Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
On Thu, 2002-04-11 at 14:56, Jussi Aalto wrote: I have experienced a couple of TOTAL lockups too and survived them even though had to do master reset. I waited for a while before resetting hoping that the system wasn't too busy so it could write some of the buffers back to disk (if it makes any difference, I'm not sure, someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'm glad to see that someone else is getting the same experience that I have been with ext3. :) And btw, this is off the topic, but this system really makes my XP buddies look like they are in the dark ages. They are still getting blue screens, filesystem blowouts, and loads of viruses. I had an XP bud over here the other day, and I played Diablo2 for a long time under LM81 with no crashes. Ran smoother with no snags, too. He and his suitemates can't say that; in fact he eventually turned green and asked me to quit the demo. ;) In fact I have a 98 system here that was just installed fresh; it's had the registry cleaned, debugged, and it was a 98Lite installation. With all that clean, I could play at best for three hours at the most, before some kind of invisible memory leak stops or crashes the system. By comparison, D2Lod has NEVER (knock on wood) crashed on this LM81 system. Combine that with the amount of time that ext3 has saved in filesystem maintenance as compared to 98 or XP, and you've got a very, very substantial time savings. The productivity power of a properly installed Linux system and ext3 is incomparable. Filesystem is ext3 and has worked nicely. After reset the system just checked the disk(s) and fixed whatever had to be fixed and up he(she?) was again. It may be that something got lost but the important thing for me is that the system is up and running and if errors occur I could try to fix them. Anyway, what I tried to say was that if the keyb and mouse die, it doesn't always mean that the whole system is dead. So next time when the system freezes, spend few minutes doing something else and after that you can play with the R-button. I read shane's treatise on raw modeing the keyboard and doing the buffer flushes. What I think there is that if you have a system that you are experimenting with and is not performing important functions and storing any kind of data, then that's cool. But if it's a production system that needs to be coming back after a crash, and then the filesystem requires a raw keyboard and buffer flushes in order to better your odds, and given the fact that the FS is supposed to be protecting data in the first place, then that is unacceptable. A journaling FS's purpose is to recover from a crash. Now about the filesystems, what I've been reading is that Reiser and XFS are at their best in servers and since the writer of that article knows Linux a lot better than me, I believe him and stick to ext3. IDKITHABSIA Cheers, J. Thanks for the post, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.8-26mdk Mandrake Linux 8.1 Enlightenment 0.16.5Evolution 1.02 Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
On Saturday 13 April 2002 01:45, Lyvim Xaphir opened a general hailing frequency and transmitted to all open stations: I read shane's treatise on raw modeing the keyboard and doing the buffer flushes. What I think there is that if you have a system that you are experimenting with and is not performing important functions and storing any kind of data, then that's cool. But if it's a production system that needs to be coming back after a crash, and then the filesystem requires a raw keyboard and buffer flushes in order to better your odds, and given the fact that the FS is supposed to be protecting data in the first place, then that is unacceptable. A journaling FS's purpose is to recover from a crash. very much in agreement, i only post it cause it worked for me the 2 times i have crashed.. i have to say, been running since 7.1 and i have less crashes in linux _ever_ than i had per week in windows. in fact i am upset today cause it was looked this morning, and i don't know why. that makes twice in 6 weeks! baack when i was in windows all day twice in a 24 hour period was a celebration day.. -- Going from DOS to Linux is like trading a glider for an F117. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:34:42 +0300 Jussi Aalto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK guys, this is not funny, where the heck do you find these last resorts?? This has obviously something to do with secret handshakes etc. Which man pages do I have to memorize and cat-when-asked to get inside? file:/usr/share/doc/mandrake/en/ref.html/ts-system-freeze.html But seriously, IIRC the SysRq works only if it's compiled into kernel. Is it compiled on install-and-enjoy kernels? [frans@amd frans]$ less /usr/src/linux-2.4.18-6mdk/.config | grep MAGIC_SYSRQ CONFIG_MAGIC_SYSRQ=y [frans@amd frans]$ Damn, and Cheers, J. -- If you stick a stock of liquor in your locker, It is slick to stick a lock upon your stock. Or some joker who is slicker, Will trick you of your liquor, If you fail to lock your liquor with a lock. On Thursday 11 April 2002 22:33, shane wrote: did you try the last resort Alt + SysRq + r Alt + SysRq + s Alt + SysRq + e Alt + SysRq + i Alt + SysRq + u Alt + SysRq + b From the documentation mentioned above: Mnemonic phrase: Raising Skinny Elephants Is Utterly Boring -Frans Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
Hi On Thursday 11 April 2002 05:25, Femme wrote: I had some problems with X. It crashed, hard. Mouse/keyboard, evertying stopped working. Somehow, through a miracle I think, I got it to reboot by hitting teh reset button or just banging keys. Needless to say, I lost all the mail I'd d/led today. I also lost some small bookmarks *No biggy there*. The mail is what I was ticked about. I couldn't figure out a way to save it. I am using Sylpheed. any ideas to avoid this unfortunate situation in the future? I have experienced a couple of TOTAL lockups too and survived them even though had to do master reset. I waited for a while before resetting hoping that the system wasn't too busy so it could write some of the buffers back to disk (if it makes any difference, I'm not sure, someone correct me if I'm wrong). Filesystem is ext3 and has worked nicely. After reset the system just checked the disk(s) and fixed whatever had to be fixed and up he(she?) was again. It may be that something got lost but the important thing for me is that the system is up and running and if errors occur I could try to fix them. Anyway, what I tried to say was that if the keyb and mouse die, it doesn't always mean that the whole system is dead. So next time when the system freezes, spend few minutes doing something else and after that you can play with the R-button. Now about the filesystems, what I've been reading is that Reiser and XFS are at their best in servers and since the writer of that article knows Linux a lot better than me, I believe him and stick to ext3. IDKITHABSIA Cheers, J. I am at a loss as to how to avoid/fix this in the future if this happens. And why reiser failed. Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
On Thursday 11 April 2002 11:56, Jussi Aalto opened a general hailing
frequency and transmitted to all open stations:
I have experienced a couple of TOTAL lockups too and survived them even
though had to do master reset. I waited for a while before resetting
hoping that the system wasn't too busy so it could write some of the
buffers back to disk (if it makes any difference, I'm not sure, someone
correct me if I'm wrong).
did you try the last resort
Alt + SysRq + r
Alt + SysRq + s
Alt + SysRq + e
Alt + SysRq + i
Alt + SysRq + u
Alt + SysRq + b
before rebooting? that saved me once when i locked as after the first
command the x restart worked, everything clear. a second freeze on another
machine this seemed to help, but i am not certain. there was no data lost
anyway.
so you know:
Alt + SysRq + r puts the keyboard in 'raw' mode. Sometimes after only
this command you can try to kill the X server and all is well, if not,
press on.
Alt + SysRq + s attempts to write all unsaved data to disk ('sync' the
disk) to prevent file corruption.
Alt + SysRq + e sends a termination signal to all processes, that is
the same as killing every program running.
Alt + SysRq + i sends a kill signal to all processes. If any processes
are still running after the last key command this will clean the up.
Alt + SysRq + u remounts all systems in read-only mode. This is to
prevent file system corruption.
Alt + SysRq + b reboots the system.
or at least that is what i am told.
--
... and if you drown, die knowing you were headed for the shore. -from
farenheight 451
shane
Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html
Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98
Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/
Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
Jussi Aalto wrote: Now about the filesystems, what I've been reading is that Reiser and XFS are at their best in servers and since the writer of that article knows Linux a lot better than me, I believe him and stick to ext3. IDKITHABSIA Cheers, J. Thx J. I'm considering EXT3, even though Civilme's opinion wasn't that high of it, IIRC. Merci love Femme -- Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Thursday 11 April 2002 03:42 am, you wrote: Well I'm officially very ticked off. I had some problems with X. It crashed, hard. Mouse/keyboard, evertying stopped working. Somehow, through a miracle I think, I got it to reboot by hitting teh reset button or just banging keys. Needless to say, I lost all the mail I'd d/led today. I also lost some small bookmarks *No biggy there*. The mail is what I was ticked about. I couldn't figure out a way to save it. I am using Sylpheed. When I rebooted, I got fails on a lot of Modules that tried to load. Like DevFs=Fail! this was my first clue my install didn't survive. Now, knowing Reiser is supposed to stop corruption of an FS, why did it fail this time? Is it me or something else? any ideas to avoid this unfortunate situation in the future? I did try to get to a term by ctrl-alt-Fx. No joy. So...couldn't shutdown gracefully. *sigh* I tried the rescue option. Ya that didn't work. I tried the reinstall but don't format /home. I have only 3 partitions *root (/), swap, home* and have yet to figure out how to divide up more get it to work properly. *Thats a diff issue*. However, on reboot I got teh same fails. Plus! Kde couldn't write/execute the .ICEauthority file. :\ I tried the chmod method of giving global access... another file needed it. At that point it seemed easier to just reinstall all save my nvidia drivers I'd downloaded instead. *sigh* Help? Pls? I am at a loss as to how to avoid/fix this in the future if this happens. And why reiser failed. Femme Ok. Well, I'm going to step out here at the risk of sounding like a broken record. First, this filesystem thing is kind of like religion, it's easy to spark off a debate. All I can do is point out what I have observed on this and the expert list; and I've seen peeps with problems both in XFS and Reiser...not just you, either. On the other hand (and Civ you correct me if I'm in error) I have yet to hear of an ext3 system that went down with corruption. Of course that does not mean there hasn't been one. I can just assure you mine has not been one of those. (KNOCK ON WOOD) IF you are not experimenting and IF you are not testing the relative performance levels of the various filesystems, my personal and Official Wooden Nickel Recommendation (OWNR, tm) is to use ext3 journaling as installed by default. This is new stuff; and until the buggies get worked out, I'd take the safe road, the one where there's no bandits hiding in the directory trees out in the file forest along the way. No sense trying to be an icecutter ship when you're in a fiberglass boat. The primary concern I had when installing was integrity of data. I moved everything I had over to this system. And that's alot of stuff. I've got backups but they are usually five days old at least. If this rig crashes I'm SOL. So I copied red hat's recommendations and have been watching carefully other folk's experiences. So that's my best approach to your question about avoid/fixing it in the future. Sorry I can't be much help; wish I had a magic Reiser Wand I could wave to get your data back. :( Till next time, LX Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Actually, there are reports of ext3/NFS corruption, but it may be broken clock chips causing it, and also some corruption copying from CD to ext3, which could also be bad clocks under UDMA operations at elevated speeds, with spurious clock interrupts playing hell with direct memory access. Frankly, use ext2 for home use, unless you carry HUGE partitions. The recovery from a journaling filesystem is faster, but the operation is usually slower, and the security is _no_ greater. ext2 is extraordinarily well-designed and the one area of weakness is 4 hours to check a _full_ 50G partition in a worst-case scenario, but its check/rebuild is no more likely to lose data than any other. Now on Reiser, use the rescue CD to boot, modprobe the reiser stuff then try reiserfsck ... reiserfsck --rebuild-tree To do a complete fix if journal playback doesn't do it. One thing I have noticed with Reiser back in 8.0 was that an error in the tree will fail to be detected by journal playback and will show up only subtly, like missing libraries on a compile which nevertheless show up with ldconfig -v. Because this behavior is a serious failure--failure to detect a problem, I stopped recommendeing Reiser, and I have seen insufficient evidence to begin recommending it again. Using scripts people showed me with mixed IDE and SCSI drives on their systems, I was able to reproduce corruption on XFS for 8.1. Using the same scripts on 8.2, I can no longer reproduce it. JFS I was able to crash shortly before the 8.1 release. Repeated resets seemed to take it out even for a new version, but again the
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
civileme wrote: Now on Reiser, use the rescue CD to boot, modprobe the reiser stuff then try what do you mean by modprobe the reiser stuff??? Can someone enlighten me here? reiserfsck ... reiserfsck --rebuild-tree To do a complete fix if journal playback doesn't do it. So ext2--solid ext3-semi-solid XFS-improved, need more evidence JFS-looking awfully good, but needs defrag and needs more experience Reiser-A very complex system, at least one level of abstraction and code above the others, and will be great if ever it works fully. ALL--An unexpected down can wreak havoc on a disk or on a filesystem. ALL-- When things look bad, try alt-sysrq-s alt-sysrq-a alt-sysrq-b to flush the buffers before reaching for a reset switch... If it doesn't work, you have lost no more than you would lose, and it if does work, you will minimize your losses. ALL--Data not backed up is data lost. End of story. Civileme Well to be honest I didn't know how to back up mail. Tim Holmes *bless his kind soul* helped me create a Cron script to do so...for future. Its the only thing I do keep on there I want!;p Thx Civilme. Useful info as usual. And as an aside, I liked reiser for its speed. Ext2 seems turtlish in comparison. Haven't tried it in 8.2. Is it diff/faster now? Thx Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
shane wrote:
On Thursday 11 April 2002 11:56, Jussi Aalto opened a general hailing
frequency and transmitted to all open stations:
I have experienced a couple of TOTAL lockups too and survived them even
though had to do master reset. I waited for a while before resetting
hoping that the system wasn't too busy so it could write some of the
buffers back to disk (if it makes any difference, I'm not sure, someone
correct me if I'm wrong).
did you try the last resort
Alt + SysRq + r
Alt + SysRq + s
Alt + SysRq + e
Alt + SysRq + i
Alt + SysRq + u
Alt + SysRq + b
before rebooting? that saved me once when i locked as after the first
command the x restart worked, everything clear. a second freeze on another
machine this seemed to help, but i am not certain. there was no data lost
anyway.
so you know:
Alt + SysRq + r puts the keyboard in 'raw' mode. Sometimes after only
this command you can try to kill the X server and all is well, if not,
press on.
Alt + SysRq + s attempts to write all unsaved data to disk ('sync' the
disk) to prevent file corruption.
Alt + SysRq + e sends a termination signal to all processes, that is
the same as killing every program running.
Alt + SysRq + i sends a kill signal to all processes. If any processes
are still running after the last key command this will clean the up.
Alt + SysRq + u remounts all systems in read-only mode. This is to
prevent file system corruption.
Alt + SysRq + b reboots the system.
or at least that is what i am told.
--
... and if you drown, die knowing you were headed for the shore. -from
farenheight 451
shane
wow... shane, i'm duly impressed with your knowledge today ;p
I think linux is the only OS I know of to use that stupid key! AFAIK,
IBM made it, and it never got used! It became a useless Key! ;p
THX!
I will try it and let you know the results. I'm seriously tempted to
load a ext3 on a diff partition on the same drive. Just run it hit
the reset button for kicks, see what happens. ;p
Mucho Gracias ;p
Femme
--
Good Decisions You boss Made:
We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that
character from Peanuts.
- Source: Dilbert
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Reiser Question
Well I'm officially very ticked off. I had some problems with X. It crashed, hard. Mouse/keyboard, evertying stopped working. Somehow, through a miracle I think, I got it to reboot by hitting teh reset button or just banging keys. Needless to say, I lost all the mail I'd d/led today. I also lost some small bookmarks *No biggy there*. The mail is what I was ticked about. I couldn't figure out a way to save it. I am using Sylpheed. When I rebooted, I got fails on a lot of Modules that tried to load. Like DevFs=Fail! this was my first clue my install didn't survive. Now, knowing Reiser is supposed to stop corruption of an FS, why did it fail this time? Is it me or something else? any ideas to avoid this unfortunate situation in the future? I did try to get to a term by ctrl-alt-Fx. No joy. So...couldn't shutdown gracefully. *sigh* I tried the rescue option. Ya that didn't work. I tried the reinstall but don't format /home. I have only 3 partitions *root (/), swap, home* and have yet to figure out how to divide up more get it to work properly. *Thats a diff issue*. However, on reboot I got teh same fails. Plus! Kde couldn't write/execute the .ICEauthority file. :\ I tried the chmod method of giving global access... another file needed it. At that point it seemed easier to just reinstall all save my nvidia drivers I'd downloaded instead. *sigh* Help? Pls? I am at a loss as to how to avoid/fix this in the future if this happens. And why reiser failed. Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
