RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of HaywireMac Sent: Tuesday, 19 August 2003 11:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt. On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:17:45 -0400 Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: We can only speculate what was in the mind of the worm's author(s). But if the 200,000 instances of this worm had chosen to target windowsupdate.microsoft.com or even microsoft.com with an unthrottled Raw Socket SYN flood, a very different scenario would be playing out today and tomorrow: Microsoft.com would be gone. But the worm's originator(s) appear to have been more interested in making a point, than in taking Microsoft.com permanently off the Internet _ which they could have easily done. /quote Sharrea Interesting. Ya, sounds almost like White Hats to me, tho, for white hats it did do a lot of damage to Windows machines worldwide, ie. at least in terms of inconvenience. From what I have heard, it has been relatively easy to remove and patch, and the damage doesn't seem to be permanent. H, didn't Gibsom warn MS about Raw Sockets a loong time ago when XP was just a dream (nightmare?). FRANKI: Yeah, I just bet Steve was dying to say I told you so. Which is particularly apt considering the raw sockets where actuall used against Microsoft in this case. I think the same people that wrote blaster are probably behind the one recently released that goes around fixing infections and blocking the hole. SG is a bit of a showman but he seems to know his stuff. (even if he does give every thing fancy names) rgds Franki Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Mon, 2003-08-18 at 23:51, HaywireMac wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:17:45 -0400 Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: We can only speculate what was in the mind of the worm's author(s). But if the 200,000 instances of this worm had chosen to target windowsupdate.microsoft.com or even microsoft.com with an unthrottled Raw Socket SYN flood, a very different scenario would be playing out today and tomorrow: Microsoft.com would be gone. But the worm's originator(s) appear to have been more interested in making a point, than in taking Microsoft.com permanently off the Internet _ which they could have easily done. /quote Sharrea Interesting. Ya, sounds almost like White Hats to me, tho, for white hats it did do a lot of damage to Windows machines worldwide, ie. at least in terms of inconvenience. From what I have heard, it has been relatively easy to remove and patch, and the damage doesn't seem to be permanent. H, didn't Gibsom warn MS about Raw Sockets a loong time ago when XP was just a dream (nightmare?). I know Civileme went off and informed everyone on the newbie list long before XP was out about raw sockets, and how wrong and stupid it was to design raw sockets into the OS like that. seemed to me the only real reason for M$ to make raw sockets was to be able to back door you at M$ wishes. and gee, unless I borrow a copy, I might not ever get to use XP. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On 19 Aug 2003 07:33:03 -0400 ed tharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: unless I borrow a copy, I might not ever get to use XP. bet yer real busted up about that! I do have the VLE if you want tho, ;-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 08:06, HaywireMac wrote: On 19 Aug 2003 07:33:03 -0400 ed tharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: unless I borrow a copy, I might not ever get to use XP. bet yer real busted up about that! I do have the VLE if you want tho, ;-) is it in ISO format? __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On 19 Aug 2003 08:12:00 -0400 ed tharp [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: is it in ISO format? could be, if you wanted... loong download tho, my upstream is capped at 128. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Mon, 2003-08-18 at 23:51, HaywireMac wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:17:45 -0400 Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: We can only speculate what was in the mind of the worm's author(s). But if the 200,000 instances of this worm had chosen to target windowsupdate.microsoft.com or even microsoft.com with an unthrottled Raw Socket SYN flood, a very different scenario would be playing out today and tomorrow: Microsoft.com would be gone. But the worm's originator(s) appear to have been more interested in making a point, than in taking Microsoft.com permanently off the Internet _ which they could have easily done. /quote Sharrea Interesting. Ya, sounds almost like White Hats to me, tho, for white hats it did do a lot of damage to Windows machines worldwide, ie. at least in terms of inconvenience. From what I have heard, it has been relatively easy to remove and patch, and the damage doesn't seem to be permanent. H, didn't Gibsom warn MS about Raw Sockets a loong time ago when XP was just a dream (nightmare?). Well, I know for a fact that it's been discussed for quite some time on the bugtraq security lists. So something was expected to turn up. LX -- Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk Linux Mandrake 9.1 Enlightenment-0.16.5-12mdk Evolution 1.2.4-1.1mdk Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Mon, 2003-08-18 at 07:44, Frankie wrote: Bill Gates didn't make people idiots, God did. Hate the user, not the developer. Next... Brandon Vanderberg www.clueless.m$killedmydoggy.andi'mgonnacry.whaaa.com Linux User #34.5 | Linux machine 123amicoolyet472notyet340now?987NO!needlongersig05789 Kernel 9.12.45customsupercoolAllYourThreadsAreBelongToUs Current load = WhoGivesAFlyingFock | Average Load = NoOneDoes Number of times aterm has been run since last reboot = 12,638 (cuz people wanna know that) My signature isn't long enough to make me l33t yet... This computer is %100 Microsoft tolerant. I drive a 1971 Ford Truck. I can work on any part of it, so everybody driving anything else must suck. And the people that make those other cars are trying to take over the world and must be kill- ... er... sued. - B. Vanderberg (about 5 minutes ago) FRANKI: While I agree with that to a degree.. I don't think its the whole picture.. M$ is about money.. not software, they have an extremely bad record with regards to security problems and just buggy software.. and yet they still ship now, fix later. Considering they use their monopoly to expand into new markets at every given chance.. you'd think they would make a better effort to lock down their sortware.. but each time they release a new OS, its quickly followed by a new biggest ever type flaw.. like XP and uPnP and now 2003 and the rpc flaw that blaster is based on. M$ probably isn't unhappy about this at all, in their minds its probably just good PR for getting Paladium pushed though later on. I'll just quote Douglas Adams, writing about Windows 95 in an article in 'The Guardian' 'The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he, by peddling second-rate technology, who led them into it in the first place.' Paul M Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Bill Gates didn't make people idiots, God did. Hate the user, not the developer. Next... Brandon Vanderberg www.clueless.m$killedmydoggy.andi'mgonnacry.whaaa.com Linux User #34.5 | Linux machine 123amicoolyet472notyet340now?987NO!needlongersig05789 Kernel 9.12.45customsupercoolAllYourThreadsAreBelongToUs Current load = WhoGivesAFlyingFock | Average Load = NoOneDoes Number of times aterm has been run since last reboot = 12,638 (cuz people wanna know that) My signature isn't long enough to make me l33t yet... This computer is %100 Microsoft tolerant. I drive a 1971 Ford Truck. I can work on any part of it, so everybody driving anything else must suck. And the people that make those other cars are trying to take over the world and must be kill- ... er... sued. - B. Vanderberg (about 5 minutes ago) FRANKI: While I agree with that to a degree.. I don't think its the whole picture.. M$ is about money.. not software, they have an extremely bad record with regards to security problems and just buggy software.. and yet they still ship now, fix later. Considering they use their monopoly to expand into new markets at every given chance.. you'd think they would make a better effort to lock down their sortware.. but each time they release a new OS, its quickly followed by a new biggest ever type flaw.. like XP and uPnP and now 2003 and the rpc flaw that blaster is based on. M$ probably isn't unhappy about this at all, in their minds its probably just good PR for getting Paladium pushed though later on. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 10:59, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Friday August 15 2003 05:02 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: On 16 Aug 2003 07:49:28 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wonder if they're going to change their official stance on linux and OSS now that they've had to resort to linux to save their ass? No, once it has passed, they'll probably just fire the tech who set it up and disavow any knowledge of it. Charles Well someone please tell me how you'd run Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Linux ?? ... or is the server just spoofed? HONEYPOT, mate. Virtualised. -- Sat Aug 16 16:25:01 EST 2003 16:25:01 up 12 days, 20:13, 3 users, load average: 1.19, 1.12, 1.10 - |____ | illawarra computer services| | /-oo /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * huz|taff comment ca s'appelle deja le site avec les cartes huz|taff mappi.com a pas l'air d'etre ca huz|taff celui qui me dit xplanet je le tape rabbit magicthegathering.con #gentoofr Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen Kuhn Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 10:22 PM To: Mandrake Newbie Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt. On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 08:44, Erylon Hines wrote: Looks like that's whats been done. Any errors trying to access will have a lot to do with DNS updates not showing up on our servers for 24 hours or so (just guessing, but I've seen it before). However, their solution is pretty half-assed, and I can see all kinds of holes in their thinking. The next dns worm that's aimed at them will be getting its address from Google or somewhere similar, and not using the static address like this one apparantly does. Also, I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't more to this worm than the spin doctors would have us believe, because the solution MS may be using seems kind of extreme. They've sacrificed the update feature for hundreds of thousands of users, many of whom are going to become infected in the next 24 hours. A fishy smell, there. This is a perfect example of a Microsoft fix. Avoid the REAL issue and do something different. They're not fixing the initial problem, and they already know that they're boxs can't stand the heat. They're taking the coward's way out. I don't think they're realising that they've just fsck'ed millions of Windows users that don't have a clue about this bug or any of what's been going on. I am just waiting to see what kind of press they're going to release to make themselves look good again - I'm sure it will have heaps of spin in it... -- Sat Aug 16 15:15:00 EST 2003 15:15:00 up 12 days, 19:03, 3 users, load average: 1.52, 1.89, 2.26 - |____ | illawarra computer services| | /-oo /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Microsoft Mandatory Survey (#13) Customers who want to upgrade to Windows 98 Second Edition must now fill out a Microsoft survey online before they can order the bugfix/upgrade. Question 13: Which of the following new Microsoft products do you plan on buying within the next 6 months? A. Windows For Babies(tm) - Using an enhanced click-n-drool interface, babies will be able to learn how to use a Wintel computer, giving them a head start in living in a Microsoft-led world. B. Where In Redmond Is Carmen Sandiego?(tm) - The archvillian Sandiego has stolen the Windows source code and must be stopped before she can publish it on the Net. C. ActiveKeyboard 2000(tm) - An ergonomic keyboard that replaces useless keys like SysRq and Scroll Lock with handy keys like Play Solitaire and Visit Microsoft.com. D. Visual BatchFile(tm) - An IDE and compiler for the MS-DOS batch file language. MSNBC calls it better than Perl. Anyone dumb enough to leave a PC wide open with no protection, and got hit by this worm deserves it - Just as much as someone who runs linux with no security deserves to have their box owned. Bill Gates didn't make people idiots, God did. Hate the user, not the developer. Next... Brandon Vanderberg www.clueless.m$killedmydoggy.andi'mgonnacry.whaaa.com Linux User #34.5 | Linux machine 123amicoolyet472notyet340now?987NO!needlongersig05789 Kernel 9.12.45customsupercoolAllYourThreadsAreBelongToUs Current load = WhoGivesAFlyingFock | Average Load = NoOneDoes Number of times aterm has been run since last reboot = 12,638 (cuz people wanna know that) My signature isn't long enough to make me l33t yet... This computer is %100 Microsoft tolerant. I drive a 1971 Ford Truck. I can work on any part of it, so everybody driving anything else must suck. And the people that make those other cars are trying to take over the world and must be kill- ... er... sued. - B. Vanderberg (about 5 minutes ago) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 15:27, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: Which is why we need to get the word out as widely as possible. Allow me to demonstrate: http://www.pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7498 Enough said :) Has anyone submitted this to Slashdot and Newsforge yet? (grin) OH, and OSNews...and Internet News...and The Register...and Then Inquirer...and MSNBC... Yhaw! -- Sat Aug 16 17:34:59 EST 2003 17:34:59 up 12 days, 21:23, 3 users, load average: 2.57, 2.25, 1.91 - |____ | illawarra computer services| | /-oo /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * BOFH excuse #231: We had to turn off that service to comply with the CDA Bill. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Joe Six Pack here, Just to say that the hammer has fallen! I don't care how you say it, slice it or dice it LINUX IS SAVING WINDOWS!! ALL WHO AGREE SAY I!! Sincerely, J6P touring Japan! On Saturday 16 August 2003 7:08 am, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 04:58, Erylon Hines wrote: Yesand no. What I see is a cache server (akamai) running Linux. The MS site is an IIS server. It is a way for MS to use a third party to lighten the bandwidth load--having akamai serve up a cached copy of the Windows Update site. From the perspective of Joe Sixpack American just the mere fact that Microsoft is making use of linux is more than enough to bring down the hammer. -- Sent 2u on a M$ free system!! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 10:26, Brandon Vanderberg wrote: Anyone dumb enough to leave a PC wide open with no protection, and got hit by this worm deserves it - Just as much as someone who runs linux with no security deserves to have their box owned. Bill Gates didn't make people idiots, God did. Hate the user, not the developer. Next... Brandon Vanderberg www.clueless.m$killedmydoggy.andi'mgonnacry.whaaa.com Linux User #34.5 | Linux machine 123amicoolyet472notyet340now?987NO!needlongersig05789 Kernel 9.12.45customsupercoolAllYourThreadsAreBelongToUs Current load = WhoGivesAFlyingFock | Average Load = NoOneDoes Number of times aterm has been run since last reboot = 12,638 (cuz people wanna know that) My signature isn't long enough to make me l33t yet... This computer is %100 Microsoft tolerant. I drive a 1971 Ford Truck. I can work on any part of it, so everybody driving anything else must suck. And the people that make those other cars are trying to take over the world and must be kill- ... er... sued. - B. Vanderberg (about 5 minutes ago) __ Feel you're being a bit harsh here. Don't forget that the vast majority of computer users/car drivers/TV watchers have no idea what goes on under the hood only realise this when things go wrong. Ms has been sold on it's ease of use - and people have believed the salesmen (it's also been sold on greater security). By the time a lot of folks find out it's too late, and by that time all sorts of behind the scenes activity has been going on. Remember the greats of the past: Ford Pinto, Firestone tyres, etc. etc.? Blame the developer. Paul M. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 03:26, Brandon Vanderberg wrote: Brandon, as I see it tho, M$ built a system designed to require expensive maintenance, as a business model. linus builds a system to 'work right' as an Operation system, as an Computer Operation System model. Let's see do I want an expensive vacuum cleaner that requires expensive repair and a certificated maintenance tech to change the bag, and it does not really have the suction, or beater brush the Other One does, and is hard to push, but once you learn where the button to allow you to push it, even a grown women can push it) , and the Other One, while free, (all I have to do is pick it up, and the manufacturer says if I like it, I can pay what I feel it is worth), made of the latest and best components, and the manufacturer says hey let us know how it works, cause we want to make it better still, and we know it ain't gonna ever be perfect, but we do have it so we think it should position itself to catch spills before they happen. Well, If I am a stock holder of Expensive Vac. company, I really like the Expensive Vac. Brand, and want everyone to think 'hey that Expensive Vac. is the way to go, heck the Other One Vacs. have a button to make it easier to push, and Other One Vacs _don't_ even have a button to make it easier to push, heck who is gonna fix your Other One vac, when the bag is full, who you gonna call?? heck I don't even know anyone certified to empty the bag on an Other One vac. (the fact that the Other One Vac. empties its own filter, is totally missed by the stockholder for Expensive Vac. Know what I mean? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3154117 has the headline 'Internet worm 'thwarted'' and says that MS 'implemented a series of counter-measures' 'However, a flaw in the worm may have enabled Microsoft to fend off its worst effects. The worm instructed computers to call up http://windowsupdate.com - which is an incorrect address for reaching the actual Microsoft website that houses the software patch that protects against the worm.' Paul M. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 21:47, Paul wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3154117 has the headline 'Internet worm 'thwarted'' and says that MS 'implemented a series of counter-measures' 'However, a flaw in the worm may have enabled Microsoft to fend off its worst effects. The worm instructed computers to call up http://windowsupdate.com - which is an incorrect address for reaching the actual Microsoft website that houses the software patch that protects against the worm.' Paul M. ...and worded in such a way as to make themselves look less like panicked jassasses and more like some kinda thinking, ingenious heroes, ay wot mate? -- Sat Aug 16 22:00:00 EST 2003 22:00:00 up 13 days, 1:48, 3 users, load average: 1.03, 1.18, 1.23 - |____ | illawarra computer services| | /-oo /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Therefore it is necessary to learn how not to be good, and to use this knowledge and not use it, according to the necessity of the cause. -- Machiavelli Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Still think Dyson is the best though ed tharp wrote: On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 03:26, Brandon Vanderberg wrote: Brandon, as I see it tho, M$ built a system designed to require expensive maintenance, as a business model. linus builds a system to 'work right' as an Operation system, as an Computer Operation System model. Let's see do I want an expensive vacuum cleaner that requires expensive repair and a certificated maintenance tech to change the bag, and it does not really have the suction, or beater brush the Other One does, and is hard to push, but once you learn where the button to allow you to push it, even a grown women can push it) , and the Other One, while free, (all I have to do is pick it up, and the manufacturer says if I like it, I can pay what I feel it is worth), made of the latest and best components, and the manufacturer says hey let us know how it works, cause we want to make it better still, and we know it ain't gonna ever be perfect, but we do have it so we think it should position itself to catch spills before they happen. Well, If I am a stock holder of Expensive Vac. company, I really like the Expensive Vac. Brand, and want everyone to think 'hey that Expensive Vac. is the way to go, heck the Other One Vacs. have a button to make it easier to push, and Other One Vacs _don't_ even have a button to make it easier to push, heck who is gonna fix your Other One vac, when the bag is full, who you gonna call?? heck I don't even know anyone certified to empty the bag on an Other One vac. (the fact that the Other One Vac. empties its own filter, is totally missed by the stockholder for Expensive Vac. Know what I mean? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 08:01, Michael Lothian wrote: Still think Dyson is the best though sure,,, in _your_ (the real) world... ed tharp wrote: On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 03:26, Brandon Vanderberg wrote: Brandon, as I see it tho, M$ built a system designed to require expensive maintenance, as a business model. linus builds a system to 'work right' as an Operation system, as an Computer Operation System model. Let's see do I want an expensive vacuum cleaner that requires expensive repair and a certificated maintenance tech to change the bag, and it does not really have the suction, or beater brush the Other One does, and is hard to push, but once you learn where the button to allow you to push it, even a grown women can push it) , and the Other One, while free, (all I have to do is pick it up, and the manufacturer says if I like it, I can pay what I feel it is worth), made of the latest and best components, and the manufacturer says hey let us know how it works, cause we want to make it better still, and we know it ain't gonna ever be perfect, but we do have it so we think it should position itself to catch spills before they happen. Well, If I am a stock holder of Expensive Vac. company, I really like the Expensive Vac. Brand, and want everyone to think 'hey that Expensive Vac. is the way to go, heck the Other One Vacs. have a button to make it easier to push, and Other One Vacs _don't_ even have a button to make it easier to push, heck who is gonna fix your Other One vac, when the bag is full, who you gonna call?? heck I don't even know anyone certified to empty the bag on an Other One vac. (the fact that the Other One Vac. empties its own filter, is totally missed by the stockholder for Expensive Vac. Know what I mean? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:26:47 -0700 Brandon Vanderberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Anyone dumb enough to leave a PC wide open with no protection, and got hit by this worm deserves it - Just as much as someone who runs linux with no security deserves to have their box owned. Operating systems, like any consumer product, *should* be useable by anyone, and the security aspects should be relatively transparent, requiring only that they receive due and proper notification of the need to patch, as Mandrake does and Microsoft does not. Bill Gates didn't make people idiots, God did. Hate the user, not the developer. I find it ironic that you act so arrogant (or in your terms l33t) about this issue, then blast (in your sig) other people for showing thier pride in their ability to run a smooth/custom/useable machine. Sure, the uptime sig thing is maybe a bit superfluous, but take it easy and save the trolling for the OT list. Next... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
No.. http://www.microsoft.com The site www.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. http://microsoft.com The site microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000. In neither case does linux show up. Just 2000 and 2003 server. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sevatio Sent: Saturday, 16 August 2003 10:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt. No, this is for real and unbelievable as it is. Look up www.microsoft.com or microsoft.com and you'll see linux. So yes this is happened. Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Frankie wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brant Fitzsimmons For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from computers commandeered by the MSBlast worm. Guess who they put at the the front line of their defense. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com FRANKI: I don't know if I understand it.. I thought the urls for m$ updates were: http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ The site windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. which goes though to: http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp The site v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Both of those show up as IIS6 on 2003. I had never heard of www.windowsupdate.com before and the page doesn't show up.. Oddly enough.. http://windowsupdate.com also returns just an IIS server on 2003. The site windowsupdate.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Neither that site, nor www.win... shows up in my browser though. regards Franki http://htmlfixit.com You are absolutely correct. www.windowsupdate.com is not coming up. I do know, however, that it does indeed exist as I've accessed it many times in the past. Akamai has also been doing Microsoft's DNS work ever since that very large DNS crack at MS brought down most of their network 5 or so years ago, so they have been using Linux, where they needed extra security, for quite a while. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 10:26, Brandon Vanderberg wrote: Anyone dumb enough to leave a PC wide open with no protection, and got hit by this worm deserves it - Just as much as someone who runs linux with no security deserves to have their box owned. Bill Gates didn't make people idiots, God did. Hate the user, not the developer. Next... Brandon Vanderberg __ Feel you're being a bit harsh here. Don't forget that the vast majority of computer users/car drivers/TV watchers have no idea what goes on under the hood only realise this when things go wrong. Ms has been sold on it's ease of use - and people have believed the salesmen (it's also been sold on greater security). By the time a lot of folks find out it's too late, and by that time all sorts of behind the scenes activity has been going on. Remember the greats of the past: Ford Pinto, Firestone tyres, etc. etc.? Blame the developer. Paul M. Yeah, Though I would agree that most do not understand what's going on under the hood, it's the decision not to protect their computer (whatever it's OS) that leaves them open to attacks. It doesn't take an advanced Computer Science degree or even formal computer training to know that systems which are regularly connected to the Internet should be protected - with a good firewall and regular software updates at a minimum. I've found (and firmly believe) that reinforcing this to users is far more productive than blaming the person that wrote the software. And no, I don't really hate users - just bad decisions like not using the tools and advice that are widely available. Brandon Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Stirred up a hornet's nest didn't I? ;) On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:26:47 -0700 Brandon Vanderberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Anyone dumb enough to leave a PC wide open with no protection, and got hit by this worm deserves it - Just as much as someone who runs linux with no security deserves to have their box owned. Operating systems, like any consumer product, *should* be useable by anyone, and the security aspects should be relatively transparent, requiring only that they receive due and proper notification of the need to patch, as Mandrake does and Microsoft does not. OSs should be useable and they are. It's just not safe (wise) to connect them to the Internet without protection. As for notification, both Mdk and MS send patch updates. And both advise using some kind of firewall. Bill Gates didn't make people idiots, God did. Hate the user, not the developer. I find it ironic that you act so arrogant (or in your terms l33t) about this issue, then blast (in your sig) other people for showing thier pride in their ability to run a smooth/custom/useable machine. Sure, the uptime sig thing is maybe a bit superfluous, but take it easy and save the trolling for the OT list. Next... Not arrogant and certainly not l33t (whatever it means). And taking a jab at Stephen's sig is not blasting you or anyone else. He can take it, so cowboy up. Troll on, troller. Brandon Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 13:53, Brandon Vanderberg wrote: Stirred up a hornet's nest didn't I? ;) Not really. Not arrogant and certainly not l33t (whatever it means). And taking a jab at Stephen's sig is not blasting you or anyone else. He can take it, so cowboy up. Troll on, troller. Brandon Yep. LX -- °°° Linux Mandrake 9.1 Kernel 2.4.21-0.13mdk *Catch Star Trek Enterprise, Wednesdays on UPN* Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Hello, It seems to me that this is an insolubale problem. The 'Joe six pack' crowd will never be able to outhack someone who is au currant and deals with networking day in and day out, even if they understand the need for protection. As they say, 'where there's a will there's a way.' -Jim On Saturday 16 August 2003 03:32 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Great attitude! Since when does someone with a lack of knowledge deserve to be harmed? When you first started using computers did you deserve to have your computer hacked every day until you knew how to adequately secure it? When you learned to walk did you deserve to have your parents knock you down every time you tried until you developed the coordination to resist being knocked down? Why are you hating anyone? Bill Gates didn't make anyone stupid and neither did God. Bill Gates told people that ease of use was all that there was to computers. He also neglected to tell potential customers that pure ease of use without a solid foundation in a secure, proper design would negate the effects of the ease of use. I don't think that anyone (including yourself) can be self-righteous enough to claim that they have never been influenced by a daily bombardment of ads from various companies, including software companies. Why don't you spend your time trying to inform those people that got their boxes owned instead of wasting our time calling them names. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 05:25, James Henry Maiewski wrote: Hello, It seems to me that this is an insolubale problem. The 'Joe six pack' crowd will never be able to outhack someone who is au currant and deals with networking day in and day out, even if they understand the need for protection. As they say, 'where there's a will there's a way.' -Jim *** Difference is if Joe Sixpack catches you you would be in a world of hurt right after he opened that can of Whoopass On Saturday 16 August 2003 03:32 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Great attitude! Since when does someone with a lack of knowledge deserve to be harmed? When you first started using computers did you deserve to have your computer hacked every day until you knew how to adequately secure it? When you learned to walk did you deserve to have your parents knock you down every time you tried until you developed the coordination to resist being knocked down? Why are you hating anyone? Bill Gates didn't make anyone stupid and neither did God. Bill Gates told people that ease of use was all that there was to computers. He also neglected to tell potential customers that pure ease of use without a solid foundation in a secure, proper design would negate the effects of the ease of use. I don't think that anyone (including yourself) can be self-righteous enough to claim that they have never been influenced by a daily bombardment of ads from various companies, including software companies. Why don't you spend your time trying to inform those people that got their boxes owned instead of wasting our time calling them names. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Feel you're being a bit harsh here. Don't forget that the vast majority of computer users/car drivers/TV watchers have no idea what goes on under the hood only realise this when things go wrong. Ms has been sold on it's ease of use - and people have believed the salesmen (it's also been sold on greater security). By the time a lot of folks find out it's too late, and by that time all sorts of behind the scenes activity has been going on. Remember the greats of the past: Ford Pinto, Firestone tyres, etc. etc.? Blame the developer. Paul M. Yeah, Though I would agree that most do not understand what's going on under the hood, it's the decision not to protect their computer (whatever it's OS) that leaves them open to attacks. It doesn't take an advanced Computer Science degree or even formal computer training to know that systems which are regularly connected to the Internet should be protected - with a good firewall and regular software updates at a minimum. I've found (and firmly believe) that reinforcing this to users is far more productive than blaming the person that wrote the software. And no, I don't really hate users - just bad decisions like not using the tools and advice that are widely available. Brandon I tend to think a large part of the problem is that the government and the lawyers have spent way to much time protecting us from ourselfs. We have so many warning labels on so many things that a lot of people assume that if there was any kind of a potential problem there would be huge red warning labels stuck all over the computer and some sort of big banner add kind of warnings coming up on their email, dial up connection and browser. There are so many warning labels on so many things that people have started to think that anything without at least 10 huge warning labels is 99.9% harmless afterall just yesterday I purchased a screwdriver with a warning label telling me not to use that tool without eye protection!!! When I was growing up most power tools did not have warning labels. McDonald's even warns us that hot chocolate may be hot. I thought the name of the product all ready did that. Please do not get me wrong!!! I do not think computers should come with warnings all over them. NO!!! I think things should go the other way, 95% of all warning labels should be removed and in 6 months to a year the problem will take care of itself. Marc KM5KW Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 07:11, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from computers commandeered by the MSBlast worm. Guess who they put at the the front line of their defense. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com Wonder if they're going to change their official stance on linux and OSS now that they've had to resort to linux to save their ass? -- Sat Aug 16 07:45:01 EST 2003 07:45:01 up 12 days, 11:33, 3 users, load average: 3.01, 2.36, 2.02 - |____ | illawarra computer services| | /-oo /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * When I grow up, I'm going to bovine university! --Ralph Wiggum Lisa the Vegetarian (Episode 3F03) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On 16 Aug 2003 07:49:28 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wonder if they're going to change their official stance on linux and OSS now that they've had to resort to linux to save their ass? No, once it has passed, they'll probably just fire the tech who set it up and disavow any knowledge of it. Charles -- If you are a fatalist, what can you do about it? -- Ann Edwards-Duff - Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.22-0.5mdkenterprise http://www.eslrahc.com - pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Yesand no. What I see is a cache server (akamai) running Linux. The MS site is an IIS server. It is a way for MS to use a third party to lighten the bandwidth load--having akamai serve up a cached copy of the Windows Update site. e. On Friday 15 August 2003 05:11 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from computers commandeered by the MSBlast worm. Guess who they put at the the front line of their defense. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Frankie wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brant Fitzsimmons For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from computers commandeered by the MSBlast worm. Guess who they put at the the front line of their defense. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com FRANKI: I don't know if I understand it.. I thought the urls for m$ updates were: http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ The site windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. which goes though to: http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp The site v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Both of those show up as IIS6 on 2003. I had never heard of www.windowsupdate.com before and the page doesn't show up.. Oddly enough.. http://windowsupdate.com also returns just an IIS server on 2003. The site windowsupdate.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Neither that site, nor www.win... shows up in my browser though. regards Franki http://htmlfixit.com You are absolutely correct. www.windowsupdate.com is not coming up. I do know, however, that it does indeed exist as I've accessed it many times in the past. Akamai has also been doing Microsoft's DNS work ever since that very large DNS crack at MS brought down most of their network 5 or so years ago, so they have been using Linux, where they needed extra security, for quite a while. -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.25mdkcustom KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
If that was the address that the attack was pointed at won't it make sence for MS to disable it? Mike Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Frankie wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brant Fitzsimmons For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from computers commandeered by the MSBlast worm. Guess who they put at the the front line of their defense. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com FRANKI: I don't know if I understand it.. I thought the urls for m$ updates were: http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ The site windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. which goes though to: http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp The site v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Both of those show up as IIS6 on 2003. I had never heard of www.windowsupdate.com before and the page doesn't show up.. Oddly enough.. http://windowsupdate.com also returns just an IIS server on 2003. The site windowsupdate.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Neither that site, nor www.win... shows up in my browser though. regards Franki http://htmlfixit.com You are absolutely correct. www.windowsupdate.com is not coming up. I do know, however, that it does indeed exist as I've accessed it many times in the past. Akamai has also been doing Microsoft's DNS work ever since that very large DNS crack at MS brought down most of their network 5 or so years ago, so they have been using Linux, where they needed extra security, for quite a while. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
http://www.iht.com/articles/106638.html Michael Lothian wrote: If that was the address that the attack was pointed at won't it make sence for MS to disable it? Mike Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Frankie wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brant Fitzsimmons For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from computers commandeered by the MSBlast worm. Guess who they put at the the front line of their defense. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com FRANKI: I don't know if I understand it.. I thought the urls for m$ updates were: http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ The site windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. which goes though to: http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp The site v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Both of those show up as IIS6 on 2003. I had never heard of www.windowsupdate.com before and the page doesn't show up.. Oddly enough.. http://windowsupdate.com also returns just an IIS server on 2003. The site windowsupdate.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Neither that site, nor www.win... shows up in my browser though. regards Franki http://htmlfixit.com You are absolutely correct. www.windowsupdate.com is not coming up. I do know, however, that it does indeed exist as I've accessed it many times in the past. Akamai has also been doing Microsoft's DNS work ever since that very large DNS crack at MS brought down most of their network 5 or so years ago, so they have been using Linux, where they needed extra security, for quite a while. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
snip Looks like they've decided to drop it or something: http://www.msnbc.com/news/952935.asp?vts=081520031730 Michael -- Michael Viron Core Systems Group Simple End User Linux You are absolutely correct. www.windowsupdate.com is not coming up. I do know, however, that it does indeed exist as I've accessed it many times in the past. Akamai has also been doing Microsoft's DNS work ever since that very large DNS crack at MS brought down most of their network 5 or so years ago, so they have been using Linux, where they needed extra security, for quite a while. -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.25mdkcustom KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Friday August 15 2003 05:02 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: On 16 Aug 2003 07:49:28 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wonder if they're going to change their official stance on linux and OSS now that they've had to resort to linux to save their ass? No, once it has passed, they'll probably just fire the tech who set it up and disavow any knowledge of it. Charles Well someone please tell me how you'd run Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Linux ?? ... or is the server just spoofed? -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Friday August 15 2003 01:58 pm, Erylon Hines wrote: Yesand no. What I see is a cache server (akamai) running Linux. The MS site is an IIS server. It is a way for MS to use a third party to lighten the bandwidth load--having akamai serve up a cached copy of the Windows Update site. That still amounts to Linux savin their butt. Their main site, still comes back An error occured while loading http://www.windowsupdate.com: Unknown host www.windowsupdate.com and is down http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Friday 15 August 2003 06:49 pm, Frankie wrote: snipped I don't know if I understand it.. I thought the urls for m$ updates were: http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ which goes though to: http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp The site v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. I had never heard of www.windowsupdate.com before and the page doesn't show up.. regards Franki Franki: Just for the hell of it, I just tried two of your links with the following results: 1. windowsupdate.microsoft.com: Konq jumps to site, little gear spins, but no one answers. Since it's August 16 in much of the world right now (8:30 pm EDT), could it be that they're getting hammered by MSBLAST itself? Or could it be all of the guys who have put off downloading the patches until tonight? I'm pretty sure that it didn't gag on trying to figure out that I wasn't running Windows because gkrellm only showed a very small amount of outbound traffic. 2. v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com: They thanked me very much for my interest, but I was told that the site is for windows users only. Well, they're getting smart enough to know that there are other O/S and other browsers out there. Somewhat OT, but here's the funniest thing I've seen all week: When the news of this worm first hit the fan, there was an article on ZDNet about it. Some idiot posted about how there was no need to be concerned about this worm so long as your site had a firewall and you had run all of the MS updates. Then, to show what a really great administrator he was, he described how he removed the worm from several PC's at this site. If there is any justice in this world, then this twerp should be unemployed by now. (I've found that reading the replies to articles at ZDNet is good for my self esteem.) -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:59:30 -0500, Tom Brinkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well someone please tell me how you'd run Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Linux ?? ... or is the server just spoofed? Neither. It's an IIS server _behind_ a Linux server. From netcraft: Webservers that operate behind a caching system, load balancer, reverse proxy server or a firewall may sometimes report the operating system of the intermediate machine. Hence reports of 'Microsoft/IIS on Linux' may indicate that either the web server is behind a Linux server that is acting as a reverse proxy, or has configured the Akamai caching system such that the first request to the site goes to one of Akamai's servers [which run Linux], or as in the case of www.walmart.com has been configured to send a misleading signature. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Friday 15 August 2003 08:59 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Friday August 15 2003 05:02 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: On 16 Aug 2003 07:49:28 +1000 Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wonder if they're going to change their official stance on linux and OSS now that they've had to resort to linux to save their ass? No, once it has passed, they'll probably just fire the tech who set it up and disavow any knowledge of it. Charles Well someone please tell me how you'd run Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Linux ?? ... or is the server just spoofed? Tom: From what I could make out from the Netcraft FAQ, they've got the Linux machine out front with the MS stuff behind that. My guess is that the main concern at MS is what happens when August 16 gets here (which it already has in many places) and all of those wormed machines start attacking at the same time that all of the leave-it-to-the-last-minute guys (I'm a charter member of that club) start updating, creating a double DOS attack. This would be a real black eye for MS after all of the crap about Trustworthy Computing (from what I've read, this critter only affects W2K and XP, NOT the old 9.x stuff), and would make the Munich city fathers look very astute indeed. In a situation like this, even Steve Ballmer would probably say, Open source, open schmource, just keep the update site open! (Add profanities to suit.) This is going to be an interesting weekend. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Looks like that's whats been done. Any errors trying to access will have a lot to do with DNS updates not showing up on our servers for 24 hours or so (just guessing, but I've seen it before). However, their solution is pretty half-assed, and I can see all kinds of holes in their thinking. The next dns worm that's aimed at them will be getting its address from Google or somewhere similar, and not using the static address like this one apparantly does. Also, I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't more to this worm than the spin doctors would have us believe, because the solution MS may be using seems kind of extreme. They've sacrificed the update feature for hundreds of thousands of users, many of whom are going to become infected in the next 24 hours. A fishy smell, there. On Friday 15 August 2003 08:18 pm, Michael Lothian wrote: If that was the address that the attack was pointed at won't it make sence for MS to disable it? Mike Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
No, this is for real and unbelievable as it is. Look up www.microsoft.com or microsoft.com and you'll see linux. So yes this is happened. Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Frankie wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brant Fitzsimmons For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from computers commandeered by the MSBlast worm. Guess who they put at the the front line of their defense. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.windowsupdate.com FRANKI: I don't know if I understand it.. I thought the urls for m$ updates were: http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/ The site windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. which goes though to: http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp The site v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Both of those show up as IIS6 on 2003. I had never heard of www.windowsupdate.com before and the page doesn't show up.. Oddly enough.. http://windowsupdate.com also returns just an IIS server on 2003. The site windowsupdate.com is running Microsoft-IIS/6.0 on Windows Server 2003. Neither that site, nor www.win... shows up in my browser though. regards Franki http://htmlfixit.com You are absolutely correct. www.windowsupdate.com is not coming up. I do know, however, that it does indeed exist as I've accessed it many times in the past. Akamai has also been doing Microsoft's DNS work ever since that very large DNS crack at MS brought down most of their network 5 or so years ago, so they have been using Linux, where they needed extra security, for quite a while. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
For those who don't know--MS has changed around a lot of their Windows Update network to try and handle the expected onslaught of hits from :) Anyhow, I hope SCO gets their $1300 fee per machine from MS. ;) *Sweet Justice* Brant Fitzsimmons David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
Erylon Hines wrote: Looks like that's whats been done. Any errors trying to access will have a lot to do with DNS updates not showing up on our servers for 24 hours or so (just guessing, but I've seen it before). However, their solution is pretty half-assed, and I can see all kinds of holes in their thinking. The next dns worm that's aimed at them will be getting its address from Google or somewhere similar, and not using the static address like this one apparantly does. Also, I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't more to this worm than the spin doctors would have us believe, because the solution MS may be using seems kind of extreme. They've sacrificed the update feature for hundreds of thousands of users, many of whom are going to become infected in the next 24 hours. A fishy smell, there. On Friday 15 August 2003 08:18 pm, Michael Lothian wrote: If that was the address that the attack was pointed at won't it make sence for MS to disable it? Mike They didn't actually disable Windows Updates--they just disabled windowsupdate.com which redirects to http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/. You can still get updates. I'm looking at the page right now. -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.25mdkcustom KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 08:44, Erylon Hines wrote: Looks like that's whats been done. Any errors trying to access will have a lot to do with DNS updates not showing up on our servers for 24 hours or so (just guessing, but I've seen it before). However, their solution is pretty half-assed, and I can see all kinds of holes in their thinking. The next dns worm that's aimed at them will be getting its address from Google or somewhere similar, and not using the static address like this one apparantly does. Also, I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't more to this worm than the spin doctors would have us believe, because the solution MS may be using seems kind of extreme. They've sacrificed the update feature for hundreds of thousands of users, many of whom are going to become infected in the next 24 hours. A fishy smell, there. This is a perfect example of a Microsoft fix. Avoid the REAL issue and do something different. They're not fixing the initial problem, and they already know that they're boxs can't stand the heat. They're taking the coward's way out. I don't think they're realising that they've just fsck'ed millions of Windows users that don't have a clue about this bug or any of what's been going on. I am just waiting to see what kind of press they're going to release to make themselves look good again - I'm sure it will have heaps of spin in it... -- Sat Aug 16 15:15:00 EST 2003 15:15:00 up 12 days, 19:03, 3 users, load average: 1.52, 1.89, 2.26 - |____ | illawarra computer services| | /-oo /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Microsoft Mandatory Survey (#13) Customers who want to upgrade to Windows 98 Second Edition must now fill out a Microsoft survey online before they can order the bugfix/upgrade. Question 13: Which of the following new Microsoft products do you plan on buying within the next 6 months? A. Windows For Babies(tm) - Using an enhanced click-n-drool interface, babies will be able to learn how to use a Wintel computer, giving them a head start in living in a Microsoft-led world. B. Where In Redmond Is Carmen Sandiego?(tm) - The archvillian Sandiego has stolen the Windows source code and must be stopped before she can publish it on the Net. C. ActiveKeyboard 2000(tm) - An ergonomic keyboard that replaces useless keys like SysRq and Scroll Lock with handy keys like Play Solitaire and Visit Microsoft.com. D. Visual BatchFile(tm) - An IDE and compiler for the MS-DOS batch file language. MSNBC calls it better than Perl. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 10:24, Michael Lothian wrote: http://www.iht.com/articles/106638.html I just find this all so personally comical; doesn't matter that the worms would cause damage - Microsoft is causing their own damage to themselves. I'm sure the writer(s) of the bug foresaw this conclusion and are laughing nonetheless. This is a body blow to Microsoft - and this is sure to be the beginning of a large wave of attacks at Microsoft - but unlike the past attacks, this is causing great amounts of media damage as well. Gotta love that stuff. -- Sat Aug 16 15:30:00 EST 2003 15:30:00 up 12 days, 19:18, 3 users, load average: 1.59, 1.52, 1.77 - |____ | illawarra computer services| | /-oo /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn | | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1+ RH 9 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Cold be hand and heart and bone, and cold be sleep under stone; never more to wake on stony bed, never, till the Sun fails and the Moon is dead. In the black wind the stars shall die, and still on gold here let them lie, till the dark lord lifts his hand over dead sea and withered land. -- J. R. R. Tolkien Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux saves MS's butt.
On 16 Aug 2003 15:21:45 +1000, Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 2003-08-16 at 08:44, Erylon Hines wrote:
Looks like that's whats been done. Any errors trying to access will have a
lot to do with DNS updates not showing up on our servers for 24 hours or so
(just guessing, but I've seen it before).
However, their solution is pretty half-assed, and I can see all kinds of
holes in their thinking. The next dns worm that's aimed at them will be
getting its address from Google or somewhere similar, and not using the
static address like this one apparantly does. Also, I'm beginning to wonder
if there isn't more to this worm than the spin doctors would have us
believe, because the solution MS may be using seems kind of extreme.
They've sacrificed the update feature for hundreds of thousands of users,
many of whom are going to become infected in the next 24 hours. A fishy
smell, there.
This is a perfect example of a Microsoft fix. Avoid the REAL issue and
do something different.
They're not fixing the initial problem, and they already know that
they're boxs can't stand the heat. They're taking the coward's way out.
I don't think they're realising that they've just fsck'ed millions of
Windows users that don't have a clue about this bug or any of what's
been going on.
I am just waiting to see what kind of press they're going to release to
make themselves look good again - I'm sure it will have heaps of spin in
it...
Which is why we need to get the word out as widely as possible. Allow me to
demonstrate:
http://www.pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=7498
Enough said :)
--
Sridhar Dhanapalan [Yama | http://www.pclinuxonline.com/]
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All us CEOs are auditioning for Jackass, the Movie: Part 2.
-- Scott McNealy, Sun Microsystems CEO, 2002
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