Re: [neonixie-l] Large tubes - advice needed for not getting swindled on ebay

[jb-electronics]

Hello Steve,

welcome to the expensive Nixie world :-)

Seriously, the seller "geoffnel" is known to sell a LOT of Panaplex 
tubes, and I know he has a vast stock of NIB ZM1040 tubes. Why not email 
him directly (using the Ebay messaging system) and ask for a price of 
new ZM1040s?


$50 for a Tesla ZM1040 is way to much, as actually is the price for 
the IN-18 for my taste. You will sometimes find ZM1040s listed at a 
lower price, but sadly, the IN-18 seem to be at a constant high. It is 
almost as if there was some kind of "East-European-Nixie-Tube-Cartel".


The bottom line: If you have time, wait for a nice auction for ZM1040s, 
or hope that IN-18 tubes will drop in price.


But Shane is right: For a beginner a tube like the IN-14 ist very nice. 
In fact, I still like it very much.


Jens

Am 04.11.2010 03:53, schrieb Steve Scorn:

Dear group;

As per most starter nixie clock builders; I've been looking at IN-18
size tubes, approx 40mm high, and my God they are expensive!

I've found a listing for a Philips ZM1040 sold ex Russia on ebay:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ZM1040-TESLA-nixie-tube-red-1pc-/220690126115?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3362281523#ht_818wt_1139

$50! Does it make sense that a Philips (Dutch?) tube would be sold ex
Russia?

There is also this style of auction:


http://cgi.ebay.com/NIXIE-TUBE-Z566M-ZM-1040-SIMILAR-7-UNITS-USED-TESTED-/270658049958?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f047a17a6#ht_500wt_1156

Very low on detail but not too crazy a price. 7 for $120 = $17 a tube.
Too good to be true? Old tubes sold as NOS?

All help appreciated.

Steve



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Re: [neonixie-l] Large tubes - advice needed for not getting swindled on ebay

[Shane Ellis]

If this is your first, and you're looking to get your feet wet, why not try
an easier, cheaper tube, like the IN-14.  direct solder, or wire pins, no
socket, side display, and much MUCH cheaper than IN-18s

I'm new to this, but these are what I have been using.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Steve Scorn  wrote:

> Dear group;
>
> As per most starter nixie clock builders; I've been looking at IN-18
> size tubes, approx 40mm high, and my God they are expensive!
>
> I've found a listing for a Philips ZM1040 sold ex Russia on ebay:
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ZM1040-TESLA-nixie-tube-red-1pc-/220690126115?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3362281523#ht_818wt_1139
>
> $50! Does it make sense that a Philips (Dutch?) tube would be sold ex
> Russia?
>
> There is also this style of auction:
>
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/NIXIE-TUBE-Z566M-ZM-1040-SIMILAR-7-UNITS-USED-TESTED-/270658049958?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f047a17a6#ht_500wt_1156
>
> Very low on detail but not too crazy a price. 7 for $120 = $17 a tube.
> Too good to be true? Old tubes sold as NOS?
>
> All help appreciated.
>
> Steve
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Large tubes - advice needed for not getting swindled on ebay

[Michail1]

Yup, the IN-18's are expensive.   Almost an investment.  I  bought those 
and stock in microsoft as well.  I think I did better on the  IN-18s.
 
Shopping on ebay is your lowest price.  You can expect the $120  auction to 
go up, but not by to much since they are listed as "used".  New  set of 7 
is more likely to go to about $200 (little less).
 
A clock kit to run the tubes will be another $80.
 
So, a little savings over an IN-18 setup.
 
Really just a preference now.
 
Advice - Have money?  Buy a completed and tested clock with tubes from  a 
known seller.  :)
 
I have intimate knowledge of someone you can get tubes from.   heh.  But, 
several sellers on ebay have them and are reputable.  I do  like Pete's Kits 
seller - has both kits for IN-18 and ZM style.   So,  you can find a price 
deal on tubes, and then worry about the kit.  Time not  an issue, then bid on 
the auctions and get a better deal on the kit.  Worry  more about finding 
tubes that are good before you pick the clock kit.
 
Michail
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/3/2010 7:53:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
sskillc...@gmail.com writes:

Dear  group;

As per most starter nixie clock builders; I've been looking at  IN-18
size tubes, approx 40mm high, and my God they are  expensive!

I've found a listing for a Philips ZM1040 sold ex Russia on  ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ZM1040-TESLA-nixie-tube-red-1pc-/220690126115?pt=LH_Defa
ultDomain_0&hash=item3362281523#ht_818wt_1139

$50!  Does it make sense that a Philips (Dutch?) tube would be sold  ex
Russia?

There is also this style of  auction:


http://cgi.ebay.com/NIXIE-TUBE-Z566M-ZM-1040-SIMILAR-7-UNITS-USED-TESTED-/27
0658049958?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f047a17a6#ht_500wt_1156

Very  low on detail but not too crazy a price. 7 for $120 = $17 a tube.
Too good  to be true? Old tubes sold as NOS?

All help  appreciated.

Steve

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[neonixie-l] Large tubes - advice needed for not getting swindled on ebay

[Steve Scorn]

Dear group;

As per most starter nixie clock builders; I've been looking at IN-18
size tubes, approx 40mm high, and my God they are expensive!

I've found a listing for a Philips ZM1040 sold ex Russia on ebay:

   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ZM1040-TESLA-nixie-tube-red-1pc-/220690126115?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3362281523#ht_818wt_1139

$50! Does it make sense that a Philips (Dutch?) tube would be sold ex
Russia?

There is also this style of auction:

 
http://cgi.ebay.com/NIXIE-TUBE-Z566M-ZM-1040-SIMILAR-7-UNITS-USED-TESTED-/270658049958?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f047a17a6#ht_500wt_1156

Very low on detail but not too crazy a price. 7 for $120 = $17 a tube.
Too good to be true? Old tubes sold as NOS?

All help appreciated.

Steve

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[Michail1]

Adam,
 
We are both in the same area (physically).  Maybe collab on the WWVB  might 
be in hand.
I did suggest it, because he said Arduino, and I have found plenty of  
online code specific to WWVB and Arduino.   But, like you, still a  work in 
progress as it sits powerless in front of me.
 
Also, I did get the bigger antenna.  6" long.   Also hungry  for power to 
be applied at some end.
I do agree on Seattle being bad for reception.  In fact, I just got  
Citizen to take back my $800 watch because it would not get the time (Citizen  
ATom).  Many times back to the shop and they even sent me a damn blue  antenna 
and told me I must sit the antenna between East and the  watch.   Uhhhg.   
Not spending that kind of money for a  watch that needs extra items / gadgets 
/ antenna / and magic to keep time.
 
Projects, projects.  What's the part number to buy some more time in  the 
day?
 
Michail  
 

In a message dated 11/3/2010 8:49:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
a...@jacobs.us writes:

-Adam



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[Adam Jacobs]

I second this. For the same money (cheap) you're looking at far greater 
accuracy than most crystal designs.
To me, being able to keep track of time while unplugged is a special 
design requirement that most clocks needn't have. If this is necessary, 
I usually go with a DS32khz & DS1307 & a button cell.
Regarding the WWVB idea, I bought one of these once for a clock (It's 
still sitting on the shelf half designed).. The first thing you need to 
know is that unless you live a lot closer to Denver than I do (I live in 
Seattle), you need to buy the longer loopstick antenna (and have room in 
your clock for it!). Loopstick antennas are directional, so you'll want 
to bear that in mind when you're positioning your clock. Also, since you 
will be picking up very faint LF, you'll need to be very cognizant of 
any QRM you're creating.. CRT's, switching supplies, etc.. You'll at 
least want a way to turn off all the noisy QRM that you are creating 
inside your clock. Also, since LF propagates primarily via groundwave, 
and groundwave works better at night, expect to be only able to debug 
your clock at night. (Later, your clock will sync at night only, which 
is fine). Don't expect to find a lot of community code already written 
for WWVB, but the protocol is readily available and you should be able 
to figure it out. I'm halfway into rebuilding a swan 500cx right now, 
and I'm elbow deep in a xbox 360 mod, but I'm thinking that after those 
I will get back to the WWVB project. It's kind of neat in an eclectic 
way, but I don't recommend it to anyone as a primary solution. I think 
that as others have written here, your time is valuable.. Just spend the 
extra $25 or so and put in a GPS receiver if you're wanting the clock to 
sync without intervention.


-Adam

Bill Esposito wrote:
The simplest and cheapest way to go is to use line frequency. Accurate 
within a couple of seconds over months and the cost of implimentation 
is: 


1. AC 9V wall wart.
2. 6 diodes.
3. 7805 regulator to you +5V for your micro.

connect the clock signal to your microcontroller and every time you 
see 60 pulses on your input pin (50 if you're not in North America), 
increment your seconds register.


Done.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM, > wrote:


Frank/Steve,
 
Another thought is adding a WWRB receiver.  $13 from Digikey. 
This way you are always accurate (or at least self fixing all the

time - and no need to worry about ever setting the time).
 
I bought two of them, but, I have to admit.  They aren't doing

very good since I still have them in their packaging.  heh.
 
Michail
 
 



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[Joe Croft]

I solved this by having an rtc on my clock (for setting the initial time on 
reset) which I update it's time every 5 minutes with what is on my clock. That 
way, it only drifts when I loose power.

I can almost have my cake and eat it too!

-joe

On Wednesday 03 November 2010 11:38:56 micha...@aol.com wrote:
> Agreed.  Unless your power goes out (often in my area).
> 
> Michail
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/3/2010 8:35:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> the...@gmail.com writes:
> 
> The  simplest and cheapest way to go is to use line frequency. Accurate
> within a  couple of seconds over months and the cost of implimentation is:
> 
> 
> 1. AC 9V wall wart.
> 2. 6 diodes.
> 3. 7805 regulator to you +5V for your micro.
> 
> 
> connect the clock signal to your microcontroller and every time you see  60
> pulses on your input pin (50 if you're not in North America), increment
> your seconds register.
> 
> 
> Done.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[Michail1]

Agreed.  Unless your power goes out (often in my area).
 
Michail  


 
In a message dated 11/3/2010 8:35:00 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
the...@gmail.com writes:

The  simplest and cheapest way to go is to use line frequency. Accurate 
within a  couple of seconds over months and the cost of implimentation is:   


1. AC 9V wall wart.
2. 6 diodes.
3. 7805 regulator to you +5V for your micro.


connect the clock signal to your microcontroller and every time you see  60 
pulses on your input pin (50 if you're not in North America), increment  
your seconds register.


Done.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[Bill Esposito]

The simplest and cheapest way to go is to use line frequency. Accurate
within a couple of seconds over months and the cost of implimentation is:

1. AC 9V wall wart.
2. 6 diodes.
3. 7805 regulator to you +5V for your micro.

connect the clock signal to your microcontroller and every time you see 60
pulses on your input pin (50 if you're not in North America), increment your
seconds register.

Done.

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:17 AM,  wrote:

>  Frank/Steve,
>
> Another thought is adding a WWRB receiver.  $13 from Digikey.  This way you
> are always accurate (or at least self fixing all the time - and no need to
> worry about ever setting the time).
>
> I bought two of them, but, I have to admit.  They aren't doing very good
> since I still have them in their packaging.  heh.
>
> Michail
>
>
>  In a message dated 11/3/2010 5:12:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> bemel...@franktechniek.nl writes:
>
> Doesn't that give you an inaccuracy of +/- 5ms on your 60 seconds
> measurement?
>
> Frank.
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[Michail1]

Frank/Steve,
 
Another thought is adding a WWRB receiver.  $13 from Digikey.   This way 
you are always accurate (or at least self fixing all the time - and no  need 
to worry about ever setting the time).
 
I bought two of them, but, I have to admit.  They aren't doing very  good 
since I still have them in their packaging.  heh.
 
Michail
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/3/2010 5:12:09 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
bemel...@franktechniek.nl writes:

Doesn't  that give you an inaccuracy of +/- 5ms on your 60 seconds  
measurement?

Frank.


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[neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[coggs]

> Doesn't that give you an inaccuracy of +/- 5ms on your 60 seconds
> measurement?

Correct which means worst case you could drift +/- 7 secs/day which
most would consider unreasonable.

If you upped from 100hz to 1khz then you'd reduce it to +/1 .5 ms per
minute which
would get you +/-.7sec/day worst case drift. Possibly reasonable for a
clock
with only 1 minute resolution.

You could also involve one of the Atmegas programmable timers and
temporarily
attach the 1pps calibration source to one timers control lines. You
might be
able to obtain even better results. You'd probably have to implement
the trim routine
in assembly code.

But Michail made a very good point. Perfecting the software could take
allot of time, and
even if you are coding to learn, you have to put a price on how much
time you spend
on what's only one aspect of getting your entire clock completed
..c
PS) I'm using a TXCO on my most recent clock :)

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[Frank Bemelman]

- Original Message - 
From: "coggs" 

To: "neonixie-l" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 12:04 PM
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate



I used to use a 1 pulse/second signal from a GPS receiver for the
calibration. I then wrote a calibration routine which would start a
counter in a 100hz interrupt service routine. I would count 60 pulses
from the GPS then stop the counter. Then I subtracted the counter from
6000 and that would be the number of clocks I would add or subtract to
per minute for my timekeeping.


Doesn't that give you an inaccuracy of +/- 5ms on your 60 seconds 
measurement?


Frank.


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[neonixie-l] Re: Keeping your clock accurate

[coggs]

Using a TXCO such as a DS1307 is by far the least muss and fuss. Stays
accurate to within a second or two per month, which is really
remarkable when you think about it.

That said, any properly designed (ie stable) quartz crystal oscillator
circuit should give you similar accuracy once it is calibrated to an
external source. You only need to do this once when per clock you
build at the time you build it.

I used to use a 1 pulse/second signal from a GPS receiver for the
calibration. I then wrote a calibration routine which would start a
counter in a 100hz interrupt service routine. I would count 60 pulses
from the GPS then stop the counter. Then I subtracted the counter from
6000 and that would be the number of clocks I would add or subtract to
per minute for my timekeeping.

This calibration approach might be appropriate for someone who likes
to code more than they like to solder, or wants the cost of the
hardware kept to a bare minimum; The TXCO can cost more than the
microcontroller !

..c

On Nov 2, 9:28 pm, Steve  wrote:
> Group;
>
> I would love to hear your suggestions on the best way to keep a
> microprocessor controlled clock accurate.
>
> The micro platform I'm using is an Arduino; which has a crystal
> bundled onto the board, but it's not near accurate enough for a clock.
> From my reading of this group there are RTC chips, TXCO crystals and
> everything in between. There's the Taylor Edge RTC board, the
> ChronoDot, the Maxim RTC1307 IC; so many choices!
>
> I only need accurate time keeping. This is for an HH:MM clock, no date
> functions etc, so I'd like to keep it as simple (and cheap) as
> possible.
>
> Thank you in advance. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
>
> Steve

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