Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
rikona wrote:
Hello Robin,
Saturday, June 28, 2003, 7:54:35 AM, you wrote:
RT> A lot of them are very well-educated (and I'm not talking about
RT> all that training they got in Pakistan thanks to the CIA). The
RT> word "taliban" derives from "talep", meaning "student".
Very interesting. We probably get a rather distorted view in the US,
as you can see from the comments. Being much closer, you probably
know a lot more than we do. What is the 'glue' that holds this group
together - why do they exist?
It's largely to do with the fact that in Islamic countries, protest is
inherently conservative, in that it appeals to a nostalgic utopianism
based on what an Islamic society is supposed to be like. Western
societies associate protest with the adoption of new ideas (allusions to
Greek democracy notwithstanding), but in the Islamic world, protest is a
matter of eliminating degenerate rulers and returning to the source
(remember that Osama bin Laden's original grudge was against the Saudi
monarchy, not America). The original Islamic order was a kind of social
democracy presided over by a divinely-inspired leader - first Mohammed,
then his successors ("Caliph" means "successor, and the famous
Sunni-Shia schism was over who was the true successor of Mohammed -
probably pointless, since Mohammed never named a successor and probably
didn't intend for there to be one). As the Koran says: "First obey God,
then the Prophet, then the Shura", a shura being a sort of
quasi-democratic tribal council. Of course the fantasy of "pure Islam"
touted by current fundamentalists rarely bears any relation to what the
first Muslims actually practised at Medina, especially with regard to
sexual politics - by the standards of his time (or indeed any time up to
the twentieth century) Mohammed was a feminist.
The second strand is the Islamic veneration of learning. Mohammed is
reported as saying "Seek knowledge, even if you have to go as far as
China", and the Koran is full of exhortations to observe the natural
world. Even the notorious Muslim aversion to alcohol is based in part
on the idea that it destroys the capacity for rational thought. The
Arabic (and Turkish) word "hoja" means both "teacher" and "cleric".
When I moved to Turkey, my social status rose astronomically, partly
because I'm a European (Turks are incredibly Europhile) but mainly
because even in secular Turkey, the old respect for teachers is very
strong. Look at almost any nutty fundamentalist group and you'll see
some intellectual or cleric pulling the strings, usually a sweet-looking
old man with glasses and a long white beard.
RT> They're probably not up to following this list, though.
That's odd, if they're educated. Why is that?
I was being whimsical, but really, it's a different world. Even if they
had the necessary fluency in English (and a lot of them do), Linux is
another language! I once recommended a colleague with email problems to
see the computer centre's sysadmin. He asked me if she spoke English,
and I replied "I don't know - she speaks Unix." It's not just the
technical language - there are whole new rules of discourse here.
Best wishes,
Robin
--
"Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc
makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device
drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some
guy who writes device drivers..." - tjc, post to LWN
Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Univeritesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey
www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
JoeHill wrote: > > whats next? winux??? > > Thanks. I'm gonna have nightmares tonight... Joe, i rarely LOL reading email, but when i do, it's often your fault! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 06:53, Robin Turner wrote: Watch what you say about the Taliban, mate. They might not take too kindly to being compared with Microsoft ;-) Sir Robin ...er, can the Taliban members READ? A lot of them are very well-educated (and I'm not talking about all that training they got in Pakistan thanks to the CIA). The word "taliban" derives from "talep", meaning "student". They're probably not up to following this list, though. Sir Robin -- "Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some guy who writes device drivers..." - tjc, post to LWN Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 06:53, Robin Turner wrote: > Watch what you say about the Taliban, mate. They might not take too > kindly to being compared with Microsoft ;-) > > Sir Robin ...er, can the Taliban members READ? -- Sat Jun 28 17:50:00 EST 2003 17:50:00 up 3 days, 17:36, 4 users, load average: 1.01, 1.00, 0.99 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 & RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * I never said all Democrats were saloonkeepers; what I said was all saloonkeepers were Democrats. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 21:27, Frankie wrote: > yeh, that always amazes me... M$ claim that linux is a clone of a 20 year > old operating system. For all intents and purposes, Windows basic layout ain't changed since 1993; and they're re-using code that's even older - from 1991...hmm...go figure... ...and if something lasts for 20-30 years, there's got to be something good about it, don't ya reckon? UNIX => multi-user OS that developed from a multi-user OS WindowsNT => pseudo-multi-user OS developed from a single-user OS (and I stress PSEUDO because it does not multi-task as does *NIX or variants thereof) -- Fri Jun 27 22:20:01 EST 2003 22:20:01 up 2 days, 22:06, 3 users, load average: 1.30, 1.27, 1.30 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 & RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Peter S. Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:27:54 +0800 "Frankie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > whats next? winux??? Thanks. I'm gonna have nightmares tonight... -- + Joe Hill + Registered Linux user #282046 + Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net + ICQ# 279518458 + Do what thou wilt, this shall be the + whole of the law. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
yeh, that always amazes me... M$ claim that linux is a clone of a 20 year old operating system. what it doesn't mention is that they are copying what they see as all the best bits of same 20 year OS.. no wonder they bought a SCO license. I am amazed at the list of commands in windows that are almost a direct ripoff of unix commands... cracks me up.. and they have stated that they are envious of linux's modular nature whereby not everything requires a reboot.. and now they add a command line version?? whats next? winux??? rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Miark Sent: Friday, 27 June 2003 5:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop? On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:22:04 +0300 Robin Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They don't need to - it's been point and click ever since NT came out. > Though I hear the latest Windows server will have - gasp - a command > line. That'll confuse a lot of people. Yes, M$ is going to implement a command line. They talk and bitch and gripe about how *ni in archaic and lacks power and is difficult to use, but they try to steal ideas and technology from *nix all the time. Hypocritical two-faced lying bastards. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 07:55, Miark wrote: > On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:22:04 +0300 > Robin Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > They don't need to - it's been point and click ever since NT came out. > > Though I hear the latest Windows server will have - gasp - a command > > line. That'll confuse a lot of people. > > Yes, M$ is going to implement a command line. They talk and bitch and > gripe about how *ni in archaic and lacks power and is difficult to use, > but they try to steal ideas and technology from *nix all the time. > Hypocritical two-faced lying bastards. > > Miark Keep in mind that contractors that work(ed) for Microsoft in their support centres are trained to do troubleshooting from COMMAND.COM or CMD.EXE (been there done that) -- Fri Jun 27 09:35:00 EST 2003 09:35:00 up 2 days, 9:21, 3 users, load average: 1.48, 1.25, 1.13 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 & RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * You will receive a legacy which will place you above want. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:22:04 +0300 Robin Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They don't need to - it's been point and click ever since NT came out. > Though I hear the latest Windows server will have - gasp - a command > line. That'll confuse a lot of people. Yes, M$ is going to implement a command line. They talk and bitch and gripe about how *ni in archaic and lacks power and is difficult to use, but they try to steal ideas and technology from *nix all the time. Hypocritical two-faced lying bastards. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
John Wilson wrote: [snip] And yes, it would be wonderful if developers would stop those silly IE only tags out there. Or popups that say "we only support Windows Media Player" as if that's the be all and end all. So if the article accomplishes that it will be helpful. Then again, how many MSCE's read Business Week? How many MSCE's can read? :-) They don't need to - it's been point and click ever since NT came out. Though I hear the latest Windows server will have - gasp - a command line. That'll confuse a lot of people. Sir Robin -- "Some guy breaking into a government computer system and wreaking havoc makes for a more interesting movie plot than some guy writing device drivers. It's hard to work in a good 10-minutes car chase scene with some guy who writes device drivers..." - tjc, post to LWN Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:28:26 -0400 JoeHill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > yep, a lot of the studios are using Linux clusters as "render farms" I > think they call them. The days of SGI being the wizards are fading... This from the Beowulf site: Beowulf Systems are already being used for ... * Computationally intensive activities: optimization problems, stock trend analysis, complex pattern matching, medical research, genetics research, image rendering * Scientific Computing/Scientific Research: engineering/simulations, 3D modeling, finite element analysis, fluid dynamics, PCB/ASIC routing * Large-scale processing of data: data mining, complex data searches results generation, manipulating large amounts of data, data archival and sorting * Web/Internet needs: Web farms, application serving, transaction serving, calculation serving, data serving -- + Joe Hill + Registered Linux user #282046 + Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net + ICQ# 279518458 + Do what thou wilt, this shall be the + whole of the law. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On June 25, 2003 03:49 am, Robin Turner wrote: > Frankie wrote: > > Why??? > > > > This will not hurt apple as much as you think.. > > The reason is that M$ make their money in the PC world just from the > > software.. so when people don't use it, it hurts them.. > > > > If people buy a mac, and put linux on it.. I can't see Apple being too > > upset about it.. since they got the money from the hardware anyway.. > > > > Mac users are a loyal lot.. I can't see many of them swapping to a > > intel/amd system with linux.. more likely they might dual boot their mac > > with linux.. so in light of that, I can't see apple losing market share > > because of linux.. > > > > And it might have another benefit as well.. if apple gets any pressure > > from this..they might start advertising that linux on a mac is the best > > linux.. which can only be a good thing.. > > I agree, especially about the loyalty of Mac users. Some of them talk to > their Macs. Mac could even end up supporting Linux for some of its > users who need that sort of thing (rather like Sun do). > > One thing I noticed when checking the article that the linked article > used as a source was that it said that Linux was predicted to overtake > Macintosh by the end of the year, but not that it was eating Apple's > market share, as the first article implied. On the contrary, it said > that this growth in Linux would push MS's desktop market share below > 90%, implying that only a smalll proportion of this Linux growth would > be at the expense of Apple. The author's main point was about browsers; > if over 10% of web users are not using IE, then webmasters would have a > much greater incentive to make their sites standards-compliant, avoiding > those IE-only tags which other browsers sometimes choke on. This in > turn would encourage users to try alternative browsers to IE. > > Sir Robin In terms of combined desktops yes...but follow again to the actual report the article is based on and it says something different. It does indeed refer to installed base of Linux desktops passing Apple by year end. My crack about Mac users hating Linux is based on fact when I talk to Apple users. They are even more in the FUD mode than the MS hacks and trollers out there. And it does relate back to the fact that Apple users do, in fact, love their machines and can't for the life of them see why anyone would use anything else. Most of the ones I speak to aren't even aware that there are PPC versions of Linux out there but even suggesting that brings wide eyed rage from most of them. True, there are a few who will dual boot, but not many from my experience. And yes, it would be wonderful if developers would stop those silly IE only tags out there. Or popups that say "we only support Windows Media Player" as if that's the be all and end all. So if the article accomplishes that it will be helpful. Then again, how many MSCE's read Business Week? How many MSCE's can read? :-) ttfn John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On 26 Jun 2003 08:32:03 +1000 Stephen Kuhn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > easier to get up and > running in a short amount of time, yadda yadda yadda... apparently with Beowulf, you just pop a CD in one machine in a networked cluster, and it installs itself! -- + Joe Hill + Registered Linux user #282046 + Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net + ICQ# 279518458 + Do what thou wilt, this shall be the + whole of the law. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 03:15, Carroll Grigsby wrote: > Aren't most of the Hollywood high end graphics houses using Linux? Not because > it's cheaper, but because it's faster and more powerful. > > -- cmg A good hunk of them are turning to linux because you don't need to be a rocket scientist to get a cluster going - so it's cheaper all the way around - cheaper on hardware, cheaper on support, easier to get up and running in a short amount of time, yadda yadda yadda... -- Thu Jun 26 08:25:00 EST 2003 08:25:00 up 1 day, 8:11, 2 users, load average: 0.51, 0.56, 0.40 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 & RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * economist, n: Someone who's good with figures, but doesn't have enough personality to become an accountant. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Wednesday 25 June 2003 12:53 am, LeaAnne Kolp wrote: > After reading a Mac users post regarding Linux vs Mac on the desktop, I'm > faced with > countless questions. > > -- > "1). I thought Linux had passed it already, but perhaps I'm confusing it > with > some other statistic." > > Please post a reference link. I'm not too sure on what metric you'd use to > compare Linux > vs. Mac on the desktop. Sales? Downloads? Registered Users? I don't really have a reference link. I had been reading ZDnet articles and saw things about more linux servers and things than ever before and merely presumed that they had already passed the Mac. > > 2). OSX is based on the mach kernal, a modular derivitive created by CMU and > as such is not necessarily linux, but very close. > > "Darwin uses a monolithic kernel based on FreeBSD 4.4 and the OSF/mk Mach 3, > combining BSD's POSIX support with the fine-grained multithreading and > real-time > performance of Mach." > > ( ref: http://www.apple.com/macosx/technologies/darwin.html ) Well, I had originally read about the Mach kernel in a book on linux. In this book, it described the Mach kernel as being "layered" or modular. Hence, the reason for my description. However, I saw this as putting me to task to answer you. Here is a link I found that describes what I was talking about: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_kernel I won't go into much detail since you can read it for yourself, but if you follow the links back to CMU you'll find that the Mach kernel is the basis for most of what you mentioned. You'll also find that the kernel is broken down into a "microkernel" and then small servers on top of that. Any time you have to start passing messages or making calls, depending on how you look at it, to servers that in turn must pass messages or calls onto other servers and the microkernel, it is inherently slower than a kernel where it just does it. > > "Were Apple to be on the > ball enough (and there's presedence to prove otherwise) they could very well > capitalize on the linux movement by making their desktop envrionment run on > linux installations and dropping the mach kernel." > > Apple is a hardware company. Yes, and they are software as well. One of the things they don't talk about much is that they also have a "red box" version of OSX. It is Mac OS for Intel chips. I read several articles a year or so ago on ZDnet where analysts were saying that Apple should get out of the hardware business and focus on software. I'm not sure that's a good idea, but were they to move the OS to run on Intel and run on linux, they could conceivably do just that. Even just release the Intel version would help accomplish that. > > "but it will never match a straight kernel." > > I assume you mean Monolithic kernel like linux uses when you say 'straight > kernel.' The > way I understand it, the Monolithic kernel is an all-in-one controlling > kernel and the Mac > kernel breaks every system function into bits called "servers." Yes, I was fumbling for words a bit when I wrote that. I did mean monolithic. Yes, a monolithic kernel is an all in one kernel. Whereas, the Mach kernel is supposed to be a layered or a server based kernel which consists of a microkernel and then layers or servers on top of that. > > Can someone explain in more detail how Apple has accomplished both?? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by how Apple accomplishes both. > > "3).Their niche seems to be graphics as it always has been." > > How about Music production? Or the Biotech industry? There are plenty of > others... Yes, there's music production, Biotech is iffy at best. I was working for a company that made a DNA analysis application that was originally only for the mac. They too had gone to a Windows version and were actually looking at phasing out their Mac version because more and more biotech companies were running windows. Even the companies that make machines that read DNA were hooking them to macs and have switched to using windows. All, I'm saying is that Steve Jobs has said before that Apple would be in a niche market rather than trying to compete with MS. In fact, they sort of have to because MS invested some money in Apple a couple of years ago. They said at the time it was with no strings attached, but is that really true? I doubt it. > > "Until Adobe makes a version of photoshop to run under linux, there will be > a > need to run Mac." > > I don't think Adobe's software availability solely directs Apple's future. I > purchased an > Apple because I wanted something that would work right out of the box. And > continue to > work every time I use it. Time is money and for every hour I spend fiddling > with Linux > when I should be working is potential money being taken out of my pocket. Agreed, but again, Apple is staying in a niche market and while Photoshop wouldn't make or break Apple, were Adobe to say they will no longer pro
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:15:43 -0400 Carroll Grigsby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > Aren't most of the Hollywood high end graphics houses using Linux? Not > because it's cheaper, but because it's faster and more powerful. yep, a lot of the studios are using Linux clusters as "render farms" I think they call them. The days of SGI being the wizards are fading... -- + Joe Hill + Registered Linux user #282046 + Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net + ICQ# 279518458 + Do what thou wilt, this shall be the + whole of the law. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Wednesday 25 June 2003 12:53 am, LeaAnne Kolp wrote: > After reading a Mac users post regarding Linux vs Mac on the desktop, I'm > faced with > countless questions. > mega-snip > > Not knowing anything about this, I spoke with my boss, who has 20+ years in > video > production and editing experience. He said "Avid" machines are the defacto > standard, > and that the Mac isn't used. Furthermore, he said that the major Hollywood > studios use > equipment that the Mac just can't touch performance-wise. Aren't most of the Hollywood high end graphics houses using Linux? Not because it's cheaper, but because it's faster and more powerful. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:49:37 +0300 Robin Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > On the contrary, it said > that this growth in Linux would push MS's desktop market share below > 90%, implying that only a smalll proportion of this Linux growth would > > be at the expense of Apple. I missed that, thanks for pointing that out. Another case of info being important in terms of its context not just its content. -- + Joe Hill + Registered Linux user #282046 + Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net + ICQ# 279518458 + Do what thou wilt, this shall be the + whole of the law. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
After reading a Mac users post regarding Linux vs Mac on the desktop, I'm faced with countless questions. -- "1). I thought Linux had passed it already, but perhaps I'm confusing it with some other statistic." Please post a reference link. I'm not too sure on what metric you'd use to compare Linux vs. Mac on the desktop. Sales? Downloads? Registered Users? 2). OSX is based on the mach kernal, a modular derivitive created by CMU and as such is not necessarily linux, but very close. "Darwin uses a monolithic kernel based on FreeBSD 4.4 and the OSF/mk Mach 3, combining BSDs POSIX support with the fine-grained multithreading and real-time performance of Mach." ( ref: http://www.apple.com/macosx/technologies/darwin.html ) "Were Apple to be on the ball enough (and there's presedence to prove otherwise) they could very well capitalize on the linux movement by making their desktop envrionment run on linux installations and dropping the mach kernel." Apple is a hardware company. "but it will never match a straight kernel." I assume you mean Monolithic kernel like linux uses when you say 'straight kernel.' The way I understand it, the Monolithic kernel is an all-in-one controlling kernel and the Mac kernel breaks every system function into bits called "servers." Can someone explain in more detail how Apple has accomplished both?? "3).Their niche seems to be graphics as it always has been." How about Music production? Or the Biotech industry? There are plenty of others... "Until Adobe makes a version of photoshop to run under linux, there will be a need to run Mac." I don't think Adobe's software availability solely directs Apple's future. I purchased an Apple because I wanted something that would work right out of the box. And continue to work every time I use it. Time is money and for every hour I spend fiddling with Linux when I should be working is potential money being taken out of my pocket. "That and the video work that can be done quite easily on the Mac." Not knowing anything about this, I spoke with my boss, who has 20+ years in video production and editing experience. He said "Avid" machines are the defacto standard, and that the Mac isn't used. Furthermore, he said that the major Hollywood studios use equipment that the Mac just can't touch performance-wise. "Yes, I know there are programs that run under windows, but I haven't as of yet seen anything comparable on the Linux side. I'm sure someone will immediately point out just such a program, but until it gets to be well known, the Mac will still be the platform of choice for video and graphics." Very narrow minded view. 4). I saw the writing on the wall as it were over a year ago. Please explain. What writing on the wall? OS improvements? A full BSD based system with ease of use? Thats about as strange as saying you had a Ferrari and you saw that they were going to faster race-proven engines and that's why you jumped ship and bought a Ford Mustang. There's nothing wrong with either of them but to "jump ship" because one is improving is asanine. "That's part of the reason for jumping ship on Mac and trying my hand at Linux. Don't get me wrong," I don't understand. Please explain. -- LeaAnne Kolp ~Registerd Linux User: 288129 ~Homepage: http://cowgirlk.shorturl.com ~Orbiters: http://orbiters.funurl.com ~Windows Free for 4 Months > From: Thomas Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:48:51 -0400 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop? > > On Tuesday 24 June 2003 05:51 am, JoeHill wrote: >> >> http://slate.msn.com/id/2084727/ >> >> -- >> + Joe Hill >> + Registered Linux user #282046 >> + Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net >> + ICQ# 279518458 >> + Do what thou wilt, this shall be the >> + whole of the law. >> + Quote of the day from Slashdot: >> + "God forbid the FBI go after dangerous criminals ... >> + I feel much safer with pot smokers and warez >> + kiddies behind bars." >> >> > > Being a former Mac person myself. I have several thoughts on this. > > 1). I thought Linux had passed it already, but perhaps I'm confusing it with > some other statistic. > > 2). OSX is based on the mach kernal, a modular derivitive created by CMU and > as such is not necessarily linux, but very close. Were Apple to be on the > ball enough (and there's presedence to prove otherwise) they could very well > capitalize on the linux movement by making their desktop envrionment run on > linux installations and dropping the mach kernel.
RE: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
Why??? This will not hurt apple as much as you think.. The reason is that M$ make their money in the PC world just from the software.. so when people don't use it, it hurts them.. If people buy a mac, and put linux on it.. I can't see Apple being too upset about it.. since they got the money from the hardware anyway.. Mac users are a loyal lot.. I can't see many of them swapping to a intel/amd system with linux.. more likely they might dual boot their mac with linux.. so in light of that, I can't see apple losing market share because of linux.. And it might have another benefit as well.. if apple gets any pressure from this..they might start advertising that linux on a mac is the best linux.. which can only be a good thing.. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Wilson Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2003 7:10 AM To: JoeHill Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop? On June 24, 2003 12:13 pm, you did peer on the CN Tower and say: > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:11:13 -0700 > > John Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > In comparison with Forbes, the Business Week article is enligthening, > > fair and surprising neutral. And it feels good. > > LOL, yer good. ya, MS is pulling out all the stops, now the Mac people > will hate Linux! And why not? Everyone else hates Linux! :-) ttfn John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Tuesday 24 June 2003 09:18 pm, Phares wrote: > Except for the fact that the ML 9.1 install disk is > flawed and wont install on the newer powermacs, I hear > ya! > I was not aware of this. Is there any plans to fix this? I don't expect to be getting a new Mac any time soon, but it would be nice to know that when I do I can dual boot. Tom Williams Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
Except for the fact that the ML 9.1 install disk is flawed and wont install on the newer powermacs, I hear ya! -steven > In fact, these days if I could > afford it, I'd buy a G5 and > then make it dual boot with ML 9.1 PPC the other OS > on it. > Tom Williams __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Tuesday 24 June 2003 05:51 am, JoeHill wrote: > > http://slate.msn.com/id/2084727/ > > -- > + Joe Hill > + Registered Linux user #282046 > + Homepage: http://nodex.sytes.net > + ICQ# 279518458 > + Do what thou wilt, this shall be the > + whole of the law. > + Quote of the day from Slashdot: > + "God forbid the FBI go after dangerous criminals ... > + I feel much safer with pot smokers and warez > + kiddies behind bars." > > Being a former Mac person myself. I have several thoughts on this. 1). I thought Linux had passed it already, but perhaps I'm confusing it with some other statistic. 2). OSX is based on the mach kernal, a modular derivitive created by CMU and as such is not necessarily linux, but very close. Were Apple to be on the ball enough (and there's presedence to prove otherwise) they could very well capitalize on the linux movement by making their desktop envrionment run on linux installations and dropping the mach kernel. After all, even they admit that its a little slower running applications and for good reason. The mach kernel while very elegant has one flaw which makes it slower. That flaw is the very thing that makes it good, its modularity. It can be tweaked and tuned to the point where its close, but it will never match a straight kernel. 3). Apple never did intend to supplant MS. In fact, when Steve Jobs took over he even stated that their intention was NOT to go after MS. Rather it was to find their own niche. Their niche seems to be graphics as it always has been. Until Adobe makes a version of photoshop to run under linux, there will be a need to run Mac. That and the video work that can be done quite easily on the Mac. Yes, I know there are programs that run under windows, but I haven't as of yet seen anything comparable on the Linux side. I'm sure someone will immediately point out just such a program, but until it gets to be well known, the Mac will still be the platform of choice for video and graphics. 4). I saw the writing on the wall as it were over a year ago. That's part of the reason for jumping ship on Mac and trying my hand at Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mac still. If I could afford it I'd be one of those buying a brand new G5. In fact, these days if I could afford it, I'd buy a G5 and then make it dual boot with ML 9.1 PPC the other OS on it. That's just my view as a Mac person. Tom Williams Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 09:09, John Wilson wrote: > On June 24, 2003 12:13 pm, you did peer on the CN Tower and say: > > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:11:13 -0700 > > > > John Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > > In comparison with Forbes, the Business Week article is enligthening, > > > fair and surprising neutral. And it feels good. > > > > LOL, yer good. ya, MS is pulling out all the stops, now the Mac people > > will hate Linux! > > And why not? Everyone else hates Linux! :-) > > ttfn > > John Just remember that any OSX and Windows improvements you see are mostly due to linux... -- Wed Jun 25 09:40:01 EST 2003 09:40:01 up 9:26, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.08 - |____ |kuhn media australia| | /-oo /| |'-. |http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | || | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' |stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | - linux user #:267497 linux machine #:194239 * MDK 9.1 & RH 7.3 Mandrake Linux Kernel 2.4.21-11mdk Cooker for i586 - * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. -- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On June 24, 2003 12:13 pm, you did peer on the CN Tower and say: > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:11:13 -0700 > > John Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> uttered: > > In comparison with Forbes, the Business Week article is enligthening, > > fair and surprising neutral. And it feels good. > > LOL, yer good. ya, MS is pulling out all the stops, now the Mac people > will hate Linux! And why not? Everyone else hates Linux! :-) ttfn John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Linux passing the Mac on the Desktop?
On June 24, 2003 02:51 am, JoeHill did pontificate: > http://slate.msn.com/id/2084727/ Oh my! Travel on to the Business Week article that's linked to see it all in it's incredible horror! Actually, this is the sort of thing that we need in the middle of the FUD war surrounding SCO, or, what did User Friendly call it? "Software Criminal Organization?, and the crawling out from under various rocks of the "I told you so!" brigade pretending to be analyists. In comparison with Forbes, the Business Week article is enligthening, fair and surprising neutral. And it feels good. (Going off to find a Dust Puppy to hug) ttfn John Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
