RE: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
ASUS A7N266-VM84 512M DDR 165 Two hard disks160 CDRW/DVD109 Case (InWin 500D)54 Keyboard/mouse /speakers 12 Floppy drive 12 1G Duron 58 Fan/heatsink 30 Networking card12 Civileme, I have to say I was a little suprised to see an Nvidia mobo recommendation for Linux but I take it that it works well with Mandrake. Two questions about this setup: - does the sound work okay? (obviously not expecting the super cool AC3 encode/decode stuff but ...uses some Intel 810 driver, right?) - did the networking work? (or was the NIC you've included in the list necessary?) - does the install setup program for Mandrake deal with the builtin video/RAM allocation thang? ::mark Well, out of the box on a ProSuite workstation install, everything but networking... After downloading the NForce RPM for mandrake 8.2 from NVidia, the networking worked as well--it just could not be set up during install. That was NOT a recommendation, just an example. I had reasons for the NForce install related to testing, and in fact I cannot recommend it at all for those who will use RAID with any of the journaling filesystems. Thanks for info/clarification. I'm curious, though. If it works well what keeps you from recommending it? It seems at this point that there really isn't a single chipset/motherboard that is without _some_ issue. Mandrakelinux.com lists zero motherboards as Tested by MandrakeSoft and only 9 motherboards as MandrakeLabs Certified and two of these use the KT266 chipset that you were warning users about because of clock problems. One of them even has a Promise WinRAID controller. ::mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
Mark Stewart wrote: ASUS A7N266-VM84 512M DDR 165 Two hard disks160 CDRW/DVD109 Case (InWin 500D)54 Keyboard/mouse /speakers 12 Floppy drive 12 1G Duron 58 Fan/heatsink 30 Networking card12 Civileme, I have to say I was a little suprised to see an Nvidia mobo recommendation for Linux but I take it that it works well with Mandrake. Two questions about this setup: - does the sound work okay? (obviously not expecting the super cool AC3 encode/decode stuff but ...uses some Intel 810 driver, right?) - did the networking work? (or was the NIC you've included in the list necessary?) - does the install setup program for Mandrake deal with the builtin video/RAM allocation thang? ::mark Well, out of the box on a ProSuite workstation install, everything but networking... After downloading the NForce RPM for mandrake 8.2 from NVidia, the networking worked as well--it just could not be set up during install. That was NOT a recommendation, just an example. I had reasons for the NForce install related to testing, and in fact I cannot recommend it at all for those who will use RAID with any of the journaling filesystems. Thanks for info/clarification. I'm curious, though. If it works well what keeps you from recommending it? It seems at this point that there really isn't a single chipset/motherboard that is without _some_ issue. Mandrakelinux.com lists zero motherboards as Tested by MandrakeSoft and only 9 motherboards as MandrakeLabs Certified and two of these use the KT266 chipset that you were warning users about because of clock problems. One of them even has a Promise WinRAID controller. ::mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Well, I am having problems with the proprietary driver+Nforce+journaling filesystem+software RAID0 producing massive corruption of filesystems. The little NForce would be neat with an inexpensive processor and RAID0 (two drives striping) in terms of fleetness of foot and video performance but for that. Removing the proprietary driver shows no corruption after a lot of sledgehammering. Yes, the WinRAIDs are often overlooked. With RAID disabled, they are high-quality extra controllers for IDE. It is also possible to make a WinRAID smaller than the whole disk and install linux on the rest of the two disks, using software RAID. In that case you should(tm) be able to read the winpartitions (if they aren't some hyper-secret form of NTFS). If WinRAID 0+1 is selected on 4 disks and the WinRAID doesn't use the whole disk, you should be able to put RAID4 or RAID5 on the balance of the four disks as well as RAID0 or RAID1. Of course the WinRAID gives you one RAID for whatever size you choose, and you partition within it, while linux software RAID gives you many RAIDs, each one partition with one filesystem. I have one machine using RAID5 for /home over 2 IDE and 2 SCSI disks, and RAID0 for /usr over the two SCSI drives, RAID0 for /var over the IDEs, and ext2 for / over the first IDE, while all 4 have swap (which stripes automatically). MandrakeLabs certified means they install and run with standard defaults. Software RAID and journaling filesystems in combination are not tested in that sequence, which is why the broken clock problem did not surface, but if ever you decide to use a BTTV 848 or similar, you will discover it quickly for yourself. And, yes, you are right. Intel 815 and 845 and the SiS chipsets seem to be the most trouble-free ATM. Performance doesn't have the pizazz power users think they need, but they do work (and the SiS stuff still tolerates my Voodoo 5). Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
Sorry that I'm so behind on this list but I'm _still_ shopping for a new box so... Well, if you wait a week on Wal-Mart, you can probably buy the computer with MandrakeLinux or Lindows preinstalled. I cannot in good conscience recommend Lindows to _anyone_. It is likely to become a huge target for exploits, but the Mandrake preinstalation should be a fair deal. Hmmm Lessee ASUS A7N266-VM84 512M DDR 165 Two hard disks160 CDRW/DVD109 Case (InWin 500D)54 Keyboard/mouse /speakers 12 Floppy drive 12 1G Duron 58 Fan/heatsink 30 Networking card12 Civileme, I have to say I was a little suprised to see an Nvidia mobo recommendation for Linux but I take it that it works well with Mandrake. Two questions about this setup: - does the sound work okay? (obviously not expecting the super cool AC3 encode/decode stuff but ...uses some Intel 810 driver, right?) - did the networking work? (or was the NIC you've included in the list necessary?) - does the install setup program for Mandrake deal with the builtin video/RAM allocation thang? ::mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
On Thursday 20 June 2002 07:21 pm, Marcia wrote: AIB 17 Color Monitor .27dpi ***FREE SHIPPING*** 17MOSEL [pad] Regular price: $159.00 [pad] Sale price: [$123.00] [pad] Thank you, Marcia Looks like a great deal, specially with free shipping. I bought a el cheapo MagView from Best Buy 2 years ago. It has similar specs as your AIB, works just fine at 1024x768. I use to buy expensive monitors, now I look for the cheapest thing goin and toss it when it wears out. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
On Thursday 20 June 2002 08:36 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/20/209223mode=nested; tid=137 When I last looked, there were close to 600 posts (no, I didn't read them all.) The one vendor who is getting very high scores is newegg.com; another is www.mwave.com. I'm not familiar with either one, but I'm going to check them out. I'll vouch for www.mwave.com (Multiwave). I've done a lot of business with them for several years, never a problem, quick service, very competive prices, and latest hardware. They don't gouge on shipping either. Last several motherboard bundles I got from them were manufactured less than 2 weeks before Mwave shipped 'em. My current Tbird was one week old, latest stepping. For dated, but cheap hardware, check out http://www.compgeeks.com/ I bought the Mlink external modem from them, $24.50, a link that Civileme posted to this list a while back. Works absolutely great! Unfortunately, it sold out quicky, MOF, just a few days after I ordered mine. Getting back to this thread's topic, I don't take chances, I get ram from http://www.crucial.com/ -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
Marcia: I really do like the way you go about your shopping. I'm thinking about an upgrade myself, so I've been piggybacking. It just so happens that there's a thread on Slashdot tonight about good sources for components and systems: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/20/209223mode=nestedtid=137 When I last looked, there were close to 600 posts (no, I didn't read them all.) The one vendor who is getting very high scores is newegg.com; another is www.mwave.com. I'm not familiar with either one, but I'm going to check them out. -- cmg I've actually bought quite a bit of stuff from newegg myself. Great prices and I've never had reason to complain. The last box I built was almost all newegg stuff. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
tom Brinkman wrote: While building from scratch might offer the best results, it's never the cheapest route. In general that may be true, but I upgrade my systems piecemeal -- that is, I sometimes upgrade an existing system reusing the hard drive, CD-Rom, case, and anything else that is not obsolete. And, even if I eventually want a bigger hard drive, I can put that off until later, or put two of my smaller hard drives on one system and buy one bigger new one for another system. (Unfortunately, in the next go round, I'll need to upgrade the case and the memory in most cases.) Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
Marcia wrote: On Wednesday 19 June 2002 02:12 pm, you wrote: Note also that Walmart is now selling Microtel computers, either with no operating system or with Lindows preinstalled. With Lindows preinstalled, the first three price points are $299, $499, ahd $599, IIRC. The $299 machine doesn't look bad for the price. Dear All, Thank you all for your help. I have been checking out Walmart and they have some good deals it appears. Also, I finally found a source that may have what I am looking for. They use either Microstar, ECS, and DFI motherboards. Does anyone have an experience with LM 8.2 and any of these motherboards? They all have integrated sound, lan, and video for the one I put together. I came up with a price without monitor of 537.17. This does not include shipping. I thought the specs were good with 512 sdram memory, 60 gig hard drive, altec lansing speakers, Athlon XP Palomino 1600+, upgraded cooling for cpu, and case has 2 USB ports in front which I prefer personally, etc. Has anyone have any thoughts about this? The web page is www.mgepc.com/. I already looked at the motherboard comments from the Linux Hardware Database and some had problems with the sound but it seemed that there were many others who had everything working especially if I remember correctly if they were using LM 8.2. I may be confused with Microstar with this but both Motherboards seemed to have good ratings with Linux people. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Actually, the ECS K7S5A which is advertised on that page works as well with just a sound tweak, and was once rated highly by Tom's hardware and Anand's sites. ECS is a PCChips brand, but that is one where the blind hog did seem to find the acorn. Microstar sometimes works, but watch out for the Chipset. Right now anything based on the ALi Magic or KT266A is likely to be no bargain (for-real broken clocks). Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
On Monday 17 June 2002 07:03 pm, Marcia wrote: Dear All, Thank you for your comments about upgrading. I am still window shopping and comparing barebone kits running Athlon XP's. Sometimes I see OEM and I really do not know what that means. I am comparing a Jetway 830CF Barebones w/AMD XP 1600+ CPU and PC Chips 817LR Athlon Socket-A Ali Chipset, DDR/SDRAM support. I'd strongly suggest further that you use a board that's on AMD's recommended list for best results. http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348^4351,00.html There's two Jetway boards on the 1600+ list, but the 830CF isn't one of 'em. Also, with Athlon, Duron, or even P4 cpu/motherboards it's very important to also use a quality recommended power supply http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_4348^4351,00.html Both of the above requirements will probly not be met by any 'barebones' kit. I surely wouldn't try to skimp on the motherboard/ PSU, it's the very foundation of a system. My son-in-law said to stay away from Duron. It sounds like many of you use Duron though without a problem. There's nothin at all wrong with Duron's, but you get a lot more proccessor for just a few $$'s more usin an Athlon. A 1.4 Ghz Athlon is only about $80, while 1.x Ghz Duron's are about $60. with Linux. Anyone know anything about the PC Chips 817LR Athlon Socket-A ALi Chipset? PC Chips is very low end hardware, just about the lowest. You won't find any of their products on the recommended lists. Be careful, PC Chips markets their boards under about 20 different brand names.http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/pcchips/ -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
Athlon Socket-A Ali Chipset, DDR/SDRAM support. My son-in-law said to stay away from Duron. It sounds like many of you use Duron though without a problem. The Jetway 830CF is being offered for 229.00 I believe while the I have an Athlon as well, but many people say Duron runs fine. The big difference between the two is that the Duron lacks the secondary cache, and therefore is going to run slower. Even so, it's a good step up from a Pentium II. Tou'll probably be better off with the Athlon in the long run - but typically, memory is more important than processor speed, so for example a duron with 512 megs is a better investment than an athlon with 256. Also, you may not need such a fast athlon - you might be able to obtain a slower speed one at reduced cost. Usually when manufacturers make a set of cpus at different speeds, the really higher speed versions are way off scale in price -- they are far more expensive than the increase in speed would warrant. (You might pay 50% more for 5% increase in speed.) After a while those prices settle, and sometimes the best choice is a cpu with a speed of just a little bit less than the highest speed available - say for instance a 1400 in your situation. FWIW I got a 1000 mhz athlon, but that was back in March of 2001. I'm sure prices have gotten much lower :(. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
On Tuesday 18 June 2002 10:17 am, you wrote: Athlon Socket-A Ali Chipset, DDR/SDRAM support. My son-in-law said to stay away from Duron. It sounds like many of you use Duron though without a problem. The Jetway 830CF is being offered for 229.00 I believe while the I have an Athlon as well, but many people say Duron runs fine. The big difference between the two is that the Duron lacks the secondary cache, and therefore is going to run slower. Even so, it's a good step up from a Pentium II. Tou'll probably be better off with the Athlon in the long run - but typically, memory is more important than processor speed, so for example a duron with 512 megs is a better investment than an athlon with 256. Also, you may not need such a fast athlon - you might be able to obtain a slower speed one at reduced cost. Usually when manufacturers make a set of cpus at different speeds, the really higher speed versions are way off scale in price -- they are far more expensive than the increase in speed would warrant. (You might pay 50% more for 5% increase in speed.) After a while those prices settle, and sometimes the best choice is a cpu with a speed of just a little bit less than the highest speed available - say for instance a 1400 in your situation. FWIW I got a 1000 mhz athlon, but that was back in March of 2001. I'm sure prices have gotten much lower :(. Dear All, Thank you all for your help with my upgrading. I am tossing back and forth between the Jetway 830CF barebones with Athlon XP 1500 and another barebones, Biostart M7VkQ Socket-A XP BRD with Audio/Video and Athlon XP 1600. The Biostar one has a Trident Blade 3D Video Integrated. Does this video card work well with LM 8.2? According to Civileme the Jetway system works well with LM8.2. Thanks for any help here. Sincerely, Marcia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
Marcia wrote: Dear All, Thank you for your comments about upgrading. I am still window shopping and comparing barebone kits running Athlon XP's. Sometimes I see OEM and I really do not know what that means. I am comparing a Jetway 830CF Barebones w/AMD XP 1600+ CPU and PC Chips 817LR Athlon Socket-A Ali Chipset, DDR/SDRAM support. My son-in-law said to stay away from Duron. It sounds like many of you use Duron though without a problem. The Jetway 830CF is being offered for 229.00 I believe while the other one is being offered for 151.00 which includes shipping. I really do not have the know-how to make a good comparison. I was told that they both work with Linux. Anyone know anything about the PC Chips 817LR Athlon Socket-A ALi Chipset? Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Marcia Yes the ALi chipset has a broken clock which can sometimes corrupt the filesystems and make it difficult to run BT848 video capture and TV cards. Besides that, PCChips does not have one of the better reputations in the industry though I don't avoid them as strongly as I did a few years ago. BEWARE also of VIA KT266 chipsets which ALSO have broken clocks. Now 229 for the Board and processor seems a bit steep. I see at www.surpluscomputers.com that a barebone system based on the 830CF (including case and power supply) with the AMD XP 1500 is 229.95 while a mobo with the processor is 199.95. Regardless of which you decide to purchase, take the plunge and get a copper-bottomed heatsink with a 7000rpm fan. The copper is less likely to wear away the corners of the chip or the very thin layer of special glass on top of it (actually SiO2), and the cooling is absolutely essential for processor life. Most AMD chips still do not have thermal shutdown, so it is possible that yours will self-destruct in thermal overload. Whatever fan that comes with the packages should be discarded or sold to a Duron owner, where cooling isn't such a critical task. www.directron.com has a large assortment of fans. I have been using the Dragon Orb 1, but it isn't copper-bottomed. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
civileme wrote: Marcia wrote: Dear All, Thank you for your comments about upgrading. I am still window shopping and comparing barebone kits running Athlon XP's. Sometimes I see OEM and I really do not know what that means. I am comparing a Jetway 830CF Barebones w/AMD XP 1600+ CPU and PC Chips 817LR Athlon Socket-A Ali Chipset, DDR/SDRAM support. My son-in-law said to stay away from Duron. It sounds like many of you use Duron though without a problem. The Jetway 830CF is being offered for 229.00 I believe while the other one is being offered for 151.00 which includes shipping. I really do not have the know-how to make a good comparison. I was told that they both work with Linux. Anyone know anything about the PC Chips 817LR Athlon Socket-A ALi Chipset? Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Marcia Yes the ALi chipset has a broken clock which can sometimes corrupt the filesystems and make it difficult to run BT848 video capture and TV cards. Besides that, PCChips does not have one of the better reputations in the industry though I don't avoid them as strongly as I did a few years ago. BEWARE also of VIA KT266 chipsets which ALSO have broken clocks. Now 229 for the Board and processor seems a bit steep. I see at www.surpluscomputers.com that a barebone system based on the 830CF (including case and power supply) with the AMD XP 1500 is 229.95 while a mobo with the processor is 199.95. Regardless of which you decide to purchase, take the plunge and get a copper-bottomed heatsink with a 7000rpm fan. The copper is less likely to wear away the corners of the chip or the very thin layer of special glass on top of it (actually SiO2), and the cooling is absolutely essential for processor life. Most AMD chips still do not have thermal shutdown, so it is possible that yours will self-destruct in thermal overload. Whatever fan that comes with the packages should be discarded or sold to a Duron owner, where cooling isn't such a critical task. www.directron.com has a large assortment of fans. I have been using the Dragon Orb 1, but it isn't copper-bottomed. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com OEM--Original Equipment Manufacturer For CPUs that means no fancy box, usually no fan and a very very limited warranty, all of which are enhanced considerably in the retail version for $20% more money. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
dfox wrote: I imagine Mandrake would work OK with such a system. But personally I shy away with 'branded' computers - isn't there a way you can upgrade the system you have, just get the components you need, and then install on that? HPs a respected brand but I wouldn't buy a P4 system from any- one - the processor is just too da*n crippled and too expensive. AMD is far better choice. And you probably have some good HD space left, but if not, you can save your orig drive(s) and move them into a new home. * Intel® Pentium® 4 1.60GHz Processor * 512MB Memory * 80GB Hard Drive * 16x8x40x CDRW * 16x DVD * 3.5 1.44MB Floppy Drive * nVidia TNT2 M64 32MB AGP graphics card Note that apart from the video card, nothing is said about the makers of the individual components. One thing I've noticed is that many prebuilt PCs use good hardware for the things they think people will notice (CPU, video card etc.) then skimp on the more obscure parts - frequently the motherboard (which is probably the component you need to choose most carefully!). If you don't want to mess around assembling parts, a solution is to approach a small firm who will build one to your specs. This way you can ensure you get what you want, and avoid getting Windows as well. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Upgrading memory [getting OT]
robin wrote: dfox wrote: I imagine Mandrake would work OK with such a system. But personally I shy away with 'branded' computers - isn't there a way you can upgrade the system you have, just get the components you need, and then install on that? HPs a respected brand but I wouldn't buy a P4 system from any- one - the processor is just too da*n crippled and too expensive. AMD is far better choice. And you probably have some good HD space left, but if not, you can save your orig drive(s) and move them into a new home. I understand Walmart is now selling computers, either with no operating system, or with Lindows preinstalled -- it could be worth looking at. BTW, I like cheap motherboards. I've used TX-Pro II motherboards with onboard sound and video for a number of years without problems on Windows. (I've had difficulty with Linux, but some of that is probably my problem. I am stuck at Xfree 3.3.6 on those motherboards, IIRC, and don't have sound working. (I normally don't use sound, don't have speakers plugged in -- there is a slight possibility that sound does now work (with some more recent installs) but I really haven't checked. The newer motherboard I'm using is a Matsonic MS8308-E (or EP?). On board sound, video (works with the new Xfree -- 4.2.x?), NIC, and special LMR slot for a modem. (On board stuff is based on the SiS 730 chipset.) One nice feature of the board is that the on board video is AGP, but there is also an AGP slot, so if I want to plug in a better video card I can. I originally installed Mandrake 7.2 (after being unsuccessful with Mandrake 8.0), and sound did not work. Since then I've upgraded to Mandrake 8.1 and then 8.2 but never tested the sound. I understand that the NIC does not work with Linux -- I've never tried as I use coax on my network, and the on board NIC is RJ-45 (10/100). Aside: The reason I switched motherboards is that the TX-Pro II could handle a max of two 64 MB DIMMS (plus two SIMMs, IIRC, 32 MB each). I needed more memory. Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
