RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
So can I.. but does that mean you should??? Sure sounds good in theory.. but if you forked say 200 bucks extra to get a faster P4 CPU for example, and then bought a winmodem, you will lose most of the difference that faster CPU would have gotten you as its wasting cycles doing stuff the modem itself should be. The funny thing is, that its so hard to find internal modems that are not winmodems.. cos comparing an external serial with a winmodem is not a fair comparision. The cost of the external has to not only cover the hardware that the winmodem should have it also has to cover the modem case, the power supply for it ect. An internal hardware modem would be very close to the same price as a winmodem.. There are a couple out there, their names just escape me at present. One of my wholesalers has a special on, external modem with a web camera for 59 bucks AUD. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Kuhn Sent: Wednesday, 6 August 2003 3:26 PM To: Mandrake Newbie Subject: RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 13:19, Frankie wrote: interesting.. I have used a dozen differnet no name brand serial external modems and never had a problem connecting once.. In fact one of them is on 24/7 on a permanent dialup connection and its been doing that for 3 years.. never had any probs with them.. just plug them in and run wvdial or whever you use, and off it goes. I have also had no real hassles with conextant HCF/HSF winmodems with the linux driver RPM marc wrote. Still, to each his own.. Since a external hardware modem costs about about 50 AUD bucks nowdays, I cant' see why thats a big issue. :-) regards Franki Cuz, ya silly bastard, I can get internal modems for $15 AUDHA! (grin) -- Wed Aug 6 17:20:01 EST 2003 17:20:01 up 2 days, 21:08, 2 users, load average: 2.91, 2.95, 2.92 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind. -- H.L. Mencken Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
This is worth reading - especially if you're a recent convert to linux, or nice to hand out to people if you want to establish facts. http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,83708,00.html?nas=AM-83708 -- Tue Aug 5 17:20:01 EST 2003 17:20:01 up 1 day, 21:08, 1 user, load average: 1.24, 0.95, 0.85 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. - Mark Twain Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 00:08, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 02:03, Josenildo Marques wrote: snip ee more with the article. One has only to be _open_ to learn more. I am not sure about this, but I think what kind of prevents Linux from growing in desktop use is a hardware item: the modem. It's extremely unbelievably hard to find modems that are compatible to Linux. I would have 'converted' snip This is a very good point, mate; and in all actuality, I've chucked a wobbly before just because I couldn't either get a modem working, or couldn't get PPP up and running easily enough; what is needed is something NOT like the MCC, but a standalone wizard or some such that would not only detect most normal modems, but also the winmodems (or rather, have better support for the winmodems - like the HST/HSP - the Conexant chipsets) so that first time newbies can literally do a few clicks here and there and voila! be on the net - and yeah, I know that snip I agree, but I must say I've found configuring printers to print decently and getting CD-writers to work at all much more of a PITA, particularly when you compare the ease of doing it in Win$. It was a major reason driving me to hop from one distro of Linux to another and will keep me upgrading MD for some time to come, no doubt. Unfortunately I don't have a Stephen nearby to hold my handWhoops! DougB Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
interesting.. I have used a dozen differnet no name brand serial external modems and never had a problem connecting once.. In fact one of them is on 24/7 on a permanent dialup connection and its been doing that for 3 years.. never had any probs with them.. just plug them in and run wvdial or whever you use, and off it goes. I have also had no real hassles with conextant HCF/HSF winmodems with the linux driver RPM marc wrote. Still, to each his own.. Since a external hardware modem costs about about 50 AUD bucks nowdays, I cant' see why thats a big issue. :-) regards Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Roland Hughes Sent: Wednesday, 6 August 2003 8:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability I do not claim to be a expert on linux but I have tried to use external modems on Mandrake 9.1 on two box's and have not been able to get them working. They dial out, go through the hand shaking, get a connect , start ppp and the just re-dial. I unchecked the lock and tried every speed setting but no joy. Did not want you to spend money when you were happy with the winmodems. Roly On Tuesday 05 August 2003 04:50 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 04:32, Frankie wrote: Even if you do get winmodems working, your still better off with an external serial anyway. regards Franki I've had unbelievable luck with winmodems - using one as we speak, and sell them to most customers; if you KNOW how to set it up, it's really a quickie. Yeah, they're cheaply made and yeah, they're not high quality, but they work nonetheless... Now when I can set aside the moola for a nice USR external, I'll grab one...but I don't see that in the foreseeable future as I'm trying to get a few more monitors, hard drives and a motherboard or three... -- Wed Aug 6 09:45:00 EST 2003 09:45:00 up 2 days, 13:33, 2 users, load average: 2.11, 2.09, 2.04 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * How many NASA managers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? That's a known problem... don't worry about it. -- MicroSoft - The company that made the internet unsafe! Linux Counter #241069 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 22:08, Douglas Bainbridge wrote: I agree, but I must say I've found configuring printers to print decently and getting CD-writers to work at all much more of a PITA, particularly when you compare the ease of doing it in Win$. It was a major reason driving me to hop from one distro of Linux to another and will keep me upgrading MD for some time to come, no doubt. Unfortunately I don't have a Stephen nearby to hold my handWhoops! DougB Just tell me your IP address, make me a user on your box, give me the root password, and I'll have you MORE than fixed up by morning time...(grin) -- Wed Aug 6 22:20:00 EST 2003 22:20:00 up 3 days, 2:08, 2 users, load average: 3.74, 3.42, 3.32 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Lisp Users: Due to the holiday next Monday, there will be no garbage collection. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
Its not hard to find linux compatable modems.. Just get an external serial modem and your laughing.. Keep in mind that winmodems were designed as a cheap way to make a modem where the manufacturer can leave out half the hardware and make the actual PC do the work.. They are not real modems.. they are really just a link between the phone line and your CPU. Having said that, most lucent and conextant winmodems work in linux nowdays.. (and the two of those make up the majority of winmodems.) The problem is that it won't really help you get yours working with a default mandrake install because often the drivers are not GPL and mandrake refuses to include them in the download distro.. The result is that you have to track down and install the drivers yourself. Even if you do get winmodems working, your still better off with an external serial anyway. regards Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Josenildo Marques Sent: Wednesday, 6 August 2003 12:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 05 August 2003 04:27, Stephen Kuhn wrote: This is worth reading - especially if you're a recent convert to linux, or nice to hand out to people if you want to establish facts. http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,83708 ,00.html? nas=AM-83708 Definitely worth reading, Stephen. Thanks for the link. As a common user without any computing course or refined computing skills, I couldn't agree more with the article. One has only to be _open_ to learn more. I am not sure about this, but I think what kind of prevents Linux from growing in desktop use is a hardware item: the modem. It's extremely unbelievably hard to find modems that are compatible to Linux. I would have 'converted' many friends who have computers to Linux, I would even install Linux in their computers, but when I ask them what kind or brand of modem they have, either they do not know it or it is an on-board modem that is Windows-dependent. Maybe this impression is not so bleak. But I'm sure you guys out there can enlighten me. JM -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/L9Vl4eVBtrgQWDsRAnsDAKCi6nAb0I228CmVjoyZVzApmQQslQCeO9gh qNb+atQrpniA4vLhHUaQ9eU= =8isR -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
I do not claim to be a expert on linux but I have tried to use external modems on Mandrake 9.1 on two box's and have not been able to get them working. They dial out, go through the hand shaking, get a connect , start ppp and the just re-dial. I unchecked the lock and tried every speed setting but no joy. Did not want you to spend money when you were happy with the winmodems. Roly On Tuesday 05 August 2003 04:50 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 04:32, Frankie wrote: Even if you do get winmodems working, your still better off with an external serial anyway. regards Franki I've had unbelievable luck with winmodems - using one as we speak, and sell them to most customers; if you KNOW how to set it up, it's really a quickie. Yeah, they're cheaply made and yeah, they're not high quality, but they work nonetheless... Now when I can set aside the moola for a nice USR external, I'll grab one...but I don't see that in the foreseeable future as I'm trying to get a few more monitors, hard drives and a motherboard or three... -- Wed Aug 6 09:45:00 EST 2003 09:45:00 up 2 days, 13:33, 2 users, load average: 2.11, 2.09, 2.04 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * How many NASA managers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? That's a known problem... don't worry about it. -- MicroSoft - The company that made the internet unsafe! Linux Counter #241069 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 13:19, Frankie wrote: interesting.. I have used a dozen differnet no name brand serial external modems and never had a problem connecting once.. In fact one of them is on 24/7 on a permanent dialup connection and its been doing that for 3 years.. never had any probs with them.. just plug them in and run wvdial or whever you use, and off it goes. I have also had no real hassles with conextant HCF/HSF winmodems with the linux driver RPM marc wrote. Still, to each his own.. Since a external hardware modem costs about about 50 AUD bucks nowdays, I cant' see why thats a big issue. :-) regards Franki Cuz, ya silly bastard, I can get internal modems for $15 AUDHA! (grin) -- Wed Aug 6 17:20:01 EST 2003 17:20:01 up 2 days, 21:08, 2 users, load average: 2.91, 2.95, 2.92 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind. -- H.L. Mencken Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 07:00, Frankie wrote: So can I.. but does that mean you should??? Sure sounds good in theory.. but if you forked say 200 bucks extra to get a faster P4 CPU for example, and then bought a winmodem, you will lose most of the difference that faster CPU would have gotten you as its wasting cycles doing stuff the modem itself should be. The funny thing is, that its so hard to find internal modems that are not winmodems.. cos comparing an external serial with a winmodem is not a fair comparision. The cost of the external has to not only cover the hardware that the winmodem should have it also has to cover the modem case, the power supply for it ect. An internal hardware modem would be very close to the same price as a winmodem.. There are a couple out there, their names just escape me at present. One of my wholesalers has a special on, external modem with a web camera for 59 bucks AUD. rgds the Actiontec Call waiting modem even says linux compatible on the box and is a pci internal modem. Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Kuhn Sent: Wednesday, 6 August 2003 3:26 PM To: Mandrake Newbie Subject: RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 13:19, Frankie wrote: interesting.. I have used a dozen differnet no name brand serial external modems and never had a problem connecting once.. In fact one of them is on 24/7 on a permanent dialup connection and its been doing that for 3 years.. never had any probs with them.. just plug them in and run wvdial or whever you use, and off it goes. I have also had no real hassles with conextant HCF/HSF winmodems with the linux driver RPM marc wrote. Still, to each his own.. Since a external hardware modem costs about about 50 AUD bucks nowdays, I cant' see why thats a big issue. :-) regards Franki Cuz, ya silly bastard, I can get internal modems for $15 AUDHA! (grin) -- Wed Aug 6 17:20:01 EST 2003 17:20:01 up 2 days, 21:08, 2 users, load average: 2.91, 2.95, 2.92 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind. -- H.L. Mencken __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 02:03, Josenildo Marques wrote: Definitely worth reading, Stephen. Thanks for the link. As a common user without any computing course or refined computing skills, I couldn't agree more with the article. One has only to be _open_ to learn more. I am not sure about this, but I think what kind of prevents Linux from growing in desktop use is a hardware item: the modem. It's extremely unbelievably hard to find modems that are compatible to Linux. I would have 'converted' many friends who have computers to Linux, I would even install Linux in their computers, but when I ask them what kind or brand of modem they have, either they do not know it or it is an on-board modem that is Windows-dependent. Maybe this impression is not so bleak. But I'm sure you guys out there can enlighten me. JM This is a very good point, mate; and in all actuality, I've chucked a wobbly before just because I couldn't either get a modem working, or couldn't get PPP up and running easily enough; what is needed is something NOT like the MCC, but a standalone wizard or some such that would not only detect most normal modems, but also the winmodems (or rather, have better support for the winmodems - like the HST/HSP - the Conexant chipsets) so that first time newbies can literally do a few clicks here and there and voila! be on the net - and yeah, I know that some people are going to say Well, MCC works great for me! - but in reality, it does lack the friendliness the MS Windows users are used to... With that said, THAT would be one means by which people would switch more readily - ease of getting on the net. I make sure my customers' machines are already setup before they leave the house - that at least ensures that they'll have no complexities other than the usual crap of where do I put my downloads? or How do I open a downloaded file? or how can I keep the wife from seeing these pictures?. -- Wed Aug 6 09:00:00 EST 2003 09:00:00 up 2 days, 12:48, 2 users, load average: 2.10, 1.95, 1.78 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * For the fashion of Minas Tirith was such that it was built on seven levels, each delved into a hill, and about each was set a wall, and in each wall was a gate. -- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King [Quoted in VMS Internals and Data Structures, V4.4, when referring to system overview.] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 04:32, Frankie wrote: Even if you do get winmodems working, your still better off with an external serial anyway. regards Franki I've had unbelievable luck with winmodems - using one as we speak, and sell them to most customers; if you KNOW how to set it up, it's really a quickie. Yeah, they're cheaply made and yeah, they're not high quality, but they work nonetheless... Now when I can set aside the moola for a nice USR external, I'll grab one...but I don't see that in the foreseeable future as I'm trying to get a few more monitors, hard drives and a motherboard or three... -- Wed Aug 6 09:45:00 EST 2003 09:45:00 up 2 days, 13:33, 2 users, load average: 2.11, 2.09, 2.04 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * How many NASA managers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? That's a known problem... don't worry about it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] ARTICLE: Study: Linux nears Windows XP usability
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 05 August 2003 04:27, Stephen Kuhn wrote: This is worth reading - especially if you're a recent convert to linux, or nice to hand out to people if you want to establish facts. http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,83708,00.html? nas=AM-83708 Definitely worth reading, Stephen. Thanks for the link. As a common user without any computing course or refined computing skills, I couldn't agree more with the article. One has only to be _open_ to learn more. I am not sure about this, but I think what kind of prevents Linux from growing in desktop use is a hardware item: the modem. It's extremely unbelievably hard to find modems that are compatible to Linux. I would have 'converted' many friends who have computers to Linux, I would even install Linux in their computers, but when I ask them what kind or brand of modem they have, either they do not know it or it is an on-board modem that is Windows-dependent. Maybe this impression is not so bleak. But I'm sure you guys out there can enlighten me. JM -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/L9Vl4eVBtrgQWDsRAnsDAKCi6nAb0I228CmVjoyZVzApmQQslQCeO9gh qNb+atQrpniA4vLhHUaQ9eU= =8isR -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
