monitor, is, to be able to see more stuff on screen. Yet, on the other hand, it'll still work fine on lynx. I don't see how FreeBSD's is an improvement. Smaller columns make speed reading easier. My browser windows don't all take up the whole width of my screen, and some of my browser tabs don't take up the whole width of the browser window it is in. -- Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/ (Remove the obvious prefix to reply privately.)
Re: 5.2-beta doesn't exit X and doesn't switch consoles
On 6/27/2012 12:28 AM, Tomas Bodzar wrote: Hi, on Dell E6320 with $ sysctl kern.version kern.version=OpenBSD 5.2-beta (GENERIC.MP) #331: Sun Jun 24 20:04:00 MDT 2012 dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP $ I have $ dmesg | grep vga vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel GT2+ Video rev 0x09 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) intagp0 at vga1 inteldrm0 at vga1: apic 2 int 16 $ and using default cwm withou .cwmrc started from .xinitrc via startx $ cat .xinitrc xsetroot -solid steelblue cwm $ No EE or WW (except of obvious info that for this sandybridge it will use VESA) in /var/log/Xorg.0.log and no issues in /var/log/messages. When I hit CMS-q in cwm screen goes just black and nothing more happens. I'm not back in console and can't switch consoles. All I can do is hit power button and ACPI will turn off computer. Relevant part in Xorg.0.log before and after hitting button: [33.706] PCH FDI RX PLL enable [33.740] PCH FDI TX PLL enable 801a2350 [33.780] Pipe enable [33.780] Plane enable [33.820] FDI_RX_IIR 0x100 [33.820] FDI train 1 done. [33.840] FDI_RX_IIR 0x200 [33.840] FDI train 2 done. [33.840] FDI train done [33.860] FDI TX link normal [33.880] transcoder enable [33.880] LUT load [33.880] DPMS on done [ 668.243] (II) UnloadModule: kbd [ 668.249] (II) UnloadModule: ws [ 668.261] PCH FDI RX PLL enable [ 668.299] PCH FDI TX PLL enable 801a2350 [ 668.339] Pipe enable [ 668.339] Plane enable [ 668.379] FDI_RX_IIR 0x100 [ 668.379] FDI train 1 done. [ 668.399] FDI_RX_IIR 0x200 [ 668.399] FDI train 2 done. [ 668.399] FDI train done [ 668.419] FDI TX link normal [ 668.439] transcoder enable [ 668.439] LUT load [ 668.439] DPMS on done [ 668.499] Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file. and if X running and want to switch to other consoles via CM-F1-Fx then I can see only black screen, but I'm not getting console. Only switch back to X works and my X is displayed again. Someone with similar symptoms? Known issue. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugsm=132461653904304w=2 ~Brian
Re: 5.2-beta doesn't exit X and doesn't switch consoles
On 2012 Jun 27 (Wed) at 06:28:06 +0200 (+0200), Tomas Bodzar wrote: :$ dmesg | grep vga NEVER EVER do this. ALWAYS show the full dmesg. -- Boren's Laws: (1) When in charge, ponder. (2) When in trouble, delegate. (3) When in doubt, mumble.
how to configure DHCP on trunk interfaces ?
Hello! it works for em0, if I put DHCP in hostname.em0 is it possible to do with trunk0 ? can anybody give working example ? Cheers, Ilya Shipitsin
Re: 5.2-beta doesn't exit X and doesn't switch consoles
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Peter Hessler phess...@theapt.org wrote: On 2012 Jun 27 (Wed) at 06:28:06 +0200 (+0200), Tomas Bodzar wrote: :$ dmesg | grep vga NEVER EVER do this. ALWAYS show the full dmesg. Sorry. My fault. Used shortcut as my dmesg from this laptop is in misc@ already from previous installs and there's not difference. But will updated that. Can't do now. -- Boren's Laws: (1) When in charge, ponder. (2) When in trouble, delegate. (3) When in doubt, mumble.
Re: 5.2-beta doesn't exit X and doesn't switch consoles
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Brian Callahan bcal...@devio.us wrote: On 6/27/2012 12:28 AM, Tomas Bodzar wrote: Hi, on Dell E6320 with $ sysctl kern.version kern.version=OpenBSD 5.2-beta (GENERIC.MP) #331: Sun Jun 24 20:04:00 MDT 2012 dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP $ I have $ dmesg | grep vga vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel GT2+ Video rev 0x09 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) intagp0 at vga1 inteldrm0 at vga1: apic 2 int 16 $ and using default cwm withou .cwmrc started from .xinitrc via startx $ cat .xinitrc xsetroot -solid steelblue cwm $ No EE or WW (except of obvious info that for this sandybridge it will use VESA) in /var/log/Xorg.0.log and no issues in /var/log/messages. When I hit CMS-q in cwm screen goes just black and nothing more happens. I'm not back in console and can't switch consoles. All I can do is hit power button and ACPI will turn off computer. Relevant part in Xorg.0.log before and after hitting button: [ 33.706] PCH FDI RX PLL enable [ 33.740] PCH FDI TX PLL enable 801a2350 [ 33.780] Pipe enable [ 33.780] Plane enable [ 33.820] FDI_RX_IIR 0x100 [ 33.820] FDI train 1 done. [ 33.840] FDI_RX_IIR 0x200 [ 33.840] FDI train 2 done. [ 33.840] FDI train done [ 33.860] FDI TX link normal [ 33.880] transcoder enable [ 33.880] LUT load [ 33.880] DPMS on done [ 668.243] (II) UnloadModule: kbd [ 668.249] (II) UnloadModule: ws [ 668.261] PCH FDI RX PLL enable [ 668.299] PCH FDI TX PLL enable 801a2350 [ 668.339] Pipe enable [ 668.339] Plane enable [ 668.379] FDI_RX_IIR 0x100 [ 668.379] FDI train 1 done. [ 668.399] FDI_RX_IIR 0x200 [ 668.399] FDI train 2 done. [ 668.399] FDI train done [ 668.419] FDI TX link normal [ 668.439] transcoder enable [ 668.439] LUT load [ 668.439] DPMS on done [ 668.499] Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file. and if X running and want to switch to other consoles via CM-F1-Fx then I can see only black screen, but I'm not getting console. Only switch back to X works and my X is displayed again. Someone with similar symptoms? Known issue. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugsm=132461653904304w=2 Fail. Was working just fine on this same laptop with 5.1-current with initial support for Sandybridge. Must be something else. ~Brian
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net writes: Duh, this is OpenBSD. We use banner `ftp -o - http://www.openbsd.org/` You mean: banner `lynx -dump http://www.openbsd.org/` -- Manuel Giraud
Re: how to configure DHCP on trunk interfaces ?
Here is an example from my netbook. # cat hostname.re0 up # cat hostname.urtwn0 nwid myAP \ wpakey myPassword up # cat hostname.trunk0 trunkproto failover trunkport re0 trunkport urtwn0 dhcp On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 05:04:26PM +0600, ??? wrote: Hello! it works for em0, if I put DHCP in hostname.em0 is it possible to do with trunk0 ? can anybody give working example ? Cheers, Ilya Shipitsin
Re: how to configure DHCP on trunk interfaces ?
$ cat /etc/hostname.trunk0 dhcp trunkport em0 trunkport iwn0 trunkproto failover Only annoyance is the iwn0 device doesn't attach to the trunk properly if I boot with the wifi hardware switch turned off. iwn0: radio is disabled by hardware switch On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 05:04:26PM +0600, �?л�?�? Шипи�?ин wrote: it works for em0, if I put DHCP in hostname.em0 is it possible to do with trunk0 ? can anybody give working example ?
Prestito Offerta Speciale
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Re: ipsec tunnel speeds
Hello,
I am just doing some IPsec performance tests on shiny new DL 380 G8 (CPU is
Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2643 @ 3.30GHz).
Here is the setup :
Two Optiplex - HP DL380 G8 - HP DL 380 G8 - Two Optiplex
Intel Gb NIC in every computer
All running 5.2-beta amd64 compiled yesterday
2x1gb trunk between the DL 380 g8
Max throughput is measured with tcpbench -n 10, max PPS is with
tcpbench -u
-B 64
I got those results :
Unencrypted :
Max thoughput : 1800 Mbps
Max PPS : 250 kpps
AES 256 :
Max thoughput : 410 Mbps
Max PPS : 70 kpps
AES 256 GCM :
Max thoughput : 570 Mbps
Max PPS : 95 kpps
AES 128 :
Max thoughput : 430 Mbps
Max PPS : 75 kpps
AES 128 GCM :
Max thoughput : 575 Mbps
Max PPS : 85 kpps
--
Cordialement,
Pierre BARDOU
-Message d'origine-
De : Mike Belopuhov [mailto:m...@crypt.org.ru]
Envoyé : mardi 26 juin 2012 14:39
À : Mark Romer
Cc : Ted Unangst; misc@openbsd.org; Ryan McBride
Objet : Re: ipsec tunnel speeds
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Mark Romer romesterm...@gmail.com wrote:
Great question Ted
Does anyone know the answer?
sure.
Thanks Mark
On Jun 22, 2012 12:58 PM, Ted Unangst t...@tedunangst.com wrote:
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 12:52, Ryan McBride wrote:
550Mb/s with aes-128-gcm (requires AES-NI and amd64) on
hw.model=Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5649 @ 2.53GHz hw.vendor=HP
hw.product=ProLiant DL360 G7
what's the reason aes-128-gcm requires amd64?
because the assembly is written for amd64.
we can't add that code to i386?
that specific one? of course not. but the aes-ni and clmul instructions are
part of sse and can be executed by both 32-bit and 64-bit programs.
apart from that, it might be possible that binutils have to be adjusted (i
don't remember if they share the same code) and i386 has to grow
fpu_kernel_{enter,exit}.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 05:30:18PM -0500, Chris Bennett wrote: banner `wget http://www.openbsd.org/ -O -` That's nice, but it would be nice if someone could take some responsibility and make banner css-aware. Imagine being able to specify a cool font face with anti-aliased edges and true transparency! -- Cheers, Erling
Re: partitioning with more mount points on obsd51
On 2012-06-26, Norman Golisz li...@zcat.de wrote: /dev/sd2o 246M5.1M229M 2%/var/log useful one this, to protect your system logs against things like too much disk space taken by email/databases/etc.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Really? Can we do that? Seems, by this thread and previous about this subject, that nobody is waiting for any diffs regarding this - Alvaro El 27/06/2012, a las 02:12, Eric Furman escribió: We are all anxiously awaiting your diffs... On Tue, Jun 26, 2012, at 07:52 PM, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez wrote: Why is not possible to apply a new css style to the current site? That has nothing to do with joomla (and similar) and would keep the site fast and compatible with, let's saylynx or whatever browser do you want to try with the site. I mean, for me the site is ok but a new css style could be a great thing too. Same speed, same compatibility, new design. - Alvaro El 26/06/2012, a las 16:25, STeve Andre' escribió: On 06/26/12 17:57, Pablo Velasco Fernández wrote: I mean.. A modern style. El 26/06/2012 23:55, Miod Vallat m...@online.fr escribió: Hi. I was loolong the FreeBSD web page. And its a cool page with a cool desing. Maybe OpenBSD should change their own page to a most visual web page. ( Its only my opinion ) What do you think? Last time I checked, you could use eyes to browse the OpenBSD website. Why do you consider it non-visual? Miod OK, a modern style. But why? Why is it that a web site that does what web sites should do--convey information--have to be redesigned in order to keep up with other sites? I see this all the time, at work where people seem to think that things like Joomlacough are a good thing. I shouldn't say just work, as I see it everywhere. The OpenBSD site is simple and fast. I keep it in /usr/www which consumes 291M as of today. It's a great web site as it is. --STeve Andre' [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
Re: PF and ftp: to use or not to use ftp-proxy ?
On 2012-06-26, Илья Шипицин chipits...@gmail.com wrote: match in inet proto tcp from any port = ftp-data to $external port 1024:65535 rdr-to $internal port 1024:65535 You know people can choose their own source port number? It's just as safe to do from any to $external port 1024:65535...
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trunk0, inet6 , pf rules
Hello, I have a service listening both on inet and inet6 sockets, so I have inet6 traffic going in to that service Because I have trunk0 setup, a rule like: (3) pass in inet6 proto tcp to port $service_port queue services does not solves the problem, because only few packets and sometimes no packet at all is able to pass. because according to tcpdump the ipv6 client keeps sending inet6 SYN packets without the server to reply to this packets, and the handshake times out. I have to prepend these two rules to the rule set: (1) pass on trunk0 inet6 (2) pass on $ext_if proto ipv6 in order to fix the problem. Is there a control mechanism as I see that the rule (1) is matched by misterious packets in case of inet6 traffic, when the inet6 service is accessed, and rule(2) not at all, and finally rule(3) matches because is more specific than rule(1)? Without a rule like rule (3), rule (1) would match all inet6 traffic. What reprezent those misterious inet6 packets, and what is the explanation rules (1) and (2)? I only understand the fact that in case of tunnel interface(like the example in the manual), or in my case trunk interface, inet6 functionality must be enabled at the trunk pseudo-device level as well as physical interface level, although $ext_if expands to trunk0, also. If trunk0 is an aggregation of two physical interfaces bge0 and bge1, is the physical interface , bge0, automatically provisioned with ipv6 functionality, if we specify these rules? If $ext_if=bge0 and no trunk0 interface created, the rules (1) and (2) wouldn't be needed anymore because bge0 would have been automatically configured for inet6 traffic? So we need rules (1) and (2) in trunk setup to obtain the same behaviour? Please if someone could explain the importance of rule (1) and rule (2). OS: OpenBSD/5.1/amd64 Thank you in advance Bogdan
Re: php mongo pthread issue
In gmane.os.openbsd.misc, you wrote: Hi, I'm trying to run the PHP MongoDB extension under the OpenBSD standard Apache install and I'm getting the following error: /usr/sbin/httpd:/usr/local/lib/php-5.3/modules/mongo.so: undefined symbol 'pthread_mutex_lock' lazy binding failed! [Tue Jun 26 12:46:26 2012] [notice] child pid 99 exit signal Segmentation fault (11) Since I couldn't find a pre-built package, I downloaded, compiled and installed the following: mongodb-mongo-php-driver-9a154f0 I also modified the LDFLAGS entry in the Makefile by adding -pthread as suggested by some searching on the Internet. The modified Makefile can be viewed at: That is incorrect advice. http://www.eskimo.com/~joji/openbsd/ Anybody else having this problem? Any ideas on how to overcome this issue? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Please Reply-All when responding or CC: me as I am not subscribed to this list. Best is probably to use php-fpm and access it via fastcgi. Otherwise the steps from /usr/ports/Cgraphics/pecl-imagick/pkg/README should work.
Re: 5.2-beta doesn't exit X and doesn't switch consoles
On 6/27/2012 8:07 AM, Tomas Bodzar wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Brian Callahan bcal...@devio.us wrote: On 6/27/2012 12:28 AM, Tomas Bodzar wrote: Hi, on Dell E6320 with $ sysctl kern.version kern.version=OpenBSD 5.2-beta (GENERIC.MP) #331: Sun Jun 24 20:04:00 MDT 2012 dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP $ I have $ dmesg | grep vga vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel GT2+ Video rev 0x09 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation) intagp0 at vga1 inteldrm0 at vga1: apic 2 int 16 $ and using default cwm withou .cwmrc started from .xinitrc via startx $ cat .xinitrc xsetroot -solid steelblue cwm $ No EE or WW (except of obvious info that for this sandybridge it will use VESA) in /var/log/Xorg.0.log and no issues in /var/log/messages. When I hit CMS-q in cwm screen goes just black and nothing more happens. I'm not back in console and can't switch consoles. All I can do is hit power button and ACPI will turn off computer. Relevant part in Xorg.0.log before and after hitting button: [33.706] PCH FDI RX PLL enable [33.740] PCH FDI TX PLL enable 801a2350 [33.780] Pipe enable [33.780] Plane enable [33.820] FDI_RX_IIR 0x100 [33.820] FDI train 1 done. [33.840] FDI_RX_IIR 0x200 [33.840] FDI train 2 done. [33.840] FDI train done [33.860] FDI TX link normal [33.880] transcoder enable [33.880] LUT load [33.880] DPMS on done [ 668.243] (II) UnloadModule: kbd [ 668.249] (II) UnloadModule: ws [ 668.261] PCH FDI RX PLL enable [ 668.299] PCH FDI TX PLL enable 801a2350 [ 668.339] Pipe enable [ 668.339] Plane enable [ 668.379] FDI_RX_IIR 0x100 [ 668.379] FDI train 1 done. [ 668.399] FDI_RX_IIR 0x200 [ 668.399] FDI train 2 done. [ 668.399] FDI train done [ 668.419] FDI TX link normal [ 668.439] transcoder enable [ 668.439] LUT load [ 668.439] DPMS on done [ 668.499] Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file. and if X running and want to switch to other consoles via CM-F1-Fx then I can see only black screen, but I'm not getting console. Only switch back to X works and my X is displayed again. Someone with similar symptoms? Known issue. http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugsm=132461653904304w=2 Fail. Was working just fine on this same laptop with 5.1-current with initial support for Sandybridge. Must be something else. Excellent work stating that in your initial email. ~Brian
DHCPD give lease to specific machine brand
Hello
Imagine i want all the brand X in subnet Y
WWW say :
It seems that ISC DHCP can do the trick:
class testclass {
match if substring (hardware, 1, 2) = 00:ad;
}
openbsd manpages has only :
host ncd1 { hardware ethernet 0:c0:c3:49:2b:57; }
so i f i want XX:XX:XX:*:*:* it s gonna be 16 millions lines of
declaration.
Shall i read the dhcpd code or someone can share a 'hidden' knowledge
Best regards.
--
-
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\
Re: DHCPD give lease to specific machine brand
only way ?
http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/5.1/packages/i386/isc-dhcp-server-4.2.3.2.tgz
2012/6/27 sven falempin sven.falem...@gmail.com
Hello
Imagine i want all the brand X in subnet Y
WWW say :
It seems that ISC DHCP can do the trick:
class testclass {
match if substring (hardware, 1, 2) = 00:ad;
}
openbsd manpages has only :
host ncd1 { hardware ethernet 0:c0:c3:49:2b:57; }
so i f i want XX:XX:XX:*:*:* it s gonna be 16 millions lines of
declaration.
Shall i read the dhcpd code or someone can share a 'hidden' knowledge
Best regards.
--
-
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\
--
-
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Theo de Raadt dera...@cvs.openbsd.org wrote: On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:24 PM, richardtoo...@paradise.net.nz wrote: I'd prefer the (small) team of developers to work on the code. Well, that's a false dichotomy: not all OpenBSD committers work on the code. A handful work primarily on maintaining the website and/or documentation, because that's an important job too. Fair enough, I am not a developer, so it was entirely my 2c. I'm sure there are a lot of people who pop up and offer to do stuff but when the going gets tough and not much fun, they melt away like snowflakes. I've seen it in a number of organisations - lots of ideas, not enough implementers (if there's such a word.) Yeah. I get mails like that. We can make this much prettier using php. PHP is like s early 2000s. When's Python gonna go into base? /me ducks
İGED AKADEMİ: ETKİN TAHSİLÂT BECERİSİ (SERTİFİKALI)
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Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
PHP is like s early 2000s. When's Python gonna go into base? You're behind the times; python's been replaced by ruby running on top of mongodb
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Bret Lambert bret.lamb...@gmail.com wrote: PHP is like s early 2000s. When's Python gonna go into base? You're behind the times; python's been replaced by ruby running on top of mongodb ah crap! Off to buy a bunch of O'Reilly books about that. I guess that means migrating the mailing lists to Diaspora then?
Re: Romanian layout in OpenBSD
Hi Paul, Nice to see other gyp^H^H^HRomanians around here. I don't know why I chose UTF-16, it was just to make sure everybody knew what characters I was referring to. Could have been UTF-8 as well, just a bad pick from my part. Thanks for your input, I'll need some time to digest and understand all your settings (still testing things out and still learning). For the time being, I'm using Xfce with its own keyboard layout options and works great for my Office-like text editor needs, but if I'll ever change my desktop manager, I'll have to find some more general approaches, like you suggested. Thought as wscons as the most general approach to Romanian special characters, but you're right, it's not like someone's using them outside X anyway. Thanks! Claudiu. That's because gysies use dvorak layout. problem is fixable (at least locally if not in future releases), but I'll need your help, since I'm new to OpenBSD. I do the following: LC_CTYPE=ro_RO.UTF-8 in my .profile and then XTerm*Font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--18-120-100-100-c-90-iso10646-1 XTerm*eightBitInput: true XTerm*locale: true XTerm*utf8: 1 in my .Xdefaults and then my XCompose looks like this: - --- #include %L Multi_key period : ă U0103 Multi_key greater : Ă U0102 Multi_key a : â UE2 Multi_key A : Â UC2 Multi_key i : î UEE Multi_key I : Î UCE # Cedilla versions #Multi_key t : ţ U0163 #Multi_key T : Ţ U0162 #Multi_key s : ş U015F #Multi_key S : Ş U015E # Comma versions Multi_key t : ț U021B Multi_key T : Ț U021A Multi_key s : ș U0219 Multi_key S : Ș U0218 - --- After you set-up all of this start a new xterm and cat .XCompose. You should see the proper characters for both cedilla and comma versions. Probably I have to start with wsconsctl, but I'm not sure how to use this tool to remap my keyboard. Basically, the following characters addition and adjustment of the us layout is needed (encoding is UTF-16): Hahahah, right... UTF-16 hahahaha. Forget about that. That's a Windowsism that even the Microsoft fans want to get rid of. UTF-8 is the standard in the rest of the civilised world. I'm not sure what's the state with wscons and terms, miod might shed some light into that. But I don't think you want to use those in a non-X environment and for that my tricks above should suffice.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
That is a joke...right? Nothing is better than Django El 27/06/2012, a las 11:48, Bret Lambert escribió: PHP is like s early 2000s. When's Python gonna go into base? You're behind the times; python's been replaced by ruby running on top of mongodb [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:19 AM, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez alv...@alvaromantilla.com wrote: Really? Can we do that? Yes. There's no filters in place on the mailing list to prevent people from submitting diffs, but there's also no guarantee that just because you send in a diff that it'll be committed either. If someone's serious about wanting to propose a website refresh, then go for it. Check out the www subdirectory from CVS, copy it to your own webserver, make the changes you had in mind, show it off, and be prepared for feedback. If it's just as functional as now and isn't any more work to maintain going forward, then it stands a chance to get committed. Seems, by this thread and previous about this subject, that nobody is waiting for any diffs regarding this Well, most of the comments on this thread are from people who don't have CVS commit access, so web site diffs wouldn't be terribly useful to them anyway. Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap. Yes, talk is unbelievably cheap. On the other hand, if whatever anyone produces makes it harder (or even just new and different) for regular developers to change the ontent they do regularily change, they are going to fight you on it. And since they are developers, their no way will go a long way...
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
No hadoop and shards? Blasphemy! Sent from my iPhone 7 beta On Jun 27, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez alv...@alvaromantilla.com wrote: That is a joke...right? Nothing is better than Django El 27/06/2012, a las 11:48, Bret Lambert escribi¨®: PHP is like s early 2000s. When's Python gonna go into base? You're behind the times; python's been replaced by ruby running on top of mongodb [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
Re: SIL-3512 supported?
On v, jún 17, 2012 at 12:21:56 +0200, Fabian wrote: Well, it was needed in my case, but it might not be needed in your case. As I understand, this chipset is used in a couple of no-name cards. Thanks for the info, fortunately the card is working out of the box. Daniel -- LÉVAI Dániel PGP key ID = 0x83B63A8F Key fingerprint = DBEC C66B A47A DFA2 792D 650C C69B BE4C 83B6 3A8F
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On 06/27/2012 10:19 AM, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez wrote: Really? Can we do that? Seems, by this thread and previous about this subject, that nobody is waiting for any diffs regarding this - Alvaro Of course, you can do anything you wish. No one is EXPECTING quality diffs, for our definition of quality, and therefore, waiting would be silly. But...if someone shows us something that is a REAL improvement and not just window dressing, or moving stuff for the sake of moving stuff, I'm sure we'd look at it. Most of what we've seen in the past has been AT BEST, shuffling things around to be more aesthetically pleasing to the one doing the shuffling, and indifferent to most of the rest of us. Maybe that says something about us, but have you actually LOOKED at any OpenBSD developers lately? Provinding visual pleasure is NOT our strong point! The ones that get our attention are the ones that say, here, I redesigned a few pages of your website, what do you think? We (obviously) haven't seen one that made us think, Wow, that's what we need to do!, but it shows someone cared enough to put some work behind their words. Others in this thread have described what would need to be maintained in any improvement. Let me add (as I don't think it was mentioned), static pages, managed by CVS, able to be mirrored by anyone, publicly or privately. Multiple rendering options would be nice. Oh, and we need to keep support for translations to other languages. Keep in mind, I don't think anyone in the project sees any major PROBLEMS with the current website desing, so you must not break anything that developers like right now. This will be difficult. The most interesting suggestion I've heard was to switch to mdoc-based source, then use that to generate html. Note the lack of any cool HTML buzzwords in that statement (and the end goal would be to end up with something that looks and feels very similar to the current site, so I'm sure the suggestions to improve the design would continue), but this might actually IMPROVE things for developers (saner layout language, known by virtually all the developers) hopefully leading to better consistency for readers, and a bunch of other wild ideas that I'm not ready to talk about publicly yet. Maybe one of those Lottery e-mails I keep getting will turn out to be true, allowing me to devote more time to this. :) Something about doing a .Xr cat 1 instead of the monstrosity which is a man page link currently is just SO bloomin' attractive to me... Nick. El 27/06/2012, a las 02:12, Eric Furman escribió: We are all anxiously awaiting your diffs... On Tue, Jun 26, 2012, at 07:52 PM, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez wrote: Why is not possible to apply a new css style to the current site? That has nothing to do with joomla (and similar) and would keep the site fast and compatible with, let's saylynx or whatever browser do you want to try with the site. I mean, for me the site is ok but a new css style could be a great thing too. Same speed, same compatibility, new design. - Alvaro El 26/06/2012, a las 16:25, STeve Andre' escribió: On 06/26/12 17:57, Pablo Velasco Fernández wrote: I mean.. A modern style. El 26/06/2012 23:55, Miod Vallatm...@online.fr escribió: Hi. I was loolong the FreeBSD web page. And its a cool page with a cool desing. Maybe OpenBSD should change their own page to a most visual web page. ( Its only my opinion ) What do you think? Last time I checked, you could use eyes to browse the OpenBSD website. Why do you consider it non-visual? Miod OK, a modern style. But why? Why is it that a web site that does what web sites should do--convey information--have to be redesigned in order to keep up with other sites? I see this all the time, at work where people seem to think that things like Joomlacough are a good thing. I shouldn't say just work, as I see it everywhere. The OpenBSD site is simple and fast. I keep it in /usr/www which consumes 291M as of today. It's a great web site as it is. --STeve Andre' [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc]
Re: DHCPD give lease to specific machine brand
On 06/27/2012 11:58 AM, sven falempin wrote:
only way ?
http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/5.1/packages/i386/isc-dhcp-server-4.2.3.2.tgz
OpenBSD's dhcpd is based on ISC's DHCP server, stripped down to the
simplest standard needs. This was done to keep the code clean,
auditable and maintainable.
Your need is not quite standard. There's the ISC everything including
kitchen-sink product, which does what you need, go for it, use it.
That's why its there, we don't pretend the OpenBSD dhcpd solves every
problem...we mostly want to make sure it doesn't INTRODUCE problems.
Nick.
2012/6/27 sven falempinsven.falem...@gmail.com
Hello
Imagine i want all the brand X in subnet Y
WWW say :
It seems that ISC DHCP can do the trick:
class testclass {
match if substring (hardware, 1, 2) = 00:ad;
}
openbsd manpages has only :
host ncd1 { hardware ethernet 0:c0:c3:49:2b:57; }
so i f i want XX:XX:XX:*:*:* it s gonna be 16 millions lines of
declaration.
Shall i read the dhcpd code or someone can share a 'hidden' knowledge
Best regards.
--
-
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\
Re: Romanian layout in OpenBSD
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 09:07:53PM +0300, Claudiu Tanaselia wrote: Hi Paul, Nice to see other gyp^H^H^HRomanians around here. I don't know why I chose UTF-16, it was just to make sure everybody knew what characters I was referring to. Could have been UTF-8 as well, just a bad pick from my part. Thanks for your input, I'll need some time to digest and understand all your settings (still testing things out and still learning). For the time being, I'm using Xfce with its own keyboard layout options and works great for my Office-like text editor needs, but if I'll ever change my desktop manager, I'll have to find some more general approaches, like you suggested. For the X keyboard settings, you can use setxkbmap. Just add the correct command to your .xinitrc. I'm using a interchangable layout with caps lock key for spanish/english keyboard but you can change the layouts to your needs. - Search the correct layouts in /usr/X11R6/share/X11/xkb/rules/base.lst - Add to your .xinitrc: - If you only need one layout: setxkbmap -layout es - If you need various variants: setxkbmap -layout es, us -variant , altgr-intl -option grp:caps_toggle You also can use the file xorg.conf for the settings but with setxkbmap+xinitrc each user can have a different config. The XFCE configuration tool is a frontend for the Xorg options. Thought as wscons as the most general approach to Romanian special characters, but you're right, it's not like someone's using them outside X anyway. Thanks! Claudiu I can't help with wscons config. -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 08:19, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez wrote: Really? Can we do that? Seems, by this thread and previous about this subject, that nobody is waiting for any diffs regarding this There's so much low hanging fruit that could be improved before somebody starts dicking about with the CSS. For instance, crypto.html is woefully out of date, to the point where it brags about using MD5. At least the page looks old so people will be forgiving. Slapping some rounded corners on it will only make things worse. I think better content is more important than better packaging, but so far we aren't getting many diffs for either.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 07:48:46PM +0200, Bret Lambert wrote: PHP is like s early 2000s. ?When's Python gonna go into base? You're behind the times; python's been replaced by ruby running on top of mongodb I see each day more developers migrating their personal websites from php/python/ruby/whatever to static html. And well, it's impossible apply a patch to the content of a dynamic website. -- Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 08:19, Alvaro Mantilla Gimenez wrote: Really? Can we do that? Seems, by this thread and previous about this subject, that nobody is waiting for any diffs regarding this There's so much low hanging fruit that could be improved before somebody starts dicking about with the CSS. For instance, crypto.html is woefully out of date, to the point where it brags about using MD5. At least the page looks old so people will be forgiving. Slapping some rounded corners on it will only make things worse. I think better content is more important than better packaging, but so far we aren't getting many diffs for either. Ted, you are talking about 'content' of the web site, but noone else is talking about 'content'. They're talking about mark-up, about bling. The web pages could be full of the words 'shit shit shit', repeated over and over, as long as it has bling.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 15:11, Nick Holland wrote: Others in this thread have described what would need to be maintained in any improvement. Let me add (as I don't think it was mentioned), static pages, managed by CVS, able to be mirrored by anyone, publicly or privately. Multiple rendering options would be nice. Oh, and we need to keep support for translations to other languages. Here's something I think would be a *major* improvement. Fix magicpoint to export slides in a format better than jpg. Some people's talks (hi henning!) take forever to load, the content is completely invisible to search engines, there's no way to fix typos, and on and on. My internet is kind of slow, so I doubt I could even download the 10th anniversary of pf talk in real time to follow along with an audio recording. I know Henning loves his fluffy pictures, but a basic html conversion of that info, minus the background images, would be awesome.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Ted Unangst t...@tedunangst.com wrote: Here's something I think would be a *major* improvement. Fix magicpoint to export slides in a format better than jpg. Or extend mandoc to support Comic Sans so it can be used for presentation slide decks!
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 13:53, Matthew Dempsky wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Ted Unangst t...@tedunangst.com wrote: Here's something I think would be a *major* improvement. Fix magicpoint to export slides in a format better than jpg. Or extend mandoc to support Comic Sans so it can be used for presentation slide decks! Somebody didn't get the memo! http://5in5nyc.com/2012/05/31/dear-startups-lobster-is-the-new-comic-sans/
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap. I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: www.flexstudio.ch Richard is a very good friend but still your typical starving artist with bills to pay. I did this before for other friends' businesses who loved it. No one is EXPECTING quality diffs, for our definition of quality, and therefore, waiting would be silly. But...if someone shows us something that is a REAL improvement and not just window dressing, or moving stuff for the sake of moving stuff, I'm sure we'd look at it. Graphic design is about communication, it's a means to an end, whatever gets in the way is a problem. Why you fail to get your message across doesn't matter -- OpenBSD's current anachronistic design or Wired-mag type sensory overload. Gimmicks like CSS, Javascript, Flash or whatever are a problem more often than not. Richard will argue that more than one color, in addition to black white, is a distraction (and that Vision Street Wear copied the Swastika). It took me _years_ to understand and respect that graphic design isn't all that subjective, that it's a craft, with harmonic rules similar to music, and that a programmer has as little credibility questioning his skill than him questioning mine. There's a ~5% window I can argue why something he did is counter-message but for the rest it takes me a few days to realize I'm wrong, he's right, a fucking genius in fact. I'm not going to argue the point with anyone; if you think beauty counters functionality I say iPod click-wheel or that opinions are like assholes; everybody has theirs then you're looking up your own :) -- p
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap. I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: that would be cool to presence as a bystander pay the dude regardless of what anybody says, and have him send the patches to a public mailing list would've been even more interesting if you told nobody that he was getting payed for the patches
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: that would be cool to presence as a bystander No te entiendo tío! pay the dude regardless of what anybody says, and have him send the patches to a public mailing list Maybe if this community wasn't so resistant to change (justified or not). would've been even more interesting if you told nobody that he was getting payed for the patches Truth is simpler. -- p
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
TLDR: It's not your place to tell others what they like. On 28 June 2012 07:59, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: It took me _years_ to understand and respect that graphic design isn't all that subjective, that it's a craft, with harmonic rules similar to music Maybe it does, but your comment sounds awfully like many other designer's wa-wa, emitted when people simply _don't like_ their creations A good example is the fixed-width websites that someone else mentioned earlier in the thread. Setting up sites like this takes away a user's choice for no obvious gain, except perhaps some laziness on the designer's part. Users might want their content wider for lots of reasons... such as, perhaps, displaying large text to aid the vision-impaired. Or they might be viewing it on a small screen, eg. smartphone... Do you think that if the reader finds reading to be optimal at a particular column width, that said reader may well adjust their browser window to suit? John
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:55 PM, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: that would be cool to presence as a bystander No te entiendo tío! i rarely see people talking about the site layout on these lists, and i think it would be funny to see a typical designer dealing with; e.g., www/build/mirrors.pl it would be entertaining to follow the thread of patch submissions and developer reactions :) having said that, i think the site is ok
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On 06/27/12 17:58, Peter Laufenberg wrote: Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap. I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. ... No, this is the wrong direction. A good graphic designer is about as rare as a good programmer, but that's not what the website is about (and yes, a bad graphic designer is about as common as a bad programmer). However, I don't know any graphic designers who understand our goals and needs, and I can't imagine it...it's kinda like asking a concert pianist for advice on designing a chop saw. Technically, there's no reason a concert pianist couldn't be an expert on chop saws, but it is the kind of thing I'd kinda hope they would keep their hands really far away from, as it could really interfere with their primary occupation. OpenBSD is not trying to SELL anyone anything. IF you chose to come to OpenBSD, we wish to provide you information on using it, through many possible tools and mediums. If someone comes to the OpenBSD website and walks away because of its desing, that's good. If someone becomes an OpenBSD user BECAUSE of its desing, I really think that's bad. Graphic design is about communication, it's a means to an end, whatever gets in the way is a problem. Why you fail to get your message across doesn't matter -- OpenBSD's current anachronistic design or Wired-mag type sensory overload. Other than boring, no one has actually STATED a problem of the OpenBSD website. What message are we not getting across? If there is a PROBLEM you see that makes getting its information to you difficult, please state it and indicate what could be done better. i.e., saying, what you did to the faq/index.html page for this release makes no sense to me as I'm blind and using a screen reader would be constructive and useful (and I have no freaking idea what to do about it, and in fact, I've just made myself feel really guilty, as if someone WERE to say that to me, I don't want to undo it...) And really, if the website is about showing the product, what better could it be than boring? Exciting to install? nope. Rushes to do emergency upgrades because of yet another vulnerability? nope. Exciting website? nope. Fits, eh? :) Nick.
OpenBSD's webpage design
Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap. I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: www.flexstudio.ch Since this is a friend of yours, I'll refrain from commenting about that design. I don't understand this whole discussion: The OpenBSD website has superb navigation, loads ultra-fast and has a unique design that should be protected by UNESCO. Why not skip the proposed design change? In ten years designers will rediscover the current design as retro, and you'll have to pay again to be fashionable. Stefan Krah
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Peter Laufenberg [open...@laufenberg.ch] wrote: I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: www.flexstudio.ch Richard is a very good friend but still your typical starving artist with bills to pay. I did this before for other friends' businesses who loved it. As you can imagine, a project full of software developers isn't the best place to look for advancements in graphic design. Despite some of the rhetoric (comments) on the list about the suggestion, I'm sure a sharp design (with a clean implementation) would be appreciated. The problem is that opinions on what is appropriate will vary. IIRC, Theo did the current design himself after everyone else failed to come up with something good. And as many have said, there's plenty of actual improvements to be made that have nothing to do with graphic design. Yet, I have to agree the current design is showing its age. Chris
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
TLDR: It's not your place to tell others what they like. Am I? It's not about one individual likes, it's about whether your messages reaches a majority of your audience. Most of the filtering is subconscious and immune to fashion btw. On 28 June 2012 07:59, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: It took me _years_ to understand and respect that graphic design isn't all that subjective, that it's a craft, with harmonic rules similar to music Maybe it does, but your comment sounds awfully like many other designer's wa-wa, emitted when people simply _don't like_ their creations No it doesn't. However, your wahhh-wahhh comment sounds like you think it's all BS anyway. A good example is the fixed-width websites that someone else mentioned earlier in the thread. Setting up sites like this takes away a user's choice for no obvious gain, except perhaps some laziness on the designer's part. Users might want their content wider for lots of reasons... such as, perhaps, displaying large text to aid the vision-impaired. Or they might be viewing it on a small screen, eg. smartphone... Do you think that if the reader finds reading to be optimal at a particular column width, that said reader may well adjust their browser window to suit? I never spoke of fixed-width or any technical restrictions; those are set by whoever emits the message, not the designer. -- p
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:55 PM, john slee indig...@oldcorollas.org wrote: Do you think that if the reader finds reading to be optimal at a particular column width, that said reader may well adjust their browser window to suit? sorry but that's complete bs. you are essentially expecting users to re-size the window according to each site, since it's impossible for all sites to display optimally under fixed browser-window dimensions without conceding to capped text width... and that's a situation where worst case happens to match the usual case the 60-72 cap train took off ages ago. i don't read books like it's a chinese fortune string, nor do i subject my newspaper leisure ours to the same torture
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Hi, Matthew Dempsky wrote on Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 01:53:09PM -0700: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Ted Unangst t...@tedunangst.com wrote: Here's something I think would be a *major* improvement. Fix magicpoint to export slides in a format better than jpg. That's not the only thing that could be fixed about magicpoint; however, fixing magicpoint is not a job for the fainthearted. The only time i used it so far (ironically, to present about mandoc), i ended up publishing the slides in plain HTML, with heavy manual postprocessing: http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html Or extend mandoc to support Comic Sans so it can be used for presentation slide decks! Actually, (g)roff is usable for preparing slides. As usual in the roff world, pick your favourite macro package. For example, here is one based on the mm macros: http://www.science.uva.nl/~bobd/useful/gpresent/ As much as i like mdoc(7) for formatting manuals, it's not an obvious choice for slides, and man(7) even less so. So you really need groff(1), mandoc(1) won't do. I'm not currently aware of any project to add mm(7) support to mandoc(1), let alone gpresent. In particular, it isn't on my TODO list at all. Yours, Ingo
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Nick Holland n...@holland-consulting.net wrote: Other than boring, no one has actually STATED a problem of the OpenBSD website. What message are we not getting across? If there is a PROBLEM you see that makes getting its information to you difficult, please state it and indicate what could be done better. i.e., saying, what you did to the faq/index.html page for this release makes no sense to me as I'm blind and using a screen reader would be constructive and useful (and I have no freaking idea what to do about it, and in fact, I've just made myself feel really guilty, as if someone WERE to say that to me, I don't want to undo it...) ok concretely, the man and webcvs pages do not have links back to openbsd.org good design would be to make the openbsd logo at the top left corner be the link that's a big nono in site layout. you should make the site as browseable as possible (see how you can talk about design without talking about aesthetics) another thing is, talking with a professional designer will reveal many problems like these, the difference being that you'll get information in meaningful chunks instead of little updates such as this mail
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
I agree 100%; the 1st question an artist would ask is what are you trying to accomplish? If you don't want more OpenBSD users/contributors and really the message is piss off, nothing to see here, we're fine as is, leave us alone, then the current web site as well as references to floppies and tapes in the docs are spot on. Seriously. -- p On 06/27/12 17:58, Peter Laufenberg wrote: Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap. I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. ... No, this is the wrong direction. A good graphic designer is about as rare as a good programmer, but that's not what the website is about (and yes, a bad graphic designer is about as common as a bad programmer). However, I don't know any graphic designers who understand our goals and needs, and I can't imagine it...it's kinda like asking a concert pianist for advice on designing a chop saw. Technically, there's no reason a concert pianist couldn't be an expert on chop saws, but it is the kind of thing I'd kinda hope they would keep their hands really far away from, as it could really interfere with their primary occupation. OpenBSD is not trying to SELL anyone anything. IF you chose to come to OpenBSD, we wish to provide you information on using it, through many possible tools and mediums. If someone comes to the OpenBSD website and walks away because of its desing, that's good. If someone becomes an OpenBSD user BECAUSE of its desing, I really think that's bad. Graphic design is about communication, it's a means to an end, whatever gets in the way is a problem. Why you fail to get your message across doesn't matter -- OpenBSD's current anachronistic design or Wired-mag type sensory overload. Other than boring, no one has actually STATED a problem of the OpenBSD website. What message are we not getting across? If there is a PROBLEM you see that makes getting its information to you difficult, please state it and indicate what could be done better. i.e., saying, what you did to the faq/index.html page for this release makes no sense to me as I'm blind and using a screen reader would be constructive and useful (and I have no freaking idea what to do about it, and in fact, I've just made myself feel really guilty, as if someone WERE to say that to me, I don't want to undo it...) And really, if the website is about showing the product, what better could it be than boring? Exciting to install? nope. Rushes to do emergency upgrades because of yet another vulnerability? nope. Exciting website? nope. Fits, eh? :) Nick.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage design
Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: Speaking personally, I wouldn't mind if OpenBSD's website were updated. Just no one has volunteered yet to do the dirty work of actually coming up with a functional design and then updating the HTML. Talk is cheap. I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: www.flexstudio.ch Since this is a friend of yours, I'll refrain from commenting about that design. Richard's not a web designer; he's a graphic designer. He put his portfolio on blogspot after I commented that downloading a single, enormous PDF kindof sucked, and I didn't know of a CMS that didn't suck. Web design, graphic design, UI functionality (like smartphone formatting), back-end functionality (like better formatting of man pages) are all different things. There's also industrial design, interior design, architecture, urbanism, and so on. -- p
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Ingo Schwarze schwa...@usta.de wrote: Hi, Matthew Dempsky wrote on Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 01:53:09PM -0700: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Ted Unangst t...@tedunangst.com wrote: Here's something I think would be a *major* improvement. Fix magicpoint to export slides in a format better than jpg. That's not the only thing that could be fixed about magicpoint; however, fixing magicpoint is not a job for the fainthearted. The only time i used it so far (ironically, to present about mandoc), i ended up publishing the slides in plain HTML, with heavy manual postprocessing: http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html that page is encoded iso 8859-1, doesn't state so anywhere, breaks with browsers configured to default to utf8 in the absence of encoding qualifiers all those little things add up, man
Re: OpenBSD's webpage design
Peter Laufenberg [open...@laufenberg.ch] wrote: Richard's not a web designer; he's a graphic designer. He put his portfolio on blogspot after I commented that downloading a single, enormous PDF kindof sucked, and I didn't know of a CMS that didn't suck. It should go without saying (after everything that's already been said), but for www.openbsd.org, technical prowess (clean and concise implementation) is more important than graphic design skills. If they can't do both, then a new template isn't even worth attempting.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage design
Peter Laufenberg [open...@laufenberg.ch] wrote: Richard's not a web designer; he's a graphic designer. He put his portfolio on blogspot after I commented that downloading a single, enormous PDF kindof sucked, and I didn't know of a CMS that didn't suck. It should go without saying (after everything that's already been said), but for www.openbsd.org, technical prowess (clean and concise implementation) is more important than graphic design skills. Agreed. If they can't do both, then a new template isn't even worth attempting. Disagreed. Compare the dispatching of tasks in OpenBSD itself; there are different experts for different areas. Vertical vs horizontal. Anyway I'm done with this thread; Ted put it quite clearly. I don't have a major problem with the web site other than I almost dismissed OpenBSD because the site and docs feel 10 years old. Free- and NetBSD looked much nicer but after I saw actual usage stats I gave OpenBSD a 2nd look and forced myself past the floppy/tape references and found OpenBSD's philosophy which just made sense. In other circumstances I might have missed OpenBSD entirely, so I instinctively don't like those red herrings, but I really don't know if more public attention would make OpenBSD a better system. Linux's example seems to show it just goes from bad to worse. -- p
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Andres Perera andre...@zoho.com wrote: ... that page is encoded iso 8859-1, doesn't state so anywhere, breaks with browsers configured to default to utf8 in the absence of encoding qualifiers Those browsers are violating the HTTP/1.1 standard. RFC 2616, section 3.7.1, paragraph 4: The charset parameter is used with some media types to define the character set (section 3.4) of the data. When no explicit charset parameter is provided by the sender, media subtypes of the text type are defined to have a default charset value of ISO-8859-1 when received via HTTP. Data in character sets other than ISO-8859-1 or its subsets MUST be labeled with an appropriate charset value. See section 3.4.1 for compatibility problems. And then there's section 3.4.1: 3.4.1 Missing Charset Some HTTP/1.0 software has interpreted a Content-Type header without charset parameter incorrectly to mean recipient should guess. Senders wishing to defeat this behavior MAY include a charset parameter even when the charset is ISO-8859-1 and SHOULD do so when it is known that it will not confuse the recipient. Unfortunately, some older HTTP/1.0 clients did not deal properly with an explicit charset parameter. HTTP/1.1 recipients MUST respect the charset label provided by the sender; and those user agents that have a provision to guess a charset MUST use the charset from the content-type field if they support that charset, rather than the recipient's preference, when initially displaying a document. See section 3.7.1. Wait, was that a warning that an explicit charset parameter broke some older browsers? Huh... Philip Guenther
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:43 PM, Philip Guenther guent...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Andres Perera andre...@zoho.com wrote: ... that page is encoded iso 8859-1, doesn't state so anywhere, breaks with browsers configured to default to utf8 in the absence of encoding qualifiers Those browsers are violating the HTTP/1.1 standard. RFC 2616, section 3.7.1, paragraph 4: The charset parameter is used with some media types to define the character set (section 3.4) of the data. When no explicit charset parameter is provided by the sender, media subtypes of the text type are defined to have a default charset value of ISO-8859-1 when received via HTTP. Data in character sets other than ISO-8859-1 or its subsets MUST be labeled with an appropriate charset value. See section 3.4.1 for compatibility problems. firefox and ie are nice enough to assume iso-8859-1. that's not the case with management configured browsers, where RFCs don't mean a damn And then there's section 3.4.1: 3.4.1 Missing Charset Some HTTP/1.0 software has interpreted a Content-Type header without charset parameter incorrectly to mean recipient should guess. Senders wishing to defeat this behavior MAY include a charset parameter even when the charset is ISO-8859-1 and SHOULD do so when it is known that it will not confuse the recipient. Unfortunately, some older HTTP/1.0 clients did not deal properly with an explicit charset parameter. HTTP/1.1 recipients MUST respect the charset label provided by the sender; and those user agents that have a provision to guess a charset MUST use the charset from the content-type field if they support that charset, rather than the recipient's preference, when initially displaying a document. See section 3.7.1. Wait, was that a warning that an explicit charset parameter broke some older browsers? Huh... wtf? a charset parameter is present in www/index.html so i guess that particular page isn't catering to an unrealistic section of an rfc i sense some conflicting interests here Philip Guenther
Re: OpenBSD's webpage design
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: Peter Laufenberg [open...@laufenberg.ch] wrote: Richard's not a web designer; he's a graphic designer. He put his portfolio on blogspot after I commented that downloading a single, enormous PDF kindof sucked, and I didn't know of a CMS that didn't suck. It should go without saying (after everything that's already been said), but for www.openbsd.org, technical prowess (clean and concise implementation) is more important than graphic design skills. Agreed. If they can't do both, then a new template isn't even worth attempting. Disagreed. Compare the dispatching of tasks in OpenBSD itself; there are different experts for different areas. Vertical vs horizontal. Anyway I'm done with this thread; Ted put it quite clearly. I don't have a major problem with the web site other than I almost dismissed OpenBSD because the site and docs feel 10 years old. Free- and NetBSD looked much nicer but after I saw actual usage stats I gave OpenBSD a 2nd look and forced myself past the floppy/tape references and found OpenBSD's philosophy which just made sense. In other circumstances I might have missed OpenBSD entirely, so I instinctively don't like those red herrings, but I really don't know if more public attention would make OpenBSD a better system. Linux's example seems to show it just goes from bad to worse. -- p In all seriousness without malice (well maybe a little), I don't think anybody really cares if a person doesn't choose an OS because of lacking aesthetic web design. If they don't look for more beyond that, then I doubt they'd stick with it after the installation process and frankly who gives a shit ? This entire discussion just reminds me of the upcoming generation and how clueless they are. Let them have their ubuntu and frameworks without any understanding or desire to know anything more than the frameworks they use - good riddance, don't let the door hitcha ! Once upon a time, newbies read RFC's man pages, engaged on irc, needed to join mailing lists for assistance.. now, they don't have to worry about learning to make build world, compiling a kernel, hardware, or configuring X, it's all done for them and it's sad that is what they expect or I'm not using it since it doesn't do everything for me. At least 10 years ago, you were forced to dive in and get to know your OS but really the difference between this generation and that is the fact that we were passionate about learning more and understanding the difference between BSD flavors or Linux distros, not just the aesthetics of the website. I liked the internet better when it was much smaller !
Re: OpenBSD's webpage design
Anyway I'm done with this thread; Ted put it quite clearly. I don't have a major problem with the web site other than I almost dismissed OpenBSD because the site and docs feel 10 years old. Free- and NetBSD looked much nicer but after I saw actual usage stats I gave OpenBSD a 2nd look and forced myself past the floppy/tape references and found OpenBSD's philosophy which just made sense. Everyone can see it how ever they want, but I see this as an asset for sure and a good filter like spamd! Anyone that care more about looks then real functionality should stick with their slick look site and not pay attention to what's under the hood. This would hopefully reduce the noise as this so off topic of web design tread. Amassing how much noise this create that is totally not relevant to how OpenBSD actually works. If the look keep away users that complains about totally irrelevant things like this, please make it even look older! But wait, developers have more interesting things to do, so be it... This is just like the old users complaining about documentation and still are not doing anything about it. Very funny, or sad depending how you look at it. Talk is s cheap!
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
Peter Laufenberg [open...@laufenberg.ch] wrote: I'm willing to indirectly donate to OpenBSD by paying a professional graphic designer to redo parts of OpenBSD's visual design. His portfolio: www.flexstudio.ch Richard is a very good friend but still your typical starving artist with bills to pay. I did this before for other friends' businesses who loved it. As you can imagine, a project full of software developers isn't the best place to look for advancements in graphic design. WipeOut on Playstation 1. In 1995 Psygnosis UK hired Designers Republic whose portfolio previously included crucifixes with barcodes for underground vinyl sleeves. It was a HUGE advancement for graphic design as well as music (Leftfield, Orbital). Apple is full of developers and getting more industrial design praise than Philippe Stark's lemon juicers. Sure you got your wannabe screwups like Ubuntu whatever and Windows 8, but software and art aren't antagonistic. Software architecture, elegant code, etc. -- p
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On 27/06/2012 22:53, Matthew Dempsky wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Ted Unangstt...@tedunangst.com wrote: Here's something I think would be a *major* improvement. Fix magicpoint to export slides in a format better than jpg. Or extend mandoc to support Comic Sans so it can be used for presentation slide decks! The following was brought to you by Dr. J. Beam, Esq.: http://mdocml.bsd.lv/foo.1.html (mandoc -Thtml -Ostyle=barf.css mandoc.1 foo.1.html)
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On Jun 27, 2012 8:41 PM, Andres Perera andre...@zoho.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 7:43 PM, Philip Guenther guent...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Andres Perera andre...@zoho.com wrote: ... that page is encoded iso 8859-1, doesn't state so anywhere, breaks with browsers configured to default to utf8 in the absence of encoding qualifiers Those browsers are violating the HTTP/1.1 standard. RFC 2616, section 3.7.1, paragraph 4: The charset parameter is used with some media types to define the character set (section 3.4) of the data. When no explicit charset parameter is provided by the sender, media subtypes of the text type are defined to have a default charset value of ISO-8859-1 when received via HTTP. Data in character sets other than ISO-8859-1 or its subsets MUST be labeled with an appropriate charset value. See section 3.4.1 for compatibility problems. firefox and ie are nice enough to assume iso-8859-1. that's not the case with management configured browsers, where RFCs don't mean a damn And then there's section 3.4.1: 3.4.1 Missing Charset Some HTTP/1.0 software has interpreted a Content-Type header without charset parameter incorrectly to mean recipient should guess. Senders wishing to defeat this behavior MAY include a charset parameter even when the charset is ISO-8859-1 and SHOULD do so when it is known that it will not confuse the recipient. Unfortunately, some older HTTP/1.0 clients did not deal properly with an explicit charset parameter. HTTP/1.1 recipients MUST respect the charset label provided by the sender; and those user agents that have a provision to guess a charset MUST use the charset from the content-type field if they support that charset, rather than the recipient's preference, when initially displaying a document. See section 3.7.1. Wait, was that a warning that an explicit charset parameter broke some older browsers? Huh... wtf? a charset parameter is present in www/index.html so i guess that particular page isn't catering to an unrealistic section of an rfc i sense some conflicting interests here Philip Guenther I'm a user not developer. This is as when I go to the store to buy tawlet paper... The feel and usability is more important when used, Not how the plastic package looks. Cody
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
On 28 June 2012 01:17, Andres Perera andre...@zoho.com wrote: http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html that page is encoded iso 8859-1, doesn't state so anywhere, breaks with browsers configured to default to utf8 in the absence of encoding qualifiers $ telnet www.openbsd.org 80 Trying 142.244.12.42... Connected to www.openbsd.org. Escape character is '^]'. GET /papers/bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html HTTP/1.1 Host: www.openbsd.org HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:59:19 GMT Server: Apache Last-Modified: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:11:28 GMT ETag: 65f60c9352dee7ec594696cdfb681e86316269ef Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 32754 Content-Type: text/html HTML BODY ... Okay, this could transmit Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 but doesn't, but that's ok, we can do this on a page-by-page basis with a META tag, which ought to be ignored by browsers that don't understand it: $ diff -u 'bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html' 'bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html.new' --- bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html2012-06-28 02:12:19.0 +0200 +++ bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html.new2012-06-28 02:07:54.0 +0200 @@ -1,4 +1,7 @@ HTML +HEAD +META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 / +HEAD/ BODY H1A HREF=http://www.bsdcan.org/2011/schedule/events/230.en.html;Mandoc in OpenBSD/A/H1 Generally speaking, I find that on misc@ the words you should make are taken far less seriously than even the most pitiful of diffs. regards, ropers
Re: OpenBSD's webpage design
On 06/27/12 20:50, Mr. Cromwell wrote: On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Peter Laufenbergopen...@laufenberg.ch wrote: Peter Laufenberg [open...@laufenberg.ch] wrote: Richard's not a web designer; he's a graphic designer. He put his portfolio on blogspot after I commented that downloading a single, enormous PDF kindof sucked, and I didn't know of a CMS that didn't suck. It should go without saying (after everything that's already been said), but for www.openbsd.org, technical prowess (clean and concise implementation) is more important than graphic design skills. Agreed. If they can't do both, then a new template isn't even worth attempting. Disagreed. Compare the dispatching of tasks in OpenBSD itself; there are different experts for different areas. Vertical vs horizontal. Anyway I'm done with this thread; Ted put it quite clearly. I don't have a major problem with the web site other than I almost dismissed OpenBSD because the site and docs feel 10 years old. Free- and NetBSD looked much nicer but after I saw actual usage stats I gave OpenBSD a 2nd look and forced myself past the floppy/tape references and found OpenBSD's philosophy which just made sense. In other circumstances I might have missed OpenBSD entirely, so I instinctively don't like those red herrings, but I really don't know if more public attention would make OpenBSD a better system. Linux's example seems to show it just goes from bad to worse. -- p In all seriousness without malice (well maybe a little), I don't think anybody really cares if a person doesn't choose an OS because of lacking aesthetic web design. If they don't look for more beyond that, then I doubt they'd stick with it after the installation process and frankly who gives a shit ? This entire discussion just reminds me of the upcoming generation and how clueless they are. Let them have their ubuntu and frameworks without any understanding or desire to know anything more than the frameworks they use - good riddance, don't let the door hitcha ! Once upon a time, newbies read RFC's man pages, engaged on irc, needed to join mailing lists for assistance.. now, they don't have to worry about learning to make build world, compiling a kernel, hardware, or configuring X, it's all done for them and it's sad that is what they expect or I'm not using it since it doesn't do everything for me. At least 10 years ago, you were forced to dive in and get to know your OS but really the difference between this generation and that is the fact that we were passionate about learning more and understanding the difference between BSD flavors or Linux distros, not just the aesthetics of the website. I liked the internet better when it was much smaller ! I don't think an entire generation of whipper snappers is standing on your lawn, maybe just a few of them.
Re: OpenBSD's webpage desing
that patch is not a solution a good solution is use m4 or another macro language (maybe cpp since apparently line-based macro languages are liked by mandoc freaks) to add an include to all pages in the www/* repository also, a commit hook that ensures that newly added or modified pages meet a set of requirements On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:55 PM, ropers rop...@gmail.com wrote: On 28 June 2012 01:17, Andres Perera andre...@zoho.com wrote: http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html that page is encoded iso 8859-1, doesn't state so anywhere, breaks with browsers configured to default to utf8 in the absence of encoding qualifiers $ telnet www.openbsd.org 80 Trying 142.244.12.42... Connected to www.openbsd.org. Escape character is '^]'. GET /papers/bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html HTTP/1.1 Host: www.openbsd.org HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:59:19 GMT Server: Apache Last-Modified: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 11:11:28 GMT ETag: 65f60c9352dee7ec594696cdfb681e86316269ef Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 32754 Content-Type: text/html HTML BODY ... Okay, this could transmit Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 but doesn't, but that's ok, we can do this on a page-by-page basis with a META tag, which ought to be ignored by browsers that don't understand it: $ diff -u 'bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html' 'bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html.new' --- bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html 2012-06-28 02:12:19.0 +0200 +++ bsdcan11-mandoc-openbsd.html.new 2012-06-28 02:07:54.0 +0200 @@ -1,4 +1,7 @@ HTML +HEAD +META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 / +HEAD/ BODY H1A HREF=http://www.bsdcan.org/2011/schedule/events/230.en.html;Mandoc in OpenBSD/A/H1 Generally speaking, I find that on misc@ the words you should make are taken far less seriously than even the most pitiful of diffs. regards, ropers
Re: wifi firmware for lenovo thinkpad E420
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 12:11 AM, Henning Brauer lists-open...@bsws.de wrote: I have one of these somewhere - basically, all that is needed is a pci attachment for the existing urtwn. shouldn't be too hard, but as usual - somebody has to do it. Hope somebody does this for 5.2 :-) Thanks --Siju
