Re: Rolling release?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 09:34:29AM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: Contrarily to what you might think, this email is NOT an exhaustive description of things as they are. It's a very quick, oversimplified summary, of a taxing process and decisions. There are glaring mistakes, for the sake of simplification. In a nutshell, release is ways harder to do than you think. Thanks a lot for explanation. -- ZB
Re: Where I am? [Was: Rolling release?]
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 02:59:55PM +0100, Wim Wauters wrote: Everything the OpenBSD project has been carefully thought through, so asking silly questions - especially ones based on the latest fashionable feature added to other, more convoluted, operating systems - will get RTFM replies and waste project people's time. I would to point your attention to the fact, that I'm not trying to waste neither project people's time, nor anyone's. Besides - first: I'm not on the dev list, just on the misc - and second: answering posts isn't obligatory (or perhaps I missed something?). -- Disclaimer: if you don't like my question - just don't respond. If you want to start a flamewar - choose someone else. If you've found my question rude or abusive - most probably you've (mis|over)interpreted (besides: pay attention, that I'm not native speaker - maybe used a wrong term?).
Re: Where I am? [Was: Rolling release?]
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 05:17:23PM +0100, Wim Wauters wrote: I think you underestimate the importance of this misc mailing lists, this is not the place to demonstrate a lack of understanding of what OpenBSD is about or that you haven't read anything about the OpenBSD release system :-) But I'm not here to demonstrate *anything*; I was supposing, that I can ask here a question not covered by the FAQ's contents, for example (believe me, there isn't any answer to the question: why we chose such way). And even, if I - or someone - will ask the question covered by any docs, isn't just easier to skip it, giving no response at all, instead of wasting time answering the question, which - as I understood from some answers - perhaps isn't (from that person's point of view) worth any response? Out of personal interest: have you been using OpenBSD long, and what do you use it for? Not too long - since about beginning of this year - and using is perhaps a bit exaggeration at the moment, it should be rather: I'm going to. What for? I've found, that probably OpenBSD could be best replacement for my earlier NetBSD-based installations, because - unfortunately - there still are some problems with such basic things like PATA/SATA drivers (or USB), which I'm unable to fix by myself, and the devs are currently busy with other things. OpenBSD just seems to be very well working on the hardware, which one can obtain very cheaply nowadays - f.e. Slot1 motherboards, which are working reliably, but aren't of any use for WinXP/Vista users now. I must say, I was surprised, when I reported the problem with SATA, writing in addition, that OpenBSD at the same hardware works without any problem. And I've got an answer: ...but they just ported our driver. :-O -- ZB
Re: Where I am? [Was: Rolling release?]
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 04:24:57PM -0400, Gerald Thornberry wrote: you'll often hear that OpenBSD exists at the pleasure of its developers, not the users. Absolutely. They put in the time and effort. They would do so, presumably, if we users did not exist. Maybe. But - forgive me for being contrary - with much, much lesser pleasure. Why? It's simple: every creator likes his work to be appreciated. The painter likes his pictures to be watched, the writer likes his books to be read - not just to lie on the shelves - and so is with software developer. Pay attention: there is a feedback. But I'm afraid, this thread goes still more and more out of topic. ;) -- ZB
Rolling release?
AFAIK OpenBSD has 2 releases a year - which means, that devs are trying to keep the packages and OS itself fresh. But I'm wondering: wouldn't be in such situation reasonable to switch to s.c. rolling release model - and even more convenient for both devs and users? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Rolling release?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 08:56:07PM -0400, Steve Shockley wrote: That's called -current. You mean: syncing with that branch gives in effect what I was writing about? Didn't try it... maybe I should. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Rolling release?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 07:29:38PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: Above are my rather theoretical thoughts... not sure, just asking. Just a theoretical thought, eh. Just asking... right. Yes, it is easy and OK to ask uneducated questions, but it still makes the person asking it look 'uneducated'. Yes, I'm uneducated in the area how one's making an Unix-like system and userland, and why such way, and not another, for instance - and because of this I've sent a question to the mailing list, which was - as I thought until now - appropriate place. Why don't you trust our processes? I didn't write anything like that. It's your misinterpretation. [..] Let me be frank. Your questions are rude and thankless. Forget the question then. Didn't want to offence anyone. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Where I ma? [Was: Rolling release?]
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 06:37:48PM -0700, Chris Kuethe wrote: no need to reinstall - what are you smoking? Are you advocating that Is it possible to participate in this mailing list without being insulted for asking a question, being called by names and so on? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Where I ma? [Was: Rolling release?]
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:37PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: Your initial mails were not taken as questions. Most probably because I forgot about question marks. I'm sorry. OK, forget it. As I wrote: no offence. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Where I ma? [Was: Rolling release?]
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:10:39PM -0500, Tony Abernethy wrote: The developers do this the way they want to. They accomplish a lot with extremely limited resources. Yes, I appreciate the hard work of the devs. You and I do not even get to have an opinion. Of course, you have right to not have your own opinion. OK, quitting the thread - good night, sleep tight. -- You will remember, Watson, how the dreadful business of the Abernetty family was first brought to my notice by the depth which the parsley had sunk into the butter upon a hot day. -- Sherlock Holmes
Power button doesn't work properly
I would to have a possibility to make a proper shutdown just by pressing power button. So I've enabled apmd, and created a script /etc/apm/powerdown with the contents: #!/bin/sh /sbin/halt -p Unfortunately, the script doesn't seem to be called by apmd. When I press the power button, I'm getting the error message: apm0: APM set power state: unable to enter requested state (96) Of course, instead of proper shutdown, power outage follows - resulting in filesystem was not properly unmounted messages by next boot. Not sure, how to fix it. Actually, I didn't want from APM to enter any power state - just to execute /etc/apm/powerdown and nothing more. APM is enabled in BIOS - it's old BX-based motherboard (Abit BE6-II), so rather no problem with something unsupported - and apmd's introducing himself during startup: Apr 18 04:58:49 sarge /bsd: apm0 at bios0: Power Management spec V1.2 Apr 18 04:58:49 sarge /bsd: apm0: AC on, battery charge unknown Apr 18 04:58:49 sarge /bsd: apm0: flags 70102 dobusy 1 doidle 1 From that error message (unable to enter requested state) I understand, that button-press event is recognized by apmd. Perhaps there's a way to change its action - I mean: instead of trying to enter requested state (whatever it is), just to execute /etc/apm/powerdown ? OpenBSD 4.2 i386 -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: VIA Announces Strategic Open Source Driver Development Initiative
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 09:36:51PM +0200, Alexandre Ratchov wrote: - first, envy24 is a generic digital only chip; it's connected to up to 4 codecs that do the analog-digital conversions and that hold the gain knobs. So to add support for a new cards we must add support for its codecs, and we need to know how these codecs are wired to the envy24 chip, how gpio pins are used, etc... (this may require docs from the sound card manufacturer, not via) That's I was afraid of. afaik, these cards are based on envy24ht, not envy24. What do you think about (much cheaper) Chaintech AV-710? There's a version with envy24... perhaps someone's using this under OpenBSD? http://icrontic.com/articles/chaintech_av710_71_audio_card_review http://techgage.com/article/chaintech_av-710_71_sound_card/ http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/654 -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: VIA Announces Strategic Open Source Driver Development Initiative
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:25:50PM +0200, Alexandre Ratchov wrote: well, if both codecs and the digital chip are well documented, how they are connected is not too hard to guess. There's an EEPROM that gives hints. You're right: if. ;) But found some more info about the other chips: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Chaintech_AV-710 afaik, these cards are based on envy24ht, not envy24. What do you think about (much cheaper) Chaintech AV-710? There's a version with envy24... perhaps someone's using this under OpenBSD? http://icrontic.com/articles/chaintech_av710_71_audio_card_review http://techgage.com/article/chaintech_av-710_71_sound_card/ http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/654 according to the second link, it uses envy24HT so it will not work with the current envy(4) driver. FYI envy24 is also known as VT1712 or ICE1712. Esi-julia and AV-710 seem to use the VT1721. Perhaps I misunderstood that test at icrontic - there was a comparison of the chips, and this was suggesting, that there are four versions of the card; probably wrong conclusion. The testers are publishing a bit contradictory informations: f.e. on the page: http://techgage.com/article/chaintech_av-710_71_sound_card First you'll find: VIA ENVY 24PT, several verses down a remark: The heart of the card is the Envy24 HT-S Chipset - with a photo on the side. A photo of... ENVY 24PT. Immediately below - image of ENVY 24HT-S. :-O What a pity; the card has quite good reviews. OK, must look further... -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
envy24-based card for OpenBSD [was: VIA Announces...]
Found it - looks good, but it's an expensive one :/ what do you think about that other chips? Are they supported presently? http://www.digit-life.com/articles/maudioaudiophile/ * main chip - multichannel PCI controller ENVY24 from IC Ensemble; * I2S stereo codec AKM AK4528VF with the 24bit/96kHz DAC and ADC; * CS8427 digital transceiver; Also: http://www25.big.jp/~jam/audiocard/audiophile/ -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Resampling? [was: VIA Announces...]
I would to ask about the issue to be found under Linux - is it valid for OpenBSD's audio too? http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=93315 The latest versions of ALSA which are included with Ubuntu Edgy, and I think Dapper Drake as well, will resample all audio to 48kHz if your soundcard does not support hardware mixing. This is also true if the driver doesn't support hardware mixing. As far as I can tell, there is absolutely no support for hardware mixing with any of the Envy24 chips in Linux. The problem with this resampling is that by default ALSA uses a poor resampling algorithm to save CPU usage, and destroys the quality of everything played back. ALSA uses this software mixing and resampling in order to let more than one application play audio at the same time. I have found a solution to the audio quality issue however. [..] -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: envy24-based card for OpenBSD [was: VIA Announces...]
Maybe someone will find it useful: http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/audio/partners/partners_envy24.jsp -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: VIA Announces Strategic Open Source Driver Development Initiative
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 09:07:08PM +0200, frantisek holop wrote: It took us a very long time to get Sun to do this, and it was totally worth it. It is kind of strange to us to have Sun suddenly be the perfect example of openness. So, perhaps the best audio-option would be something using VIA Envy24(HT) - which is reportedly better than Audigy(2)? Time to swap? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: VIA Announces Strategic Open Source Driver Development Initiative
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 10:49:07PM +, Jacob Meuser wrote: So, perhaps the best audio-option would be something using VIA Envy24(HT) - which is reportedly better than Audigy(2)? Time to swap? envy(4) already exists in -current (and will be in 4.3). doesn't support the HT version though. Yes, I noticed it's there - but does the driver support all of the available capabilities? The VIA opening won't be of any help in this particular case? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: VIA Announces Strategic Open Source Driver Development Initiative
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 12:08:26AM +, Jacob Meuser wrote: Yes, I noticed it's there - but does the driver support all of the available capabilities? according to BUGS in envy(4), no. but emu(4) doesn't support all the features of the emu10k1 chips, either. I understand - but the mentioned VIA opening is suggesting, that perhaps completing the envy driver can be much easier, if VIA will release the docs; Creative Labs, unfortunately, still doesn't seem to be willing to. I'm not sure, nevertheless, if that envy24-related docs is enough; there are some other chips on the envy-fitted cards, anyway. The VIA opening won't be of any help in this particular case? at least some datasheets are/have been available: http://envy24.svobodno.com/datasheets/ I think, I'll have to make a comparison with Audigy soon... ;) as I can see, there are even (semi?)professional cards built using Envy; like f.e. this one: http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Firefox 2.0.0.12
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 02:51:32PM +0200, Dusty wrote: I use Seamonkey. It works. Why use Seamonkey? It is more resource friendly than running Firefox+Thunderbird+whatever. Both are starting in about the same - long - time: 20 seconds... :/ (Pentium II 400, 256 MB RAM, SATA drive, OpenBSD 4.2) Perhaps someone could make a tip, how could I make that start-up period shorter? Yes, I know: buy new hardware. Any other available solutions? There should be the other ones; on the NetBSD 3.1 Firefox is ready to work in about 4 seconds... quite a difference, isn't it? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Firefox 2.0.0.12
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 04:45:15PM +0200, Hannah Schroeter wrote: There should be the other ones; on the NetBSD 3.1 Firefox is ready to work in about 4 seconds... quite a difference, isn't it? Do they already do prebinding? AFAIK they have something called RelCache (aka ELF prebinding), f.e. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-userlevel/2002/12/04/0017.html You mean, exactly this is making a difference? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Firefox 2.0.0.12
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 07:03:43PM +0200, Pau wrote: In my case this does help ldconfig -SP /usr/bin /usr/sbin /usr/local/bin /usr/local/sbin /usr/X11R6/bin Just tried the sequence - can't see any difference, unfortunately. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Firefox 2.0.0.12
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 01:39:29PM -0700, Marco S Hyman wrote: ldconfig -SP /usr/bin /usr/sbin /usr/local/bin /usr/local/sbin /usr/X11R6/bin Just tried the sequence - can't see any difference, unfortunately. Not suprising as the firefox binary is not in any of the given paths. Yes, you're right... :-O didn't check, that which firefox returns just the location of startup script. But including its own sub-dir wasn't helpful neither; several failed to load errors. I'm afraid, one has to wait a little(?) for something a'la NetBSD's RelCache. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Firefox 2.0.0.12
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:50:21PM +, james wrote: Include /usr/local/mozilla-firefox in the ldconfig line and run the ldconfig command through /usr/local/mozilla-firefox/run-mozilla.sh (or manually set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to include /usr/local/mozilla-firefox) I think, the latter method is better suitable for including individual cases. Or perhaps: would be, instead of is - because there's still no desired effect. I can't see any difference. I'm afraid, it can't be solved right now; currently it's just the way it is, and one has to live with that. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Firefox 2.0.0.12
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 11:56:29PM +0200, Daniel Horecki wrote: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-userlevel/2002/12/04/0017.html You mean, exactly this is making a difference? If I recall correctly, it was never commited to the sources. Anyway, NetBSD haven't any prelink/prebind feature now. So what exactly is making firefox's startup time under NetBSD much shorter? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: GTK2 - solved
Thanks to Andreas' help: I forgot, that I had C_INCLUDE_PATH manually set before... yes, when it doesn't interfere, all compiles OK. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
GTK2 - what's wrong?
/include/glib-2.0/glib/gspawn.h:24, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkspawn.h:26, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdk.h:52, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:31, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/glib-2.0/glib/gtypes.h:391: error: redefinition of `struct _GTimeVal' In file included from /usr/local/include/glib-2.0/glib/gerror.h:24, from /usr/local/include/glib-2.0/glib/gspawn.h:24, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdkspawn.h:26, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdk.h:52, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:31, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/glib-2.0/glib/gquark.h:41: error: conflicting types for `g_quark_to_string' /usr/local/include/glib-1.2/glib.h:1784: error: previous declaration of `g_quark_to_string' In file included from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:31, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gdk/gdk.h:69: error: syntax error before '*' token In file included from /usr/local/include/atk-1.0/atk/atkeditabletext.h:24, from /usr/local/include/atk-1.0/atk/atk.h:27, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkaccessible.h:23, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:36, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/atk-1.0/atk/atktext.h:209: error: syntax error before gunichar /usr/local/include/atk-1.0/atk/atktext.h:293: error: syntax error before atk_text_get_character_at_offset In file included from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkselection.h:34, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkclipboard.h:25, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:62, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtktextiter.h:104: error: syntax error before gtk_text_iter_get_char /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtktextiter.h:258: error: syntax error before ch In file included from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtktreeview.h:27, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkcombobox.h:25, from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:68, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkentry.h:107: error: syntax error before gunichar /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkentry.h:150: error: syntax error before gunichar /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkentry.h:151: error: syntax error before gtk_entry_get_invisible_char In file included from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:106, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkimcontextsimple.h:49: error: syntax error before gunichar In file included from /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtk.h:118, from base.c:1: /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkmain.h:99: error: syntax error before GOptionEntry /usr/local/include/gtk-2.0/gtk/gtkmain.h:103: error: syntax error before '*' token #v- -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Any Audigy users here?
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 09:02:21PM -0700, Predrag Punosevac wrote: The question is which Audigy? Creative makes wide variety of cards sold under that name and even the known one are sometime sold with different chip version (usually undocumented when they switch a chip). It's Sound Blaster Audigy SB1394 SB0230 Not tried the recording, but playing is OK - with the exception, that I can't use both outputs. OSS of course is not ported for OpenBSD because until recently was closed source binary only package. OSS is now released under BSD license. You mean: presently one can't rely on the drivers from 4Front Technologies? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Any Audigy users here?
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 07:29:03AM +, Jacob Meuser wrote: last I tried/heard, Creative wants an NDA to give out hardware specs. I've looked at adding multi-channel support to emu(4). I'm guessing that's what you mean by sound on both outputs. it's not likely to happen. emu(4) is ugly wrt channel handling :( And it was not possible to find the needed information in ALSA sources? Audigy and Audigy2 support was back-ported from the Haiku driver for emu10k1, which is based on the emuxki driver we have. if you really want to extend emu(4), your best bet is to do more back-porting from there. Perhaps the only option for today, as I see... -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Any Audigy users here?
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 11:17:13AM -0700, Predrag Punosevac wrote: You lost me here. Do you think that ALSA driver will help you any how to produce oss driver? You are aware of the fact that ALSA is 100% incompatible with oss and that even 4Front Technologies Yes, you're right; but I didn't mean porting ALSA to OpenBSD. I was hoping, that one could find there some additional information f.e. about register setting, and so on. But no - didn't try it personally (yet). -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Any Audigy users here?
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 07:52:20PM +, Jacob Meuser wrote: if you want surround sound, check cmpci(4), uaudio(4), auvia(4) (though, recording is broken on 8233 based devices) or maybe azalia(4). and definitely upgrade to 4.3 when it's released (or run -current, especially if you want to do fun stuff with audio ;). You know, the problem is, that: 1. I've got exactly an Audigy, which I wouldn't to replace with other, just because it gives quite good sound quality, and it has firewire on-board (didn't made use of this until now, but perhaps one day...). 2. It's not the question of surround sound; pay attention, that it would be very comfortable to have both outputs activated, just because there's no need to manually switch from headphones to speakers (or back), when you want to listen something on private. Just to change mixer setting could be enough in such case, and both speakers and headphones can be connected all the time. 3. I'm asking about this, because I'm wondering, how difficult could be to port softphone application to OpenBSD - I'm considering two: linphone and tclphone. It's very likely, that the latter would be much easier. And exactly when using softphones having a possibility to mute one output and activate the second one (and the opposite, when talk is finished) is very comfortable solution. Yes, perhaps I must complete my (very narrow at the moment) knowledge about soundcards and soundcard-drivers, and then to make a try to activate that second output. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Any Audigy users here?
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 05:22:14PM -0700, Predrag Punosevac wrote: OpenBSD 4.3 is including PJSUA http://www.pjsip.org/pjsua.htm I tried it and I really like it. If you compare various SIP clients you should see that PJSUA should be a first choice for security minded user which prefers simplicity and capability instead of GUI non-sense. Thanks, I prefer text mode - so, the conclusion for me is to wait for 4.3 final; as I can see on the web pages, it'll be not more, than a month. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Any Audigy users here?
I'm unable to have sound on both outputs available in Audigy. Perhaps any Audigy owner could make a tip, how can I achieve that (if that's possible at all, using current audio driver)? OpenBSD 4.2 -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: What is our ultimate goal??
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 09:07:50AM +0100, Alexander Hall wrote: The suggestion about installing packages into /whatever is fine if stated as a suggestion and/or question. I do not agree, but still I think the question is valid. However, adding It doesn't need any funding to fix this. makes it seem like a mistake that is trivial to fix, and I can understand if that pisses Marc off. ...however it was just an answer to Michael Dexters suggestion... (read the thread). BTW, think about all ports with hardcoded paths to /usr/local/dependency. One might argue that those ports are broken, but I'd guess there are quite a lot of them. Hardcoded? So, changing LOCALBASE could be even dangerous, I'm afraid. Nothing can I do then with this. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: What is our ultimate goal??
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 08:12:46AM -0600, Tony Abernethy wrote: Fair No. It is like dead fish after 4 days. Actually, what was private in that message? You don't have to wonder, what. Any correspondence, which hasn't been sent to the public, is private - and needs the agreement of the party to be published. Especially such emotional one. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: What is our ultimate goal??
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 12:52:35AM -0600, Tony Abernethy wrote: I may be an oaf, but it is with FULL REALIZATION THAT I AM SENDING THIS TO THE LIST MY PURPOSE IN DOING SO IS TO PAINT YOU WITH SOMEHTING RESEMBLING YOUR TRUE COLORS. Is it fair? Some day, someone other will forward _your_ private correspondence to the public. If you don't like your opponents attitude - just stop talking to him, and it's enough. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: What is our ultimate goal??
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 08:42:13AM -0600, Tony Abernethy wrote: If you mean it is now my private property, then I am free to do with it as I please. Otherwise, if it should be kept private, maybe it should be kept private. Why should a discussion of threads be souch an emotional one? Do the threads have feeling now? I'm pretty sure - I'm supposing this in your favor - that you know, what I mean. The semantics used above isn't going to change anything; we aren't in court at the trial here, anyway. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: need some help with base httpd
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 08:50:34PM +1300, Richard Toohey wrote: After spending the weekend testing this every which way and searching the net and archives to no avail, [..] [..] From the manual ... ^^ [..] So it would suggest that you CANNOT use Include within Directory? See, System Administrator? Remember: #v+ OpenBSD is an OS developed by very intelligent THINKING people with its sole target audience being other THINKING persons. For the thousands of lusers too lazy to use an option already made available by the native tools -- there are thousands of flavors of Linux, at least one of which will do things consistent with your desires. For the totally ^^^ illiterate lusers who cannot even read the docs to find the said option ^^^ -- there is always Windoze whose stated goal is to save the users from ^^ themselves. #v- ...if you knew the above (one THINKING man said it today) - you could save your weekend. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: need some help with base httpd
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 09:08:36PM +0100, Stefan Kell wrote: Bullshit, Bullshit? Check out, please, who wrote the quoted words... ;] not much to search: today's mails only (tip: What is our ultimate goal?? thread) -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: What is our ultimate goal??
On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 12:42:38AM +0100, Marc Espie wrote: You're an idiot. [..] Think about it. Idiots don't think. If you didn't knew it - you're even bigger idiot, than I am. Thanks for conversation. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: What is our ultimate goal??
On Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 10:20:22PM -0500, System Administrator wrote: To the majority on this list -- my apologies if I end up feeding this troll instead of making him 'go away'. to the OP -- this is why you got absolutely NO answer from the devs. and now for the archives in the hopes that at least some of the future would be posters will research before posting. [..] It could have been said much shorter: you've got no idea, why I've got no answer - but you wanted to make a statement what is OpenBSD (IYHO). That's all. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: setting up a noiseless workstation]]
On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 01:23:08AM +0200, Imre Oolberg wrote: But I am surprised people aint using much VIA low-power offerings like C3, Eden or C7 in a form of mini-itx motherboard. I was using during almost 2 years VIA C3-700 - and this one didn't need any cooler (the stronger ones needed...) - but it had, in practice, less power than Pentium II 400. Which is fanless as well. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: setting up a noiseless workstation
On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 08:16:49PM +0200, Imre Oolberg wrote: As an operating system my first choice would OpenBSD and second is Linux. In fact at the moment i run such a kind of setup using Linux but i feel need to upgrade my hardware, i have old 700 MHz Celeron, 19 monitor (1024x768) and 100MBit/s network. I would be very thankful if somebody could share their experience about putting together such a kind of computer or what do you recommend. You can use old Pentium II 400 MHz - there are still many of them available, which doesn't need any cooler, its radiator will do. Such way the only moving part would be PS-fan, which you can slow down a little, using a resistor 50-100 Ohm - additionally reducing a noise. Full Pentium II with 400 MHz clock will give you in practice about as much power, as that Celeron 700 (a little less, but not that much). -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: setting up a noiseless workstation
On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 11:32:59PM +0100, Martin Schrvder wrote: You can use old Pentium II 400 MHz - there are still many of them available, which doesn't need any cooler, its radiator will do. Such way the only And where do you get a PCI graphics card with DVI capable of doing 1920x1200? ...and why exactly PCI? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Test Limerick, please ignore
On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 10:40:06AM -0600, Denny White wrote: Though warned not to test on the list, The rascal just couldn't resist. If you mean me - thanks, Danny; I love you too. 1. Any test messages, which I've sent, reached the list several hours (some even more than 24) after submission - and I had no idea at all until then, that it'll finally appear on the list. 2. Any warnings I've received - I've received several hours *after* I've sent last message. 3. I really don't know any other way to test, whether the mail will reach the list, than... to just send it to the list. Perhaps you - smart guy, as I can see - will tell me different way to test access to the list without sending anything to the list. As test messages grew, It was found that the crew, On misc@ were all really pissed! 4. It's really a pity, that *all* (?) of you prefer to see my difficulties as some kind of bad will or list abuse; and nowhere could I see a message like: perhaps he needs some help?. I don't want to believe, this is usual attitude among OpenBSD community members. Really unbelievable. 5. What a nice, helpful and kind man you are, dennyboy. Your mother should be so proud, indeed. Just out of curiosity: what really a difference can you see between my tests - and this, for example, thread, whish is just about nothing (limericks)? I can see at least one: I *had* to make some tests, I was in contact with the list admin - but you don't have to show off here, with your poetry. Seems, you want to. That's the second - and last - explaining from my side. I want to add, that such (over)reaction of several persons is very disappointing to me. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Re: Test Limerick, please ignore
On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 03:22:24PM -0800, J.C. Roberts wrote: Please restart humord(1) before reading this list or you will continue to be very disappointed. (; Well, OK - let's get over it... ;) -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Test, please ignore...
Just testing; sorry for inconvenience. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
2 questions from new user: wsconscfg and /usr/local
Hallo, I'm pretty new to OpenBSD, I've installed recently newest stable 4.2 (i386). I would to ask here about two things, this time: - starting the system I'm loading different VGA charset - unfortunately, although system initializes consoles by default in VT220 emulation mode, wsconscfg (which I had to use when loading new charset) switches them to VT100, of limited (comparing to VT220) functionality. I see no parameter to keep VT220. Is it possible some other way, which I don't know yet? - I noticed, that the default path, where software from binaries and ports gets unpacked, is /usr/local hierarchy; unfortunately, it's also the traditional default of every individual source *.tar.gz package - such way the software ported to OpenBSD gets mixed with any other package, which I had installed. Wouldn't be reasonable to create new hierarchy, especially for the native OpenBSD software (from binary packages and ports) - I mean something like /usr/pkg in NetBSD? What do you think? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Just testing - ignore, please...
It's just a test. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Console mode problems
Hallo, I'm new to OpenBSD, I've recently installed newest version - 4.2 (i386) - and noticed some problems while working in console mode: 1. I'm loading console font set, which is including national characters - the first problem is, that wsconscfg doesn't want to init consoles using default VT220 emulation. Everytime, when I've got to use wsconscfg (it's written into /etc/rc.local anyway...), it's using VT100 - although the system itself seems to be able to initialize consoles as VT220 (when not using wsconscfg). I would to keep VT220 emulation on all consoles, because it's the most comfortable way to have proper colours in curses-based programs (when setting TERM=wsvt25). Unfortunately, wsconscfg doesn't accept vt220 as parameter. Can it be changed? 2. The second problem is with function keys, especially annoying when using f.e. Midnight Commander. Playing with terminal settings, I noticed that changing - in the section wsvt25 of /usr/share/misc/termcap - the definition: tc=vt220 to: tc=ecma+color seems to be a cure for this problem (no side effects noticed). I'm not sure, whether this problem with F-keys is caused by faulty terminal definition, or bug in ncurses rather? 3. The third problem is, that even having console initialized as VT220 with wsvt25 definition (modified the way described above) there are still some little false colour choices anyway (it can be seen f.e. on the bottom line of mc, the one with description of function keys). But when one runs screen (having wsvt25 on VT220), at last the console is working fully properly. Well, this third paragraph is not a question, but an example of workaround how to obtain the proper results rather. But perhaps someone does know answer to previous two? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
2 questions from new user: wsconscfg and /usr/local
Hallo everybody, I'm pretty new to OpenBSD, I've installed recently newest stable 4.2 (i386). This time I would to ask here about two things: - starting the system I'm loading different VGA charset - unfortunately, although system initializes consoles by default in VT220 emulation mode, wsconscfg (which I had to use when loading new charset) switches them to VT100, of limited (comparing to VT220) functionality. I see no parameter to keep VT220. Is there some other way available, which I don't know yet? - I noticed, that default path, where software from binary pkg and ports gets unpacked, is /usr/local hierarchy - unfortunately, it's also the traditional default of every individual source *.tar.gz package - such way the software ported to OpenBSD gets mixed with any other package, which I had installed. Wouldn't be reasonable to create new hierarchy, especially for the native OpenBSD software (from binary packages and ports) - I mean: something like /usr/pkg in NetBSD? What do you think? -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
One more try (sorry) - please ignore...
Testing: still problems... -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
Apologies - there were troubles with (new?) list protection
I'm sorry, that I had to test several times the connection to the list - but it was done in strict cooperation with Mr. Todd C. Miller, list maintainer and administrator. There were problems with list protection, and - at first - my mails were considered filtered, which - as we can see - weren't the case. It seems, that all is fully functional now. Sorry for all inconvenience. -- pozdrawiam / regards Zbigniew Baniewski
