Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[David Shove]

h elected
> officials we let get by with doing minimal work, yet the political power to
> stay in office.  Does money impact some of that yes...but it isn't the whole
> "ball of wax"...Don't we have to admit that part of the problem is simple
> complacency...?  How do we change that...?
> 
> Another issue that impacts the process of balance (I think I believe this I
> have to admit I struggle with this issue...) that we need to elect and
> promote people of a higher caliber to run for office.  That is hard to do
> for many reasons.  The negative, nasty, and personal nature of a campaign is
> not very attractive.  Then hold on to your seats (here's the tough
> part...)...it doesn't pay very much if you have the credentials to run a
> budget the size of Minneapolis!
> 
> I know many good people who would be very interested in running for office
> and can commit that they would do so for only a short period of time.  They
> would do so as public service, and use this opportunity to service their
> community and have this be a part of their career development or concluding
> career "pay-back".  But how do they afford to do so..?
> 
> I know the public has great disgust for that attitude but it is at least a
> discussion for review...
> 
> It has certainly been my experience to a large extent (but only one person)
> that non-responsiveness is due to burn-out.  Elected officials don't leave
> office too frequently because they don't know where they go next and have
> the same job benefits and pay.  This is the best they'll have in their
> minds...we could all name examples from the past whereby we know that this
> is true...
> 
> But we continue to elect them!  And we do because no one will run...
> 
> This is an exciting election year.  But the only one in many many
> years...Understand that I do not yet support anyone in any race...however I
> truly look forward to the debate...!  Let's all try to get our neighbors and
> friends and even associates involved...not only to vote but to work for the
> candidates they choose and to contribute even a small amount of money...the
> system needs it and until that changes let's not pretend it doesn't
> matter...convince your neighbors...
> 
> Because I'm a little nervous doing for the first time I hope to be more
> articulate in the future...I appreciate your patience and I truly look
> forward to continued discussions on this issue.  The list has many
> insightful and interesting opinions...Thanks for letting me be a part!!
> 
> I'm Learning a lot from YOU!!
> Kim Carlson
> Bottineau
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kim Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: j burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Annie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
> 
> 
> >Good Morning...Let me introduce myself to list participants because I've
> >never written before.  My name is Kim Carlson, I live in Bottineau in
> >glorious Northeast!  I work as a consultant and sometimes lobbyist, I've
> >been very active in every neighborhood I've lived in Minneapolis and I at
> >one time worked as an aide to a Minneapolis City Council Member.  In
> >addition I've worked for a Senator in Washington, and volunteered to do
> >non-paid, non-formal work at the State Legislature.  I used to be (long
> ago)
> >very active in party politics but have not done so for years...
> >
> >I find the discussion regarding the Council and appropriate responsiveness
> >very compelling.  However, I 'll admit readily I'm no expert but can bring
> a
> >little different
> >-Original Message-
> >From: j burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:41 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
> >
> >
> >>I've been viewing this list for quite some time and am puzzled by the
> "weak
> >>mayor system" reference. Has anyone considered the possibility that,
> >>currently, Minneapolis may indeed just have a WEAK MAYOR? One who's
> >>invisible until there's an election in her midst? I remember at the start
>

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[j burns]

True, and I agree with you to a point, but personally believe that anyone 
who voted for SSB simply because she was a woman of color is a sexist and 
racist. If that's all it took to win an office in this town the ballots 
would be a mile long.

In addition, there are many families in this city, with children, some 
handicapped or maybe just hungry, who work at low-paying jobs (if they're 
lucky) and are homeless, or live next to drug dealers, or worse. I won't 
accept the fact that it's ok for us to live there, but our poor mayor had to 
move out??!! She's the one, who when confronted during a city council 
meeting about the infamous "Crack Tour", responded that we should not drive 
by those drug dealers and prostitutes on the corner and fear for our lives, 
but "get out of the car to talk to them and treat those young people with 
respect".
That particular stance, along with her blatant absence during the entire 
affordable housing task force process made me, for lack of a better term; 
want to HURL.

Why should I as a citizen take her personal situation into account when she 
places her personal situation, her potential promotions to D.C., and her 
potential re-election above the issues that directly affect all of the OTHER 
residents of this city?
JBurns
Cleveland



>From: "wizardmarks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "j burns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],  
>[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:39:01 -0800
>
>It could be that she was reelected because her opponents were not that 
>fine,
>sort of a better the devil you know situation.
>WMarks, Central
>
>j burns wrote:
>
> > I've been viewing this list for quite some time and am puzzled by the 
>"weak
> > mayor system" reference. Has anyone considered the possibility that,
> > currently, Minneapolis may indeed just have a WEAK MAYOR? One who's
> > invisible until there's an election in her midst? I remember at the 
>start of
> > her first term how she swore she'd never move out of her ward. A few 
>months
> > later, it was "hello Edmund Blvd". Her supporters lamented how her 
>"little
> > tiny house just wasn't adequate". Poor thing. A lot of the citizens in 
>this
> > city don't have a choice! And that little property tax fiasco at her 
>lake
> > home? It was shrugged off, by her darling husband in the Sayles Belton
> > Tribune as a simple little accounting error. Aww...
> >
> > I must say, after viewing the comments on this forum, that most
> > Minneapolitans don't feel she's measured up. I was puzzled why she was
> > elected to a second term, and equally floored when I heard she's got the
> > huttspa to seek a third. If the citizens of Minneapolis are frustrated 
>with
> > her performance, then WHO pray tell is the voting majority that keeps
> > electing her?
> > JBurns
> > Cleveland
> >
> > >From: Annie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
> > >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:37:15 -0600
> > >
> > >I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer to the question about
> > >restructuring the council until it is actually tried.  HIstorically, 
>there
> > >were days when there were 26 councilmembers and other configurations 
>which
> > >I am not sure about.
> > >My issue with citywide members (for any of the Boards) is about Equity 
>and
> > >balance. I believe the weak mayor system in Minneapolis leaves the 
>Mayor
> > >out there all alone trying to balance the needs of the entire city.  
>When
> > >working within the Council member fiefdom as it operates today it is
> > >extremely difficult for the Mayor to portray and bully pulpit for the 
>large
> > >city wide vision including the wants and needs of the entire city.
> > >On both the city council and the Park Board, members generally follow 
>the
> > >wishes and position of the ward/district member and everyone else stays 
>out
> > >of the fray.  The advantage of the city wide member is that they can 
>also
> > >be part of that district/ward dialogue and weigh in with support, 
>choice of
> > >thinking and assessment of the needs in that particular district/ward.
> > >When attending National League of Cities and visting with councilpeople
> > >from all over the country... many, many, man

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[wizardmarks]

It could be that she was reelected because her opponents were not that fine,
sort of a better the devil you know situation.
WMarks, Central

j burns wrote:

> I've been viewing this list for quite some time and am puzzled by the "weak
> mayor system" reference. Has anyone considered the possibility that,
> currently, Minneapolis may indeed just have a WEAK MAYOR? One who's
> invisible until there's an election in her midst? I remember at the start of
> her first term how she swore she'd never move out of her ward. A few months
> later, it was "hello Edmund Blvd". Her supporters lamented how her "little
> tiny house just wasn't adequate". Poor thing. A lot of the citizens in this
> city don't have a choice! And that little property tax fiasco at her lake
> home? It was shrugged off, by her darling husband in the Sayles Belton
> Tribune as a simple little accounting error. Aww...
>
> I must say, after viewing the comments on this forum, that most
> Minneapolitans don't feel she's measured up. I was puzzled why she was
> elected to a second term, and equally floored when I heard she's got the
> huttspa to seek a third. If the citizens of Minneapolis are frustrated with
> her performance, then WHO pray tell is the voting majority that keeps
> electing her?
> JBurns
> Cleveland
>
> >From: Annie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
> >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:37:15 -0600
> >
> >I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer to the question about
> >restructuring the council until it is actually tried.  HIstorically, there
> >were days when there were 26 councilmembers and other configurations which
> >I am not sure about.
> >My issue with citywide members (for any of the Boards) is about Equity and
> >balance. I believe the weak mayor system in Minneapolis leaves the Mayor
> >out there all alone trying to balance the needs of the entire city.  When
> >working within the Council member fiefdom as it operates today it is
> >extremely difficult for the Mayor to portray and bully pulpit for the large
> >city wide vision including the wants and needs of the entire city.
> >On both the city council and the Park Board, members generally follow the
> >wishes and position of the ward/district member and everyone else stays out
> >of the fray.  The advantage of the city wide member is that they can also
> >be part of that district/ward dialogue and weigh in with support, choice of
> >thinking and assessment of the needs in that particular district/ward.
> >When attending National League of Cities and visting with councilpeople
> >from all over the country... many, many, many of them are elected at large.
> >IMHO it really does even the playing field in thinking about the overal
> >needs of the city.
> >Yes, it is more expensive and harder to run city-wide but it does give the
> >citizen some options in garnering support for their projects and
> >activities. And I stated earlier the at large city wide perspective helps
> >to insure equity and balance on issues for the entire city.
> >However, it doesn't sound like anyone has a grand scheme to take some
> >wording and the concept before the charter commission in the next couple of
> >months.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 09:56 AM 2/14/01 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >Having at-large Council Members will not necessarily make "your"
> >designated
> > > Those who are going to work at the job are going to work
> > >  What it really
> > >comes down to is people making the commitment to public service and not
> >just
> > > Those who are truly committed are most likely to be the
> > > Having at-large, in my opinion, will not solve any
> > > In fact, I think it's a mistake for the Park Board to have
> > >
> > >
> > > With the population of
> > >Mpls being what it is, it would seem to me the number could be reduced -
> > > In the "old" days, CMs
> > > That position didn't evolve until the late 70s,
> > > Most of the Assistants do the majority of the constituent service and
> > > The balance of the CM
> > > The whole
> > >structure needs to be re-examined.
> > >
> > >Karen Collier
> > >Linden Hills
> >Annie Young
> >Ward 6 - East Phillips in Minneapolis
> >Citywide at-large Park Board Com

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Kim Carlson]

My apologies I messed that up and once again hit the wrong button...I'm very
sorry!!

Let me continue if I can...Accountability seems to be the issue in the
discussions.  As well I've caught hold of the concern for representation
especially for those groups that don't currently have such in the face of
numerous City problems...

Representation is an issue I need to continue to think about...however,
accountability is a good question...how do we do that...?

I liked J.Burns question about why do we continue to elect people who don't
respond?  That certainly isn't a total structure problem but one of interest
and obligation on the part of the City residents.  No one on this list could
be accused of non-interest but what can we do to get others involved?  Why
do we accept and support people who are not living up to our goals of
accountability and representation.  I fear the answers to these issues are
far greater than changing the system of elections.

There has been much discussion of the "big money" in campaigns...but I look
at my neighborhood, friends and associates and can say that I doubt any of
them participate financially with local candidates.  Yet we discuss nothing
but the problems of the City and how to solve them...

The so called "big money" would be less influential if more people gave what
they can from the local arena...but it is back to how we influence and
educate others to participate?

Of more concern to me than the money involved in politics (don't mistake
that I share numerous concerns about this issue which I'll address as I get
more guts to write in) is the issue of balance.  Balance about which elected
officials we let get by with doing minimal work, yet the political power to
stay in office.  Does money impact some of that yes...but it isn't the whole
"ball of wax"...Don't we have to admit that part of the problem is simple
complacency...?  How do we change that...?

Another issue that impacts the process of balance (I think I believe this I
have to admit I struggle with this issue...) that we need to elect and
promote people of a higher caliber to run for office.  That is hard to do
for many reasons.  The negative, nasty, and personal nature of a campaign is
not very attractive.  Then hold on to your seats (here's the tough
part...)...it doesn't pay very much if you have the credentials to run a
budget the size of Minneapolis!

I know many good people who would be very interested in running for office
and can commit that they would do so for only a short period of time.  They
would do so as public service, and use this opportunity to service their
community and have this be a part of their career development or concluding
career "pay-back".  But how do they afford to do so..?

I know the public has great disgust for that attitude but it is at least a
discussion for review...

It has certainly been my experience to a large extent (but only one person)
that non-responsiveness is due to burn-out.  Elected officials don't leave
office too frequently because they don't know where they go next and have
the same job benefits and pay.  This is the best they'll have in their
minds...we could all name examples from the past whereby we know that this
is true...

But we continue to elect them!  And we do because no one will run...

This is an exciting election year.  But the only one in many many
years...Understand that I do not yet support anyone in any race...however I
truly look forward to the debate...!  Let's all try to get our neighbors and
friends and even associates involved...not only to vote but to work for the
candidates they choose and to contribute even a small amount of money...the
system needs it and until that changes let's not pretend it doesn't
matter...convince your neighbors...

Because I'm a little nervous doing for the first time I hope to be more
articulate in the future...I appreciate your patience and I truly look
forward to continued discussions on this issue.  The list has many
insightful and interesting opinions...Thanks for letting me be a part!!

I'm Learning a lot from YOU!!
Kim Carlson
Bottineau

-Original Message-
From: Kim Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: j burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Annie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers


>Good Morning...Let me introduce myself to list participants because I've
>never written before.  My name is Kim Carlson, I live in Bottineau in
>glorious Northeast!  I work as a consultant and sometimes lobbyist, I've
>been very active in every neighborhood I've lived in Minneapolis and I at
>o

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Kim Carlson]

Good Morning...Let me introduce myself to list participants because I've
never written before.  My name is Kim Carlson, I live in Bottineau in
glorious Northeast!  I work as a consultant and sometimes lobbyist, I've
been very active in every neighborhood I've lived in Minneapolis and I at
one time worked as an aide to a Minneapolis City Council Member.  In
addition I've worked for a Senator in Washington, and volunteered to do
non-paid, non-formal work at the State Legislature.  I used to be (long ago)
very active in party politics but have not done so for years...

I find the discussion regarding the Council and appropriate responsiveness
very compelling.  However, I 'll admit readily I'm no expert but can bring a
little different
-Original Message-
From: j burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers


>I've been viewing this list for quite some time and am puzzled by the "weak
>mayor system" reference. Has anyone considered the possibility that,
>currently, Minneapolis may indeed just have a WEAK MAYOR? One who's
>invisible until there's an election in her midst? I remember at the start
of
>her first term how she swore she'd never move out of her ward. A few months
>later, it was "hello Edmund Blvd". Her supporters lamented how her "little
>tiny house just wasn't adequate". Poor thing. A lot of the citizens in this
>city don't have a choice! And that little property tax fiasco at her lake
>home? It was shrugged off, by her darling husband in the Sayles Belton
>Tribune as a simple little accounting error. Aww...
>
>I must say, after viewing the comments on this forum, that most
>Minneapolitans don't feel she's measured up. I was puzzled why she was
>elected to a second term, and equally floored when I heard she's got the
>huttspa to seek a third. If the citizens of Minneapolis are frustrated with
>her performance, then WHO pray tell is the voting majority that keeps
>electing her?
>JBurns
>Cleveland
>
>
>>From: Annie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
>>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:37:15 -0600
>>
>>I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer to the question about
>>restructuring the council until it is actually tried.  HIstorically, there
>>were days when there were 26 councilmembers and other configurations which
>>I am not sure about.
>>My issue with citywide members (for any of the Boards) is about Equity and
>>balance. I believe the weak mayor system in Minneapolis leaves the Mayor
>>out there all alone trying to balance the needs of the entire city.  When
>>working within the Council member fiefdom as it operates today it is
>>extremely difficult for the Mayor to portray and bully pulpit for the
large
>>city wide vision including the wants and needs of the entire city.
>>On both the city council and the Park Board, members generally follow the
>>wishes and position of the ward/district member and everyone else stays
out
>>of the fray.  The advantage of the city wide member is that they can also
>>be part of that district/ward dialogue and weigh in with support, choice
of
>>thinking and assessment of the needs in that particular district/ward.
>>When attending National League of Cities and visting with councilpeople
>>from all over the country... many, many, many of them are elected at
large.
>>IMHO it really does even the playing field in thinking about the overal
>>needs of the city.
>>Yes, it is more expensive and harder to run city-wide but it does give the
>>citizen some options in garnering support for their projects and
>>activities. And I stated earlier the at large city wide perspective helps
>>to insure equity and balance on issues for the entire city.
>>However, it doesn't sound like anyone has a grand scheme to take some
>>wording and the concept before the charter commission in the next couple
of
>>months.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 09:56 AM 2/14/01 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >Having at-large Council Members will not necessarily make "your"
>>designated
>> > Those who are going to work at the job are going to work
>> >  What it really
>> >comes down to is people making the com

FW: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Richardson, Linda M]

Having never met Ms Becker or worked with her I cannot comment on where she
gets her information as to the level of difficulty of questions I or my
associates can answer.  Basically, the telephone rings and we answer it.
Maybe the caller is concerned about snow plowing.  Maybe the caller wants
information on a boarded building.  Maybe the caller wants to set up a
meeting.  Maybe the caller wants to voice an opinion.  Maybe the caller is
looking for a low interest rate loan.  Maybe the caller lives down the
street from a drug house.  I could go on and on but I think you can see
where I'm going with this...

The point is, we never know what issues we're going to be dealing with from
moment to moment.  We're not elected, or appointed -- we're civil servants.
If there is anyone in the council offices paid to truly serve the public
without political affiliation, it's the associates, or as you may know them,
the secretaries.

I appreciate Ms Becker's attempts to justify why a councilmember is
unresponsive, but caution her not to make me or my associates part of the
equation.

Linda Richardson
Council Office Associate, Ward 1

> -Original Message-
> From: Carol Becker [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 8:34 PM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
> 
> Many of the people, when you ask them what their major concern is about
> their council members, say that they called their council members and did
> not get a phone call returned.  
>  
> Now each ward has about 30,000 people in it.  In most places in Minnesota,
> this is a pretty good sized city. In each council office, there are three
> people to return phone calls to all these people, a secretary, who
> generally answers only the very easy questions, and the Council Member and
> the Council Member's aid.  In many wards, it simply isn't possible to
> return all the phone calls that the ward gets in a day.  
>  
> In addition, many people complain that they don't see their Council
> Members at neighborhood events.  On the other side, Council Members are
> often double or triple booked trying to make it to as many events as
> possible.  
>  
> Increasing the number of wards would significantly improve constituent
> services.  
>  
> Carol Becker
> Longfellow
>  
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[j burns]

I've been viewing this list for quite some time and am puzzled by the "weak 
mayor system" reference. Has anyone considered the possibility that, 
currently, Minneapolis may indeed just have a WEAK MAYOR? One who's 
invisible until there's an election in her midst? I remember at the start of 
her first term how she swore she'd never move out of her ward. A few months 
later, it was "hello Edmund Blvd". Her supporters lamented how her "little 
tiny house just wasn't adequate". Poor thing. A lot of the citizens in this 
city don't have a choice! And that little property tax fiasco at her lake 
home? It was shrugged off, by her darling husband in the Sayles Belton 
Tribune as a simple little accounting error. Aww...

I must say, after viewing the comments on this forum, that most 
Minneapolitans don't feel she's measured up. I was puzzled why she was 
elected to a second term, and equally floored when I heard she's got the 
huttspa to seek a third. If the citizens of Minneapolis are frustrated with 
her performance, then WHO pray tell is the voting majority that keeps 
electing her?
JBurns
Cleveland


>From: Annie Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers
>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:37:15 -0600
>
>I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer to the question about
>restructuring the council until it is actually tried.  HIstorically, there
>were days when there were 26 councilmembers and other configurations which
>I am not sure about.
>My issue with citywide members (for any of the Boards) is about Equity and
>balance. I believe the weak mayor system in Minneapolis leaves the Mayor
>out there all alone trying to balance the needs of the entire city.  When
>working within the Council member fiefdom as it operates today it is
>extremely difficult for the Mayor to portray and bully pulpit for the large
>city wide vision including the wants and needs of the entire city.
>On both the city council and the Park Board, members generally follow the
>wishes and position of the ward/district member and everyone else stays out
>of the fray.  The advantage of the city wide member is that they can also
>be part of that district/ward dialogue and weigh in with support, choice of
>thinking and assessment of the needs in that particular district/ward.
>When attending National League of Cities and visting with councilpeople
>from all over the country... many, many, many of them are elected at large.
>IMHO it really does even the playing field in thinking about the overal
>needs of the city.
>Yes, it is more expensive and harder to run city-wide but it does give the
>citizen some options in garnering support for their projects and
>activities. And I stated earlier the at large city wide perspective helps
>to insure equity and balance on issues for the entire city.
>However, it doesn't sound like anyone has a grand scheme to take some
>wording and the concept before the charter commission in the next couple of
>months.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 09:56 AM 2/14/01 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Having at-large Council Members will not necessarily make "your" 
>designated
> > Those who are going to work at the job are going to work
> >  What it really
> >comes down to is people making the commitment to public service and not
>just
> > Those who are truly committed are most likely to be the
> > Having at-large, in my opinion, will not solve any
> > In fact, I think it's a mistake for the Park Board to have
> >
> >
> > With the population of
> >Mpls being what it is, it would seem to me the number could be reduced -
> > In the "old" days, CMs
> > That position didn't evolve until the late 70s,
> > Most of the Assistants do the majority of the constituent service and
> > The balance of the CM
> > The whole
> >structure needs to be re-examined.
> >
> >Karen Collier
> >Linden Hills
>Annie Young
>Ward 6 - East Phillips in Minneapolis
>Citywide at-large Park Board Commissioner
>Working to build a sustainable community
>___
>Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
>Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
>http://e-democracy.org/mpls

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Ken & Karla]

Rich McMartin wrote, in part:
>
>Instant Runoff Voting: I sort of like the idea but I fear the Florida
>butterfly ballot effect.
=
[KB]  Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) and punch card voting are two different
kinds of things.

IRV is used to vote for an office where there can be only one winner (e.g.,
mayor or a ward council member).  In an IRV election the voter ranks the
candidates (1 for first choice, 2 for second choice, and so on).  This
contrasts with what we do now, i.e., vote for one candidate for an office.
The voting (and the kind of result) is what differentiates the election
systems.

The kind of ballot can run the gamut from writing the numbers on a paper
ballot, filling in dots or connecting arrows for optical scanners, pressing
spots on a touch screen, ... or punching out holes on a punch card.  The
technology is what differs.  (I understand Canada still uses paper ballots
and produces a well-accepted, accurate, hand-counted result within a day of
its national elections.)


In another post, Jon Kelland wrote, in part:
>
> The problem with a proportional representation only system would be the
dominance of parties, and the decline of independent or maverick candidates,
which I see as a serious and debilitating problem.  (As far as I know PR
does not work outside of a party schemata).
=
[KB]  Proportional Representation (PR) elections are often party-based.
However, they don't have to be.  Cambridge MA has elected its city council
and school board since about 1941 using a nonpartisan PR system of voting
that is similar to IRV.  The voter ranks as many candidates as s/he chooses
to on a citywide ballot (1, 2, 3, 4, ...).

Minneapolis, rather larger than Cambridge, has a lot of options to design
our PR elections to improve our representation while maintaining efficiency
in both voting and ballot counting.


For more information on IRV and Proportional Representation, check out the
web sites that Cam Gordon cited:  http://www.fairvote.org and
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/polit/damy/prlib.htm .  As another founding
and current Board member of FairVote Minnesota, I'd also invite citizens
interested in alternative and fairer voting systems to get in touch with me
for more information.

  --Ken Bearman
South Minneapolis, 11-1, HC 3, SD 60

P.S.--FairVote Minnesota is a 501(c)(3) educational organization.



___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Carol Becker]

Many of the people, when you ask them what their 
major concern is about their council members, say that they called their council 
members and did not get a phone call returned.  
 
Now each ward has about 30,000 people in it.  
In most places in Minnesota, this is a pretty good sized city. In each 
council office, there are three people to return phone calls to all these 
people, a secretary, who generally answers only the very easy questions, and the 
Council Member and the Council Member's aid.  In many wards, it simply 
isn't possible to return all the phone calls that the ward gets in a day.  

 
In addition, many people complain that they don't 
see their Council Members at neighborhood events.  On the other side, 
Council Members are often double or triple booked trying to make it to as many 
events as possible.  
 
Increasing the number of wards would significantly 
improve constituent services.  
 
Carol Becker
Longfellow
 

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Annie Young]

I am not sure there is a right or wrong answer to the question about
restructuring the council until it is actually tried.  HIstorically, there
were days when there were 26 councilmembers and other configurations which
I am not sure about.
My issue with citywide members (for any of the Boards) is about Equity and
balance. I believe the weak mayor system in Minneapolis leaves the Mayor
out there all alone trying to balance the needs of the entire city.  When
working within the Council member fiefdom as it operates today it is
extremely difficult for the Mayor to portray and bully pulpit for the large
city wide vision including the wants and needs of the entire city.
On both the city council and the Park Board, members generally follow the
wishes and position of the ward/district member and everyone else stays out
of the fray.  The advantage of the city wide member is that they can also
be part of that district/ward dialogue and weigh in with support, choice of
thinking and assessment of the needs in that particular district/ward.
When attending National League of Cities and visting with councilpeople
from all over the country... many, many, many of them are elected at large.
IMHO it really does even the playing field in thinking about the overal
needs of the city.
Yes, it is more expensive and harder to run city-wide but it does give the
citizen some options in garnering support for their projects and
activities. And I stated earlier the at large city wide perspective helps
to insure equity and balance on issues for the entire city.
However, it doesn't sound like anyone has a grand scheme to take some
wording and the concept before the charter commission in the next couple of
months.
 








At 09:56 AM 2/14/01 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Having at-large Council Members will not necessarily make "your" designated  
> Those who are going to work at the job are going to work  
>  What it really  
>comes down to is people making the commitment to public service and not
just  
> Those who are truly committed are most likely to be the  
> Having at-large, in my opinion, will not solve any  
> In fact, I think it's a mistake for the Park Board to have  
>  
> 
> With the population of  
>Mpls being what it is, it would seem to me the number could be reduced -  
> In the "old" days, CMs  
> That position didn't evolve until the late 70s,  
> Most of the Assistants do the majority of the constituent service and  
> The balance of the CM  
> The whole  
>structure needs to be re-examined. 
> 
>Karen Collier 
>Linden Hills 
Annie Young
Ward 6 - East Phillips in Minneapolis
Citywide at-large Park Board Commissioner
Working to build a sustainable community
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Rich McMartin]

> At-large council members could provide some recourse when the ward council
> member is unresponsive.  Yes I know that the proper thing to do with an
> unresponsive council member is to wait until the next election and then
> vote for someone else, but that doesn't address the problem while it is
> occurring.  What happens now is that certain council members act like
> at-large representatives of certain populations.  So when my council
member <...snip...>

W back in the 60's and 70's at large representation was another
way of preventing minority populations from having representation. Why
would we be any different?

As to having a minority at large representative: How do we determine which
minorities get the representative(s)? Who decides what a minority group is
that should be represented in this way? What about religious group at
large representatives?  Down that route lies much litigation...

Instant Runoff Voting: I sort of like the idea but I fear the Florida
butterfly ballot effect.

Rich McMartin
Bryant Neighborhood.

___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[KarenCollier]

Having at-large Council Members will not necessarily make "your" designated 
CM more responsive.  Those who are going to work at the job are going to work 
at the job.  Those who are going to "dog it" will dog it.  What it really 
comes down to is people making the commitment to public service and not just 
to "another job."  Those who are truly committed are most likely to be the 
most responsive.  Having at-large, in my opinion, will not solve any 
problems.  In fact, I think it's a mistake for the Park Board to have 
at-large.  

At the same time, I think that 13 CMs are too many.  With the population of 
Mpls being what it is, it would seem to me the number could be reduced - 
probably to nine - and still make the CMs efficient.  In the "old" days, CMs 
didn't even have Assistants.  That position didn't evolve until the late 70s, 
or so.  Most of the Assistants do the majority of the constituent service and 
the CM only becomes involved in controversial matters.  The balance of the CM 
time is spent doing "the city business" whatever that might be.  The whole 
structure needs to be re-examined.

Karen Collier
Linden Hills

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Cameron A. Gordon]

I agree that some at-large council members might make sense if they were 
electioned proportionally.  I do not think that Instant Runoff Voting (also 
known as majority preference voting) would actually accomplish this, however. 
Instant Runnoff Voting is most udeful when there is a single member distict or 
ward.  It would actually be useful for all the ward elections now, as well as 
the mayoral election and most of the park & rec board election. I am convinced 
that it would result in healthier, more positive and issue oriented campaigns. 

If we were to create some at large seats (as I advocated some years back) they 
should definitely be elected using a proportional system.  The model I was 
advocating in '99 would have resulted in 6 wards set up to match the park & rec.
districts and 7 at large seats elected proportionally based on the percentage of
votes a party received.  

The two most likely options to elect the at large members proportionally would 
be through a single transferable voting system (as used in Cambridge Mass.) 
where voters do rank candidates as they do with Instant Runoff Voting or by 
using some kind of party (or other group) list.  There are a number of good, and
tested, methods for elected representatives from multi-member districts which 
ensoure both majority rule and minority representation.  

I would also encourage folks (as a founding member of Fairvote Minnesota) to 
check out Russell's resources as well as these  PR Library: 
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/polit/damy/prlib.htm, and The Center for Voting & 
Democracy at http://www.fairvote.org


If the city-wide members were elected in any way besides proportional 
repsentation I would be very reluctant to support and likely to work against it.










Cam Gordon
Candidate for City Council, 
Ward 2
 - - Cedar Riverside/Westbank, Como, Dinkytown, Marcy Holms, 
 Motley/Stadium Village, Propsect Park, University of Mn, Seward 


914 Franklin Terrace
Mpls. MN 55406-1101
(612) 332-6210


___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Ken & Karla]

Annie Young wrote:


>Does anyone remember this conversation from a few months back? Is anyone
>developing a resolution that changes the number of wards and adds 3-5
>at-large seats. Although some may want to slim the number from 13 to 9 I am
>not convinced that is as good an idea as 9 wards and 4 at-large which still
>equals 13 and keeps us from having to pay for any further remodeling of the
>offices.
=
[KB]  Any resolution to change the size or composition of the Minneapolis
Council also should include language to improve its election by changing to
a Proportional Representation election.  Wards and at-large seats with the
same kind of winner-take-all elections just shuffles the same deck ... so
what would citizens gain?

  --Ken Bearman
Minneapolis, 11-1, HC 3, SD 60

___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

RE: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Russell Wayne Peterson]

Ann 
Berget asked that I write something up on Instant Runoff Voting and forward it 
to the list.  But, better than that you can link to the following for the 
best information:
 
Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) from the Center for Voting 
& Democracy at:

http://www.igc.org/cvd/irv/index.html
 
 
The 
local group working to reform voting through IRV and Proportional Representation 
is FairVote Minnesota at:
http://www2.bitstream.net/~gabeo/fvhome.html
 
 
The 
home page for the Center for Voting & Democracy for other voting systems 
information:
http://www.igc.org/cvd/
 
 
Russ 
Peterson
Ward 
9
Standish

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[wizardmarks]

One of the many things that the city council is lacking, is
having all the community voices at the table.  I'd be
willing to support a change if the at-large members had to
be elected from the various minority groups.  Other than
that, I don't see the point of enlarging the number of
council members.
WMarks, Central

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I don't know of anyone actively advocating a change in the
> # of
> councilmembers right now - except for an occasional
> suggestion to eliminate
> ALL of them . But I'd like to hear a lively debate
> on the subject of
> having some at-large council seats.
>
> Ann Berget
> KingField 10-10



___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Rosalind Nelson]

At-large council members could provide some recourse when the ward council
member is unresponsive.  Yes I know that the proper thing to do with an
unresponsive council member is to wait until the next election and then
vote for someone else, but that doesn't address the problem while it is
occurring.  What happens now is that certain council members act like
at-large representatives of certain populations.  So when my council member
ignores me, I bug someone elses council member, who in turn neglects some
of his or her own constituents in order to respond to me.

Yes, we do have a mayor.  Maybe at-large council members wouldn't be any
more repsonsive than the mayor.  But not necessarily.  Presumably, they
wouldn't have as much of an administrative function, and they wouldn't have
as many people working for them.  They would be much less buffered from
actual contintuents than the mayor is.  

Rosalind Nelson
Bancroft

At 09:20 PM 2/13/01 -0600, Richard McMartin wrote:
>
>We already have one "at large" councilor: a.k.a: mayor.  That is quite
>enough at large councilors.  At large elected officials at this level
>just gives the majority party more power.  Not that it would make much
>difference right now with the current council makeup - but it could at
>some time in ways that you might not like.


___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

RE: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Russell Wayne Peterson]

I'd like to understand the motivation behind at large council members.  If
it is to give a voice to those who don't, then we should seriously be
considering Instant Runoff Voting.  This would create more positive
campaigns, give minority groups a better chance at proportional
representation, and have true majority rule by eliminating plurality.  This
seems like the first best step to reforming our election system.  And if the
parties were smart, they'd implement it as part of their endorsement
process.  It would shorten the time frame and make the conventions more
liveable.

Russ Peterson
Ward 9
Standish

___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Richard McMartin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> I don't know of anyone actively advocating a change in the # of
> councilmembers right now - except for an occasional suggestion to
> eliminate
> ALL of them . But I'd like to hear a lively debate on the
> subject of
> having some at-large council seats.

We already have one "at large" councilor: a.k.a: mayor.  That is quite
enough at large councilors.  At large elected officials at this level
just gives the majority party more power.  Not that it would make much
difference right now with the current council makeup - but it could at
some time in ways that you might not like.

-- 
Rich McMartin
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://tcfreenet.org/people/mcmartin/
Bryant Neighborhood of Minneapolis
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls

Re: [Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[ABerget]

I don't know of anyone actively advocating a change in the # of 
councilmembers right now - except for an occasional suggestion to eliminate 
ALL of them . But I'd like to hear a lively debate on the subject of 
having some at-large council seats. 

Ann Berget
KingField 10-10

[Mpls] Number of councilmembers

[Annie Young]

Does anyone remember this conversation from a few months back? Is anyone
developing a resolution that changes the number of wards and adds 3-5
at-large seats. Although some may want to slim the number from 13 to 9 I am
not convinced that is as good an idea as 9 wards and 4 at-large which still
equals 13 and keeps us from having to pay for any further remodeling of the
offices. 

Annie Young
Ward 6 - East Phillips in Minneapolis
Citywide at-large Park Board Commissioner
Working to build a sustainable community
___
Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy
Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more:
http://e-democracy.org/mpls