Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
Thank you for stating that whole language includes phonics. As I see it, this?debate got started by people who thought whole language meant "whole word," not sounding out words, just memorizing the "whole" word. I can't count the number of times I have seen that interpretation stated by the media covering the debate. Cathy K-5 DE -Original Message- From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 1:22 am Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists Whole language incorporates phonics instruction. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada I also like it because it is balanced between phonics and whole language styles of teaching. Joy/NC/4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org - Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
Yes, but balance for each kid depending on his needs. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada I would argue that we are still all about balance--only we are not assuming that learners have equal needs. A child who is top heavy on meaning and is neglecting visual cues needs to be counter-balanced with reminders to confirm predictions and apply phonetic understanding. Lori ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
I would argue that we are still all about balance--only we are not assuming that learners have equal needs. A child who is top heavy on meaning and is neglecting visual cues needs to be counter-balanced with reminders to confirm predictions and apply phonetic understanding. Lori On 9/29/07 11:17 PM, "Waingort Jimenez, Elisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes. And, in my last post I said, and that's whole language, but I was too > quick with the reply button. I should have said something about "balance". I > have a lot of issues with this word. It implies equal to me and that is not > what our kids need. They deserve to get what they need, which may not > necessarily be in balance with what another student needs. We need to be > astute kid watchers to know how to teach our students what they need at any > particular moment. > Elisa > > Elisa Waingort > Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual > Dalhousie Elementary > Calgary, Canada > > If we stand on the shoulders of the Goodman's and Marie Clay, we cannot > discount three cuing systems. We need to teach our readers how each works, > and allow them to operate on them. This pendulum swing is, IMO, largely > engineered by folks who have little understanding of reading process. > > Lori > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > -- Lori Jackson District Literacy Coach & Mentor Todd County School District Box 87 Mission SD 57555 http:www.tcsdk12.org ph. 605.856.2211 Literacies for All Summer Institute July 17-20. 2008 Tucson, Arizona ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
Whole language incorporates phonics instruction. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada I also like it because it is balanced between phonics and whole language styles of teaching. Joy/NC/4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org - Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
Yes. And, in my last post I said, and that's whole language, but I was too quick with the reply button. I should have said something about "balance". I have a lot of issues with this word. It implies equal to me and that is not what our kids need. They deserve to get what they need, which may not necessarily be in balance with what another student needs. We need to be astute kid watchers to know how to teach our students what they need at any particular moment. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada If we stand on the shoulders of the Goodman's and Marie Clay, we cannot discount three cuing systems. We need to teach our readers how each works, and allow them to operate on them. This pendulum swing is, IMO, largely engineered by folks who have little understanding of reading process. Lori ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
And that's whole language. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada It isn't all or nothing...we need to look at the students we teach and find the balance. Jennifer Maryland ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists/Marie Clay
Oh, I was writing in response to a post about what Marie CARBO said about learning styles, not Marie Clay. Someone was making the point that everyone had different learning styles, and we'd need to know that in order to teach effectively. While I would certainly agree with that, I noted that Marie Carbo does indeed write about varying learning styles in language arts for older kids, but says something very different about children at ages where they are typically emergent readers. > Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:13:16 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: > mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling > lists/Marie Clay> > We will never know what Marie thought about learning > styles at the emergent stage unless she wrote something before this past > April 13. A very sad day, indeed.> > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/20/world/asia/20clay.html> > Beverlee Paul > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> What does Marie say about learning styles for > children at the emergent reader stage?? Very important to know. I haven't > read anything of hers in the last five years or so, but unless she's changed > her position, we all should be very interested in what she has to say about > learning styles at those ages. > > Joy/NC/4> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> How children > learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go hand in > hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > -> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on > flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.> > ___> Mosaic mailing list> > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please > go to> > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.> > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists/Marie Clay
We will never know what Marie thought about learning styles at the emergent stage unless she wrote something before this past April 13. A very sad day, indeed. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/20/world/asia/20clay.html Beverlee Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What does Marie say about learning styles for children at the emergent reader stage?? Very important to know. I haven't read anything of hers in the last five years or so, but unless she's changed her position, we all should be very interested in what she has to say about learning styles at those ages. Joy/NC/4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
If you look at the research by Marie Carbo for children age seven or so, and younger, you will not find the same answer alluded to in the post Lori responded to. What does Marie say about learning styles for children at the emergent reader stage?? Very important to know. I haven't read anything of hers in the last five years or so, but unless she's changed her position, we all should be very interested in what she has to say about learning styles at those ages. > > If we stand on the shoulders of the Goodman's and Marie Clay, we cannot> discount three cuing systems. We need to teach our readers how each works,> and allow them to operate on them. This pendulum swing is, IMO, largely> engineered by folks who have little understanding of reading process.> > Lori> > > On 9/23/07 9:09 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > > > If you look at the research by Marie Carbo, there are reading styles.> > Analytic learners tend to get phonics and learn to read easily using it. It> > makes > > sense to them. Global learners who need the big picture first have more> > difficulty with phonics. I think we have to be careful taking an 'all or> > nothing' > > position. Every child's brain is different and will learn differently. I> > think > > we owe it to our students to find out how they learn and have methods in our> > toolbox that will meet their needs. Every time the phonics pendulum swings,> > we lose kids. It isn't all or nothing...we need to look at the students we> > teach and find the balance.> > Jennifer> > Maryland> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:> > > > I cannot discount the role of phonics in the process of learning to read,> > but I can certainly discount much of the methodology adopted to teach it. I> > think that teachers who encourage much writing in the early grades and are> > able to effectively support emergent writers in moving from stretching words> > and hold those sounds to using spelling patterns and analogy do much to> > build phonetic understanding in their students. When this is combined with> > word work that draw children from letter-by-letter analysis to using chunks> > and analogies to figure out those tricky words, I don't know that much more> > is needed. I am not sure I see a reason to use some of the of the> > terminology (long vs. short vowels, for example), but if children are aware> > of patterns such as /ead/, with the knowing that sometimes it sounds like> > /eed/ and sometimes like /ed/, they can quickly combine this knowledge with> > meaning and semantics to quickly make informed judgment calls as they read> > and increasingly refined approximations when spelling unknown words. This is> > very different from those plaid phonics books, IMO, and I am thinking most> > upper grade teachers should be quite glad of teachers that establish this> > knowledge base.> > > > Lori> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com> > ___> > Mosaic mailing list> > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to> > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.> > > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.> > > > -- > Lori Jackson> District Literacy Coach & Mentor> Todd County School District> Box 87> Mission SD 57555> > http:www.tcsdk12.org> ph. 605.856.2211> > > Literacies for All Summer Institute> July 17-20. 2008> Tucson, Arizona> > > > > ___> Mosaic mailing list> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.> > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
I guess I was too vague in my statement. I dislike the methods that many phonic programs promote, it just doesn't fit with my philosophy of teaching. I prefer the Four Blocks Month by Month Phonics, and the Sytematic Sequential Phonics which was also developed by Cunningham and Hall. I like it because it integrates the learning into other areas of literacy. I also like it because it is balanced between phonics and whole language styles of teaching. Joy/NC/4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org - Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
On Sep 23, 2007, at 9:45 AM, ljackson wrote: > If we stand on the shoulders of the Goodman's and Marie Clay, we cannot > discount three cuing systems. We need to teach our readers how each > works, > and allow them to operate on them. This pendulum swing is, IMO, > largely > engineered by folks who have little understanding of reading process. Very well and succinctly said, Lori. The sad part is that there are many people directly dealing with early reading learners who do not understand the reading process, such as the Kindergarten teacher I know who said to me, "They need to know the names of the letters before they learn the sounds." Oh? Really? I guess my Kindergartners never learned to read then, even though I didn't *teach* them the names of the letters before I *taught* them the sounds. (And how I taught them the sounds is a different story altogether. It sure wasn't by drilling of the duh duh duh type.) Renee "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~ Voltaire ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
If we stand on the shoulders of the Goodman's and Marie Clay, we cannot discount three cuing systems. We need to teach our readers how each works, and allow them to operate on them. This pendulum swing is, IMO, largely engineered by folks who have little understanding of reading process. Lori On 9/23/07 9:09 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If you look at the research by Marie Carbo, there are reading styles. > Analytic learners tend to get phonics and learn to read easily using it. It > makes > sense to them. Global learners who need the big picture first have more > difficulty with phonics. I think we have to be careful taking an 'all or > nothing' > position. Every child's brain is different and will learn differently. I > think > we owe it to our students to find out how they learn and have methods in our > toolbox that will meet their needs. Every time the phonics pendulum swings, > we lose kids. It isn't all or nothing...we need to look at the students we > teach and find the balance. > Jennifer > Maryland > In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:37:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > I cannot discount the role of phonics in the process of learning to read, > but I can certainly discount much of the methodology adopted to teach it. I > think that teachers who encourage much writing in the early grades and are > able to effectively support emergent writers in moving from stretching words > and hold those sounds to using spelling patterns and analogy do much to > build phonetic understanding in their students. When this is combined with > word work that draw children from letter-by-letter analysis to using chunks > and analogies to figure out those tricky words, I don't know that much more > is needed. I am not sure I see a reason to use some of the of the > terminology (long vs. short vowels, for example), but if children are aware > of patterns such as /ead/, with the knowing that sometimes it sounds like > /eed/ and sometimes like /ed/, they can quickly combine this knowledge with > meaning and semantics to quickly make informed judgment calls as they read > and increasingly refined approximations when spelling unknown words. This is > very different from those plaid phonics books, IMO, and I am thinking most > upper grade teachers should be quite glad of teachers that establish this > knowledge base. > > Lori > > > > > > > ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > -- Lori Jackson District Literacy Coach & Mentor Todd County School District Box 87 Mission SD 57555 http:www.tcsdk12.org ph. 605.856.2211 Literacies for All Summer Institute July 17-20. 2008 Tucson, Arizona ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] phonics was spelling lists
If you look at the research by Marie Carbo, there are reading styles. Analytic learners tend to get phonics and learn to read easily using it. It makes sense to them. Global learners who need the big picture first have more difficulty with phonics. I think we have to be careful taking an 'all or nothing' position. Every child's brain is different and will learn differently. I think we owe it to our students to find out how they learn and have methods in our toolbox that will meet their needs. Every time the phonics pendulum swings, we lose kids. It isn't all or nothing...we need to look at the students we teach and find the balance. Jennifer Maryland In a message dated 9/23/2007 10:37:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I cannot discount the role of phonics in the process of learning to read, but I can certainly discount much of the methodology adopted to teach it. I think that teachers who encourage much writing in the early grades and are able to effectively support emergent writers in moving from stretching words and hold those sounds to using spelling patterns and analogy do much to build phonetic understanding in their students. When this is combined with word work that draw children from letter-by-letter analysis to using chunks and analogies to figure out those tricky words, I don't know that much more is needed. I am not sure I see a reason to use some of the of the terminology (long vs. short vowels, for example), but if children are aware of patterns such as /ead/, with the knowing that sometimes it sounds like /eed/ and sometimes like /ed/, they can quickly combine this knowledge with meaning and semantics to quickly make informed judgment calls as they read and increasingly refined approximations when spelling unknown words. This is very different from those plaid phonics books, IMO, and I am thinking most upper grade teachers should be quite glad of teachers that establish this knowledge base. Lori ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
