Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 01:19, RichardA wrote: Stephen, it seems I owe you an apology. The only windows surfing I do these days is from a locked down desktop behind a Border Manager firewall. I had no idea things had changed so much. Gobsmacked, I am. Richard It's a war. It also seems that, for whatever reason, every time that M$ either does something publically, or shit is happening, the attacks get worse. By deduction, one would tend to think that the overall aim is to knock down Microsoft even more and bring more embarrassment to them publically; now that Microsoft has purchased RAV (sad sad sad - because I install it on all machines that come through the house) I would presume that the attacks are going to get even trickier, sneakier and more dangerous (for the Windows OS that is). Careful observation of public news and also hacker news seems to point in that general direction. In comparison to last year and the year before, it appears to have gotten much worse - upwards of more than 150% worse (and that's general). Either which, I am safe, and when I dump my customers' data on my drives, I clean it from linux which at least ensures the data integrity when the box leaves the house... -- Thu Jun 12 01:55:01 EST 2003 01:55:01 up 1:53, 3 users, load average: 0.27, 0.19, 0.10 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Odd objects attract fire never lurk behind one -- Murphy's Military Laws n67 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:48:24 +0200 MARTIN HENDRIK RAD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have Win 98 at work and I'm constantly being attacked by virii/worms/trojans (through email and an open share on the network), also gatorware, which once infected my pc and was a pain to disinfect... I have lately received many emails from [EMAIL PROTECTED], etc. etc. We have Norton as well as several specific apps running on boot/startup from the network to clean specific virii very time-consuming and still they come, several times a day. At home, on Mdk 9.1, I haven't had a single attack, all virii are blocked at the ISP (bless them) One day, when you lose five months worth of work (worth thousands of $$$) because of a virus, you will also discard your Windows CD in utter disgust and turn to Linux. Regards, Hendrik I _did_ discard my Windows CD. Also, since I posted the message you are replying to, I have been forcibly educated about how things are in Windows-land. Luckily, I didn't have to lose five months of work. Richard -- Registered Linux user 246658 at http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
it probably means that windows longhorn (the next windows release) will have integrated antivir.. so all the virus's will target that.. cool stuff. :-) rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Kuhn Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2003 12:00 AM To: Mandrake Newbie Subject: Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 01:19, RichardA wrote: Stephen, it seems I owe you an apology. The only windows surfing I do these days is from a locked down desktop behind a Border Manager firewall. I had no idea things had changed so much. Gobsmacked, I am. Richard It's a war. It also seems that, for whatever reason, every time that M$ either does something publically, or shit is happening, the attacks get worse. By deduction, one would tend to think that the overall aim is to knock down Microsoft even more and bring more embarrassment to them publically; now that Microsoft has purchased RAV (sad sad sad - because I install it on all machines that come through the house) I would presume that the attacks are going to get even trickier, sneakier and more dangerous (for the Windows OS that is). Careful observation of public news and also hacker news seems to point in that general direction. In comparison to last year and the year before, it appears to have gotten much worse - upwards of more than 150% worse (and that's general). Either which, I am safe, and when I dump my customers' data on my drives, I clean it from linux which at least ensures the data integrity when the box leaves the house... -- Thu Jun 12 01:55:01 EST 2003 01:55:01 up 1:53, 3 users, load average: 0.27, 0.19, 0.10 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Odd objects attract fire never lurk behind one -- Murphy's Military Laws n67 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
I have Win 98 at work and I'm constantly being attacked by virii/worms/trojans (through email and an open share on the network), also gatorware, which once infected my pc and was a pain to disinfect... I have lately received many emails from [EMAIL PROTECTED], etc. etc. We have Norton as well as several specific apps running on boot/startup from the network to clean specific virii very time-consuming and still they come, several times a day. At home, on Mdk 9.1, I haven't had a single attack, all virii are blocked at the ISP (bless them) One day, when you lose five months worth of work (worth thousands of $$$) because of a virus, you will also discard your Windows CD in utter disgust and turn to Linux. Regards, Hendrik -Original Message- From: RichardA [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 4:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses On 09 Jun 2003 09:13:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 02:00, Anne Wilson wrote: Look, even out of the box or brownbag - literally any linux distro upon initial installation and configuration (granted that passwords HAVE been put in place) is going to be able to sit nicely without very many issues as opposed to a Windows installation brownbag - the Win box is going to get hit FIRST TIME SURFING with either adware or spyware - irregardless of what or where the user surfs to - but that cannot happen on a linux box. I think that's a wild exaggeration. I surfed for years using Win98 and never once had a problem. Admittedly I was cautious, and later started using Eudora, Opera and ZoneAlarm, but I started out with IE, OE etc. Look at XP. It was released with a known vulnerabilty (UPNP), but many people are probably unpatched and still surfing without having been hit. Richard -- Registered Linux user 246658 at http://counter.li.org File: message.footer Disclaimer: http://www.sabc.co.za/disclaimer/emaildisclaimer.htm http://www.sabc.co.za/disclaimer/emaildisclaimer.htm Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 07:18:00 -0300 Cody Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I have no idea what it is and what it does or why it's needed. It's something that a lot of people use to guarantee that their e-mail is legit, which for some is really a necessity. HTML mail, however, is unreadable by many on the list who use mail clients in text mode or various other reasons. That is why on the sign-up page it asks nicely to send in plain text only. The GPG sig causes *no* problems for anyone, therefore it is not an issue on the list. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 09:21:08 up 6 days, 7:24, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On 09 Jun 2003 09:13:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 02:00, Anne Wilson wrote: Look, even out of the box or brownbag - literally any linux distro upon initial installation and configuration (granted that passwords HAVE been put in place) is going to be able to sit nicely without very many issues as opposed to a Windows installation brownbag - the Win box is going to get hit FIRST TIME SURFING with either adware or spyware - irregardless of what or where the user surfs to - but that cannot happen on a linux box. I think that's a wild exaggeration. I surfed for years using Win98 and never once had a problem. Admittedly I was cautious, and later started using Eudora, Opera and ZoneAlarm, but I started out with IE, OE etc. Look at XP. It was released with a known vulnerabilty (UPNP), but many people are probably unpatched and still surfing without having been hit. Richard -- Registered Linux user 246658 at http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:15:42 +0100 RichardA [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I think that's a wild exaggeration. I surfed for years using Win98 and never once had a problem. Admittedly I was cautious, and later started using Eudora, Opera and ZoneAlarm, but I started out with IE, OE etc. same experience here, but unfortunately it's not currently relevant. If you were using Win98 anything more than 3 years ago, you simply cannot compare the two time-frames. With worms and virii, it is literally reaching the point of exasperation with the majority of Windows users, and that has been the situation since maybe mid 2001. The problem certainly existed before that, obviously, but it's only been in the years since XP was released that it's become so egregious, since it includes so many features that enable users to do things like run an IIS web server without knowing the slightest thing about it, and the dangers involved. Steve Gibson was right, XP has been the worst thing to hit the internet since spam. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 10:21:38 up 6 days, 8:25, 3 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.04 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:26:55 -0400 JoeHill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:15:42 +0100 RichardA [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I think that's a wild exaggeration. I surfed for years using Win98 and never once had a problem. Admittedly I was cautious, and later started using Eudora, Opera and ZoneAlarm, but I started out with IE, OE etc. same experience here, but unfortunately it's not currently relevant. If you were using Win98 anything more than 3 years ago, you simply cannot compare the two time-frames. With worms and virii, it is literally reaching the point of exasperation with the majority of Windows users, and that has been the situation since maybe mid 2001. The problem certainly existed before that, obviously, but it's only been in the years since XP was released that it's become so egregious, since it includes so many features that enable users to do things like run an IIS web server without knowing the slightest thing about it, and the dangers involved. Steve Gibson was right, XP has been the worst thing to hit the internet since spam. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 10:21:38 up 6 days, 8:25, 3 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.04 Good point. I haven't used Windows at home for a while. I think the IIS thing started in Win2K. Our install instructions at work say tell it not to install IIS, then turn off the IIS it installed. Richard -- Registered Linux user 246658 at http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 00:15, RichardA wrote: I think that's a wild exaggeration. I surfed for years using Win98 and never once had a problem. Admittedly I was cautious, and later started using Eudora, Opera and ZoneAlarm, but I started out with IE, OE etc. Look at XP. It was released with a known vulnerabilty (UPNP), but many people are probably unpatched and still surfing without having been hit. Richard Exaggeration? Prime example. Yesterday, Monday, June 9, 2003 Fresh installation of XP Pro on customers workstation. Total time from start of installation to the last device drivers and system tweaking prior to getting onto the internet: 3hr. Customer does not have or want an antivirus program, nor any spyware/adware removers or monitors. Customer surfs around for about 30 minutes whilst I sit outside and smoke and have a few coffees. (Did Hotmail, dunno really where else she browsed, but that's no matter) Came back in, found a new toolbar on IE that wasn't there previously. Installed Spybot anyways, updated and disconnected. RAN Spybot in front of her. 11 spyware/adware backdoors and TWO toolbars (one didn't load for some reason). Let customer read through the Spybot information and the help. Loaded Spybot, Spysweeper, RAV Antivirus Desktop; updated all, cleaned up all remnants of shit. Rebooted twice to make sure everything was hunkydory. I'll not make any further allusions to that comment about wild exaggeration, Richard. Truth be told, you have absolutely no idea what is going on with a Windows machine when it's on the net. It's getting to be much worse than it was last year, or even last month for that matter. IF YOU'RE LUCKY, this doesn't necessarily happen to a Windows machine, but it is literally CyberWar right now - either with viruses and trojans, spyware, adware or Sub7's and BO's. We only have Microsoft to thank for that. -- Tue Jun 10 07:20:00 EST 2003 07:20:00 up 2 days, 17:11, 3 users, load average: 0.05, 0.07, 0.09 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
Hello Stephen, Monday, June 9, 2003, 2:28:40 PM, you wrote: SK I'll not make any further allusions to that comment about wild SK exaggeration, Richard. Truth be told, you have absolutely no idea SK what is going on with a Windows machine when it's on the net. It's SK getting to be much worse than it was last year, or even last month SK for that matter. I have Proxomitron set to show me many of the nefarious things that try to come in while surfing. In my experience, you are quite correct. Few people know how bad it is, because they don't have the tools to see it. The snoops try very hard to hide what they do, and it is not at all obvious to most everyone. I also agree that it is getting worse. -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sunday 08 Jun 2003 1:50 am, JoeHill wrote: On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 17:42:18 -0600 Windows is not built to be secure, Linux is. No - a properly configured and maintained Linux box is. There will always be vulnerabilities popping up in something that changes as often and fast as linux does. Only by keeping up with security updates do you stay secure. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:36:55 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: No - a properly configured and maintained Linux box is. There will always be vulnerabilities popping up in something that changes as often and fast as linux does. Only by keeping up with security updates do you stay secure. Agreed, keep in mind however that I am only talking about vulnerability to virii. Yes, if someone were to install Linux w/ a blank pass for root and then connect to the internet... I think it is a valid point, however, to say that out of the box Linux is not going to expose you to infections from virii, whereas a default install of Windows will. This is why so many people are starting to seriously consider switching their desktop to Linux. I can't tell you how many times I have installed Windows for someone and gotten a call the next day, I'm infected. Now I don't leave until they've installed AVG and disabled the various and sundry conveniences that are a virus writers wet dream. With Linux, I could at least leave them with a default install (strong passwords) and be reasonably sure that they're OK for the foreseeable future. I can tell them that it is *highly unlikely* that they will be compromised, but advise that a firewall is always a good idea and so on. With Windows, I tell people now, Have fun. As soon as they download and install software off the web, it's all over, firewall or no firewall. Linux? Well, not yet at least. These days, no user should sit back on their bottom and not worry about security. But I challenge anyone to send me a virus that will infect my system. I think the current challenge is something like 10 000 British pounds for someone to write a virus that will infect Linux. I would gladly double, triple that. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 10:58:44 up 5 days, 9:02, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sunday 08 Jun 2003 4:14 pm, JoeHill wrote: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:36:55 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: No - a properly configured and maintained Linux box is. There will always be vulnerabilities popping up in something that changes as often and fast as linux does. Only by keeping up with security updates do you stay secure. Agreed, keep in mind however that I am only talking about vulnerability to virii. Yes, if someone were to install Linux w/ a blank pass for root and then connect to the internet... Out of the box? Why do you think there are so many security updates for 9.1? (And 9.1 isn't an exception) By the time any distro gets out new vulnerabilities have been discovered. The good thing about linux is that they get fixed, and fast. But if you don't take the trouble to keep up with the fixes you are definitely not safe. Viruses, possibly, but there's more to it than that. So when a news item says 'Linux is no safer than Windows, out of the box' it's not as far wrong as you may think. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:00:29 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Viruses, possibly, but there's more to it than that. as I say, that's all i'm talking about. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 12:33:02 up 5 days, 10:36, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sunday 08 Jun 2003 7:42 pm, rikona wrote: Hello Stephen, Saturday, June 7, 2003, 2:35:43 PM, you wrote: SK Listings about linux virii: SK http://www.viruslist.com/eng/viruslistfind.asp?findWhere=011findTx t=linux There is mention of an ELF file type. What is that? executable linux file? Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:02:13 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is mention of an ELF file type. What is that? executable linux file? 1/3rd right Ann There are three main types for ELF files. -An executable file contains code and data suitable for execution. It specifies the memory layout of the process. -A relocatable file contains code and data suitable for linking with other relocatable and shared object files. -A shared object file (a.k.a. shared library) contains code and data suitable for the link editor ld at link time and the dynamic linker at run time. The dynamic linker may be called ld.so.1, libc.so.1 or ld-linux.so.1, depending on the implementation. Charles -- The weight in a backpack can never remain uniformly distributed -- Murphy's Laws of Camping n°18 - Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.21-0.1mdk - pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 15:02, Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 08 Jun 2003 7:42 pm, rikona wrote: Hello Stephen, Saturday, June 7, 2003, 2:35:43 PM, you wrote: SK Listings about linux virii: SK http://www.viruslist.com/eng/viruslistfind.asp?findWhere=011findTx t=linux There is mention of an ELF file type. What is that? executable linux file? Anne Executable and Linkable Format. -- __ / \\ @ __ __@ Adolfo Bello / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / // // /\ / \\ // \ // Bello Ingenieria S.A, ICQ: 65910258 / \\ // / \\ / // // / //mobile: +58 416 609-6213 /___// // / _/ \__\\ //__/ // fax : +58 212 952-6797 www.bisapi.com //pager : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
Why is there an attachment? At 03:10 PM 6/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:02:13 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is mention of an ELF file type. What is that? executable linux file? 1/3rd right Ann There are three main types for ELF files. -An executable file contains code and data suitable for execution. It specifies the memory layout of the process. -A relocatable file contains code and data suitable for linking with other relocatable and shared object files. -A shared object file (a.k.a. shared library) contains code and data suitable for the link editor ld at link time and the dynamic linker at run time. The dynamic linker may be called ld.so.1, libc.so.1 or ld-linux.so.1, depending on the implementation. Charles -- The weight in a backpack can never remain uniformly distributed -- Murphy's Laws of Camping n°18 - Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.21-0.1mdk - -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sunday 08 Jun 2003 8:10 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:02:13 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is mention of an ELF file type. What is that? executable linux file? 1/3rd right Ann There are three main types for ELF files. -An executable file contains code and data suitable for execution. It specifies the memory layout of the process. -A relocatable file contains code and data suitable for linking with other relocatable and shared object files. -A shared object file (a.k.a. shared library) contains code and data suitable for the link editor ld at link time and the dynamic linker at run time. The dynamic linker may be called ld.so.1, libc.so.1 or ld-linux.so.1, depending on the implementation. Charles Thanks, Charles. Another bit learned. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 16:15:21 -0300 Cody Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is there an attachment? gpg signature. Please Turn-off html Charles -- The sooner our happiness together begins, the longer it will last. -- Miramanee, The Paradise Syndrome, stardate 4842.6 - Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.21-0.1mdk - pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
At 03:46 PM 6/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 16:15:21 -0300 Cody Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why is there an attachment? gpg signature. Turn off your gpg sig first. Please Turn-off html Charles -- The sooner our happiness together begins, the longer it will last. -- Miramanee, The Paradise Syndrome, stardate 4842.6 - Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.21-0.1mdk - -Cody Harris ++ | Linux Rox My Sox! | | Check out HCHS! | | http://vectec.net | ++--+ | Proud to use Mandrake Linux 8.1 as a server. | | Not proud to use Windows as a primary server. | ++--+ | Registered Linux user #315598 | | Registered Linux Computer #200951 | | Wrote on a Windoze Computer :( | ++
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:11:26 -0300 Cody Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turn off your gpg sig first. Looks like my filters just got a new sender added. Charles -- Down with categorical imperative! - Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.21-0.1mdk - pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:11:26 -0300 Cody Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Turn off your gpg sig first. please tell me yer just jokin' right? -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 16:36:41 up 5 days, 14:40, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
Hello Anne, Sunday, June 8, 2003, 9:00:29 AM, you wrote: AW So when a news item says 'Linux is no safer than Windows, out of AW the box' it's not as far wrong as you may think. I have major heartburn with the installation defaults in Win - everything open. Users love it - they can chat, have 'rich media experiences' on the web, just about anything you receive gets run. It makes hackers salivate uncontrollably. :-)) Also, if you use the net regularly in your day-to-day activities, your life will be a complete open book. You will end up with a dossier that would make the CIA green with envy. Linux seems to have much more sensible, and safer, install defaults. -- Thank you, rikonamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sunday 08 June 2003 12:33 pm, JoeHill wrote: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:00:29 +0100 Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Viruses, possibly, but there's more to it than that. as I say, that's all i'm talking about. Many of these Linux is buggier than Windows articles are based on Enron-style accounting. Typically, they do this counting a single flaw that is discovered in some common Linux program multiple times: For example, a vulnerability is discovered in SendMail. RedHat releases a fix: Plus one. Suse releases a fix: Plus one. Mandrake releases a fix: Plus one. Debian releases a fix: Plus one. etc, etc, etc. Pretty soon, the one vulnerability gets reported as seven vulnerabilities. Next: Many open source flaws are discovered by someone looking at the code; if you read the reports, you see that nothing bad has occurred yet as a result of the vulnerability, but it could occur. In contrast, most Microsoft flaws are discovered when people see smoke coming from their servers, and the whole damn web is suddenly brought to its knees. Another: Open sources flaws are usually resolved within a few days of discovery; sometimes even sooner. By contrast, there's the Microsoft approach: First, denial. Second, say that it is under study (sometimes this is accompanied by a recommendation that various features be turned off). Third, issue a patch. Fourth, issue a patch for the patch. Repeat until the next version of Windows is to be inflicted on the public, telling them that this new pile of stuff is much more reliable and safer than that POS we sold you two years ago. Yet more: AFAIK, open source mail readers do not open executables. Since email is the primary means for transmitting virii and worms, any Linuxer is automatically way ahead of the game. Do any consumer-level versions of Windows contain any form of security? Is the subject even mentioned during the installation process? (I gave up after 98SE, so I'm not hip about XP Home.) A bit like buying a house without locks on the doors, isn't it? -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sunday 08 Jun 2003 9:55 pm, rikona wrote: Hello Anne, Sunday, June 8, 2003, 9:00:29 AM, you wrote: AW So when a news item says 'Linux is no safer than Windows, out of AW the box' it's not as far wrong as you may think. I have major heartburn with the installation defaults in Win - everything open. Users love it - they can chat, have 'rich media experiences' on the web, just about anything you receive gets run. It makes hackers salivate uncontrollably. :-)) Also, if you use the net regularly in your day-to-day activities, your life will be a complete open book. You will end up with a dossier that would make the CIA green with envy. Linux seems to have much more sensible, and safer, install defaults. In the end, it's the fact that it's so configurable that is good. But we are each responsible for our own safety. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 02:00, Anne Wilson wrote: Out of the box? Why do you think there are so many security updates for 9.1? Look, even out of the box or brownbag - literally any linux distro upon initial installation and configuration (granted that passwords HAVE been put in place) is going to be able to sit nicely without very many issues as opposed to a Windows installation brownbag - the Win box is going to get hit FIRST TIME SURFING with either adware or spyware - irregardless of what or where the user surfs to - but that cannot happen on a linux box. And we've got to clarify some things - for Windows, it's viruses, trojans, adware and spyware. For linux/unix, it's trojans. -- Mon Jun 9 09:10:00 EST 2003 09:10:00 up 1 day, 19:01, 3 users, load average: 0.22, 0.17, 0.10 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out. -- (Terry Pratchett Neil Gaiman, Good Omens) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re[2]: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 04:42, rikona wrote: Hello Stephen, Saturday, June 7, 2003, 2:35:43 PM, you wrote: SK Listings about linux virii: SK http://www.viruslist.com/eng/viruslistfind.asp?findWhere=011findTxt=linux There is mention of an ELF file type. What is that? ELF and AOUT are types of system binaries. ELF support is still available for some older programs, but really nothing to be bothered with anymore as applications have evolved beyond that stage now. -- Mon Jun 9 09:25:01 EST 2003 09:25:01 up 1 day, 19:16, 3 users, load average: 0.43, 0.18, 0.10 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * audophile, n: Someone who listens to the equipment instead of the music. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On 09 Jun 2003 09:13:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: And we've got to clarify some things - for Windows, it's viruses, trojans, adware and spyware. For linux/unix, it's trojans. ah yes, I didn't think of Trojans. Is that what is usually considered a rootkit? -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 19:33:42 up 5 days, 17:37, 4 users, load average: 0.03, 0.03, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 05:15, Cody Harris wrote: Why is there an attachment? Why is there snow on the top of Mt. Everest? Why does the electron circle the nucleus? Why is water wet? Why can't you weigh anything with fish scales? Why ask why? BUD DRY! -- Mon Jun 9 09:35:00 EST 2003 09:35:00 up 1 day, 19:26, 3 users, load average: 0.03, 0.07, 0.08 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * He is not only dull himself, he is the cause of dullness in others. -- Samuel Johnson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 06:16, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:11:26 -0300 Cody Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Turn off your gpg sig first. Looks like my filters just got a new sender added. Charles ...and I've been waiting for SOMEONE to be the first...(g) -- Mon Jun 9 09:50:01 EST 2003 09:50:01 up 1 day, 19:41, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.08, 0.08 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Toes, knees, NIPPLES. Toes, knees, nipples, KNUCKLES ... Nipples, dimples, knuckles, NICKLES, wrinkles, pimples!! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 19:37, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 05:15, Cody Harris wrote: Why is there an attachment? Why is there snow on the top of Mt. Everest? Why does the electron circle the nucleus? Why is water wet? Why can't you weigh anything with fish scales? Why ask why? BUD DRY! NO MORE CAFFEINE Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 09:34, JoeHill wrote: On 09 Jun 2003 09:13:25 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: And we've got to clarify some things - for Windows, it's viruses, trojans, adware and spyware. For linux/unix, it's trojans. ah yes, I didn't think of Trojans. Is that what is usually considered a rootkit? Same diff. -- Mon Jun 9 10:20:01 EST 2003 10:20:01 up 1 day, 20:11, 3 users, load average: 0.04, 0.04, 0.06 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Latin is a language, As dead as can be. First it killed the Romans, And now it's killing me. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 10:00, ed tharp wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 19:37, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 05:15, Cody Harris wrote: Why is there an attachment? Why is there snow on the top of Mt. Everest? Why does the electron circle the nucleus? Why is water wet? Why can't you weigh anything with fish scales? Why ask why? BUD DRY! NO MORE CAFFEINE Damn, you're about as fun as funeral. -- Mon Jun 9 10:20:01 EST 2003 10:20:01 up 1 day, 20:11, 3 users, load average: 0.04, 0.04, 0.06 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Latin is a language, As dead as can be. First it killed the Romans, And now it's killing me. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On 09 Jun 2003 10:21:29 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Same diff. Found this if anyone doesn't already know about it: http://www.chkrootkit.org/ will check for trojans/rootkits, and it's available through urpmi. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 20:34:35 up 5 days, 18:38, 4 users, load average: 0.20, 0.11, 0.05 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 17:00, ed tharp wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 19:37, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 05:15, Cody Harris wrote: Why is there an attachment? Why is there snow on the top of Mt. Everest? Why does the electron circle the nucleus? Why is water wet? Why can't you weigh anything with fish scales? Why ask why? BUD DRY! NO MORE CAFFEINE Nah! he's been into the adult beverages again __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Aron Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sunday 08 June 2003 08:00 pm, ed tharp wrote: On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 19:37, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 05:15, Cody Harris wrote: Why is there an attachment? Why is there snow on the top of Mt. Everest? Why does the electron circle the nucleus? Why is water wet? Why can't you weigh anything with fish scales? Why ask why? BUD DRY! NO MORE CAFFEINE And vanishingly small amounts of alcohol. Think of it as the Microsoft Bob of beers. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On 08 Jun 2003 08:13:07 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Look, spend some time in READING about linux/unix viruses/trojans. Use that tiny bit of grey matter I reckon you still have to digest what is said in the documentation. You'll start to understand not only the differences in between the engines necessary to damage a unix/linux box, but the difficulties that are inherently there as well. I gotta start making my sarcasm more obvious... -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 18:51:08 up 4 days, 16:54, 4 users, load average: 0.06, 0.03, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 17:42:18 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: sorry joe i don' tbuy that. Hehe... i read alot of security focus articles and well call me totally tinfoil hat paranoid but i tend to believe linux can be just as vulnerable to virii as winsux. Theoretically, yes. But that's like saying because it's theoretically possible to break into a bank vault, then that bank vault is just as vulnerable as my house. For a virus to be effective, it requires a certain environment, and that environment simply does not exist under Linux. This is according to current definitions of what a virus *is*, of course, but as Stephen pointed out, lotsa people *have* tried to code virii that will automatically infect a Linux box, but have never had much success. Those Sec Foc reports are fatally flawed in one main respect: they count any free or open source platform as Linux, even though there may be third party software involved (ie. non-Linux). But they also give every exploit equal weight, when any security expert will tell you that the actual or potential threat varies between exploits. Windows is not built to be secure, Linux is. -- Joehill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net 20:20:49 up 4 days, 18:24, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] HIJACKED: Linux viruses
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 08:51, JoeHill wrote: I gotta start making my sarcasm more obvious... You live in Canada. You're not allowed to be sarcastic. -- Sun Jun 8 13:45:00 EST 2003 13:45:00 up 23:36, 3 users, load average: 0.04, 0.12, 0.07 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Mulder: They're here, aren't they? Deep Throat: Mr Mulder, they've been here for a long, long time. The X-Files: Deep Throat Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
