[NSP] Re: Re:
Hi John The forum on the NPS web site is open to all (you just have to register) For some reason it is tucked away on the members page - I think that it should be on the front page! Currently things are a bit quiet but I hope that it will perk up once people try it and like it. It is certanly better for posting pictures, music and the threads are likely to be more coherent. It will only be useful if it is well used. I would like to have the chance to discuss various elements of pipemaking with other makers but unless others make an effort to get involved it will just wither. http://www.northumbrianpipers.org.uk/pipersforum/index.php Adrian's forum is not part of the NPS web site and is really a place for him to discuss his opinions with other like minds. Mike Quoting John Dally dir...@gmail.com: Is this Mike Nelson? If so, hello Mike. Thanks for your efforts with the NPS website. I'm confused. There are two forums on the NPS website. One is for members, and it's difficult to find. The other is Adrian's and it's easy to find. Is this correct? I get the feeling that the members' forum is for ordinary pipers, like me, and Adrian's is for extraordinary pipers, like him, otherwise why would there be two forums? Are they both open to the general public? Many thanks, John On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:03 PM, smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk wrote: And an even better case for posting it on the NPS forum (its open to non members) Quoting Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com: On 1 Jul 2011, at 20:39, david...@pt.lu wrote: How about posting the article here? There are lots of people who are interested but are not NPS members Hi Dave, I think you've made quite a good case here for joining the NPS. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~**wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [NSP] Fwd: Re: [NSP] Re: Re:
Hi Francis, I joined the NPS in 1991 as expat, the magazine was really the only contact I had with piping. Later the problems of payment caused so much hassle I left perhaps 10 years later. I joined the LBPS because they had payment by bankcard and they were more towards musicology, making and development so I personally got more out of it than I did from the NPS. So far in 20 years I have just managed to visit the Chantry once and never any competitions, so, I think from my present standpoint, that I would not really get much from re-joining. I believed that Common Stock had much more content on all aspects of bellows piping, and I have not yet heard of any reason, so far, to make me change my opinion. I am in no way knocking the NPS in any way, I have no idea what it is like !, but I have interests in bellows piping that go in parallel and beyond NSP and its specialized field so for now I remain yours Dave SA (ps their web site is worth a visit though lbps.net) A Francis Wood wrote: On 1 Jul 2011, at 20:39, david...@pt.lu wrote: How about posting the article here? There are lots of people who are interested but are not NPS members Hi Dave, I think you've made quite a good case here for joining the NPS. Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Fwd: Re: [NSP] Re: Re:
Hi Antony, How about posting the article here? There are lots of people who are interested but are not NPS members -- I like the hint of lilt in your playing - always have A regards Dave S Anthony Robb wrote: Hello John That's sounds great. It's exactly the response I was hoping for when I submitted the article on Rants to the NPS Journal. I'd titled the piece Anyone For a Rant? but it was apparently unsuitable and altered without my consent or knowledge to A Bit Of a Rant which rather missed the idea of an invitation to try them. Cheers and every good wish for some enjoyable music making, Anthony --- On Thu, 30/6/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
(Suspicious voice) Hullo, Anyone there? I've got my tin hat on. Any incoming fire? (Normal voice) Attempts at humour on the internet are dangerous and generally misunderstood. I am the vile editor of the NPS Journal who changed the title of Anthony's article without his consent and I have apologized to him privately and will publish a full apology in the next issue. Anthony presented two contributions to the Journal, the rant article coming earlier in the year well before any start had been made on compiling the issue and then later I received, the wonderful interview with Hannah Hutton and Jimmy Little which threw so much light on a particular section of our tradition and together with Hannah's photographs it became a very important part of the Journal. i am sure that Anthony remembers that article going back and forth for correction until we got it as right as possible. While this was going on, I was typesetting the magazine which involves competing influences, to get the content balanced , to get articles starting on the left or right as appropriate, to end up with a multiple of 4 pages, and I thought that there would not be room for Anthony's Rant article, until almost magically as I tidied up all the pages, a space appeared which demanded an article of just about that length. A few font changes... and it was in and I was grateful. I assembled the whole thing, hit the build contents key -- and the contents page didn't reflect the energy contained in the publication. I looked down the contents and felt that Anthony's title did not sit well against the previous title, and (woe is me) I tried changing Anthony's title in what I thought was a subtle and slightly humorous way and the magazine felt more balanced. However, I forgot to seek Anthony's permission. OOps. An editor must not offend his correspondents or the Journal will be empty. So again I apologize for my oversight as I will do in any venue where Anthony raises the point. As to releasing Anthony's article to this list, I will try to post another contribution about copyright, the NPS, and the internet, which I hope will generate some interesting discussion. Barry Say (Editor NPS Journal) Quoting david...@pt.lu: Hi Antony, How about posting the article here? There are lots of people who are interested but are not NPS members -- I like the hint of lilt in your playing - always have A regards Dave S Anthony Robb wrote: Hello John That's sounds great. It's exactly the response I was hoping for when I submitted the article on Rants to the NPS Journal. I'd titled the piece Anyone For a Rant? but it was apparently unsuitable and altered without my consent or knowledge to A Bit Of a Rant which rather missed the idea of an invitation to try them. Cheers and every good wish for some enjoyable music making, Anthony --- On Thu, 30/6/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
On 1 Jul 2011, at 20:39, david...@pt.lu wrote: How about posting the article here? There are lots of people who are interested but are not NPS members Hi Dave, I think you've made quite a good case here for joining the NPS. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
And an even better case for posting it on the NPS forum (its open to non members) Quoting Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com: On 1 Jul 2011, at 20:39, david...@pt.lu wrote: How about posting the article here? There are lots of people who are interested but are not NPS members Hi Dave, I think you've made quite a good case here for joining the NPS. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-Tune of the Month
On 24 May 2011, at 13:12, Richard York wrote: Love and piece indeed... did you have any particular piece in mind this month, Francis? Well, as a matter of fact, yes! The last 'piece' I played was 'Handel's Water Piece', a duet arrangement of Handels 2nd Water Music Suite (the Ouverture), found in Robert Bewick's manuscript tunebooks. Chris Evans and I did that at Oxford Pipeworks on Saturday. Lots of fun to play. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?)
Brass is not gunmetal. With gunmetal, iron oxide forms a thin airtight layer for a while, protecting the metal underneath, at least till proper rust gets going. With brass, the same is not true for copper and its alloys. So corrosion doesn't prevent further corrosion. Further, the verdigris expands, relative to the metal that was there before, so mechanisms can be jammed. And it looks vile as well. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?)
Den 14-01-2011 21:39, [1]gibbonssoi...@aol.com skrev: ..snip With brass, the same is not true for copper and its alloys. So corrosion doesn't prevent further corrosion. Sorry, but I don't quite follow you there. Rust on iron or steel does not prevent further corrosion, but exactly the copper alloys brass and bronze plus pure copper are very well protected by the oxidated layer on the surface. This even works well i a marine environment thus being the reason for all the brasswork that used to be onboard ships. Further, the verdigris expands, relative to the metal that was there before, so mechanisms can be jammed. Yes ! Also the metal oxides accelerates the tendencies of vegetable oils to turn into gum-like snotomers ( he-he, thank's Julia) And it looks vile as well. Depends on the eye of the beholder ;-) But it is also slightly poisonous. Bo A -- References 1. mailto:gibbonssoi...@aol.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?)
I appreciate the anti-corrosion effect of brass regarding seawater but the depth of corrosion required to seal the metal is probably greater than the thickness of most brasswork on a set of pipes. If you ever clean badly corroded brass to get it to look like brass again, you'll find a very pitted surface underneath (I have a large collection of Victorian brass - candlesticks, horse brasses etc) so, by all means leave it green - if you never want it to look smooth and brassy again. Remember that some pipes have ferrules which are not solid metal but are plated - and thin plating at that (maybe NS on brass - the EPNS found on old fruit baskets etc) and, if that corrodes, you are left with patches of brass showing through. By the same token, cleaning them will wear the plating off as well - eventually. Gold fittings won't tarnish (well, people have gold flutes so why not). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Bo Albrechtsen b...@glaipnir.dk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:45 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?) Den 14-01-2011 21:39, [1]gibbonssoi...@aol.com skrev: ..snip With brass, the same is not true for copper and its alloys. So corrosion doesn't prevent further corrosion. Sorry, but I don't quite follow you there. Rust on iron or steel does not prevent further corrosion, but exactly the copper alloys brass and bronze plus pure copper are very well protected by the oxidated layer on the surface. This even works well i a marine environment thus being the reason for all the brasswork that used to be onboard ships. Further, the verdigris expands, relative to the metal that was there before, so mechanisms can be jammed. Yes ! Also the metal oxides accelerates the tendencies of vegetable oils to turn into gum-like snotomers ( he-he, thank's Julia) And it looks vile as well. Depends on the eye of the beholder ;-) But it is also slightly poisonous. Bo A -- References 1. mailto:gibbonssoi...@aol.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?)
On 14 Jan 2011, Colin wrote: Gold fittings won't tarnish (well, people have gold flutes so why not). There are gold-plated sets. The cost, in the current metals market, involves the phrase arm and a leg when compared to silver plate though. Gold plate is also applied much thinner than silver plate (to keep the cost down, presumably). So it might wear through on much used keys for example. It's probably cheaper than a solid silver set right now even so. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?)
My SSP set is gold-plated (no keys) and looks as good as new 15 years on now. My NSP (only a few years old) is silver-plated and also looks as good as new. But the gold really stands out, so if you can afford the extra cost, it's really worthwhile! --Rick On Jan 14, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Julia Say wrote: On 14 Jan 2011, Colin wrote: Gold fittings won't tarnish (well, people have gold flutes so why not). There are gold-plated sets. The cost, in the current metals market, involves the phrase arm and a leg when compared to silver plate though. Gold plate is also applied much thinner than silver plate (to keep the cost down, presumably). So it might wear through on much used keys for example. It's probably cheaper than a solid silver set right now even so. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-conditioning ... (dangers of brass tarnish?)
And gold is amazingly soft, so won't wear well. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [Re: Holy/Holey Halfpenny]
Gibbons, John wrote: Oddly 'Poll Hapenny', an Irish set dance, seems sometimes to appear as Holy Ha'penny (I'll check tonight in Breathnach); - I never thought of this as a personal name but assumed a reference to a 1/2d tax per head...maybe I have an odd way of thinking of things. Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re chanter material.
Dear Peter, Tradition is the name of the game in instrument making where makers are sticking to well tried materials that they know will last two or three generations and will be an investment as with string instruments. When you start to mention computer aided design it is a mistake to think that this will produce perfect instruments especially in repect to NSP's. The input for any programs being used has to come from someone who has had a lifetime's experience to start with and then variables such as the reeds, the type of bag being used and the ambient playing conditions can all knock things sideways. Colin R -Original Message- From: P DUNN p.dun...@btinternet.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:41 Subject: [NSP] re chanter material. I've been following with interest, the string regarding chanters/drones made from non-wood materials. My first clarinet, a 'cheapish' Boosey and Hawkes was made from a plastic material. My second, and much more expensive, was made from African Blackwood. I notice the positive remarks that ivory seems to get with regard to tone. Am I completely wrong to assume that the very qualities that ivory possesses, e.g. hardness and impermeability, are shared by some of the man-made materials that have been mentioned? Interesting that the more expensive woodwind instruments seem to shun such materials. At some time in the future, might this mean that chanters and drones could be produced using computer-aided programs (I believe someone has or could produce such a program) and would this mean an end to tuning problems, whether caused by some of the holes being slightly mis-placed or by temperature fluctuations, and other such-like problems associated with a naturally made product? I suppose the downside (or upside, depending on one's point of view)) would be instruments which didn't display any maker's idiosyncrasies. Just a thought! Peter Dunn __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4462 (20090927) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. [1]http://www.eset.com -- References 1. http://www.eset.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re composing
the cliff car park at beer - devon written many a tune 2009/8/12 P DUNN [1]p.dun...@btinternet.com Thank you Richard for introducing a non-contentious topic!! Definitely whilst walking for me. I can recommend the walk from Lordenshaws car park to the forestry commission car park, then following the red route up to Simonside, over the top and back down to Lordenshaws. By the time I reach Little Church Rock, something is bubbling away! Regards, Peter. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:p.dun...@btinternet.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re transposition
or at least what I thought was the easy option and eventually came round full circle and did them (and still do them) in long hand. Thank you, Michael, for this info. I've always got the impression that all this Midi, Abc, Sibelius stuff is probably more laborious than long hand. You've saved me time and expense! What was good enough for Beethoven and Tom Clough is good enough for me. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re transposition
I've always got the impression that all this Midi, Abc, Sibelius stuff is probably more laborious than long hand. With all these programs, the laboriousness depends entirely on how practised you are. I know from experience that ABC allows you to enter stuff at great speed and the printed result is of course much nicer than 99.999% of people's handwriting. What was good enough for Beethoven and Tom Clough is good enough for me. Errr.sorry, could you speak up a bit? Cheers, Paul Gretton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re transposition
Ah yes, taking the plunge in the first place. Though, Michael Dillon said he has sucked them and seen. Maybe it's a personal temperament/aesthetic thing. Like fact that we're playing pipes and fiddles rather than synthesisers or riding choppers rather than Goldwings. Errr.sorry, could you speak up a bit? Beg pardon? Will this wind be so mighty To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re transposition
the other option is to memorise the tune and then try playing it but starting a note lower down, trusting your ears and fingers. you might not even need to write the tune out at all. 2009/8/3 christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Ah yes, taking the plunge in the first place. Though, Michael Dillon said he has sucked them and seen. Maybe it's a personal temperament/aesthetic thing. Like fact that we're playing pipes and fiddles rather than synthesisers or riding choppers rather than Goldwings. Errr.sorry, could you speak up a bit? Beg pardon? Will this wind be so mighty To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Consumerism has taken the identity of feminism and is using it to sell sexism back to women. -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Hello Philip All That certainly livened things up a bit! Can I make it clear that I'm in favour of bounce and lift however it is achieved. With regard to the idea that tunes have to be played faster for dancing, we come back to the point that an up-tempo reel in other traditions becomes a slower bouncy rant in Northumberland. Try doing Hesleyside Reel as a full on reel and the music vanishes; slow it down and give it bounce a beautiful; and not just for dancing! Coming back to Dick's point about ear training can I blow my own trumpet a bit and tell a wee story from the last Darlington Folkworks Workout 4 or 5 years ago. Scene: dance, band: scratch (consisting of 3 fiddles + piano). Robin Dunn had gone through the dance and told the other two fiddlers Stewart Hardy me the three tunes to play a each twice through. The first two tunes were fine, the third tune was not only not the one mentioned but also completely new to the rest of us. It worked somehow and the band carried on till the end, the dancers were appreciative and returned to their seats. When asked what the third tune was, Robin said he hadn't a clue - he'd forgotten the tune he was going to play and set off making a new tune up as he went along. Stewart I played notes that seemed to fit and when the dancers were told what had happened voiced disbelief then gave us a standing ovation. By all means use dots but also listen, listen and listen again; you know it'll do you good. As aye Anthony --- On Thu, 11/6/09, Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net wrote: From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net Subject: [NSP] Re: re notes v. ear To: Dartmouth N.S.P. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, 11 June, 2009, 12:33 AM Can I just say, with particular reference to Richard's last post, that I am in no way claiming any superiority for the classically-trained position. Reading my post again, it looks a bit as if I am. I enormously admire all those who play mostly by ear. I think on the whole they are better musicians than me - but I just wanted to defend those of us who play best from the written music against the charge of alway and inevitably playing without any life and expression. Communication with listeners is always best without the music-stand in the way, of course. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
I'm not an artist, but my wife is, and she swears by a book called Drawing on the right side of the brain. The premise is that the two halves of the brain work in different ways. The left side (and I may have got this garbled, correct me if I'm wrong) is analytical and logical, and the right side is intuitive. Drawing effectively doesn't need the analytical bit of our brain, but the other. And some people naturally tend one way, some the other. But either way, techniques for using the right part of the brain can be learned. I wonder if the same applies to this issue of playing by ear/learning from notes. As a highly analytical and logical computer programmer, I would expect that I naturally approach things with the left side of the brain, and I can't play by ear to save my life. This is a considerable frustration, and I realise it makes me a second class citizen in the traditional music world. There are a few tunes I have learned by heart (from music) and I can now play without; but if I don't play them on a regular basis, I forget them, and there's only a limited number of tunes one can play through regularly. But it's worse than that. I clearly remember one session in Hexham when someone suggested a tune that I knew without music, and regularly played. Great! I thought, I don't need to go scrabbling to find this in the tune book and come in after everyone else has already started. After the first couple of bars, I lost my way, and didn't find it again till the tune was finished. So now, even if it's a tune I know without music, if I'm in company, I find the dots just for reference if I need it. But I think the ability to play by ear is somehow buried somewhere in the other side of the brain if I could just learn how to access it. Sometimes I can be playing a tune (on my own, from the music) and my eyes lose track of the place in the music. But sometimes I can continue, if it's a tune I know well, for several bars, before my eyes get the right place again. If someone were to write a book on 'playing music on the right side of the brain' I'd be a customer. Chris Harris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
When teaching an evening class on playing traditional music a while back, I was determined to get the dots only players to play by ear, visa versa too, so they all had the benefit of both techniques. Most seemed to find it useful. So after some weeks of working up to it, and following John Kirkpatrick's writing on improvising within a tune when that half of the brain takes over, I set us to play the same tune for 25 minutes and see what happened to it. Most people hugely enjoyed it. One unrepentant dots-only player was really quite angry with me. Apparently I'd just made him read the same 32 bars around 20 times, and he was still having to read every single dot at the end of it, and he was bored out of his skull. And he still couldn't, or wouldn't, play it without the dots, in case he got a note wrong. After reading your post, Chris, I find I have a bit more sympathy for him than I had, inwardly, at the time! Richard. ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: But it's worse than that. I clearly remember one session in Hexham when someone suggested a tune that I knew without music, and regularly played. Great! I thought, I don't need to go scrabbling to find this in the tune book and come in after everyone else has already started. After the first couple of bars, I lost my way, and didn't find it again till the tune was finished. So now, even if it's a tune I know without music, if I'm in company, I find the dots just for reference if I need it. But I think the ability to play by ear is somehow buried somewhere in the other side of the brain if I could just learn how to access it. Sometimes I can be playing a tune (on my own, from the music) and my eyes lose track of the place in the music. But sometimes I can continue, if it's a tune I know well, for several bars, before my eyes get the right place again. If someone were to write a book on 'playing music on the right side of the brain' I'd be a customer. Chris Harris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Philip Gruar wrote: Can I just say, with particular reference to Richard's last post, that I am in no way claiming any superiority for the classically-trained position. Reading my post again, it looks a bit as if I am. I didn't read that into it at all- it was just a comment by me on my own lack of a specific skill set! Richard -- Richard Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Hello Chris I think you have made some excellent points but we all have similar experiences of knowing a tune and then, in a new context, it goes awol. I'd reached a reasonable standard and had learnt all of my tunes by ear when I had my first few tunes with Will Atkinson in his cottage at Glen Aln in1977. Simple hornpipes like Redesdale and Friendly Visit deserted me despite having learnt played them (without dots) for years. Looking back, what thew me was his style of phrasing which I'd not really come up against down on Tyneside. A few hundreths of a second added to or taken off a note can make all the difference to how well we are able to fit in with it. If it was a Tap Spile session you were talking about then it was probably David Oliver leading it and he too feels the music differently to other people. Trust me it is just a matter of time and listening to the different (music) accents out there. There's a tale I heard recently of Hannah Hutton and Fred Jordan at a festival. They had breakfast together everyday for a week and at the end of it Fred commented what a lovely lady Hannah was and how she was full of tales and chat at the beakfast table but at the end of it he admitted he hadn't understood a single word of what she had said all week! The same happens in music. Listen and get used to different styles so you are able to sing them in your head and you'll be more than halfway there. Anthony --- On Thu, 11/6/09, ch...@harris405.plus.com ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: From: ch...@harris405.plus.com ch...@harris405.plus.com Subject: [NSP] Re: re notes v. ear To: Dartmouth N.S.P. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, 11 June, 2009, 8:03 AM I'm not an artist, but my wife is, and she swears by a book called Drawing on the right side of the brain. The premise is that the two halves of the brain work in different ways. The left side (and I may have got this garbled, correct me if I'm wrong) is analytical and logical, and the right side is intuitive. Drawing effectively doesn't need the analytical bit of our brain, but the other. And some people naturally tend one way, some the other. But either way, techniques for using the right part of the brain can be learned. I wonder if the same applies to this issue of playing by ear/learning from notes. As a highly analytical and logical computer programmer, I would expect that I naturally approach things with the left side of the brain, and I can't play by ear to save my life. This is a considerable frustration, and I realise it makes me a second class citizen in the traditional music world. There are a few tunes I have learned by heart (from music) and I can now play without; but if I don't play them on a regular basis, I forget them, and there's only a limited number of tunes one can play through regularly. But it's worse than that. I clearly remember one session in Hexham when someone suggested a tune that I knew without music, and regularly played. Great! I thought, I don't need to go scrabbling to find this in the tune book and come in after everyone else has already started. After the first couple of bars, I lost my way, and didn't find it again till the tune was finished. So now, even if it's a tune I know without music, if I'm in company, I find the dots just for reference if I need it. But I think the ability to play by ear is somehow buried somewhere in the other side of the brain if I could just learn how to access it. Sometimes I can be playing a tune (on my own, from the music) and my eyes lose track of the place in the music. But sometimes I can continue, if it's a tune I know well, for several bars, before my eyes get the right place again. If someone were to write a book on 'playing music on the right side of the brain' I'd be a customer. Chris Harris To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
On 6/11/09, anth...@robbpipes.com anth...@robbpipes.com wrote: When asked what the third tune was, Robin said he hadn't a clue - he'd forgotten the tune he was going to play and set off making a new tune up as he went along. This has happened on several occasions with Border Directors, as Chris would testify if he were still amang us. It's simply down to experience and musicianship on the plus side, and losing the plot on the minus side! The band keep going, following the twit (me) who's making it up as he goes along, and it is great fun, and no big deal in the scheme of things (unless a remarkable new tune were to emerge). Returning to ear/dots, specifically for learning - a/ it's normal musicianship to be able to do both (may we aspire to normality and have compassion for our own and others' shortcomings) b/ they are both a means to an end and neither should be mistaken for the end, which is to learn the tune c/ learning - thoroughly assimilating and internalising - a tune is IMHO a prerequisite for playing it with conviction, and also a necessary preparation for those occasions when a door opens (to the right side of the brain? to inspiration?) and some extra juice becomes available to do something NEW with it d/ workshop conditions are a relatively artificial environment for learning, whether by ear or dots. As a punter at a workshop I can pick up a tune either way, but unless it's relevant to me it soon fades, as the ones I already know are taking up the available storage. e/ if I'm the person running the workshop I aim not to make it primarily a tune-acquisition exercise but to use tunes (via dots/ear or already learnt) to explore aspects of musicianship which relate to traditional music To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Richard Evans wrote: Philip Gruar wrote: I'm sure everybody with a so-called classical music training here (and jazz or whatever) - i.e. anyone for whom the purely mechanical act of reading written music is completely second nature, does the reading without consciously thinking about doing it. This is the basis of my problem of course- no formal musical training whatsoever! Too late now methinks. Cheers Richard Hi -- one or two cents worth, No one has so far mention the fact that classical musicians usually have an ally waving a stick and hands giving them the colour, speeds and breathing life into the piece they are playing -- namely his interpretation of what the COMPOSER wished to convey from the dots, with all its' written dynamics - sadly unavailable on most bagpipes - so stop trying to put down one side or the other, we have, do and will continue to have two separate methodologies-- they both have a valid raison d'etre both supply a much needed service and occasionally one or the other crosses over and makes a splash Vive la difference vive la musique Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Dave S wrote: No one has so far mention the fact that classical musicians usually have an ally waving a stick and hands giving them the colour, speeds and breathing life into the piece they are playing -- namely his interpretation of what the COMPOSER wished to convey from the dots, with all its' written dynamics - sadly unavailable on most bagpipes - so stop trying to put down one side or the other, we have, do and will continue to have two separate methodologies-- they both have a valid raison d'etre both supply a much needed service and occasionally one or the other crosses over and makes a splash You only get a conductor with orchestras. Classical musicians also play solo, and in duets, trios, quartets etc. etc. and they work together without following one person's interpretation - even some small orchestras who e.g. specialise in baroque music, don't have a conductor, rely just on a leader maybe playing harpsichord or violin, but mainly on everyone's understanding of the style. Also, a lot of music doesn't have much, or anything at all, in the way of dynamics, or written phrasing etc. This also depends on the players' being thoroughly immersed in the style of the music they are playing, so when reading the dots it comes out right. I guess that's the key to the whole debate. No-one can play traditional music just from the dots alone, with no experience of hearing the style, (or styles, of course) and really getting into it and feeling it. The same applies to jazz and baroque music, especially French-style baroque, just to give two examples. I'm certainly not trying to put down one side or the other, Dave, and I'm sure no-one else is. All I'm trying to say is that it should be possible to play traditional music really well while still using the written notes as a basis for negotiation and necessary help to the memory. But of course you need to have listened to it a lot first - and naturally listen while you are reading too! I'm looking forward to Dick's experiment - I THINK I know what you're doing, Dick, but will probably get a shock when you tell us! Looking at Dick's website, and listening to his playing - there's an example of what the cross-over between classical and folk can achieve. Another of my favourite musicians, Alastair Fraser, has recorded similar things to Dick, with elaborately composed interpretations and development of the Scottish Highland fiddle tradition. I was at a workshop led by him once, where he was illustrating the fiddler's way of improvising and continuing endlessly with rhythmic dance support - very much like Anthony and Matt have been describing. That's enough theorising - I must get back to finishing someone's chanter. (You know who you are!) I need to play a bit more too! cheers, Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Here here! I was hesitating about saying exactly the same thing, only you put it better than I could. Cheers, Richard Philip Gruar wrote: I think Peter makes just the point here that I was going to make, when Anthony (I think) first started the debate. Also, Dick made very good points. The flatness and mechanical playing problems which many people perceive with playing from dots is only inevitable for people who struggle with the reading, and those who think that the dots represent *exactly* how music should be played. Only a computer plays music exactly as written - good musicians will always lengthen/shorten certain notes, pull the rhythm around subtly and put life expression into the music as they read it. I'm sure everybody with a so-called classical music training here (and jazz or whatever) - i.e. anyone for whom the purely mechanical act of reading written music is completely second nature, does the reading without consciously thinking about doing it. Playing the music sensitively, with the right style or expression or whatever, is what you do with it on top of the reading so to speak - well or less well depending on your musicianship and understanding of the music. People who do jazz or early music maybe depart from the written notes more than main-stream classical players do - but all competent musicians would surely reject idea that reading inevitably leads to flatness. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Can I just say, with particular reference to Richard's last post, that I am in no way claiming any superiority for the classically-trained position. Reading my post again, it looks a bit as if I am. I enormously admire all those who play mostly by ear. I think on the whole they are better musicians than me - but I just wanted to defend those of us who play best from the written music against the charge of alway and inevitably playing without any life and expression. Communication with listeners is always best without the music-stand in the way, of course. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
David Baker wrote: Had it not been for certain groups of musicians breaking the rules because what resulted sounded good to them, the only style of trumpet playing would be baroque, and jazz would not exist (to give but one example). Hmmm...that is a very interesting take on the history of music, ignoring entirely the invention of valves (which allowed the trumpet to play in any key and to play diatonically and chromatically in the low and middle registers for the first time); the end of the trumpet guild system; the development of the brass band; the rise of mass production through industrialisation (which made instruments much cheaper); the influence of African music in New Orleans; and the overall gigantic changes that took place in Western music between the baroque period and the rise of jazz. Oh yes, and also the fact that jazz existed long before jazzers started to use the trumpet (Armstrong started on the cornet, for example). I'm afraid it wasn't all just a matter of some cool dudes audaciously deciding to break the rules. But don't let me rigidly cramp your musicological style! I don't think it fair to call any style of playing any instrument 'incorrect' simply because it does not adhere rigidly to tradition ... I would hope the NSP community was receptive to the efforts of young players (I hope at 22 I can still call myself one) expressing themselves through their chosen instrument and working hard in order to do so. If not, this 'tradition' is indeed in real danger of dying out. The trouble, though, is that traditions can get hijacked in a way that takes them far away from the essential nature of the music, so that someone's let-it-all-hang-out-baby self-expression comes to dominate. And with modern media, public funding, and publicity, the new style then takes over and the traditional one is forgotten. Cheers, Mister Nasty (using Paul Gretton's computer) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
I don't think it fair to call any style of playing any instrument 'incorrect' simply because it does not adhere rigidly to tradition. Here we go again! FWIW: I a) value the tradition (and the baroque) and b) agree wholeheartedly with the above statement. I play various instruments in various styles. Why should NSP be the only instrument restricted to a single style? Kreisler any one? Or Stuff Smith? Or Andrew Manze? Didier Lockwood? Gatemouth? Grappelly? Itzhak Perlman? Willie Taylor? I wish I knew who was playing properly... chirs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
Do you think math teachers are unfair for calling answers wrong? I'm sorry, but this is frankly silly. Proving things write or rongue is what maths is about. Something may be wrong when playing a given style music (like playing jazz as if it was classical and vice versa) but describing a style as wrong in itself can only be regarded as narrow-mindedness - can't it? c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
Chirs wrote: Why should NSP be the only instrument restricted to a single style? The should is not a matter of authoritarian compulsion or hidebound conservatism but of appropriateness. Unlike the violin, the NSP has until very recently been associated with a very specific repertoire, the core of which is bound up with the structure of the instrument -- a sort of chicken/egg situation. As I said in reply to David, the problem with wild do-your-own-thing innovation is that the innovative style takes over and the traditional style is then lost. Kreisler any one? Or Stuff Smith? Or Andrew Manze? Didier Lockwood? Gatemouth? Grappelly? Itzhak Perlman? Willie Taylor? I wish I knew who was playing properly... It's confusing to speak of style here. All those people play the violin but they play different ***repertoires*** without overlap between them (with a couple of exceptions). Those repertoires require a certain style bandwidth if they are to be true to the nature of the music. I doubt if Manze would tackle the Tchaikovsky concerto on his baroque violin and in baroque style. Perlman, however, would probalby tackle a Handel or Corelli sonata, with IMHO dire results that distort the nature of the music. Or -- since you're about to become an opera buff :-) -- I would prefer to hear Isolde sung by Flagstad or Nilsson rather than by Emma Kirkby! (and vice versa for Rameau or Lully) Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu [mailto:christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu] Sent: 14 April 2009 10:51 To: davidthba...@googlemail.com; ch...@chrisormston.com Cc: rosspi...@aol.com; lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: I don't think it fair to call any style of playing any instrument 'incorrect' simply because it does not adhere rigidly to tradition. Here we go again! FWIW: I a) value the tradition (and the baroque) and b) agree wholeheartedly with the above statement. I play various instruments in various styles. Why should NSP be the only instrument restricted to a single style? Kreisler any one? Or Stuff Smith? Or Andrew Manze? Didier Lockwood? Gatemouth? Grappelly? Itzhak Perlman? Willie Taylor? I wish I knew who was playing properly... chirs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
But Chris, we're not talking about styles at all. We're talking about something more simple than that, just learning to control the instrument. Or do you consider playing well a different style of playing than playing sloppily? Whether you play the traditional tunes or rock and roll is something that can get people rather worked up, but that's not what the discussion is. I sometimes think of this in terms of language. Different languages require you to make different sounds. If you don't learn to make the sounds first, you can't make the words, and if you can't make the words, you can't make the phrases, etc. --Rick On Apr 14, 2009, at 5:05 AM, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Do you think math teachers are unfair for calling answers wrong? I'm sorry, but this is frankly silly. Proving things write or rongue is what maths is about. Something may be wrong when playing a given style music (like playing jazz as if it was classical and vice versa) but describing a style as wrong in itself can only be regarded as narrow-mindedness - can't it? c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself. Im brilliant and Kathryn Tickell has high hopes for me. Some of you may be aware of this 14 year old precocious nay dillousional child. This is the child who has been repeatedly given feedback by pipers who ARE brilliant and has ignored it; year on year she has had the same feedback yet listening to the video attached to the article is still ignoring it. Chris Ormston Adrian Schofield have both given this girl advice but clearly she feels she knows better than those who are recognised by us all as true masters of the pipes. This girl has a long,long way to go before she can claim to be brilliant. The comments of her mother (the typical pushy mother) show where the girl gets it from - Jessicas mum Catherine Lamb, 42, a nursery nurse, said: As soon as Jessica picked up the Northumbrian pipes she was a little genius. She could play a tune straight away. We just knew she was going to be fantastic at it, she was a natural. The absurdity of the whole article is summed up by the papers suggestion that the northumbrian pipes were an unknown instrument until K Tickell came on the scene..sums up their naiivety really! [1]http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2009/04/11/ schoolgirl-piper-jessica-a-star-in-the-making-61634-23362451/ LR __ Share your photos with Windows Live Photos Free. [2]Try it Now! -- References 1. http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2009/04/11/sch oolgirl-piper-jessica-a-star-in-the-making-61634-23362451/ 2. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Windows Live Messenger just got better. [1]Find out more! -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665230/direct/01/
[NSP] Re: Re:
Just a tiny question, Lisa. You don't happen to have a child of your own who enters NSP competitions, do you? Just curious. Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: lisa ridley [mailto:lisaridley6...@hotmail.com] Sent: 13 April 2009 11:45 To: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz; pipers list Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself. Im brilliant and Kathryn Tickell has high hopes for me. Some of you may be aware of this 14 year old precocious nay dillousional child. This is the child who has been repeatedly given feedback by pipers who ARE brilliant and has ignored it; year on year she has had the same feedback yet listening to the video attached to the article is still ignoring it. Chris Ormston Adrian Schofield have both given this girl advice but clearly she feels she knows better than those who are recognised by us all as true masters of the pipes. This girl has a long,long way to go before she can claim to be brilliant. The comments of her mother (the typical pushy mother) show where the girl gets it from - Jessicas mum Catherine Lamb, 42, a nursery nurse, said: As soon as Jessica picked up the Northumbrian pipes she was a little genius. She could play a tune straight away. We just knew she was going to be fantastic at it, she was a natural. The absurdity of the whole article is summed up by the papers suggestion that the northumbrian pipes were an unknown instrument until K Tickell came on the scene..sums up their naiivety really! [1]http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2009/04/11/ schoolgirl-piper-jessica-a-star-in-the-making-61634-23362451/ LR __ Share your photos with Windows Live Photos Free. [2]Try it Now! -- References 1. http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2009/04/11/sch oolgirl-piper-jessica-a-star-in-the-making-61634-23362451/ 2. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Windows Live Messenger just got better. [1]Find out more! -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665230/direct/01/
[NSP] Re: Re:
On 4/13/09, Ian Lawther irlawt...@comcast.net wrote: ... Session A7 among many others. I think you mean Session A9 Ian. Session A7 is me and Bill Telfer, and we rock. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
Matt Seattle wrote: I think you mean Session A9 Ian. Session A7 is me and Bill Telfer, and we rock My mistake Matt - but then you too are a kid from Kent (and more precisely I think you and Tim Edey are both native to the Planet Thanet) Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
My mistake Matt - but then you too are a kid from Kent (and more precisely I think you and Tim Edey are both native to the Planet Thanet) 'Tis true, sir (along with Tracy Emin Edward Heath), though my genes are from elsewhere. As are my jeans. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
I've heard better (most of you) and worse (I do listen to myself, after all). While I realise that many of you will know her and have heard her play for real, that Youtube recording is such bad quality I think my dog would have sounded better. Are we suggesting that she is (a) a bad musician, (b) she doesn't play the pipes in the correct manner - ie as they were designed to be played, (c) she does her own thing with them as some others do (ie not traditional)? I'd ignore mother's comments. I have yet to hear a mother say anything adverse about their child - even if they are really BAD. You kid is always a genius - it comes with parenthood :) I'm presuming, from the comments made, that, although she has been given good advice she has chosen to ignore it (rather than not be adept enough to follow it) and, consequently, been marked down at competition level and play as she thinks fit (reminds me of comments passed on someone else mentioned in the same article). Excuse the silly questions but, living as a hermit on a small, isolated mountain and not having had contact with another piper for some time, I sometimes worry about the vehemence which greets some players at times. It is worrying when some pipers seem to get all the publicity - especially when they are more out of the main stream - but maybe these pipers (because they are doing their own thing) seek it out more to get their style more widely recognised? Certainly, here in the NW, very few people are aware of the NSP but those that are generally know only one name. I have to agree with Helen that, on a public list, it can sound like sour grapes (I know it's not so don't shout). Yes, there very pushy parents and they often do their children no good at all as they make enemies and won't take any criticism of their wonder child - to the detriment of the child, of course. Alas, the general public go by what they hear and pay little attention to the skills that should be there (musically speaking - remember Roy Castle playing the hosepipe and the response he got?). The general public just isn't aware of what should be done and what shouldn't. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz; pipers list nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself. Im brilliant and Kathryn Tickell has high hopes for me. Some of you may be aware of this 14 year old precocious nay dillousional child. This is the child who has been repeatedly given feedback by pipers who ARE brilliant and has ignored it; year on year she has had the same feedback yet listening to the video attached to the article is still ignoring it. Chris Ormston Adrian Schofield have both given this girl advice but clearly she feels she knows better than those who are recognised by us all as true masters of the pipes. This girl has a long,long way to go before she can claim to be brilliant. The comments of her mother (the typical pushy mother) show where the girl gets
[NSP] Re: Re:
Quite. Shouting at the referee may not be unusual in a football match but in a musical competition anything equivalent is certainly unacceptable. I was present at both recent Bellingham competitions and thought that the judging was extremely well conducted and immaculately fair in fairly adverse circumstances. Difficult behaviour from is individuals accompanying a particular entrant presents a problem for competition stewards too. Usually there is only one individual, and despite their best efforts this may be insufficient to deal with an intrusive problem affecting the progress of the competition. Judges who have to make rapid, thoughtful and fair decisions are entitled to do so without harassment or intrusion. Perhaps competition rules need to take into account that under certain circumstances it is impossible to fairly award a competition place to a particular contestant. I am posing this as a question rather than a suggestion since I have never been in this difficult position. For those who already have, I have nothing but admiration. Francis On 13 Apr 2009, at 17:07, Chris Ormston wrote: Andy May, Pauline Cato and I were discussing competitions at the Whitley Bay residential course last year, and we concluded that judging - a thankless task in the best of circumstances - had become something of a poisoned chalice at Bellingham, for the reasons already stated. If it is unfair to criticise a child on this forum, maybe attention should focus instead on those who put her in this position - relatives, her tutor. As a competition judge one strives to be supportive while maintaining the standards of piping one would expect in open competitions. Constant hassle from individuals accompanying a particular entrant will not affect the outcome of the competition and is not acceptable. What might influence the outcome of future competitions, though, would be for the entrant to take heed of the judge's advice. One finger off at a time would be a good start. I look forward to the next broadcast of Britain's Got Talent with even more trepidation than usual :-( Chris -Original Message- From: lisa ridley [mailto:lisaridley6...@hotmail.com] Sent: 13 April 2009 10:45 To: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz; pipers list Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself. Im brilliant and Kathryn Tickell has high hopes for me. Some of you may be aware of this 14 year old precocious nay dillousional child. This is the child who has been repeatedly given feedback by pipers who ARE brilliant and has ignored it; year on year she has had the same feedback yet listening to the video attached to the article is still ignoring it. Chris Ormston Adrian Schofield have both given this girl advice but clearly she feels she knows better than those who are recognised by us all as true masters of the pipes. This girl has a long,long way to go before she can claim to be brilliant. The comments of her mother (the typical pushy mother) show where the girl gets it from - Jessicas mum Catherine Lamb, 42, a nursery nurse, said: As soon as Jessica picked up the Northumbrian pipes she
[NSP] Re: Re:
Beware of the press. The same article had Katherine pictured in her usual langorous pose which even she might be getting a bit sick of by now. Whatever might be said of her and her style of piping you cannot deny she has ability in her fingering and compositional talents and if she keeps it up will be an asset to Northumbrian piping even if she does lift off more than one finger at a time and plays flat fingered. With Alice Burns she is providing the sound of the NPS on the Folk orchestra at a high level of performance. Colin Ross -Original Message- From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: i...@gretton-willems.com; pipers list nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:40 Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: No I do not - curiousity sattisfied? My thoughts and concerns lie with the ridicule facing Northumbrian piping and the child herself as a consequence of publicity and unheeded advice. Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:05:00 +0200 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: i...@gretton-willems.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Just a tiny question, Lisa. You don't happen to have a child of your own who enters NSP competitions, do you? Just curious. Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: lisa ridley [mailto:lisaridley6...@hotmail.com] Sent: 13 April 2009 11:45 To: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz; pipers list Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself. Im brilliant and Kathryn Tickell has high hopes for me. Some of you may be aware of this 14 year old precocious nay dillousional child. This is the child who has been repeatedly given feedback by pipers who ARE brilliant and has ignored it; year on year she has had the same feedback yet listening to the video attached to the article is still ignoring it. Chris Ormston Adrian Schofield have both given this girl advice but clearly she feels she knows better than those who are recognised by us all as true masters of the pipes. This girl has a long,long way to go before she can claim to be brilliant. The comments of her mother (the typical pushy mother) show where the girl gets it from - Jessicas mum Catherine Lamb, 42, a nursery nurse, said: As soon as Jessica picked up the Northumbrian pipes she was a little genius. She could play a tune straight away. We just knew she was going to be fantastic at it, she was a natural. The absurdity of the whole article is summed up by the papers suggestion that the northumbrian pipes were an unknown instrument until K Tickell came on the scene..sums up their naiivety really! [1]http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2009/04/11/ schoolgirl-piper-jessica-a-star-in-the-making-61634-23362451/ LR __ Share your photos
[NSP] Re: Re:
David, Are you also opposed to giving out grades in school, as it might traumatize or hinder the creativity of those who march to a different drummer? Do you think math teachers are unfair for calling answers wrong? --Rick On Apr 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, David Baker wrote: Though I may not be able to offer much in the way of piping experience as yet, I don't think it fair to call any style of playing any instrument 'incorrect' simply because it does not adhere rigidly to tradition. I play the trumpet as well as the NSP. Had it not been for certain groups of musicians breaking the rules because what resulted sounded good to them, the only style of trumpet playing would be baroque, and jazz would not exist (to give but one example). I would hope the NSP community was receptive to the efforts of young players (I hope at 22 I can still call myself one) expressing themselves through their chosen instrument and working hard in order to do so. If not, this 'tradition' is indeed in real danger of dying out. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Re:
Dear all, Though I may not be able to offer much in the way of piping experience as yet, I don't think it fair to call any style of playing any instrument 'incorrect' simply because it does not adhere rigidly to tradition. I play the trumpet as well as the NSP. Had it not been for certain groups of musicians breaking the rules because what resulted sounded good to them, the only style of trumpet playing would be baroque, and jazz would not exist (to give but one example). I would hope the NSP community was receptive to the efforts of young players (I hope at 22 I can still call myself one) expressing themselves through their chosen instrument and working hard in order to do so. If not, this 'tradition' is indeed in real danger of dying out. Best regards, David Baker 2009/4/13 Chris Ormston [1]ch...@chrisormston.com Colin, I beg to differ, for reasons I've stated here and elsewhere on numerous occasions. The traditional style of piping is being butchered by this new, Max Clifford approach to the music. Chris -Original Message- From: [2]rosspi...@aol.com [mailto:[3]rosspi...@aol.com] Sent: 13 April 2009 18:49 To: [4]lisaridley6...@hotmail.com Cc: [5]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Beware of the press. The same article had Katherine pictured in her usual langorous pose which even she might be getting a bit sick of by now. Whatever might be said of her and her style of piping you cannot deny she has ability in her fingering and compositional talents and if she keeps it up will be an asset to Northumbrian piping even if she does lift off more than one finger at a time and plays flat fingered. With Alice Burns she is providing the sound of the NPS on the Folk orchestra at a high level of performance. Colin Ross -Original Message- From: lisa ridley [6]lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: [7]i...@gretton-willems.com; pipers list [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:40 Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: No I do not - curiousity sattisfied? My thoughts and concerns lie with the ridicule facing Northumbrian piping and the child herself as a consequence of publicity and unheeded advice. Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:05:00 +0200 To: [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [10]i...@gretton-willems.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Just a tiny question, Lisa. You don't happen to have a child of your own who enters NSP competitions, do you? Just curious. Cheers, Paul Gretton -Original Message- From: lisa ridley [mailto:[11]lisaridley6...@hotmail.com] Sent: 13 April 2009 11:45 To: [12]helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz; pipers list Subject: [NSP] Re: Re: Apologies, I was under the impression that the pipers list was a forum for self expression and discussion. I was not aware there was a required censorship in case the truth about these pretenders reaches the public domain. The Newcastle Journal is a publication with a weekly circulation of 289 000, and hence a VERY public forum, and I doubt this reporter stumbled upon this story herself but rather that it was fed to her. The Bellingham show is also a public event and I have witnessed first hand the attempts by the child's family to compromise the integrity of the competition by niggling at the judges and making loud stage whispers from the audience you were the best - you would have won if it he (Chris Ormston) hadn't been judging. I'm told that Adrian Schofield was given an even more torrid time the previous year. Such behaviour is not worthy of our support. LR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:48:33 +1200 To: [13]lisaridley6...@hotmail.com; [14]...@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [15]helen.ca...@paradise.net.nz Subject: [NSP] Re: I have often been misquoted in the press, to my embarrassment. I think we need to be very careful not to be seen to be unsupportive in the public eye, and this is after all a relatively public list. Helen - Original Message - From: lisa ridley [16]lisaridley6...@hotmail.com To: [17]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:59 AM I'd like to share with you all some quotes from an article in the Newcastle Journal newspaper about Jessica Lamb. The paper has an article entitled school girl piper Jessica a star in the making I picked them up and within no time at all I was playing a tune. I could play by ear and I just took to them straight away. From there I got better and better and now Im so proud of myself
[NSP] Re: Re:
On 13 Apr 2009, Chris Ormston wrote: Andy May, Pauline Cato and I were discussing competitions at the Whitley Bay residential course last year, and we concluded that judging - a thankless task in the best of circumstances. Well I for one am extremely grateful for the positive and helpful comments by many judges over a number of years, certainly including the three mentioned. Not every judgeone soon learns to be strategically absent or indisposed at particular events. As a competition judge one strives to be supportive while maintaining the standards of piping one would expect in open competitions. Perhaps that sentence should be required reading by a very few of those asked to judge. Except that the ones who need to read it probably wouldn't, unfortunately. Constant hassle from individuals accompanying a particular entrant will not affect the outcome of the competition and is not acceptable. Hassling judges would be best dealt with by either evicting the person (politely) from the venue, or possibly by disqualifying the entrant (after warning the perpetrator) in persistent cases. In my view. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re written music
With regard to the Tom Anderson quote, Never try to learn a tune you don't already know, as posted by Christopher Birch, Just for the record, I was referring to a previous posting by Colin Ross, in which he wrote: It has already attracted criticism from one of our pipers who is 'deeply disappointed' that the CD is not with the book as originally planned and who thinks that it will do real damage to what is essentially an oral tradition. He quotes the late Tom Anderson of Shetland who 'rightly' said 'Never try to learn a tune you don't already know'. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re manometer
This what I use and I have been quite happy with it. It's range covers that of most bagpipes of all types. http://www.hvactool.com/catalog.php3?hcategory=23hsubcat=198hpagenum=1hproductid=DWYER-61030 I am sure the same is available over there. Happy New Year, by the way!!! I celebrate it on London time, to allow the kids to get to bed early and dad to get some well-deserved sleep. Quoting Jolyon Jackson jolyonjack...@firenet.uk.com: Hello, Thanx for the replies re water gauge and millibars. I was considering buying a dedicated manometer instead of using my home made one. Left the cotton wool plug out and chucked water everywhere (again) so I have been looking at what's available in terms of a sealed unit. Screwfix.com do one at just under £19.00 but since you have replied with your conversion help, I see that the commercial manometer sold by Screwfix only gives 30 millibar so it would be of no use to me. Regards, Jol. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Yer pal, John Liestman
[NSP] Re: re piper's pitch v. concert pitch
Hello Peter and others. I agree absolutely with your suggestion and would advocate the use of standard pitches only, whether D, F, F# or G. The course of instrumental pitch is a complex and controversial one. Unfortunately, the history of woodwind and brasswind making is plagued by examples of instruments whose pitch differed from the prevailing one because individual makers or groups of makers thought it was a good idea at the time. These instruments are not representative of their period and are now curiosities. The difference between F and F +20 cents is sufficiently wide to sound musically unpleasant without providing any pleasing tonal advantage. Many people like the tone of chanters raised by the full semitone to F# and I am one of them. This is of course equivalent to the old G and is very close to the pitch of original chanters made by the Reids whose design forms the basis of all subsequent NSP making. This traditional pitch is heard to great effect in the wonderful playing of Adrian Schofield. I would be very surprised if NSP makers did not eventually move to the standard F that you suggest. Chanters in other standard pitches are perfectly acceptable and seem to provoke no controversy. Francis On 12 Nov 2008, at 20:17, P DUNN wrote: Regarding the question of pitch, it is all a matter of whether one is playing on one's own or playing with others. If playing solo, it doesn't really matter what the pitch is. The problem comes when trying to play with others. Then, it's just a nuisance that the pipes aren't in true F. Personally, I think that pipe makers should grasp the nettle and start to make pipes consistently in F, then they could be a true transposing instrument. Peter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re piper's pitch v. concert pitch
Francis (Wood) wrote: The course of instrumental pitch is a complex and controversial one. Indeed! For anyone seriously interested in this topic, there is now a fascinating book by Bruce Haynes: A History of Performing Pitch: The Story of A http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6657/is_/ai_n29072831 http://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Performing-Pitch-Bruce-Haynes/dp/0810841851/ ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1226584158sr=8-5 Cheers, Paul Gretton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re piper's pitch v. concert pitch
I risk being shot down for ignorance, but is it not the case that the GHB's were traditionally a shade away from Bb concert pitch, and have now come to roost on Bb as such for similar reasons? ( I just wish they wouldn't play them alongside brass bands, which tend to have a different temperament, but that's my problem!) Richard. Francis Wood wrote: Hello Peter and others. I agree absolutely with your suggestion and would advocate the use of standard pitches only, whether D, F, F# or G. The course of instrumental pitch is a complex and controversial one. Unfortunately, the history of woodwind and brasswind making is plagued by examples of instruments whose pitch differed from the prevailing one because individual makers or groups of makers thought it was a good idea at the time. These instruments are not representative of their period and are now curiosities. The difference between F and F +20 cents is sufficiently wide to sound musically unpleasant without providing any pleasing tonal advantage. Many people like the tone of chanters raised by the full semitone to F# and I am one of them. This is of course equivalent to the old G and is very close to the pitch of original chanters made by the Reids whose design forms the basis of all subsequent NSP making. This traditional pitch is heard to great effect in the wonderful playing of Adrian Schofield. I would be very surprised if NSP makers did not eventually move to the standard F that you suggest. Chanters in other standard pitches are perfectly acceptable and seem to provoke no controversy. Francis On 12 Nov 2008, at 20:17, P DUNN wrote: Regarding the question of pitch, it is all a matter of whether one is playing on one's own or playing with others. If playing solo, it doesn't really matter what the pitch is. The problem comes when trying to play with others. Then, it's just a nuisance that the pipes aren't in true F. Personally, I think that pipe makers should grasp the nettle and start to make pipes consistently in F, then they could be a true transposing instrument. Peter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re music for a funeral
Although Derwentwater's Farewell is an excellent to play as the mourners are coming in or going out at a funeral as well as playing for the committal, it is fraught with danger of squeaks when playing the lower notes on the chanter. Much safer to play The Rowan Tree which does not use the keys and is a good tune?for the occasion. Colin R -Original Message- From: P DUNN lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:51 Subject: [NSP] re music for a funeral re Colin's request, I have found that Derwentwater's Farewell works well. It is in Pauline Cato's Northumbrian Choice book, p. 21. However, it is always worthwhile talking to the persons concerned to get their feel for the occasion. Peter Dunn -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. --
[NSP] Re: re-Tune title spelling
As you can probably well imagine this altering of names has occurred very frequently with immigrants whose names seemed quite unintelligible to the immigration authorities. A good friend told us the other day that his father and his 2 uncles (father's brothers) all arrived in New York at different times. The way their names were written down by the American agents both look and sound so utterly and completely different that no one would ever guess there was any relationship. Sheila __ Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? [1]Read reviews on AOL Autos. -- References 1. http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000307 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-Tune title spelling
On 16 Aug 2008, the Red Goblin wrote: variation usually occurs through verbal propagation - the hearer writing it down as they think right and not necessarily correctly. I've found several instances, mainly in more rural communities, of census enumerators (apparently insufficiently familiar with the accent of their appointed areas) incorrectly spelling even quite ordinary names The problems that this caused for non-local enumerators faced with rural Northumbrian / pitmatic / Tyneside accents are all too obvious in the census returns. Often the only solution is to think of exactly what is written, but in the dialect of the area. Partially literate enumerators were a futher tank trap. The solution largely resolved about a generation after the education act of 1875 (ie 1900), by which time there was usually someone in each family who could at least write their names. But the insistence on standardised spelling is largely a product of the first half of the C20 - which makes the consistent records (1700- 1900) of the Allan family remarkable. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-Tune title spelling
Here comes my two-pennyworth. This is a well known phenomena in the land of my birth (Wales) where names were written as sounded. Ap Harry (son of Harry) became Parry. Heard (by the English) as a hesitation (the A sound) and the p migrating to form a new word Parry (dropping the H). Consistent spelling depends on two major things. The ability to read and a standardised spelling (ie a dictionary or Bible). Both fairly recent things from an historical point of view. Probably the printing of the Bible was the most important because that would be found in more homes than a dictionary and was a prime reason for the rise in the ability to read. There are so many variations in names anyway (Alan, Allan, Allen etc) that, unless you can ask the question how do you spell that? you use a variation you are familiar with (as the main thing was to pronounce the name, not write it down). Having worked in some of the less well-off areas of Liverpool, I was always amazed by variations in name-spelling. (Theresa, Teresa and even Tresa amongst several other variations). I should point out that these were NOT deliberate - merely mis-spellings from names heard but not seen (or not being able to be read). Nearly all were meant to be Theresa and usually named from a Saint. I remember quite a few other mis-spellings as well.. That's the 1980's. Heaven help us in the earlier times. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: the Red Goblin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 9:18 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: re-Tune title spelling Interesting - name spelling consistency seems to have been a remarkably variable thing anyway until relatively recently. When did it generally get standardised, I wonder? I know nothing of the politics here but if family research has taught me anything it's to keep an open mind. Just because you haven't found something doesn't rule out its existence. For the benefit of those to whom it's less than obvious, variation usually occurs through verbal propagation - the hearer writing it down as they think right and not necessarily correctly. And verbal propagation, of course, predominated more when literacy levels were lower. Nor forget that before radio/TV raised the common denominator, accents varied quite markedly within short distances (say dale to dale or even street to street in some cases - the recognition of which was such a source of pride for G B Shaw's Professor Higgins). As an example, these days most folk are able to (and do) complete their own census returns but this was not such a foregone conclusion before the 20th century and I've found several instances, mainly in more rural communities, of census enumerators (apparently insufficiently familiar with the accent of their appointed areas) incorrectly spelling even quite ordinary names - e.g. Lionel as Leonel and Beatrice as Betrice. Spending another tuppence, Steve Collins To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re Winter Tunes
The school assembly I am playing in is a holiday celebration which is the way US schools get to cover Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa, and Eid al-Adha without offending anyone. Last year we were going to do the North Skelton dance but the school ended up closed due to a huge power cut but it was interesting during rehearsals to hear to American teachers debating whether the long sword nut might cause offense to some religions because it looks like a St of David... Ian http://www.infoplease.com/spot/islamicholidays.html#adha peter dunn wrote: So in playing tunes with a Winter theme, what are we celebrating? Is it Winter itself (shudder the thought)! Is it a pre-Christian, pagan festival or is it Christmas itself? If the former, there are a number of English folk songs about Winter with tunes that are adaptable to the pipes. If the latter, then it must be the height of hypocracy not to play tunes with a Christian theme. Peter -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re reeds
Peter Dunn wrote: . Having examined the practices of Colin Ross, Richard Butler and John Liestman, I cannot find any great difference in science, but merely a difference in the subtleties of method which are to be expected in the work of any craftsman. Would a completely standardised reed be any better? In some ways, yes it would. It would make the production of reeds more uniform in quality (hopefully!) and the teaching of reed making as an accepted practice more widely able to be disseminated. end of quote ---xx-- Having attended many reed making workshops over the years, both for NSP and for Uilleann pipes, I have the impression that there are as many methods of making a reed as there are reed makers. However, most recognized reed makers seem to adhere to a narrow range for the overall dimensions of their reeds but allow themselves minor variations (particularly in the scrape) to account for the variability of the cane. Let us not forget that arundo donax is a plant, and as such different pieces of cane vary in hardness, density and the structure of their fibres. A totally rigid, standardized reed making process would be doomed to a high failure rate because only reeds made from cane that suited the chosen dimensions would be successful. Na piobanri uilleann (the Irish pipers' club) has produced a DVD called The Heart of the Instrument where four highly regarded pipemakers give a masterclass in reedmaking for Uilleann pipes. One of them, Benedict Koehler, bases his whole approach to reedmaking on how the cane feels in his hands, how it flexes, etc. On the Youtube video put up by Steve Douglass (thanks Steve), Colin also flexes the cane slip at one point in the process as he decides how to continue working on it. What lesson could all this hold for an amateur reedmaker: stop treating the cane as though it were a standardized, man-made material and give more thought to achieving the desired result by listening to what the cane is trying to tell us. That way, we can begin to understand our failures and work towards a higher success rate. Well, that's my inadequate contribution... Cheers, Richard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re Sir P. and K.T.
I really agree with you Maureen. Brilliant mailing. Push the boundaries but retain the roots! Helen - Original Message - From: Maureen Davison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dartmouth N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:19 AM Subject: [NSP] re Sir P. and K.T. Sunday, October 29, 2006 3:54 PM Peter Dunn wrote: the pipes are such a fantastic, amazing and beautiful instrument that they deserve to be much better known. Come the day when their continuing development allows them to be a standard repetoire instrumentHow about a concerto for pipes and orchestra or modern jazz for pipes? Yes, I agree that the Northumberland smallpipes are *fantastic, amazing and beautiful* but I'd question any school of thought that would happily sacrifice the unique to the ubiquitous, using a medium that it is patently unsuitable for. I hasten to point out that I am not a Luddite, I relish the challenges an extended chanter affords me. Those more able musicians who take the instrument outside of the tradition in their quest for musical exploration and experimentation, good luck to them. These ventures tend be limited and with sound reason, as Matt Seattle once commented on this list, if you want play jazz get yourself a clarinet, NSP drones are just not up to the task. Great Highland bagpipes haven't been forced into changing form or repertoire to become known from North Shields to Nepal, so it's a rather alarming notion that NSPs should evolve into something capable of being played in orchestras or jazz bands to achieve similar recognition. Surely that would destroy the very essence of what attracted us to it in the first place and for me, it certainly wasn't to play Stranger on the Shore in preference to the Apprentice Lads of Alnwick! Maureen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re reply
in the same way that the Highland pipes are very suitable for the music they play, but let's be honest, they still remain a primitive, undeveloped instrument. Peter Dunn With all due respect, Peter, this popular view betrays a lack of understanding. Today you will find that from its synthetic bag with an internal moisture control system, to the machined drone reeds with carbon fiber tongues, the machined drones and chanter, the various synthetic glues and oils, and even the mechanically produced chanter reed, there is very little that is primitive or undeveloped about the modern Highland bagpipe. It may sound primitive to many people, but that is another thing altogether. I would wager it sounds very primitive to fans of Barry Manilow, Brittany Speirs and the Bee Gees. Likewise, the music of Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf and Son House is desperately primitive stuff yet highly developed. My personal belief is Highland piping has been marching backwards into the future, with it's eyes firmly fixed on an imaginary past, for so long that the tradition has become a competition exercise, like skating figure eights. It is in fact so highly developed as such that most listeners are challenged to find the music in it, which is even true of most of the practitioners. In fiddling today I long for a small hint of the old dirt. The young ones are so smooth, flashy and fond of technique. John Dally -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re reply
Folks, That's why I like the music of Battlefield Band, Afro Celt, Susanna Seivane, Hevia, and the likes of Dan ar Braz. You can find jazzed folk for bagpipes, it just isn't going to sound like New Orleans or St. Louis jazz. Hovering in the background is the drone core and the folk themes that are its roots. I just wish I had started on the pipes 40 years ago instead of 10. Then I'd be a whiz. Practice is everything. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:03 AM To: peter dunn Cc: Dartmouth N.P.S. site Subject: [NSP] Re: re reply in the same way that the Highland pipes are very suitable for the music they play, but let's be honest, they still remain a primitive, undeveloped instrument. Peter Dunn With all due respect, Peter, this popular view betrays a lack of understanding. Today you will find that from its synthetic bag with an internal moisture control system, to the machined drone reeds with carbon fiber tongues, the machined drones and chanter, the various synthetic glues and oils, and even the mechanically produced chanter reed, there is very little that is primitive or undeveloped about the modern Highland bagpipe. It may sound primitive to many people, but that is another thing altogether. I would wager it sounds very primitive to fans of Barry Manilow, Brittany Speirs and the Bee Gees. Likewise, the music of Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf and Son House is desperately primitive stuff yet highly developed. My personal belief is Highland piping has been marching backwards into the future, with it's eyes firmly fixed on an imaginary past, for so long that the tradition has become a competition exercise, like skating figure eights. It is in fact so highly developed as such that most listeners are challenged to find the music in it, which is even true of most of the practitioners. In fiddling today I long for a small hint of the old dirt. The young ones are so smooth, flashy and fond of technique. John Dally -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Este mensaje (incluyendo los archivos adjuntos) esta dirigido solo al receptor senalado y puede contener informacion de caracter privilegiada, privada o confidencial. Si usted no es el receptor senalado o bien ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor notifique inmediatamente al remitente y elimine el mensaje original. Cualquier otro uso de este mensaje de correo electronico esta prohibido.
[NSP] Re: re DVD and Northumbrian pipes
Hello all The DVD Ian refers to is excellent, but is in czech (of course, because it is about piping/piping history around Strakonice), though there are sub titles in english. It does feature some footage of an early trip to the festival (1968) with Colin Ross and Forster Charlton, and has more recent footage of Neil Smith playing the Northumbrian pipes. There is a DVD Edwin's Kingdom (vol 1 I think )which has a bit of the NPS competitions at Rothbury Music Festival circa 1990. Anne / Bagpipe Museum -Original Message- From: Ian Lawther [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 June 2006 20:38 To: NSP Mailing List; Robert Smith Subject: [NSP] Re: re DVD and Northumbrian pipes This one which is for all regions ( http://www.bagpipediscs.travelingpiper.com/product_info.php?cPath=24products_id=126 ) includes some NSP but I don't know how much. I don't know of any others currently available. Ian - Original Message - From: Robert Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP Mailing List nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [NSP] re DVD and Northumbrian pipes Just out of interest are there any Northumbrian Piping DVDs out there ? Rob Smith (Looking for a Region 4 PAL !) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Please respect the environment and be green by example. Only print out this e-mail and attachments if you have to. Thank you. The Information contained in this E-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended for the addressee only. They are confidential and may contain private or privileged information. They must not be copied or their contents disclosed to anyone other than the addressee. If they are delivered to you in error please destroy all copies immediately and contact the sender. This E-mail and any attachment(s) are believed to be free from virus but it is the responsibility of the recipient to meet all the necessary virus checks. The views expressed in this E-mail are personal to the sender and not, unless otherwise stated, those of Castle Morpeth Borough Council. For further information please contact the originator or telephone the Council on 01670 535000.
[NSP] Re: re DVD and Northumbrian pipes
This one which is for all regions ( http://www.bagpipediscs.travelingpiper.com/product_info.php?cPath=24products_id=126 ) includes some NSP but I don't know how much. I don't know of any others currently available. Ian - Original Message - From: Robert Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: NSP Mailing List nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: [NSP] re DVD and Northumbrian pipes Just out of interest are there any Northumbrian Piping DVDs out there ? Rob Smith (Looking for a Region 4 PAL !) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
