Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 29 June 2002 12:17 pm, robin did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > I wonder what the sales figures are really like. As I said before, I > only know one person who uses XP, and that was only because he bought a i don't know what they are like now, after the "comes installed" factor, but after MS had a press statement a month after release that said "they can't keep it on the shelves" i asked a guy at compusa about it. he said, and i quote: "maybe they can't keep it on the shelves because the box is top heavy and it keeps falling off. i stock our software shelf and in 4 weeks i have replaced 2 boxes." my brother does tech support for dell (i know, i know, i told him to have _some morals and become a pimp, did he listen?) and the techs there refer to XP as "the only OS to eat its own certified drivers and ask for seconds." :) - -- "Give me ambiguity or give me something else." shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9Heb0Bwq+ZwvIN/oRAgCWAJsGBcEMjcCIUG/uvFWVeiq//N5MbACfa1Ke vnN/sypmP7hCOlr3s+wREnk= =9+Au -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
On Fri, 2002-06-28 at 16:03, D. Olson wrote: > That's fine. You are entitled to your opinions. And so am I. And as you know, > my opinion is that people are stupid. > > I know people that KNOW that Linux is much better than Windows, that OSS is > better than proprietary crap, and so on. Do they use the better stuff? No. > They try it, then they go back to Windows, because "I don't want to configure > my scanner" or "I can't play Tribes 2" both of which have workarounds... They > laugh at me because I "talk about Linux too much." I tell them all the evil > shit that MS is doing, and they don't care... The VERY sad part about it is > that we are all in a CNET course, almost done, and this is going to play a > major part of our future... Maybe it's just me, but I think that they are > stupid. They aren't ignorant, as ignorant implies that they don't know which > is better. They don't have very valid reasons for going back to Windows, > which isn't because they learned that Linux sucks, but because they are > lazy/cheap/stupid... This is kinda scary cause I get the impression that this email somehow crossed the boundaries of a parallel universe, and I have an alternate self over there relating his experiences. Real spooky...cause I have exactly the same experiences and conclusions as you do; right down to the Mandrake erasure thing "for more space." Now...on the content of your message. I'm compelled to respond because I agree with your conclusions and I understand what you are saying. I've had an identical experience with someone that is technically capable, but yet makes a conscious adult decision to further the cause of M$ by continuing to use XP. When he KNOWS that he can get the same functionality in Mandrake, and more stability, and NOT be in the position of promoting a negative social force. Hell, I installed it for him, for pete's sakeplayed Diablo 2 in front of him for 30 minutes, after a protracted argument about the problems with command lines and clueless users; neither of which are valid rebuttals since the advent of Mandrake Linux. The conclusion I reluctantly arrived at was that proving somebody wrong does not necessarily obliviate their need to continue being wrong. As for an examination of this person's motivations, I think that his ego dictates that he be able to look and feel (feel is important here) *competent* to both himself and those around him. For some static individuals who cut their teeth on Winblows, this is the only way they can maintain their fiction; their illusion. For some, as long as they don't *feel* competent in a certain bailiwick, they won't stay there...EVEN IF IT MEANS THEY WILL EVOLVE INTO SOMETHING BETTER; to a GREATER LEVEL OF COMPETENCY !!! To me, stupidity is the act of making a conscious adult choice to do the wrong thing; and although we have alot of winblows users that got there by accident and stay there by accident, we also have alot of informed "experts" that decide to stay there and promote it simply because they lack the balls to advance their status quo, or the world's status quo. Now that's stupidity. > I offered to configure the scanner for the guy, and I > don't expect everyone to just know Linux stuff off the bat... That's not what > I am saying. But this guy knows all about it, he's good on the command line, > he was using it for about 2 months with no Windows... But now he's back to > Win2K... Another guy makes jokes about "freeing up space" on his hard drive > by deleting Mandrake... It isn't a very funny joke, but a stupid joke. And I > could go on and on and on, but the point is, people are still stupid. > > In relation to this topic, the new Microsoft crap, no matter how informed > people are, they are STILL going to buy the CPUs, they are STILL going to buy > Longhorn, they are STILL going to buy Clippy -er, Office I mean, they are > STILL going to write Linux off as a "geeks-only" OS. > > I hope that this changes, but as you can tell, I don't have faith in people > at all. > > I don't mean to offend anyone by saying people are dumb or stupid, so PLEASE, > DO NOT BE OFFENDED. I'm not because I understand what you are getting at. > I just mean, that in my experience, people will find out truths and continue > to ignore the facts. That's how it is. > > Face it, if you are on this list, you are an enlightened person. Not ONLY > people on this list, but you are some of them. > > Now, please, don't start attacking me. > > This is not a censored list (apparently) and I am free to express my opinions > however I want. And I am willing to bet that how I have expressed them above > is going to be misinterpreted, as that's what often happens to me via text > messaging. I would strongly suggest that you continue your expression here because your experiences and conclusions have intrinsic value. Keep on truckin, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Ma
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
> > >On Fri, 2002-06-28 at 06:18, D. Olson wrote: > > >>That has some interesting points of view, however, this most likely will >>happen. >> >>Why? >> >>Because people are stupid. I signed the petition stating so too. >> >>People were warned about XP, what do they do? They buy it anyhow. >> >> I wonder what the sales figures are really like. As I said before, I only know one person who uses XP, and that was only because he bought a new computer. He's persevering with it, but is still considering going back to Win98. More stable it may be, but my brief experience of trying to get it connected to the Internet so it wouldn't self-destruct in five days made me really appreciate how easy Mandrake is to configure. In contrast, although I sometimes see posts from people using Mandrake 7.2 or 8.0, most of us upgrade whenever a new distro comes out; it's partly curiosity, and partly a feeling of confidence that even if upgrades are someimtes disappointing, they're not likely to screw us completely. I still find it amzing that people are still writing articles with titles like "Is Linux ready for the desktop?" Linux has been ready for some time now; the question is how far ahead will it get, how fast? Sir Robin -- "It suits the poet himself to be dutifully chaste, his verses not necessarily so at all" - Catullus Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Üniversitesi Ankara 06533 http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
On Fri, 2002-06-28 at 06:18, D. Olson wrote: > That has some interesting points of view, however, this most likely will > happen. > > Why? > > Because people are stupid. I signed the petition stating so too. > > People were warned about XP, what do they do? They buy it anyhow. > > People were warned about the serial numbers on Intel CPUs, what do they do? > They buy it anyhow. > > They were warned not to believe every email they receive, what do they do? > They start deleting their sulfnbak.exe files. > > Face it. People are dumb. They are going to continue Microsoft's path to the > utter destruction of the entire computer industry. > > Disclaimer: In the event that someone gets a clue and doesn't buy into this > shit, then hey, I guess I was wrong. Well, that has happened once before, so > it's not a big surprise to me. And I am not disappointed, more... Shocked. > > Dana. There is more than a little merit in what you are saying, my friend. Most of our woes today are the result of worldwide mea culpa. Unfortunately most people lack the wisdom to see past their own experiences; therefore they remain caged within them. As a result their cage becomes our cage, since their malformed buying decisions and actions shape the destiny of the world. If people sought excellence in all things instead of a quick fix to all things we would be running linux right now and Gates would have never made it. LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
On Thursday 27 June 2002 05:35 pm, you wrote: > On Thursday 27 June 2002 02:15 pm, civileme did speak unto the huddled > > masses, saying: > > Look over history. Every watershed empire was eventually knocked over > > by an outside force of less technically supplied, less organized > > barbarians. > > i am a barbarian now? cool :) > > linus must a wee bit of viking blood in him i admit. > > > OK what can you do? You can task yourself with educating 5 people over > > the next 12 months. And ask them to do the same > > That's really all that is required. > > that, and hope those you educate are not sheep, or the learning is lost. May I add something else here? Make sure that a percentage of those 5 you educate (or re-educate, as it were) are under the age of say...10? What is that saying about what they learn young...? -- /\ Dark> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
June 27, 2002 03:35 pm, shane wrote: > On Thursday 27 June 2002 02:15 pm, civileme did speak unto the huddled > > masses, saying: > > Look over history. Every watershed empire was eventually knocked over > > by an outside force of less technically supplied, less organized > > barbarians. > > i am a barbarian now? cool :) Better than us troglodytes! :-) > linus must a wee bit of viking blood in him i admit. > > > OK what can you do? You can task yourself with educating 5 people over > > the next 12 months. And ask them to do the same > > That's really all that is required. > > that, and hope those you educate are not sheep, or the learning is lost. Workin' on it. -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org God instructs the heart, not by ideas, but by pains and contradictions. -- De Caussade Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
June 27, 2002 03:15 pm, civileme wrote: > Well, it is obvious that it is a real threat to consumers. It does > treat the user as the enemy, and it does undermine the GPL. > > But soldiers and bullets will likely need to be used to enforce it. > TCPA non-compliant processors will be made by VIA and others, most > likely, for some time to come, unless legislation is bought to make it > illegal to do so or to build a home computer from such. It introduces a > split in the Frits and non-Fritz users, which will only widen as time > moves on, and it protects entrenched money to the point that > revolutionary thoughts may gain impetus. > > The plain and simple of this is that Microsoft is like a watershed > empire. As long as the state controls the water, it is unassailable > from within, no matter how rotten it becomes. To date, linux and other > fringe enterprises have not been serious competition because the idea is > to offer individuals with a will to own their own computers and lives an > alternative. Now, with the TCPA/Palladium initiative, if it goes to > completion, linux and free software become an external force. > > Look over history. Every watershed empire was eventually knocked over > by an outside force of less technically supplied, less organized > barbarians. Will the Fritz users be the watershed, and the non-Fritz > the barbarians? Those who don't learn from the mistakes in history are > doomed to repeat them. > > Look at government. In a democratic society, citizens should have the > right to audit how their votes were counted and how their taxes were > calculated. If we have this, it is possible for government to lock this > data away. I think Lord Akton said it well, "Power corrupts, and > absolute power corrupts absolutely." > > OK what can you do? You can task yourself with educating 5 people over > the next 12 months. And ask them to do the same > That's really all that is required. > > Civileme ~ Thank you Civileme for your perspective. I'm still such a self professed 'noob' that I'm never certain whether I'm "helping the movement or being a hindrance." That doesn't stop me making all sorts of noise with friends and acquaintances when I read news such as articles in this vein. I suppose I just need reassurance that this "issue" is something that merits the time and energy. Some of the opinions I've read (slashdot and a few other places) made me believe i was starting at shadows. The idiocy of Microsoft's positions recently actually makes it easier to show people what OSS/FS has to offer. Should I thank them for that? :-) The running score for people I've spoken to is 14 responses of 37 I sent links to, (but I'll probably get more responses this weekend) of which 12 are incensed over the arrogance displayed by TCPA. The other two are still stuck in "HUH?" mode. Ten are from Windows users that haven't even tried anything else. Possibly hadn't even considered it. Yet. :-) I'll keep stirring the pot here in Edmonton. On a side note: I think Senator Fritz and his co-sponsors should be dumped into a pile of their own excretions for a while. Then abused. -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Give thought to your reputation. Consider changing name and moving to a new town. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 27 June 2002 02:15 pm, civileme did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > Look over history. Every watershed empire was eventually knocked over > by an outside force of less technically supplied, less organized > barbarians. i am a barbarian now? cool :) linus must a wee bit of viking blood in him i admit. > OK what can you do? You can task yourself with educating 5 people over > the next 12 months. And ask them to do the same > That's really all that is required. that, and hope those you educate are not sheep, or the learning is lost. - -- "The linux philosophy is laugh in the face of danger. Oops. Wrong one. 'Do it yourself.' That's it." -L. Torvalds shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9G4UwBwq+ZwvIN/oRAouLAJ9E0o9u5Tdh8Pj6AWsyoCBMv5HqWgCbB/T8 dcI7coCcsmY91dYOTnXxJyU= =6pnA -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
Charlie wrote: >June 27, 2002 02:16 am, Alastair Scott wrote: > > >>This - from a well-known academic specialist in security issues - is not >>uninteresting, although written with much asseveration (I would like to >>see proof of the points about mobile phone batteries and toner >>cartridges; such people, in a sense, make their reputation by seeing >>the worst in everything): >> >>http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html >> > >You were correct Alastair. It was considerably _less_ than uninteresting. :-) >Thanks for the link. > >>Coming from a military background (and someone who has no interest in >>online video, ebooks, music or all that), I'm less worried than some; >>the ideas are not new and a lot, really, should have been done by now. >>The general security of PCs is deplorable and software encryption is >>not good enough (the 'encrypted' data flies around unencrypted on the >>bus, along the monitor cable, to and from the keyboard etc. etc. for at >>least part of its existence :) >> > >For the military, for corporations, for government, for that matter for >anyone that wants the technology fine. I do believe that the case could be >made easily that these entities have need for secured hardware, and for >secured software. It's so far into overkill for the average consumer that it >beggars belief. > >>The real issue is whether such solutions are applicable to John Q Public >>or not, and I think they are overkill. They are _certainly_ applicable >>in classified settings! >> > >My revulsion for the entire concept isn't for the "solution" itself per se. >It's the TCPA; which to my mind is the newest of the new oxymorons. > >_Trusted?_ *Microsoft?* *Intel?* *The entire entertainment industry and it's >public lapdogs such as _Senator Fritz_?* I now need to add AMD to this list? > >For all that, what corporation/bureaucracy/political body is truly >trustworthy *sans* public audit? > >I won't play. I refuse to waste money and time to support the myth that >Microsoft, Hollywood, et al and ad nauseum are granted a natural right to >profit by abuse of the consumer. If the next computer that I build myself >this fall is the last new computer I ever _own_ then so be it. > >I did claim, after all, to be a troglodyte. :-) > >>Alastair >> > > > > >Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? >Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com > Well, it is obvious that it is a real threat to consumers. It does treat the user as the enemy, and it does undermine the GPL. But soldiers and bullets will likely need to be used to enforce it. TCPA non-compliant processors will be made by VIA and others, most likely, for some time to come, unless legislation is bought to make it illegal to do so or to build a home computer from such. It introduces a split in the Frits and non-Fritz users, which will only widen as time moves on, and it protects entrenched money to the point that revolutionary thoughts may gain impetus. The plain and simple of this is that Microsoft is like a watershed empire. As long as the state controls the water, it is unassailable from within, no matter how rotten it becomes. To date, linux and other fringe enterprises have not been serious competition because the idea is to offer individuals with a will to own their own computers and lives an alternative. Now, with the TCPA/Palladium initiative, if it goes to completion, linux and free software become an external force. Look over history. Every watershed empire was eventually knocked over by an outside force of less technically supplied, less organized barbarians. Will the Fritz users be the watershed, and the non-Fritz the barbarians? Those who don't learn from the mistakes in history are doomed to repeat them. Look at government. In a democratic society, citizens should have the right to audit how their votes were counted and how their taxes were calculated. If we have this, it is possible for government to lock this data away. I think Lord Akton said it well, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." OK what can you do? You can task yourself with educating 5 people over the next 12 months. And ask them to do the same That's really all that is required. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
June 27, 2002 02:16 am, Alastair Scott wrote: > This - from a well-known academic specialist in security issues - is not > uninteresting, although written with much asseveration (I would like to > see proof of the points about mobile phone batteries and toner > cartridges; such people, in a sense, make their reputation by seeing > the worst in everything): > > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html You were correct Alastair. It was considerably _less_ than uninteresting. :-) Thanks for the link. > Coming from a military background (and someone who has no interest in > online video, ebooks, music or all that), I'm less worried than some; > the ideas are not new and a lot, really, should have been done by now. > The general security of PCs is deplorable and software encryption is > not good enough (the 'encrypted' data flies around unencrypted on the > bus, along the monitor cable, to and from the keyboard etc. etc. for at > least part of its existence :) For the military, for corporations, for government, for that matter for anyone that wants the technology fine. I do believe that the case could be made easily that these entities have need for secured hardware, and for secured software. It's so far into overkill for the average consumer that it beggars belief. > The real issue is whether such solutions are applicable to John Q Public > or not, and I think they are overkill. They are _certainly_ applicable > in classified settings! My revulsion for the entire concept isn't for the "solution" itself per se. It's the TCPA; which to my mind is the newest of the new oxymorons. _Trusted?_ *Microsoft?* *Intel?* *The entire entertainment industry and it's public lapdogs such as _Senator Fritz_?* I now need to add AMD to this list? For all that, what corporation/bureaucracy/political body is truly trustworthy *sans* public audit? I won't play. I refuse to waste money and time to support the myth that Microsoft, Hollywood, et al and ad nauseum are granted a natural right to profit by abuse of the consumer. If the next computer that I build myself this fall is the last new computer I ever _own_ then so be it. I did claim, after all, to be a troglodyte. :-) > Alastair -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die, One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. -- J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Lord of the Rings" Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
June 26, 2002 08:20 pm, robin wrote: > Jay wrote: > >Don't know if this makes sense cause I don't know much about hardware > >encryption, but can't the community come together with a distributed .net > >type project to crack it? > > There is already an alternative to .net in the form of the liberty > alliance. > > Funny how quickly MS tire of their own "innovations", though. Six > months ago, .net was supposed to provide us all with the privacy, > security and convenience that Palladium is promising now. > > Sir Robin ~~~ It wasn't my intent to spread FUD or cause an argument but the latest in a long list of attempts to take the internet away from the "common person" has me more than a bit cranky. Regardless of the contempt I personally feel for Microsoft and their business tactics; they still have enough clout in the real world, and enough customers that will never read anything more than official Waggener Edstrom press releases, to make life very miserable for anyone that holds an opposing view. Anyone that doesn't believe that can do a search for companies/technologies that were either 'embraced and extended' to death, or purchased outright after MS bullied them out of their skivvies and off the map. Or see the way the anti-trust trial turned out. The point isn't whether anyone that frequents this mailing list; or any other list or site devoted to 'mutual support' of open source software, would willingly bow to the will of "The Beast." It's whether Joe SixPack would even notice. If the average consumer doesn't hear why this idea should die aborning from people that are aware of what it means then we are abrogating our own freedoms. My original question was what we can do about it? I'm already receiving replies from people that I forwarded one of the many links about it to. Most are asking 'What the hell is this and what does it mean?' The best I've managed to offer so far is that if they want someone else to decide what they can see, where they can surf, even whether they're allowed to e-mail 'Auntie Em' a digital photo of 'little Festus' without the permission of the Almighty Microsoft in their benevolent wisdom, then leap right on that bandwagon and shout "Hallelujah!" 'Cause the all knowing, all seeing, "His Billness's" palladium may not allow Auntie Em to download it/open it even if you're allowed to send it. It may not be "Trusted" (tm). I'll never sell MS short where marketing and pulling the wool over JsP's eyes is concerned. If the company had any respect for anything they might actually build an OS that isn't swiss cheese when considered from a security and stability standpoint. I hope all those scoffing at the very idea of this getting off the ground are correct; but I won't stop telling people why they should refuse to buy into the latest crap from Microsoft either. -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relative to other matter; second, telling other people to do so. -- Bertrand Russell Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
Jay wrote: >Don't know if this makes sense cause I don't know much about hardware >encryption, but can't the community come together with a distributed .net >type project to crack it? > > > There is already an alternative to .net in the form of the liberty alliance. Funny how quickly MS tire of their own "innovations", though. Six months ago, .net was supposed to provide us all with the privacy, security and convenience that Palladium is promising now. Sir Robin -- "It suits the poet himself to be dutifully chaste, his verses not necessarily so at all" - Catullus Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Üniversitesi Ankara 06533 http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
Don't know if this makes sense cause I don't know much about hardware encryption, but can't the community come together with a distributed .net type project to crack it? -=Jay=- > Hello all; > > If I'm forced to use anything labelled Microsoft in the future to be > able to use a computer I guess I'll regress even further into > "troglodyte" mode. As in no computing for me. :-( > > MS may have really come up with something that'll kill GNU/Linux this > time; through finding a way to kill the GPL. Or am I misreading the > whole thing? > > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,274309,00.asp > -- > Charlie > Edmonton,AB,Canada > Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org > Badges? We don't need no stinking badges. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 26 June 2002 07:28 am, Charlie did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: > > first of all, in order for their plan to work, they would need to force > > every single windoze user to "upgrade" to their paladium hardware, > > which i don't think they'll be able to do easily. > > I didn't think there would be nearly as many people willing to buy the > last version of Win 9x as did either. "Never underestimate the power of > human stupidity," nor the power of OEMs and hardware manufacturers to > play along with anything "His Billness" conceives. Under the heading > "anything for a buck." while this _was_ true it followed a certain pattern. MS "gotta have it!" nuts first, then work force, then universities that had no backbone next, home users last. the number of gotta have its has dropped off after the trial and the terrible pricing of XP and nightmare of both ME and XP. companies are leaving in droves. countries are declaring "OSS or else" and places are offering machines with linux installed. by the time they finish the product they may have some trouble selling it > > second, concerning web access/trusted applications, etc... if > > about 50% of the internet runs under UNIX/Linux/BSD servers, > > It's been established as fact for years that MS has as one of it's > primary goals the utter control, if not outright 'ownership' of the > entire internet. Or at the very least to be able to force others to > accept their "embraced and extended" protocols as the defacto standards. yet some companies, countries, people are learning to stand clear or else. will enough stand clear in time? > I again refer you to the Heinlein quote above regarding my perception of > the native intelligence of a large portion of the human race. The vast > majority can't think at the best of times. Not creatively or > independently at any rate. Case in point? Have you actually paid any > attention to the absurd marketing schemes on > TV/Radio/Newspapers/Websites? very true, yet it is a case of "some of the people all of the time." they need the kind of % they have with IE as a browser, yet it requires a whole new OS and new hardware? and must interact with the web (mostly *nix servers) which won't go there unless forced. i have doubts. > If a person can devise a tool to make any of this possible there _will_ > be another person clever enough to break it. I hope the breakage happens > before the proposal gets off the ground myself. and if the whole machine is secure from hardware to OS, and forces all you info/data/life to be involved, that one break in is _very_bad. single point of failure for your life anyone? > > i sincerely hope they go along with their plan. it will be nice > > to watch them bite the dust and lose a couple hundred billions... > > MS has made billions through "knowing what makes the frog jump." and had many a mistake made along the way. generally they gamble small things on the far reaching points and fail. gamble big on minor toys and get away with it. a combo of this, legal actions and xbox may just do them in.. besides, the promise of win 95 is still not complete and we are, what, 5 versions later? this should be done in about 30 years. 20 years after MS is a "where are they now?" company. ;) - -- "The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." -DOUGLAS ADAMS, Author shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9GfEjBwq+ZwvIN/oRAlOvAJ0YetPtioOOMfLca/acz//PGhCROwCfWY40 aC4Ef7TQKTvbWIQ96NxVrh4= =zHDi -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Can anything be done about this?
June 26, 2002 02:30 am, Damian G wrote: > ..the word is all over the place. lately i've been getting palladium > even in my soup. I get you Damian. I've read it in too many places myself. The article I linked just seemed to be one of the better analyses of what is proposed/intended. > there's a couple of threads about this already on the lists... Guess I'll have to pay more attention then won't I? :-) Sorry. > however i still think they are going to fail. Let's hope so. It still reminds me of the processor serial number idea Intel tried a few years back but more malevolent. > first of all, in order for their plan to work, they would need to force > every single windoze user to "upgrade" to their paladium hardware, > which i don't think they'll be able to do easily. I didn't think there would be nearly as many people willing to buy the last version of Win 9x as did either. "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity," nor the power of OEMs and hardware manufacturers to play along with anything "His Billness" conceives. Under the heading "anything for a buck." > second, concerning web access/trusted applications, etc... if > about 50% of the internet runs under UNIX/Linux/BSD servers, > which are, of course, not certified by M$ as "trusted", > does this mean that MS's machines will be unable to interact > with 50% of the internet? ( yes, the security of this new hardware > goes as far as web content, which means that it can block "untrusted" > websites ) It's been established as fact for years that MS has as one of it's primary goals the utter control, if not outright 'ownership' of the entire internet. Or at the very least to be able to force others to accept their "embraced and extended" protocols as the defacto standards. Having unfettered influence (ownership?) over any number of those "feeding at the public trough" is one way that may be feasible, since it ain't just Mickeysoft. DMCA, TCPA, PSN, RIAA,DRM, ... alphabet soup. > > every single attempt to guess the computer world's future based > on this palladuim stuff ( and i mean i've read about it nearly in > every site i went to ) was based upon the suposition that every single > Windows user will be buying this palladium hardware instantly after > it goes out. My guess is: that won't happen. it will probably not > happen at all. not while there's a choice. I again refer you to the Heinlein quote above regarding my perception of the native intelligence of a large portion of the human race. The vast majority can't think at the best of times. Not creatively or independently at any rate. Case in point? Have you actually paid any attention to the absurd marketing schemes on TV/Radio/Newspapers/Websites? Would anyone that can think spend money on anything being promoted by such abysmally stupid advertising campaigns? Those same people will buy whatever they're told to by a large enough or "clever enough" marketing campaign. > would you buy a computer that doesn't let you download MP3 files > from websites or with filesharing proggies? Myself? Not in this lifetime. I don't do filesharing, but it's nice to know that I could if I chose. At presnt anyway. For a while longer? > would you buy a computer that decides for you wether the code > inside of a program is "trustworthy", and thus tells you which > programs you can run and which you cannot? i mean, imagine this > situation: i've just finished coding a small demo for a little game > i'm making. > let's say i want you to test it and tell me what you think. > but, aha, you got the palladium machine, and when my binary > file arrives to your computer, it cannot run because i have > not certified my little beta proggie to run with your windoze... Again; no. I'd be more inclined to trust a thief in a bank vault or a weasel in a chicken coop personally. Or any politician, or group of them, with control of any spending or legislation without any checks and balances. (Woops redundant, sorry.) I understand your points, and the reason I said I'd go troglodyte first was just that. From what I've seen on this and other GNU/Linux users lists there isn't a problem with those that have chosen to use open source software. It's the drones that succumb to the "Windows Upgrade" virus that will; and they're still the vast majority of computer users on this planet. Not developers; not contributors to open source in any way; even only in a willingness to use open source software and report any bugs, then share experiences with others using it. Or only to use it and try to learn more. Most of these people have already chosen to think for themselves. I'm worried about the ones that still whine that "Linux is too hard!" There are a lot of them. > ... at this poit i even begin to wonder how will self-extracting > compression utilities ( as self-extracting winZIP or winRAR exe files) > will manage to keep up! what if i need to compress and send to a machine > that doesn
