Re: [SITE] the great redesign of 1999
At 09:12 19/10/1999 +0200, Stas Bekman wrote: We were planning to put a good deal of the stuff into a db too I think. I guess it doesn't matter too much if we have duplicated content as long as it is in sync. We will have to take into account what you are doing so that we can cross-link whenever it makes sense. Of course it does matter not to have the stuff duplicated, since it's a nightmare to keep 2 things in sync, but why should we doing that? I don't see any reason... We wanted to do that to complement the current site, if you are going to do that anyway, there is no reason, why we wouldn't put our efforts to create other useful things... Sorry, I tend to shorten what I think too much to say what I really think, ah! if only we had lossless expression ;-) Yes of course it does matter if we are duplicating the information *source*. What I meant to say is that if the same information makes sense in two different contexts -- even very close context -- then it doesn't matter if it is available in both (imho). What I'm worried/thinking about is layout disparity. I think that information pertaining to jobs or success stories needs to be present on the mod_perl site. It would feel awkward to jump to another site for that, even when both layouts are good if they are (too) different it looks messy. So if that information is meaningful within modperl.sourcegarden.org and within perl.apache.org, mirroring the info in a database daily (or using one source) really doesn't sound like a dreadful technical challenge to me. But I must add to that that there is something within me that wishes to speak against duplication, even if it doesn't become a technical nightmare. However, it can't seem to find arguments to support itself. I am totally open to discussion on this point. Anyway, let's stop talking about "you" and "we", we are all "we" :) No competition, only collaboration. You'd expect competition to have crossed my mind and be rejected, but it actually hasn't. I am very happy to learn that part of the job has been / is being done. I think one important thing would be to decide what goes into modperl.sourcegarden.org, what goes into perl.apache.org and perhaps what goes into both. Duplicating efforts would be of course stupid, and drawing the line between site that intertwine and sites that truly overlap can only help. James is working on this application, which is in pretty good stage (James?), why in the world would you want to write something else from scratch? James' tool will be able to index jobs, ISPs, application, modules whatever... So I think that the best idea would be to join James, and in a joint effort deliver it sooner, influencing on the way the final set of features... I totally agree. But as always, I might be wrong, so it's just an idea... I'm very delighted to know that you started to work on the new site and I'm in no way would try to stop or provide deconstructing thoughts :) I might be wrong too, otherwise I probably wouldn't bother discussing these projects :-) Your thoughts are very far from deconstructive to say the least, and I hope mine aren't either. If they sound like they are, I've probably misexpressed myself. Matt and I are working on an outline, we probably should share what we've got. PS: maybe we should take this discussion to the mod-cvs list ? .Robin Critic, n.: A person who boasts himself hard to please because nobody tries to please him.
Re: [SITE] the great redesign of 1999
At 09:12 19/10/1999 +0200, Stas Bekman wrote: We were planning to put a good deal of the stuff into a db too I think. I guess it doesn't matter too much if we have duplicated content as long as it is in sync. We will have to take into account what you are doing so that we can cross-link whenever it makes sense. Of course it does matter not to have the stuff duplicated, since it's a nightmare to keep 2 things in sync, but why should we doing that? I don't see any reason... We wanted to do that to complement the current site, if you are going to do that anyway, there is no reason, why we wouldn't put our efforts to create other useful things... Sorry, I tend to shorten what I think too much to say what I really think, ah! if only we had lossless expression ;-) Yes of course it does matter if we are duplicating the information *source*. What I meant to say is that if the same information makes sense in two different contexts -- even very close context -- then it doesn't matter if it is available in both (imho). That makes sense. But you should understand my motives for moving to modperl.sourcegarden.org. Otherwise there was no reason not do everything at perl.apache.org. So, perl.apache.org is just a VH at apache.org. You have almost no ability to add components to the system, and of course no root access. Installing mod_perl, mysql, modules is absolutely possible technically, but in reality it isn't, because no matter whether you have a root access or not, the resources are limited... I guess other resources to... With SourceGarden I've everything I want and need, thanks to Scream Design team folks! That's why I feel much better creating for this site, and I cannot tell myself, I don't feel like adding this feature, since it's a headache to ask permission to do that and chances that the it would be approved... So we (the folks behind SourceGarden) have no excuses not to do something, so we do it... I'm not sure whether you have thought about the described limitations as part of your plan. But if you come up with solution that will allows us to run mod_perl and mysql at perl.apache.org - I think we would be delighted to have James' tool running on perl.apache.org, so you wouldn't jump between sites... For me as of this moment perl.apache.org is a gopher site (remember that name?), with links for downloading docs and mod_perl. And that's not far from truth. If we succeed to revive perl.apache.org to make it a dynamic site, I don't see any reason to have all the functionality we wanted to add to SourceGarden there. Our main goal is different - a greenhouse for mod_perl sw. That's it I think! But as always, I might be wrong, so it's just an idea... I'm very delighted to know that you started to work on the new site and I'm in no way would try to stop or provide deconstructing thoughts :) I might be wrong too, otherwise I probably wouldn't bother discussing these projects :-) Your thoughts are very far from deconstructive to say the least, and I hope mine aren't either. If they sound like they are, I've probably misexpressed myself. Argh... Just wanted to keep your spirit up :) Matt and I are working on an outline, we probably should share what we've got. PS: maybe we should take this discussion to the mod-cvs list ? The problem is that not many people are subscribed on this list and I still beleive that more people might be interested in providing a feedback. As long as we keep [SITE] token in the subject I think it can be easily discarded by uninterested folks. Correct me if I'm wrong... ___ Stas Bekman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.singlesheaven.com/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC at www.singlesheaven.com/stas/TULARC www.apache.org www.perl.com == www.modperl.com || perl.apache.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
Re: [SITE] the great redesign of 1999
Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, let's stop talking about "you" and "we", we are all "we" :) No competition, only collaboration. James is working on this application, which is in pretty good stage (James?), why in the world would you want to write something else from scratch? James' tool will be able to index jobs, ISPs, application, modules whatever... So I think that the best idea would be to join James, and in a joint effort deliver it sooner, influencing on the way the final set of features... But as always, I might be wrong, so it's just an idea... I'm very delighted to know that you started to work on the new site and I'm in no way would try to stop or provide deconstructing thoughts :) Since you asked :), I thought I'd give a brief description of where the code is: Fresh::Index - Database viewer - provides indexes and record views Fresh::User - Manages user accounts - requests, editing, resetting Fresh::DBI - Manages direct database interaction - used by other Fresh:: modules I would put Fresh::Index at 75% finished, Fresh::User at 50% and Fresh::DBI at 80%. Module configuration is a combination of database tables and PerlSetVar directives. Fresh::Index needs a bit more configurability and Fresh::DBI needs to treat user data and application data as unconnected, allowing one user database for a set of application databases (mod_perl, mod_php, ...). -- James Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED], 409-862-3725 Texas AM CIS Operating Systems Group, Unix
Re: [SITE] the great redesign of 1999
Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My personal comment on both of your previews, is that they are very cool! But while being flattered with having a Guide as part of the main menu, this is unfair to other folks who wrote an invaluable documentation (Vivek, Frank and other). For my part, I leave that decision entirly up to the designers. If it fits in there, fine. If it doesn't, that's fine too. -- Frank Cringle, [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (+49 2304) 467101; fax: 943357
RE: [SITE] the great redesign of 1999
Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] sez: As a side note, reading about that desert idea this morning triggered a neuron somehow, so I quickly modified an old template of mine that hadn't been used and uploaded it at http://www.knowscape.org/modperl/ ... Adding my vote to this too, I think it looks very slick. At any rate it's much better than what we have now. -- Eric
Re: [SITE] the great redesign of 1999
At 19:02 12/10/1999 -0700, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote: - mod_perl news. - mod_perl FAQs, developer's guides and documentation. - mod_perl evangelism, quantitative and anecdotal comparison with similar tools. We need a little crowd of people to keep especially the news and acecdotes updates. This will be a lot of work if it's going to be done well. Matt Arnold, Neil Kandalgaonkar and I have decided to team up and start working on the new site. Discussing this on the list would probably be too noisy and I guess that having a mailing-list for the few people that will help at first might be overkill (though I am in no way against it if someone thinks it's better to have one). Suggestions and ideas are of course very welcome. I guess we will be feeding our decisions and realisations back to the list for review. :-) Well, there isn't really anything on the current site that needs mod_perl. Indeed, but would it be a problem if we were to create something that needs it ? I could put it on my own server but it is already taking a lot of hits and isn't far from lacking resources (we will have a farm in the two months to come, then I can make an offer). been used and uploaded it at http://www.knowscape.org/modperl/ ... This example is real nice, [...] I agree, I like it a lot too. *blush* Thanks :-) But what we really need is someone to do the work, so if you (and whoever else) is willing to do it, more power to you! Talking about power, is there a way we could get a tarball of all that is presently online so that we can start work with content that already exists ? We could crawl the site, but if anything happens on the server-side we'll miss it. .Robin After all, what is your hosts' purpose in having a party? Surely not for you to enjoy yourself; if that were their sole purpose, they'd have simply sent champagne and women over to your place by taxi.
Re: [SITE] the great redesign of 1999
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Matt Arnold wrote: [...] some extent, I believe people are put off by what they find. The information isn't necessarily poor, it just isn't what they expect. Indeed. - mod_perl news. - mod_perl FAQs, developer's guides and documentation. - mod_perl evangelism, quantitative and anecdotal comparison with similar tools. We need a little crowd of people to keep especially the news and acecdotes updates. This will be a lot of work if it's going to be done well. [...] - where appropriate, demonstrate the power mod_perl (as in, actually use the darn thing on the site...) :-) Well, there isn't really anything on the current site that needs mod_perl. I think this outline is a good one. I want to offer a simple introduction -- why mod_perl is so cool. I want to offer the marketing [...] It all sounds very good, I for one will be happy to support it with words and critics (time to actually doing something right now is another story). Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] sez: As a side note, reading about that desert idea this morning triggered a neuron somehow, so I quickly modified an old template of mine that hadn't been used and uploaded it at http://www.knowscape.org/modperl/ ... This example is real nice, [...] I agree, I like it a lot too. [...] We need someone to make hard decisions -- someone that can decide what stays and what goes, a person (or people) that can take the roles of "art director", "technical editor", "non-technical editor", and perhaps other roles. We need someone to herd cats. :-) What about you and Robin Berjon gets together and makes some more specific outline for a prototype? We can setup another mailinglist for discussing the website if we need it. But what we really need is someone to do the work, so if you (and whoever else) is willing to do it, more power to you! [X-Disclaimer: All of this, of course, is my very humble opinion. Your mileage may vary. There's more than one way to do it. And everything I say may be completely wrong.] I think you and the other people writing in this thread is very much on the right track! - ask -- ask bjoern hansen - http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/ more than 40M impressions per day, http://valueclick.com
