[MOSAIC] strategies

2007-10-08 Thread Linda Buice
Hi Cathy,

 

I was interested in what you were going to do for 90 minutes

to practice gradual release of responsibility with teachers.  We are also in
need of that in our school.

 

Linda 

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Re: [MOSAIC] strategies

2007-10-08 Thread Judy Gray
We are in need of moving teachers out of the basal...we have just introduced 
Debbie Miller and Ellin Keene any suggestions on how to get more teachers to 
come to the party... Judy

 Linda Buice [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/08/07 8:09 AM 
Hi Cathy,

 

I was interested in what you were going to do for 90 minutes

to practice gradual release of responsibility with teachers.  We are also in
need of that in our school.

 

Linda 

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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

2007-10-08 Thread jdelich
It is important to read the IDEA wording that includes many repetitions of 
scientific evidence. The three tiers are built on this assumed scientific 
evidence. Tier One has been used tell teachers that core reading programs 
with scientific research should meet the needs of 80% of their readers. 

We now know through the What Works Clearinghouse that NONE of these core 
programs have the scientific research that meets the requirements for 
scientific evidence. (Only Success for All had more than one scientific study 
to qualify for review, and SFA received a potentially positive rating for 
general reading achievement-but had mixed results on comprehension.) 

And, in schools where the core program hasn't met the needs of 80%, teachers 
are being pressured to believe its their fault, and/or they need to follow the 
program even more closely (implying the integrity of the program must have been 
compromised). NOT that the core program does not have any scientific evidence 
to support following it even more closely.

The next two tiers are supposed to meet the needs of the next 15% and 5 % of 
struggling readers. And, of course these programs are supposed to have 
scientific research too. All the programs I have seen listed in Tier 2  3 do 
NOT have effective ratings at WWC, either. (Surprised?) The programs I have 
seen on these Tiers are supposedly chosen because the their research was 
supported by Oregon Reading First. I wish I were kidding, but this seems like 
the Twilight Zone.

 Interestingly most, if not all of these programs have potentially positive 
effects on alphabetics and/or fluency at WWC, but none for comprehension, nor 
general reading achievement. (One in particular had potentially negative 
effects on comprehension. So for all those DIBELS schools pushing reading rate, 
they too might expect to see comprehension to suffer, based on this 
scientific program.) 

Importantly, on all the program Tier Frameworks I have seen Reading Recovery is 
not included at any Tier. That is the most interesting because it of course if 
the ONLY beginning reading programs to get the WWC highest rating (strong 
evidence) for general reading achievement. (I think the news that RR was 
black-balled is still being used against it by Special Ed.)

Those who have been using DIBELS are just starting to abandon it in favor of 
AIMSWEB. My question is what scientific evidence that using these screens at 
AIMSWEB actually improves reading achievement (on other measures especially) in 
comprehension or general reading achievement.  

RtI requires these screens because the students identified must be compared 
across their entire group of peers. (Claims are made that the screens are good 
for all of course.) They are attractive (screens) because they are CHEAP and 
QUICK, and can be done whole group in some cases. And, I understand the graphs 
are pretty. (But, scoring the writing screens isn't quick, I've heard.  Of 
course the fluency screen has a timed factor because how else could they graph 
something? So AIMSWEB screens just break reading down into its meaningless 
parts in more/different ways than DIBELS, and I have yet to see the 
scientific evidence to support it use either. 

It appears nobody at the U.S. Department of Education has told state Special 
Education departments about the What Works Clearinghouse, or the Reading First 
debacle, so they push blindly forward.

john d.


mosaic@literacyworkshop.org wrote:
What is RTI and could you please explain the tiering system further.
Thanks.
J.Hayden


On 10/6/07 6:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My district started investigating RTI last year and we are using  the tiering
 system this year. I'm an AIS reading teacher.


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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

2007-10-08 Thread jdelich
Respone to Intervention (scientific, or course). RtI is being used by special 
ed departments in delivery of services to individual and small groups of 
students.


mosaic@literacyworkshop.org wrote:

what is rti?



Leslie 

NY

K-8


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 10:40 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI




My district started investigating RTI last year and we are using  the tiering 
system this year. I'm an AIS reading teacher. Because of the tiering  we have 
some groups limited to 3 kids (tier 3) and 6 kids (tier 2). We have not  been 
told to use any specific program yet, but I could see it coming because of  
the need for frequent progress monitoring. That is different from our previous 
 
AIS where the kids were formally assessed 3 times a year with DRA or QRI  
testing. Our school psychologist is pushing for DIBELS, but after using it  
briefly and reading the book by Elaine Garan where she addresses valid reasons 
 
for 
not using it, I'm hoping we won't. Is your district advocating the Options  
program because they wanted a common intervention for all tier 3 kids? I'd 
also 
 like to hear from other interventionists and if RTI has hit their  districts.
Michelle, NY 2-5 Reading



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[MOSAIC] RTI, Dibels, Tiering

2007-10-08 Thread Plongshell
Cathy from NY stated very clearly the purpose of RTI-response to  
intervention-and it's tiering system. In response to another post about what  
we're using 
to monitor students, we haven't really gotten that far yet. I know  that with 
DIBELS you could actually do weekly probes, but that assessment isn't  
authentic. When you work with kids in second grade and lower, I imagine running 
 
records from a leveled book plus some conversation to assess comprehension will 
 
be enough, but my fourth and fifth graders are using longer books. Plus, we'll 
 need standardized administration and data collection to support continuing 
with  interventions or going for classification.  Are there any other people  
doing RTI that can comment- and this RTI is not just New York- it is a federal  
requirement that was inserted into a dry rehashing of the IDEA  
reauthorization-most district head didn't even realize it was  there!
Michelle 2-5, reading  intervention



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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI, Dibels, Tiering

2007-10-08 Thread PAltm81324

In a message dated 10/8/07 11:46:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 Are there any other people 
 doing RTI that can comment- and this RTI is not just New York- it is a 
 federal 
 requirement that was inserted into a dry rehashing of the IDEA 
 reauthorization-most district head didn't even realize it was  there!
 

I'm in NY and doing RTI with middle schoolers. The district is very big on 
triangulation to determine improvement. We are giving all students the MAP   
test   (www.nwea.org) , looking at ELA scores, core subject grades and 
assessments in the AIS class.

Pat - NY


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Re: [MOSAIC] mastery of stragies

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr
I still believe connections are important, but I don't worry too much about 
labeling. Do we ever really master a comprehension strategy???

Cathy
K-5 
DE


-Original Message-
From: gina nunley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 2:47 pm
Subject: [MOSAIC] mastery of stragies





Am I right that the STW 2 doesn't focus on connecting?  I am about to rethink 
it 
myself.  I just spent 2 weeks on it.  Forcing a connection, and then forcing a 
So What? meaningful use of the connection isn't flowing well.
 
I also decided after several years that insisting they code T-S, T-T, and T-W 
isn't really necessary either.  I am being much simpler.  I am saying
 
Hey did this remind you of anything...oh yeah?  What?  Oh do you think that you 
can use that information to understand and event or character...no OK let's go 
on.  Yes OK let's talk about that.  
 
No connection?  OK let's keep reading.  Or maybe I add my own.
 
 
I see teachers, myself included, forcing the strategy work and it just doesn't 
work that way most days, which leaves me wondering how to talk to my district 
about MASTERY.
 
  See we need to do common assessments to show mastery of our strategy unit.  
What would you say to them?  Thanks, Gina 6th grade.
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Re: [MOSAIC] Help. .(again)

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr
I totally agree with Jennifer's advice on the books.


-Original Message-
From: Paula Rushia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 
mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 8:29 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Help. .(again)



At my school, our Reading With Meaning book club was open to all grade levels, 
and as a fifth grade teacher, I'm so glad I joined it.  RWM clearly explains 
how 
to teach the strategies described in Mosaic.  I found it easy to envision how 
Miller's lessons would look in a fifth grade classroom.
Paula

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  
I had a similar experience...intermediate teachers were turned off by the  
primary focus.
One group picked Mosaic rather than Strategies That Work (it looked  shorter) 
but found it too abstract. They wanted practical.
Those that did Strategies That Work were intimidated at first by the size  of 
the book but found it the most practical and applicable of all...
Jennifer
Maryland
In a message dated 10/4/2007 9:02:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm torn  between starting with
Mosaic of Thought or Reading with Meaning. What  do you all think?
Also, as far as starting the group. . . What do you think  would be the
best possible way of advertising? We all know that not every  teacher is
open to new ideas and I really want to present it in the best  light
possible. Please share any of your thoughts or personal  experiences.







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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr
We will probably face this same problem. However, at the state training, there 
was some indication that a state level universal assessment may be developed ( 
we were talking about math at the time). Has anyone else heard of a state level 
universal assessment system?

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: jkyingling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 
mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI



I'm curious to know what will you use as your universal screening tool if
you don't use DIBELS?  Will it be AIMSWeb?  We're using DIBELS and it's just
not enough.  Our kids need screened for reading comprehension and math and
the DIBELS just doesn't do that.



Our school psychologist is pushing for DIBELS, but after using it
 briefly and reading the book by Elaine Garan where she addresses valid
reasons  for
 not using it, I'm hoping we won't.

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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr
I agree that we need to stop the referral to special ed as the first resort 
instead of the last and am hopeful that RtI will help. This is a federal 
mandate, not a state mandate, but if I understand, state can submit various 
plans for approval. 

Cathy
K-5
DE







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:07 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI



In NYS, I believe, eventual RTI (response to intervention) involvement is  
not optional.  It is part of the state push to lower special education  
classification numbers.  The idea is that we make sure we have given a  child 
the best 
possible intervention before we make assumptions about learning  
disabilities.  It also includes the idea that even if a child does have a  
learning 
disability, we need to have a real and concrete plan for addressing the  
child's 

learning needs. 
 
 In the past we worked with the discrepancy model which looked for a  certain 
gap between a child's actual achievement and their expected  potential.  That 
model assumed that the child was receiving the best  possible intervention, 
which isn't always the case.  The tiers indicate the  child's level of 
instruction, tier three being the most needy and perhaps will  end up being 
classified 
with a learning disability.  Tier one, grade level  and doing fine.
 
In our school, use of this model has been ok.  I have found that  special 
education teachers and reading teachers are working much more closely  
together. 

This is a good thing.  It's all a continuum of learning  needs, in my opinion. 
  We have had experiences with children that we  were pretty sure would end 
up under the Committee for Special Education who did  not after the tier 3 
intervention we were able to provide.  This  intervention for the most needy 
learners has worked out to be that sometimes a  child will have 3 reading 
lessons 
a day, planned pretty congruently: one from  the Title I Reading teacher, one 
from the special education teacher and one from  their classroom teacher.  
 
I've been a teacher for a long time and I do have mixed feelings about this  
stuff.  Overall, I am ok with it and have been able to shape my piece in it  
to contain what I believe to be best for my students in Title I.  I work in  a 
small district in which we are able to contribute specifically with the  
direction our programs go.  I am curious to hear other people's  experiences. 
 
Cathy 
Title I Reading
NYS



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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr

I just went to my first training for RtI on October 4. We are starting this 
year, but it is not required until Fall 2008. I am the reading specialist and 
will probably have a variety of duties - advising teachers about strategies for 
intervention, doing interventions myself, and keeping the data. I would love to 
have some advice via this group, since? we will all be implementing it soon. 



Cathy

K-5

DE


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group 
mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:37 pm
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI




Anyone from this group involved with Response to Intervention (RTI).  Our 
district just began this process this year.  I was assigned to be an 
interventionist at Tier 3.  I was told that I needed to use Options 
Intervention 
materials.  Is anyone in the same position and/or has experience using Options? 
Joyce

-- Original message -- 
From: Nancy Hagerty [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/04/07 7:39 PM  
 I'm torn between starting with 
 Mosaic of Thought or Reading with Meaning. What do you all think? 
 Also, as far as starting the group. . . What do you think would be the 
 best possible way of advertising? We all know that not every teacher is 
 open to new ideas and I really want to present it in the best light 
 possible. Please share any of your thoughts or personal experiences. 
 
 
 
 Hi Christina. 
 
 While I absolutely LOVE Reading with Meaning, many of our staff members 
 didn't even care to look at it once they found out Debbie was a first 
 grade teacher. They felt her style didn't work for them and that what 
 she was doing didn't pertain to them. (They are missing SOO much) 
 but, that being said you may want to start with the new Mosaic and then 
 move on with those that show an interest. 
 
 Good luck! 
 Nancy 
 
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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr
In some of the exploring of research I have done, I can see that the DIBELS 
researchers and the?RtI researchers overlap quite a bit.? 

Cathy
K-5
DE
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org; mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:16 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI



It is important to read the IDEA wording that includes many repetitions of 
scientific evidence. The three tiers are built on this assumed scientific 
evidence. Tier One has been used tell teachers that core reading programs 
with scientific research should meet the needs of 80% of their readers. 

We now know through the What Works Clearinghouse that NONE of these core 
programs have the scientific research that meets the requirements for 
scientific evidence. (Only Success for All had more than one scientific study 
to qualify for review, and SFA received a potentially positive rating for 
general reading achievement-but had mixed results on comprehension.) 

And, in schools where the core program hasn't met the needs of 80%, teachers 
are being pressured to believe its their fault, and/or they need to follow the 
program even more closely (implying the integrity of the program must have been 
compromised). NOT that the core program does not have any scientific evidence 
to 
support following it even more closely.

The next two tiers are supposed to meet the needs of the next 15% and 5 % of 
struggling readers. And, of course these programs are supposed to have 
scientific research too. All the programs I have seen listed in Tier 2  3 do 
NOT have effective ratings at WWC, either. (Surprised?) The programs I have 
seen 
on these Tiers are supposedly chosen because the their research was supported 
by 
Oregon Reading First. I wish I were kidding, but this seems like the Twilight 
Zone.

 Interestingly most, if not all of these programs have potentially positive 
effects on alphabetics and/or fluency at WWC, but none for comprehension, nor 
general reading achievement. (One in particular had potentially negative 
effects 
on comprehension. So for all those DIBELS schools pushing reading rate, they 
too 
might expect to see comprehension to suffer, based on this scientific 
program.) 

Importantly, on all the program Tier Frameworks I have seen Reading Recovery is 
not included at any Tier. That is the most interesting because it of course if 
the ONLY beginning reading programs to get the WWC highest rating (strong 
evidence) for general reading achievement. (I think the news that RR was 
black-balled is still being used against it by Special Ed.)

Those who have been using DIBELS are just starting to abandon it in favor of 
AIMSWEB. My question is what scientific evidence that using these screens at 
AIMSWEB actually improves reading achievement (on other measures especially) in 
comprehension or general reading achievement.  

RtI requires these screens because the students identified must be compared 
across their entire group of peers. (Claims are made that the screens are good 
for all of course.) They are attractive (screens) because they are CHEAP and 
QUICK, and can be done whole group in some cases. And, I understand the graphs 
are pretty. (But, scoring the writing screens isn't quick, I've heard.  Of 
course the fluency screen has a timed factor because how else could they graph 
something? So AIMSWEB screens just break reading down into its meaningless 
parts 
in more/different ways than DIBELS, and I have yet to see the scientific 
evidence to support it use either. 

It appears nobody at the U.S. Department of Education has told state Special 
Education departments about the What Works Clearinghouse, or the Reading First 
debacle, so they push blindly forward.

john d.


mosaic@literacyworkshop.org wrote:
What is RTI and could you please explain the tiering system further.
Thanks.
J.Hayden


On 10/6/07 6:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My district started investigating RTI last year and we are using  the tiering
 system this year. I'm an AIS reading teacher.


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Re: [MOSAIC] strategies

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr

Right now, we are planning to do an overview of our district comprehension 
strategy and word study initiatives for about 30-45 minutes with everyone. Then 
, we are splitting into three groups to do model lessons, to include the GRR 
format. I will have k-1 and I plan to do the metacognition lesson with the 
reading salad from McGregor, maybe the think bubble lesson, and then the 
connection lesson from Reading with Meaning with The Relatives Came.The 
specialists doing the other grade levels are dealing with slightly different 
lessons. 



Cathy

K-5 

DE


-Original Message-
From: Linda Buice [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 9:09 am
Subject: [MOSAIC] strategies




Hi Cathy,

 

I was interested in what you were going to do for 90 minutes

to practice gradual release of responsibility with teachers.  We are also in
need of that in our school.

 

Linda 

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Re: [MOSAIC] strategies

2007-10-08 Thread cathymillr
We are starting with Comprehension Connections this Friday at an inservice, but 
some of our teachers already teach strategies. 

Hey, I just realized that you are in Hurst-Euless-Bedford. - I used to be in 
Round Rock. Nice to hear from a Texan. Does your district want you to move away 
from the basal?

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: Judy Gray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] strategies



We are in need of moving teachers out of the basal...we have just introduced 
Debbie Miller and Ellin Keene any suggestions on how to get more teachers to 
come to the party... Judy

 Linda Buice [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/08/07 8:09 AM 
Hi Cathy,

 

I was interested in what you were going to do for 90 minutes

to practice gradual release of responsibility with teachers.  We are also in
need of that in our school.

 

Linda 

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Re: [MOSAIC] mastery of stragies

2007-10-08 Thread Bill Roberts


I still believe connections are important, but I don't worry too much about 
labeling. Do we ever really master a comprehension strategy???


I don't think it's possible to 'master' a strategy because there are always 
situations and levels of understanding that will challenge even the best 
readers.  If you understand the strategies, you have a toolbox full of 
skills that you can use to comprehend, but I don't know if that could be 
considered mastery.

Bill 


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Re: [MOSAIC] RTI

2007-10-08 Thread Tracy Gaestel
In our school district, RTI cannot be a special ed function it has to be  
in the general ed arena.

Tracy

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:18:16 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Respone to Intervention (scientific, or course). RtI is being used by  
 special ed departments in delivery of services to individual and small  
 groups of students.


 mosaic@literacyworkshop.org wrote:

 what is rti?



 Leslie

 NY

 K-8


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
 Sent: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 10:40 pm
 Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] RTI




 My district started investigating RTI last year and we are using  the  
 tiering
 system this year. I'm an AIS reading teacher. Because of the tiering   
 we have
 some groups limited to 3 kids (tier 3) and 6 kids (tier 2). We have  
 not  been
 told to use any specific program yet, but I could see it coming because  
 of
 the need for frequent progress monitoring. That is different from our  
 previous
 AIS where the kids were formally assessed 3 times a year with DRA or QRI
 testing. Our school psychologist is pushing for DIBELS, but after using  
 it
 briefly and reading the book by Elaine Garan where she addresses valid  
 reasons
 for
 not using it, I'm hoping we won't. Is your district advocating the  
 Options
 program because they wanted a common intervention for all tier 3 kids?  
 I'd also
 like to hear from other interventionists and if RTI has hit their   
 districts.
 Michelle, NY 2-5 Reading



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Re: [MOSAIC] strategies

2007-10-08 Thread Judy Gray
That is the plan eventually...right now teachers are very comfortable with the 
basal and it's a challenge for many of them to see past the drill and kill 
worksheets...
Round Rock is really growing...lots of traffic but still fun to visit...also 
I'm new to this newsletter...I guess I should have posted this on some main 
bulletin ... still learning 

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/08/07 6:38 PM 
We are starting with Comprehension Connections this Friday at an inservice, but 
some of our teachers already teach strategies. 

Hey, I just realized that you are in Hurst-Euless-Bedford. - I used to be in 
Round Rock. Nice to hear from a Texan. Does your district want you to move away 
from the basal?

Cathy
K-5
DE


-Original Message-
From: Judy Gray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] strategies



We are in need of moving teachers out of the basal...we have just introduced 
Debbie Miller and Ellin Keene any suggestions on how to get more teachers to 
come to the party... Judy

 Linda Buice [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/08/07 8:09 AM 
Hi Cathy,

 

I was interested in what you were going to do for 90 minutes

to practice gradual release of responsibility with teachers.  We are also in
need of that in our school.

 

Linda 

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