Re: cms as an apache incubator project?
It was written by me under the terms of my contract with the ASF as a sysadmin. The rationale document discusses the motivations for doing the work as part of my work arrangement with Apache versus as a volunteer contributor. It is by design a cost-effective, highly-scalable,enterprise-grade CMS, but fairly bare-bones when compared to similaropen-sourceCMS's in terms of bundled features. It is very sysadminfriendly thowith very few administrative aspects that require activemanagement. Other than setting up and tearing down projects and tweaking svn authz files,it largely manages itself. I am not all that proficient at HTML/CSS design, so there's certainly room for improvement in the webgui. You can check out the current setup by visiting https://cms.apache.org with user 'anonymous' and empty password. The mod_perl based code itself is fairly advanced and makes heavy use of subrequests, so if anything you will learn how to do that properly in a mod_perl application once you've studied the codebase. mod_perl is one of the rare apps that fully supports subrequest calls in a dynamic language, so this aspect differentiates it from non-mod_perl based solutions. IOW what I've done with the webgui simply couldn't be done in any other httpd-based programming environment other than C itself, and that would've taken at least 20X the number of LOC just to write, much less debug. HTH - Original Message - > From: Jim Schueler > To: Joe Schaefer > Cc: "modperl@perl.apache.org" > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 9:44 AM > Subject: Re: cms as an apache incubator project? > >T hanks for the quick response, Joe. > > Based on the links you forwarded earlier, I understand that this application > was > written in-house by ASF operations staff. Is that you? > > Reading the rationale discussion reminds me of tooth-pulling conversations > I've had with managers convinced that there's an out-of-the-box turnkey > solution that *exactly* meets their business requirements and has no > life-cycle > costs. When these managers eventually concede the need to hire software > professionals, the conversation starts all over again. Essentially: OK, > we'll invest in software development, then we'll release the code to the > OS community, where it will be supported and maintained indefinitely by > volunteers. These sunny optimists make it hard to earn a living. > > So while I'm thrilled to participate in an ASF project, I'm trying to > establish some justification. Some examples: > > 1. Learn best practices in application development > 2. Develop marketable expertise in CMS technology > 3. Support mod_perl's viability as an enterprise solution > > Where I live, most of the local economy is supported by foundation and > government grants. (Sign of the times.) I'm sure I know people who could > capitalize on the right FOSS project. > > Justification is always the first step in any undertaking. And I couldn't > find it anywhere using your links. Is there anything else you can send along? > > Thanks again! > > Sincerely, > > Jim Schueler >
Re: cms as an apache incubator project?
Thanks for the quick response, Joe. Based on the links you forwarded earlier, I understand that this application was written in-house by ASF operations staff. Is that you? Reading the rationale discussion reminds me of tooth-pulling conversations I've had with managers convinced that there's an out-of-the-box turnkey solution that *exactly* meets their business requirements and has no life-cycle costs. When these managers eventually concede the need to hire software professionals, the conversation starts all over again. Essentially: OK, we'll invest in software development, then we'll release the code to the OS community, where it will be supported and maintained indefinitely by volunteers. These sunny optimists make it hard to earn a living. So while I'm thrilled to participate in an ASF project, I'm trying to establish some justification. Some examples: 1. Learn best practices in application development 2. Develop marketable expertise in CMS technology 3. Support mod_perl's viability as an enterprise solution Where I live, most of the local economy is supported by foundation and government grants. (Sign of the times.) I'm sure I know people who could capitalize on the right FOSS project. Justification is always the first step in any undertaking. And I couldn't find it anywhere using your links. Is there anything else you can send along? Thanks again! Sincerely, Jim Schueler
Re: cms as an apache incubator project?
I originally developed the code as part of my job at the ASF. If we do go the incubator route i'd certainly want to participate as a committer. There have been a handful of responses on other lists but nobody with experience with modperl other than you and me. There is no time commitment that you need to make. It would be a volunteer driven effort going forward. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 8, 2012, at 5:04 PM, Jim Schueler wrote: > Hello Joe. > > I'm definitely interested and I'll take look at the links below. > > What is your role in this process? How many volunteers are you looking for? > Any other response? About how much time is required.? > > Thanks! > > Jim Schueler > > On Mon, 2 Jan 2012, Joe Schaefer wrote: > >> FYI: mod_perl based CMS currently in use at the ASF: >> >> http://www.apache.org/dev/cms >> http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref >> >> Looking for a few volunteers to start an Apache project >> based on it... >> >> >> - Forwarded Message - >>> From: Joe Schaefer >>> To: Apache Infrastructure >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:41 PM >>> Subject: cms as an apache incubator project? >>> >>> >>> Way back when the cms was first being implemented >>> some people suggested making it a formal project. >>> I pushed back on that issue at the time because it >>> was so heavily tied into our infra that trying to >>> productize it made little sense to me. >>> >>> >>> As time progressed it became clear tho that I was >>> the only person willing and able to work on the cms >>> plumbing, and maybe now that there are several projects >>> using the cms it's time to reask the question. >>> >>> >>> Would it make sense to anyone to volunteer to work >>> on the cms towards making it adoptable by other orgs? >>> Keep in mind people can work on and adopt the current >>> code right now as the svn tree is public: >>> >>> >>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms >>> >>> >>> The real issue becomes whether or not this community >>> has the right skills and interests to help other orgs >>> adopt it, and to modify the software to make that >>> >>> a feasible proposition. >>> >>> >>> Any takers? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>
Re: Fw: cms as an apache incubator project?
Hello Joe. I'm definitely interested and I'll take look at the links below. What is your role in this process? How many volunteers are you looking for? Any other response? About how much time is required.? Thanks! Jim Schueler On Mon, 2 Jan 2012, Joe Schaefer wrote: FYI: mod_perl based CMS currently in use at the ASF: http://www.apache.org/dev/cms http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref Looking for a few volunteers to start an Apache project based on it... - Forwarded Message - From: Joe Schaefer To: Apache Infrastructure Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:41 PM Subject: cms as an apache incubator project? Way back when the cms was first being implemented some people suggested making it a formal project. I pushed back on that issue at the time because it was so heavily tied into our infra that trying to productize it made little sense to me. As time progressed it became clear tho that I was the only person willing and able to work on the cms plumbing, and maybe now that there are several projects using the cms it's time to reask the question. Would it make sense to anyone to volunteer to work on the cms towards making it adoptable by other orgs? Keep in mind people can work on and adopt the current code right now as the svn tree is public: https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms The real issue becomes whether or not this community has the right skills and interests to help other orgs adopt it, and to modify the software to make that a feasible proposition. Any takers?
Fw: cms as an apache incubator project?
FYI: mod_perl based CMS currently in use at the ASF: http://www.apache.org/dev/cms http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref Looking for a few volunteers to start an Apache project based on it... - Forwarded Message - >From: Joe Schaefer >To: Apache Infrastructure >Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:41 PM >Subject: cms as an apache incubator project? > > >Way back when the cms was first being implemented >some people suggested making it a formal project. >I pushed back on that issue at the time because it >was so heavily tied into our infra that trying to >productize it made little sense to me. > > >As time progressed it became clear tho that I was >the only person willing and able to work on the cms >plumbing, and maybe now that there are several projects >using the cms it's time to reask the question. > > >Would it make sense to anyone to volunteer to work >on the cms towards making it adoptable by other orgs? >Keep in mind people can work on and adopt the current >code right now as the svn tree is public: > > >https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/cms > > >The real issue becomes whether or not this community >has the right skills and interests to help other orgs >adopt it, and to modify the software to make that > >a feasible proposition. > > >Any takers? > > > >
