[NSP] Re: Doubleday
the special quality of the smallpipes is that they can be played in tune But unfortunately often aren't, even by respected players! If the cap fits... csirz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
what Northumbrian pipes can do better than any other; that precise delivery of detached notes with duration and silences perfectly timed. But unfortunately the obsession with detaching the notes sometimes lead to the durations and silences being somewhat random - thus destroying the rhythmic flow. This combined with poor intonation (and possibly cheap electronic echo effects, which I gather to my amazement would appear to be compatible with proper piping) can lead to a result that is unlistenable. I do not wish to be unkind or discourteous, but if the cap fits c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
I think the discussion was really about the best that can be heard in Northumbrian piping. Random timing and poor intonation can be heard in abundance whatever the instrument and has nothing to do with NSPs in particular. Rather than dwelling any further on mediocre musicality, I'd rather repeat what Inky Adrian recently said: Expression is emphasised in precision Carve that in stone above the entrance to the Academy of Smallpiping! And yes it also works for harpsichord playing so thanks to Paul Gretton for that thought. Francis On 21 Dec 2010, at 09:22, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: what Northumbrian pipes can do better than any other; that precise delivery of detached notes with duration and silences perfectly timed. But unfortunately the obsession with detaching the notes sometimes lead to the durations and silences being somewhat random - thus destroying the rhythmic flow. This combined with poor intonation (and possibly cheap electronic echo effects, which I gather to my amazement would appear to be compatible with proper piping) can lead to a result that is unlistenable. I do not wish to be unkind or discourteous, but if the cap fits c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Anthony Robb
Yesterday John Gibbons wrote: Is 'the NSP don't move Anthony as much as the fiddle does', a sentence about the NSP or about Anthony? He has now explained that this is his own paraphrase based on something I wrote about one particular tune played by two top rank players on the two best instruments in the world. That's not much evidence on which to base an accurate conclusion so here are some bits of information to set things in context. 1) Some time ago I sold a fiddle made in 1749 in Prague by Eberle (authenticated by a large auction house in London) to fund my ivory G pipes. I got 650 GBP for that instrument. These fiddles last year were selling for between 40,000 and 70,000 GBP. Do I regret selling it - not one bit. Pipes are my greatest love and always will be. 2) Loving something most in the world and being aware of its strengths and weaknesses is to me a perfectly tenable position. 3) I have always been moved by music and it affects me often at a physical level. Not just bringing me to tears when it is beautiful but also hurting when it's not right. A while ago I was playing at a pub session where the jigs were being pushed along very forcibly and it caused physical discomfort. As we jostled along through the tunes it was like receiving tiny shocks (like a PP3 on the tongue). I am delighted to say no pipes were involved in this unpleasant experience. 4) I'm not 'back' in the piping fold as John implies. I never really left it. What has happened is that my fiddling experience has enriched my whole approach. I discovered among other things that fiddles too will tell you to go forth and multiply in the afternoon despite being nice as pie that same morning (but fiddles don't do it on such a regular basis). 5) I have found my reappraisal of pipes/piping and consequently working within the limitations has changed my approach since the Cut Dry days and is now hitting the mark in other pipers in a way my piping never did in those days. There has been a particulary embarrassing number of OTT compliments this year but it was the strength of praise which tells me I have taken the right route for me. Yes the pipes have the most wonderful sound, they can be played lyrically and musically and can really hit the spot. But, as Inky Adrian implies they need to be played 'properly' to achieve this. The trouble is this is much harder to do on pipes than any other traditional instrument. Perhaps we have reached the stage in piping history when need to say to ourselves let's stop bagging tunes like Munros. May I suggest picking one tune that really speaks to us but isn't yet inside us (this includes brain, heart and fingers) and devote half our practice time each week to that single tune for 1-6 months (depending on time allocated to practice and complexity of tune). Yes by all means develop repertoire in the other half but keep that one tune until it becomes your very own music. When it has reached this point choose another and what you have learnt in that first experience will pay dividends. I might have been a bit of a bright spark on the pipes in my early days but it took me more hours than I care to admit to turn Jamie Allan and Because He Was a Bonny Lad into something which is (more or less) music to my ears. As aye Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Hello inky-adrian, This is interesting and thought provoking, but I would like to have your insight on where, and how, the precision can be found and appreciated. At my level of fumbling I need all the help I can get to begin to feel the phrases the composer unconsciously put together to make the pipes express his wishes. Thanks (we have winter here as well!) Dave S On 12/6/2010 2:14 AM, inky-adrian wrote: Hello all this instrument does not lack ability, it lacks players who can't play in the correct method; not many can do that. Expression is emphasised in precision. I'm not here to delineate. There is no more expression in those who can play the detached method with feeling. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
There is no more expression in those who can play the detached method with feeling. This seems an odd statement from one such as Adrian. Is there a word missing? E.g. than ... (... in those who can play the detached method with feeling)? Or shouldn't the word no be there? c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Anthony Robb
two best instruments in the world. You forgot the viols! I have always been moved by music and it affects me often at a physical level. Not just bringing me to tears when it is beautiful but also hurting when it's not right. I can sympathise with this. Personally, I find bad tuning particularly painful, which is one of the reasons I particularly love Aunt Sally's playing and have big reservations about the high priest. ;-) c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Talking about expression outwith the context of tone, technique and rhythm is like talking about tone as detached from tuning. The most moving performances are always a combination of all three. One may play the greatest expression in the world, but if it is on an instrument the is not well tuned, it ain't music. If the rhythm is pushed -- as dance tunes often are from players with limited technique -- then it ain't music. Tone and technique are pre-requisites for playing good expression. As someone coming originally from the Highland tradition, all elements of NSP came fairly quickly to me -- except for the silences. I was struck very quickly by how well the clever players can use these to inject rhythm, feeling and humour into their tunes. But this ability is very much dependent on their mastery of technique. Without technique, expression can't get past the fingers and out the chanter. I've always been a believer, with any bagpipe, that if you want to improve your ability to play expressively, you do well to work on your technique. Jim McGillivray MCGILLIVRAY PIPING www.piping.on.ca www.pipetunes.ca On 2010-12-21, at 5:41 AM, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: There is no more expression in those who can play the detached method with feeling. This seems an odd statement from one such as Adrian. Is there a word missing? E.g. than ... (... in those who can play the detached method with feeling)? Or shouldn't the word no be there? c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
We've been at risk of straying onto the which instrument is best? territory here, methinks, but Jim's points are right, to my mind. And they bring me a few more thoughts which I hope are useful and not merely pompous! Some instruments are easier to make an acceptable sound on than others, (OK, acceptable to whom?) though I believe most to be equally hard to make play real music. Generalisations: Some, like harps, make a magic sound which attracts many people even if the player isn't that good, and can lure the player into thinking they're wonderful. Some, like the hurdy gurdy, are so fascinating that they attract people even when they aren't making a particularly nice noise: see above. Some, like squeeze boxes, easily fool the player into thinking they're doing a great job, because they are powerful: see above. Pipes, like fiddles, are hard even to get a decent sound from, but then need longer by far to turn that nice noise into music, and nsp's need more precision playing, I feel, than open-ended pipes, because of the very possibility of silence which Jim also mentioned as so important. And on all of these, making real music is then much harder, and tuning and setting up are both of prime importance. (Margaret Watchorn's article in the latest Journal is very much to the point.) On instruments like squeeze boxes it doesn't even occur to many players that adjustments are possible - it's tuned when you buy it, and that's it, sadly. String instruments may be hard to tune, but with the aid of ears.., or sadly, more often now, the electric tuner... they can be put into tune. Smallpipes, like hurdy-gurdies, depend a whole lot on the player to maintain the voice, and to go on doing so, and I suspect they're more demanding of constant attention than most instruments. And that's a skill which a lot of players need more confidence, and help, with. I know when mine sound right, (and thanks, Nigel, they do!!) but despite being very well shown by experts, I'm still not a reed maker, I hesitate to fiddle with a reed in case I make it worse, and I surely hesitate before adjusting a hole with a bit of shellac. And I wouldn't dare take any wood away. And yes, a really good player can make a poorer [insert instrument name here] sound better, and a music-less player is never going to make anything sound wonderful, but I do feel there are too many instruments of all sorts out there - whether harps, gurdies, squeeze boxes, fiddles or smallpipes, sold as a beginner's instrument to people who don't get the reward they deserve for lots of hard work, and may not even realise why. And that does perturb me on their behalf. Dunno if this helps at all. Regards, Richard. On 21/12/2010 11:09, Jim McGillivray wrote: Talking about expression outwith the context of tone, technique and rhythm is like talking about tone as detached from tuning. The most moving performances ar e always a combination of all three. One may play the greatest expression in the world, but if it is on an instrument the is not well tuned, it ain't music. and more of wisdom too, here edited -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Slurs
From John Gibbons or the horrible slurred playing some people go in for I take it this is a very different thing to the slurs in Chris Ormston's Blackbird? Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] technique etcetera
Quote from Anthony Robb: May I suggest picking one tune that really speaks to us but isn't yet inside us (this includes brain, heart and fingers) and devote half our practice time each week to that single tune for 1-6 months (depending on time allocated to practice and complexity of tune). Which do you suggest? This is a great idea. I do practice this way, but not to that degree, spending a few weeks rather a few months on a tune. I also have to concur with Anthony about Jimmy Little. His CD is one of my favorites. I listen to it whenever I want inspiration or insight, or just for the fun of it. There's subtlty in Joe Hutton's playing, which may not be the most technical recorded, that I would love to emulate. Cheers to all for the great discussion. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Richard York wrote a very thoughtful posting ending: And yes, a really good player can make a poorer [insert instrument name here] sound better, and a music-less player is never going to make anything sound wonderful, but I do feel there are too many instruments of all sorts out there - whether harps, gurdies, squeeze boxes, fiddles or smallpipes, sold as a beginner's instrument to people who don't get the reward they deserve for lots of hard work, and may not even realise why. And that does perturb me on their behalf. Dunno if this helps at all. Regards, Richard. Thank you Richard for some calm common sense. I too often take the bait and get stuck in before giving real thought to my relpies. I did make sure that people knew on this occasion if they should be deleting at source so to speak but I give postings the benefit of the doubt, take them seriously and give full replies if I have time. I rose to the bait in a knee-jerk fashion re the Blackbird comparison from John Gibbons. I should have simply replied: don't be daft, I heard Greg's Blackbird 15 years before Chris Ormston's. Was I supposed to think don't be seduced by this music because: a) it is not being played on pipes and b) in 15 years time a Northumbrian piper might offer a (much less interesting) version of it? It would have saved us all, you especially, a huge chunk of time. Warmest best Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Na - keep it up! Far better than a boring silence and complacency :) All this reminds me of a sermon we once heard preached at a massed Morris event, by Father Kenneth Loveless, the concertina (previously owned by Wm Kimber) playing Rector. The essence of it was that Spirit was the most important thing. Without it, we were wasting our time. Keep it up! R. On 21/12/2010 21:01, Anthony Robb wrote: .. It would have saved us all, you especially, a huge chunk of time. Warmest best Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: technique etcetera
Quote from Anthony Robb: May I suggest picking one tune that really speaks to us but isn't yet inside us (this includes brain, heart and fingers) and devote half our practice time each week to that single tune for 1-6 months (depending on time allocated to practice and complexity of tune). Which do you suggest? The first tune I ever did this with was Crooked Bawbee, as suggested by Bill Hume. It worked well for me, I didn't get bored with it. Helen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
