Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:30:24 -0500, et [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 26 January 2003 12:51 pm, Kaj Haulrich wrote: On Sunday 26 January 2003 12:34 pm, et wrote: snip consider yopa. it is a new distro for th desktop, and while I have not yet had a chance to check it out, it comes highly recomended by folks I have learned to trust. On this list, I think it was YAMA, Sridhar Dhanapalani, that thought this was a good distro, and every other bit of advice he gave was right on the money. /snip et, I'm pretty sure the name is Yoper. BTW : where is Sridhar these days ? Miss him too. Kaj Haulrich === Powered by Linux- Mandrake 9.0 Registered Linux user # 214073 at http://counter.li.org Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. === yep, sorry about that... I see him on PClinuxonline more these days Hiya all, Sorry for not being around more often. I really love the Mandrake mailing lists, but nowadays most of my time is taken up by PCLinuxOnline and other concerns. I'm still on the list, however, and I try to read it as much as I can. I personally haven't tried Yoper, but I have read a lot of good things about it. I think it would be worth a shot if you would like a change of scenery. I myself am a huge fan of Mandrake and Gentoo, with Debian being a good fallback. I tried installing Xandros (a desktop-oriented Debian-based distro), but it refused to boot on my machine. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan [Yama | http://www.pclinuxonline.com/] I don't think it's right and I think it causes people to make decisions which are not even in their best interest. A, we're not evil. B, we're not an empire. -- Steve Ballmer, objecting to Microsoft being called The Evil Empire Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
On Tuesday 28 January 2003 02:28 am, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:30:24 -0500, et [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 26 January 2003 12:51 pm, Kaj Haulrich wrote: On Sunday 26 January 2003 12:34 pm, et wrote: snip consider yopa. it is a new distro for th desktop, and while I have not yet had a chance to check it out, it comes highly recomended by folks I have learned to trust. On this list, I think it was YAMA, Sridhar Dhanapalani, that thought this was a good distro, and every other bit of advice he gave was right on the money. /snip et, I'm pretty sure the name is Yoper. BTW : where is Sridhar these days ? Miss him too. Kaj Haulrich === Powered by Linux- Mandrake 9.0 Registered Linux user # 214073 at http://counter.li.org Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. === yep, sorry about that... I see him on PClinuxonline more these days Hiya all, Sorry for not being around more often. I really love the Mandrake mailing lists, but nowadays most of my time is taken up by PCLinuxOnline and other concerns. I'm still on the list, however, and I try to read it as much as I can. I personally haven't tried Yoper, but I have read a lot of good things about it. I think it would be worth a shot if you would like a change of scenery. I myself am a huge fan of Mandrake and Gentoo, with Debian being a good fallback. I tried installing Xandros (a desktop-oriented Debian-based distro), but it refused to boot on my machine. I guess we all have READ about it and it sounds good... now if anyone can tear themselves away from the latest Mandrake Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
just so you know, virtual memory means different things to differnet people and different OSs, so if you are reading about cpu registers and mem pages, that is one thing, but the way M$ products handle memory is so different from other OSs and in some books the wording looks as if the M$ way of looking at memory is _the_ way. On Monday 27 January 2003 07:30 pm, Graham Pohle wrote: I will persist in acquiring the knowledge needed to operate this OS, but because there is a massive amount of reading to do before I can even begin to think I can operate this OS, let alone understand it, I'll be only dropping in like this from time to time to let you know that I'm still persisting with the learning curve. The workings of a computer are not as complex as I thought they were, it's just when you start adding software and various programs that it becomes complicated. So like I said, I'll be keeping in touch and if I do strike a problem that I cannot work out, I'll definitely come to this message board to ask the HOW TO on the What to do. I'm into virtual memory at the moment and it's impact on the various PC systems, ie; 386,486,and even the old 286. I even did a study peice on the old mainframe PCs where 36bits were in style. Anyway, I'm going to be a hell of programer when I finally get to know what I'm doing. See you soon. Graham Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
et wrote: just so you know, virtual memory means different things to differnet people and different OSs, so if you are reading about cpu registers and mem pages, that is one thing, but the way M$ products handle memory is so different from other OSs and in some books the wording looks as if the M$ way of looking at memory is _the_ way. On the subject of memory, would converting a Celeron box to Linux bypass the problem that Celeron chips in Windows canonly utilise a certain amount of memory? We have a Celeron with 32MB of RAM, and have been told there is no point in adding RAM because the chip wouldn't be able to access it. Sir Robin -- A Perl script is correct if it gets the job done before your boss fires you. - Larry Wall Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
I sure never heard of such a problem with celerys... my understanding was the MoBo chipset and bios was where the max mem was reached... what kinda box is that? tell me more.. I don't buy such small mem with a celery the only thing like that I know about is that celerys can't be smp, but I never had a problem.. I have a few celerys (a 366, a 500, and a 1200Mhz, none overclocked, all have some form of linux (2 mdk9.0, 1 rh 8.0, all just to play around) as well as dual booting into M$ as required/requested (1 ME, 2 win2k) all with 512 meg mem. Winme and 9x won't boot with more than 512 megs mem. On Monday 27 January 2003 10:27 am, robin wrote: et wrote: just so you know, virtual memory means different things to differnet people and different OSs, so if you are reading about cpu registers and mem pages, that is one thing, but the way M$ products handle memory is so different from other OSs and in some books the wording looks as if the M$ way of looking at memory is _the_ way. On the subject of memory, would converting a Celeron box to Linux bypass the problem that Celeron chips in Windows canonly utilise a certain amount of memory? We have a Celeron with 32MB of RAM, and have been told there is no point in adding RAM because the chip wouldn't be able to access it. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
On Monday 27 January 2003 06:27 am, robin wrote: et wrote: just so you know, virtual memory means different things to differnet people and different OSs, so if you are reading about cpu registers and mem pages, that is one thing, but the way M$ products handle memory is so different from other OSs and in some books the wording looks as if the M$ way of looking at memory is _the_ way. On the subject of memory, would converting a Celeron box to Linux bypass the problem that Celeron chips in Windows canonly utilise a certain amount of memory? We have a Celeron with 32MB of RAM, and have been told there is no point in adding RAM because the chip wouldn't be able to access it. Sir Robin ROFLMAO Ummm, as far as I know, some MOTHERBOARDS have limits on memory, but it is not bound to the processor used. The Motherboards that support Celeron all support at least 128M, unless you are using a celeron-driven control device (why would that not surprise me?) like unto the SIMM and DIMM devices of Arcturus. Anyway, linux handles memory so differently from Windows that indeed the 512Mb limit of 95 and 98 is easily breached, and linux tends to run faster the more memory you add up to 1 Gb, at least. After that, the memory model supported gets a little more taxing in overhead, but once past that, the speed again tends to increase with additional memory. But I would like to meet the person who told you it was pointless to go beyond 32Mb with a Celeron. I know someone who has this bridge for sale, you see, and he could make a BUNDLE with toll booths on it Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
- Original Message - From: et [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics I sure never heard of such a problem with celerys... my understanding was the MoBo chipset and bios was where the max mem was reached... what kinda box is that? tell me more.. yup, it depends on mobo chipset and its bios, please verify at the mobo's manual book about max amount of memory it can hold Ikuti polling TELKOM Memo 166 di www.plasa.com dan menangkan hadiah masing-masing Rp 250.000 tunai Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
On Monday 27 January 2003 08:27 am, robin wrote: et wrote: just so you know, virtual memory means different things to differnet people and different OSs, so if you are reading about cpu registers and mem pages, that is one thing, but the way M$ products handle memory is so different from other OSs and in some books the wording looks as if the M$ way of looking at memory is _the_ way. On the subject of memory, would converting a Celeron box to Linux bypass the problem that Celeron chips in Windows canonly utilise a certain amount of memory? We have a Celeron with 32MB of RAM, and have been told there is no point in adding RAM because the chip wouldn't be able to access it. Sir Robin Say WHAT? My neighbor's old Celeron 366 MHZ box that his son uses had 64 MB of RAM when he bought it back in '98. It now runs 192 MB since I had a spare 128 MB stick of PC 100 lying around here. I plugged it in when I was there to set up their internet connection sharing. BTW 192 MB seems to be the sweet spot for Windows 98 SE. If there is such a thing. Both boxes dual boot Mandrake with Windows. The aforementioned 98 SE on one, XP Pro on the other. The question isn't how much memory will the processor utilize, it's how much have you got, and how much will the motherboard's chipset address. My old reliable BX6 Rev2 (ABit) was once able to use all 4 memory slots (256 MB each max) but seems not to like using more than two now. It's old. Other things lead me to believe that a re-flash of the BIOS may correct this problem but I won't until I can gather the components to build a new box to my liking. As long as the board manufacturer has certified that the board will use xxx amount of RAM the processor will use whatever that maximum is usually. The OS on the other hand I'd check the MB's manufacturer for information before I believe that kind of statement Robin. Regards; -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 http://counter.li.org Schshschshchsch. -- The Gorn, Arena, stardate 3046.2 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 02:27, robin wrote: On the subject of memory, would converting a Celeron box to Linux bypass the problem that Celeron chips in Windows canonly utilise a certain amount of memory? We have a Celeron with 32MB of RAM, and have been told there is no point in adding RAM because the chip wouldn't be able to access it. Sir Robin That's complete rubbish. This production box here is a Celery 1200mhz w/ 512mb of RAM running linux. I've installed Slackware, RedHat, Mandrake, Gentoo, Knoppix - aside from BeOS, OS/2, Win95/98/ME/2k/XP, and SCO x86. I'm more than certainly seeing more than 32mb of RAM... Under Windows, it WORKED quite well - that is, under a normal installation of Windows - which is all gone now - but even virtually using VMWare...nary a prob... -- Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:35:00 +1100 6:35am up 20:24, 5 users, load average: 2.35, 0.87, 0.51 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * RH 8.0 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- Even the best of friends cannot attend each other's funeral. -- Kehlog Albran, The Profit Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
civileme wrote: On Monday 27 January 2003 06:27 am, robin wrote: On the subject of memory, would converting a Celeron box to Linux bypass the problem that Celeron chips in Windows canonly utilise a certain amount of memory? We have a Celeron with 32MB of RAM, and have been told there is no point in adding RAM because the chip wouldn't be able to access it. ROFLMAO Ummm, as far as I know, some MOTHERBOARDS have limits on memory, but it is not bound to the processor used. The Motherboards that support Celeron all support at least 128M, unless you are using a celeron-driven control device (why would that not surprise me?) like unto the SIMM and DIMM devices of Arcturus. Anyway, linux handles memory so differently from Windows that indeed the 512Mb limit of 95 and 98 is easily breached, and linux tends to run faster the more memory you add up to 1 Gb, at least. After that, the memory model supported gets a little more taxing in overhead, but once past that, the speed again tends to increase with additional memory. But I would like to meet the person who told you it was pointless to go beyond 32Mb with a Celeron. I know someone who has this bridge for sale, you see, and he could make a BUNDLE with toll booths on it Thanks, Civileme - that was the answer I was hoping for and more-or-less expected. I have included it in a post to our person-with-the-purse-strings. Depending on whether we can get any new computers in our office, this will either be one for teachers to use, or (best-case scenario) will stay in our tutorial area for students to use, in which case I have permission to install Linux on it for security reasons. I've learnt from Microsoft that FUD is a good tactic, and I told our new head of department in no uncertain terms that having students putting their floppy disks into one of our LAN-connected boxes is asking for trouble. The difference, of course, is that my fear, uncertainty and doubt is backed up by solid facts - allow Joe Student to put an infected disk into your Windows machine and Network Neighborhood will do the rest. Sir Robin -- Like these cutters, and hackers, who will take the wall of men, and picke quarrells. - G. Pettie Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
I think asking questions here is about the best way to learn what ever you don't know about computers and OSs, no question too dumb to be answered by more questions. I would stay right here, and if one day we disappear (heaven forbid) instead of debian or RH (they seem, to me anyway, to be not as tolerant of neophytes as we are here) consider yopa. it is a new distro for th desktop, and while I have not yet had a chance to check it out, it comes highly recomended by folks I have learned to trust. On this list, I think it was YAMA, Sridhar Dhanapalani, that thought this was a good distro, and every other bit of advice he gave was right on the money. On Sunday 26 January 2003 06:18 pm, Graham Pohle wrote: After beating my head against a brick wall for quite some time now, I've realised that I have to go back to basics to fully understand the concepts and mechanics of the Computer and how the various Operating Systems communicate with the hardware and then I might be able to learn the various languages programs that control the processes that I'm trying to understand. I've always been a person that wants the quick fix, I wanted to operate this linux OS straight away, but it just doesn't happen like that. To fully understand linux or any operating system for that matter, I believe that you have to understand how the Computer in it's entirety works. I didn't even know that for any program to run, it first has to be in the systems memory and I'm learning lots of new stuff every day. Some of it is really boring, but I think I'm going to be better off in the long run instead of trying to take the quick way or short cut around things. If this is going to close down, I'll be around on some other linux board,but by then I'll probably have a handle.(Maybe) PS. Contemplating a move to debian...any comments? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
Well I did the same but came back to the rpm way. The problem is that everything is in a different place, has a different name, there is way to much to learn before doing the simplest thing. I also found that the debian community had a different mind set... And the clincher is that hardware isn't always auto installed. I had lots of usb troubles etc. However the deb package rocks. I was just spending way to much time fiddling with the os and very little time getting anything useful done. Aaron PS. Contemplating a move to debian...any comments? __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
On Sunday 26 January 2003 12:51 pm, Kaj Haulrich wrote: On Sunday 26 January 2003 12:34 pm, et wrote: snip consider yopa. it is a new distro for th desktop, and while I have not yet had a chance to check it out, it comes highly recomended by folks I have learned to trust. On this list, I think it was YAMA, Sridhar Dhanapalani, that thought this was a good distro, and every other bit of advice he gave was right on the money. /snip et, I'm pretty sure the name is Yoper. BTW : where is Sridhar these days ? Miss him too. Kaj Haulrich === Powered by Linux- Mandrake 9.0 Registered Linux user # 214073 at http://counter.li.org Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. === yep, sorry about that... I see him on PClinuxonline more these days Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Re:Back to Basics
Wow. I just went to yoper and if what I read is true I will be switching to it as soon as the first release is out. Aaron On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 12:51, Kaj Haulrich wrote: On Sunday 26 January 2003 12:34 pm, et wrote: snip consider yopa. it is a new distro for th desktop, and while I have not yet had a chance to check it out, it comes highly recomended by folks I have learned to trust. On this list, I think it was YAMA, Sridhar Dhanapalani, that thought this was a good distro, and every other bit of advice he gave was right on the money. /snip et, I'm pretty sure the name is Yoper. BTW : where is Sridhar these days ? Miss him too. Kaj Haulrich === Powered by Linux- Mandrake 9.0 Registered Linux user # 214073 at http://counter.li.org Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. === __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
