Re: I wish I had an email address with 'mozilla' in it...
Since only those working directly with Mozilla have mozilla.org addresses, I wish there was like a mozillamail.org for moz lovers like me. If it's too long, mozmail.org would be fine. I would be contented with a forwarding address. Mpt uses an mozilla.org.uk address. http://www.mozilla.org.uk/ Yes. That domain belongs to me. I gave him a mailbox for Bugzilla work because mailandnews.com, his provider at the time, couldn't really cope with 600 bugmails a week. And no, you can't have one :-) Gerv
Re: Welcome to About Crib Notes
I unsubscribed [EMAIL PROTECTED] from every list on the page mentioned in the email Well done, sir :-) Gerv
Re: Must fix for 1.0?
It lacks a section: How to find bugs that can be safely taken. E.g. from other parts of the mozilla.org's homepage (the QA section) I had come under the impression that the help-wanted bugs was free --- and this was not the case :-( My ears are still burning... my apologies, yet again, to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for doing this. Not at all. According to the bug activity, that bug was returned from ASSIGNED to NEW, and set to TM Future by kmcclusk last month. If Alex was in fact working on it, the bug should not have been in that state. You did nothing wrong, and if he got angry, he had no right to be so. I presume it was by private mail, seeing as there are no comments in the bug. I'm beginning to understand why mpt wants to get rid of default component owners. :-) Gerv
Re: Must fix for 1.0?
So in the case of 5693, the mozilla1.0+ keyword means that it really should be in 1.0, but the nsbeta1- keyword means that the netscape.com people don't have time to fix it, and the target milstone of mozilla1.2beta is when it will probably end up being fixed if no one volunteers to do it now. Is that correct? That would be a fair summary of the situation. :-) Gerv
Re: issues w/ NScape 6.1
The only difference is the Gecko. That is, unfortunately, an illusion. It's the same Gecko. That date refers to the build date, and not the branch date. We are currently in the last stages of changing the User Agent standard to eliminate this problem. Gerv
Re: Whoops! Gecko, not Moz.
There is no world-wide standard. That's not quite true - 2002-03-14 is ISO date format (one of the ISO standards.) Gerv
Re: U.S. Export Reestrictions
You can't mandate a religon AND be a democracy. If you say that a Christian country is one where Christianity is mandated, then your definition of a Christian democracy is self-contradictory. As a Christian, I would argue that any country where Christianity (or any religion) is compulsory is not following Christian principles in its governance. Gerv
Re: Must fix for 1.0?
What about, for example, Bug 5693. It has the mozilla1.0+ keyword, but it also has the nsbeta1- keyword, and a target milestone of mozilla1.2alpha. Does that mean this is not going to make it into 1.0, desite the mozilla1.0+ keyword? mozilla1.0+ means [EMAIL PROTECTED] have it on their list of bugs that they are trying to persuade people to fix, and which they will consider when deciding whether 1.0 is ready yet. We hope that Mozilla coders, from all areas of the community, will concentrate on 1.0+ bugs (this means you, dear reader), but we can't easily force them to do so. Gerv
Re: Must fix for 1.0?
We hope that Mozilla coders, from all areas of the community, will concentrate on 1.0+ bugs (this means you, dear reader), but we can't easily force them to do so. Where do we sign up? :o) Search Bugzilla for 1.0+ bugs and see if there's any you are able to fix. It's that easy :-) Gerv
Re: Oh my gosh!
after you have bought the copy for your mom, would you let me ask her how good is it? I think I'll keep you well away from my mum, thanks :-) Gerv
Re: Oh my gosh!
Kenneth Pardue wrote: You mentioned buy a copy for my mum, does that mean that this is strictly designed for the simple of mind users? Is your Mum simple of mind? Mine isn't. But it's a metaphor. I've just bought a copy because a) I want to play with it and b) I want to support a company doing cool stuff with Mozilla, and which makes many valuable contributions of code and time. Other people should do the same. Gerv
Re: OEOne Homebase -- Is it all it appears to be?
I'm thinking about getting it, but I have a few questions. This is as close as I can tell to an OEOne newsgroup, and I appologize beforehand if my questions are unwanted here. They aren't unwanted; but [EMAIL PROTECTED] can probably provide better answer. 5. Since it's built on Mozilla, how seamless would a Netscape 6.x installation go over? I've always liked the progress of the Mozilla milestones, but the Netscape releases just feel a bit more polished and easier to use. The short answer is that it wouldn't. 7. How good is this word processor? There really isn't much info on it on their site. It's currently based on AbiWord. 8. Since it is based on Mozilla, are upgrades to Mozilla part of the 'automatic update' process? That is to ask, how would I update Mozilla from 0.9.8 to 0.9.9 and shortly 1.0? Are the nice and neat changes reflected in Mozilla also reflected in OEOne? Yes, and yes. Although OEOne upgrades their Mozilla less frequently than every milestone. 10. Does this have some sort of bootloader that I can configure to go between Windows and OEOne? (Again, I cite my lack of experience in Linux) I think you can probably set it up to dual-boot. It might even run off the CD - I'm not sure. Gerv
Re: Mozilla and the poetry
blackbox wrote: May i see their work?, not their work for mozilla, their independent work. If you mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] , he'll be happy to show you samples of his work. He's the highest profile UI person who doesn't work for Netscape. Lori Kaplan, Netscape's UI lead, as worked on several projects before recently joining Netscape. If you mail her politely ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and express interest, I'm sure she'd be happy to show you some stuff. Gerv
Re: Mozilla and the poetry
blackbox wrote: Read this: http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback/read.php?f=1i=1235t=1188 This article, while lucid, is basically wrong-headed. My mum is a teacher. I want my mum to use mozilla. We don't want your Mum to use Mozilla. We'd like your Mum to use Netscape 6.2.1, or Beonex Communicator. This is better for us and better for her. There are some good points in the article about how we could make things better (given an infinite amount of time), but we do not want to trade power for simplicity in any of our tools and processes. If we can have both, fine. Gerv
Re: The Standard
blackbox wrote: Are you a human ...gerv? Yes - and a Christian. God is the ultimate hacker - just look at the code reuse in DNA. Gerv
Re: Must fix for 1.0?
Bamm Gabriana wrote: Is there a list of bugs which developers consider must-fix for 1.0? A tracking bug perhaps? Will this be strictly followed? Or are there plans to go on with the release of 1.0 even if some of these bugs aren't fixed? Query for bugs with the mozilla1.0+ keyword; the dependencies of the 1.0 tracking bug are somewhat out of date. Gerv
Re: It's official AOL+Gecko
Correct. But don't expect me creating publicly available publishing site with such functionality. For about year there are rumours Gecko2 will replace current one once Mozilla 1.0 is shipped so I simply don't border with these things. That's absolutely definitely not true. There is no Gecko 2. PS: Maybe I can try to create one HTML file simulating such functionality. Hmm... I'll take a look at it. Also known as a testcase :-) Gerv
Re: Mozilla and the poetry
They has told me this: please stop wasting our time Please tell me the bug number where someone told you this, and I will investigate. even when i have taken the time to review the options in the menus for suggest a reorder of them; and build/draw some screenshots about a toolbar builder for shut up to all those kids who wants a toolbar able to be customizated. Although I don't condone the behaviour you mention, you have just walked into one of the more contentious arguments currently going on in Mozilla development :-) Tempers do tend to get a little frayed if people bring up points which have been mentioned many times before. Gerv
Re: Mozilla and the poetry
¿'HOW MANY' Designers, Graphic Designers, or Architects, or people related with the visual arts, are right now working 'WITH' the programers building and 'DESIGNING' the User Interface? Very approximately - ten. Gerv
Re: The Standard
blackbox wrote: ¿Who here knows what was the first standard in the human history? For compatibility with the Garden of Eden, and a full relationship with Me, humans MUST NOT (RFC 2119) eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil -- God, paraphrased, Genesis 3. Gerv
Help Wanted
mozilla.org is looking for help with the following tasks for Mozilla 1.0: - Tech Evangelism. There is an near-infinite amount of work that needs to be done in telling sites that their HTML is broken, and politely suggesting fixes. The team currently has a large number of bugs on its plate. The URL for getting involved in this effort is http://www.mozilla-evangelism.bclary.com/. You can also win a t-shirt by doing European evangelism - see http://www.mozilla-evangelism.bclary.com/europe/ Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Locating Missing Hackers. See http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/missing.html for details of our efforts to track down the last few contributors so we can finish the relicensing project. - Maintaining the Smoketests page (http://www.mozilla.org/quality/smoketests/). This page is important to Mozilla testing, and needs someone who can respond to requests to update the tests. Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Documenting Mozilla's Standards Compliance (or lack of it) The document we currently reference in the release notes is for Netscape 6.x, and probably doesn't reflect the true state of Mozilla's standards support. Using it as a base, this person or group of people would produce a Mozilla version which detailed the commonly-hit areas where Mozilla 1.0 differed from the relevant specs. This might build on the excellent work done in the Web Developers' FAQ and other documents, and various test suites around the web. Contact@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Problem with Netscape mail
wrong newsgroup wrong topic too much bla bla text bye bye ... :( Peter, if you can't be polite, please don't say anything. The fact that this newsgroup still has netscape in the name means that it's reasonable for people to come in here and ask Netscape questions, just as it is reasonable for us to politely point them elsewhere. Gerv
Re: beonex.com or beonex.org?
Maybe mirror the patchmaker homepage I'd appreciate it if people didn't do that :-) - see if you can make it even easier to use patchmaker with beonex than with mozilla[1]. Of He'll have a job, as I'm working hard at making it as easy to use as possible with Mozilla ;-) Gerv
Re: mozilla 0.9.9 crashes
I'm though not willing to give away detailed information about my present computer; type of processor, speed, the software I'm using, what printer I have etc. and so on. This has nothing to do with the behaviour of Mozilla during crashes. How do you know? :-) If this were the case, then the same crash would happen in the same circumstances on any machine, and we all know that's not the case. Oh No! The evil AOL/Time Warner conspiracy know I'm an Epson printer user! The printer police will be round next! Panic! Gerv
Help Wanted
mozilla.org is looking for help with the following tasks for Mozilla 1.0: - Tech Evangelism. There is an near-infinite amount of work that needs to be done in telling sites that their HTML is broken, and politely suggesting fixes. The team currently has a large number of bugs on its plate. The URL for getting involved in this effort is http://www.mozilla-evangelism.bclary.com/. You can also win a t-shirt by doing European evangelism - see http://www.mozilla-evangelism.bclary.com/europe/ Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Locating Missing Hackers. See http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/missing.html for details of our efforts to track down the last few contributors so we can finish the relicensing project. - Maintaining the Smoketests page (http://www.mozilla.org/quality/smoketests/). This page is important to Mozilla testing, and needs someone who can respond to requests to update the tests. Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Documenting Mozilla's Standards Compliance (or lack of it) The document we currently reference in the release notes is for Netscape 6.x, and probably doesn't reflect the true state of Mozilla's standards support. Using it as a base, this person or group of people would produce a Mozilla version which detailed the commonly-hit areas where Mozilla 1.0 differed from the relevant specs. This might build on the excellent work done in the Web Developers' FAQ and other documents, and various test suites around the web. Contact@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: It's official AOL+Gecko
Not and AOL member and want to test it. Join AOL (45 days free). Go to Keyword beta and join the beta test. I am using it right now and it works real well. No one will notice the difference .. that i a good thing. AOLers don't care if the browser is IE based or not but the repercusions will be great for WEB standards Yes, if you are an AOL member, get on the trial, then visit all the sites mentioned in Evangelism bugs and tell them I'm using the new AOL beta (based on Mozilla's Gecko) and it doesn't work with your site! That'll scare 'em... :-) Gerv
Patch Maker 2.0pre2 released
Patch Maker 2.0pre2 has been released; get it from: http://www.gerv.net/software/patch-maker/ Patch Maker is a Perl script for managing patches. It has two separate but related functions - it can work in one of two modes. In Build mode, which is Mozilla-specific, you can make patches to Mozilla chrome without needing a CVS tree. This massively lowers the barrier to entry for bug fixing. http://www.gerv.net/software/patch-maker/build-mode.html In CVS mode, which is most generally applicable, Patch Maker manages and tracks multiple patches to a bit of software. It uses unique tags (patch references, e.g. bug numbers) to separate patches, knows what files are in each patch, and can perform operations on them. Basically, it speeds up by a factor of ten the process of creating, diffing, uploading, refreshing, and checking in a patch. http://www.gerv.net/software/patch-maker/cvs-mode.html Gerv
Re: U.S. Export Reestrictions
Um, this isn't like the US is saying Ok, Italy you can't have this software. Look at the countries that are banned. Geez Oh, it's OK, it's only Libya, and everyone knows all Libyans are evil? I strongly disagree with this attitude. You should not discriminate against an individual based on what country they are from. Gerv
Re: scroll -- possible bug?
But Netscape 6.2.1 works perfectly well with touchpad's virtual scrolling. Again, this is only dimly remembered, but I _think_ they implemented a hack to have an invisible native scrollbar for the driver to recognise. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the man to ask about these things. Gerv
Re: Considering Mozilla upgrade from Netscape
Someone brought up a point, why doesn't Mozilla simply put the latest version of the java file in the plugin directory during installation? Well, this might be due to licensing issues... And, of course, Mozilla is not meant for end users. It's a vendor's job to package plugins with the produc.t Yes, it's this sort of thing that is meant when it is said Mozilla is not for end-users. Saying Mozilla is not for end-users is _not_ an excuse for user-unfriendliness or bad UI (as was suggested further up the thread.) Gerv
Re: U.S. Export Reestrictions
countries, then that person either should leave that country or live with the consequences of staying there. You suppose the leaving is permitted, or even feasible. If the US started threatening, say, Iraq, would you leave? Gerv
Re: Bundy vs. Jay Garcia
Not: Mozilla frigging sucks. Every page I go to loads slow as donkey testicles and I hate the thing. Does anyone have those donkey testicle comparative performance metrics we were promised some time back? I think Mozilla might beat them after the recent changes... Gerv
Re: Full screen - Multi Monitor
I don't like the way Moz works at all with dual screens, none of the menus work correctly when opening a window in the second display :~( WinXtra pathetic pro! File a bug, then :-) Gerv
Re: why is PSM not installed by default?
It is. The only way to avoid installing it is to use RPMs and not install the PSM RPM. OK, so this isn't true... Also, in recent builds, there is a sensible error message when you try and access a secure site. ...but this should be. Gerv
Re: .9.9 - Humble impressions from an end user
Also when it gives the pop up menu saying so-in-so has new messages, it seems to be tied to the account name. Wouldn't it be more prudent to make this the display name for the account, or even better, let the user choose his or her name? File a bug on this one, certainly (and your other issues, too.) Don't forget to check for duplicates :-) Gerv
Re: .9.9 - Humble impressions from an end user
Lancer Charade wrote: TOO LARGE TO BE READ, FORGET IT If you don't want to read it, you don't have to - but do however many hundred people have to be informed of this feeling? Gerv
Re: Want to give a short talk on Mozilla any ideas?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been getting a lot of questions about Mozilla lately from my computer user group. I use it on my machine with is the one usually hooked up to the projector for our meetings. They seem to think it's IE with a skin. I would like to do a full on 20 min talk about the cool features of the future Moz 1.0 (since it's just polishing now) I've given a talk to my LUG. You can find the slides here: http://www.mozilla.org.uk/oxlug/ Check out the Showing Off section at the bottom of that page. Gerv
Re: .9.9 - Humble impressions from an end user
How nice. I guess you never used it then. I 've tested it and don't use it for other stuff than managing files. And also this is much more worse than in KDE1. There is no reason for it. Can we please not have this argument here? If you must bicker, please do it by email. Thank you :-) Gerv
Re: Disabled javascript console
Vladan Kukol wrote: Hello all, is there exists a special setting to disable javascript console? What do you mean by disable it? You mean you don't want the user to be able to look at it? If so, just remove it from the menu by editing the XUL. Gerv
Re: scroll -- possible bug?
Jerry Park wrote: Mozilla responds to a wheel mouse as expected. However, using a touchpad with virtual scrolling, there is no response in mozilla, though all other programs seem to respond well. Is this a known problem? Sort of. Touchpad drivers like that are a bit of a hack - they look for native scrollbars and manipulate them. As Mozilla doesn't have native scrollbars, it doesn't respond. That's how I understand it, anyway. Gerv
Re: U.S. Export Reestrictions
If Mozilla is a international free software project supported by developers of many countries (not only from U.S.), why is under U.S. export laws?? Because the development of the cryptographic software was done in the US, and the primary download servers are in the US, and both the code servers are in the US. If any individual person from Iran, Iraq, Libya, etc. want to use the software or collaborate in the project, is banned?? Depends what you mean by banned. I would have thought it would be safe to install all RPMs apart from PSM, for example. If the reason is that the server mozilla.org resides phisically in the U.S. what about move this server to another country that don't have these reestricticons? Are you offering to host it? Gerv
Re: ftp.mozilla.org really lagging bad , are there mirror sites fortonights nightlies?
Netscape Basher wrote: Are there mirror sites besides ftp.mozilla.org? http://www.mozilla.org/mirrors.html . But not all of them have picked up 0.9.9 yet. Gerv
Re: why is PSM not installed by default?
Jonathan Wilson wrote: I notice a lot of people that post in various places saying https doesnt work, I cant get to xyz secure site etc etc and half the time its because they didnt know that PSM needed to be installed. Why isnt it installed by default? It is. The only way to avoid installing it is to use RPMs and not install the PSM RPM. Also, in recent builds, there is a sensible error message when you try and access a secure site. How old are the builds you are talking about? Gerv
Re: Who is the user?
You say this was inspired by Alan Cooper's /The inmates are running the asylum/, but only one of your four personas (Ling) is a `user' as Cooper would understand the term. You appear to be describing people using the Mozilla *code*, rather than those using a *product* which includes the code. _Exactly_. This is a major point I'm making. These people are mozilla.org's customers. The people you are talking about (end-users, if you like) are represented in the way Mozilla does things, it should be through those people who actually consume the code. understandable approach, but it is prone to severe bias. For example, the number of Lings (Mozilla testers/hackers) will surely be an order of magnitude greater than the number of Hanses (ISP distributors). Does that mean that Mozilla should concentrate on pleasing the Lings more than it concentrates on pleasing the Hanses? I hope not, since Hans will get Mozilla user agents used by far more people than Ling will. No. I never claimed that the number of each type of user was a factor. I am merely attempting to identify the different classifications. I doubt that Hans will be able to afford enough of an investment in Mozilla that he can either (1) deploy XUL account maintenance apps, or (2) hack Mozilla's XUL to remove unwanted menu/toolbar items. While Mozilla may be the ISP's default browser, they can't afford to lock out the fraction of customers who prefer browsers which don't support XUL, 1) is a fair point. I think that removing rubbish from Mozilla's menus is trivial, though. Finally, do you have Ling's phone number? Actually, yes :-) I know where I got the photo from, and she's a friend of mine. But I'm not going to tell you who she is - that would be unfair. Gerv
Re: Mozilla .9.9 released for Windows
Outlook Express - easy to use kill filter Mozilla - no usenet kill filter Scratch your itch, dude, and fix it so we have one :-) Gerv
Re: Mozilla .9.9 released for Windows
The easiest thing to do is just plonk, killfile, or pass over anything by that little troll who started the thread Our release numbering scheme is not the most transparent thing in the world, and has confused many people before (and surely will do so again.) There's no need to call people names because they don't understand it. Gerv
Who is the user?
http://www.mozilla.org.uk/docs/personae/ This is my contribution to the Who is Mozilla's target user? debate. Comments welcome :-) Gerv
Re: Memory Leaks in Mozilla
We already noticed this (and IE does not work better !!!) So should we expect good results in a reasonable delays if we work on tracking down memory leaks in Mozilla ??? We would very much appreciate you doing this work I'm sure your patches would get attention Gerv
Re: Similar Behaviour to IE BHO
A company I am cooperating with wants to create a browser extension that will be part of a B2B system that will be used by end-users throughout Europe The extension must be able to: - Install itself so that it will be loaded whenever the user's web browser starts - Add buttons/menus/windows to the user's web browser interface - Intercept any web page the user loads and search its contents for data - Open sockets, HTTP/HTTPS connections, files, etc They're going to do it on MSIE using their browser helper objects (BHO) technology My question is: can this be done also for Netscape 6x and other Mozilla-based browsers using XUL and XPCom? Yes, definitely I'm a bit confused with the documentation at mozillaorg and I'm just looking for pointers to more documentation etc Your first port of call should probably be the XUL and XPCOM newsgroups Also, are there any legal problems, since Mozilla is open-source and this application will be closed-source? You need to read the license for the full info, but no - if you use the code under MPL terms, you have to publish changes you make to Mozilla's files, but any code you put in new files of your own creation you can keep closed-source if you wish Gerv
Re: Memory Leaks in Mozilla
Sorry for those who already received this message. We are testing Mozilla in our Win 32 application which run unattended 24 hours a day and have found a memory leak. Even a few bytes leak will cause an application crash and this is not acceptable in our environment. We would like to know if somebody is dealing with the same memory leak problem and if a fix is available or coming soon. n.p.m.performance and n.p.m.porkjockeys are probably the best places to ask about this. Obviously, we are trying to eliminate memory leaks, but we haven't got to them all yet :-) If you are running on Windows, you should be automatically rebooting every few days for stability reasons anyway. Gerv
Re: Speaking of never removing the netscape....
Couldn't they use the same servers, just set up a new directory and offer it as a separate NG? Is it really that hard to do? Yes, probably. No, not really. I don't think the obstruction is technical. I'm not actually sure what it _is_ - presumably lack of time on the part of the relevant support staff. Gerv
Re: Bugzilla and search engines
Well if there are only seconds and no objections I think it should be done. Somebody could just rm robotx.txt... This is not a good idea. Google's index of a bug would rapidly go out of date. You are solving the wrong problem. If Bugzilla's querying system makes it hard for you to find the bug you want, we should simplify the querying system, not reinvent it. Gerv
Re: Bugzilla and search engines
Yes and no. You're right that it'd go out of date /rapidly/ but sooner or later it'll be indexed becoming avaiable and, IMO, the utility of the Google (or your favorite search engine) indexing is more the ability to able to search quickly in all the Bugzilla database and, once you had the first results with it, you can always use the real Bugzilla for the latest information. So, tell me why Google is better for searching our bug database than the Quicksearch on the front page of http://bugzilla.mozilla.org ? Gerv
Re: Speaking of never removing the netscape....
It would be nice if the transfer to a purely Mozilla-named nesserver were to finally happen. Everyone agrees it would be nice :-) But unless you are going to stump up the servers and bandwidth, we'll just have to keep plugging away at persuading Netscape to sort it out :-) Gerv
Re: Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
pmn should be changed to pmuj. Yeah, the docs need a review :-) If anyone wants to sanity-check them and send me a patch, I'd be extremely grateful. I'm a bit snowed under at the moment. Gerv
Re: Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
Jonas Jørgensen wrote: Perhaps you should change the Content-Type sent for http://www.gerv.net/software/patch-maker/pm. The current one, text/plain, makes Mozilla on Windows add a .txt extension when saving it. Hmm. I want it to display inline for people; I like that behaviour. What type would you suggest? I'm not sure I have control of the Apache config anyway, so that might be academic. Gerv
Re: Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
BTW, will beta 2 have a default datadir of my $datadir = File::Spec-catdir(File::Spec-updir(), File::Spec-updir(), pm); (like v0.7x) instead of my $datadir = /home/gerv/pm; No. The default datadir will always be the one I use :-) The reason it's no longer relative is that relative worked for 0.7.5, within the constraints of directory structure outlined in the documentation. However, I want all my patches stored in a central directory (and I think other people will too) and I have code in /usr/src/bugzilla/ , /usr/src/zillas/bugzilla-2002-XX-XX, /home/gerv/somedirectory/somecodedir and whatever. Why is editing the path a problem? Gerv
Re: Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
I've tried it with a 2002-02-19-03 Win32 build which should have that checkin - still no luck. Tried /, \ and \\ as path delimiters (sp?). Are you on Windows? I haven't had a chance to test build mode fully yet; if you can work out what's wrong (check the find_matching_files() functions) let me know. I'll try and do some testing later this week. This is why it's beta. :-) However, I realise getting it fixed is a priority, since I broke the old one. Jonas wrote: Gerv: The / instead of \ and missing .pl extension in BAT files problem that I mailed you about does not seem to fixed yet... Fixed in 2.0beta2, released soonish. Gerv
Re: Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
I might just have been too fast and you're still uploading stuff, but anyways, all your chromelist.txt files are 404s at the moment Yep. Chromelist.txt should come with a recent-enough nightly on all platforms except MacOS 9 (which doesn't support Patch Maker 2 anyway.) Gerv
Re: Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
q src=http://www.gerv.net/software/patch-maker/build-mode.html; Note: version 2 of Patch Maker requires a new format to the chromelist.txt file. Therefore, chromelist.txt will need to be obtained from this page until bug 125588 is fixed. /q That bug is fixed now :-) Gerv
Re: Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
Does the new patchmaker still understand the .diff, .chromediff and .files file from an old installed patchmaker? I ask because I have a number of outstanding patches and if I have to upgrade my patchmaker I don't want to lose these. Good question. In principle, yes - but the changes to the format of chromelist.txt may confuse it. To tell the truth, I haven't tested this - I simply haven't had time. Back up your data directory and give it a go :-) One of the changes to Patch Maker 2 makes it more compatible with the layout of unjarred chrome in tarballs. This meant a change to the format of the chromelist.txt file which ships with nightlies. Unfortunately, this change is not backwardly-compatible. Patch Maker 0.75 will not work with nightlies from 2002-02-17 onwards, and Patch Maker 2.0 will not work with nightlies before that date. Will patch-maker ignore lines that it doesn't understand in a chromelist.txt file? It will ignore lines prefixed with # or @, for backwardly- and forwardly-compatible reasons. Before 2.0 final, it may do more things. I ask because I have some implementation thoughts on how to allow patch-maker to add completely new files in chrome patches. I haven't tried to implement it yet, but I think the theory is sound. It goes something like this: 1) When generating chromelist.txt from the jar.mn files, add a line at the beginning indicating which jar.mn file contained these lines. For The incompatible changes were to add this information - unjar now unjars each jar into a directory named after itself, to match the layout of tarballs. 2) In the pma command, if the file cannot be found in the chromelist, offer the opportunity to add it as a completely new file. If the user accepts this option, they must specify a guide file which would be a file that *does* exist in chromelist, in the same location as the new file being added. The location to put the new file in the build tree, and which jar.mn to add it to, would be taken from this guide file. That's an interesting idea. However, this feature (as you describe it) would add a great deal of complexity to the code. Gerv
Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 released
Patch Maker version 2.0beta1 was officially released at FOSDEM (http://www.fosdem.org) on Sunday. This first release in the 2.0 series builds on Patch Maker version 0.75. Patch Maker 2 has two modes of operation: Build Mode Patch Maker retains the ability to hack on Mozilla chrome without needing a CVS tree. A few tweaks and bugfixes have been made to this version. All Patch Maker users need to upgrade - see the note below for why. CVS Mode -- Patch Maker is much more in version 2.0 - it's now a general system for managing patches in a CVS tree, and (in the case of chrome patches) syncing them up with a nightly for testing, avoiding the need to build. Patch Maker keeps track of your patch as a unit, and allows you to quickly and easily perform common operations on the files in it - grepping them, editing a subset, and cvs operations like update, add and checkin. This mode is not specific to Mozilla. I cannot stress strongly enough how much this software can make your life easier. Ask anyone who attended my FOSDEM talk - they are all convinced ;-) Find Patch Maker at http://www.gerv.net/software/patch-maker/ Important Note: --- One of the changes to Patch Maker 2 makes it more compatible with the layout of unjarred chrome in tarballs. This meant a change to the format of the chromelist.txt file which ships with nightlies. Unfortunately, this change is not backwardly-compatible. Patch Maker 0.75 will not work with nightlies from 2002-02-17 onwards, and Patch Maker 2.0 will not work with nightlies before that date. I apologise for this Microsoft-like forced-upgrade behaviour; this was caused by my own incompetence. Gerv
Re: Which part of the source does font rendering?
James Ots wrote: Hi, Could someone tell me where in the source code the font rendering is done in Linux versions of mozilla? rbs is your man. [EMAIL PROTECTED] . His address is in Bugzilla, on almost any bug relating to fonts. Gerv
Re: Changing Account Address
email [EMAIL PROTECTED], ask him to change your account email. That address isn't guaranteed to work, given that I don't work there any more - [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a much better bet. Gerv
Re: ekrock's standards page... new location?
It's now at http://www.stopbadtherapy.com/standards.shtml Er... no it's not ;) It was 12 hours ago... Gerv
Re: Suggestion for Messenger
Ooopss.. I guess I didn't read carefully. I don't know how to get alternate lines. There may be a CSS 3 selector which does something like this - have a read of the spec. Gerv
Re: user_pref(browser.bookmark_location
Max Bentz wrote: Is there any option to use one single bookmarks.html-file at a multibootsystem (WIn98, Win200 and Linux) with the new Mozilla 0.9.7? My prefs.js line does not seem to work: user_pref(browser.bookmark_location, C:\\bookmark.htm); Wrong pref, mate. Check the release notes for 0.9.5 or somewhere around there - the correct pref name is documented. Gerv
Re: Page setup in Mozilla 0.9.5
and I got rid of the undesired text...but the margins still exist. I need to print clean pages, without any margins and without any additional text. Has any of you a solution for this? You may be out of luck. At the 0.9.5 stage, our printing wasn't brilliant. In any case, this is probably not the best newsgroup to ask in. I can't remember if there's a printing group, but I believe [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the Printing King, so you could mail him. Gerv
Re: Here is what Mozilla needs PERIOD.
-- Big License block - useless for maint. What on earth does that mean? The license doesn't change (unless you add a new contributor.) -- No file description block - What does this object do? Where is the reference to the Object Behavior Description? Surprisingly enough, not everyone in the world uses those. -- No Change log (CVS or RSC or whatever, the change log should be in the source as well) Why? Surely this is a project management decision, not a decree-from-on-high absolute. There are arguments on both sides. If you want the change log, ask CVS or Bonsai (for the cvs-challenged.) Now, there are probably processes in place that are understood by the full-time developers; tools; perl scripts; some sort of design docs squirled away. You'd think, wouldn't you? ;-) But these are no help to someone you feel could be constructive working on a piece of code. A person can't just pick a file and start coding. That would be a silly way to work on any project. Why do you want to change this file anyway? What are the naming conventions? They are on the website. How are the error catchers handling destructors in the multi-threaded environment? You expect this to be described in the comments of every source code file? I'm not claiming our code is nice - a lot of it isn't. But you are going about this the wrong way. Gerv
Re: history
Gregor Haddow wrote: After wrestling with IE I have decided to go with Mozilla for my project - it being open source. I am writing a program that reads the history of a user, interprets the data and then stores it in a database to be used later. Can anyone please tell me how to access and interpret the data stored in the browser history? Any advice would be helpful. It's the history.dat file in your profile directory; it's a database from Mork, which is Mozilla's built in little database for this sort of thing. I don't know how you could get the data out - you'd need to study the file. Gerv
Re: 'Modern' native widget theme
Could someone please point me in the direction of some documentation on creating themes. I'll like to dump Modern or Classic out to a folder and then mod the contents of the folder to try and get the exact theme I want. I remember this being possible when the releases where still prefixed with M, but can't remember the details. Try http://www.xulplanet.com . Depending on how many changes you make, you may well be able to use Patch Maker for this - you could then share your mods with other people with the same or a similar build. http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/patch-maker/ .
Re: Cache defect not fixed
By the way, weren't there plans to also relicense the currently MPL-only files? How's the progress on this one? Ongoing :-) You should hear something more about that soon. I just need half a spare day to draw some things together. Gerv
Re: [PATCH] Still no indication that a download has failed.
Custodial Services: Will people please stop leaving the light on all night when they go home? It wastes electricity. New York Times: NewLightCo was today bought by Microsoft in lieu of a large light debt for their use of ActiveLight. A spokesman for NewLightCo said To get our product finished, we had to burn the midnight oil - well, you know what I mean - and we just didn't make it. Gerv
Re: Cache defect not fixed
Oh, I also got some motion happening on relicensing with my Licensing Statistics posts. And got the ball rolling on perfomance criteria for the 1.0 release. But who's counting? As the person who actually did the work for relicensing, I can say with certainty that your post was merely coincidentally timed. And no, you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. But everyone else will. Gerv
Re: Some clarification
Sören Kuklau wrote: I just asked whether people agreed so I could find out whether there generally is interest - which there is, seemingly even by mozilla.org staff (Gerv). As soon as I find some time, I'll try and start designing it. Excellent. A good set of FAQs for Mozilla would be a great resource. My tip would be to collect the data first (in a plain text file, or whatever) and worry about the markup later; because www.mozilla.org is evolving at the moment, things may change. Gerv
Re: [PATCH] Still no indication that a download has failed.
to *triple*-check Marketing's expense accounts. Procurement: It seems the Sun currently has a monopoly on free light, and its reliability has been called into question regularly. Service during supposedly up times is also subject to random interruption by things called clouds. Can Finance release financial resource for the procurement of pay-per-minute lighting? Gerv
Re: Automatic favicon.ico requests
To expect Mozilla representatives to be able to evangelize any significant percentage of these sites to use the link solution is IMO overly optimistic. It may be overly optimistic in your opinion, Dave, but why could you not have adopted the plan I suggested at the beginning? That was - leave it turned off by default - give those who want to evangelise a couple of months to put their time where their mouth is - if still no sites are using link, turn it on. However, by turning it on immediately, you rob them of any leverage in doing that evangelism - Hey! Use link rel=icon for cool tab-related and URL bar effects in Mozilla and Netscape 6 Er, we already get that. Um Gerv
Re: Automatic favicon.ico requests
*You* thought it was cool. The rest of the world doesn't seem to agree. What does the @mozilla.org people think about this? I don't recall ever seeing a single comment about this from any of them. [EMAIL PROTECTED] discussed this issue at (great) length, and it was decided that the feature should be left enabled. Gerv
Re: [PATCH] Still no indication that a download has failed.
jesus X wrote: Simon P. Lucy wrote: LetThereBeLight() light = 1 Customer Requirements Document -- After consultation, we have discovered that customers prefer darkness, for energy and cost-saving reasons. This program is therefore entirely unnecessary. Gerv
Re: Fire Dave Hyatt
lake Ross wrote: This is a petition to fire David Hyatt for his crimes against the World Wide Web, namely his implementation of automatic favicon retrieval. Does this involve petrol and matches? Gerv
Re: Automatic favicon.ico requests
How many non-AOL employees were involved in that decision? Mozilla *is* still an Open project, right? You can see the makeup of [EMAIL PROTECTED] from our web pages. I can't recall exactly who attended that particular meeting; as it was a heated one, perhaps others can. Gerv
Re: [PATCH] Still no indication that a download has failed.
Marketing: we need a big push for customers to prefer light, so we can sell them something. Engineering: we are currently overloaded providing darkness; there's no way we can provide light as well. Suggest marketing attempt to sell more darkness, as it's a zero-cost resource. Gerv
Re: Stable Mozilla Build
Most stable? 0.9.4.1+, without a shadow of a doubt. Gerv Where could i get a binary (0.9.4.1+) from ftp ? 0.9.4.1 was a source-only release. You can find it at ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozilla0.9.4.1/ 0.9.4.1+ is the continuation of that branch in CVS. You can either pull it and built it yourself (MOZILLA_0_9_4_BRANCH, I think) or check the nightlies directory for directory names ending in ec, where you can find Windows builds only. Gerv
Re: Lack of themes
Not the specs - back in September certain short-sighted developers effectively told 3rd party theme designers to go forth and multiply, with unsurprising results... Which bit of it's not finished yet do you, or they, have trouble understanding? Either: 1) You try and keep up with XUL development, and accept that things will break 2) You make your skin for one specific Mozilla version or 3) You wait until XUL 1.0 and then make a skin. Those are your options. Magic option 4: 4) Make a skin and have it magically work with every Mozilla version ever does not exist. XUL will get frozen when it's ready, and not a moment later. Gerv
Re: NewZilla
Sören Kuklau wrote: Is there any chance that NewZilla gets updated again? (last updated June 14th, 2001) I considered it a useful ressource for Newbies to Netscape 6 and Mozilla. I was in contact with Alex for a while about moving the FAQ to mozilla.org, but he kept dropping out of sight. www.mozilla.org would love to have a Newzilla-like section, so if anyone wants to write one, get in touch :-) The advantage of this is that if one owner drops out, another one can be found to carry on with things. Gerv
Re: Stable Mozilla Build
news.mozilla.org wrote: What's the most stable version of Mozilla comparable to the Netscape 6.2 build? Most stable? 0.9.4.1+, without a shadow of a doubt. Gerv
Re: What is MachV to Mozilla/Netscape???
I've seen those and many others, and of course you can't please everyone. There are a lot of opinions out there, but we have professional designers and usability engineers who analyze aggregated statistical feedback, usability tests, and other hard data, and try to improve the product through the best methods accepted in the industry. Peter - in your mental model of a good UI process for Mozilla, is there any circumstance in which the UI decision taken would be one not corresponding to the view of Netscape's UI team? Gerv
Re: Mozilla port to the FOX GUI Toolkit.
S. Merde wrote: I'll have to look into this more, but basically all that needs to be done is replacing the existing graphics routines (of GTK+, etc.) with those used by FOX? I'm sure it's not as easy as just doing that, but I think you get the idea. This newsgroup is probably not the best one to be asking in; try mailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] to begin with. Gerv
Re: New Window Leaves Focus in URL bar?
This has been discussed in the UI newsgroup. You may love it, but it is almost always a defect. When a new window has content loaded, the content should be focused so it can be scrolled, etc. This is the way Nav 4.x, IE and Opera work, about as close as you can get to a universal browsing experience. Only when loading a known blank window is there any reason to focus the URL bar by default. Opera does this. Sure. This is the behaviour I love. (What I don't love is getting a new blank window with the content area focussed.) Gerv
Re: New Window Leaves Focus in URL bar?
But should it be this way? Should focus automatically go into the URL bar? Yes. I _love_ this. Or should Ctrl-W function the same there as in the rest of display panes? Yes. This should also work. Gerv
Re: Spammage
These mailing lists are also Usenet groups (which is how most of the people here access them, FWIW). Spammers post here, hoping to find someone dumb enough to read their messages. Actually, 90% of the spam comes in via the mailing list gateway. It's a recognised problem; [EMAIL PROTECTED] is considering options to deal with it. Gerv
Re: possible bugs in mozilla mail and news
Jonathan Wilson wrote: If these are known about, can someone provide bugzilla bug numbers? Searching Bugzilla isn't that hard :-) If you can't find them, feel free to file them. Gerv
Re: duplicate files in latest nightlies
Travis Crump wrote: In the latest nightlies(win32 talkback zip(win2k)), when I unjar my jar files(using Patchmaker), I get warning messages that files are going to be overwritten(I tell it to overwrite All). Since the files are being unjared to directories which didn't exist before I started to unjar, this implies that the same file exists in multiple jar files. My question is: Is their a good reason for this? I am tempted to file a bug, but if there is a good reason for it then it wouldn't really be a bug(since Mozilla behaves normally)... If there is a good reason for this, does this needlessly increase the footprint size or are files only loaded into memory once even if they are found in multiple places(though it would still increase the download size)... Thanks... embed.jar, en-US.jar, en-win.jar, and toolkit.jar are the jars that want to overwrite files, and the files are unjared alphabetically. Yes; the jar files for all platforms ship on each platform - this is supposed to aid debugging. Patch Maker has logic which tries to work around this by not unjarring the platform jars for the platforms you aren't on, but maybe things have got a bit more complex since I wrote it. Please send me email giving the entire output of a pmu (unjar) command on a fresh install, and tell me what OS you are on. Gerv
Re: Updated Spel checker faq
Gerv did not write: Does Mozilla have a spell checker? This document was not written by me, as a short comparison of it with other stuff I've written will quickly show. For a start, the From line on all my mails has my name as Gervase Markham, not Gerv. Secondly, the NNTP-Posting-Host is not me: NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.41.163.winterpark-ubr-a.cfl.rr.com If anyone knows who that is, I'd be most interested. I am not amused. Impersonation is a serious business. Gerv
Re: favicon
A Scientific Wild-Ass Guess (SWAG) based on what I know about how the favicon system caches misses, the fact that most users close their browser when they are not using it, Here you were assuming that the not-found cache is lost at the end of a session. That's not the case. My reading of the meeting concerned was that no-one knew one way or the other. If that's been cleared up, great. and what seemed like sensible website usage per user for a random high-traffic site (100 page views per session.) I have no idea if that's representative, but do you mean 100 distinct sites visited per session (page views != site views, and the favicon probe will happen at most once per site, per session under any caching scenario)? Anyway, the not-found cache persists across sessions. I meant 100 distinct pages on the same site; that is, you divide the 15M by 100 to get the number of user sessions. But this is not applicable if the cache persists. It was for illustrative purposes only - are my numbers more than an order of magnitude off? Yes, if the cache works differently from how you assume -- you had 300MB (b for byte in your message, I'm assuming) of log space wasted on a month's worth of favicons not found, for a site that gets 15M hits/month, at 400 bytes/log-message. That's 300MB/400B or 750K messages, but 750K is 1/20th of 15M -- so you seem to be assuming every 20th hit gets a favicon not found. What's behind that assumption? Oops, I messed up. 60Mb, not 300Mb. Not sure what went wrong there. 50MB of disk cache is a lot. It may be that favicon-not-found entries expire so rarely that the hit rate and consequent log space for any server is tiny. We should measure, again. Modeling the costs seems hard to me right now, and not as fruitful as actual measurement. OK. But also users may visit a site once, and never go back - in these cases, the number of favicon 404s will be much higher fraction per page hit. On certain sites where this happens a lot (non-sticky sites) the problem will be greater. Gerv
Re: favicon
Strongly seconded here (wearing my webmaster and evangelism hats). This feature was turned on by Dave Hyatt on the Mozilla trunk two days ago, at 1am Pacific Time. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109843 http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsview2.cgi?diff_mode=contextwhitespace_mode=showsubdir=mozilla/modules/libpref/src/initcommand=DIFF_FRAMESETfile=all.jsrev1=3.296rev2=3.297 Gerv
Re: favicon
Michael Nahrath wrote: Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This feature was turned on by Dave Hyatt on the Mozilla trunk two days ago, at 1am Pacific Time. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109843 Gerv Gerv, what is your oppinion about this? I think it's the wrong thing to do, rude and unnecessary. My view was that, with no releases in the next couple of months, it should have been left off in commercial and Mozilla to leave room for evangelism of the form of If you add this link tag, Mozilla will support your favicon in tabs and the URL bar. As it is, such evangelism carries no weight because authors can say but it works anyway. As it is, I see that we will be stuck with this bad behaviour for many years because once it's turned on, it can't be turned off at all easily. Did they change your mind or did they ignore you? They listened to me, then ignored me :-) Gerv
Re: favicon
Mike Cramer wrote: Jason Bassford wrote: Bad behaviour (causing unnecessary traffic) as a default on the part of a browser should not be condoned. Let's see here. Assume you get 1000 pageviews a day from 100 people. A request for /favicon.ico is something like what? 30 characters? Plus a response about the same size (if you touch favicon.ico)? And this happens once per user? That's 3K worth of traffic. Add a 2K favicon and you end up with 63K of traffic. And adds a 400-byte error report to your log. Now look at a site like mozilla.org, which gets 15 million hits a month. Assume it doesn't want a favicon, that most users use Mozilla/Netscape, and that each Mozilla user's browser checks for the icon once a week - say once every 100 page loads. How many bogus log entries is that in a month? 300Mb. Why should webmasters have to put up with or work around this? Gerv
Re: favicon
Brendan Eich wrote: Assume [...] that each Mozilla user's browser checks for the icon once a week - say once every 100 page loads. Why are you assuming any such thing? Evidence? A Scientific Wild-Ass Guess (SWAG) based on what I know about how the favicon system caches misses, the fact that most users close their browser when they are not using it, and what seemed like sensible website usage per user for a random high-traffic site (100 page views per session.) It was for illustrative purposes only - are my numbers more than an order of magnitude off? Gerv
Re: question: why do people continue to use ns4.x instead of ns6/mozilla?
I've repeatedly reported this here and get blown off as some sort of nut case eccentric. Instead of asking others whether they have had similar experiences. Dude, we completely believe that it doesn't work _for_ _you_. No-one doubts that. We promise :-) But that doesn't mean you can make statements like plugins are broken on the Mac when they work for other people. If you are asking for other people's experiences, say Plugins don't work for me - how about you? Gerv
