Re: Apache::Session benchmarks
FYI-- here are some Apache::Session benchmark results. As with all benchmarks, this may not be applicable to you. Thanks for taking the time to run these and write up the results. Benchmark: This benchmark measures the time taken to do a create/read for 1000 sessions. It does not destroy sessions, i.e. it assumes a user base that browses around arbitrarily and then just leaves (i.e. does not log out, and so session cleanup can't easily be done). It would be interesting to see how the options perform with different mixes of read/write traffic, i.e. not writing every time as you are in your current code. Maybe not that big a deal, since we can assume more writes will have worse performance across the board, but it would also be interesting to see how locking issues might come into play if you were using different lock managers. And the next step from there would be to run the test from many processes in parallel and see how they do. Apache::Session::File - Dual-PIII-600/512MB/Linux 2.2.14SMP: Ran 4 times. First time: ~2.2s. Second time: ~5.0s. Third time: ~8.4s. Fourth time: ~12.2s. Is there any reason not to use a file tree approach (splitting first and second characters of filenames into separate directories) like mod_proxy does? This seems like a pretty easy solution to the problem of degraded performance on larger sets of data. Question: does anyone know how to pre-specify the _session_id for the session, rather than allowing Apache::Session to set it and read it? I saw some posts about it a while back, but no code... Isn't it just this? tie %session, 'Apache::Session::Foobar', $id; - Perrin
Authentication Using PWD
I want to Authenticate through the PWD interface in telnet in the CommuniGate Pro mail server. I got connected to the server at port 106 (default), but I can't type a thing at the console. Please help Koh Kok Wei Web Developer Dream Tree (M) Sdn. Bhd. Level 59, Tower 2, Petronas Twin Towers Kuala Lumpur City Centre 50088 Kuala Lumpur MALAYSIA Mobile: +6012-2310095 Tel: +603-3820667 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.biodata.com
Re: Apache::Session benchmarks
Question: does anyone know how to pre-specify the _session_id for the session, rather than allowing Apache::Session to set it and read it? I saw some posts about it a while back, but no code... Isn't it just this? tie %session, 'Apache::Session::Foobar', $id; That only works if the session id already exists. If the session id doesn't exists, Apache::Session will throw an exception (die) I run into the same problem with Embperl. I send a patch against Apache::Session to Jeffery to allow this (and other things), but he didn't incorporated it and instead created a separte class for it. Since it was easier to maintain this class is now part of the Embperl distribution. HTML::Embperl::Session is a sub class of Apache::Session and allows you to specify the id, even if it doesn't already exists, along with a set of flags what to do in various cases (create new one, if the id doesn't exists; create the specified id or die) Gerald
Re: mod_perl in chroot environment
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
At 09:58 AM 12/11/00 +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
For example, perhaps the mod_perl server and the HTML/images server should
be separately chrooted from each other? That way, someone who breaks the
dynamic script won't be able to mess with the frontpage of the website to
deface it assuming the hacker could get around permissions issues within
the chroot jail.
Why do you need the proxy server to be chrooted at all? what does that
gain you. After all if apache is insecure, you can break out of the
chroot()ed jail anyway.
If Apache is insecure it's not necessarily possible to break out of the
chrooted jail. It depends on if the part of Apache that grabs the socket is
insecure which is a tiny part of Apache.
Ah. I see what you're getting at. By insecure I really meant that you
could achieve root. I see that if you were trying to read files on the
system, yes, a chroot would help.
Apache itself is large and complex and if you are talking about a front-end
server, you are talking about having at minimum mod_proxy, mod_rewrite and
maybe even mod_backhand. These modules are not trivial code but breaking
them wouldn't allow someone to break out of the chroot jail with root
privileges.
yes, you can only break out of the jail once you have achieved root.
BTW, OT Question on the subject -- does anyone know if /chroot/etc/shadow
necessary once the chroot jail is in effect? The author creates a shadow
If you can't break up to root in the jail, then you don't need to worry
about a shadow file.
Well, you've lost if you break root inside a traditional chroot() (as
opposed to FreeBSD4's jail() -
1) attacker can mknod() (and can therefore attack kmem.
2) attacker can call chroot()
- int j; mkdir("./bin"); chroot("./bin");
for(j=0;jPATH_MAX;j++) chdir(".."); chroot(".");
Doesn't this require the root ID in order to issue .. chroots? I may be
misunderstanding this portion of your statement.
Yes, but I'm showing that in a traditional chroot, if the attacker can get
root (in order to read the /chroot-path/etc/shadow file), then you've lost
anyway, because he can break out of the jail by the trick above.
In which case the shadow file can be there. What isn't there is a way to
get root (any suid programs or similar). You hope. :)
I agree that it's an important point to make is that any binary copied
to the chroot jail should not be suid root as that would allow a point
of attack.
That's why chroot() is useful. :)
MBM
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Re: Apache::Session benchmarks
Gerald Richter sent the following bits through the ether: That only works if the session id already exists. If the session id doesn't exists, Apache::Session will throw an exception (die) The documentation implies that is it currently possible to do so. I'd love for it to be possible to do so, but I can't seem to contact Jeffrey. Was it a complicated patch? Cheers, Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/ ... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!
Re: Linux Hello World: TT Optimized...
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Jeremy Howard wrote: Joshua Chamas wrote: If you are using CGI.pm object methods, I would worry about calling all those methods to build your HTML and if you are performance minded, I would use them frugally. IIRC, CGI.pm is actually slower to run the functional syntax than the object syntax. This is because accessing CGI's functions end up getting dispatched through a complex autoload(ish) mechanism. I haven't benchmarked this though, so it's only theory! It's documentated and benchmarked in the guide: http://perl.apache.org/guide/performance.html#Object_Methods_Calls_vs_Functio http://perl.apache.org/guide/performance.html#Are_All_Methods_Slower_than_Func _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://apachetoday.com http://logilune.com/ http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: Apache::Session benchmarks
Gerald Richter sent the following bits through the ether: That only works if the session id already exists. If the session id doesn't exists, Apache::Session will throw an exception (die) The documentation implies that is it currently possible to do so. But the perl code shows that it doesn't work. For example Store/DBI.pm in the function materialize die's when it doesn't find the row with the id you given in the database. It's the same for other Stores. I'd love for it to be possible to do so, but I can't seem to contact Jeffrey. Was it a complicated patch? it overrides the the TIEHASH method in Session.pm. It wasn't too hard, but I don't have a patch for Session.pm that comes with Apache::Session 1.53, but you can simply use HTML::Embperl::Session instead of Apache::Session, which works with Apache::Session 1.00 and 1.5x and which should work also outside of Embperl. perldoc HTML::Embperl::Session shows the additional attributes you can pass to tie. The rest remains the same as with Apache::Session. Gerald
Document Contained No Data
I am trying to convert a cgi script to a mod_perl script, however when I try to run the script I can a "Document contained no data error". I was wondering if there are some standard causes for this kind of error. Thanks in advance for any help. Joe Grastara Project Assistant Digital Media Center The Skirball Institute Of Biomolecular Medicine New York University Medical Center 540 First Ave., New York City, NY 10016 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.med.nyu.edu/graphics
Problems with Apache::ASP, SSI/Filter, and Redirects
We have a strange problem using Redirects with Apache::ASP 2.03.
With this in the .htaccess file:
# .asp files for Session state enabled
Files ~ (\.asp)
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler Apache::ASP
PerlSetVar CookiePath /
PerlSetVar Global /path/to/asp/directory
PerlSetVar StateDir /path/to/state/directory
/Files
the following works correctly:
$Response-Redirect("/index.html");
However, if we change the .htaccess file to set up ASP to handle SSI:
# .asp files for Session state enabled
Files ~ (\.asp)
SetHandler perl-script
PerlHandler Apache::ASP Apache::SSI
PerlSetVar Filter On
PerlSetVar CookiePath /
PerlSetVar Global /path/to/asp/directory
PerlSetVar StateDir /path/to/state/directory
/Files
it doesn't work.
Here is the result from each:
(with first .htaccess file)
% telnet test.site.com 80
Trying x.x.x.x...
Connected to test.site.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
get /test.asp HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:03:13 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.14 (Unix) mod_perl/1.24_01 mod_ssl/2.7.1
OpenSSL/0.9.5a
Set-Cookie: session-id=6f995b76dccf9e0a96533aa2aacd3b60; path=/
Location: /index.html
Cache-Control: private
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Connection closed by foreign host.
(with second .htaccess file)
% telnet test.site.com 80
Trying x.x.x.x...
Connected to test.site.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
get /test.asp HTTP/1.0
Connection closed by foreign host.
We have Apache::Filter version 1.011 and Apache::SSI version 2.13.
Any ideas?
-m
--
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Re: Document Contained No Data
I am trying to convert a cgi script to a mod_perl script, however when I try to run the script I can a "Document contained no data error". I was wondering if there are some standard causes for this kind of error. http://perl.apache.org/guide/debug.html#Curing_The_Internal_Server_Erro Thanks in advance for any help. Joe Grastara Project Assistant Digital Media Center The Skirball Institute Of Biomolecular Medicine New York University Medical Center 540 First Ave., New York City, NY 10016 USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.med.nyu.edu/graphics _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://apachetoday.com http://logilune.com/ http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: Document Contained No Data
The most likely cause of this error is that your script is only
sending the http headers and not any content.
That said, there are several other things that could go wrong along
the way. For example, if your script's output ... most likely
$r-print("here is some stuff") ... is a single line of text or a
scalar that contains a single line of text, you will need to append a
single new-line character to force your client to display the output.
Also, your script might contain a logic error or an unscoped variable
that makes the content you are trying to generate undefinied.
As always check the error log for clues. If you are sure that content
is being sent to the client there might be something more sinister at
work, and you might want to post the relevant code and error log to
the group.
Joe Grastara once wrote:
I am trying to convert a cgi script to a mod_perl script, however when I
try to run the script I can a "Document contained no data error". I was
wondering if there are some standard causes for this kind of error.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Joe Grastara
Project Assistant
Digital Media Center
The Skirball Institute Of Biomolecular Medicine
New York University Medical Center
540 First Ave., New York City, NY 10016 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.med.nyu.edu/graphics
#---#
# Brett Paden #
# http://www.trimeros.com #
# [EMAIL PROTECTED]#
#---#
Mod_perl vs mod_php
Does anyone have any mod_perl vs. mod_php benchmarks? Jimi begin:vcard n:Thompson;Jimi tel;pager:877-309-2784 tel;cell:817-980-7863 tel;work:817-619-3612 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:hww adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] fn:Jimi Thompson end:vcard
modperl back up
Hi All, As of last Friday, www.modperl.com is back up. The Apache::MP3 demo no longer works, unfortunately, because the thieves stole the hard disk that all the MP3s were on. I'm hoping to get it working again this week. Thank you for the several offers of help that I received. Lincoln -- Lincoln D. Stein Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cold Spring Harbor, NY NOW HIRING BIOINFORMATICS POSTDOCTORAL FELLOWS AND PROGRAMMERS. PLEASE WRITE FOR DETAILS.
Re: Apache::Session benchmarks
Perrin Harkins wrote: Apache::Session::File - Dual-PIII-600/512MB/Linux 2.2.14SMP: Ran 4 times. First time: ~2.2s. Second time: ~5.0s. Third time: ~8.4s. Fourth time: ~12.2s. Is there any reason not to use a file tree approach (splitting first and second characters of filenames into separate directories) like mod_proxy does? This seems like a pretty easy solution to the problem of degraded performance on larger sets of data. If you use File::Cache for storage, then it does this for you, to a user-defined depth.
Re: Mod_perl vs mod_php
"Jimi" == Jimi Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jimi Does anyone have any mod_perl vs. mod_php benchmarks? Perl code gets 0 performance on PHP. PHP code likewise gets 0 performance on Perl. Given that, you've got to write different code on both, and you can probably always come up with enough variance that you can make benchmarks show whatever you want them to show. Given *that*, what's your real question? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
cookies cookies cookies
How do I reliably remove a cookie from a browser's memory? I've only just begun to experiment but it seems if I set the cookie to "" or undef Apache::ASP doesn't send the right headers to remove the cookie. (Actually undef seems to corrupt the cookie). I could just write a handler to set the header appropriately but I'm not even sure what I should be putting in the header. -- greg
Re: Apache::Session benchmarks
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Jeremy Howard wrote: Perrin Harkins wrote: Apache::Session::File - Dual-PIII-600/512MB/Linux 2.2.14SMP: Ran 4 times. First time: ~2.2s. Second time: ~5.0s. Third time: ~8.4s. Fourth time: ~12.2s. Is there any reason not to use a file tree approach (splitting first and second characters of filenames into separate directories) like mod_proxy does? This seems like a pretty easy solution to the problem of degraded performance on larger sets of data. If you use File::Cache for storage, then it does this for you, to a user-defined depth. Which begs the question, is there any reason not to combine these modules into Hash::Persistent or something? - Perrin
Trouble building HTML_Tree
Can't load '../blib/arch/auto/HTML/Tree/Tree.so' for module HTML::Tree: ../blib/arch/auto/HTML/Tree/Tree.so: Undefined symbol "__builtin_delete" at /usr/libdata/perl/5.00503/DynaLoader.pm line 169. Any idea? I'm sure someone has run into this before. System is FreeBSD 4.1 Thanks in advance. Ian
Re: cookies cookies cookies
Greg Stark wrote:
How do I reliably remove a cookie from a browser's memory? I've only just
begun to experiment but it seems if I set the cookie to "" or undef
Apache::ASP doesn't send the right headers to remove the cookie. (Actually
undef seems to corrupt the cookie). I could just write a handler to set the
header appropriately but I'm not even sure what I should be putting in the
header.
What about setting the cookie with an expires date in the past?
$Response-{Cookies}{YourCookie} = {
Value = '',
Expires = -86400,
};
-- Josh
_
Joshua Chamas Chamas Enterprises Inc.
NodeWorks free web link monitoring Huntington Beach, CA USA
http://www.nodeworks.com1-714-625-4051
Re: Linux Hello World: TT Optimized...
On Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 10:14:56PM -0800, Joshua Chamas wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you please explain the differences between CGI Raw and CGI.pm? I'm using oo method of CGI. The Raw CGI test makes no use of CGI.pm, just issues raw print statements that sets up the right CGI headers. Please note that the number that I reported showed a difference of .00065 seconds of system time per request between CGI.pm Raw CGI HelloWorld, so I wouldn't much worry about the environment overhead. Oh you meant cgi. CGI should be reserved for CGI.pm stuff. I don't use CGI's html functions at all because I just don't see much saving in terms of typing. I guess I am in between your 'RAW' case and CGI.pm case I only use CGI's param,header,cookie and redirect functions and DISABLE_UPLOADS and POST_MAX variables. Given that real handler is the second best performer after static html I wonder how big of a step from using Registry to writing a handler. I know I can rely on CGI because it is time tested. I wonder whether there are CGI equivalent modules if I don't use handler. I read earlier that CGI alternatives have some problems. If you are using CGI.pm object methods, I would worry about calling all those methods to build your HTML and if you are performance minded, I would use them frugally. --Josh
Re: Mod_perl vs mod_php
Maybe he meant php hello world vs perl hello world? On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 01:16:59PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: "Jimi" == Jimi Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jimi Does anyone have any mod_perl vs. mod_php benchmarks? Perl code gets 0 performance on PHP. PHP code likewise gets 0 performance on Perl. Given that, you've got to write different code on both, and you can probably always come up with enough variance that you can make benchmarks show whatever you want them to show. Given *that*, what's your real question? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: Mod_perl vs mod_php
Does anyone have any mod_perl vs. mod_php benchmarks? Given the fact you are the good programmer either would be about the same. If you can't program your way out of a paper bag, benchmarks won't help you. Benchmarks are for managers, are you the one? pavel
Segmentation fault
Does anyone have problem with Apache 1.3.12 / Mod_perl 1.24 making it's childs do segmentation faults whenever the server requested to execute a perl module? If I request a piece of graphics, it works fine, but not if the page is generated by mod_perl. I have no compile errors, all the modules works on the previous development machine but not this newly installed machine. The only difference I can see, is that I installed perl 5.6.0 before installing the mod_perl apache, should that cause any problems? The system is running on FreeBSD 4.2. // Per Moeller
Re: Mod_perl vs mod_php
"newsreader" == newsreader [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: newsreader Maybe he meant php hello world vs perl hello world? And the point of such a comparison would be... what? The real costs of a web application these days are the total product costs, not the transactions-per-second costs. Until you're getting Yahoo-number hits, does it really matter whether something takes 1 second vs 3 seconds to process? And even then, shouldn't you be more worried about which of these two systems better supports 304 responses and data caching and dependency tracking, instead of which one executes a useless static page faster? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: Trouble building HTML_Tree
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Ian Mahuron wrote: Can't load '../blib/arch/auto/HTML/Tree/Tree.so' for module HTML::Tree: ../blib/arch/auto/HTML/Tree/Tree.so: Undefined symbol "__builtin_delete" at /usr/libdata/perl/5.00503/DynaLoader.pm line 169. Any idea? I'm sure someone has run into this before. 1. Did it build correctly? 2. Is libstdc++.so in LD_LIBRARY_PATH? I don't have access to a FreeBSD box to test. - Paul
RE: Segmentation fault
I've seen a similar issue on our machine. We're running: - mod_perl 1.24 - apache 1.3.12-25 - RedHat 7.0 - plenty of spare RAM and only when we include certain of our own Perl modules in startup.pl do we see the following in the error_log: [Mon Dec 11 13:11:17 2000] [notice] child pid 2991 exit signal Segmentation fault (11) If we only use these certain modules in our mod_perl scripts (and not in startup.pl), the segmentation faults don't occur. I was unable to spend any time on tracking the bug down, but I'd also be curious to hear more about this issue and any suggestions. Alex Algard -Original Message- From: Per Moeller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 2:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Segmentation fault Does anyone have problem with Apache 1.3.12 / Mod_perl 1.24 making it's childs do segmentation faults whenever the server requested to execute a perl module? If I request a piece of graphics, it works fine, but not if the page is generated by mod_perl. I have no compile errors, all the modules works on the previous development machine but not this newly installed machine. The only difference I can see, is that I installed perl 5.6.0 before installing the mod_perl apache, should that cause any problems? The system is running on FreeBSD 4.2. // Per Moeller
Re: cookies cookies cookies
At 01:47 PM 12/12/00, Joshua Chamas wrote:
Greg Stark wrote:
How do I reliably remove a cookie from a browser's memory?
Then Josh said:
What about setting the cookie with an expires date in the past?
$Response-{Cookies}{YourCookie} = {
Value = '',
Expires = -86400,
};
In most cases, this will only work for a cookie that is an _exact_
match with the one you wish to expire. This is really hard to do
if your code didn't write the cookie, since most browsers will use
the 'path' and 'domain' values to evaluate exactness, but do not
send those values to you in a request, obscuring them.
While writing a cookie handling library, I found it necessary to
trash my cookies file when things got weird, since writing code
to remove cookies that were the result of bad code seemed a waste
of time. Once it was stable it worked rather well, assuming that
calls to the library were consistent about 'path' and 'domain'.
Unless you're required to use 'path', I recommend that you explicitly
set 'path' to '/' on all set cookie operations, and similarly make
use of a canonical 'domain' value. Then it will be easy to construct
'kill cookies'. Otherwise, you'll have to construct logic to determine
the right 'path' and 'domain' for a particular cookie (yech).
-jh
Re: Mod_perl vs mod_php
On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 02:53:30PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: "newsreader" == newsreader [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: newsreader Maybe he meant php hello world vs perl hello world? And the point of such a comparison would be... what? it will be to publish in your favorite magazine/web site/mailing list/whatever Did you miss chamas' hello world thread? I don't really care for benchmark myself but your point they way I understand was that it was not possible to make benchmark comparison. In fact in theory it is possible even beyond hello world. Take two programmers from perl and php worlds and give them the same problem. It *is* possible to make a comparison of the resultant applications. Purely technical comparison. The real costs of a web application these days are the total product Now you are talking about something other than technical comparison. Wouldn't that be like saying "ferrari has a bigger top speed than corolla does but so what corolla gets better gas mileage." It all depends on how benchmark is to be used. transactions-per-second is an important factor that determines whether or not somebody will come back to your site, I think. So if you are shooting for yahoo like numbers maybe you should start thinking transaction-per-second. you are the one who frequently touts the virtue of writing a real handler instead of using registry?? what is your point about such energetic touting? What I really like to see compared is the development time of php vs perl code for a given problem. I've read ad nauseam about perl development time being shorter than C. How does php compare to perl in this regard, I wonder. costs, not the transactions-per-second costs. Until you're getting Yahoo-number hits, does it really matter whether something takes 1 second vs 3 seconds to process? And even then, shouldn't you be more worried about which of these two systems better supports 304 responses and data caching and dependency tracking, instead of which one executes a useless static page faster? -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
anyone had luck compiling apache-1.3.14 w/ mod_perl-1.24_01on aix 4.3.3?
the Makefile.PL doesn't even work... can't find any references to specific problems, figured i'd check before getting into the gory details... -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer St. Chicago, IL 60647 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 800-762-1582
Re: Mod_perl vs mod_php
Please read the archives of this list before asking for Perl/PHP comparisons. It has been discussed ad nauseum. There are many good search interfaces for the list archives that will direct you to the previous posts. - Perrin
development time: Mod_perl vs mod_php
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I really like to see compared is the development time of php vs perl code for a given problem. I've read ad nauseam about perl development time being shorter than C. How does php compare to perl in this regard, I wonder. I don't know about that but the fact that php is hard to debug is really off-putting to a mod_perl programmer. Guess which takes more time. Jie
[OT]umm...WTFM? sheepish grin[Re: advocacy]
I was working on an article for http://take23.org/ and thought I'd link to the basic documentation you get with "perldoc Apache" after you've installed mod_perl and I can't find a copy online. Anybody point me to one? Thanks much all. Paul __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Re: Mod_perl vs mod_php
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Perrin Harkins wrote: Please read the archives of this list before asking for Perl/PHP comparisons. It has been discussed ad nauseum. There are many good search interfaces for the list archives that will direct you to the previous posts. To mention a few http://perl.apache.org/#general-list :) _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://apachetoday.com http://logilune.com/ http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [OT]umm...WTFM? sheepish grin[Re: advocacy]
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Paul wrote: I was working on an article for http://take23.org/ and thought I'd link to the basic documentation you get with "perldoc Apache" after you've installed mod_perl and I can't find a copy online. Anybody point me to one? Look under http://perl.apache.org/dist/ _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://apachetoday.com http://logilune.com/ http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [OT]umm...WTFM? sheepish grin[Re: advocacy]
Anybody point me to one? online docs for Apache.pm : http://search.cpan.org/doc/DOUGM/mod_perl-1.24_01/Apache/Apache.pm
a reminder: Help With Modules Wanted page
Back in May, 2000 I've started this page: http://perl.apache.org/help_with_modules_wanted.html when Doug was looking for a new owner for Apache::PerlVINC. Now this page is empty, so this is to remind you that if you want to hand off your module to a new family or you are in need for a generic not existing Apache:: module but you don't have the tuits to implement one, this is the page for you. If it gets active it's possible that take23.org will be a new home for it, with all the cool automatic submission interfaces Matt is preparing for us, mod_perl community :) _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://apachetoday.com http://logilune.com/ http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: Authentication Using PWD
The CommGATE console. I telnetted into the IP:106. I see this line : 200 CommuniGate Pro PWD Server 3.3.2 ready [EMAIL PROTECTED] I should be able to type USER user, then PASS pass but nothing comes out. Please help Koh Kok Wei Web Developer Dream Tree (M) Sdn. Bhd. Level 59, Tower 2, Petronas Twin Towers Kuala Lumpur City Centre 50088 Kuala Lumpur MALAYSIA Mobile: +6012-2310095 Tel: +603-3820667 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.biodata.com - Original Message - From: "Alexander Farber (EED)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Koh Kok Wei" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Authentication Using PWD Koh Kok Wei wrote: I want to Authenticate through the PWD interface in telnet in the CommuniGate Pro mail server. I got connected to the server at port 106 (default), but I can't type a thing at the console. The apache console?
new module: mod_raah (Apache API via Corba)
I've stumbled upon mod_raah while reading http://simplex.ru/news/koi/ (sorry it's in koi charset :). It was referencing to http://www.opencentrix.com/opensource/mod_raah/ This is what is has to say: Mod_Raah exposes a subset of the Apache API via Corba. It allows a programmer to write Apache handlers that run on a remote machine. The three phases Authentication, Authorization and Content are supported. and there is a nice diagram depicting the functionality... So in case you are looking for an opportunity to write a new Apache:: module, it seems that Apache::RAAH is still an open vacancy :) _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://apachetoday.com http://logilune.com/ http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Article idea: mod_perl + JSP
I think the 100% Java idea has had its day. Microsoft's .NET is a tacit admission that in the real world Microsoft will never own 100% of the market, so let's make things work better together. In that vein, I'd love to see an article on mod_perl and JSP cooperating. That is, a website that uses both and admits that each has its place. I know a lot of people don't like Java (I'm one of them), but mentioning JSP is the foot in the door to getting mindshare back from those folks who now think that Java is the only way. Anyone run such an installation? Anyone want to write about their setup and experiences? Nat
Re: Article idea: mod_perl + JSP
* Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [001212 22:09]: I think the 100% Java idea has had its day. Microsoft's .NET is a tacit admission that in the real world Microsoft will never own 100% of the market, so let's make things work better together. In that vein, I'd love to see an article on mod_perl and JSP cooperating. That is, a website that uses both and admits that each has its place. I know a lot of people don't like Java (I'm one of them), but mentioning JSP is the foot in the door to getting mindshare back from those folks who now think that Java is the only way. Anyone run such an installation? Anyone want to write about their setup and experiences? Nat Kind of off-topic but not really: I've recently moved from a job with 100% Perl to one with 80% Java / 20% Perl. One of the things I miss most is the Template Toolkit. (There are lots of other things too, but this keeps coming up again and again.) TT is just so amazingly useful and simple enough that I can't believe more people aren't using it. As for Java, I find it really hard to believe that JSP has caught on like it has. The syntax is *amazingly* clunky and leads me to believe that most people who write JSP use WYSIWYG editors to generate the code for them. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it gets my hackles up that catering to one group of folks raises the barriers for another.) "Clunky syntax" might seem like a trivial concern, but IMO it's not. It goes right to the heart of usability -- JSP does not make easy things easy. Since you can embed Java into the page, hard things are possible, but the wisdom of doing a lot of processing in the page itself is beyond me. (And generating web-interfaces from servlets is sufficiently painful that we don't need to discuss it -- haven't any of these smart Java people ever heard of heredocs?) In fact, entirely separate frameworks -- from the open source world there's WebMacro (www.webmacro.org) and the WebMacro spin-off Velocity project (jakarta.apache.org/velocity/), among others -- have sprung up to address JSP's deficiencies. But JSP has hooks in various editors (notably Dreamweaver) and has big money (Sun, Oracle, IBM...) behind it. Plus it has a published standard and (despite its syntax) is quite extensible. Chris -- Chris Winters ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Building enterprise-capable snack solutions since 1988.
Re: Article idea: mod_perl + JSP
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Nathan Torkington wrote: In that vein, I'd love to see an article on mod_perl and JSP cooperating. That is, a website that uses both and admits that each has its place. I know a lot of people don't like Java (I'm one of them), but mentioning JSP is the foot in the door to getting mindshare back from those folks who now think that Java is the only way. I'd be surprised if many people do this. Companies that have both probably consider one or the other a legacy system or a totally separate project. The only web project I've heard of where Perl and Java were really being used together on the server side was one that Gunther described, with a mod_perl front-end talking SOAP to a server running application logic in Java. Anyway, I think a better approach for getting attention from Java-minded people is to demonstrate that there are well-designed, carefully engineered sites being built in mod_perl. Most of the articles I see about Perl tend to play up the "quick hack" aspect, and ignore things like OO design, maintainability, and scalability. Those things are the stock in trade of Java articles, as a quick look through Java World will show. - Perrin
Re: Article idea: mod_perl + JSP
Perrin Harkins writes: Anyway, I think a better approach for getting attention from Java-minded people is to demonstrate that there are well-designed, carefully engineered sites being built in mod_perl. Most of the articles I see about Perl tend to play up the "quick hack" aspect, and ignore things like OO design, maintainability, and scalability. Those things are the stock in trade of Java articles, as a quick look through Java World will show. That's an offer of an article? :-) Nat
Re: Article idea: mod_perl + JSP
At 11:11 PM 12/12/2000 -0500, Chris Winters wrote: * Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [001212 22:09]: Anyone run such an installation? Anyone want to write about their setup and experiences? There are projects where we use mod_perl handlers for stuff like prototyping auth but then use servlets/JSPs for the app. But I believe that's too shallow for what Nat wants. We're a small shop of primarily fairly senior developers (at least several years experience in the languages we like to use)... and we've actually found that the Java web and the Perl web projects we've delivered on aren't necessarily THAT far off in project delivery time than some Perl people would have you believe. Of course, we have a toolkit that we use to develop apps in both Perl and Java which helps, but it's still interesting that business logic for people experienced in the language of their choice isn't that bad in terms of delivery time. Of course, maintenance is another issue. I'll probably get some flak for the above statement about Perl vs Java delivery time. :) Kind of off-topic but not really: I've recently moved from a job with 100% Perl to one with 80% Java / 20% Perl. One of the things I miss most is the Template Toolkit. (There are lots of other things too, but this keeps coming up again and again.) TT is just so amazingly useful and simple enough that I can't believe more people aren't using it. As for Java, I find it really hard to believe that JSP has caught on like it has. The syntax is *amazingly* clunky and leads me to believe that most people who write JSP use WYSIWYG editors to generate the code for them. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it gets my hackles up that catering to one group of folks raises the barriers for another.) "Clunky syntax" might seem like a trivial concern, but IMO it's not. It goes right to the heart of usability -- JSP does not make easy things easy. Since you can embed Java into the page, hard things are possible, but the wisdom of doing a lot of processing in the page itself is beyond me. Ah but have you looked at taglibs? We rarely ever put Java processing on the page itself. In the history of open source java apps we've developed there was only one algorithm that we chose to kludge in as embedded Java code (and we will eventually remove it)... And it was an algorithm to generate event blocks in the day view of a calendar (ala Outlook) so that multiple appointments can be at the same time but also span different hours (so 3pm to 5pm and another from 3:30pm to 4:00pm) etc.. and the calendar knows how to render itself. Believe me that is a HARD algorithm in any language to get right so that the HTML displays nicely in all browsers. As for logic in a JSP... Well, the above is an example of something where you need code for the display to work well. The downside of taglibs is that they are complex, however taglibs aren't THAT bad. In our framework every JSP page has at least 3 sets of taglibs (more can be added if they are generic and serve a purpose).. Framework level -- These are our utility taglibs. App level -- These are taglibs that represent app information Page level -- Each JSP page, like it or not, has information that it needs to display specific to itself. The nice thing is that our web designer just needs a cheatsheet of taglib and what it does and doesn't have to worry about any other syntax. The main bad thing about this is that when we spec out a project, each "view" on the application we spec out as 2 days instead of 1 day of work in the equivalent Perl because coding the taglibs gets to be a pain. This may seem like overall project delivery time is increased, and it is... a bit. But the majority of a webapp is not necessarily the screens. It's the logic underneath, so our timelines don't really end up growing that much in the scheme of a project. But we do get a better maintenance time because the JSPs are really divorced entirely from Java code allowing a web designer to change things at will without having to worry about an artificial . We almost never embed Java inside a JSP. (And generating web-interfaces from servlets is sufficiently painful that we don't need to discuss it -- haven't any of these smart Java people ever heard of heredocs?) There are preprocessors that help with this. But of course, you have to always remember to compile step to include the preprocessor. And then you still have the issue of variable interpolation.. Another thing annoying not to have. :) In fact, entirely separate frameworks -- from the open source world there's WebMacro (www.webmacro.org) and the WebMacro spin-off Velocity project (jakarta.apache.org/velocity/), among others -- have sprung up to address JSP's deficiencies. But JSP has hooks in various editors (notably Dreamweaver) and has big money (Sun, Oracle, IBM...) behind it. Plus it has a published standard and (despite its syntax) is quite extensible. I
Problem with the freetds_dbd driver!!!
Hi everyone, I have a problem with the "freetds_dbd" module (driver to access the MS SQL Server), it doesn't work correctly. This module is installed under apache 1.3.14, mod_perl 1.24_01 and DBI 1.13-1. When a lot of requests run a perl script that uses the driver to open a database connection, the child processes of the apache are aborted and the followings error messages are print in the error_log file: httpd: tdslayer.c:2923: newStream: Assertion `total6' failed. [Wed Dec 13 01:57:57 2000] [notice] child pid 1767 exit signal Aborted (6) Please, does anyone know what is the problem with my driver? Does anyone know another driver to access MS SQL Server which I can use? All help will be very appreciated. Thanks. Edmar Edilton da Silva Bacharel em Cincia da Computaco - UFV Mestrando em Cincia da Computaco - UNICAMP
Re: [OT]umm...WTFM? sheepish grin[Re: advocacy]
perldoc.com is your friend: http://www.perldoc.com/cpan/Apache.html Joao Pedro Paul wrote: I was working on an article for http://take23.org/ and thought I'd link to the basic documentation you get with "perldoc Apache" after you've installed mod_perl and I can't find a copy online. Anybody point me to one? Thanks much all. Paul __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ -- João Pedro Gonçalves
DHTML Support in CGI/Perl
Hi, Does CGI/Perl support DHTML? Is there any reference material available where we can get this information whether it is possible to dynamically generate web pages from CGI/Perl. If this is not the right forum pertaining to this discussion, then could you send me the e-mail address of the forum where I can pose my queries? Thanks Best Regards, Manhar Goindi
Re: Problems with Apache::ASP, SSI/Filter, and Redirects
"Mark T. Dame" wrote:
...
$Response-Redirect("/index.html");
However, if we change the .htaccess file to set up ASP to handle SSI:
...
(with second .htaccess file)
% telnet test.site.com 80
Trying x.x.x.x...
Connected to test.site.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
get /test.asp HTTP/1.0
Connection closed by foreign host.
Mark,
Your exact config worked for me, I have the latest installed
of everything ( 2.07 is latest ASP ) and I got:
]# lwp-request -edS http://localhost:82/redirect.asp
GET http://localhost:82/redirect.asp -- 302 Found
GET http://localhost:82/ -- 404 Not Found
Connection: close
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:58:51 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.14
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Client-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 07:58:51 GMT
Client-Peer: 127.0.0.1:82
Title: 404 Not Found
I would check the error_log, and double check that you have
EVERYTHING built for mod_perl failing there being anything
in the error_log. This might be cause for stacked handlers
support not being compiled in (???) For there to be just a
connection close seems rather odd in any case, and I would
appreciate hearing what the resolution here is.
-- Josh
_
Joshua Chamas Chamas Enterprises Inc.
NodeWorks free web link monitoring Huntington Beach, CA USA
http://www.nodeworks.com1-714-625-4051
sites running mod_perl
Here's a patch for the sites.html page that adds information on our use of mod_perl at eToys. - Perrin 309a310,316 The Internet's largest on-line toy store, a href="http://www.etoys.com/"eToys.com/a, uses mod_perl extensively. We use an object-oriented approach built on standard CPAN modules such as DBI, BerkeleyDB, and Template Toolkit. eToys ranked third in overall traffic among e-commerce sites during the 1999 Christmas rush, right behind Amazon and eBay. p
