Re: [newbie] grub lilo
Frank wrote: I'm starting to learn more about grub. And on a Mandrake system that means trouble for someone. I've used both grub and lilo, and cannot find much to choose between them, but mandrake tends to prefer lilo so I use that now days. You see, I now have my primary disk exclusively Mandrake and though the first partition is /boot I have yet to see Lilo ala GUI perform reliably yet. The first screen always comes up OK Called the splash scrre, and offers you choice of OS to boot but when lilo moves on to the second screen, Do you mean the login screen, where you choose which person to log in as ? well, I get to boot successfully usually after the third or fourth try. Form login, or the whole thing ? How much memory ? Sounds to me like maybe xwindows is failing maybe ? Are you booting ked ? John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
I have used lilo for years and since I changed and learned grub - well I think it is marvelous. Well of course every individual has his/her own taste and I like that. Johan *** - Original Message - From: Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] grub lilo I'm starting to learn more about grub. And on a Mandrake system that means trouble for someone. You see, I now have my primary disk exclusively Mandrake and though the first partition is /boot I have yet to see Lilo ala GUI perform reliably yet. The first screen always comes up OK but when lilo moves on to the second screen, well, I get to boot successfully usually after the third or fourth try. I have had this problem since Mandrake9.0 and it gets annoying when my system will not boot up first time each day. I guess that makes this a con for lilo then? -- Regards Frank Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve. Registered Linux User # 324213 James Conner wrote: On Sunday 26 October 2003 08:33 pm, Heather/Femme wrote: I've heard grub is experimental .. but RH uses it almost exclusively and alot of ppl say its better than LILO. True? False? I'd search google for a site detailing the differences Pros/cons of each but I don't kow where to start... I know I know, I'm usually good at research but I'm stumped on this. Can somoene gimme a pointer pls? even a google URL? thx Femme I've used both. There are pros and cons on both. Grub: Pros: - You can edit the config file and not worry about having to write it to the mbr like lilo, it'll take effect on the next boot. - You can edit stanzas on the fly on the Grub menu on boot. Cons: - If you mess up the config file, you might end up with a unbootable system. This can be a nightmare for people doing remote support. Lilo: Pros: After you edit the lilo config file you can do a lilo -v and know if you messed anything up or not. Well, most of the time. Syntax is easier to understand and use for newbies. Cons: Versions older than 2 years will have the dreaded 1024 cylinder barrier for /boot. I'm sure that there are more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I usually setup new users with lilo, it's easier to understand and modify if necessary. Jim Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:10:17 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank wrote: I'm starting to learn more about grub. And on a Mandrake system that means trouble for someone. I've used both grub and lilo, and cannot find much to choose between them, but mandrake tends to prefer lilo so I use that now days. Strangely, grub was their choice for non-expert install on my first Mandrake distro 7.1. -- Michael Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:26:42 + James Conner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used both. There are pros and cons on both. SNIPPAGE I'm sure that there are more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I usually setup new users with lilo, it's easier to understand and modify if necessary. Jim -- Thx Jim thats what I wanted to know! Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
For the differences: Lilo uses the BIOS to access the partition where the image is residing. It is file-system independent. This is accomplished at boot sector installation time, by translating the location of the kernel image into a list of disk sectors, which then LILO loads using the BIOS. As a consequence, when you change anything about the kernel (location, configuration...) you need to re-run lilo so that it can update the map. Grub incorporates a reduced version of a file system, so it uses the file system meta-information to access the kernel image at boot time. That's why you don't need to re-run grub after modifying the kernel: it gets the information it needs directly from the FS. Check Almesberger's paper Booting linux: the history and the future for a very good overview, for example at: ftp://icaftp.epfl.ch/pub/people/almesber/booting/bootinglinux-0.ps.gz raffaele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've heard grub is experimental .. but RH uses it almost exclusively and alot of ppl say its better than LILO. True? False? I'd search google for a site detailing the differences Pros/cons of each but I don't kow where to start... I know I know, I'm usually good at research but I'm stumped on this. Can somoene gimme a pointer pls? even a google URL? thx Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
Sorry, I should have written Grub incorporates a reduced version of a file system _driver_ raffaele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the differences: Lilo uses the BIOS to access the partition where the image is residing. It is file-system independent. This is accomplished at boot sector installation time, by translating the location of the kernel image into a list of disk sectors, which then LILO loads using the BIOS. As a consequence, when you change anything about the kernel (location, configuration...) you need to re-run lilo so that it can update the map. Grub incorporates a reduced version of a file system, so it uses the file system meta-information to access the kernel image at boot time. That's why you don't need to re-run grub after modifying the kernel: it gets the information it needs directly from the FS. Check Almesberger's paper Booting linux: the history and the future for a very good overview, for example at: ftp://icaftp.epfl.ch/pub/people/almesber/booting/bootinglinux-0.ps.gz raffaele [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've heard grub is experimental .. but RH uses it almost exclusively and alot of ppl say its better than LILO. True? False? I'd search google for a site detailing the differences Pros/cons of each but I don't kow where to start... I know I know, I'm usually good at research but I'm stumped on this. Can somoene gimme a pointer pls? even a google URL? thx Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 10:21:22 +0100 Raffaele Belardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the differences: Lilo uses the BIOS to access the partition where the image is residing. It is file-system independent. This is accomplished at boot sector installation time, by translating the location of the kernel image into a list of disk sectors, which then LILO loads using the BIOS. As a consequence, when you change anything about the kernel (location, configuration...) you need to re-run lilo so that it can update the map. Grub incorporates a reduced version of a file system, so it uses the file system meta-information to access the kernel image at boot time. That's why you don't need to re-run grub after modifying the kernel: it gets the information it needs directly from the FS. Check Almesberger's paper Booting linux: the history and the future for a very good overview, for example at: ftp://icaftp.epfl.ch/pub/people/almesber/booting/bootinglinux-0.ps.gz raffaele thx your explanation was sufficient for me :) Concise enough I understood perfectly. FEmme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
I'm starting to learn more about grub. And on a Mandrake system that means trouble for someone. You see, I now have my primary disk exclusively Mandrake and though the first partition is /boot I have yet to see Lilo ala GUI perform reliably yet. The first screen always comes up OK but when lilo moves on to the second screen, well, I get to boot successfully usually after the third or fourth try. I have had this problem since Mandrake9.0 and it gets annoying when my system will not boot up first time each day. I guess that makes this a con for lilo then? -- Regards Frank Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve. Registered Linux User # 324213 James Conner wrote: On Sunday 26 October 2003 08:33 pm, Heather/Femme wrote: I've heard grub is experimental .. but RH uses it almost exclusively and alot of ppl say its better than LILO. True? False? I'd search google for a site detailing the differences Pros/cons of each but I don't kow where to start... I know I know, I'm usually good at research but I'm stumped on this. Can somoene gimme a pointer pls? even a google URL? thx Femme I've used both. There are pros and cons on both. Grub: Pros: - You can edit the config file and not worry about having to write it to the mbr like lilo, it'll take effect on the next boot. - You can edit stanzas on the fly on the Grub menu on boot. Cons: - If you mess up the config file, you might end up with a unbootable system. This can be a nightmare for people doing remote support. Lilo: Pros: After you edit the lilo config file you can do a lilo -v and know if you messed anything up or not. Well, most of the time. Syntax is easier to understand and use for newbies. Cons: Versions older than 2 years will have the dreaded 1024 cylinder barrier for /boot. I'm sure that there are more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I usually setup new users with lilo, it's easier to understand and modify if necessary. Jim Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
On Sunday 26 October 2003 03:33 pm, Heather/Femme wrote: I've heard grub is experimental .. but RH uses it almost exclusively and alot of ppl say its better than LILO. True? False? I use GrUB. I wouldn't call it experimental. It works great. I'd search google for a site detailing the differences Pros/cons of each but I don't kow where to start... I know I know, I'm usually good at research but I'm stumped on this. Can somoene gimme a pointer pls? even a google URL? For me the biggest is that if you make a config change, you don't have to run lilo. Just make your change and reboot. The other thing I like is that you can edit any boot stanza at runtime, meaning that if I made a mistake in my configuration, append statements, etc. I can edit it at boot. I don't use this, but I think it handles hiding partitions better than lilo does too. This is important for some alternative OS's like Darwin, which must be on the first partition of the first disk. -- /g Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside a dog it's too dark to read -Groucho Marx Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:08:16 -0500 Greg Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIPPAGE For me the biggest is that if you make a config change, you don't have to run lilo. Just make your change and reboot. The other thing I like is that you can edit any boot stanza at runtime, meaning that if I made a mistake in my configuration, append statements, etc. I can edit it at boot. -- /g thx guess that helps some. heh Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] grub lilo
On Sunday 26 October 2003 08:33 pm, Heather/Femme wrote: I've heard grub is experimental .. but RH uses it almost exclusively and alot of ppl say its better than LILO. True? False? I'd search google for a site detailing the differences Pros/cons of each but I don't kow where to start... I know I know, I'm usually good at research but I'm stumped on this. Can somoene gimme a pointer pls? even a google URL? thx Femme I've used both. There are pros and cons on both. Grub: Pros: - You can edit the config file and not worry about having to write it to the mbr like lilo, it'll take effect on the next boot. - You can edit stanzas on the fly on the Grub menu on boot. Cons: - If you mess up the config file, you might end up with a unbootable system. This can be a nightmare for people doing remote support. Lilo: Pros: After you edit the lilo config file you can do a lilo -v and know if you messed anything up or not. Well, most of the time. Syntax is easier to understand and use for newbies. Cons: Versions older than 2 years will have the dreaded 1024 cylinder barrier for /boot. I'm sure that there are more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I usually setup new users with lilo, it's easier to understand and modify if necessary. Jim -- 11:01pm up 2 days, 9:17, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00 Running Mandrake 9.0 - Linux - because life is too short for reboots... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Grub/LILO--why?
LILO forever...grub sounds like a fat, gooie worm that squirmed out from under a log to be breakfast for a Robin. -- Mark / * Sometimes it becomes necessary to rock the boat * in order to get the rats up from below decks * so they can be kicked over the side and drowned! * * REGISTERED LINUX USER # 182496 */ *REPLY SEPERATOR* On Fri, 24 Nov 2000 Jim Anderson had this to say! According to something I saw on the l-m site, GRUB is now the default bootloader for Linux-Mandrake 7.2, but LILO is optional in an Expert install. - jim On 11/24/00 12:03 PM, philomena spoke the words: I prefer grub for a few small reasons - you can make changes on the fly and try them out without having to remember to run lilo to effect your changes, and to make the changes permanent you simply edit the menu file- again, as soon as you save your changes, thats it - nothing else to execute. I have heard that the newer lilo versions are more graphical and friendlier, but I'm sticking with grub. I don't think the differences bewteen lilo and grub are not that great - more just a matter of slight preferences. philomena On Saturday 25 November 2000 12:03 am, you wrote: I am presently running another distro than mdk, so I'm not familiar with grub. Why would one want to use grub instead of the usual LILO, especially now that LILO can load anywhere? --doug At 19:07 11/24/2000 +0100, Paul wrote: On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Kelly, Christopher wrote: Ok, here today's question. I recently upgraded my winblows OS and it overrode my grub. I used the rescue disk and I can get into Linux now. It is however, using LILO to boot. How can I get it back to grub? Log in as root, go to /boot/grub, and run ./install.sh Next boot you'll see grub again Paul
Re: [newbie] Grub/LILO--why?
On Thu, 30 November 2000, Mark Weaver wrote: LILO forever...grub sounds like a fat, gooie worm that squirmed out from under a log to be breakfast for a Robin. -- Mark Mark - Resistance is futile, you WILL be assimilated Barry :-)) Surfree.com - nationwide internet access http://www.surfree.com
Re: [newbie] Grub/LILO--why?
I am presently running another distro than mdk, so I'm not familiar with grub. Why would one want to use grub instead of the usual LILO, especially now that LILO can load anywhere? --doug At 19:07 11/24/2000 +0100, Paul wrote: On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Kelly, Christopher wrote: Ok, here today's question. I recently upgraded my winblows OS and it overrode my grub. I used the rescue disk and I can get into Linux now. It is however, using LILO to boot. How can I get it back to grub? Log in as root, go to /boot/grub, and run ./install.sh Next boot you'll see grub again Paul
Re: [newbie] Grub/LILO--why?
I prefer grub for a few small reasons - you can make changes on the fly and try them out without having to remember to run lilo to effect your changes, and to make the changes permanent you simply edit the menu file- again, as soon as you save your changes, thats it - nothing else to execute. I have heard that the newer lilo versions are more graphical and friendlier, but I'm sticking with grub. I don't think the differences bewteen lilo and grub are not that great - more just a matter of slight preferences. philomena On Saturday 25 November 2000 12:03 am, you wrote: I am presently running another distro than mdk, so I'm not familiar with grub. Why would one want to use grub instead of the usual LILO, especially now that LILO can load anywhere? --doug At 19:07 11/24/2000 +0100, Paul wrote: On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Kelly, Christopher wrote: Ok, here today's question. I recently upgraded my winblows OS and it overrode my grub. I used the rescue disk and I can get into Linux now. It is however, using LILO to boot. How can I get it back to grub? Log in as root, go to /boot/grub, and run ./install.sh Next boot you'll see grub again Paul
Re: [newbie] Grub/LILO--why?
According to something I saw on the l-m site, GRUB is now the default bootloader for Linux-Mandrake 7.2, but LILO is optional in an Expert install. - jim On 11/24/00 12:03 PM, philomena spoke the words: I prefer grub for a few small reasons - you can make changes on the fly and try them out without having to remember to run lilo to effect your changes, and to make the changes permanent you simply edit the menu file- again, as soon as you save your changes, thats it - nothing else to execute. I have heard that the newer lilo versions are more graphical and friendlier, but I'm sticking with grub. I don't think the differences bewteen lilo and grub are not that great - more just a matter of slight preferences. philomena On Saturday 25 November 2000 12:03 am, you wrote: I am presently running another distro than mdk, so I'm not familiar with grub. Why would one want to use grub instead of the usual LILO, especially now that LILO can load anywhere? --doug At 19:07 11/24/2000 +0100, Paul wrote: On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Kelly, Christopher wrote: Ok, here today's question. I recently upgraded my winblows OS and it overrode my grub. I used the rescue disk and I can get into Linux now. It is however, using LILO to boot. How can I get it back to grub? Log in as root, go to /boot/grub, and run ./install.sh Next boot you'll see grub again Paul
Re: [newbie] Grub/LILO--why?
Anyone with windows installed on the front partitions that are migrating over to mandrake will probably appreciate grup as it overcomes the 1024 cylinder limitation of lilo. A few weeks ago I went to onstall SuSE over my mandrake partitions. Since it uses lilo and my boot partition was outside the 1024 boundary I had so readjust some of my windows/data partitions before I could install. And that isn't as easy to do in SuSE as it is with mandrake using DiskDrake. I have since moved back to mandrake for a lot of similar reasons. Nev Jim Anderson wrote: According to something I saw on the l-m site, GRUB is now the default bootloader for Linux-Mandrake 7.2, but LILO is optional in an Expert install. - jim On 11/24/00 12:03 PM, philomena spoke the words: I prefer grub for a few small reasons - you can make changes on the fly and try them out without having to remember to run lilo to effect your changes, and to make the changes permanent you simply edit the menu file- again, as soon as you save your changes, thats it - nothing else to execute. I have heard that the newer lilo versions are more graphical and friendlier, but I'm sticking with grub. I don't think the differences bewteen lilo and grub are not that great - more just a matter of slight preferences. philomena On Saturday 25 November 2000 12:03 am, you wrote: I am presently running another distro than mdk, so I'm not familiar with grub. Why would one want to use grub instead of the usual LILO, especially now that LILO can load anywhere? --doug At 19:07 11/24/2000 +0100, Paul wrote: On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Kelly, Christopher wrote: Ok, here today's question. I recently upgraded my winblows OS and it overrode my grub. I used the rescue disk and I can get into Linux now. It is however, using LILO to boot. How can I get it back to grub? Log in as root, go to /boot/grub, and run ./install.sh Next boot you'll see grub again Paul
Re: [newbie] Grub/LILO--why?
On Friday 24 November 2000 21:16, you wrote: Anyone with windows installed on the front partitions that are migrating over to mandrake will probably appreciate grup as it overcomes the 1024 cylinder limitation of lilo. A few weeks ago I went to onstall SuSE over my mandrake partitions. Since it uses lilo and my boot partition was outside the 1024 boundary I had so readjust some of my windows/data partitions before I could install. And that isn't as easy to do in SuSE as it is with mandrake using DiskDrake. I have since moved back to mandrake for a lot of similar reasons. Nev Jim Anderson wrote: According to something I saw on the l-m site, GRUB is now the default bootloader for Linux-Mandrake 7.2, but LILO is optional in an Expert install. - jim On 11/24/00 12:03 PM, philomena spoke the words: I prefer grub for a few small reasons - you can make changes on the fly and try them out without having to remember to run lilo to effect your changes, and to make the changes permanent you simply edit the menu file- again, as soon as you save your changes, thats it - nothing else to execute. I have heard that the newer lilo versions are more graphical and friendlier, but I'm sticking with grub. I don't think the differences bewteen lilo and grub are not that great - more just a matter of slight preferences. philomena On Saturday 25 November 2000 12:03 am, you wrote: I am presently running another distro than mdk, so I'm not familiar with grub. Why would one want to use grub instead of the usual LILO, especially now that LILO can load anywhere? --doug At 19:07 11/24/2000 +0100, Paul wrote: On Fri, 24 Nov 2000, Kelly, Christopher wrote: Ok, here today's question. I recently upgraded my winblows OS and it overrode my grub. I used the rescue disk and I can get into Linux now. It is however, using LILO to boot. How can I get it back to grub? Log in as root, go to /boot/grub, and run ./install.sh Next boot you'll see grub again Paul Newer versions of lilo (don't know the number sorry) don't have the 1024th cylinder limitation. -- Eddie Torress www.veloct.net
Re: [newbie] GRUB/Lilo question
Hi Tom, Finally got around to checking out the "info grub" and it did indeed do the trick. I was surprised that I could not change what I needed to change through the Drakboot interface - I had to edit the grub menu file to properly indicate where to look for the boot image. Thanks for the pointer - all works like a charm now. cheers, philomena At 04:31 PM 7/10/00 -0500, you wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, you wrote: Hi, I have 3 diff OS installed on my machine and want to use GRUB as the bootmanager. I have no problems with getting Mandrake and win98 to boot - no problems there. My third OS is a basic SuSE install - doing some comparison testing - but I am missing something when trying to add SuSE to GRUB. The SuSe root partition is /dev/hda5 and the boot partition is /dev/hda3. Its kernel image has the same name as the Mandrake image - /boot/vmlinuz. It seems that even though I specify where it should boot from, GRUB loads the Mandrake kernel - NOT the SuSE image. I tried specifiying to grab the kernel by giving the whole path, but that gave a syntax error. I've looked at a few How-Tos but I haven't found an example of loading 2 linux distros - they usually discuss windows and linux. Any ideas ? Should the two kernels have different names ? Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks, philomena The syntax for specifying the HDD location of the os you want to boot is a lot different with grub, but 'info grub' explains it very well. Compared to other man and info pages, it gets an A+ in my book. Have a look, I believe your questions will be answered. -- ~~ Tom Brinkman[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [newbie] GRUB/Lilo question
On Mon, 10 Jul 2000, you wrote: Hi, I have 3 diff OS installed on my machine and want to use GRUB as the bootmanager. I have no problems with getting Mandrake and win98 to boot - no problems there. My third OS is a basic SuSE install - doing some comparison testing - but I am missing something when trying to add SuSE to GRUB. The SuSe root partition is /dev/hda5 and the boot partition is /dev/hda3. Its kernel image has the same name as the Mandrake image - /boot/vmlinuz. It seems that even though I specify where it should boot from, GRUB loads the Mandrake kernel - NOT the SuSE image. I tried specifiying to grab the kernel by giving the whole path, but that gave a syntax error. I've looked at a few How-Tos but I haven't found an example of loading 2 linux distros - they usually discuss windows and linux. Any ideas ? Should the two kernels have different names ? Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks, philomena The syntax for specifying the HDD location of the os you want to boot is a lot different with grub, but 'info grub' explains it very well. Compared to other man and info pages, it gets an A+ in my book. Have a look, I believe your questions will be answered. -- ~~ Tom Brinkman[EMAIL PROTECTED]
