Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
And if things did not change, debian is the only distro that can support the GNU's kernel, hurd. Onur Kucuk _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Yes RH is GPL, so is SuSE but you can not dowload a fully functional ISO of it. Being GPL has nothing to do with the basics action that RH leads one to beleive you must take once you have have installed RH. Read the following from the RH site: Get the most out of your Red Hat systems. Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released. Because Red Hat Network keeps track of when Errata Updates are released and sends you email notifications, it can: Reduce the time and effort required by system administrators to stay on top of the Red Hat errata list Minimize security vulnerabilities in your network by providing the patches as soon as Red Hat releases them Filter out package updates not relevant to your network Schedule Errata Updates so that packages are delivered to selected systems when you want it To start using Red Hat Network today, follow these steps: Create a System Profile by registering your system with Red Hat Network. Just run the command rhn_register on the system. Log in to Red Hat Network and entitle the system to all the Software Manager benefits. Start scheduling updates. If you need help with these steps, refer to the Red Hat Network User Reference Guide. If you are a current Red Hat Network customer, please read The New RHN to learn what has changed and what features have been added. When you register and entitle your system, a profile for that system is created. If you wish to install on another or even change systems and still access the RHN you must first unentitle the original system and then register and entitle the second system. If you should wish to use the RHN on more then 1 system you must purchase additional subscribtions at $19.95 per month per machine. Sure, you can get around this by listing all updates applied to one system and then manually updating on any others that you might have. But how many users would even think of this much less do it. There is nothing wrong with RH doing this, linux distros if they are to stay viable must find means of generating revenue beyond that aquired through the sale of box sets of the OS. Is this exactly the same practice that is being used by MS with WP? No. But the basic priciple behind the approch both are taking is the same, 1 copy of the OS on one system. You may well have a differing view, that is why we each are individuals and each has the 'right' to hold and express their own views. But, as to me personally, I can equate no difference between MS's policies in regards to XP and those being currently employeed by RH. Charles Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:06:35 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Yes RH is GPL, so is SuSE but you can not dowload a fully functional ISO of it. Being GPL has nothing to do with the basics action that RH leads one to beleive you must take once you have have installed RH. Read the following from the RH site: Get the most out of your Red Hat systems. Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released. Because Red Hat Network keeps track of when Errata Updates are released and sends you email notifications, it can: Reduce the time and effort required by system administrators to stay on top of the Red Hat errata list Minimize security vulnerabilities in your network by providing the patches as soon as Red Hat releases them Filter out package updates not relevant to your network Schedule Errata Updates so that packages are delivered to selected systems when you want it To start using Red Hat Network today, follow these steps: Create a System Profile by registering your system with Red Hat Network. Just run the command rhn_register on the system. Log in to Red Hat Network and entitle the system to all the Software Manager benefits. Start scheduling updates. If you need help with these steps, refer to the Red Hat Network User Reference Guide. If you are a current Red Hat Network customer, please read The New RHN to learn what has changed and what features have been added. When you register and entitle your system, a profile for that system is created. If you wish to install on another or even change systems and still access the RHN you must first unentitle the original system and then register and entitle the second system. If you should wish to use the RHN on more then 1 system you must purchase additional subscribtions at $19.95 per month per machine. Sure, you can get around this by listing all updates applied to one system and then manually updating on any others that you might have. But how many users would even think of this much less do it. There is nothing wrong with RH doing this, linux distros if they are to stay viable must find means of generating revenue beyond that aquired through the sale of box sets of the OS. Is this exactly the same practice that is being used by MS with WP? No. But the basic priciple behind the approch both are taking is the same, 1 copy of the OS on one system. You may well have a differing view, that is why we each are individuals and each has the 'right' to hold and express their own views. But, as to me personally, I can equate no difference between MS's policies in regards to XP and those being currently employeed by RH. Charles I think these things are _very_ different. The Red Hat Network is completely voluntary, and there is no constant nagging to join it as there is in XP to join Passport. Also, the information collected by RHN is limited to basic identification and contact details, along with system configuration information. This is merely to customise updates and notification of those updates for the consumer. RHN doesn't ask for your credit card numbers or all your passports, nor does it try to channel you to specific web sites so that you are less likely to visit competing sites. In fact, RHN is not very different from MandrakeOnline. If you have a problem with RHN, then you have a problem with customised web services in general. Services are the only way that companies like Mandrake and Red Hat can make significant amounts of money, since they are losing money on their distributions. There is nothing wrong with web services, provided that they are carried out in an ethical manner. RHN and MandrakeOnline only collect the information they need to do a specific task. They don't try to cover everything from e-mail to e-commerce, and they don't subvert the user's Internet experience like XP. They also clearly spell out what they are doing, and they don't try to press-gang the user into joining. They are also GPL, so there is no chance of
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
On Thursday 01 November 2001 14:06 pm, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Yes RH is GPL, so is SuSE but you can not dowload a fully functional ISO of it. Being GPL has nothing to do with the basics action that RH leads one to beleive you must take once you have have installed RH. Read the following from the RH site: Get the most out of your Red Hat systems. Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released. Because Red Hat Network keeps track of when Errata Updates are released and sends you email notifications, it can: Reduce the time and effort required by system administrators to stay on top of the Red Hat errata list Minimize security vulnerabilities in your network by providing the patches as soon as Red Hat releases them Filter out package updates not relevant to your network Schedule Errata Updates so that packages are delivered to selected systems when you want it To start using Red Hat Network today, follow these steps: Create a System Profile by registering your system with Red Hat Network. Just run the command rhn_register on the system. Log in to Red Hat Network and entitle the system to all the Software Manager benefits. Start scheduling updates. If you need help with these steps, refer to the Red Hat Network User Reference Guide. If you are a current Red Hat Network customer, please read The New RHN to learn what has changed and what features have been added. When you register and entitle your system, a profile for that system is created. If you wish to install on another or even change systems and still access the RHN you must first unentitle the original system and then register and entitle the second system. If you should wish to use the RHN on more then 1 system you must purchase additional subscribtions at $19.95 per month per machine. Sure, you can get around this by listing all updates applied to one system and then manually updating on any others that you might have. But how many users would even think of this much less do it. There is nothing wrong with RH doing this, linux distros if they are to stay viable must find means of generating revenue beyond that aquired through the sale of box sets of the OS. Is this exactly the same practice that is being used by MS with WP? No. But the basic priciple behind the approch both are taking is the same, 1 copy of the OS on one system. You may well have a differing view, that is why we each are individuals and each has the 'right' to hold and express their own views. But, as to me personally, I can equate no difference between MS's policies in regards to XP and those being currently employeed by RH. Charles I think that you're missing the point here. Red Hat Network is an entirely voluntary service which you _may_ choose to use or not. It does not affect your use of the operating system in any way. On the other hand there is absolutely nothing voluntary about M$ activation, and it does _not_ provide you with the sort of service that Red Hat Network gives. Regards Pete Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
I don't trust the RedHat Network though. I had a customer that had his entire /usr/bin directory wiped out after running the RH Network daemon. It was a bloody mess. Arthur H. Johnson II The Linux Box http://www.linuxbox.nu [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Yes RH is GPL, so is SuSE but you can not dowload a fully functional ISO of it. Being GPL has nothing to do with the basics action that RH leads one to beleive you must take once you have have installed RH. Read the following from the RH site: Get the most out of your Red Hat systems. Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released. Because Red Hat Network keeps track of when Errata Updates are released and sends you email notifications, it can: Reduce the time and effort required by system administrators to stay on top of the Red Hat errata list Minimize security vulnerabilities in your network by providing the patches as soon as Red Hat releases them Filter out package updates not relevant to your network Schedule Errata Updates so that packages are delivered to selected systems when you want it To start using Red Hat Network today, follow these steps: Create a System Profile by registering your system with Red Hat Network. Just run the command rhn_register on the system. Log in to Red Hat Network and entitle the system to all the Software Manager benefits. Start scheduling updates. If you need help with these steps, refer to the Red Hat Network User Reference Guide. If you are a current Red Hat Network customer, please read The New RHN to learn what has changed and what features have been added. When you register and entitle your system, a profile for that system is created. If you wish to install on another or even change systems and still access the RHN you must first unentitle the original system and then register and entitle the second system. If you should wish to use the RHN on more then 1 system you must purchase additional subscribtions at $19.95 per month per machine. Sure, you can get around this by listing all updates applied to one system and then manually updating on any others that you might have. But how many users would even think of this much less do it. There is nothing wrong with RH doing this, linux distros if they are to stay viable must find means of generating revenue beyond that aquired through the sale of box sets of the OS. Is this exactly the same practice that is being used by MS with WP? No. But the basic priciple behind the approch both are taking is the same, 1 copy of the OS on one system. You may well have a differing view, that is why we each are individuals and each has the 'right' to hold and express their own views. But, as to me personally, I can equate no difference between MS's policies in regards to XP and those being currently employeed by RH. Charles Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 01:40:23 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:06:35 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have a problem with RHN, then you have a problem with customised web services in general. Services are the only way that companies like Mandrake and Red Hat can make significant amounts of money, since they are losing money on their distributions. There is nothing wrong with web services, provided that they are carried out in an ethical manner. RHN and MandrakeOnline only collect the information they need to do a specific task. They don't try to cover everything from e-mail to e-commerce, and they don't subvert the user's Internet experience like XP. They also clearly spell out what they are doing, and they don't try to press-gang the user into joining. They are also GPL, so there is no chance of spyware and little chance of insecurity (because of peer review, etc.). I have no problem with RHN as so stated in my previous post. I used it with 7.1 and am currently using it with 7.2 It was not my objective to either vilify RH nor to condone the actions or behaviour of MS. You are speaking of the actuality of the consequences as handled and applied by either party. I was speaking of and comparing only the base concept as being used by both and the common core from which it was derived. We hold differing views on this matter. You need not agree or change to mine, nor I to yours. Both, should, and do, have their place. And each should be respected as such. Charles Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
guys... can u guys stop arguing about these stuffs... do u know if microsoft officials are lurking in the list, their smile are from ear to ear... do u want linux to be seperated to different camps? development hindered by disunity like unix? Go ahead and argue about small things... Microsoft is the one gaining... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sridhar Dhanapalan Sent: 02 November 2001 00:13 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary Are you saying that you don't trust the entire RHN just because of a bug in the software? Do you think Red Hat did it on purpose? That sounds rather unfair to me. Remember, everything is GPL, just like MandrakeOnline. There is nothing hidden here. On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:37:09 -0500 (EST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't trust the RedHat Network though. I had a customer that had his entire /usr/bin directory wiped out after running the RH Network daemon. It was a bloody mess. Arthur H. Johnson II The Linux Box http://www.linuxbox.nu [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Charles A Edwards wrote: On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Yes RH is GPL, so is SuSE but you can not dowload a fully functional ISO of it. Being GPL has nothing to do with the basics action that RH leads one to beleive you must take once you have have installed RH. Read the following from the RH site: Get the most out of your Red Hat systems. Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released. Because Red Hat Network keeps track of when Errata Updates are released and sends you email notifications, it can: Reduce the time and effort required by system administrators to stay on top of the Red Hat errata list Minimize security vulnerabilities in your network by providing the patches as soon as Red Hat releases them Filter out package updates not relevant to your network Schedule Errata Updates so that packages are delivered to selected systems when you want it To start using Red Hat Network today, follow these steps: Create a System Profile by registering your system with Red Hat Network. Just run the command rhn_register on the system. Log in to Red Hat Network and entitle the system to all the Software Manager benefits. Start scheduling updates. If you need help with these steps, refer to the Red Hat Network User Reference Guide. If you are a current Red Hat Network customer, please read The New RHN to learn what has changed and what features have been added. When you register and entitle your system, a profile for that system is created. If you wish to install on another or even change systems and still access the RHN you must first unentitle the original system and then register and entitle the second system. If you should wish to use the RHN on more then 1 system you must purchase additional subscribtions at $19.95 per month per machine. Sure, you can get around this by listing all updates applied to one system and then manually updating on any others that you might have. But how many users would even think of this much less do it. There is nothing wrong with RH doing this, linux distros if they are to stay viable must find means of generating revenue beyond that aquired through the sale of box sets of the OS. Is this exactly the same practice that is being used by MS with WP? No. But the basic priciple behind the approch both are taking is the same, 1 copy of the OS on one system. You may well have a differing view, that is why we each are individuals and each has the 'right' to hold and express their own views. But, as to me personally, I can equate no difference between MS's policies in regards to XP and those being currently employeed by RH. Charles -- Sridhar Dhanapalan I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense -- I deserve it. -- Jean
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
RMS is the kind of guy who is very easily misunderstood. He is also the kind of guy that tends to go a little overboard with things. In some cases, he mellows out with time, after an initial burst of accusations. In short, he's eccentric. And eccentricity and genius go hand-in-hand :) Red Hat has always prided itself on how it licenses everything it makes for its distro under the GPL. Michael Tiemann is one of the the largest corporate GPL supporters, and I've always enjoyed his writings and speeches. One problem with Red Hat, however, is that it is the most popular distribution. This has made it behave in a somewhat proprietary manner, although within the scope of the GPL. For example, they are not a member of the LSB, since they are already a de-facto standard. Joining the LSB would jeapordise that position. Their move to gcc 2.96 has been very controversial. To see Red Hat's defence, see http://bero.org/gcc296.html. They made a similar move some years ago, when they switched from libc to glibc. This broke compatibility with other distributions, and it took about a year before things were back to normal again. However, in the case of libc/glibc, somebody had to make the move forward in order to progress. Red Hat, being the largest distro company and the de facto standard, took the initiative, and so have been blamed for deliberately making their distro incompatible with others. Without a standards body like the LSB, Red Hat was responsible for the community as a whole. Things should improve in the future, as distros sync with the LSB. On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:41:57 -0600 (CST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Wigoda) wrote: I just saw Stallman speak last night and he inferred that Red Hat is not GPL. This is a multi-part message in MIME format... =_1004623536-1734-4670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Yes RH is GPL, so is SuSE but you can not dowload a fully functional ISO of it. Being GPL has nothing to do with the basics action that RH leads one to beleive you must take once you have have installed RH. Read the following from the RH site: Get the most out of your Red Hat systems. Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released. Because Red Hat Network keeps track of when Errata Updates are released and sends you email notifications, it can: Reduce the time and effort required by system administrators to stay on top of the Red Hat errata list Minimize security vulnerabilities in your network by providing the patches as soon as Red Hat releases them Filter out package updates not relevant to your network Schedule Errata Updates so that packages are delivered to selected systems when you want it To start using Red Hat Network today, follow these steps: Create a System Profile by registering your system with Red Hat Network. Just run the command rhn_register on the system. Log in to Red Hat Network and entitle the system to all the Software Manager benefits. Start scheduling updates. If you need help with these steps, refer to the Red Hat Network User Reference Guide. If you are a current Red Hat Network customer, please read The New RHN to learn what has changed and what features have been added. When you register and entitle your system, a profile for that system is created. If you wish to install on another or even change systems and still access the RHN you must first unentitle the original system and then register and entitle the second system. If you should wish to use the RHN on more then 1 system you must purchase additional subscribtions at $19.95 per month per machine. Sure, you can get around this by listing all updates applied to one system and then manually updating on any others that you might have. But how many users would even think of this much less do it. There is nothing wrong with RH doing this, linux distros if they are to stay viable must find means
RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
That can't be true, not according to my understanding of GPL copyleft.. redhat is absolutly chockers with GPL software, not the least of which is the kernel itself, they HAVE to be licensed as GPL,, without GPL, redhat would drop out of the race in a big hurry... not to mention ending up in court.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hal Wigoda Sent: Friday, 2 November 2001 12:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary I just saw Stallman speak last night and he inferred that Red Hat is not GPL. This is a multi-part message in MIME format... =_1004623536-1734-4670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:39:32 +1100 Sridhar Dhanapalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Yes RH is GPL, so is SuSE but you can not dowload a fully functional ISO of it. Being GPL has nothing to do with the basics action that RH leads one to beleive you must take once you have have installed RH. Read the following from the RH site: Get the most out of your Red Hat systems. Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released. Because Red Hat Network keeps track of when Errata Updates are released and sends you email notifications, it can: Reduce the time and effort required by system administrators to stay on top of the Red Hat errata list Minimize security vulnerabilities in your network by providing the patches as soon as Red Hat releases them Filter out package updates not relevant to your network Schedule Errata Updates so that packages are delivered to selected systems when you want it To start using Red Hat Network today, follow these steps: Create a System Profile by registering your system with Red Hat Network. Just run the command rhn_register on the system. Log in to Red Hat Network and entitle the system to all the Software Manager benefits. Start scheduling updates. If you need help with these steps, refer to the Red Hat Network User Reference Guide. If you are a current Red Hat Network customer, please read The New RHN to learn what has changed and what features have been added. When you register and entitle your system, a profile for that system is created. If you wish to install on another or even change systems and still access the RHN you must first unentitle the original system and then register and entitle the second system. If you should wish to use the RHN on more then 1 system you must purchase additional subscribtions at $19.95 per month per machine. Sure, you can get around this by listing all updates applied to one system and then manually updating on any others that you might have. But how many users would even think of this much less do it. There is nothing wrong with RH doing this, linux distros if they are to stay viable must find means of generating revenue beyond that aquired through the sale of box sets of the OS. Is this exactly the same practice that is being used by MS with WP? No. But the basic priciple behind the approch both are taking is the same, 1 copy of the OS on one system. You may well have a differing view, that is why we each are individuals and each has the 'right' to hold and express their own views. But, as to me personally, I can equate no difference between MS's policies in regards to XP and those being currently employeed by RH. Charles =_1004623536-1734-4670 Content-Type: text/plain; name=message.footer Content-Disposition: inline; filename=message.footer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com =_1004623536-1734-4670-- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 19:33:12 -0800 (PST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David E. Fox) wrote: RMS is the kind of guy who is very easily misunderstood. He is also the kind of guy that tends to go a little overboard with things. In some cases, he mellows I've met RMS as well on two separate occasions. His last talk at SVLUG here in Sunnyvale (probably over a year ago) he was (at least in my opinion) over- doing the GPL advocacy thing, like trying to ensure that people only have GPL on their system (advocating exclusion of proprietary things even where they might be useful on Linux systems -- things like Star Office, netscape, etc.) And, he was pushing Debian as 'the' GNU/Linux. Not that I don't advocate Debian - it's a very respectable distribution with many advantages -- but the 'GNU/Linux' is to me a misnomer. Yes, there's a lot of GNU, and perhaps Linux would be less than what it is today without it, but there's a lot of extra non-GNU stuff in a typical Linux distro, and I don't think Debian has an edge on having a higher percentage of GNU than does any of the other distros out there. Debian is 'the' GNU/Linux because it has an official policy of only including something if it is GPL. KDE was excluded for some years until TrollTech relicensed QT under the GPL. RMS uses GNU in a broad sense, referring to the GNU system and to programmes which are under GNU licenses (GPL/LGPL). This forms the vast bulk of any distro, including the most critical portions. Linux is a kernel that cannot work on its own. Its Windows equivalent would be krnl386.exe. The GNU system includes such staples as Glibc, Gcc, Bash, Emacs, Midnight Commander and almost all of the shell commands. A system cannot function without these. The GNU system also includes GNOME and XFree86 (which is MIT licensed, not GPL). Linux itself is GPL, with an exception for addable modules. Add to this everything which is GPL or LGPL (including QT and KDE) and you have a system which would be over 90% GNU, including all the vital components. The remainder are add-ons, things which can very easily be done without. Windows isn't judged by the licenses of external, non-essential applications, so why should GNU/Linux? -- Sridhar Dhanapalan There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home. -- Ken Olson, President, Chairman and Founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
Sad but true. At work, I had to install XP to test my software, and I was shaking my head that after you install XP, you have 30 days to 'activate' it with M$. Fail to do so, and the software locks up. Do so, and that 300$ OS is then tied to that machine - legally, even if that machine breaks, or if you just upgrade to another machine, you have to give M$ another 300$ for another copy. Our 233 Mhz, 64 MB test box can _barely_ budge under the load of XP. What a pile. Edmund -Original Message- From: Tom Brinkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,48011,00.html -- Tom Brinkman Galveston Bay, USA chmod +x /bin/Laden.al-Qaeda.Taliban Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
I don't think you have to spend another $300 to move XP to another machine. I think you have to tell MS that you are moving it to another peice of hardware (or significantly upgrading the hardware) and they will deactivate the old hardware profile and reactivate the new profile -- for free. You can do this either via phone or the internet. I'm not sure what constitutes a major hardware upgrade but my guess would be a mobo and/or cpu change. I don't think the common user even touches this part of their computer, and if you are upgrading these peices you typically have to reinstall your OS anyway... Not to be siding with MS but I think there is a lot of exaggerated hype around the XP activation. We have to install it here for testing as well... It appears no worse than how MusicMatch, CRT, or ACDSEE works. You'll probably start to see more shareware and other software use this activation scheme -- I mean why not, the internet will become ubiquitos and it makes it easy on the software developer. I think the real question is the licensing scheme. Even though I hate how MusicMatch takes over your associations they do allow you to run MusicMatch on 3 machines using one license I think that's pretty fair. I think XP should be allowed to run on 3 to 5 machines on a single license. This would be suitable for freelance developers and families. It'll be interesting to see how this whole thing goes... will the MS users and AOL users allow those two corporation to effectively OWN the internet through sheer laziness and critical mass. -Original Message- From: Mitchell, Edmund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:42 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary Sad but true. At work, I had to install XP to test my software, and I was shaking my head that after you install XP, you have 30 days to 'activate' it with M$. Fail to do so, and the software locks up. Do so, and that 300$ OS is then tied to that machine - legally, even if that machine breaks, or if you just upgrade to another machine, you have to give M$ another 300$ for another copy. Our 233 Mhz, 64 MB test box can _barely_ budge under the load of XP. What a pile. Edmund -Original Message- From: Tom Brinkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,48011,00.html -- Tom Brinkman Galveston Bay, USA chmod +x /bin/Laden.al-Qaeda.Taliban Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
Dems good points, but alot of people nowdays do upgrade their hardware, (or pay people like me to do it) and with 95/98, I used to change Motherboards without reinstalling windows all the time.. From what I understand, you have the ability to change 3 to 5 things before activation kicks in (the 3 to 5 depends on if you have a network card in the PC or if its a notebook (I think notebooks can change 8 things.) Any major upgrade kicks it in straight away though, (like the Motherboard) OF AOL and Microsoft, I don't like either, but if AOL had half of M$'s monopoly, I'd be alot happier, because it would mean a better fight, more competiton cheaper pricing and neither could do anything to block users of the other because they would lose too much themselves by doing it... it occured to me that the Msn.com thing might have been M$ trying to convince AOL to not use mozilla as the base of the AOL and compuserve browsers by making sure that the current AOL browsers can use msn and other M$ sites, but an AOL based on mozilla would not be able to.. they just didn't expect it to come out so quickly and with such outrage.. which is funny because I went to msn.com once many years ago, and haven't been back,, not worth the effort. just some thoughts.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Thursday, 1 November 2001 1:06 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary I don't think you have to spend another $300 to move XP to another machine. I think you have to tell MS that you are moving it to another peice of hardware (or significantly upgrading the hardware) and they will deactivate the old hardware profile and reactivate the new profile -- for free. You can do this either via phone or the internet. I'm not sure what constitutes a major hardware upgrade but my guess would be a mobo and/or cpu change. I don't think the common user even touches this part of their computer, and if you are upgrading these peices you typically have to reinstall your OS anyway... Not to be siding with MS but I think there is a lot of exaggerated hype around the XP activation. We have to install it here for testing as well... It appears no worse than how MusicMatch, CRT, or ACDSEE works. You'll probably start to see more shareware and other software use this activation scheme -- I mean why not, the internet will become ubiquitos and it makes it easy on the software developer. I think the real question is the licensing scheme. Even though I hate how MusicMatch takes over your associations they do allow you to run MusicMatch on 3 machines using one license I think that's pretty fair. I think XP should be allowed to run on 3 to 5 machines on a single license. This would be suitable for freelance developers and families. It'll be interesting to see how this whole thing goes... will the MS users and AOL users allow those two corporation to effectively OWN the internet through sheer laziness and critical mass. -Original Message- From: Mitchell, Edmund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:42 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary Sad but true. At work, I had to install XP to test my software, and I was shaking my head that after you install XP, you have 30 days to 'activate' it with M$. Fail to do so, and the software locks up. Do so, and that 300$ OS is then tied to that machine - legally, even if that machine breaks, or if you just upgrade to another machine, you have to give M$ another 300$ for another copy. Our 233 Mhz, 64 MB test box can _barely_ budge under the load of XP. What a pile. Edmund -Original Message- From: Tom Brinkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,48011,00.html -- Tom Brinkman Galveston Bay, USA chmod +x /bin/Laden.al-Qaeda.Taliban Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
I believe your right as I read it. Still a hassle I can buy one copy of Linux and copy to two desktops and trying to copy to my laptop for $60 while it cost at least $100 for the upgrade for one machine. Then I have to keep getting permission everytime I move to a different or make substantial upgrades. Here is another point too. The hardware upgrade is obvious in favor of vendors who are hurting during these financial times. If you can run Linux on old hardware and get as good or even better performance don't you think this keeps Linux out since vendor make money on selling their hardware? Amazon saved themselves some serious cash with HP's hardware and Linux software with only a few MS around for whatever reason. Technically, this means that they can keep their hardware and software going longer compared to MS, SunMicrosystem, etc. Doesn't that hurt the hardware vendors since they may not make enough to service the equipment compared to selling newer hardware to old and new customers. The OS won't be a problem to customers since they can upgrade and adapt Linux to whatever they want or may need. If anyone can enlighten me on this business side of Linux I would appreciate it very much. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:46:51 -0800, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe your right as I read it. Still a hassle I can buy one copy of Linux and copy to two desktops and trying to copy to my laptop for $60 while it cost at least $100 for the upgrade for one machine. Then I have to keep getting permission everytime I move to a different or make substantial upgrades. Here is another point too. The hardware upgrade is obvious in favor of vendors who are hurting during these financial times. If you can run Linux on old hardware and get as good or even better performance don't you think this keeps Linux out since vendor make money on selling their hardware? Amazon saved themselves some serious cash with HP's hardware and Linux software with only a few MS around for whatever reason. Technically, this means that they can keep their hardware and software going longer compared to MS, SunMicrosystem, etc. Doesn't that hurt the hardware vendors since they may not make enough to service the equipment compared to selling newer hardware to old and new customers. The OS won't be a problem to customers since they can upgrade and adapt Linux to whatever they want or may need. If anyone can enlighten me on this business side of Linux I would appreciate it very much. Hardware vendors have been in alliance with MS for some years now, and together they strong-arm consumers into buying new hardware to run the latest version of Windows and Office. In economic terms, this is a gross misallocation of resources, and ties companies (the consumers) down so that they cannot compete and innovate effectively. On the other side, MS and its allies (the producers) become rich and store vast amounts of money in bank accounts (MS has about $US30 billion in the bank), where it does nothing. They dont need to compete, and so they are expensive, inefficient and complacent. With GNU/Linux, companies can spend far less resources on IT, so they have more money to spend on development and on competing effectively. This ultimately benefits the economy and consumers with better products and lower prices. In other words, GNU/Linux shifts market power from the producers to the consumers, which according to Western neoclassical economics should produce a favourable outcome. There we go - (Western) Economics 101 applied to the IT industry :) -- Sridhar Dhanapalan The dark ages were caused by the Y1K problem. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Sridhar Dhanapalan HTML needs a rant tag. -- Eric S. Raymond Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
So how do you get ahold of the software in the first place if it only lasts for 30 days? I would not pay twice for it. Thank goodness for Linux :) On Wednesday 31 October 2001 11:16 pm, you wrote: Alright enough's enough. RH is not subject to an activation scheme. Its free software just like any other Linux. What you DO have to do is register (for free) with the Red Hat Network for automated updates. You can still download the updates in regular RPM's but if you want an entire network of RH boxes to use the RH Network then you'll have to pay for that privledge. Thats all. There is no activation scheme when using RH. And for that matter, even though you have to activate WinXP you do have 30 days to do so before it will shut down. Once activated you can upgrade any component within a 120 day period as long as you do not cross a certain threshold (i.e. replacing everything at once). So yes you can upgrade your RAM and HD both at the same time or RAM and Video card or HD and CPU without triggering a re-activation, and thats all that happens. A re-activation is triggered and the OS will then function again. If no major upgrading is done within 120 days XP resets itself meaning you could (but not legally) install WinXP on two different computers if you bothered to wait 120 days between installs. Now, can we stop the OS bashing please? On Wednesday, October 31, 2001, at 11:39 PM, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Sridhar Dhanapalan HTML needs a rant tag. -- Eric S. Raymond Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
Then I have to keep getting permission everytime I move to a different or make substantial upgrades. No you don't. You can download it anonymously for free, clone copies of it, install it on a bunch of machines, etc. Support is another issue, of course, but the software is free of a need to register. Sure there are ways to register, you can go to linux counter, buy the software and get installation support (btw you could buy one copy and install it on 10+ machines and call in for help putting it on your roomate's laptop, I figure). Here is another point too. The hardware upgrade is obvious in favor of vendors who are hurting during these financial times. If you can run Linux on old hardware and get as good or even better performance don't you think this keeps Linux out since vendor make money on selling their hardware? Amazon Vendors might not like Linux if it doesn't make people go out and get new hardware. But I don't think that is the case. Upgrading is at least some- what necessary, even with Linux. Linux can still run on my 386sx (first used with Linux back in 1994) but I'm not going to get a lot of work done. Same with it running on my old P-100, but it runs extremely well on my Athlon. But I've kept ahold of the hardware longer than most people, I figure, and I've not bought a PC in toto since 1991. I just put together the systems myself, upgrading by piecemeal (like getting a new HD or adding RAM) over time. That must irk the PC integrators who want me to buy a whole new box every year or two. :) Put things in perspective: would you expect people to go out and get a whole new stereo system every couple of years - every time a new audio- related technology comes out? Why replace your speakers, receiver, tape decks, etc., just because a better CD technology comes out? Many people purchase stereo systems by components, and computers are not all that much different, at least in my opinion. Only the people who haven't any- thing to start with buy 'all in one' systems. David E. Fox Thanks for letting me [EMAIL PROTECTED]change magnetic patterns [EMAIL PROTECTED] on your hard disk. --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
Well, you go to a store and buy it. Then when you install it, the 30 day countdown begins. If you don't activate it within that time frame it stops working. On Thursday, November 1, 2001, at 12:20 AM, Newbie wrote: So how do you get ahold of the software in the first place if it only lasts for 30 days? I would not pay twice for it. Thank goodness for Linux :) On Wednesday 31 October 2001 11:16 pm, you wrote: Alright enough's enough. RH is not subject to an activation scheme. Its free software just like any other Linux. What you DO have to do is register (for free) with the Red Hat Network for automated updates. You can still download the updates in regular RPM's but if you want an entire network of RH boxes to use the RH Network then you'll have to pay for that privledge. Thats all. There is no activation scheme when using RH. And for that matter, even though you have to activate WinXP you do have 30 days to do so before it will shut down. Once activated you can upgrade any component within a 120 day period as long as you do not cross a certain threshold (i.e. replacing everything at once). So yes you can upgrade your RAM and HD both at the same time or RAM and Video card or HD and CPU without triggering a re-activation, and thats all that happens. A re-activation is triggered and the OS will then function again. If no major upgrading is done within 120 days XP resets itself meaning you could (but not legally) install WinXP on two different computers if you bothered to wait 120 days between installs. Now, can we stop the OS bashing please? On Wednesday, October 31, 2001, at 11:39 PM, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Sridhar Dhanapalan HTML needs a rant tag. -- Eric S. Raymond Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
Ok thanks for the info. This seals my decision to not buy XP ever, paying for it twice? Ripoff. Linux will forever rule in my house. On Thursday 01 November 2001 12:29 am, you wrote: Well, you go to a store and buy it. Then when you install it, the 30 day countdown begins. If you don't activate it within that time frame it stops working. On Thursday, November 1, 2001, at 12:20 AM, Newbie wrote: So how do you get ahold of the software in the first place if it only lasts for 30 days? I would not pay twice for it. Thank goodness for Linux :) On Wednesday 31 October 2001 11:16 pm, you wrote: Alright enough's enough. RH is not subject to an activation scheme. Its free software just like any other Linux. What you DO have to do is register (for free) with the Red Hat Network for automated updates. You can still download the updates in regular RPM's but if you want an entire network of RH boxes to use the RH Network then you'll have to pay for that privledge. Thats all. There is no activation scheme when using RH. And for that matter, even though you have to activate WinXP you do have 30 days to do so before it will shut down. Once activated you can upgrade any component within a 120 day period as long as you do not cross a certain threshold (i.e. replacing everything at once). So yes you can upgrade your RAM and HD both at the same time or RAM and Video card or HD and CPU without triggering a re-activation, and thats all that happens. A re-activation is triggered and the OS will then function again. If no major upgrading is done within 120 days XP resets itself meaning you could (but not legally) install WinXP on two different computers if you bothered to wait 120 days between installs. Now, can we stop the OS bashing please? On Wednesday, October 31, 2001, at 11:39 PM, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:40:39 -0500, Charles A Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not understand the huecry, especially from linux users, about the activation process of Windows XP, or the fact that it is tied to 1 system. This not an unheard of, or unused procedure. Red Hat has been using basicly the same in there treatment of installations since 7.1. Ummm... How? Red Hat is GPL. You can download it freely of the Internet. What's the point in a product activation copy protection scheme then? -- Sridhar Dhanapalan HTML needs a rant tag. -- Eric S. Raymond Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
No I would expect people to do whatever they want with their money. Frankly, I am sure we all know someone or several peope who do buy the latest and greatest. Obviously, vendors like this and keep them on record to send advertisement and other bait on the fishhook for these kind of customer. Many people do buy whole new stereo systems as well as individual components. I wish I could see a statistic on this but I would not be amazed if the majority of consumers did buy new toys every couple of years. My boss just threw away his VCR and picked up another after only 2 years. I still have one from 97 without any problems and the last thing I am going to do is purchase another one, but thats just me. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Windows XP: EXtra Proprietary
Maybe, because MS is hated largely by Linux users while Red Hat is hated by a small ultra anti commercial software groups. I heard of the Red Hat but had thought it was removed when Red Hat users complained about it. Red Hat can probably get away with it with Linux user turning a blind eye while with MS its towns people with pitch forks and torches. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
