RE: [newbie] rh to mandrake
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Larry Marshall Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 6:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] rh to mandrake I agree. There are way too many distos that are beta. Marketing Departments have been known to shoot themselves many times in the foot. Good point :-) Buggy software in the Linux world can get difficult to iron out. But, then again, that's part of the fun of learning. Or, is it? Is this is a game maybe so. If it's to replace the world's desktop operating system, no. I look at software (all software) from several perspectives. Is the software useful? Is it useful to me? Will I recommend it to people who aren't well-based on computers. So far, Linux is failing to pass muster in that third category. If the Linux market is the saavey computer computer user market than this isn't a problem. Otherwise, both the developers and marketeers are failing miserably. Cheers --- Larry Hey Larry, I think it's a little early to pass judgment. Many devoted users and developers have spent many hours of their personal time on creating, developing the kernel and general apps. We can look at the concept of the rpm. I think it's a great idea. However, I have noticed that it is still looked upon as a developer's or hacker's(I hate saying that word) operating system. If we don't want the beta releases than so be it. We have to start some time. The software must be released. New users may prefer the visual aspect while older users may prefer text. It's nice to have both. It's a long haul but an interesting one. And, if you make a buck or two along the road, that's okay. Roman Registered Linux User #179293
RE: [newbie] rh to mandrake
I think it's a little early to pass judgment. Many devoted users and developers have spent many hours of their personal Not sure what you mean here Roman as we "pass judgement" constantly, making decisions about what software we use. If we hadn't "passed judgement" on Linux, and decided it was useful for us we wouldn't be here. If we don't want the beta releases than so be it. We have to start some While I do think we need to educate newbies about what beta software is and what can be expected from it, I think when companies start shrinkwrapping it and selling it in KMart there is little we can do but conclude that they have lost sight of what a beta is, who their prospective customer base (in Kmart) is and whether or not releasing a "This is Linux...it's great" package with KDE2 in its current state and LM7.2beta is the best way to move onto the casual user desktop. time. The software must be released. New users may prefer the visual aspect I'm more concerned about new users trying to install products like LM7.2 or RH7.0 and saying "_They're right...this is a lousy operating system." I don't think a bunch of broken shells does much to sell the otherwise rock solid OS that Linux is. For instance, LM could have just as easily release 7.2 with KDE1.1, XFree3.3, etc. but with all the new hardware support and they'd have had a much better entry product to sell the notion of Linux. This, in fact, would have been more consistent with the 'point' upgrade they've applied to the version number. Then, once KDE2 and XFree4.01 got the bugs wrung out of it they could release v8.0. In short, many of us have complained that Microsoft releases buggy software. Why should be be pleased to find that the distro people are doing exactly the same thing? They would do well to follow the example of those developing the kernelslow is good. Cheers --- Larry
Re: [newbie] rh to mandrake
Larry Marshall wrote: When installing can I browse through every package and install whatever I want? In expert mode you can browse through the package listings and select/deselect which ones you want installed. You can't browse through each rpm package though...nor would you want to. Can I use linuxconf to configure my system? The installer will let you configure most of the stuff you'd want to configure but sure, you can use linuxconf after you're operational. Can I use XF86Setup to configure my X? Sure, but again, the installer will let you set up your video. The Linux installer is far more detailed than the RedHat installer, especially in expert mode. Can i disable the crap displayed in the console when at the login prompt? What a great descriptor "crap". I don't know what you mean. You need a login window. What else is there? If i can not or if there is a better method of any of these please let me know. Since you've seen a login window I assume you must have done an install of some kind. I'd recommend doing it again using the expert option. You may find that you won't need to use linuxconf. I am thinking about converting (: Sometimes I think that it was Mandrake's marketing department that released RH7.0 :-) Red Hat's virtue has always been that they weren't quick to incorporate the latest whizbang thingie. That seems to be a passing era. Beware, Mandrake likes bells and whistles too and is becoming more driven by marketing than operation stability. Cheers --- Larry Red Hat's virtue? Marketing? All companies use marketing. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] rh to mandrake
Larry Marshall wrote: Sometimes I think that it was Mandrake's marketing department that released RH7.0 :-) Red Hat's virtue has always been that they weren't quick to incorporate the latest whizbang thingie. That seems to be a Red Hat's virtue? Marketing? All companies use marketing. That's not what I said. Right now we're seeing these distros shoving all sorts of half-baked software into new releases. RedHat used to move more slowly to incorporate software into new releases. THAT was their virtue, though they seem to have changed their view with 7.0. As for these companies using marketing, I really wonder how strong their marketing departments are. They're shooting themselves in the foot with beta versions of software being put into their releases (RH LM), not including basic things like the ANSI C++ library (LM) and sticking things like Star Office under a single-user license (LM). That's certainly not the road to "world domination" as they're playing right into the hands of their detractors. Good marketing people don't do that. And no, it's not the same as Microsoft releasing buggy software as in the case of the Linux world, it's open and easy for people to see that the products are half-baked as statements by the actual producers of the software are there for all to see. Cheers --- Larry Hey Larry, I agree. There are way too many distos that are beta. Marketing Departments have been known to shoot themselves many times in the foot. Buggy software in the Linux world can get difficult to iron out. But, then again, that's part of the fun of learning. Or, is it? -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] rh to mandrake
I agree. There are way too many distos that are beta. Marketing Departments have been known to shoot themselves many times in the foot. Good point :-) Buggy software in the Linux world can get difficult to iron out. But, then again, that's part of the fun of learning. Or, is it? Is this is a game maybe so. If it's to replace the world's desktop operating system, no. I look at software (all software) from several perspectives. Is the software useful? Is it useful to me? Will I recommend it to people who aren't well-based on computers. So far, Linux is failing to pass muster in that third category. If the Linux market is the saavey computer computer user market than this isn't a problem. Otherwise, both the developers and marketeers are failing miserably. Cheers --- Larry
