Re: Opening multipart/related (was: HTML email?)

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 06:28:13PM +0200, Andy Spiegl wrote:
Do you know a way how to open the whole multipart/related and send it 
to a browser?


Christian Ebert has a utility, viewhtmlmsg, that may work for you.  (I 
haven't tried it myself, though).


.  See the 
contrib/example-muttrc for invocation.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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Opening multipart/related (was: HTML email?)

[Andy Spiegl]

We had this discussion about text/html attachments recently.

Now, I was wondering how to deal with "multipart/related"
I get emails like this:

  I 1  [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 1.0M]
  I 2 ├─>  [text/plain, quoted, utf-8, 29K]
  I 3 └─> [multipa/related, 7bit, 973K]
  I 4   ├─>[text/html, quoted, utf-8, 137K]
  I 5   ├─>spacer_1x10.gif[image/gif, base64, 0.1K]
  I 6   ├─>spacer_24x1.gif[image/gif, base64, 0.1K]
  I 7   ├─>newsletterheader.png[image/png, base64, 30K]
  

(The text/plain part is useless as usual)

Using mailcap I can open the HTML part in the viewer or in a graphical
browser but the attached pictures are missing.

Do you know a way how to open the whole multipart/related and send it to a 
browser?

Thank you,
 Andy

-- 
 Statistics: The only science that enables different experts using the same 
figures
 to draw different conclusions.  (Evan Esar)

Re: HTML email?

[Andy Spiegl]

> > That's because all my groups are computed from my address db.
> Same here.  I guess I have to update my script which does that.
Done :-)

Now I'm wondering what cool things I can do with it.
Index coloring, limiting, searching sounds easy but not really necessary
since I'm sorting my mails into person or group related mailboxes anyway.

Any cool ideas out there?  ;-)

Thanks,
 Andy

-- 
 Life is a bridge.  Cross over it but build no house on it.  (Indian Proverb)

Re: HTML email?

[Andy Spiegl]

> However, the manual's misleading:
We agree on that. :-)

> > - Can I group mutt aliases with -addr or just addresses?
> Not sure what you mean here.
Sorry, I meant: does "-addr" also match alias names?  I guess not.

> That's because all my groups are computed from my address db.
Same here.  I guess I have to update my script which does that.

> But note this in the PATTERNS section:
...
> So your regexps above need backslash doubling. Or maybe quoting :-)
Good point!  Thanks.

Good night
 Andy

-- 
 Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has
 involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.  (Thomas Sowell)

Re: HTML email?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 09Apr2021 22:41, Andy Spiegl  wrote:
>> So in fact I choose the alternative order per message:
>Great idea!  And thanks for pointing out the "group" command which was
>completely unknown to me so far.  Unfortunately I'm missing some good
>examples in the manual in order to completely understand its possibilites.
>
>Questions like
> - Do I have to repeat the -rx before every pattern?

No.

However, the manual's misleading:

4. Address Groups
Usage: group [ -group name ...] { -rx expr ... | -addr expr ... }

I'd read that as: "-rx expr ..." is one of the 2 group definition 
alternatives.  It looks like a group is either a set of addresses or a 
set of regexps.

However, the following text description then falsifies the implication:

The group command is used to directly add either addresses or
regular expressions to the specified group or groups. The
different categories of arguments to the group command can be
in any order.  The flags -rx and -addr specify what the following
strings (that cannot begin with a hyphen) should be interpreted
as: either a regular expression or an email address, respectively.

That says to me you can do this:

group -group group1 -group group2 -rx regexp1 regexp2 -addr addr1 addr2 -rx 
regexp3

which appends 5 definitions to "group1" and "group2". Or, on reflection, 
maybe:

group -group group1 group2 -rx regexp1 regexp2 -addr addr1 addr2 -rx regexp3

On that basis I'd have written the syntax like this:

Usage: group [ -group name ]... { -rx expr... | -addr expr... }...

Note the repetition bound to each optional thing: multiple "-group name"

But the above is somewhat conjecture - we need to read the source, alas.

> - Can I group mutt aliases with -addr or just addresses?

Not sure what you mean here.

I have no -rx groups, but _all_ my mutt alias definitions take the form:

alias -group 37signals 37signals \
37signals Billing , \
Jason Fried - 37signals Newsletter 

which defines _both_ an alias _and_ an address based group (which have 
the same name, hence the double "37signals" above - you can name these 
differently).

That's because all my groups are computed from my address db.

> - What is a good way to check/verify whether my group definition works?
>E.g. I defined the group "me":
> group -group me -rx me\..* -rx .*\.spiegl.*@ -rx .*\.andy.*@

Maybe write some index colouring rules based on the group membership?  
That seems the simplest way to test this stuff to me.

I think I'm going to have to write myself a macro to "reload all my 
settings" - I've had to muck around in the past trying stuff like this, 
and leaving/entering mutt every time I make a change is tedious.

>Hoping that it would also pick up all "me." aliases like: me.company1, 
>me.company2, ...

Looks like it should. But the regexps may need to match the whole 
address part, maybe you need:

spiegl\..*@.*

Or maybe not, if they're applied to the "whole address" eg "Andy Spiegl 
".

I confess I'm just guessing here.

But note this in the PATTERNS section:

Special attention has to be paid when using regular expressions 
inside of patterns. Specifically, Mutt's parser for these patterns 
will strip one level of backslash (“\”), which is normally used for 
quoting. If it is your intention to use a backslash in the regular 
expression, you will need to use two backslashes instead (“\\”).

So your regexps above need backslash doubling. Or maybe quoting :-)

>Do you happen to know where to find more about it? (my last resort 
>would be the source code)

The source, alas.

I don't use regexps for address matching (if I can help it); they're a 
lousy tool for matching addresses.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Re: HTML email?

[Andy Spiegl]

Cameron:

> However, there are plenty of platforms which are HTML first and provide 
> either very poor plaintext equivalents of empty ones, or ever just stuff 
> the raw HTML into both parts.
Yes, exactly!  What a PITA.  I gave up explaining the issue to the senders
because most of them simply don't understand the problem.

> So in fact I choose the alternative order per message:
Great idea!  And thanks for pointing out the "group" command which was
completely unknown to me so far.  Unfortunately I'm missing some good
examples in the manual in order to completely understand its possibilites.

Questions like
 - Do I have to repeat the -rx before every pattern?
 - Can I group mutt aliases with -addr or just addresses?
 - What is a good way to check/verify whether my group definition works?

E.g. I defined the group "me":
 group -group me -rx me\..* -rx .*\.spiegl.*@ -rx .*\.andy.*@
Hoping that it would also pick up all "me." aliases like: me.company1, 
me.company2, ...

Do you happen to know where to find more about it? (my last resort would be the 
source code)

Thanks,
 Andy

-- 
 Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves
 up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
   (Sir Winston Churchill)

Re: HTML email?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 07Apr2021 07:22, John Niendorf  wrote:
>How do you all deal with HTML email?

Composing HTML is a can of worms. I'd need to dig into the list archives 
- it has been discussed.

Displaying HTML uses 2 main settings:

The .mailcap entry for text/html with the "copiousoutput" flag. For 
example:

text/html; exec 2>&1 && env DISPLAY= unhtml %s; copiousoutput

"unhtml" is a personal script which invokes whatever I prefer to use to 
transcribe HTML as plain text. Currently it invokes:

lynx -stdin -dump

That way I don't have to hack my mailcap much, better to hack the script 
if I shift tools, eg to w3m.

The other setting is the alternative_order setting, which says which 
Content-Type to prefer of a multipart/alternative message. These usually 
have a text/plain and text/html part (though of course they course have 
other things, eg a text/markdown part). My default setting is:

alternative_order text/plain text/html

which prefers the plain text version, sidestepping the HTML altogether.

However, there are plenty of platforms which are HTML first and provide 
either very poor plaintext equivalents of empty ones, or ever just stuff 
the raw HTML into both parts. Absolutely rubbish quality of 
implementation, but there you go.

So in fact I choose the alternative order per message:

# alternative-order criteria
message-hook . 'unalternative_order *; alternative_order text/plain 
text/html'

message-hook '~h "X-Mailer: Apple Mail" ~X 1-' 'unalternative_order *; 
alternative_order text/html multipart/mixed text/plain'

message-hook '%f htmlers | ~f @no-re...@cc.yahoo-inc.com | ~f @outlook.com 
| ~f live.com | ~f @facebookmail.com' 'unalternative_order *; alternative_order 
text/html text/plain'

So far all messages I set up the default. Then for Apple Mail I put the 
HTML first because of the way Apple Mail packs attachments, which is 
weird. Then for an elite set of negligent idiots I put HTML first 
because I _know_ that they shift a plaintext version and the plaintext 
is always rubbish.

That last criterion is email from outlook.com, live.com, facebook.com, 
yahoo's PR/info people, and whomever I have explicitly added to my mutt 
"htmlers" group.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Re: HTML email?

[Dan Ciprus (dciprus)]

And I will open a can with worms: 

"deal" in what sense ? Just reading the html email or are you talking about 
replying to the HTML email with HTML email or maybe you're talking about keeping 
HTML replies intact and replying with plain txt ? There are several use cases 
which have workarounds all over the place. This mailing list has listed several 
of them in the past but unfortunately they're all just a workarounds not a real 
solutions to this multimedia nonsense which was brought to email world. 

Apologies for not replying with any suggestions, the only suggestion I have: 
look up the archive of this mailing list and you'll find plenty of ideas related 
to your question. 


Dan

On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 07:22:51AM -0600, John Niendorf wrote:

Hi Folks,

How do you all deal with HTML email?

Thank you,

John


--
Daniel Ciprus  .:|:.:|:.
CONSULTING ENGINEER.CUSTOMER DELIVERY   Cisco Systems Inc.
dcip...@cisco.com
tel: +1-703-484-0205
mob: +1-540-223-7098



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Re: HTML email?

[Rene Kita]

On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 07:22:51AM -0600, John Niendorf wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> How do you all deal with HTML email?
I delete them.

Re: HTML email?

[lilydjwg]

On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 08:00:38AM -0600, John Niendorf wrote:
> Thank you - where do you put the python3 script and how do you let mutt know 
> it is there?

Put it somewhere in $PATH, or you can use an absolution path.

-- 
Best regards,
lilydjwg

Re: HTML email?

[John Niendorf]

Thank you - where do you put the python3 script and how do you let mutt know it 
is there?

HTML email?

[John Niendorf]

Hi Folks,

How do you all deal with HTML email?

Thank you,

John

Re: HTML email?

[User Ribbon]

On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 07:22:51AM -0600, John Niendorf wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> How do you all deal with HTML email?

My .muttrc is



set mailcap_path= ~/.mutt/mailcap
auto_view text/html



~/.mutt/mailcap is

text/html; w3m -I %{charset} -T text/html; copiousoutput;

Re: HTML email?

[Francesco Ariis]

Hello John,

Il 07 aprile 2021 alle 07:22 John Niendorf ha scritto:
> How do you all deal with HTML email?

This in mailcap

text/html; w3m -I %{charset} -T text/html; copiousoutput

and then  in mutt itself
—F

Re: HTML email?

[lilydjwg]

On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 07:22:51AM -0600, John Niendorf wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> How do you all deal with HTML email?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> John

I view it in mutt with elinks -force-html -dump -dump-color-mode 1. If
that doesn't work well, I open it in my browser with a script
viewhtmlmsg[1] using a custom keybinding:

macro pager \eh "viewhtmlmsg --fork -w 10" "View in 
webbrowser"

I don't write HTML mails.

[1]: https://github.com/lilydjwg/viewhtmlmsg

-- 
Best regards,
lilydjwg

Re: Truncated link in html email

[Sam Kuper]

On Mon, Feb 08, 2021 at 07:23:16PM -0600, boB Stepp wrote:
> On 21/02/08 07:04PM, boB Stepp wrote:
>> Just now I came across one of those html emails that Mutt + urlview
>> does not seem to be able to handle.  This was an email from the
>> clinic I go to that has embedded a "CLICK TO CHECK-IN" button.  Upon
>> opening it in Mutt, hitting "v" to view attachments, hitting 
>> to view it with w3m and finally Ctrl-B to bring up urlview of the
>> links I found that the button's link was truncated.  What would cause
>> this and how might I remedy the situation for the future?

This sounds like a bug in urlview (or possibly w3m).  Probably best to
try to isolate the problem (figure out, for problem URLs, what they have
in common; and determine exactly which piece of software is failing to
parse them) and report it to the relevant bug-tracker.

-- 
A: When it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: When is top-posting a bad thing?

()  ASCII ribbon campaign. Please avoid HTML emails & proprietary
/\  file formats. (Why? See e.g. https://v.gd/jrmGbS ). Thank you.

Truncated link in html email

[boB Stepp]

This was rejected from the Mutt server the first time.  Am resending...

On 21/02/08 07:04PM, boB Stepp wrote:

Just now I came across one of those html emails that Mutt + urlview does
not seem to be able to handle.  This was an email from the clinic I go to
that has embedded a "CLICK TO CHECK-IN" button.  Upon opening it in Mutt,
hitting "v" to view attachments, hitting  to view it with w3m and
finally Ctrl-B to bring up urlview of the links I found that the button's
link was truncated.  What would cause this and how might I remedy the
situation for the future?

TIA!

--
Wishing you only the best,

boB Stepp

Re: display html email in browser?

[Michael Tatge]

* On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 12:09PM -0400 Peter P. (peterpar...@fastmail.com) 
muttered:
 Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
 window?

There used to be a page about that in the mutt wiki (wiki.mutt.org)
though I cannot find it right now.

In short:

~/.muttrc
# i prefere text/plain thank you (show text part of multipart messages
# rather then html
alternative_order text/enriched text/plain text/html

# this is needed for the autoview part in mailcap
auto_view text/html

~/.mailcap
# used when (v)iewing (use any browser you like)
# text/html; w3m -v -F -T text/html '%s'; nametemplate=%s.html
# text/html; /usr/bin/opera -newpage '%s'; test=test $DISPLAY != 
# text/html; /usr/bin/firefox -new-tab '%s'; test=test $DISPLAY != 
text/html; links2 -codepage utf8 '%s'; nametemplate=%s.html; needsterminal

# for autoview
text/html; lynx -stdin -dump -force_html ; copiousoutput; needsterminal

HTH,

Michael
-- 
PGP-Key-ID: EEE7D043
Jabber: in...@jabber.de

Re: display html email in browser?

[Peter P.]

* Michael Tatge tatg...@gmail.com [2015-04-29 03:32]:
 * On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 12:09PM -0400 Peter P. (peterpar...@fastmail.com) 
 muttered:
  Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
  window?
 
 There used to be a page about that in the mutt wiki (wiki.mutt.org)
 though I cannot find it right now.
 
 In short:
 
 ~/.muttrc
 # i prefere text/plain thank you (show text part of multipart messages
 # rather then html
 alternative_order text/enriched text/plain text/html
 
 # this is needed for the autoview part in mailcap
 auto_view text/html
 
 ~/.mailcap
 # used when (v)iewing (use any browser you like)
 # text/html; w3m -v -F -T text/html '%s'; nametemplate=%s.html
 # text/html; /usr/bin/opera -newpage '%s'; test=test $DISPLAY != 
 # text/html; /usr/bin/firefox -new-tab '%s'; test=test $DISPLAY != 
 text/html; links2 -codepage utf8 '%s'; nametemplate=%s.html; needsterminal
 
 # for autoview
 text/html; lynx -stdin -dump -force_html ; copiousoutput; needsterminal
 
 HTH,
 
 Michael

Thanks to all of you for posting your suggestions! It will take me a few
days to catch up on your examples, which I am very eager to try out!

regards, 
P

Re: display html email in browser?

[Francesco Ariis]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:09:34PM -0400, Peter P. wrote:
 Dear fellow mutt users,
 
 Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
 window?

Hello Peter,
once opened the message, press 'v' (view-attachments) and then
select the .html one and press enter, that should auto-invoke
x-www-browser.

Re: display html email in browser?

[Peter P.]

* Francesco Ariis fa...@ariis.it [2015-04-28 12:47]:
 On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:09:34PM -0400, Peter P. wrote:
  Dear fellow mutt users,
  
  Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
  window?
 
 Hello Peter,
 once opened the message, press 'v' (view-attachments) and then
 select the .html one and press enter, that should auto-invoke
 x-www-browser.
Thanks Francesco,
That way the message gets displayed inside mutt using w3m. In my .muttrc I have 
set 
auto_view text/html application/x-pgp-message
and
text/html; /usr/bin/w3m -dump -T text/html '%s'; copiousoutput; 
description=HTML Text; nametemplate=%s.html
as the corresponding mailcap entry.
I wonder if I could pipe the html message part to the browser. The way I
did it, typing | and specifying firefox as the program to pipe it to,
did not really render it nicely.

best, P

display html email in browser?

[Peter P.]

Dear fellow mutt users,

Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
window? I tried saving the html message part to disk and opened that
file, but there was no formatting, and some symbols were wrong.

Motivation: Wanting to print a few html emails in their original form
(in full glory), not rendered through w3m, but wanting to get rid of
icedove/thunderbird, which I am keeping just for that.

Thanks for ideas!
P

Re: display html email in browser?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2015-04-28, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 2015-04-28, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yep.  What many of us do is use w3m to view inside mutt, and then
 define a 'print' command to view it externally:

   text/html; w3m -T text/html -dump; copiousoutput; print = firefoxurl %s;

 Uh, in case your crystal ball was broken, that's a line from ~/.mimecap.

Aargh. it's .mailcap, not .mimecap.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Hand me a pair of
  at   leather pants and a CASIO
  gmail.comkeyboard -- I'm living
   for today!

Re: display html email in browser?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2015-04-28, Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yep.  What many of us do is use w3m to view inside mutt, and then
 define a 'print' command to view it externally:

   text/html; w3m -T text/html -dump; copiousoutput; print = firefoxurl %s;

Uh, in case your crystal ball was broken, that's a line from ~/.mimecap.

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Is this an out-take
  at   from the BRADY BUNCH?
  gmail.com

Re: display html email in browser?

[Peter Davis]

Peter P. peterpar...@fastmail.com writes:

 * Francesco Ariis fa...@ariis.it [2015-04-28 12:47]:
 On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:09:34PM -0400, Peter P. wrote:
  Dear fellow mutt users,
  
  Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
  window?
 
 Hello Peter,
 once opened the message, press 'v' (view-attachments) and then
 select the .html one and press enter, that should auto-invoke
 x-www-browser.
 Thanks Francesco,
 That way the message gets displayed inside mutt using w3m. In my .muttrc I 
 have set 
   auto_view text/html application/x-pgp-message
 and
   text/html; /usr/bin/w3m -dump -T text/html '%s'; copiousoutput; 
 description=HTML Text; nametemplate=%s.html
 as the corresponding mailcap entry.
 I wonder if I could pipe the html message part to the browser. The way I
 did it, typing | and specifying firefox as the program to pipe it to,
 did not really render it nicely.

You can definitely do this, but I suspect most browsers are not designed
to accept input from stdin (a pipe). You can write a script to save the
HTML part in a temp file, and then display that in the browser. There
are actually a number of such scripts around if you Google it.

-pd


-- 

Peter Davis
The Tech Curmudgeon
www.techcurmudgeon.com

Re: display html email in browser?

[Francesco Ariis]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 01:02:52PM -0400, Peter P. wrote:
 Thanks Francesco,
 That way the message gets displayed inside mutt using w3m. In my .muttrc I 
 have set 
   auto_view text/html application/x-pgp-message
 and
   text/html; /usr/bin/w3m -dump -T text/html '%s'; copiousoutput; 
 description=HTML Text; nametemplate=%s.html
 as the corresponding mailcap entry.
 I wonder if I could pipe the html message part to the browser. The way I
 did it, typing | and specifying firefox as the program to pipe it to,
 did not really render it nicely.

Mhhh I am a puzzled on why saving (or piping, for what matters) ends
up in a corrupted result. Which symbols were wrong? Do you think you can
share the .html attachment or at least a picture depicting the missing
formatting?

Re: display html email in browser?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2015-04-28, Peter P. peterpar...@fastmail.com wrote:
 * Francesco Ariis fa...@ariis.it [2015-04-28 12:47]:
 On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:09:34PM -0400, Peter P. wrote:
  Dear fellow mutt users,
  
  Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
  window?
 
 Hello Peter,
 once opened the message, press 'v' (view-attachments) and then
 select the .html one and press enter, that should auto-invoke
 x-www-browser.
 Thanks Francesco,
 That way the message gets displayed inside mutt using w3m.

Yep.  What many of us do is use w3m to view inside mutt, and then
define a 'print' command to view it externally:

  text/html; w3m -T text/html -dump; copiousoutput; print = firefoxurl %s;

-firefoxurl
#!/bin/bash
MRC=firefox -remote
URL=$1
CMD=${2:-new-tab}
echo $0 '$1' '$2' /dev/tty
test -f $URL  URL=file://$URL
expr match $URL '.*://.*' /dev/null || URL=http://$URL;
if $MRC 'ping()' 2/dev/null ; then
  echo  'firefox already running'
  echo   $MRC openURL($URL,$CMD)
  $MRC openURL($URL,$CMD)
else
  echo  'firefox not running'
  echo   firefox $URL
  firefox $URL
fi  
---

So after you hit 'v' so see the attachments, select the html one and
hit 'p'

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! Am I elected yet?
  at   
  gmail.com

Re: display html email in browser?

[Larry Hynes]

On 2015-04-28, Peter P. peterpar...@fastmail.com wrote:
 Dear fellow mutt users,

 Is there a way to have an html email rendered and displayed in a browser
 window? I tried saving the html message part to disk and opened that
 file, but there was no formatting, and some symbols were wrong.

I use muttils (https://bitbucket.org/blacktrash/muttils) for
this very purpose. By default it maps, iirc, F7 to 'view in
browser' and F8 to 'view safely in browser' i.e. don't download
images, etc. This way I can still autoview html parts with w3m.

hth,

larry


 Motivation: Wanting to print a few html emails in their original form
 (in full glory), not rendered through w3m, but wanting to get rid of
 icedove/thunderbird, which I am keeping just for that.

 Thanks for ideas!
 P

html email

[Alain Marcoux]

Hi

When i use in interface option cntrl T to switch from text/plain to
text/html and putting html code in body it is working fine.

But If I use in command line it is not.why?

Here is the commande I do

Mutt -e my_hdr Content-Type: text/html -s subject emailadresse html.file

It is on sco 6 version 1.4.2.1i

Do I do something wrong?

Bye.


Merci / Thanks

Alain Marcoux
Informatique Conseils
685 Soeur-Marie-Rose
Terrebonne, Quebec, Canada
J6V 1P1
Tel:(450) 657-1214
Fax:(450) 657-9883
alain.marc...@infoc.ca

Re: html email

[Richard]

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:02:15AM -0500, Alain Marcoux wrote:
Hi,


 Mutt -e my_hdr Content-Type: text/html -s subject emailadresse html.file
 
 It is on sco 6 version 1.4.2.1i

this is quite an old version so you will not get much help for this version. 
Attaching 
html files should work as long as mutt can determine file type from the suffix. 
I have 
had myself plenty of problems and workarounds with html contents. 
Depends what you are really trying to do but mutt is not the ideal html mailer.

Richard

---
Name and OpenPGP keys available from pgp key servers

Re: html email

[Alain Marcoux]

THANKS FOR YOUR RESPOND

BUT IN SCO 6 IT SEEMS TO BE THE LAST VERSION

IT IS NOT THE ATTACHMENT I WANT TO PUT IN MY EMAIL 
IT IS THE BODY ITSELF
IT SEEM THAT THE COMMAND '-E ...' DOES NOT WORK



BYE.

Merci / Thanks

Alain Marcoux
Informatique Conseils
685 Soeur-Marie-Rose
Terrebonne, Quebec, Canada
J6V 1P1
Tel:(450) 657-1214
Fax:(450) 657-9883
alain.marc...@infoc.ca


-Original Message-
From: Richard Zidlicky [mailto:rdzid...@googlemail.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Monday, 17 January, 2011 16:44
To: Alain Marcoux
Cc: mutt-users@mutt.org
Subject: Re: html email

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 10:02:15AM -0500, Alain Marcoux wrote:
Hi,


 Mutt -e my_hdr Content-Type: text/html -s subject emailadresse
html.file
 
 It is on sco 6 version 1.4.2.1i

this is quite an old version so you will not get much help for this version.
Attaching 
html files should work as long as mutt can determine file type from the
suffix. I have 
had myself plenty of problems and workarounds with html contents. 
Depends what you are really trying to do but mutt is not the ideal html
mailer.

Richard

---
Name and OpenPGP keys available from pgp key servers

css/html email

[Jason Helfman]

Hi.

I am having issues in having any sort of formatted text go through lynx or
w3m.

I have noticed that if I save the information in an .html file, and view it
with a web browser, it looks, as it should. I would like to avoid doing
this, however all my autoviews are not working.

I have used the lynx autoview rule for years, however it doesn't seem to be
translating well with Evolution, or css formats that are going to my lovely
mutt.

I did look through the man for mutt, muttrc and looked through the mailing
list archives, and was unable to find a viable solution.

Any help would be appreciated.
Here is my autoview as it is now:

application/octet-stream; /home/jhelfman/.mutt/mutt.octet.filter %s;
copiousoutput
text/x-vcard; /home/jhelfman/.mutt/mutt.vcard.filter %s; copiousoutput
mime_lookup application/octet-stream

image/*; /usr/bin/eog %s ;copiousoutput
image/jpeg; /usr/bin/eog %s ;copiousoutput
application/rtf; ~/bin/oo.sh %s ; copiousoutput
application/msword; /usr/bin/antiword -i 1 -w 72 %s ; copiousoutput
application/excel; ~/bin/oo.sh %s ; copiousoutput
application/pdf; /usr/bin/xpdf %s ; copiousoutput
#text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -force_html -dump %s |more
text/html; /usr/bin/w3m -F -dump -T text/html %s; nametemplate=%s.html;
copiousoutput

auto_view text/html


~jason

Re: css/html email

[Kyle Wheeler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Monday, May 11 at 10:42 AM, quoth Jason Helfman:
 I have used the lynx autoview rule for years, however it doesn't 
 seem to be translating well with Evolution, or css formats that are 
 going to my lovely mutt.

Hmmm, I don't have trouble. I use w3m, though, so maybe I can help.

 Here is my autoview as it is now:

What are these lines from? ~/.mailcap? ~/.muttrc? You're mixing the 
syntax for both, so it's hard to tell if you're doing that 
intentionally or if you just don't know that the commands belong in 
one file or the other.

 application/octet-stream; /home/jhelfman/.mutt/mutt.octet.filter %s;
 copiousoutput

You do NOT want this. What you probably want is to remove that line 
from your mailcap and add the following line to your muttrc:

 mime_lookup application/octet-stream

What that does is causes mutt to select a mime-type for attachments 
that are labeled as application/octet-stream based on their filename.

 text/x-vcard; /home/jhelfman/.mutt/mutt.vcard.filter %s; copiousoutput
 mime_lookup application/octet-stream

Wait, those are both lines in your mailcap file? Um, no, that 
mime_lookup line goes in your muttrc, not your mailcap. And the 
text/x-vcard line? That goes in your ~/.mailcap file, not your muttrc.

 text/html; /usr/bin/w3m -F -dump -T text/html %s; 
 nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput

Okay, finally, the ONLY line in your mailcap that applies to your 
situation. :)

Note that the nametemplate option you're specifying is redundant. It 
achieves the exact same thing that the '-T text/html' option achieves. 
Pick one or the other, you don't need both.

Here's what I use:

 text/html; w3m -T text/html; needsterminal
 test/html; w3m -I ${charset} -dump -T text/html; copiousoutput

Well, okay, my actual setup is slightly more complicated (because w3m 
refuses to understand that my terminal width is more important than 
the widths specified by tables in the email, and thus w3m's output can 
sometimes exceed 80 columns. I have to use a sed script to sanitize 
html). But that's the basic setup. I have yet to receive a message 
that I can't render.

 auto_view text/html

Um, no.

My guess is that you're getting weird problems because you have mutt 
commands in your mailcap (or you have mailcap commands in your 
muttrc).

~Kyle
- -- 
As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others we should 
be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of ours, 
and this we should do freely and generously.
   -- Benjamin Franklin
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responding to HTML email

[Bill Moseley]

Most of the time I get HTML email that also has a text/plain part,
and that's what I reply to.

I've been getting mail from someone using Thunderbird that is
text/html only.

What I've been doing is hitting e to bring up the message in vim,
highlight the HTML and ! (filter) it though html2text.  Then I use ^E
to change the content type to text/plain.

I suspect there's an much easier way to deal with HTML-only email
(other than /dev/null).


-- 
Bill Moseley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: responding to HTML email

[Kyle Wheeler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday, March  5 at 12:00 PM, quoth Bill Moseley:
Most of the time I get HTML email that also has a text/plain part,
and that's what I reply to.

I've been getting mail from someone using Thunderbird that is
text/html only.

What I've been doing is hitting e to bring up the message in vim,
highlight the HTML and ! (filter) it though html2text.  Then I use ^E
to change the content type to text/plain.

I suspect there's an much easier way to deal with HTML-only email
(other than /dev/null).

All you have to do is auto_view text/html and have an entry in your 
mailcap file for text/html that has the copiousoutput flag set.

I think this ought to be a FAQ; it's probably in the mutt wiki 
somewhere.

~Kyle
- -- 
The more men you make free, the more freedom is strengthened and the 
... greater is the security of the State.
 -- Frederick Douglas, Nov 17, 1864
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Re: responding to HTML email

[Rado S]

=- Bill Moseley wrote on Wed  5.Mar'08 at 12:00:52 -0800 -=

 I suspect there's an much easier way to deal with HTML-only email
 (other than /dev/null).

The wiki-faq tells you, listed in the welcome-to-this-list message.

-- 
© Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal!
EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude.
You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give.

Re: responding to HTML email

[Bill Moseley]

On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 02:04:48PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote:
 On Wednesday, March  5 at 12:00 PM, quoth Bill Moseley:
 Most of the time I get HTML email that also has a text/plain part,
 and that's what I reply to.
 
 I've been getting mail from someone using Thunderbird that is
 text/html only.
 
 What I've been doing is hitting e to bring up the message in vim,
 highlight the HTML and ! (filter) it though html2text.  Then I use ^E
 to change the content type to text/plain.
 
 I suspect there's an much easier way to deal with HTML-only email
 (other than /dev/null).
 
 All you have to do is auto_view text/html and have an entry in your 
 mailcap file for text/html that has the copiousoutput flag set.

Oh, I see I disabled that in the past.  I guess auto_view worked
for the pager and replying (by passing the plain text to the editor)
but the .mailcap text/html entry also effects the attachment display.

In my attachment menu I'd like to be able to have it still run
my web browser for text/html.

Is there anyway to say use auto_view and the .mailcap entry for the
pager, but in the attachment menu use a different mailcap entry?
I didn't see in 3.3.1 Optional Fields a way to have different mailcap
entries for the pager and the attachment menu.

-- 
Bill Moseley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: responding to HTML email

[Kyle Wheeler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday, March  5 at 04:12 PM, quoth Bill Moseley:
 Is there anyway to say use auto_view and the .mailcap entry for the 
 pager, but in the attachment menu use a different mailcap entry? I 
 didn't see in 3.3.1 Optional Fields a way to have different mailcap 
 entries for the pager and the attachment menu.

Yes.

Mutt uses mailcap entries on a first-acceptable basis. For auto_view 
purposes, only entries with the copiousoutput flag are acceptable. 
Thus, if you have two entries, one which has copiousoutput and one 
which does not, put the entry with copiousoutput after the one that 
does not. Then, when mutt goes to render it for the pager, it will 
find the correct entry, and when it goes to render it for you for 
viewing via the attachment entry, it will find the other entry.

~Kyle
- -- 
The rule is, jam tomorrow and jam yesterday---but never jam today.
   -- Lewis Carroll
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Re: responding to HTML email

[Michael Tatge]

* On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 Bill Moseley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered:
 Is there anyway to say use auto_view and the .mailcap entry for the
 pager, but in the attachment menu use a different mailcap entry?
 I didn't see in 3.3.1 Optional Fields a way to have different mailcap
 entries for the pager and the attachment menu.

Yes, as the manual states the mailcap enty that has the copiousoutput
flag will be used for auto_view.
You can have more entries for any mime-type. The manual and the wiki
have some examples.

http://wiki.mutt.org/?MuttFaq/Attachment

HTH,

Michael
-- 
I have a very small mind and must live with it.
-- E. Dijkstra

PGP-Key-ID: 0xDC1A44DD
Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: responding to HTML email

[Gary Johnson]

On 2008-03-05, Bill Moseley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 02:04:48PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote:
  On Wednesday, March  5 at 12:00 PM, quoth Bill Moseley:
  Most of the time I get HTML email that also has a text/plain part,
  and that's what I reply to.
  
  I've been getting mail from someone using Thunderbird that is
  text/html only.
  
  What I've been doing is hitting e to bring up the message in vim,
  highlight the HTML and ! (filter) it though html2text.  Then I use ^E
  to change the content type to text/plain.
  
  I suspect there's an much easier way to deal with HTML-only email
  (other than /dev/null).
  
  All you have to do is auto_view text/html and have an entry in your 
  mailcap file for text/html that has the copiousoutput flag set.
 
 Oh, I see I disabled that in the past.  I guess auto_view worked
 for the pager and replying (by passing the plain text to the editor)
 but the .mailcap text/html entry also effects the attachment display.
 
 In my attachment menu I'd like to be able to have it still run
 my web browser for text/html.
 
 Is there anyway to say use auto_view and the .mailcap entry for the
 pager, but in the attachment menu use a different mailcap entry?
 I didn't see in 3.3.1 Optional Fields a way to have different mailcap
 entries for the pager and the attachment menu.

Yes.

   http://www.spocom.com/users/gjohnson/mutt/#html

HTH,
Gary

quoting/answering to an html email

[Lucas GR]

Hi you all,

I don't like htmml email messages very much, but i must say that they
are very useful sometimes when we *need* to send images or whatever in
the message body.

It is a fact that there are lots of people sending html emails without
even knowing it, because of their email account providers use this
format by default.

I use Opera for viewing this type of emails ( do you use any lighter 
and graphical application for it? ), but when I press the 'r' key for
answering these emails the text that i should quote never reaches the
body of the new message.

Is it possible to include the text of the received message or the whole
messase (formatted somehow) as a quotation into the message we are
answering with?
(please, excuse me for my poor english)
-- 
Lucas J. González

Re: quoting/answering to an html email

[Michael Tatge]

* On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 Lucas GR ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered:
[text/html messages]
 Is it possible to include the text of the received message or the whole
 messase (formatted somehow) as a quotation into the message we are
 answering with?

http://wiki.mutt.org/index.cgi?MuttFaq/Attachment

HTH,

Michael
-- 
C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success
-- Dennis M. Ritchie

PGP-Key-ID: 0xDC1A44DD
Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Marc Vaillant]

On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 05:38:15PM -0600, Travis H. wrote:
 On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 06:34:19PM +0100, Rado S wrote:
   Is there still considerable danger in dumping html via w3m or
   some other html to text converter?
 
 Well, theoretically, any time you operate on data provided by someone
 who may not be trustworthy, you face a risk.  The magnitude of the
 risk is dependent on the complexity of the program you're using to
 process it. {}

Thanks for the info Travis.

Marc

Re: HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Marc Vaillant]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 11:04:23PM -0600, Travis H.  wrote:
 I would say your best angle is a security angle.  See if you can get
 someone with the authority to recognize that reading your email with a
 web browser and/or sending HTML poses a threat to the security of the
 company and the users who don't know better.

Ok, thanks Travis.  I'm still pessimistic about being able to bring
about real change this way.  Unfortunately, I think that it's likely
going to take enough people getting burned before widespread change.

 
 If you need some argument by authority, I point you to the fact that
 the DoD banned the use of HTML email and OWA:
 
 http://www.fcw.com/article97178-12-22-06-Web
 

Perhaps it starts with the DoD.  Interestingly, all of the cited
anecdotes suggest that html is not getting blocked, but is getting
converted to text.  Is there still considerable danger in dumping html
via w3m or some other html to text converter?  That's not a rhetorical
question; I really don't know the answer and I'm not suggesting that
html email not be banned even if the answer is no.  

Also, we correspond with several DoD organizations on a weekly basis.
We've never had an email blocked, nor have we been told not to send html
email.

 On a personal level, you can always create an autoresponder that says
 something like, I'm sorry, but I was expecting an email from you and
 instead I got a web page.  I do not use a web browser to read email,
 so I cannot view this.  If you wish to communicate by email, please
 try sending one.

Ok, but I think that a less condescending, more diplomatic message that
cites a real reason--like security--would be more effective.

Re: HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Rado S]

=- Marc Vaillant wrote on Thu  8.Feb'07 at 11:58:48 -0500 -=

 Is there still considerable danger in dumping html via w3m or
 some other html to text converter?

No, see wiki FAQ how to make it work.

 Also, we correspond with several DoD organizations on a weekly
 basis. We've never had an email blocked, nor have we been told
 not to send html email.

Some blocks are black holes: no response.
Not being told: maybe the other side sorts them as spam and deals
with it later when searching for false positives rather than
responding normally. The correspondence itself is not lost, but time.
But of course your company might be white-listed, so no problems
at all, no matter how spammy it looks.

-- 
© Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal!
EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude.
You're responsible for ALL of it: you get what you give.

Re: HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Marc Vaillant]

On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 06:34:19PM +0100, Rado S wrote:
 =- Marc Vaillant wrote on Thu  8.Feb'07 at 11:58:48 -0500 -=
 
  Is there still considerable danger in dumping html via w3m or
  some other html to text converter?
 
 No, see wiki FAQ how to make it work.

Ok thanks.  I do it now, just wondering if there were any security
risks. 
 
  Also, we correspond with several DoD organizations on a weekly
  basis. We've never had an email blocked, nor have we been told
  not to send html email.
 
 Some blocks are black holes: no response.
 Not being told: maybe the other side sorts them as spam and deals
 with it later when searching for false positives rather than
 responding normally. The correspondence itself is not lost, but time.
 But of course your company might be white-listed, so no problems
 at all, no matter how spammy it looks.

Understand, thanks.

Marc

Re: HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Travis H.]

On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 06:34:19PM +0100, Rado S wrote:
  Is there still considerable danger in dumping html via w3m or
  some other html to text converter?

Well, theoretically, any time you operate on data provided by someone
who may not be trustworthy, you face a risk.  The magnitude of the
risk is dependent on the complexity of the program you're using to
process it.

I think most of the threat here is from javascript and stuff like that
which has no analog in plain text and would be filtered out.  The only
problem then would be a data-directed attack against the HTML
parser.  This would typically involve a buffer overflow of some kind
in the parser.  One thing you can try to do is sandbox it, via chroot
or jail or whatever you fancy.  The program isn't going to need to
access anything else, and has simple I/O (HTML in, text out), and
probably doesn't invoke any external programs so this shouldn't be
hard at all.

In practical terms, shoot for a program written in a HLL like python,
perl, ruby or ocaml, if you can find one.  They don't suffer from as
many problems as C programs, and speed isn't really an issue.

You would probably be very safe even without any of these procedures,
unless someone who knew you were doing this conversion, could guess
which one, and with good exploitation skills took a personal interest
in you.  In any case, if there were a bug in HTML parsers, it'd
likely be discovered on some of the phishing websites before email.
There just aren't enough people doing this to justify the time.
-- 
Good code works.  Great code can't fail. --
URL:http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/
For a good time on my UBE blacklist, email [EMAIL PROTECTED]


pgpoSDNuW5CY7.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Travis H.]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 06:31:03PM +0100, Rado S wrote:
 ... one part being the defensive things listed by Travis, but you
 also shouldn't forget that some outsiders rate html-ized mails
 as spammy, so at least the score increases or in the worst case
 it's outright blocked unless white-listed.
 ...
 (min. 50% of my total spam is html-ized: when I explain this to
 my partners, they understand and click their box. I haven't heard
 any of them complain about having lost quality of life ;)

Yep... spamassassin has this as a test in every install.
It may not be weighted enough to force a failure by default,
but it does count towards the overall spam score.

I'm reading this on a system that doesn't have X11 libraries,
so I can't easily view graphics anyway.  When I get around to
content filtering, I'm going to file those in =.spam
automatically.

BTW, the bayesian learning page at CRM114 or dspam (I forget)
has some interesting facts about HTML keywords.
-- 
Good code works.  Great code can't fail. --
URL:http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/
For a good time on my UBE blacklist, email [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Description: PGP signature

Re: HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Rado S]

=- Travis H. wrote on Thu  1.Feb'07 at 23:04:23 -0600 -=

 On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:59:51PM -0500, Marc Vaillant wrote:
  This just isn't realistic. What sort of view of mutt do you
  think an outlook user (potential mutt user) is going to get if
  I tell them Hey check out this great text based MUA that I
  have... only thing is, you know that feature that everyone in
  the office loves to use with their clients, well you have to
  tell them not to use it.
 
 Disclaimer: I am a security enthusiast
 
 I would say your best angle is a security angle. {...}

... one part being the defensive things listed by Travis, but you
also shouldn't forget that some outsiders rate html-ized mails
as spammy, so at least the score increases or in the worst case
it's outright blocked unless white-listed.

If they don't want to change their mind just for you as collegue
to make you more efficient at work, those arguments should make
some responsible dudes think about it.
(min. 50% of my total spam is html-ized: when I explain this to
my partners, they understand and click their box. I haven't heard
any of them complain about having lost quality of life ;)

-- 
© Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal!
EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude.
You're responsible for ALL of it: you get what you give.

HTML email, was Re: reading color quoted replies

[Travis H.]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 03:59:51PM -0500, Marc Vaillant wrote:
 This just isn't realistic.  What sort of view of mutt do you think an
 outlook user (potential mutt user) is going to get if I tell them Hey
 check out this great text based MUA that I have... only thing is,  you
 know that feature that everyone in the office loves to use with their
 clients, well you have to tell them not to use it.

Disclaimer: I am a security enthusiast

I would say your best angle is a security angle.  See if you can get
someone with the authority to recognize that reading your email with a
web browser and/or sending HTML poses a threat to the security of the
company and the users who don't know better.

If they don't know what phishing is, explain it to them.

Be sure you communicate how HTML rendering (and especially javascript)
have capabilities to confuse and mislead the user.

Further, say that email worked fine with no phishing incidents for a
good 20 years before HTML came along.  Do you think HTML email is so
important that the Internet did without it for 20 years?

If the person needs to send an attachment, that's fine.  That takes
care of any argument about images.  While the content of an attachment
may not be obvious from its filename (a book and its cover), at least
you know

1) Who sent it (modulo sender spoofing; HTML can only make it worse)
2) That it is an attachment
3) That you are downloading and/or executing that attachment.

If they have any doubts about the misleading potential of overly
complex formats like HTML and all the active crap that it can contain,
I'll be happy to convince them.  Just send me written permission,
your email address, and view each email, then email me and tell me
what they did.  Then I'll show you what you didn't know they did.
You will, however, be on your own when it comes to cleaning up the
resulting mess.

You can see a harmless example of many of them by going to this:

http://www.digicrime.com/

(NOTE: Browsing this site will cause all sorts of surprising behavior,
including sending emails from your machine).

If you need some argument by authority, I point you to the fact that
the DoD banned the use of HTML email and OWA:

http://www.fcw.com/article97178-12-22-06-Web

On a personal level, you can always create an autoresponder that says
something like, I'm sorry, but I was expecting an email from you and
instead I got a web page.  I do not use a web browser to read email,
so I cannot view this.  If you wish to communicate by email, please
try sending one.

 Yes, but equally sad are those who waste their lives pipe dreaming.
 Having enough foresight to know which battles will bring gain sorts the
 successful from the unsuccessful.

I hear the same arguments about using Windows instead of other OSes.
-- 
The driving force behind innovation is sublimation.
-- URL:http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/
For a good time on my UBE blacklist, email [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [OT] html email

[Mr. Wade]

Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
 Anyone got the equivelant Procmail recipe for dumping mail if
 it's text/html ot not addressed to you? I use this to get the
 latter:
 
 :0:
 * !(^[EMAIL PROTECTED])
 ~/Mail/Other/suspect
 
 Which works fine, adding the ability to weed out html would
 make it much better.

Actually, I think I'd use one recipe to catch the html messages
first, then dump the messages not explicitly addressed to me
last.  Perhaps something like this:

# BEGIN recipe

MAILDIR=${HOME}/Mail

:0 i:
* ^content-type: text\/html
| formail -i X-Spam-reject-reason: HTML-only \
   ${MAILDIR}/IN-spam

# The following needs to be the last recipe.  It dumps anything
# remaining that specifically mentions my addresses into the mail
# spool, and then anything else into the $MAILDIR/IN-spam
# mailbox.

ME='(some happy regexp describing my email addresses)'

:0:
* $ ^TO_$ME
$ORGMAIL

DEFAULT=${MAILDIR}/IN-spam

:0 f:
| formail -i X-Spam-reject-reason: not explicitly addressed to me

# END recipe (and END of ~/.procmailrc file)

-- Mr. Wade

-- 
Once we've got the bugs ironed out, we'll be running on flat
bugs.

Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Thomas Hurst]

* David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

 Off-topic meandering:
 I think it would be lovely to automatically compress all email before
 sending and have it opened on the other end,

Gzip your message body and you'll probably find half of mutt-users have
it decompressed and viewed automatically :)

 but that not only gets into more MIME types (I think it could be
 done pretty easily but haven't played with it, and certainly haven't
 thought about the troubles of, say, searching within a compressed mail
 body)

That would make tools like grep pretty useless.

 but also costs processing power to package up and then open up
 the item.  For those on a dialup link, though, it could be a real
 blessing.

I think it would be rather better for them if they could grab their
entire mailspool gzipped; most of the time it takes to download email
from a pop3d is taken up by the 'list messages, get message 1, read
message 1, delete message 1, get message 2, read message 2, delete
message 2...'.  With each command taking upwards of 0.2s to get there
and back, being able to just request 'give me all the messages you have
then delete them' would speed things up no end.

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
There's a whole WORLD in a mud puddle!
-- Doug Clifford

Re: html email

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Joel Hammer spake thus:
 I thought NT stands for New Technology. MS is always trying to make
 their customers forget about the last operating system.

I always thought it was Ne Twerking because NT is supposed to be so
secure for networks or something ;)

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Television: A medium. So called because it's neither rare nor
well done.
-- Ernie Kovacs



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Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[David T-G]

Thomas --

...and then Thomas Hurst said...
% 
% * David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
% 
%  Off-topic meandering:
%  I think it would be lovely to automatically compress all email before
%  sending and have it opened on the other end,
% 
% Gzip your message body and you'll probably find half of mutt-users have
% it decompressed and viewed automatically :)

Yep :-)


% 
%  but that not only gets into more MIME types (I think it could be
%  done pretty easily but haven't played with it, and certainly haven't
%  thought about the troubles of, say, searching within a compressed mail
%  body)
% 
% That would make tools like grep pretty useless.

Well, zgrep takes care of that, too, but it just makes things that much
tougher.  It would take some front-end work.


% 
%  but also costs processing power to package up and then open up
%  the item.  For those on a dialup link, though, it could be a real
%  blessing.
% 
% I think it would be rather better for them if they could grab their
% entire mailspool gzipped; most of the time it takes to download email
% from a pop3d is taken up by the 'list messages, get message 1, read
% message 1, delete message 1, get message 2, read message 2, delete
% message 2...'.  With each command taking upwards of 0.2s to get there
% and back, being able to just request 'give me all the messages you have
% then delete them' would speed things up no end.

Hmmm...  Not a bad idea.


% 
% -- 
% Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
% -
% There's a whole WORLD in a mud puddle!
%   -- Doug Clifford


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




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Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Thomas Hurst]

* David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

 ...and then Thomas Hurst said...
  Gzip your message body and you'll probably find half of mutt-users
  have it decompressed and viewed automatically :)

  That would make tools like grep pretty useless.

 Well, zgrep takes care of that, too, but it just makes things that
 much tougher.  It would take some front-end work.

Well, gzipped mail content would imply uuencoding or so; zgrep won't
work with that :)

gzipped mboxes make manipulation problematic, and gzipped individial
messages in a maildir is unlikely to save you much more than the odd
inode.

-- 
Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  http://www.aagh.net/
-
An ounce of application is worth a ton of abstraction.

Re: html email

[David Ellement]

On 020124, at 08:19:44, Gary Johnson wrote
 I receive a lot of internal memos from administrative assistants
 (formerly known as secretaries) formatted as HTML.  ...
 
 3.  In all fairness [donning flame suit now], HTML e-mail looks better
 to most users than does plain text.  You can change the font, you
 can put individual words or titles in bold or italics.  The
 presentation is just nicer.  A lot of people take pride in how their
 work looks, ...

I also see this fairly often.  Of course, because these folks care
about how their message looks, they also include stationery,
background or border images.  So I'll get a multipart/alternative
message with one or two image attachments, where the text part is
about 300 byte, the html part about 3k bytes, and the images about
30-100k bytes each.

The best ones are from the IT department, rejoicing in their
latest efficiency measures...

-- 
David Ellement [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: html email

[David T-G]

David --

...and then David Ellement said...
% 
...
% background or border images.  So I'll get a multipart/alternative
% message with one or two image attachments, where the text part is
% about 300 byte, the html part about 3k bytes, and the images about
% 30-100k bytes each.
% 
% The best ones are from the IT department, rejoicing in their
% latest efficiency measures...

Not any IT department where *I* ever work :-)


% 
% -- 
% David Ellement [EMAIL PROTECTED]


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




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Re: html email

[Thomas Dickey]

On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 09:52:26PM -0800, David Ellement wrote:
 The best ones are from the IT department, rejoicing in their
 latest efficiency measures...

worse -  the ones that have the message in plain text, along with a 500kb
attachment in M$ Word repeating word-for-word the same information.

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net

Re: html email

[Michael Maibaum]

On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 12:05:21PM -0500, Thomas Dickey wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 09:52:26PM -0800, David Ellement wrote:
  The best ones are from the IT department, rejoicing in their
  latest efficiency measures...
 
 worse -  the ones that have the message in plain text, along with a 500kb
 attachment in M$ Word repeating word-for-word the same information.

My favorite was the last bi-monthly report from our (win NT
dominated...) IT dept...It was a 4Mb word document for about a page and
a half, plus some high res pics, plus all the revisions in the word
document. It was sent to every email address in the institution
(thousands) and nearly brought the exchange server to it's knees...our
dept survived as our mail is on a sparcstation, though it nearly filled
it's disk, our IT guy, stripped out about 10k of text and sent that to
us all

Michael

-- 
Dr Michael A. Maibaum - (W)+1 (415) 561 1682 - (H)+1 (415) 626 6733
[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.gene-hacker.net/main/index.php

Re: html email

[Thomas Dickey]

On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 09:17:14AM -0800, Michael Maibaum wrote:
 My favorite was the last bi-monthly report from our (win NT
 dominated...) IT dept...It was a 4Mb word document for about a page and

I'm not able to top that.  (There are some instances where individuals have
sent larger attachments - some because they don't think to compress a file,
and others who make a habit of attaching the relevant files - more than once -
even though I already have the files).

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net

Re: html email

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 26, Michael Maibaum [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
 My favorite was the last bi-monthly report from our (win NT
 dominated...) IT dept...It was a 4Mb word document for about a page and
 a half, plus some high res pics, plus all the revisions in the word
 document. It was sent to every email address in the institution
 (thousands) and nearly brought the exchange server to it's knees...our
 dept survived as our mail is on a sparcstation, though it nearly filled
 it's disk, our IT guy, stripped out about 10k of text and sent that to
 us all

A month or two ago, we started getting pages from our router guys asking if
we knew why our Linux/qmail/etc. boxes were completely saturating our
external pipe and almost taking the router down.  By the time the guy that
was on call got back to work, they had shut down outgoing SMTP at the
firewall to at least block whatever it was, since 4 of our remote offices'
Exchange servers had gone down under the load.

Turns out somebody was trying to send a mail with a 3MB word doc to
everyone in the company and their brother.  Of course qmail happily
complied, killing 4 other mail servers and almost the router in the
process.  We'd just recently gotten them to switch to Linux + qmail on the
corporate border SMTP, and one of the managers actually suggested it was a
flaw of qmail that it didn't crash at this point, to act as a break point.
:)

Of course we now have real limiting in place to make sure someone can't do
it again.



msg23839/pgp0.pgp
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Re: html email

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 25, David Ellement [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
 I also see this fairly often.  Of course, because these folks care
 about how their message looks, they also include stationery,
 background or border images.  So I'll get a multipart/alternative
 message with one or two image attachments, where the text part is
 about 300 byte, the html part about 3k bytes, and the images about
 30-100k bytes each.

Yeah... and the stationery and fonts they use with it often require
superhuman eyes to handle the contrast, etc.  And replies to it often pick
it up because of how people have their configurations.

My personal favorite is when they send single images announcing some
event/etc. as a _PowerPoint_ file.



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Re: html email

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 26, Rob 'Feztaa' Park [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
 Alas! Jeremy Blosser spake thus:
 
  one of the managers actually suggested it was a flaw of qmail that it
  didn't crash at this point, to act as a break point. :)
 
 Linux: Too stable for it's own good!
 
 That's a new one on me ;)

Yeah... there's a little more to that... we'd just switched from a Novell
Groupwise system to using Exchange for the group mail stuff with qmail on
the border handling the real incoming/outgoing mail (talk about your bad
news/good news situations).  This was pretty much the first Friday after we
switched.  When he heard the story, one of the old Groupwise admins
commented that the Groupwise system used to go down every Friday at about
the same time, and they never quite knew why... they just bounced the
server and it was fine again.  So the theory (among managers anyway) became
that this was some kind of regular mail that had been going on all along,
but had never been a problem before because Groupwise just crashed and it
died there.  It seems to me there would still be a queue with those
messages waiting to go out again that would keep causing problems til they
fixed it, but I don't know Groupwise.



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Re: html email

[Knute]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson wrote:


 * and then Michael Maibaum blurted
  My favorite was the last bi-monthly report from our (win NT
  dominated...) IT dept...It was a 4Mb word document for about a page and
  a half, plus some high res pics, plus all the revisions in the word
  document. It was sent to every email address in the institution

 - From the /IT/ department? Sheesh, even my mum sends text only, /and/
 understands why. How can you work in an IT department and be so
 monumentally ignorant?

Hr  Well, as it is an NT dominated environment,  anybody know
what NT stands for?

No Thoughts

By the way,  why didn't they just put links to the pics instead?
Isn't that the reason for a wan or a lan?
-- 
Knute

You live, You die.  Enjoy the interval!
-- Clarence



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Re: html email

[Knute]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Jeremy Blosser wrote:


 Yeah... there's a little more to that... we'd just switched from a Novell
 Groupwise system to using Exchange for the group mail stuff with qmail on
 the border handling the real incoming/outgoing mail (talk about your bad
 news/good news situations).  This was pretty much the first Friday after we
 switched.  When he heard the story, one of the old Groupwise admins
 commented that the Groupwise system used to go down every Friday at about
 the same time, and they never quite knew why... they just bounced the
 server and it was fine again.  So the theory (among managers anyway) became
 that this was some kind of regular mail that had been going on all along,
 but had never been a problem before because Groupwise just crashed and it
 died there.  It seems to me there would still be a queue with those
 messages waiting to go out again that would keep causing problems til they
 fixed it, but I don't know Groupwise.

Isn't that what logs are for?

You know, to help diagnose issues such as that.

But checking log files was never a strong point for windows though.
Even in NT where logs are actually kept,  I'm not sure how often they
were actually checked.

-- 
Knute

You live, You die.  Enjoy the interval!
-- Clarence



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Re: html email

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Knute spake thus:
 By the way,  why didn't they just put links to the pics instead?
 Isn't that the reason for a wan or a lan?

Give these guys a break, anybody who uses NT by choice can't be very
bright ;)

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
When the authorities warn you of the dangers of having sex,
there is an important lesson to be learned. Do not have sex with
the authorities.
-- Matt Groening



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Re: html email

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 26, Knute [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
 Isn't that what logs are for?
 
 You know, to help diagnose issues such as that.

Yeah.  Our group maintains/checks our logs.  The others...

It's actually been hard for management to adjust to the idea that we can
tell them what happened when they ask, and aren't guessing about it.



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Re: html email

[Michael Maibaum]

On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 05:42:57PM -0600, Knute wrote:
 On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson wrote:
 
 
  * and then Michael Maibaum blurted
   My favorite was the last bi-monthly report from our (win NT
   dominated...) IT dept...It was a 4Mb word document for about a page and
   a half, plus some high res pics, plus all the revisions in the word
   document. It was sent to every email address in the institution
 
  - From the /IT/ department? Sheesh, even my mum sends text only, /and/
  understands why. How can you work in an IT department and be so
  monumentally ignorant?
 
 Hr  Well, as it is an NT dominated environment,  anybody know
 what NT stands for?
 
 No Thoughts
 
 By the way,  why didn't they just put links to the pics instead?
 Isn't that the reason for a wan or a lan?

well, I wondered why the whole thing wasn't on an internal website somewhere

I never figured out why not...

Michael

-- 
Dr Michael A. Maibaum - (W)+1 (415) 561 1682 - (H)+1 (415) 626 6733
[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.gene-hacker.net/main/index.php

Re: html email

[Joel Hammer]

I thought NT stands for New Technology. MS is always trying to make
their customers forget about the last operating system.

Joel

  Hr  Well, as it is an NT dominated environment,  anybody know
  what NT stands for?
  
  No Thoughts

Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Cameron Simpson]

On 14:09 25 Jan 2002, Michael Montagne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| I often read about the evils os HTML email and since I do all my email
| with mutt now, I appreciate text email.  But something I don't
| understand is the argument that it slows down the internet for everyone.
| Isn't HTML just text?

Yes.

| The tags are evaluated and formatted at the
| client.  So is it just that there is more text than there needs to be?

Yes.

| Or is it the links and scripts that are often included?  

Yes.

| I'd like to be more informed as I operate in an office full of windows
| users who like to format everything in sight.

Well, there are plenty of things that don't handle all the whiz-bang HTML
markup. God knows how the blind feel. And if ythey need this pretty junk
to express their intent then I'd say they're somewhat illiterate.

And you should see the hideous things it does to mail list archives.

I saw this great sig quote somewhere Ah...
--
Cameron Simpson, DoD#743[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

I wanted to read your article but it had a bunch of HTML code and brackets
and garbage, instead of content. Maybe you could try posting it again?
- Al Iverson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Cameron Simpson]

On 17:28 25 Jan 2002, David T-G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| Off-topic meandering:
| I think it would be lovely to automatically compress all email before
| sending and have it opened on the other end, but that not only gets
| into more MIME types (I think it could be done pretty easily but haven't
| played with it, and certainly haven't thought about the troubles of, say,
| searching within a compressed mail body) but also costs processing power
| to package up and then open up the item.  For those on a dialup link,
| though, it could be a real blessing.

I fetch my email with fetchmail. Via ssh to my ISP. I just turn on
compression in the ssh connection.

But bear in mind that some of the speed of a 56kbps modem _is_ done with
compression by the modems themselves, so precompressed content still
comes down at the native bitrate, which is still in the 33kbps range as
I recall.
-- 
Cameron Simpson, DoD#743[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

Craft, n.  A fool's substitute for brains.  - The Devil's Dictionary

Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Marco]

   2.  I got tired of explaining text-only MUAs to them only to
   receive comments like, I guess Unix isn't very good if it
   can't even display different colors and fonts like my PC can.
..
  .What do you say to comments like that? There's
  no point, they'll never get it :(

As already said, you tell them that they are looking at the wrong problem (and an 
unexistent one, as any kmail screehshot will show).
Text MUAs and Operating system have nothing to do with this.

You must answer that displaying fonts and colors in EMAIL (not word
processing, that's a different topic) is BAD even on windows, and
the worst form of bad manners, because it slows downs unnecessarily
ALL internet traffic, AND forces the receiver to waste HIS money and
time (even on windows!) to look at somebody else's idea of nice
formatting.

You must answer that it's like mailing a letter inside a three pounds
box ... at the expense of the receiver.

Never talk about text muas and operating systems when fighting HTML
mail, point out that it's bad EVEN for outlook/windows users. They
don't get it, and most times, actually, it's not their fault.

Marco

Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Michael Montagne]

On 25/01/02, from the brain of Marco tumbled:
 You must answer that it's like mailing a letter inside a three pounds
 box ... at the expense of the receiver.
 
 Never talk about text muas and operating systems when fighting HTML
 mail, point out that it's bad EVEN for outlook/windows users. They
 don't get it, and most times, actually, it's not their fault.
 
   Marco

I often read about the evils os HTML email and since I do all my email
with mutt now, I appreciate text email.  But something I don't
understand is the argument that it slows down the internet for everyone.
Isn't HTML just text?  The tags are evaluated and formatted at the
client.  So is it just that there is more text than there needs to be?
Or is it the links and scripts that are often included?  
I'd like to be more informed as I operate in an office full of windows
users who like to format everything in sight.

-- 
Michael Montagne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.boora.com

Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Jeremy Blosser]

On Jan 25, Michael Montagne [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
 Isn't HTML just text?  The tags are evaluated and formatted at the
 client.  So is it just that there is more text than there needs to be?

Yes.  Just text doesn't mean much; text or binary, it's all 1's and 0's
in the end.  The important thing is the amount of 1's and 0's going around.
HTML versions of files are, in my experience, about 3x the size of the text
version.  This would be less of an issue if that was to actually add any
value, but in the case of most people it's just used to send text without
any formatting anyway, or text formatted in ways they think is pretty but
that makes it unreadable.



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Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* and then Michael Montagne blurted
 I often read about the evils os HTML email and since I do all my email
 with mutt now, I appreciate text email.  But something I don't
 understand is the argument that it slows down the internet for everyone.
 Isn't HTML just text?  The tags are evaluated and formatted at the

Sure is.

 client.  So is it just that there is more text than there needs to be?

That would be the way I understand it. One or two don't hurt but once
those few extra bytes are multiplied thousands of even millions of times
it's a bigger deal.


- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[David T-G]

Michael --

...and then Michael Montagne said...
% 
% On 25/01/02, from the brain of Marco tumbled:
%  You must answer that it's like mailing a letter inside a three pounds
%  box ... at the expense of the receiver.
...
% 
% I often read about the evils os HTML email and since I do all my email
% with mutt now, I appreciate text email.  But something I don't

Good for you :-)


% understand is the argument that it slows down the internet for everyone.
% Isn't HTML just text?  The tags are evaluated and formatted at the
% client.  So is it just that there is more text than there needs to be?
% Or is it the links and scripts that are often included?  

If we assume that content is size x, then we can also assume that
any formatting thereof must increase the message size from x to x+n.
Unfortunately, it is not at all uncommon for generated HTML to have n
much greater than x.  Hence the size argument; every letter takes twice
(thrice? more?) as much bandwidth, processing, and disk space when
formatted in HTML versus plain ASCII.

Off-topic meandering:
I think it would be lovely to automatically compress all email before
sending and have it opened on the other end, but that not only gets
into more MIME types (I think it could be done pretty easily but haven't
played with it, and certainly haven't thought about the troubles of, say,
searching within a compressed mail body) but also costs processing power
to package up and then open up the item.  For those on a dialup link,
though, it could be a real blessing.


% I'd like to be more informed as I operate in an office full of windows
% users who like to format everything in sight.

Best of luck!


% 
% -- 
% Michael Montagne
% [EMAIL PROTECTED]
% http://www.boora.com


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




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Re: Don't mention MUAS to fight html email

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 02:09:09PM -0800 I heard the voice of
Michael Montagne, and lo! it spake thus:

 Isn't HTML just text?  The tags are evaluated and formatted at the
 client.  So is it just that there is more text than there needs to be?
 Or is it the links and scripts that are often included?  

Yes.

I'm not even going to INCLUDE it here.
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/misc/msghtml
This came into a tech support alias I watch.


-- 
Matthew Fuller (MF4839) |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unix Systems Administrator  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Specializing in FreeBSD |http://www.over-yonder.net/

The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I
  haven't figured out how to light the middle yet

Re: [OT] html email

[Marco Fioretti]

 
 I suppose it's equally valid for them to say, I, the sender, should be able
 to control how a message is presented to you.
 
No, that's the whole point, because with email the (time, money) extra
expense associated with downloading useless html formatting is paid by the
receiver, not the sender.

Even if both receiver and sender use GUI mua's, and regardless of the
OS.

Marco
 
 -- 
 Mike Schiraldi
 VeriSign Applied Research



-- 
The whole world is a tuxedo and you are a pair of brown shoes.
-- George Gobel

Re: [OT] html email

[Thomas Huemmler]

Hello Nick,

* Nick Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020123 17:56]:
 and talking of bad communicators, it's been killing me trying to work
 out what IMHO stands for? Is there a site that lists all these little
 jobbies?

if you are using Debian, you can install the dictd Dictionary Server, 
the dict Client and the Jargon File with the command

apt-get install dictd dict dict-jargon

Then you can use the command

dict UNKNOWN_WORD

to get an explanation like the following:

thomas@hogwarts:~$ dict HTH
1 definition found

From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (07Oct99) [foldoc]:
  
  HTH

  chat Hope This Helps.  Often used sarcastically, see {HAND}.
  (1998-03-06)

HTH  HAND ;-)
Thomas

Re: [OT] html email

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* and then Thomas Huemmler blurted
 if you are using Debian, you can install the dictd Dictionary Server, 
 the dict Client and the Jargon File with the command

Hmmm... Actually I'm RedHat but I'm sure I can do something similar,
I've bookmarked the page but have not had time for more than a quick
glance as of yet.

Thanks
- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: [OT] html email

[Gary Johnson]

On Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 12:47:25PM -0500, Thomas E. Dickey wrote:

 the colors are fixable - what is painful for html email regarding mutt is
 that since the html attachments don't show up except as a single line, I
 tend to delete the email before reading it.  (There are inevitably some
 people who have something to say in those emails but have chosen to use
 some !@#$-ware such as hotmail because it's free).

It depends on how you have mutt configured.  I have my mailcap file and
auto_view command set up to display HTML attachments as plain text in
mutt's pager and have display_filter set to remove the [-- ... --]
lines that mutt adds.  Except for a slight delay as the longer
attachments are rendered, I can't even tell the difference between HTML
and plain text e-mail anymore.

I receive a lot of internal memos from administrative assistants
(formerly known as secretaries) formatted as HTML.  I used to explain to
them about different MUAs and would ask them to please send their memos
as plain text.  I just don't worry about it anymore, for the following
reasons.

1.  As I said above, now that I have mutt, I don't notice it anymore.

2.  I got tired of explaining text-only MUAs to them only to receive
comments like, I guess Unix isn't very good if it can't even
display different colors and fonts like my PC can.  When are you
guys going to start using Windows?

3.  In all fairness [donning flame suit now], HTML e-mail looks better
to most users than does plain text.  You can change the font, you
can put individual words or titles in bold or italics.  The
presentation is just nicer.  A lot of people take pride in how their
work looks, and to people working in a Windows environment where
it's easy to make a memo look more professional (not just fancier)
by using different fonts and character styles, why wouldn't they
want to take advantage of these features?  Most of their recipients
probably appreciate it.  Even manual typewriters offered more
flexibility than text/plain does.

4.  HTML beats all heck out of the Word documents they used to send.  I
do keep pounding on that and seem to be making progress.

Gary

-- 
Gary Johnson   | Agilent Technologies
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Spokane, Washington, USA
http://www.spocom.com/users/gjohnson/mutt/ |

Re: [OT] html email

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* and then Gary Johnson blurted
 It depends on how you have mutt configured.  I have my mailcap file and
 auto_view command set up to display HTML attachments as plain text in
 mutt's pager and have display_filter set to remove the [-- ... --]
 lines that mutt adds.  Except for a slight delay as the longer

Could you post that line?
That /is/ kind of annoying seeing those lines.
Saying that though I would still like an idicator that it is indeed html
mail.

 I receive a lot of internal memos from administrative assistants
 (formerly known as secretaries) formatted as HTML.  I used to explain to

And still collectively known as 'Doris' in some male dominated firms, or
so I've heard (ahem) ;)

 2.  I got tired of explaining text-only MUAs to them only to receive
 comments like, I guess Unix isn't very good if it can't even
 display different colors and fonts like my PC can.  When are you
 guys going to start using Windows?

Classic, that's the kind of comment that gets me all raging and frothing
at the mouth. What do you say to comments like that? There's no point,
they'll never get it :(

 3.  In all fairness [donning flame suit now], HTML e-mail looks better
 to most users than does plain text.  You can change the font, you
 can put individual words or titles in bold or italics.  The
 presentation is just nicer.  A lot of people take pride in how their

Yes, it's a good point. I don't think you need your flame suit, it's a
point worth making.


- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: [OT] html email

[Mike Schiraldi]

 2.  I got tired of explaining text-only MUAs to them only to receive
 comments like, I guess Unix isn't very good if it can't even
 display different colors and fonts like my PC can.  When are you
 guys going to start using Windows?

It all comes down to who should be in control -- in my opinion, i, the
reader, should be able to control how a message is presented to me.

I suppose it's equally valid for them to say, I, the sender, should be able
to control how a message is presented to you.


-- 
Mike Schiraldi
VeriSign Applied Research



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Re: [OT] html email

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach »Nick Wilson« am 2002-01-23 um 18:04:08 +0100 :
 find clicking a link in an email easier than pasting it into a browser.
 It /is/ easier. They're just not aware of the down points of html mail.

Well, sure it is - however don't all the HTML capable MUAs convert texts
like http://this-is-not.a.link.de into a clickable link?  Mozilla does.
So HTML isn't needed for this.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 9 days 19 hours 44 minutes

Re: [OT] html email

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Alexander Skwar spake thus:
 Well, sure it is - however don't all the HTML capable MUAs convert texts
 like http://this-is-not.a.link.de into a clickable link?  Mozilla does.

Mutt highlights that as a mail, and urlview recognizes it as a link. No
need for HTML-enabled mailers at all. Not clickable, but still a link.

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Someone told me that each equation I included in the book would
halve the sales.
-- Stephen Hawking (A Brief History of Time)



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Re: [OT] html email

[Gary Johnson]

On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 05:49:27PM +0100, Nick Wilson wrote:

 * and then Gary Johnson blurted
  It depends on how you have mutt configured.  I have my mailcap file and
  auto_view command set up to display HTML attachments as plain text in
  mutt's pager and have display_filter set to remove the [-- ... --]
  lines that mutt adds.  Except for a slight delay as the longer
 
 Could you post that line?
 That /is/ kind of annoying seeing those lines.

I use the following set of folder-hooks.

folder-hook .   set display_filter=mail-to-filter
folder-hook +Incoming/. 'set display_filter=sed '\''/^\\[-- .* --]$/d'\'''
folder-hook +Lists/.'set display_filter=sed '\''/^\\[-- .* --]$/d'\'''
folder-hook '!' set display_filter=mutt_gen_disp_filter

Unless otherwise specified, I use the 'mail-to-filter' script to compress
excessively long distribution lists.  (Lists of over a hundred
recipients are common where I work.)

The middle two hooks cover all the mailing lists I read, where it is
common for people to send HTML messages, but uncommon for them to send
odd attachments.  (Figuring out how to quote mutt commands properly is
so much fun!)

For my main mailbox ('!'), where I might receive anything, I use a
catch-all script, 'mutt_gen_disp_filter', which includes a sed script to
selectively remove the [--  lines:

#!/bin/sh
# mutt_gen_disp_filter - general display filter for mutt

mail-to-filter |
sed '
/^\[-- Autoview using .* --]$/d
/^\[-- Attachment .* --]$/d
/^\[-- Type: .* --]$/d
'

 Saying that though I would still like an idicator that it is indeed html
 mail.

You could easily add a command like the following to the sed script to
replace the HTML autoview line with an indicator more to your liking.

s/^\[-- Autoview using .*html.*/[This message is of type text/html]\
/

The backslash at the end of the first line followed by the forward slash
on the next line to terminate string adds a newline between the HTML
indicator string and the message body.

Gary

-- 
Gary Johnson   | Agilent Technologies
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Spokane, Washington, USA
http://www.spocom.com/users/gjohnson/mutt/ |

Re: [OT] html email

[David T-G]

Rob, et al --

...and then Feztaa said...
% 
% Alas! Alexander Skwar spake thus:
%  Well, sure it is - however don't all the HTML capable MUAs convert texts
%  like http://this-is-not.a.link.de into a clickable link?  Mozilla does.
% 
% Mutt highlights that as a mail, and urlview recognizes it as a link. No
% need for HTML-enabled mailers at all. Not clickable, but still a link.

... and even clickable if you're running under eterm, IIRC.  Check the
archives; it's been done :-)


% 
% -- 
% Rob 'Feztaa' Park
% [EMAIL PROTECTED]
% --
% Someone told me that each equation I included in the book would
% halve the sales.
% -- Stephen Hawking (A Brief History of Time)


:-D
-- 
David T-G  * It's easier to fight for one's principles
(play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie
(work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!




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Re: [OT] html email

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Gary Johnson spake thus:
 2.  I got tired of explaining text-only MUAs to them only to receive
 comments like, I guess Unix isn't very good if it can't even
 display different colors and fonts like my PC can.  When are you
 guys going to start using Windows?

Yeah, Unix really is a POS. We don't need no stinking standards!! Random
havoc is good enough for anybody!

Seriously. If you have the intellectual capacity of a 3 year old, you
might appreciate the fancy colors of HTML mail. But if you have a brain,
and can think for yourself, you probably know that pretty pictures are a
waste of time, all that matters is the content. In other words, No BS.

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
I chased a girl for two years only to discover that her tastes
were exactly like mine: We were both crazy about girls.
-- Groucho Marx



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Re: [OT] html email

[Alexander Skwar]

So sprach »David T-G« am 2002-01-24 um 14:48:30 -0500 :
 ... and even clickable if you're running under eterm, IIRC.  Check the

gnome-term (and I think also the KDE konsole) also feature this.

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote:   http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (english)
Homepage:   http://www.iso-top.de  | Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   iso-top.de - Die günstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
   Uptime: 9 days 23 hours 58 minutes

Re: [OT] html email

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:18:43PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Brian Clark, and lo! it spake thus:
 
 :0:
 * ^From.*pc-html-user@domain\.com
 /dev/null

Actually, I've found that this:
if(/^Content-Type: text\/html/)
to $MBOXDIR/crap

catches more of my spam than any other of my off-the-cuff heuristics (I
mean, like at factor of 2 more, and seemingly more than the rest combined).
I read through my 'crap' mailbox every few days, and pretty much end up
just hitting 'd' (granted, for about 5 minutes, but better
5 minutes every few days than a few seconds a few hundred times EVERY
day, eh?).  The only false positive I've had it get was a payment
confirmation from the telco's online bill payment (in the rare case that
it actually works).

Note (for those of you not familiar with maildrop) that it's only doing
a header search, so in the case of a HTML attachment or a
multipart/alternative, this doesn't trigger; only when the sole part of
the body is in text/html.


-- 
Matthew Fuller (MF4839) |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unix Systems Administrator  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Specializing in FreeBSD |http://www.over-yonder.net/

The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I
  haven't figured out how to light the middle yet

Re: [OT] html email

[Brian Clark]

* Matthew D. Fuller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 24. 2002 18:29]:

 Actually, I've found that this:
 if(/^Content-Type: text\/html/)
 to $MBOXDIR/crap

 catches more of my spam than any other of my off-the-cuff heuristics
 (I mean, like at factor of 2 more, and seemingly more than the rest
 combined). I read through my 'crap' mailbox every few days, and
 pretty much end up just hitting 'd' (granted, for about 5
 minutes, but better

Now, for spam-spam (different than your Aunt's spam ;-)), I use
spamassassin and I've had good results. I have had luck in talking with
a few people that liked to send me HTML email, and I managed to get them
to stop (as in, you don't do it, you won't hear from me again).

But to make this semi-OT:

For the ddd's g, I use this, which someone else on the list
suggested a few months ago:

folder-hook spam push 'D.\n'

That way, I just skim over the messages and leave the mbox when I'm
satisfied. 

If it catches a friend, newletter, etc, I just add the sender's address
to a file called known.list and use this rule:

# known sender's list
:0:
* ? (formail -x From: | fgrep -iqf $PMDIR/known.list)
$MAILDIR/inbox

(By the way, is there a better way to do the above?)

-- 
Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805!
Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8
If only women came with a CLI.

Re: [OT] html email

[Roman Neuhauser]

 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:36:28 -0600
 From: Jeremy Blosser [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [OT] html email
 
 On Jan 24, Matthew D. Fuller [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
  Actually, I've found that this:
  if(/^Content-Type: text\/html/)
  to $MBOXDIR/crap
  
  catches more of my spam than any other of my off-the-cuff heuristics (I
  mean, like at factor of 2 more, and seemingly more than the rest combined).
  I read through my 'crap' mailbox every few days, and pretty much end up
  just hitting 'd' (granted, for about 5 minutes, but better
  5 minutes every few days than a few seconds a few hundred times EVERY
  day, eh?).  The only false positive I've had it get was a payment
  confirmation from the telco's online bill payment (in the rare case that
  it actually works).
 
 I wonder if you could improve that even more by checking if the message is
 actually addressed to you?

Like this?
   
if(/^Content-Type: text\/html/  hasaddr([EMAIL PROTECTED]))
to $MBOXDIR/crap

X-Warning: had a few beers.

-- 
FreeBSD 4.4-STABLE
12:57AM up 4 days, 7:20, 11 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00

Re: [OT] html email

[Brian Clark]

* Brian Clark ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 24. 2002 18:54]:

 But to make this semi-OT:

D'oh, make that `semi-On-Topic'

-- 
Brian Clark | Avoiding the general public since 1805!
Fingerprint: 07CE FA37 8DF6 A109 8119 076B B5A2 E5FB E4D0 C7C8
Stop searching forever. Happiness is unattainable.

Re: [OT] html email

[Roman Neuhauser]

 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:42:05 -0500
 From: Brian Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [OT] html email
 
 * Matthew D. Fuller ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [Jan 24. 2002 18:29]:
 
snip

 If it catches a friend, newletter, etc, I just add the sender's address
 to a file called known.list and use this rule:
 
 # known sender's list
 :0:
 * ? (formail -x From: | fgrep -iqf $PMDIR/known.list)
 $MAILDIR/inbox
 
 (By the way, is there a better way to do the above?)

Maybe this:

if (/^From: *!.*/  lookup($MATCH2, $PMDIR/known.list))
{
to $MAILDIR/inbox
}

But I have to stop rambling. :) 

-- 
FreeBSD 4.4-STABLE
1:30AM up 4 days, 7:53, 11 users, load averages: 0.10, 0.05, 0.01

Re: [OT] html email

[Danie Roux]

On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 05:49:27PM +0100, Nick Wilson wrote:
  2.  I got tired of explaining text-only MUAs to them only to receive
  comments like, I guess Unix isn't very good if it can't even
  display different colors and fonts like my PC can.  When are you
  guys going to start using Windows?
 
 Classic, that's the kind of comment that gets me all raging and frothing
 at the mouth. What do you say to comments like that? There's no point,
 they'll never get it :(

I was doing some great shell magic yesterday when my co-worker came by
and said: Oh! Linux is a lot like DOS then.

I wanted to strangle her.

-- 
Danie Roux *shuffle* Adore Unix

Re: [OT] html email

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* and then Brian Clark blurted
 :0:
 * ^From.*pc-html-user@domain\.com
 /dev/null
 
 Save yourself from having to explain further. :-)

Hehe, yeah, that'd do it!

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: [OT] html email

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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* and then Roman Neuhauser blurted
 Like this?

   if(/^Content-Type: text\/html/  hasaddr([EMAIL PROTECTED]))
   to $MBOXDIR/crap
 
 X-Warning: had a few beers.

Anyone got the equivelant Procmail recipe for dumping mail if it's text/html ot not 
addressed to you? I use this to get the latter:

:0:
* !(^[EMAIL PROTECTED])
~/Mail/Other/suspect

Which works fine, adding the ability to weed out html would make it much
better.

Cheers
- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: [OT] html email

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Nick Wilson spake thus:

 Anyone got the equivelant Procmail recipe for dumping mail if it's
 text/html ot not addressed to you? I use this to get the latter:

 :0: 
 * !(^[EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
 ~/Mail/Other/suspect

 Which works fine, adding the ability to weed out html would make it
 much better.

This is untested, but ought to work:

:0:
* ^!TO_your@address\.com
* ^Content-Type.*html
$GARBAGE_CAN

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
About MS-DOS: ... an OS originally designed for a microprocessor
that modern kitchen appliances would sneer at...
-- Dave Trowbridge, _Computer Technology Review_,
Aug '90



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Re: [OT] html email

[Rob 'Feztaa' Park]

Alas! Matthew D. Fuller spake thus:

  I agree with that. Seems to me like the only people who would prefer
  HTML mail would be the PHBs who like the pretty colors and pictures
  embedded in it.

 That would be The ones who spend the money, right?

Uhhh... shutup.

;)

Just because they're the ones that spend the money, doesn't mean they
know what to spend it on!

-- 
Rob 'Feztaa' Park
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the
world, I can't help but cry. I mean, I'd love to be skinny like that
but not with all those flies and death and stuff.
-- Mariah Carey



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Re: [OT] html email

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 01:45:37PM -0700 I heard the voice of
Rob 'Feztaa' Park, and lo! it spake thus:
 
 Just because they're the ones that spend the money, doesn't mean they
 know what to spend it on!

'Course not!

That's why the helpful salesdroids send them the pretty fluffy friendly
colorful drool-inducing HTML emails to tell them what to spend it on!
:)



-- 
Matthew Fuller (MF4839) |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unix Systems Administrator  |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Specializing in FreeBSD |http://www.over-yonder.net/

The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I
  haven't figured out how to light the middle yet