[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[dr pepper]

I've not heard of sleeping sickness till now, but I think I've seen it
on a couple of tube I have, they dont work untill I crank up the
volatge to the point where all the others are way too bright.
Like you I kept them in case they can be sorted, I'll put them on my
hv supply and cook them in and see if that sorts them out.

On 10 Dec, 21:37, Michel  wrote:
> > I can't bear to throw away the ones that
> > don't work, as they might be valuable to someone after the thousands that do
> > work are gone.
>
> > --
> > David Forbes, Tucson, AZ
>
> Yes, I know what you're saying, I even keep the cracked tubes :-)
> although they are completely useless to me, maybe one day someone
> might like to have them.
>
> Michel

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Michel]

> I can't bear to throw away the ones that
> don't work, as they might be valuable to someone after the thousands that do
> work are gone.
>
> --
> David Forbes, Tucson, AZ

Yes, I know what you're saying, I even keep the cracked tubes :-)
although they are completely useless to me, maybe one day someone
might like to have them.

Michel

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[David Forbes]

On 12/10/2012 1:28 PM, Michel wrote:

Hello Ron,

I see, so actually what you're saying is if they don't work properly
straight away, it is better not to use them at all. That's what I am
doing right now :-). I'll still give the AC a go with some of them,
and then see if the problem will return afterwards. It's quite easy to
test it that way, but then I won't need to design a complete test
circuit.

Michel


I have a couple little drawers full of 5870 tubes that don't work properly, and 
a few thousand 5870 tubes that do work. I can't bear to throw away the ones that 
don't work, as they might be valuable to someone after the thousands that do 
work are gone.


--
David Forbes, Tucson, AZ

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Michel]

Hello Ron,

I see, so actually what you're saying is if they don't work properly
straight away, it is better not to use them at all. That's what I am
doing right now :-). I'll still give the AC a go with some of them,
and then see if the problem will return afterwards. It's quite easy to
test it that way, but then I won't need to design a complete test
circuit.

Michel




On Dec 11, 12:53 am, glasslinger  wrote:
> Hello!
> If the tubes are working fine I would just use them. This is a way to
> salvage finicky tubes that you would be not using. I would bet that these
> tubes were the result of poor production quality control since there are so
> many that never develop problems. The thing to remember too is that all
> current run through a tube uses up some of its ultimate life. Thus whether
> regenerating tubes or using them in a clok or other project apply only what
> current is necessary so you preserve as much life as possible. I have found
> that it is not practical to rebuild nixie tubes. The ones I have rebuilt
> develop problems after a few dozen hours of use, and I have not found
> exactly why.
>
> ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 10, 2:56 am, glasslinger  wrote:
> > > Hello!
>
> > > Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign
> > transformer
> > > with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light
> > up
> > > using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the
> > poisoning.
> > > Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot
> > > though. A few milliamps is enough.
>
> > > ron

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[glasslinger]

Hello!
If the tubes are working fine I would just use them. This is a way to 
salvage finicky tubes that you would be not using. I would bet that these 
tubes were the result of poor production quality control since there are so 
many that never develop problems. The thing to remember too is that all 
current run through a tube uses up some of its ultimate life. Thus whether 
regenerating tubes or using them in a clok or other project apply only what 
current is necessary so you preserve as much life as possible. I have found 
that it is not practical to rebuild nixie tubes. The ones I have rebuilt 
develop problems after a few dozen hours of use, and I have not found 
exactly why. 

ron

>
>
> On Dec 10, 2:56 am, glasslinger  wrote: 
> > Hello! 
> > 
> > Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign 
> transformer 
> > with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light 
> up 
> > using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the 
> poisoning. 
> > Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot 
> > though. A few milliamps is enough. 
> > 
> > ron 
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Michel]

Thanks Ron,

Would you recommend doing this for all tubes or only the ones that
show a problem? I just wonder if perhaps it would be good to do this
procedure anyways, then I can make a test circuit using some triacs.

Michel



On Dec 10, 2:56 am, glasslinger  wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign transformer
> with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light up
> using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the poisoning.
> Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot
> though. A few milliamps is enough.
>
> ron

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[glasslinger]

Hello!

Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign transformer 
with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light up 
using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the poisoning. 
Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot 
though. A few milliamps is enough.

ron

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Michel]

I haven't run them yet on elevated currents, I'll give that a try
later on. At the moment it is easier to just replace the tube and give
it a mark.

I also have 1 tube that shows another interesting phenomena. I can
light up the decimal point with any digit except number 1. The decimal
point fades to almost invisible when I light digit 1, while with all
others it shows just fine. I find it particularly strange because
digit 1 is I think the furthest digit away from the decimal point.

Michel





On Dec 9, 5:56 am, Quixotic Nixotic  wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2012, at 15:58, threeneurons wrote:
>
> > "Sleeping Sickness". A form of cathode poisoning, from not being powered 
> > for some time. It appears that sitting idle for too long, effects the 
> > surface of the metal cathodes. This effects the work function, and they 
> > light up, unevenly. Its a problem for all cold cathode tubes. Did you run 
> > them for a few hours, or so, at elevated current ? This usually cures the 
> > problem. But not always.
>
> I have today run a pair of new Burroughs B5092 round top view jobbies and 
> they both had cathodes that refused to light. In one or two cases the legs 
> would glow instead of the digit. A couple of digits looked plain dead. After 
> poking about lighting various digits they have all woken up and started to 
> fire normally, which is a relief. Trying to fire them later they were again 
> sluggish for the first few attempts to light. I am sure they will start 
> behaving better once they are run in.
>
> John S

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Quixotic Nixotic]

On 8 Dec 2012, at 15:58, threeneurons wrote:

> "Sleeping Sickness". A form of cathode poisoning, from not being powered for 
> some time. It appears that sitting idle for too long, effects the surface of 
> the metal cathodes. This effects the work function, and they light up, 
> unevenly. Its a problem for all cold cathode tubes. Did you run them for a 
> few hours, or so, at elevated current ? This usually cures the problem. But 
> not always. 

I have today run a pair of new Burroughs B5092 round top view jobbies and they 
both had cathodes that refused to light. In one or two cases the legs would 
glow instead of the digit. A couple of digits looked plain dead. After poking 
about lighting various digits they have all woken up and started to fire 
normally, which is a relief. Trying to fire them later they were again sluggish 
for the first few attempts to light. I am sure they will start behaving better 
once they are run in.

John S

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[threeneurons]

"Sleeping Sickness". A form of cathode poisoning, from not being powered 
for some time. It appears that sitting idle for too long, effects the 
surface of the metal cathodes. This effects the work function, and they 
light up, unevenly. Its a problem for all cold cathode tubes. Did you run 
them for a few hours, or so, at elevated current ? This usually cures the 
problem. But not always. 

... a few tubes that have a piece of one cathode segment not lighting up.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Michel]

Interesting Martin, it seems to me that after manufacturing, these
nixie tubes did not undergo the same failure tests as modern
electronic parts. I find quite a few tubes that have a piece of one
cathode segment not lighting up. Is that because they're so old or has
that never been tested when they were packed?

Michel



On Dec 8, 12:29 am, Dekatron42  wrote:
> Michel, I am glad that it worked for you to hit it with a screwdriver!
>
> I have one Z504S which has four small pieces of wire inside the glass
> envelope, the longest one is 3mm and the shortest one is 0.5mm - I bought
> four Z504S's on eBay and they all had a few loose wires inside. These only
> work upside down as the wires then collect at the top of the glass
> envelope, any other way and the wires fall down between the pins and result
> in shorts or "neon" lamps if they fall in the wrong place.
>
> /Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:44:12 AM UTC+1, Michel wrote:
> > I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your
> > link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been
> > the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I
> > don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it
> > could also be too small to see
>
> > Michel

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Dekatron42]

Michel, I am glad that it worked for you to hit it with a screwdriver!
 
I have one Z504S which has four small pieces of wire inside the glass 
envelope, the longest one is 3mm and the shortest one is 0.5mm - I bought 
four Z504S's on eBay and they all had a few loose wires inside. These only 
work upside down as the wires then collect at the top of the glass 
envelope, any other way and the wires fall down between the pins and result 
in shorts or "neon" lamps if they fall in the wrong place.
 
/Martin
 

On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:44:12 AM UTC+1, Michel wrote:

> I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your 
> link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been 
> the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I 
> don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it 
> could also be too small to see 
>
> Michel 
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Michel]

I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your
link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been
the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I
don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it
could also be too small to see

Michel



On Dec 7, 7:24 pm, Dekatron42  wrote:
> I've had problems with swarf and small cut off pieces of electrodes inside
> some Nixies and also Dekatrons, this has mostly happened tubes manufactured
> by Mullard. I also read on another forum that this happened to a lot of the
> Anita Calculators which used Mullard manufactured ZM1080's, here: 
> *http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142*.
> In some Dekatrons the loose pins could be shaken around, but in some cases
> I had to hit them hard, after they had formed a short to get them loose
> again. Sometimes there were burn marks left which meant that there was an
> occasional flash over and in some cases there was a permanent path for the
> current to pass through. I've had this problem with Z504S and Z505S plus
> the ZM1050/Z550M.
>
> /Martin

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Dekatron42]

I've had problems with swarf and small cut off pieces of electrodes inside 
some Nixies and also Dekatrons, this has mostly happened tubes manufactured 
by Mullard. I also read on another forum that this happened to a lot of the 
Anita Calculators which used Mullard manufactured ZM1080's, here: *
http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142*.
 
In some Dekatrons the loose pins could be shaken around, but in some cases 
I had to hit them hard, after they had formed a short to get them loose 
again. Sometimes there were burn marks left which meant that there was an 
occasional flash over and in some cases there was a permanent path for the 
current to pass through. I've had this problem with Z504S and Z505S plus 
the ZM1050/Z550M.
 
/Martin

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Dekatron42]

I've had problems with swarf and small cut off pieces of electrodes inside 
some Nixies and also Dekatrons, this has mostly happened tubes 
manufactured by Mullard. I also read on another forum that this happened to 
a lot of the Anita Calculators which used Mullard manufactured ZM1080's, 
here: http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142. In some 
Dekatrons the loose pins could be shaken around, but in some cases I had 
to hit them hard, after they had formed a short to get them loose again. 
Sometimes there were burn marks left which meant that there was an 
occasional flash over and in some cases there was a permanent path for the 
current to pass through. I've had this problem with Z504S and Z505S plus 
the ZM1050/Z550M.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[Michel]

Some time ago I read that it would be good practice to let each
cathode lit at maximum rated current for about 2 minutes, I can't find
that page no more so I am not too sure about the reasoning behind it.
If metal sputters are a cause of the problem, it could more likely
show up in these first 2 minutes of maximum drive I guess.

Putting the tubes in sockets would be an advantage in this case. I am
actually surprised how easy it is to change a faulty (or broken) tube,
it takes less effort than I had expected. It's quite easy to heat up
all the legs together, take the tube out and then use some wick to
empty the holes. Crucial here is to use a solder that has lots of
flux. My board setup is different from yours, so sockets would simply
not fit.

Michel





On Dec 7, 5:00 pm, threeneurons  wrote:
> You just got unlucky. The metal that sputters off the cathodes, formed
> crude metal film resistors; partial short.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes

[threeneurons]

You just got unlucky. The metal that sputters off the cathodes, formed 
crude metal film resistors; partial short.

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