Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 20:26 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 08:19 pm, Jack wrote: I seem to have more recent versions and I also have Mandrake 10.1 community. I suppose that could be making a difference also. I could remove the later versions of the C compiler and install your versions. Would you suggest that? Hmmm... Not sure if you should remove those RPM's, as there are quite a few dependancies for them. I will do a little checking, and see what else I can find out, and will post back in a few (possibly with a better answer)... Any updates on this problem? - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
Jack wrote: I think xosl is now called osl2000, which is the boot manager I'm using... - Jack From what I can gather from the osl2000 web site, XOSL is an entirely different boot manager. I haven't tried the osl2000 product, but based on the screenshots, I'd still prefer XOSL. It looks like the original web site is down, but is mirrored here, including the download section as well as the docs and screenshots. http://www2.arnes.si/~fkomar/xosl.org/ I wasn't able to discover whether osl2000 fits inside the MBR, though I am guessing that it does because it claims not to need a FAT or NTFS partition to install into. Based on what I read, XOSL does a better job of hiding partitions, and since it does not have to fit into the MBR, offers the ability to have multiple backup copies of changed MBRs as well as lots better graphical setup and configuration screens. Take a look at XOSL and let me know what you think, you've got osl2000 experience and I don't. Rick Kunath Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 00:18 +0200, Kaj Haulrich wrote: On Tuesday 19 October 2004 23:17, Jack wrote: snip Perhaps a power-user like you can make it recognize my Canon D760 printer/copier but I can't, especially when there is no driver *anywhere* for it. /snip Have you tried Turboprint ? http://www.turboprint.de/english.html Thanks Kaj... I looked at the site you posted but there is no driver for my Canon D760... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Wed, 2004-10-20 at 10:41 -0400, Rick Kunath wrote: From what I can gather from the osl2000 web site, XOSL is an entirely different boot manager. I haven't tried the osl2000 product, but based on the screenshots, I'd still prefer XOSL. It looks like the original web site is down, but is mirrored here, including the download section as well as the docs and screenshots. http://www2.arnes.si/~fkomar/xosl.org/ I wasn't able to discover whether osl2000 fits inside the MBR, though I am guessing that it does because it claims not to need a FAT or NTFS partition to install into. Based on what I read, XOSL does a better job of hiding partitions, and since it does not have to fit into the MBR, offers the ability to have multiple backup copies of changed MBRs as well as lots better graphical setup and configuration screens. Take a look at XOSL and let me know what you think, you've got osl2000 experience and I don't. Rick Kunath Looks good Rick... I've downloaded it and might give it a shot when/if I have to do a reinstall... Right now, I'm very happy with osl2000. It even enables me to boot into Linux from my XP desktop, if I should want to do that... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
Jack wrote: It tends to make me wary but how does one learn without fooling around. :-) I have now abandoned Drive Image for Paragon Drive Backup 6.0 which comes highly recommended. It even uses Linux on it's recovery CD. I do *not* want to have to depend on Window's repair function. Excellent move. I gave up on Partition Magic (and Drive Image) around Linux years ago for the better Paragon Hard Disk Manager product (it includes Drive Backup and some other useful utilities.) (I'm not associated with them, just a happy user.) One of the problems with Partition Magic is that it expects the partitions to end on a cylinder boundary like Windows does. Linux and other operating systems don't have this limitation and can end a partition anywhere (and M$ OS's will install and work fine when installed into a partition not ending on a cylinder boundary.) That's why sometimes mixing partition utilities can cause issues. Best bet is to stick to one, Mandrake's is a good one, or if you need one to use in Windows take a look at the Paragon product. I haven't had issues mixing Paragon with Mandrake's DiskDrake, but Paragon does include a Linux version of it's partition manager utility on the install CD if you're nervous. As to blowing out your MBR... Here's what I have done for years: Use Paragon or your preferred partition manager to create your partition structure, but don't do any formatting yet. You can use DiskDrake if you get to the partitioning part of the install and then abort it. Create a small FAT16 or FAT32 partition at the beginning of the drive. You're going to install XOSL here, but if you want a working DOS installation, you can install it here too. I sometimes have a need to keep one around for software that hasn't been updated and probably won't ever be. 100 megs is plenty unless you know you need more. For XOSL alone 10 megs will do. Then create the Windows partition, your extended partition, and any logicals you need for your favorite Linux partitioning scheme, but don't format yet. At the very least you'll need one for the main Linux file system (and probably you should look at separating some of the tree, there is plenty of info out there on partitioning schemes for Linux), and one for Linux swap. Get your Windows installation working next. Let it install into the primary partition you created for it and do the NTFS formatting. Then complete the install and get it working. Once you have Windows working use it to format the small partition you created at the beginning of the drive as FAT16 or FAT32. After this is complete I generally set Windows to hide the partition so it won't grab a drive letter. If you need a FAT32 partition for data interchange, put it somewhere else, in your extended partition before or after your Linux partitions would be a good place, and create it before installing Windows along with the other partitions. Use Windows to format this partition if you decided you needed to create one (I generally don't.) Next grab XOSL from www.xosl.org and install it into the small partition you created at the beginning of the drive. XOSL hasn't been changed for a while, but it works flawlessly. It is a boot manager and loader, but because of it's features can't fit in the MBR alone. You can install it into a hidden partition if you'd like, but I generally use a FAT32 partition and install DOS too. It'll set the partition as a Novell type if you want it hidden, though you can't do anything else with the partition then. Install instructions are on the site, and installing is a snap. One of the nice things that XOSL will do is create backups of the MBR whenever it is changed. You can then install these if needed again later on. You'll have a copy if you ever have an MBR oops. From the menu of XOSL you can choose to hide a particular partition depending on which OS you're going to boot, and you can manage your operating system boot menu with ease. Once installed, set up the menu to boot Windows and test it. (XOSL will have a copy of the Windows MBR it will use to boot from now on.) Once you have all this done, install Linux. Make sure to choose to install lilo or grub into the *boot sector* of the Linux partition and not the *MBR* when you do your Linux install. Look under advanced if you don't see this setting in the bootloader section of the Linux install. Once Linux is installed, add your Linux partition to the XOSL boot list. It'll be easy to do from a graphical setup screen of XOSL listing your partitions. Select Linux and test the boot. I've installed multiple Linux distros using XOSL and had separate swap partitions, hiding the ones not in use from each other. The XOSL docs describe how to hide partitions you want to keep separate from each other for multiple distro installations prior to actually doing the install. It is actually a snap to do. This way they won't try to use existing compatible partitions or upgrade
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:32 -0500, Dennis Myers wrote: used to be you could start up in dos and give fdisk MBR and it would reset the windows bootup. Does this no longer work in 10.1? or 10.0? Anybody know? I think it would still work... but not if you're using a 3rd party boot manager like I am... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:49 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: Wow, sounds like you had a rough time of it Jack. I have been there done that - my MBR got wiped out on several occasions when I had a dual boot system. The one thing I did that solved that was to completely wipe out the Windows partition and go strictly Linux. Haven't had that problem since! ;-) While I really like Linux, it's not ready for primetime on my system yet. Perhaps a power-user like you can make it recognize my Canon D760 printer/copier but I can't, especially when there is no driver *anywhere* for it. Also, as you may have noticed in the KDETV thread, I can't get my video capture Nvidia to work with it. (And I will not install the separate Nvidia drivers for it. I've done a lot of reading and there are a lot of horror stories out there.) Plus, there are a couple of games that won't run under Wine that I like. Linux has the same problem as OS/2 did years ago. I loved OS/2 (and still consider it better than Windows) but I gave it up because the mainstream wasn't writing for it. Perhaps in a couple of years, Linux will become so popular that *every* printer and graphics card manufacturer will write drivers which you won't need a college degree to install. But till then... (Incidentally, Mozilla Firefox has shown how things could be in Linux. It installs as easily in Linux (regardless of version) as it does in Windows.) - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 08:32 -0400, Rick Kunath wrote: I gave up on Partition Magic (and Drive Image) around Linux years ago for the better Paragon Hard Disk Manager product (it includes Drive Backup and some other useful utilities.) (I'm not associated with them, just a happy user.) One of the problems with Partition Magic is that it expects the partitions to end on a cylinder boundary like Windows does. Linux and other operating systems don't have this limitation and can end a partition anywhere (and M$ OS's will install and work fine when installed into a partition not ending on a cylinder boundary.) That's why sometimes mixing partition utilities can cause issues. Best bet is to stick to one, Mandrake's is a good one, or if you need one to use in Windows take a look at the Paragon product. I haven't had issues mixing Paragon with Mandrake's DiskDrake, but Paragon does include a Linux version of it's partition manager utility on the install CD if you're nervous. As to blowing out your MBR... Here's what I have done for years: Use Paragon or your preferred partition manager to create your partition structure, but don't do any formatting yet. You can use DiskDrake if you get to the partitioning part of the install and then abort it. Create a small FAT16 or FAT32 partition at the beginning of the drive. You're going to install XOSL here, but if you want a working DOS installation, you can install it here too. I sometimes have a need to keep one around for software that hasn't been updated and probably won't ever be. 100 megs is plenty unless you know you need more. For XOSL alone 10 megs will do. Then create the Windows partition, your extended partition, and any logicals you need for your favorite Linux partitioning scheme, but don't format yet. At the very least you'll need one for the main Linux file system (and probably you should look at separating some of the tree, there is plenty of info out there on partitioning schemes for Linux), and one for Linux swap. Get your Windows installation working next. Let it install into the primary partition you created for it and do the NTFS formatting. Then complete the install and get it working. Once you have Windows working use it to format the small partition you created at the beginning of the drive as FAT16 or FAT32. After this is complete I generally set Windows to hide the partition so it won't grab a drive letter. If you need a FAT32 partition for data interchange, put it somewhere else, in your extended partition before or after your Linux partitions would be a good place, and create it before installing Windows along with the other partitions. Use Windows to format this partition if you decided you needed to create one (I generally don't.) Next grab XOSL from www.xosl.org and install it into the small partition you created at the beginning of the drive. XOSL hasn't been changed for a while, but it works flawlessly. It is a boot manager and loader, but because of it's features can't fit in the MBR alone. You can install it into a hidden partition if you'd like, but I generally use a FAT32 partition and install DOS too. It'll set the partition as a Novell type if you want it hidden, though you can't do anything else with the partition then. Install instructions are on the site, and installing is a snap. One of the nice things that XOSL will do is create backups of the MBR whenever it is changed. You can then install these if needed again later on. You'll have a copy if you ever have an MBR oops. From the menu of XOSL you can choose to hide a particular partition depending on which OS you're going to boot, and you can manage your operating system boot menu with ease. Once installed, set up the menu to boot Windows and test it. (XOSL will have a copy of the Windows MBR it will use to boot from now on.) Once you have all this done, install Linux. Make sure to choose to install lilo or grub into the *boot sector* of the Linux partition and not the *MBR* when you do your Linux install. Look under advanced if you don't see this setting in the bootloader section of the Linux install. Once Linux is installed, add your Linux partition to the XOSL boot list. It'll be easy to do from a graphical setup screen of XOSL listing your partitions. Select Linux and test the boot. I've installed multiple Linux distros using XOSL and had separate swap partitions, hiding the ones not in use from each other. The XOSL docs describe how to hide partitions you want to keep separate from each other for multiple distro installations prior to actually doing the install. It is actually a snap to do. This way they won't try to use existing compatible partitions or upgrade them. I have had multiple Windows versions, several Linux distros, and Solaris installed on a single hard drive using this scenario. (*Always* create the
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Tuesday 19 October 2004 23:17, Jack wrote: snip Perhaps a power-user like you can make it recognize my Canon D760 printer/copier but I can't, especially when there is no driver *anywhere* for it. /snip Have you tried Turboprint ? http://www.turboprint.de/english.html HTH Kaj Haulrich. -- *sent from a 100% Microsoft-free workstation* * http://haulrich.net * *Running Linux (Mandrake 10.1) - kernel 2.6.8* Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 07:26 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Sunday 17 October 2004 12:00 am, Jack wrote: Yes I do. On another matter... Is it possible that Konstruct interfered with my winXP setup on c: drive? I just spent the last 2 hours recovering my windows system. I might have mentioned that I'm dual-booting. Does konstruct do anything to the c: drive (hda)? My linux is on hdc and nothing from here should touch hda. Actually no - not that I can see anyway. I grepped through the source, looking for anything to do with hda, and got nothing. I haven't read any reports of it messing with any other partitions either. What happened to the partition? I take it it was something that was able to be recovered? (no permanent damage?) Hi Randall... My XP partition went poof. I think it was a faulty mbr. My Drive Image 7.0 image backup didn't work so I was forced to unhook my boot manager, rebuild XP with the repair function, and then re-install my boot manager. All told it took me 2 hours. This is not the first time fooling around with something in Linux has killed my XP partition. (You'd think having each operating system on separate disks would prevent these problems but it doesn't apparently.) It tends to make me wary but how does one learn without fooling around. :-) I have now abandoned Drive Image for Paragon Drive Backup 6.0 which comes highly recommended. It even uses Linux on it's recovery CD. I do *not* want to have to depend on Window's repair function. It takes as long as a full install. Paragon DB even images my Linux installation so now I should be doubly protected (though I would prefer to never have to find out if I truly am). - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Monday 18 October 2004 08:07 pm, Jack wrote: On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 07:26 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Sunday 17 October 2004 12:00 am, Jack wrote: Yes I do. On another matter... Is it possible that Konstruct interfered with my winXP setup on c: drive? I just spent the last 2 hours recovering my windows system. I might have mentioned that I'm dual-booting. Does konstruct do anything to the c: drive (hda)? My linux is on hdc and nothing from here should touch hda. Actually no - not that I can see anyway. I grepped through the source, looking for anything to do with hda, and got nothing. I haven't read any reports of it messing with any other partitions either. What happened to the partition? I take it it was something that was able to be recovered? (no permanent damage?) Hi Randall... My XP partition went poof. I think it was a faulty mbr. My Drive Image 7.0 image backup didn't work so I was forced to unhook my boot manager, rebuild XP with the repair function, and then re-install my boot manager. All told it took me 2 hours. This is not the first time fooling around with something in Linux has killed my XP partition. (You'd think having each operating system on separate disks would prevent these problems but it doesn't apparently.) It tends to make me wary but how does one learn without fooling around. :-) I have now abandoned Drive Image for Paragon Drive Backup 6.0 which comes highly recommended. It even uses Linux on it's recovery CD. I do *not* want to have to depend on Window's repair function. It takes as long as a full install. Paragon DB even images my Linux installation so now I should be doubly protected (though I would prefer to never have to find out if I truly am). - Jack used to be you could start up in dos and give fdisk MBR and it would reset the windows bootup. Does this no longer work in 10.1? or 10.0? Anybody know? -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Monday 18 October 2004 09:32 pm, Dennis Myers wrote: Hi Randall... My XP partition went poof. I think it was a faulty mbr. My Drive Image 7.0 image backup didn't work so I was forced to unhook my boot manager, rebuild XP with the repair function, and then re-install my boot manager. All told it took me 2 hours. This is not the first time fooling around with something in Linux has killed my XP partition. (You'd think having each operating system on separate disks would prevent these problems but it doesn't apparently.) It tends to make me wary but how does one learn without fooling around. :-) I have now abandoned Drive Image for Paragon Drive Backup 6.0 which comes highly recommended. It even uses Linux on it's recovery CD. I do *not* want to have to depend on Window's repair function. It takes as long as a full install. Paragon DB even images my Linux installation so now I should be doubly protected (though I would prefer to never have to find out if I truly am). - Jack Wow, sounds like you had a rough time of it Jack. I have been there done that - my MBR got wiped out on several occasions when I had a dual boot system. The one thing I did that solved that was to completely wipe out the Windows partition and go strictly Linux. Haven't had that problem since! ;-) I won't point fingers and tell you you need to drop Windows altogether though - I think it's just a matter of convenience - you have to have what you need to work AND play. Once you get comfortable enough with Linux, you'll probably drop Windows anyway. It gets to a point where you just can't deal with the gaping security holes and the way Microsoft tries to close them (it's like the little Dutch boy and the hole in the dam - but instead of Microsoft putting their finger in it, they put a boatload of new holes and then they tear down the walkway to get to it). That's just my humble opinion though... used to be you could start up in dos and give fdisk MBR and it would reset the windows bootup. Does this no longer work in 10.1? or 10.0? Anybody know? Dennis, I do believe you are correct there. The trick is to disconnect the Linux drive, and then use fdisk /mbr to fix the master boot record on the main drive. Actually, then you just swap the drives around so that Grub or Lilo and Linux is the main drive (hda), and then let Grub or Lilo reverse map the other drive so that Windows THINKS it's the only operating system on the first drive, while in reality it's the OTHER operating system on the second drive (this enables you to have many boot options, including multiple copies of Windows, etc.) -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 20:19, Jack wrote: On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 19:59 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 07:53 pm, Jack wrote: gcc4.0-c++-4.0.0-0.1mdk libgcc1-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-4.0.0-0.1mdk gcc-cpp-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-cpp-4.0.0-0.1mdk Hmmm... I wonder if it's due to the GCC version? I've got: # rpm -qa | grep gcc libgcc1-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-cpp-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-c++-3.3.2-6mdk # gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-mandrake-linux-gnu/3.3.2/specs Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib --with-slibdir=/lib --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --disable-checking --enable-long-long --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-languages=c,c++,ada,f77,objc,java,pascal --host=i586-mandrake-linux-gnu --with-system-zlib Thread model: posix gcc version 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk) I'll see if I can find some info on that... First I tried it as unprivileged user (as the readme said I could do). When that didn't work, I tried it as root. Same result both times... Yeah, theoretically both should work. Sometimes I've seen strange results when not installing as root (just due to permission problems), but this pretty much rules that out. I seem to have more recent versions and I also have Mandrake 10.1 community. I suppose that could be making a difference also. I could remove the later versions of the C compiler and install your versions. Would you suggest that? - Jack Sometimes it depends on what version of gcc your kernal was compiled with. If you can figure that out it might help to switch to that version. -- Regards; Hoyt Registered Linux User #363264 http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sunday 17 October 2004 12:00 am, Jack wrote: Yes I do. On another matter... Is it possible that Konstruct interfered with my winXP setup on c: drive? I just spent the last 2 hours recovering my windows system. I might have mentioned that I'm dual-booting. Does konstruct do anything to the c: drive (hda)? My linux is on hdc and nothing from here should touch hda. Actually no - not that I can see anyway. I grepped through the source, looking for anything to do with hda, and got nothing. I haven't read any reports of it messing with any other partitions either. What happened to the partition? I take it it was something that was able to be recovered? (no permanent damage?) -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
Is there any way of installing KDE 3.3 *without removing KDE 3.2*? I've read quite a few accounts of a straight KDE upgrade de-stabilizing some systems. I would like the option of simply logging in back to 3.2 if this should happen to my system. Anyone know how to do this? - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 12:14 pm, Jack wrote: Is there any way of installing KDE 3.3 *without removing KDE 3.2*? I've read quite a few accounts of a straight KDE upgrade de-stabilizing some systems. I would like the option of simply logging in back to 3.2 if this should happen to my system. Anyone know how to do this? Hi Jack. You can use Konstruct to do this. Download the latest stable release from here: http://developer.kde.org/build/konstruct/ Make sure you have the following RPM's installed: autoconf2.5 tiff-devel libldap2-devel bzip2-devel With URPMI, just issue the following: # urpmi autoconf2.5 tiff-devel libldap2-devel bzip2-devel Make sure you go into text only mode before you start to build KDE: # init 3 Now, go into the konstruct directory and edit gar.conf.mk, making sure everything is set the way you want it (it defaults to setting up KDE in your home directory, but you can easily put it system wide - if you want to see my copy of the gar.conf.mk to do that, let me know). Now, just go into the meta/everything directory (if you want to build KDE with all of the utilities and whatnot), and just issue a 'make install'. Building KDE from scratch does indeed take awhile, even on a fairly fast machine. I built mine system wide, and I have been VERY impressed with it (I'm running 3.3.1). It took over 8 hours to download and compile (I'm running on an Athlon 2400+XP, with 1 gig of dual channel 333MHz RAM (running at 266MHz, with the compiler optimized for AMD Athlon XP), and a cable connection that nets me a download speed of over 635K per sec. from certain servers). So, as you can see, it'll take awhile no matter what you're using, but it's well worth the wait. The best thing to do is, start it before you go to bed, and when you get up in the morning just check to make sure it's not needing something else - more than likely, if you have those packages installed that I listed above, you won't need anything else. Just be patient and let it build, and then give it a try when it's done. Let us know how it turns out for you if you give it a try... -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 Oct 2004 18:14, Jack wrote: Is there any way of installing KDE 3.3 *without removing KDE 3.2*? I've read quite a few accounts of a straight KDE upgrade de-stabilizing some systems. I would like the option of simply logging in back to 3.2 if this should happen to my system. Anyone know how to do this? Not me, sorry. Please read http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette on the subject of hijacking. You will get better results if you understand the main problems and solutions. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 19:08 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 16 Oct 2004 18:14, Jack wrote: Is there any way of installing KDE 3.3 *without removing KDE 3.2*? I've read quite a few accounts of a straight KDE upgrade de-stabilizing some systems. I would like the option of simply logging in back to 3.2 if this should happen to my system. Anyone know how to do this? Not me, sorry. Please read http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MandrakeMailingListEtiquette on the subject of hijacking. You will get better results if you understand the main problems and solutions. Anne Oh, geez, sorry Anne. I never realized that this was hijacking. I've been doing in for years in the Windows world and never realized I was doing something wrong. I assumed that once you changed the subject, the original thread would be discarded. Once again, sorry, and now that I know better, I won't do it again... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 12:41 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 12:14 pm, Jack wrote: Is there any way of installing KDE 3.3 *without removing KDE 3.2*? I've read quite a few accounts of a straight KDE upgrade de-stabilizing some systems. I would like the option of simply logging in back to 3.2 if this should happen to my system. Anyone know how to do this? Hi Jack. You can use Konstruct to do this. Download the latest stable release from here: http://developer.kde.org/build/konstruct/ Make sure you have the following RPM's installed: autoconf2.5 tiff-devel libldap2-devel bzip2-devel With URPMI, just issue the following: # urpmi autoconf2.5 tiff-devel libldap2-devel bzip2-devel Make sure you go into text only mode before you start to build KDE: # init 3 Now, go into the konstruct directory and edit gar.conf.mk, making sure everything is set the way you want it (it defaults to setting up KDE in your home directory, but you can easily put it system wide - if you want to see my copy of the gar.conf.mk to do that, let me know). Now, just go into the meta/everything directory (if you want to build KDE with all of the utilities and whatnot), and just issue a 'make install'. Building KDE from scratch does indeed take awhile, even on a fairly fast machine. I built mine system wide, and I have been VERY impressed with it (I'm running 3.3.1). It took over 8 hours to download and compile (I'm running on an Athlon 2400+XP, with 1 gig of dual channel 333MHz RAM (running at 266MHz, with the compiler optimized for AMD Athlon XP), and a cable connection that nets me a download speed of over 635K per sec. from certain servers). So, as you can see, it'll take awhile no matter what you're using, but it's well worth the wait. The best thing to do is, start it before you go to bed, and when you get up in the morning just check to make sure it's not needing something else - more than likely, if you have those packages installed that I listed above, you won't need anything else. Just be patient and let it build, and then give it a try when it's done. Let us know how it turns out for you if you give it a try... Hi Randall... thanks for the reply. Being a silver member of Mandrake Club, I already have CD4 with the KDE 3.3 on it. Is there a way of doing this using the install drake instead? Or failing that, is there a way of adapting your technique to eliminate the necessity of downloading the KDE 3.3 and getting if from my cd instead? And finally, I would most definitely want to see a copy of your gar.conf.mk to make sure I was doing everything right. (On a minor note, would allowing the default of setting up KDE 3.3 in my home directory okay? Would that leave the 3.2 alone? Would I then have the 2 KDE's showing up as desktop options upon logging in?) - Jack PS Sorry for the completely newbie type questions. Having formerly consulted in the Windows (and Dos) world for years, I'm gaining an appreciation for how my customers must have felt!!! :-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 02:11 pm, Jack wrote: Hi Randall... thanks for the reply. Being a silver member of Mandrake Club, I already have CD4 with the KDE 3.3 on it. Is there a way of doing this using the install drake instead? Or failing that, is there a way of adapting your technique to eliminate the necessity of downloading the KDE 3.3 and getting if from my cd instead? And finally, I would most definitely want to see a copy of your gar.conf.mk to make sure I was doing everything right. Unofortunately, the RPM's wouldn't afford you the ability to build it in another location. They're set up to install system wide, and will overwrite the existing RPM's with the new version (or should I say UPGRADE). You could probably do it with the source RPM's, but you're looking at modifying them much past the point of it being useful, so I would definitely recommend just letting it download the tar.bz2 files and compiling it from scratch. I've also attached the configuration file to this post (hopefully it won't be stripped out). If it is, I'll attach it and send it directly. Note that this configuration file is set up for Athlon XP and system wide install. The default settings should be OK for installing into your home directory, and you might want to uncomment out the optimization that fits your processor type. (On a minor note, would allowing the default of setting up KDE 3.3 in my home directory okay? Would that leave the 3.2 alone? Would I then have the 2 KDE's showing up as desktop options upon logging in?) Sure. Setting it up in your home directory will allow you to go with either version whenever you choose. If you install 3.3.1 and decide you like it, you might then decide to install it system wide - at which point you can just remove the KDE that's in your home directory, and compile it with the proper settings for all users. PS Sorry for the completely newbie type questions. Having formerly consulted in the Windows (and Dos) world for years, I'm gaining an appreciation for how my customers must have felt!!! :-) No problem at all. We all have to learn, in one way or the other. I am just glad I can help out... BTW, I've started a new thread on this (didn't realize it was tagged onto the end of another one, as I had threading off in KMail - so, I turned it back on and hopefully corrected the situation). -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com #-*- mode: Fundamental; tab-width: 4; -*- # ex:ts=4 # $Id: gar.conf.mk.in,v 1.3.2.2 2004/08/07 11:07:25 binner Exp $ # This file contains configuration variables that are global to # the GAR system. Users wishing to make a change on a # per-package basis should edit the category/package/Makefile, or # specify environment variables on the make command-line. # Variables that define the default *actions* (rather than just # default data) of the system will remain in bbc.gar.mk # (bbc.port.mk) # Set this variable if you have at least Qt 3.3 (including moc, uic and headers) # installed and want to skip the installation of the Qt 3.3 package. # Make sure that $QTDIR/bin, $QTDIR/lib and $QTDIR/include are reasonable. #HAVE_QT_3_3_INSTALLED = true # Setting this variable will cause the results of your builds to # be cleaned out after being installed. Uncomment only if you # desire this behavior! #BUILD_CLEAN = true # The GARCHIVEDIR is a directory containing cached files. It can be created # manually, or with 'make garchive' once you've started downloading required # files (say with 'make paranoid-checksum'. Example: GARCHIVEDIR = $(HOME)/kde3.3-sources # These are the standard directory name variables from all GNU # makefiles. They're also used by autoconf, and can be adapted # for a variety of build systems. # # TODO: set $(SYSCONFDIR) and $(LOCALSTATEDIR) to never use # /usr/etc or /usr/var prefix ?= /usr exec_prefix = $(prefix) bindir = $(exec_prefix)/bin sbindir = $(exec_prefix)/sbin libexecdir = $(exec_prefix)/libexec datadir = $(prefix)/share sysconfdir = /etc sharedstatedir = $(prefix)/share localstatedir = /var libdir = $(exec_prefix)/lib infodir = $(BUILD_PREFIX)/info lispdir = $(prefix)/share/emacs/site-lisp includedir = $(BUILD_PREFIX)/include mandir = $(BUILD_PREFIX)/man docdir = $(BUILD_PREFIX)/share/doc sourcedir = $(BUILD_PREFIX)/src # the DESTDIR is used at INSTALL TIME ONLY to determine what the # filesystem root should be. The BUILD_PREFIX is the prefix that # usurps the DESTDIR. It should be considered relative to # $(DESTDIR). Thus, if includedir were set to # $(BUILD_PREFIX)/include, it would expand out at install time # (BUT NO SOONER) to /tmp/gar/../../tmp/build. The /../../ at # the front should be harmless, as .. for / is just / itself. DESTDIR ?= BUILD_PREFIX ?= $(prefix) #BUILD_PREFIX ?= $(ROOTFROMDEST)/tmp/build ifdef HAVE_QT_3_3_INSTALLED # allow us to link to
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 14:25 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 02:11 pm, Jack wrote: Hi Randall... thanks for the reply. Being a silver member of Mandrake Club, I already have CD4 with the KDE 3.3 on it. Is there a way of doing this using the install drake instead? Or failing that, is there a way of adapting your technique to eliminate the necessity of downloading the KDE 3.3 and getting if from my cd instead? And finally, I would most definitely want to see a copy of your gar.conf.mk to make sure I was doing everything right. Unofortunately, the RPM's wouldn't afford you the ability to build it in another location. They're set up to install system wide, and will overwrite the existing RPM's with the new version (or should I say UPGRADE). You could probably do it with the source RPM's, but you're looking at modifying them much past the point of it being useful, so I would definitely recommend just letting it download the tar.bz2 files and compiling it from scratch. Okay, I'll do it your original way then... I've also attached the configuration file to this post (hopefully it won't be stripped out). If it is, I'll attach it and send it directly. Note that this configuration file is set up for Athlon XP and system wide install. The default settings should be OK for installing into your home directory, and you might want to uncomment out the optimization that fits your processor type. If I understand this correctly, I then should *not* use your configuration file and just accept the defaults that come with perhaps changing a few settings to optimize my Intel 2.6 CPU, right? (On a minor note, would allowing the default of setting up KDE 3.3 in my home directory okay? Would that leave the 3.2 alone? Would I then have the 2 KDE's showing up as desktop options upon logging in?) Sure. Setting it up in your home directory will allow you to go with either version whenever you choose. If you install 3.3.1 and decide you like it, you might then decide to install it system wide - at which point you can just remove the KDE that's in your home directory, and compile it with the proper settings for all users. PS Sorry for the completely newbie type questions. Having formerly consulted in the Windows (and Dos) world for years, I'm gaining an appreciation for how my customers must have felt!!! :-) No problem at all. We all have to learn, in one way or the other. I am just glad I can help out... Randall, thanks again. You the man!!! :-) - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 05:38 pm, Jack wrote: If I understand this correctly, I then should *not* use your configuration file and just accept the defaults that come with perhaps changing a few settings to optimize my Intel 2.6 CPU, right? That's correct. Use the original gar.conf.mk file, and just uncomment the CFLAGS option that fits your machine... It'll build in ~/kde3.3, and you'll be set. Randall, thanks again. You the man!!! :-) No problem at all. Give me a shout afterwards and let me know how it turns out... -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 14:25 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: Let us know how it turns out for you if you give it a try... It seemed to download everything and was working for awhile but then I got a msg: ERROR: Installation or Configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables I have C installed and have compiled things with it before, so I don't see why I'm getting this msg. Any ideas? (Was I supposed to install Konstruct? I just downloaded, unzipped it, and went to the appropriate directory /meta/everything (after init 3) and issued the make install command. There were no install instructions for Konstruct that I could find. The readme seemed to intimate that there was no need for an individual isolated install for Konstruct alone.) - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 06:29 pm, Jack wrote: It seemed to download everything and was working for awhile but then I got a msg: ERROR: Installation or Configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables I have C installed and have compiled things with it before, so I don't see why I'm getting this msg. Any ideas? (Was I supposed to install Konstruct? I just downloaded, unzipped it, and went to the appropriate directory /meta/everything (after init 3) and issued the make install command. There were no install instructions for Konstruct that I could find. The readme seemed to intimate that there was no need for an individual isolated install for Konstruct alone.) Just curious - which version of GCC do you have? Post back the results of these two commands: # rpm -qa | grep gcc # gcc -v Also, are you doing the make install as root, or as an unprivileged user? -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 18:47 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 06:29 pm, Jack wrote: It seemed to download everything and was working for awhile but then I got a msg: ERROR: Installation or Configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables I have C installed and have compiled things with it before, so I don't see why I'm getting this msg. Any ideas? Just curious - which version of GCC do you have? Post back the results of these two commands: # rpm -qa | grep gcc gcc4.0-c++-4.0.0-0.1mdk libgcc1-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-4.0.0-0.1mdk gcc-cpp-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-cpp-4.0.0-0.1mdk # gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc/i586-mandrake-linux-gnu/4.0.0/specs Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib -- libexecdir=/usr/lib --with-slibdir=/lib --mandir=/usr/share/man -- infodir=/usr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --enable- checking=release --enable-long-long --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable- clocale=gnu --disable-libunwind-exceptions --enable-languages=c,c++ -- program-suffix=-4.0.0 --host=i586-mandrake-linux-gnu --with-system-zlib --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/include/c++/3.4.1 Thread model: posix gcc version 4.0.0 (Mandrakelinux 10.1 4.0.0-0.1mdk) Also, are you doing the make install as root, or as an unprivileged user? First I tried it as unprivileged user (as the readme said I could do). When that didn't work, I tried it as root. Same result both times... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 07:53 pm, Jack wrote: gcc4.0-c++-4.0.0-0.1mdk libgcc1-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-4.0.0-0.1mdk gcc-cpp-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-cpp-4.0.0-0.1mdk Hmmm... I wonder if it's due to the GCC version? I've got: # rpm -qa | grep gcc libgcc1-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-cpp-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-c++-3.3.2-6mdk # gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-mandrake-linux-gnu/3.3.2/specs Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib --with-slibdir=/lib --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --disable-checking --enable-long-long --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-languages=c,c++,ada,f77,objc,java,pascal --host=i586-mandrake-linux-gnu --with-system-zlib Thread model: posix gcc version 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk) I'll see if I can find some info on that... First I tried it as unprivileged user (as the readme said I could do). When that didn't work, I tried it as root. Same result both times... Yeah, theoretically both should work. Sometimes I've seen strange results when not installing as root (just due to permission problems), but this pretty much rules that out. -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 19:59 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 07:53 pm, Jack wrote: gcc4.0-c++-4.0.0-0.1mdk libgcc1-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-4.0.0-0.1mdk gcc-cpp-3.4.1-3mdk gcc4.0-cpp-4.0.0-0.1mdk Hmmm... I wonder if it's due to the GCC version? I've got: # rpm -qa | grep gcc libgcc1-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-cpp-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-3.3.2-6mdk gcc-c++-3.3.2-6mdk # gcc -v Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-mandrake-linux-gnu/3.3.2/specs Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib --with-slibdir=/lib --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --enable-shared --enable-threads=posix --disable-checking --enable-long-long --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-languages=c,c++,ada,f77,objc,java,pascal --host=i586-mandrake-linux-gnu --with-system-zlib Thread model: posix gcc version 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk) I'll see if I can find some info on that... First I tried it as unprivileged user (as the readme said I could do). When that didn't work, I tried it as root. Same result both times... Yeah, theoretically both should work. Sometimes I've seen strange results when not installing as root (just due to permission problems), but this pretty much rules that out. I seem to have more recent versions and I also have Mandrake 10.1 community. I suppose that could be making a difference also. I could remove the later versions of the C compiler and install your versions. Would you suggest that? - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 08:19 pm, Jack wrote: I seem to have more recent versions and I also have Mandrake 10.1 community. I suppose that could be making a difference also. I could remove the later versions of the C compiler and install your versions. Would you suggest that? Hmmm... Not sure if you should remove those RPM's, as there are quite a few dependancies for them. I will do a little checking, and see what else I can find out, and will post back in a few (possibly with a better answer)... -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 20:26 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 08:19 pm, Jack wrote: I seem to have more recent versions and I also have Mandrake 10.1 community. I suppose that could be making a difference also. I could remove the later versions of the C compiler and install your versions. Would you suggest that? Hmmm... Not sure if you should remove those RPM's, as there are quite a few dependancies for them. I will do a little checking, and see what else I can find out, and will post back in a few (possibly with a better answer)... Okay, Randall, till then... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 09:01 pm, Jack wrote: Okay, Randall, till then... Jack - do you have a config.log in your konstruct area anywhere? (namely in the section that failed). If you do, how about post the contents of that file, as it might give us a little more info. -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 21:10 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 09:01 pm, Jack wrote: Okay, Randall, till then... Jack - do you have a config.log in your konstruct area anywhere? (namely in the section that failed). If you do, how about post the contents of that file, as it might give us a little more info. Unfortunately, I do not... - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Saturday 16 October 2004 09:32 pm, Jack wrote: Unfortunately, I do not... OK... You've got binutils installed too, right? (I'm just sorta' reading through posts on Google, and this RPM package has been brought up several times). -- Take care, Randall Hobbs Programmer - System Administrator - Chip Castle Dot Com, Inc. Web Hosting * Programming * Software http://www.chipcastle.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] KDE 3.3 (without removing 3.2)
On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 21:36 -0500, Randall D. Hobbs wrote: On Saturday 16 October 2004 09:32 pm, Jack wrote: Unfortunately, I do not... OK... You've got binutils installed too, right? (I'm just sorta' reading through posts on Google, and this RPM package has been brought up several times). Yes I do. On another matter... Is it possible that Konstruct interfered with my winXP setup on c: drive? I just spent the last 2 hours recovering my windows system. I might have mentioned that I'm dual-booting. Does konstruct do anything to the c: drive (hda)? My linux is on hdc and nothing from here should touch hda. - Jack Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
