Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[David DeSimone]

Bruno Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Is it possible to implement opening a Netscape window upon clicks onto
> http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

Sure!

> What's your opinion?

Please have the code written up and bug-tested by this weekend.  :)


On a more serious note:  Mouse-clicks already have a defined meaning
within xterm:  They are used for cutting, selecting, and pasting text! 
So how is your xterm supposed to know when you're clicking in order to
select some text, or clicking in order to pass the information to the
inner program, Mutt, so that it can search for a URL to go to?

In the old, old days of Mutt, it supported mouse-clicks, not for URL's,
but for simple message navigation.  Most everyone hated it.  It was
removed.  Basically, people realized that they wanted the cut-n-paste
functionality a lot more than they wanted the point-n-click functionality.

-- 
David DeSimone   | "The doctrine of human equality reposes on this:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  that there is no man really clever who has not
Hewlett-Packard  |  found that he is stupid." -- Gilbert K. Chesterson
UX WTEC Engineer |PGP: 5B 47 34 9F 3B 9A B0 0D  AB A6 15 F1 BB BE 8C 44

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Mikko Hänninen]

Bruno Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on Wed, 27 Oct 1999:
> Is it possible to implement opening a Netscape window upon clicks onto http- 
> and ftp-Links in mutt?

You probably know of this, but just in case you don't, Mutt comes with
support for starting a browser on links in an email message.  The
functionality has been separated into a separate program called urlview
(which you can get from the same place as Mutt sources, I forget the URL
right now).  After you've installed urlview, you can just press ^B and
you get a list of URLs from the email message, and can use the cursor
keys and enter to select the one you'd like to view to start your
favourite browser.  It's not mouse-operated, but rather nice anyway.


Mikko
-- 
// Mikko Hänninen, aka. Wizzu  //  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  //  http://www.iki.fi/wiz/
// The Corrs list maintainer  //   net.freak  //   DALnet IRC operator /
// Interests: roleplaying, Linux, the Net, fantasy & scifi, the Corrs /
Do wizards run spell checkers?

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Rob Reid]

At 12:29 PM EDT on October 27 David DeSimone sent off:
> Bruno Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Is it possible to implement opening a Netscape window upon clicks onto
> > http- and ftp-Links in mutt?
> 
> Sure!
> 
> On a more serious note:  Mouse-clicks already have a defined meaning
> within xterm:  They are used for cutting, selecting, and pasting text! 
> So how is your xterm supposed to know when you're clicking in order to
> select some text, or clicking in order to pass the information to the
> inner program, Mutt, so that it can search for a URL to go to?

I use rxvt 2.4.5 patched with something called "dingus", or active-rxvt.  It
recognizes regular expressions (like URLs) and runs a user defined action, like
netscape -remote, or gv for .ps files, etc, when the RIGHT mouse button is
pressed.  It works really well (i.e. much better than urlview), and doesn't
interfere with selecting (left button) or pasting (middle button).  Am I
missing something that the right button would normally do?  Cutting is
unneccessary in mutt, anyway.

Unfortunately applying the patch to newer versions of rxvt was so difficult
that I gave up.  I think the dingus author is working on a gnome terminal or
something like that now, that will include dingus, but I wish rxvt/etc would
incorporate it as a default, or at least a default option.

I should note that it only fully works in Linux or other OSes using /proc.
It's usable in Solaris for URLs, though.

-- 
FUN is never having to say you're SUSHI!!  - Yow!
Robert I. Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://astro.utoronto.ca/~reid/
PGP Key: http://astro.utoronto.ca/~reid/pgp.html

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Bruno Daniel]

Hi mates

> On a more serious note:  Mouse-clicks already have a defined meaning
> within xterm:  They are used for cutting, selecting, and pasting text! 
> So how is your xterm supposed to know when you're clicking in order to
> select some text, or clicking in order to pass the information to the
> inner program, Mutt, so that it can search for a URL to go to?
> 
> In the old, old days of Mutt, it supported mouse-clicks, not for URL's,
> but for simple message navigation.  Most everyone hated it.  It was
> removed.  Basically, people realized that they wanted the cut-n-paste
> functionality a lot more than they wanted the point-n-click functionality.

Ok you're right, that's a problem. Midnight commander solves it by allowing 
cut and paste by holding the shift key during selection.
We could do it the other way round: normal clicks for selection and Shift-Click
on an URL for opening netscape windows.

Yours sincerely
  Bruno

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Telsa Gwynne]

On Wed, Oct 27, 1999 at 05:33:24PM +0200 or thereabouts, Bruno Daniel wrote:
> Is it possible to implement opening a Netscape window upon clicks onto http- 
> and ftp-Links in mutt? 
[snip] 
> What's your opinion?

I have read David DeSimone's reply and I think he's absolutely right
about mouse-clicks being better-suited to cut and paste than other
functions, but if you simply must have this functionality, you might 
consider installing the latest version of Gnome ("October Gnome", 1.0.53), 
which has this ability in its gnome-terminals, and read mutt in a
gnome-terminal. It's supposed to be an xterm emulator, but it has a
few additional features...

And the one I'm thinking of is that with the latest version of
Gnome, when the mouse is moved over a URL in a gnome-terminal,
the URL (for ftp, http, etc) becomes underlined whilst the mouse is
on it. And if you hold the control key down and click the mouse,
out opens a Netscape window and it displays that URL for you.

I can see this feature will both appeal and appal :) However, I
don't think mutt really needs it. urlview is entirely adequate --
and doesn't assume you're running X, either.

Telsa.

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On Wed, Oct 27, 1999 at 11:29:41 -0500, David DeSimone wrote:
> On a more serious note:  Mouse-clicks already have a defined meaning
> within xterm:  They are used for cutting, selecting, and pasting text! 
> So how is your xterm supposed to know when you're clicking in order to
> select some text, or clicking in order to pass the information to the
> inner program, Mutt, so that it can search for a URL to go to?

IIRC, when I had click support with Tin, I had to use the Shift key
to select text.

> In the old, old days of Mutt, it supported mouse-clicks, not for URL's,
> but for simple message navigation.  Most everyone hated it.  It was
> removed.  Basically, people realized that they wanted the cut-n-paste
> functionality a lot more than they wanted the point-n-click functionality.

IMHO, a shift-click functionality over a URL would be very useful,
as you can still have the standard select feature.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - PhD student in Computer Science
Web:  or  - 100%
validated HTML - Acorn Risc PC, Yellow Pig 17, Championnat International
des Jeux Mathématiques et Logiques, TETRHEX, etc.

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Jan Houtsma]

On Wed, Oct 27, 1999 at 12:37:59PM -0500, Timothy Ball wrote:
> If you use gnome-terminal, if you hold down the  key whilst
> clicking on a url gnome-terminal will open a fresh copy of netscape w/
> the url... Not just that but gnome-terminal understands Drag and drop of
> url's... very cool.

Hmm. i tried that. In gnome-terminal all URLs lighten up when i move
over them with the mousepointer. But clicking them (with or without CTRL)
does absolutely nothing here. Did u configure something for gnome-terminal
to get that behaviour when u click on it??
thanks,

jan

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Bruno Daniel]

Hi Rob

> I use rxvt 2.4.5 patched with something called "dingus", or active-rxvt.  It
> recognizes regular expressions (like URLs) and runs a user defined action, like
> netscape -remote, or gv for .ps files, etc, when the RIGHT mouse button is
> pressed.  It works really well (i.e. much better than urlview), and doesn't
> interfere with selecting (left button) or pasting (middle button).  Am I
> missing something that the right button would normally do?  Cutting is
> unneccessary in mutt, anyway.
Hey cool! Where can I download that version of rxvt?

> Unfortunately applying the patch to newer versions of rxvt was so difficult
> that I gave up.  
:(

Yours sincerely
  Bruno

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Mikko Hänninen]

David DeSimone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on Wed, 27 Oct 1999:
> > What's your opinion?
> 
> Please have the code written up and bug-tested by this weekend.  :)

I'd be more gracious and give the guy until the NEXT week's end for
bugtesting.  But an initial code version for this weekend is indeed
appropriate. :-)

> On a more serious note:  Mouse-clicks already have a defined meaning
> within xterm:  They are used for cutting, selecting, and pasting text! 
> So how is your xterm supposed to know when you're clicking in order to
> select some text, or clicking in order to pass the information to the
> inner program, Mutt, so that it can search for a URL to go to?

I have no idea how xterm is supposed to know this, but apparently it's
still a supported feature.  I know because lynx does this (version
2.8.1rel.2).  I find it actually very annoying when I can't copy/paste
to/from an xterm window running lynx!  Though I suppose it does make
selecting links a bit easier...  But if I wanted point-and-click, I'd
be using Netscape.  Anyway, the moment I quit lynx, the xterm reverts
to the normal mouse behaviour.

Hmm, yes, lynx seems to be compiled with slang.  And the mouse events
get captured even when the lynx session is via ssh to another system,
in a locally started xterm.

> In the old, old days of Mutt, it supported mouse-clicks, not for URL's,
> but for simple message navigation.  Most everyone hated it.  It was
> removed.  Basically, people realized that they wanted the cut-n-paste
> functionality a lot more than they wanted the point-n-click functionality.

I agree.  I wonder if it would be possible to have this turned on/off
with a variable though, that would let those who want it enable it, and
those who hate it keep it off?  And of course, play weird tricks like
having copy/paste enabled only for some folders or recipients. :-)


Mikko,
who definitely wants to keep the current xterm copy/paste functionality
-- 
// Mikko Hänninen, aka. Wizzu  //  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  //  http://www.iki.fi/wiz/
// The Corrs list maintainer  //   net.freak  //   DALnet IRC operator /
// Interests: roleplaying, Linux, the Net, fantasy & scifi, the Corrs /
ST, DS9: FRofA #1: Once you have their money ... never give it back.

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[David DeSimone]

Rob Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I use rxvt 2.4.5 patched with something called "dingus", or
> active-rxvt.

I never could get that working.

> It works really well (i.e.  much better than urlview), and doesn't
> interfere with selecting (left button) or pasting (middle button).  Am
> I missing something that the right button would normally do?

Normally the right-button is used to *extend* the current selection. 
For instance, you select some text with the left-button, and then if you
decide you really wanted more, instead of reselecting, you can click or
drag with the right-button to modify the selection.  I use it on a very
occasional basis.

> Unfortunately applying the patch to newer versions of rxvt was so
> difficult that I gave up.

Indeed, on HP-UX I was never able to get past the compile/patching
stage, so I gave up, too.

> I should note that it only fully works in Linux or other OSes using
> /proc.  It's usable in Solaris for URLs, though.

Hmm, curious, why is /proc required?  Oh well..

Mikko Hänninen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have no idea how xterm is supposed to know this, but apparently it's
> still a supported feature.  I know because lynx does this (version
> 2.8.1rel.2).

Yes, an application can put the xterm into a special mode in which
mouse-clicks are reported to it.  Slang supports this, but I'm not sure
if Ncurses does.

> I find it actually very annoying when I can't copy/paste to/from an
> xterm window running lynx!

Actually, you can; xterm allows the normal cut/paste actions to be
performed, if you hold the SHIFT key.  Still annoying to have to
remember that.  :)

Bruno Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Midnight commander solves it by allowing cut and paste by holding the
> shift key during selection.

Actually it's xterm that is allowing that behavior.  But I suppose that,
in MC, you are more likely to want to click on something than select
some text.  In a mail-reader program like Mutt, the opposite is probably
true.

> We could do it the other way round:  normal clicks for selection and
> Shift-Click on an URL for opening netscape windows.

That sounds nice, but xterm doesn't work that way, to my knowledge.


At any rate, a dingus or gnome-terminal type solution seems to be the
best one I've seen.  Modifying Mutt doesn't seem like the best way to
solve this problem.

-- 
David DeSimone   | "The doctrine of human equality reposes on this:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  that there is no man really clever who has not
Hewlett-Packard  |  found that he is stupid." -- Gilbert K. Chesterson
UX WTEC Engineer |PGP: 5B 47 34 9F 3B 9A B0 0D  AB A6 15 F1 BB BE 8C 44

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Timothy Ball]

If you use gnome-terminal, if you hold down the  key whilst
clicking on a url gnome-terminal will open a fresh copy of netscape w/
the url... Not just that but gnome-terminal understands Drag and drop of
url's... very cool.

--timball

-- 
Send mail with subject "send pgp key" for public key.
pub  1024R/CFF85605 1999-06-10 Timothy L. Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Key fingerprint = 8A 8E 64 D6 21 C0 90 29  9F D6 1E DC F8 18 CB CD

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Rob Reid]

At  4:11 PM EDT on October 27 David DeSimone sent off:
> Rob Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I use rxvt 2.4.5 patched with something called "dingus", or
> > active-rxvt.
> 
> Normally the right-button is used to *extend* the current selection. 
> For instance, you select some text with the left-button, and then if you
> decide you really wanted more, instead of reselecting, you can click or
> drag with the right-button to modify the selection.  I use it on a very
> occasional basis.

Thanks David, and Mikko.
 
> > I should note that it only fully works in Linux or other OSes using
> > /proc.  It's usable in Solaris for URLs, though.
> 
> Hmm, curious, why is /proc required?  Oh well..

Upon reviewing, Solaris also uses /proc, but in an incompatible way.  /proc is
used to get the current working directory of the process it's watching.  That's
needed for tricks like gv on *.ps and other file/directory tricks, but not for
URLs.
  
> Actually, you can; xterm allows the normal cut/paste actions to be
> performed, if you hold the SHIFT key.  Still annoying to have to
> remember that.  :)

Yes, and that's a big reason why I'm sticking with my dingified rxvt-2.4.5
instead of "upgrading" to a gnome-terminal, which I think requires shift-right
mouse button to do any magic.  Note that it also works with old eterms and gpm,
so it is NOT X specific.  (I guess you could run lynx in another virtual
terminal...)

I'm making it available here:
http://astro.utoronto.ca/~reid/software/active-1.0b4-SNAP2.tar.gz

I think it includes the code for rxvt-2.4.5, but no guarantees.

And here's my lobotomized-but-still-has-the-most-important-feature version for
everything but Linux:

http://astro.utoronto.ca/~reid/software/unlinux-active-1.0b4.tar.gz

Here's some more on dingus outside Linux:

At  3:19 PM EST on March 13 Robert Reid sent off:
> At  6:45 AM EST on March 12 David Thorburn-Gundlach sent off:
> > % At 11:22 PM EST on March  4 Matt Hawkins sent off:
> > % > 
> > % > You need to play with dingus then.
> > % > 
> > % >   http://dingus.mit.edu/
> > % 
> > % Hey, that's great!  Thanks.  It needed a bit of a lobotomy to work
> > % with Solaris though.. 
> > 
> > Well, I'm a Solaris user, too..  Could you make available the
> > modified code, or patches, so that I can try it out?
> 
> Sure, here it is.  First get and untar the dingus source.  Replace the
> files in dingus/src with the ones in the tar file I'm giving you.  The
> problems were:
> 
> 1. termios.h doesn't seem to work on Solaris when  is
>also included.
> 
> 2. Solaris's /proc isn't laid out the same way as Linux's, and I
>couldn't find a easy way of getting the current working directory
>of the current process.  There's a command called pwdx which might
>work, but I couldn't think of a better way of using that than
> 
>   system("pwdx | ~/.dinguspipeX");
>   fscanf(pointer_to_dinguspipeX, "%s", cwd);
> 
>where ~/.dinguspipeX would be a named pipe with X = number of this
>particular rxvt instance.  Let me know if you have a better idea.
> 
> 3. (Cosmetic) Dingus was printing diagnostics about everything it did,
>and I changed it to it now prints to stderr (which I reroute to
>/dev/null when I start rxvt.)
> 
> The main effect of the lobotomy is that dingus no longer tries to get
> the cwd of the active process, which means that suggested tags like cd
> or lpr won't work unless you're in the same directory as whre you
> started.  Fortunately URLs use absolute path names, and it works great
> with mutt.
> 
> Oh yeah...I think I had to change the quoting in the openURL(${})
> parts of .active.tags.X.
> 
>   Enjoy!
> 


-- 
dilemma: An unproved lemma.
Robert I. Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://astro.utoronto.ca/~reid/
PGP Key: http://astro.utoronto.ca/~reid/pgp.html

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Bruno Daniel]

Hi Rob

> I'm making it available here:
> http://astro.utoronto.ca/~reid/software/active-1.0b4-SNAP2.tar.gz

> I think it includes the code for rxvt-2.4.5, but no guarantees.

Thanks a lot! It works! 

> > Enjoy!

:)

Yours sincerely
  Bruno

Re: Clicking http- and ftp-Links in mutt?

[Klaus Wacker]

On Wed, Oct 27, 1999 at 11:29:41AM -0500, David DeSimone wrote:
> Bruno Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Is it possible to implement opening a Netscape window upon clicks onto
> > http- and ftp-Links in mutt?
> 
> Sure!
> 
> > What's your opinion?
> 
> Please have the code written up and bug-tested by this weekend.  :)
> 
> 
> On a more serious note:  Mouse-clicks already have a defined meaning
> within xterm:  They are used for cutting, selecting, and pasting text! 
> So how is your xterm supposed to know when you're clicking in order to
> select some text, or clicking in order to pass the information to the
> inner program, Mutt, so that it can search for a URL to go to?
> 

And you can use the cutting, selecting, and pasting text functionality
to click a URL. Select the URL with left and right mouse button in the
xterm running mutt and "paste" that into an open Netscape window. I
have urlview configured, but I use mostly the cut and paste method.
The disadvantage of urlview, in my opinion, is that it shows only the
URLs it finds in a message, but not any context.

-- 
Klaus Wacker  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Experimentelle Physik V   http://www.physik.uni-dortmund.de/~wacker
Universitaet Dortmund Tel.: +49 (231) 755 3587
D-44221 Dortmund  Fax:  +49 (231) 755 3569

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