Re: [newbie] Strange boot options
On Friday 04 Jun 2004 11:06 pm, Brian Meadows wrote: On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 23:58:06 +0100, Derek wrote: On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 22:37, brian wrote: snip So most of those I understand, but anyone know what the numeric entries represent? Second question - 9.1 ran just fine on this PC (600 MHz PIII, 512 MB of memory) but once I'd installed 10.0 I noticed a lot of disk thrashing going on. I ran up KDE system guard (Im using the version of KDE which came with 10.0, and that's the only desktop I've installed) to find that I'd only got a couple of megs of memory free, which explains the thrashing, Linux uses all unused memory as a disc cache. It is perfectly normal for memory usage to be 100% After all unused memory is 'wasted' memory. Hmm. And a hard disk which is being *constantly* accessed is a hard disk that is likely to have a short lifespan - assuming you're not running server-class drives, which I'm not on my Linux box. I wouldn't have noticed the memory usage had it not been for the disk thrashing. ... Thanks for the info, but I'm still not convinced. If this constant disk access really is normal for a Linux system, I'm going to buy shares in some hard drive manufacturers! You're right in that it shouldn't be constantly thrashing the disk, but Derek is correct that most of memory is always used for disk caching, so it isn't obvious. Try: $ top and give it the commands: fuOu Check the nFLT column (page fault count.) With an uptime of 1 3/4 days I have X at 19k, and several desktop (xfce) processes at 1-3k. Anything increasing constantly might be a problem. I'm using 9.2 with 320M of memory. -- Richard Urwin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Strange boot options
On Friday 04 Jun 2004 11:06 pm, Brian Meadows wrote: ... Thanks for the info, but I'm still not convinced. If this constant disk access really is normal for a Linux system, I'm going to buy shares in some hard drive manufacturers! The Ext3 file system will cause disc activity every 5 seconds as it updates the journal. So there will always be activity, but you described 'thrashing' which is not to be expected unless you are short of memory. If this is the case using a lighter window manager than KDE could be beneficial. It is to be expected to have a lot of disc activity shortly after the system starts as it performs it daily maintenance jobs. These jobs include compressing and archiving log files, indexing manual pages, and running security checks. These jobs normally run at 4a.m. but if your computer is powered off overnight they run after power on (So long as the anacron package is installed) derek -- www.jennings.homelinux.net http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Strange boot options
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 23:58:06 +0100, Derek wrote: On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 22:37, brian wrote: snip So most of those I understand, but anyone know what the numeric entries represent? Second question - 9.1 ran just fine on this PC (600 MHz PIII, 512 MB of memory) but once I'd installed 10.0 I noticed a lot of disk thrashing going on. I ran up KDE system guard (Im using the version of KDE which came with 10.0, and that's the only desktop I've installed) to find that I'd only got a couple of megs of memory free, which explains the thrashing, Linux uses all unused memory as a disc cache. It is perfectly normal for memory usage to be 100% After all unused memory is 'wasted' memory. Hmm. And a hard disk which is being *constantly* accessed is a hard disk that is likely to have a short lifespan - assuming you're not running server-class drives, which I'm not on my Linux box. I wouldn't have noticed the memory usage had it not been for the disk thrashing. As far as servers that I've installed are concerned, I have MySQL, ProFTP and Apache (that I'm aware of). I've also got Kylix on the PC, but that doesn't have anything sitting in the background until you actually run it. Anyway, what puzzles me is that I've got six copies of httpd2, one with a login of root and five with a login of apache, Perfectly normal. That is how more than 1 person at a time can hit your web site. OK, that's cleared that one up. six copies of mingetty, Hit Ctl+Atl+F1 through to F6 and you will see text consoles. These are the instances of mingetty. You could run fewer, but it would save virtually no resources. Any idle process eventually gets swapped out to swap and consumes insignificant resource. OK. five of saslauthd, Perfectly normal assuming you are actually using SASL (Possibly for email authentication) Not to my knowledge - unless it's by default. and a couple of other programs which show two or three instances. Can anyone tell me whether the footprint of 10.0 with KDE really is this large, or has something gone wrong with the update process? No its all normal. Do not worry about it. I'm worried about any system that shows constant disk access while idle. If there are services you have installed but do not use, then by all means turn them off or uninstall them. The only service I would recommend disabling is tmdns (Tiny DNS server) which is more trouble than it is worth and screws up lots of peoples net connection. The net connection, at least, is working just fine. As above, don't underestimate my ignorance of Linux. I used to write Fortran programs under some variant of Unix 25 years ago, and that's about the extent of my knowledge of Unix/Linux systems. Since then all my PC work has been with Billy G's offerings. At the moment, I know about enough of Mandrake to navigate round the file system and to fire up Kylix. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous ;-) Not really - the dangerous ones are those who know nothing but think they know something. I know the dangers of learning a new operating system from scratch, I've been through it too many times. :-( Some have been Unix-like, e.g. Hewlett-Packard's RTE-6 and RTE-A, but it's all buried by time under a mountain of Windows and VAX/VMS. Someone on this list used to have a good signature :- If your Linux system is not broken, you are not trying hard enough! Have fun No guarantees. ;-) I've really not that much interest in hacking around in the depths of the system, all I'm after is to learn enough to develop the same sort of software under Linux as I currently do under Windows. Had it not been for Borland's Kylix, I'd not even bother looking at Linux. In any case, I just don't like an OS that tries to beat hard drives into an early grave. Thanks for the info, but I'm still not convinced. If this constant disk access really is normal for a Linux system, I'm going to buy shares in some hard drive manufacturers! Brian. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
[newbie] Strange boot options
I upgraded my Mandrake 9.1 system to 10.0 via a net install, and I'm puzzled by some of the after effects. I'm only just starting to play around with Linux, so don't underestimate my ignorance First question. I use GRUB as a boot manager, and this box only runs Linux. After the update, I find the following in the GRBU boot menu linux linux_nonfb floppy old_linux old_linux_nonfb 263-7 2421-013 failsafe So most of those I understand, but anyone know what the numeric entries represent? Second question - 9.1 ran just fine on this PC (600 MHz PIII, 512 MB of memory) but once I'd installed 10.0 I noticed a lot of disk thrashing going on. I ran up KDE system guard (Im using the version of KDE which came with 10.0, and that's the only desktop I've installed) to find that I'd only got a couple of megs of memory free, which explains the thrashing, but what puzzles me is some of the entries in the task list. I seem to have multiple copies of a whole bunch of things running. As far as servers that I've installed are concerned, I have MySQL, ProFTP and Apache (that I'm aware of). I've also got Kylix on the PC, but that doesn't have anything sitting in the background until you actually run it. Anyway, what puzzles me is that I've got six copies of httpd2, one with a login of root and five with a login of apache, six copies of mingetty, five of saslauthd, and a couple of other programs which show two or three instances. Can anyone tell me whether the footprint of 10.0 with KDE really is this large, or has something gone wrong with the update process? As above, don't underestimate my ignorance of Linux. I used to write Fortran programs under some variant of Unix 25 years ago, and that's about the extent of my knowledge of Unix/Linux systems. Since then all my PC work has been with Billy G's offerings. At the moment, I know about enough of Mandrake to navigate round the file system and to fire up Kylix. Thanks, Brian. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Strange boot options
From: brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] First question. I use GRUB as a boot manager, and this box only runs Linux. After the update, I find the following in the GRBU boot menu linux linux_nonfb floppy old_linux old_linux_nonfb 263-7 2421-013 failsafe So most of those I understand, but anyone know what the numeric entries represent? I am a new user, but I would guess that 263-7 would boot vmlinuz-2.6.3-7mdk (version 2.6.3) linux is probably just a symlink in /boot: vmlinuz - vmlinuz-2.6.3-7mdk 2421-013 is probably your old linux vmlinuz-2.4.21-013mdk I don't know where the GRUB config files are /boot/grub or /etc/grub but looking at it should clear up the relationships even if you don't understand all the grub configuration. which explains the thrashing, but what puzzles me is some of the entries in the task list. I seem to have multiple copies of a whole bunch of things running. You might try using the Mandrake Control Center to stop duplicate services. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Strange boot options
On Thursday 03 June 2004 00:11, brian wrote: On Wednesday 02 June 2004 17:49, you wrote: As for the rest of your question, others may step in. To me it seems that you are not so new ;-) Thanks Kaj - I'm new to Linux, not to programming. It didn't occur to me that I'd still have the option to boot old versions of the kernel after an upgrade. Well Brian, an upgrade will preserve your settings, not destroy anything. The downside is, that - as you experienced - things tend to behave oddly. Most people don't upgrade, they install. But as opposed to some other operating systems, a linux install is everything from a complete wipe of your system to just upgrading your applications to the latest and greatest - kernel included. If you just want to upgrade from - say - 9.2 to 10.0 I would recommend : When asked upgrade or install, choose install. Then, when asked about formatting partitions, leave your /home as is, but format all other partitions (exept possibly backup partitions). That way you'll get a fresh system, but with your settings and other private stuff preserved. A few - minor - tweaks may be needed due to newer applications, but nothing serious. While I'm OK when using Kylix and SQL, I'm still thinking how I'd do something in Windows and then trying to find a parallel when it comes to the user interface. I posted on the newbie list because I looked at the Discuss list and couldn't understand most of what I read, questions or answers! Brian. On this list you'll meet the most friendly (and witty) people in the universe. Kaj Haulrich. -- * Sent from a 100 % Microsoft-free computer * * http://www.haulrich.net * * running Linux kernel 2.6.4 on Mandrake 10.0 * Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Strange boot options
brian wrote: I upgraded my Mandrake 9.1 system to 10.0 via a net install, and I'm puzzled by some of the after effects. I'm only just starting to play around with Linux, so don't underestimate my ignorance First question. I use GRUB as a boot manager, and this box only runs Linux. After the update, I find the following in the GRBU boot menu linux linux_nonfb floppy old_linux old_linux_nonfb 263-7 2421-013 failsafe So most of those I understand, but anyone know what the numeric entries represent? The numeric entries are different kernels. In Mandrake 10, you have a choice of using either a series 2.4 or a series 2.6 kernel - some applications and services run best on 2.4 and some on 2.6 kernels. You seem to have at least one of each series installed. Boot to linux, then open a terminal and command uname -r to check which kernel you are actually running. If everything you actually need to run works OK on that kernel, you can safely uninstall the other one(s). I use Lilo, so someone else will have to help you with Grub configuration once you've sorted out which kernel(s) you actually need. PS please remove the reply-to setting from your mail, so the replies go to the list and not just to you. Margot Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Strange boot options
On Wednesday 02 Jun 2004 22:37, brian wrote: snip So most of those I understand, but anyone know what the numeric entries represent? Second question - 9.1 ran just fine on this PC (600 MHz PIII, 512 MB of memory) but once I'd installed 10.0 I noticed a lot of disk thrashing going on. I ran up KDE system guard (Im using the version of KDE which came with 10.0, and that's the only desktop I've installed) to find that I'd only got a couple of megs of memory free, which explains the thrashing, Linux uses all unused memory as a disc cache. It is perfectly normal for memory usage to be 100% After all unused memory is 'wasted' memory. but what puzzles me is some of the entries in the task list. I seem to have multiple copies of a whole bunch of things running. As far as servers that I've installed are concerned, I have MySQL, ProFTP and Apache (that I'm aware of). I've also got Kylix on the PC, but that doesn't have anything sitting in the background until you actually run it. Anyway, what puzzles me is that I've got six copies of httpd2, one with a login of root and five with a login of apache, Perfectly normal. That is how more than 1 person at a time can hit your web site. six copies of mingetty, Hit Ctl+Atl+F1 through to F6 and you will see text consoles. These are the instances of mingetty. You could run fewer, but it would save virtually no resources. Any idle process eventually gets swapped out to swap and consumes insignificant resource. five of saslauthd, Perfectly normal assuming you are actually using SASL (Possibly for email authentication) and a couple of other programs which show two or three instances. Can anyone tell me whether the footprint of 10.0 with KDE really is this large, or has something gone wrong with the update process? No its all normal. Do not worry about it. If there are services you have installed but do not use, then by all means turn them off or uninstall them. The only service I would recommend disabling is tmdns (Tiny DNS server) which is more trouble than it is worth and screws up lots of peoples net connection. As above, don't underestimate my ignorance of Linux. I used to write Fortran programs under some variant of Unix 25 years ago, and that's about the extent of my knowledge of Unix/Linux systems. Since then all my PC work has been with Billy G's offerings. At the moment, I know about enough of Mandrake to navigate round the file system and to fire up Kylix. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous ;-) Someone on this list used to have a good signature :- If your Linux system is not broken, you are not trying hard enough! Have fun derek BTW Brian. Please remove the Reply To in your email settings. See the etiquette page on the Twiki for why. Thanks, Brian. -- www.jennings.homelinux.net http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
