[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Hello Ron, I see, so actually what you're saying is if they don't work properly straight away, it is better not to use them at all. That's what I am doing right now :-). I'll still give the AC a go with some of them, and then see if the problem will return afterwards. It's quite easy to test it that way, but then I won't need to design a complete test circuit. Michel On Dec 11, 12:53 am, glasslinger rons...@att.net wrote: Hello! If the tubes are working fine I would just use them. This is a way to salvage finicky tubes that you would be not using. I would bet that these tubes were the result of poor production quality control since there are so many that never develop problems. The thing to remember too is that all current run through a tube uses up some of its ultimate life. Thus whether regenerating tubes or using them in a clok or other project apply only what current is necessary so you preserve as much life as possible. I have found that it is not practical to rebuild nixie tubes. The ones I have rebuilt develop problems after a few dozen hours of use, and I have not found exactly why. ron On Dec 10, 2:56 am, glasslinger rons...@att.net wrote: Hello! Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign transformer with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light up using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the poisoning. Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot though. A few milliamps is enough. ron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
On 12/10/2012 1:28 PM, Michel wrote: Hello Ron, I see, so actually what you're saying is if they don't work properly straight away, it is better not to use them at all. That's what I am doing right now :-). I'll still give the AC a go with some of them, and then see if the problem will return afterwards. It's quite easy to test it that way, but then I won't need to design a complete test circuit. Michel I have a couple little drawers full of 5870 tubes that don't work properly, and a few thousand 5870 tubes that do work. I can't bear to throw away the ones that don't work, as they might be valuable to someone after the thousands that do work are gone. -- David Forbes, Tucson, AZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
I can't bear to throw away the ones that don't work, as they might be valuable to someone after the thousands that do work are gone. -- David Forbes, Tucson, AZ Yes, I know what you're saying, I even keep the cracked tubes :-) although they are completely useless to me, maybe one day someone might like to have them. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
I've not heard of sleeping sickness till now, but I think I've seen it on a couple of tube I have, they dont work untill I crank up the volatge to the point where all the others are way too bright. Like you I kept them in case they can be sorted, I'll put them on my hv supply and cook them in and see if that sorts them out. On 10 Dec, 21:37, Michel mic...@xiac.com wrote: I can't bear to throw away the ones that don't work, as they might be valuable to someone after the thousands that do work are gone. -- David Forbes, Tucson, AZ Yes, I know what you're saying, I even keep the cracked tubes :-) although they are completely useless to me, maybe one day someone might like to have them. Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
I haven't run them yet on elevated currents, I'll give that a try later on. At the moment it is easier to just replace the tube and give it a mark. I also have 1 tube that shows another interesting phenomena. I can light up the decimal point with any digit except number 1. The decimal point fades to almost invisible when I light digit 1, while with all others it shows just fine. I find it particularly strange because digit 1 is I think the furthest digit away from the decimal point. Michel On Dec 9, 5:56 am, Quixotic Nixotic nixci...@jsdesign.co.uk wrote: On 8 Dec 2012, at 15:58, threeneurons wrote: Sleeping Sickness. A form of cathode poisoning, from not being powered for some time. It appears that sitting idle for too long, effects the surface of the metal cathodes. This effects the work function, and they light up, unevenly. Its a problem for all cold cathode tubes. Did you run them for a few hours, or so, at elevated current ? This usually cures the problem. But not always. I have today run a pair of new Burroughs B5092 round top view jobbies and they both had cathodes that refused to light. In one or two cases the legs would glow instead of the digit. A couple of digits looked plain dead. After poking about lighting various digits they have all woken up and started to fire normally, which is a relief. Trying to fire them later they were again sluggish for the first few attempts to light. I am sure they will start behaving better once they are run in. John S -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Hello! Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign transformer with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light up using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the poisoning. Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot though. A few milliamps is enough. ron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/x_5SnVwUgYYJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Thanks Ron, Would you recommend doing this for all tubes or only the ones that show a problem? I just wonder if perhaps it would be good to do this procedure anyways, then I can make a test circuit using some triacs. Michel On Dec 10, 2:56 am, glasslinger rons...@att.net wrote: Hello! Try lighting them up using AC for an hour or two. A small sign transformer with a variac works fine. This will fire the segments that don't light up using DC, and will bake off the mercury products that cause the poisoning. Do not run so much current through the segment that it turns red hot though. A few milliamps is enough. ron -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Interesting Martin, it seems to me that after manufacturing, these nixie tubes did not undergo the same failure tests as modern electronic parts. I find quite a few tubes that have a piece of one cathode segment not lighting up. Is that because they're so old or has that never been tested when they were packed? Michel On Dec 8, 12:29 am, Dekatron42 martin.forsb...@gmail.com wrote: Michel, I am glad that it worked for you to hit it with a screwdriver! I have one Z504S which has four small pieces of wire inside the glass envelope, the longest one is 3mm and the shortest one is 0.5mm - I bought four Z504S's on eBay and they all had a few loose wires inside. These only work upside down as the wires then collect at the top of the glass envelope, any other way and the wires fall down between the pins and result in shorts or neon lamps if they fall in the wrong place. /Martin On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:44:12 AM UTC+1, Michel wrote: I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it could also be too small to see Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Sleeping Sickness. A form of cathode poisoning, from not being powered for some time. It appears that sitting idle for too long, effects the surface of the metal cathodes. This effects the work function, and they light up, unevenly. Its a problem for all cold cathode tubes. Did you run them for a few hours, or so, at elevated current ? This usually cures the problem. But not always. ... a few tubes that have a piece of one cathode segment not lighting up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/-J_AsE5FG_4J. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
I've had problems with swarf and small cut off pieces of electrodes inside some Nixies and also Dekatrons, this has mostly happened tubes manufactured by Mullard. I also read on another forum that this happened to a lot of the Anita Calculators which used Mullard manufactured ZM1080's, here: * http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142*http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142. In some Dekatrons the loose pins could be shaken around, but in some cases I had to hit them hard, after they had formed a short to get them loose again. Sometimes there were burn marks left which meant that there was an occasional flash over and in some cases there was a permanent path for the current to pass through. I've had this problem with Z504S and Z505S plus the ZM1050/Z550M. /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/NZf5mh94wZEJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it could also be too small to see Michel On Dec 7, 7:24 pm, Dekatron42 martin.forsb...@gmail.com wrote: I've had problems with swarf and small cut off pieces of electrodes inside some Nixies and also Dekatrons, this has mostly happened tubes manufactured by Mullard. I also read on another forum that this happened to a lot of the Anita Calculators which used Mullard manufactured ZM1080's, here: *http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142*http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73142. In some Dekatrons the loose pins could be shaken around, but in some cases I had to hit them hard, after they had formed a short to get them loose again. Sometimes there were burn marks left which meant that there was an occasional flash over and in some cases there was a permanent path for the current to pass through. I've had this problem with Z504S and Z505S plus the ZM1050/Z550M. /Martin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Michel, I am glad that it worked for you to hit it with a screwdriver! I have one Z504S which has four small pieces of wire inside the glass envelope, the longest one is 3mm and the shortest one is 0.5mm - I bought four Z504S's on eBay and they all had a few loose wires inside. These only work upside down as the wires then collect at the top of the glass envelope, any other way and the wires fall down between the pins and result in shorts or neon lamps if they fall in the wrong place. /Martin On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:44:12 AM UTC+1, Michel wrote: I tried the trick with the back of a screw driver as mentioned in your link, and indeed this works! The short is gone. Not sure what has been the reason, could still have been some metal sputters I suppose. I don't see anything floating around inside the tube, but of course it could also be too small to see Michel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/XhqKPWwsW9oJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
You just got unlucky. The metal that sputters off the cathodes, formed crude metal film resistors; partial short. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/M3k2qIyDiqAJ. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[neonixie-l] Re: Testing nixie tubes
Some time ago I read that it would be good practice to let each cathode lit at maximum rated current for about 2 minutes, I can't find that page no more so I am not too sure about the reasoning behind it. If metal sputters are a cause of the problem, it could more likely show up in these first 2 minutes of maximum drive I guess. Putting the tubes in sockets would be an advantage in this case. I am actually surprised how easy it is to change a faulty (or broken) tube, it takes less effort than I had expected. It's quite easy to heat up all the legs together, take the tube out and then use some wick to empty the holes. Crucial here is to use a solder that has lots of flux. My board setup is different from yours, so sockets would simply not fit. Michel On Dec 7, 5:00 pm, threeneurons threeneur...@yahoo.com wrote: You just got unlucky. The metal that sputters off the cathodes, formed crude metal film resistors; partial short. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
