Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
Hello Rob, *, -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] I think the challenge is to change the thinking that says a project can only be successful if it raises money. Yes, you're right. But success is measured, in my opinion, in the dissemination of AOO, for private users *but also* for use in companies. In my experience this purpose, the work on the ground is essential. AOO must be present to the public and decision makers in companies already have AOO be seen as a real alternative to MS Office. This calls for talks as a relevant framework in Germany at Chamber of Commerce Events. I personally have several months ago on the phone with a German IBM manager and to illustrate the relevance of such things. What concerns me is not about money (or primarily to money), but about collaboration in the communitybecause IBM, I and the German community are parts of the international community. I have also read the demands of IBM, on XING, to create a partner network, and I think that's a good idea, but unfortunately I put demand on the fixed nothing concrete happens. Collaboration in the community is not a question of money but of doing and at the same time, this cooperation also key to the success of service providers, e.g. such under which: http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html are listed. Currently I am professionally e.g. in negotiations for a major consulting company, which either LO or AOO want to use (instead of MS Office) on hundreds or thousands of workplaces, but these companies want to see visible presence of AOO. Such companies want from me, as an expert, impartial advice and not the reference to other companies. For Germany, I would wish for the future practical cooperation of consultants like me, medium-sized businesses, large companies, such as IBM, and the community, for mutual success. I'm ready for this for a long time, and as many of the German community, but we must finally start real actions. LibreOffice is everywhere in Germany, but where are we? Where AOO is really visible in Germany? Besides exhibitions (e.g. CeBIT or as the LinuxTag in Berlin), were IHK meetings an important opportunity. In the next year it will be an event of FroDeV commercial users give (http://www.frodev.org/konferenz), I'm sure that LibreOffice will be there, but also Apache OpenOffice? greetings Jörg
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
On 10/29/2012 2:22 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: Hello Rob, *, -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] I think the challenge is to change the thinking that says a project can only be successful if it raises money. Yes, you're right. But success is measured, in my opinion, in the dissemination of AOO, for private users *but also* for use in companies. In my experience this purpose, the work on the ground is essential. AOO must be present to the public and decision makers in companies already have AOO be seen as a real alternative to MS Office. This calls for talks as a relevant framework in Germany at Chamber of Commerce Events. I personally have several months ago on the phone with a German IBM manager and to illustrate the relevance of such things. What concerns me is not about money (or primarily to money), but about collaboration in the communitybecause IBM, I and the German community are parts of the international community. I have also read the demands of IBM, on XING, to create a partner network, and I think that's a good idea, but unfortunately I put demand on the fixed nothing concrete happens. Collaboration in the community is not a question of money but of doing and at the same time, this cooperation also key to the success of service providers, e.g. such under which: http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html are listed. Currently I am professionally e.g. in negotiations for a major consulting company, which either LO or AOO want to use (instead of MS Office) on hundreds or thousands of workplaces, but these companies want to see visible presence of AOO. Such companies want from me, as an expert, impartial advice and not the reference to other companies. For Germany, I would wish for the future practical cooperation of consultants like me, medium-sized businesses, large companies, such as IBM, and the community, for mutual success. I'm ready for this for a long time, and as many of the German community, but we must finally start real actions. LibreOffice is everywhere in Germany, but where are we? Where AOO is really visible in Germany? Besides exhibitions (e.g. CeBIT or as the LinuxTag in Berlin), were IHK meetings an important opportunity. In the next year it will be an event of FroDeV commercial users give (http://www.frodev.org/konferenz), I'm sure that LibreOffice will be there, but also Apache OpenOffice? Good points Jörg, I hope you'll be at the BoF session at the ApacheCon EU in Sinsheim to plead for them. Peter
Re: [PROPOSAL] Initiate a Contest for Branding of 4.0
KG01 - see comments inline. On Oct 27, 2012, at 7:16 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 26/10/2012 Ian Lynch wrote: I arranged one for the OOo schools mascot ... The winner was clear-cut. A 16 year old Italian boy who aspired to be a graphic designer. Here he is (by chance, he's called Andrea too): http://www.openoffice.org/editorial/interview_andrea_maggioni.html (EN) http://www.openoffice.org/it/stampa/comunicati/avv12.html (IT) A quick web search shows that in the end he managed to become a graphic designer indeed! The mascot is at the end of http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/education/schools/ but it didn't have that much recognition in the end. Indeed, as Ian pointed out, the main value of that competition was in getting media exposure; KG - Wouldn't the value in the contest be the new branding elements? I'm not sure that this is the best way to hold a marketing event. From a UX design perspective, this approach presents risk. The branding is bound to the UI, and other supporting visual elements. We are just starting to explore the AOO branding and UX enhancements for AOO 4.0. I'd prefer we explore this in house first. We don't have our full inventory of requirements yet. I prefer that we defer this proposal. Regards, Kevin while in this (OpenOffice 4.0 visual identity) competition we will probably want both media exposure and a professional outcome, so a clear RFP (Request for proposal) as Graham proposes will help and it is an excellent first step. Regards, Andrea.
Re: [PROPOSAL] Initiate a Contest for Branding of 4.0
On 29 October 2012 10:19, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com wrote: KG01 - see comments inline. On Oct 27, 2012, at 7:16 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 26/10/2012 Ian Lynch wrote: I arranged one for the OOo schools mascot ... The winner was clear-cut. A 16 year old Italian boy who aspired to be a graphic designer. Here he is (by chance, he's called Andrea too): http://www.openoffice.org/editorial/interview_andrea_maggioni.html (EN) http://www.openoffice.org/it/stampa/comunicati/avv12.html (IT) A quick web search shows that in the end he managed to become a graphic designer indeed! The mascot is at the end of http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/education/schools/ but it didn't have that much recognition in the end. Indeed, as Ian pointed out, the main value of that competition was in getting media exposure; KG - Wouldn't the value in the contest be the new branding elements? I'm not sure that this is the best way to hold a marketing event. Maybe not the best, but will it help? Question is not perfection but is it better to do it than not to do it. Why not add value with a multi-dimensional approach rather than fix to only one thing? Especially if the additional effort is minimal. From a UX design perspective, this approach presents risk. The branding is bound to the UI, and other supporting visual elements. All approaches present risk. There is no obligation on the PMC to adopt any branding that it does not see as appropriate for whatever reason so the risk of getting a brand that causes UI problems is no higher than if it is done entirely in house. We are just starting to explore the AOO branding and UX enhancements for AOO 4.0. I'd prefer we explore this in house first. We don't have our full inventory of requirements yet. Why not do both? Crowd sourcing ideas is no real disadvantage if there is no requirement to adopt any of the specific proposals. It might be that only a logo is used, or a packaging presentation from the competition, or all of it or none of it. Even just framing the competition scope and rules helps provide some focus for development. Putting it out to art and design colleges and universities will raise our profile and tap into resources and expertise we currently don't have. And in the end we don't have to adopt any of the entries if we don't want to, they could just help stimulate ideas. I prefer that we defer this proposal. Regards, Kevin while in this (OpenOffice 4.0 visual identity) competition we will probably want both media exposure and a professional outcome, so a clear RFP (Request for proposal) as Graham proposes will help and it is an excellent first step. Regards, Andrea. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: Is there something wrong with the templates wiki?
Hi, try http://templates.services.openoffice.org/ And that link below failed for me too. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have some new presentation templates and I want to upload them to Apache Open Office templates wiki. But always failed to open the link: * http://http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_Social_Data templates.services.openoffice.org/* Is there something wrong with the wiki? Thanks. -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Cheers, Ian C
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 2:22 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Hello Rob, *, -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] I think the challenge is to change the thinking that says a project can only be successful if it raises money. Yes, you're right. But success is measured, in my opinion, in the dissemination of AOO, for private users *but also* for use in companies. In my experience this purpose, the work on the ground is essential. AOO must be present to the public and decision makers in companies already have AOO be seen as a real alternative to MS Office. This calls for talks as a relevant framework in Germany at Chamber of Commerce Events. I personally have several months ago on the phone with a German IBM manager and to illustrate the relevance of such things. What concerns me is not about money (or primarily to money), but about collaboration in the communitybecause IBM, I and the German community are parts of the international community. I have also read the demands of IBM, on XING, to create a partner network, and I think that's a good idea, but unfortunately I put demand on the fixed nothing concrete happens. Collaboration in the community is not a question of money but of doing and at the same time, this cooperation also key to the success of service providers, e.g. such under which: http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html are listed. The ooo-marketing list is a great place to coordinate international campaigns. And we have a German list for local events, yes? Currently I am professionally e.g. in negotiations for a major consulting company, which either LO or AOO want to use (instead of MS Office) on hundreds or thousands of workplaces, but these companies want to see visible presence of AOO. Such companies want from me, as an expert, impartial advice and not the reference to other companies. For Germany, I would wish for the future practical cooperation of consultants like me, medium-sized businesses, large companies, such as IBM, and the community, for mutual success. I think the consultants directory is the best option here. I see companies looking for AOO support, but they are sometimes too small to interest IBM. But they would be a good size for smaller companies. I'd love to be able to refer them to a local small company. I'm ready for this for a long time, and as many of the German community, but we must finally start real actions. LibreOffice is everywhere in Germany, but where are we? Where AOO is really visible in Germany? Besides exhibitions (e.g. CeBIT or as the LinuxTag in Berlin), were IHK meetings an important opportunity. In the next year it will be an event of FroDeV commercial users give (http://www.frodev.org/konferenz), I'm sure that LibreOffice will be there, but also Apache OpenOffice? Suggestion: 1) Take one of the general overview presentations from ApacheCon and clean it up. Make it into the standard' AOO overview presentation. Put it on the marketing wiki. Get it translated into various languages. Maintain it so it remains current. 2) Start a wiki page to lists events-of-interest. List event, date, location, link to website, etc. Project members who are local to that event can volunteer to present there. Many are doable as a day trip. CeBit is in Hanover, 92 minutes from Hamburg on the ICE train, for example. 3) For critical events where there are no local project members we can check with other Apache members, from other projects, to see if they can help cover it. In return, maybe we help promote related projects at events we are able to attend. 4) If any critical conference is still not covered, then we look at other options. -Rob greetings Jörg
Re: IPR PERMISSION
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:59 AM, Peter Junge peter.ju...@gmx.org wrote: On 10/24/2012 10:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Peter Junge peter.ju...@gmx.org wrote: On 10/23/2012 7:42 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Peter Junge peter.ju...@gmx.org wrote: Dear Sumanyu Satpathy, we have been receiving several emails with attached documents in the moderation queue of this mailing list. As far as I understand it, you want to obtain permissions to use several screenshots of OpenOffice in publications. Hi Peter, If they are asking to use screenshots of OpenOffice in a book, we've received several requests like this in the past. The policy for this is here: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#insidebook If there use matches that description they could contact tradema...@apache.org directly, per the above policy. Well, I wanted to wait until Sumanyu Satpathy sends a usable request to the mailing list here. So far the mails that have been landing here refer attachments that have been stripped off. Surely you as moderator have received the attachments? Just get on with it and explain what the request it. Asking the sender to debug this is probably not going to work. It already worked half way. I prefer to help people to help themselves. That makes it easier for them to come back later, standing on their own feet. Do you really think that we'll hear from them again? Even if the same company needed permission from us again (unlikely) the chances are that we'd get a request from a different employee. Taking time to explain the technical limitations of our mailing list to a random office worker is not an investment that will ever pay off. All that is happening is we're delaying getting this request to the party that actually has the authority to grant permission, namely V.P. Branding, Since the trademarks@ mailing list does accept attachments, isn't the easiest resolution to ask them to forward their request to trademarks@ ??? -Rob Peter -Rob Peter -Rob Please, do not send one request for permission per every screen shot. Just contact this list (ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org) and describe your concern in general. I'm sure we'll find an easy solution. For now, I'm not moderating your other messages through because the attachments will be stripped of anyway. Best regards, Peter On 10/23/2012 5:30 PM, ILLL Copyright wrote: Please find the attachment.
Re: Is there something wrong with the templates wiki?
2012/10/29 Ian C i...@amham.net Hi, try http://templates.services.openoffice.org/ http://templates.openoffice.org/en works too Regards Ricardo And that link below failed for me too. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have some new presentation templates and I want to upload them to Apache Open Office templates wiki. But always failed to open the link: * http://http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_Social_Data templates.services.openoffice.org/* Is there something wrong with the wiki? Thanks. -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Cheers, Ian C
Re: CMS diff: Quality Assurance
Thanks for the patch. I've committed it. -Rob On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Yan Ji anonym...@apache.org wrote: Clone URL (Committers only): https://cms.apache.org/redirect?new=anonymous;action=diff;uri=http://openofficeorg.apache.org/openofficeorg%2Fqa.mdtext Yan Ji Index: trunk/content/openofficeorg/qa.mdtext === --- trunk/content/openofficeorg/qa.mdtext (revision 1403132) +++ trunk/content/openofficeorg/qa.mdtext (working copy) @@ -27,7 +27,9 @@ Some easy examples to help OpenOffice QA includes: - - Install and use daily builds of OpenOffice. [Download builds from here.](http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice) + - Install and use daily builds of OpenOffice. +1. Try new features on a stable developer snapshot build. [Dwonload unofficial developer snapshot build.](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Development+Snapshot+Builds) +2. Try new features and fixes on latest nightly build. [Download builds from here.](http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice) - Introduce OpenOffice to others. Talk to us about their feedback. - Follow test cases to perform manual testing. - Report bugs to help improve the quality. [Start from here.](bug-tracking.html)
[QA Report]Weekly Defect Analysis Report as of 2012/10/29
Please find weekly defect analysis report http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/Report/DefectStatus/20121029 -- Thanks Best Regards, Yan Ji
Fonts
Hi All, I have a couple of questions. I'll use separate posts for them. When Writer cannot find the font named in the styles.xml, on the system, it defaults. How is that managed? Can someone point me to some documentaion or code that deals with that? In a test I just did I had Writer open a document I think is from a Windows system, it had paragraph font of Times New Roman. It shows Times New Roman in the toolbar. When I right click and select the character dialog it tells me the font is not installed and the closest available will be used. Which is kind of cool, but see below. I then edited the Styles XML file to change the name of the font - to one that does not exist. Then my system shows Liberation Serif as the font used. I assume that is some sort of default? Ah, I see in the Options setting that is the font selected. This time when I right click it simple tells me that the font is Liberation Serif. This doesn't seem consistent. Where did my edited font name go to? I'm guessing processing the changed XML failed in some way. Is there a log telling me this somewhere? Should the user be told about the change of font more clearly? It could cause reformatting issues. -- Cheers, Ian C
Re: CMS diff: Quality Assurance
Rob, thanks for your help. 2012/10/29 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org Thanks for the patch. I've committed it. -Rob On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Yan Ji anonym...@apache.org wrote: Clone URL (Committers only): https://cms.apache.org/redirect?new=anonymous;action=diff;uri=http://openofficeorg.apache.org/openofficeorg%2Fqa.mdtext Yan Ji Index: trunk/content/openofficeorg/qa.mdtext === --- trunk/content/openofficeorg/qa.mdtext (revision 1403132) +++ trunk/content/openofficeorg/qa.mdtext (working copy) @@ -27,7 +27,9 @@ Some easy examples to help OpenOffice QA includes: - - Install and use daily builds of OpenOffice. [Download builds from here.](http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice) + - Install and use daily builds of OpenOffice. +1. Try new features on a stable developer snapshot build. [Dwonload unofficial developer snapshot build.]( https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Development+Snapshot+Builds ) +2. Try new features and fixes on latest nightly build. [Download builds from here.](http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice) - Introduce OpenOffice to others. Talk to us about their feedback. - Follow test cases to perform manual testing. - Report bugs to help improve the quality. [Start from here.](bug-tracking.html) -- Thanks Best Regards, Yan Ji
Re: [QA Report]Weekly Defect Analysis Report as of 2012/10/29
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com wrote: Please find weekly defect analysis report http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/Report/DefectStatus/20121029 Thanks for the report. Would it be possible to also get an update for this chart: http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.html ??? The data file is here: http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.txt Can I get the right numbers from that report? -Rob -- Thanks Best Regards, Yan Ji
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
Hello, The ooo-marketing list is a great place to coordinate international campaigns. And we have a German list for local events, yes? Yes, we have a German list, but there can discuss only. The practical work but needs a lot of different things. First people, but also material things and not a case by case, but permanently. The German community is working on this, but it is also necessary here to address such things. I think. I think the consultants directory is the best option here. Unfortunately, no. It is necessary but not sufficient, because it takes more than just information. AOO business users need confidence in the AOO and this is growing with major partners. I see companies looking for AOO support, but they are sometimes too small to interest IBM. But they would be a good size for smaller companies. I'd love to be able to refer them to a local small company. In this case, please explain to me why IBM calls publicly to a partner network. see: https://www.xing.com/net/aoo/allgemeines-diskussionsforum-698796/partner-netzwerk-rund-um-apache-openoffice-41041065/ Or is that not a valid question? Sorry Rob, just the very real problem that I see is that IBM does not understand that small companies can help to open up markets *for IBM*. But because the small companies can, IBM should take care of it. It would be good if IBM would consider the experiences of the past which consist of OOo, SUN and Oracle. Here on the mailing list, not the place to talk about these things, but I and other experts know how to act would be to achieve a win-win-situation for IBM and small companies. This is not a pure IT question but an business question. (Note: I have studied business administration.) Suggestion: 1) Take one of the general overview presentations from ApacheCon and clean it up. Make it into the standard' AOO overview presentation. Put it on the marketing wiki. Get it translated into various languages. Maintain it so it remains current. 2) Start a wiki page to lists events-of-interest. List event, date, location, link to website, etc. Project members who are local to that event can volunteer to present there. Many are doable as a day trip. CeBit is in Hanover, 92 minutes from Hamburg on the ICE train, for example. 3) For critical events where there are no local project members we can check with other Apache members, from other projects, to see if they can help cover it. In return, maybe we help promote related projects at events we are able to attend. 4) If any critical conference is still not covered, then we look at other options. These things are true, but they are no real answer to the problems that I have tried to explain. It's not a problem of people, time or money, it is first a question broadest possible cooperation of all concerned. Not only for individual events, but rather strategically. Greetings Jörg
Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks
I think asking me would be wrong...I would come with the much to complicated answers :-) I really like the idea of simple start page, for people who want to help without getting so deeply involved as I am trying to become. May I suggest a wiki page, where we constantly (very frequently write) - these items needs to be translated to (languages missing) - these items (e.g. user doc) needs to be enhanced updated. - and something like, feel free to start with any of these items, that would really help AOO. People like myself, is partly beyond help, meaning the best way to help us, is for someone to be a mentor. Above a given level it becomes too difficult to write documentaion and much easier to have a mentor (which would save this list for a lot of noise, for which I apologize). jan. On 29 October 2012 05:14, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-10-28, at 19:30 , Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote: New Volunteer Orientation root page: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/ This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents are excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above average, or at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be perfect for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and the mindset to understand in detail how things work. And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which are not? I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say that they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first. It is entirely up to them. I agree. One thing that worked sometimes at Ye Olde OpenOffice was simply to ask Jan and others what they would want there to make life easier for us all. This strategy has a couple of advantages. One is that by crowdsourcing it one can plausibly get answers that differ from the ones we, so familiar with this site and what we do would not come up with, and two, share the responsibility of improvement with the community affected. That latter is goodness. -louis
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
About Peter's point #2...I suppose this is getting kind of abstract, but what is the payoff from expanding AOO's community? Typically marketing is performed to increase sales, which earns money; AOO has no sales, so what should the intended benefit from marketing be? How does Apache gain from a larger user base for AOO? More users - more traffic - more demand for resources - more demand for people that maintain infrastructure and the money to pay for said infrastructure. What is Apache's interest in promoting its offering of AOO? How does AOO gain from a larger user base? More beta-testing, more word-of-mouth exposure, more potential donors? More representative clout for acquiring resources from Apache? I'm not saying -- I would never say -- that making AOO available to the world is a bad or unnecessary thing. Given monopolistic business practices and commercialization of software available, it's important for there to be freely available alternatives to such things as an office productivity suite. But if marketing is going to occur, it would be good to know what said marketing is meant to accomplish, other than promotion for promotion's sake. Promotion for promotion's sake is the organizational manifestation of a viral idea. If there's to be a discussion on marketing, perhaps it should include a manifesto that's more concrete and strategic than Don't you think this is great? Let's throw money at it until you do. Don
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Donald Whytock dwhyt...@gmail.com wrote: About Peter's point #2...I suppose this is getting kind of abstract, but what is the payoff from expanding AOO's community? A more diverse and sustainable project. For example, until few years ago having OOo integrated or at least able to interoperate with SAP was a distinct dream, is there any chance we can have the right SAP people to attend the AOO BoF, and discuss about this? SugarCRM's CEO wrote in early May [1] wrote that he they were looking at how they can integrate with OpenOffice, it would be great to see things like this happening. Roberto [1] http://lmaugustin.typepad.com/lma/2012/05/apache-releases-openoffice-34-sugarcrm-looking-at-how-we-can-integrate-with-openoffice-httpowlyanyok.html Typically marketing is performed to increase sales, which earns money; AOO has no sales, so what should the intended benefit from marketing be? How does Apache gain from a larger user base for AOO? More users - more traffic - more demand for resources - more demand for people that maintain infrastructure and the money to pay for said infrastructure. What is Apache's interest in promoting its offering of AOO? How does AOO gain from a larger user base? More beta-testing, more word-of-mouth exposure, more potential donors? More representative clout for acquiring resources from Apache? I'm not saying -- I would never say -- that making AOO available to the world is a bad or unnecessary thing. Given monopolistic business practices and commercialization of software available, it's important for there to be freely available alternatives to such things as an office productivity suite. But if marketing is going to occur, it would be good to know what said marketing is meant to accomplish, other than promotion for promotion's sake. Promotion for promotion's sake is the organizational manifestation of a viral idea. If there's to be a discussion on marketing, perhaps it should include a manifesto that's more concrete and strategic than Don't you think this is great? Let's throw money at it until you do. Don -- This e- mail message is intended only for the named recipient(s) above. It may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by replying to this e-mail and delete the message and any attachment(s) from your system. Thank you.
Re: Apache Asia Roadshow 2012 - Dec 13th Beijing
Hi Simon, On 10/26/2012 9:48 PM, Shenfeng Liu wrote: Don Peter, I think it is a very good opportunity to promote Apache OpenOffice in China marketing through Apache Asia Roadshow 2012. And from another side, the wide influence of OpenOffice can also help to promote Apache. I'd like to work with Peter together on it. The target can be not only attract individual volunteers to participate the community, but also demonstrate the business opportunities and attract local business partners. While first of all, I'd like to know more details about this event. Perhaps Jimmy is the right contact? indeed, let's put together such a session for the Roadshow. A possible brief outline would be: - Introduction to and history of OpenOffice - What's happening around AOO in Beijing respectively China. Engineers of IBM and of CS2C could share what they are working on. - How businesses and users can benefit from AOO, ways to join the AOO community. How much time we can spend on the parts would depend on how much time we would get in total. BTW, I just took a small surgery yesterday, and in the following week I have to spend most of the daytime in hospital for subsequent treatment. So my response to the mail threads may be slow. But I will try to catch up on this topic. Get well soon! Best regards, peter - Shenfeng Liu (Simon) 2012/10/26 Peter Junge peter.ju...@gmx.org Hi Don, thanks for the notice. Unfortunately, the Apache Asia Roadshow 2012 seem to lack of promoting the event. I only heard about it by coincidence a couple of days ago. (more inline) On 10/25/2012 9:47 PM, Donald Harbison wrote: On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Justin Erenkrantz jus...@erenkrantz.com wrote: [...] we plan the main topic around cloud computing: open source really produce a basement to the cloud computing, like Apache Hadoop and cloudstack; welcome any open source topic in or out of this area. The Apache OpenOffice community has a significant local representation in Beijing. I'm cc'ing the community to alert our Chinese contributors to reach out to you and explore the possibility of adding an Apache OpenOffice session to increase its visibility. We just graduated to an Apache TLP, so we have a solid foundation upon which to build with a strong global community. The Chinese community is very important and making a large contribution. As I seem to be the only one in Beijing who's with OpenOffice from the beginning, I'd like to offer a talk about the history of OOo, if that is of interest. As the 13th is a weekday, I just have to find out if I can take a day off my daily job. @concom: I cannot find anything about the Apache Asia Roadshow 2012 at http://wiki.apache.org/**apachecon/ http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ Do you have a link to the Apache Asia Roadshow 2012 for me? I want to write an event announcement at the homepage of the Beijing Linux User Group (http://blug.chinalug.org/). We're reaching quite a few geeks. Best regards, Peter
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: On 12-10-28, at 23:33 , Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: That's the way to grow. Raising money to send the existing volunteers to travel to more places is only growth for the airline industry. It is not growth for the project. We need to find people who are able to succeed in a business based on enhancing or supporting the OpenOffice product to businesses and users.. A business based on promoting the OpenOffice open source project is not really a business model. I don't think we want to encourage anyone to think of making a career as a professional OpenOffice community manager or anything like that. hey! ;=) Though your contempt for community management is, I have to say, a little ironic, given that's pretty much what you do. I don't have contempt for the role. It was fine as a corporate-defined role in a corporate-led and sponsored open source project.I just don't see the role as applicable in a community-led meritocracy. But actually I agree with you here, in that what would work to enlarge the community of contributors is not sending ambassadors here and there to little effect but to (and here I extend the argument) to provide the resources for regional ecosystem growth. Those resources are, I think, cheap. They are: website, badge, banners; guidelines for trademark; wiki for suggestions, additions, and minimal provisions for beer and pizza (and its equivalents) for initial meetings. In short, what you normally find at a LUG or so. louis
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
On 10/29/12, Donald Whytock dwhyt...@gmail.com wrote: About Peter's point #2...I suppose this is getting kind of abstract, but what is the payoff from expanding AOO's community? Typically marketing is performed to increase sales, which earns money; AOO has no sales, so what should the intended benefit from marketing be? Usually donnations, most of OOo community income came from donations, and some grants from Sun. You can read more agbout the budget on the wiki: http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Funding_And_Budgets/Budget_2011 How does Apache gain from a larger user base for AOO? More users - more traffic - more demand for resources - more demand for people that maintain infrastructure and the money to pay for said infrastructure. What is Apache's interest in promoting its offering of AOO? Not sure, but is a good question. Then again, why do apache would want to add projects to their foundation on the first place? That answer should loosely apply to this one. How does AOO gain from a larger user base? More beta-testing, more word-of-mouth exposure, more potential donors? More representative clout for acquiring resources from Apache? I'm not saying -- I would never say -- that making AOO available to the world is a bad or unnecessary thing. Given monopolistic business practices and commercialization of software available, it's important for there to be freely available alternatives to such things as an office productivity suite. But if marketing is going to occur, it would be good to know what said marketing is meant to accomplish, other than promotion for promotion's sake. Promotion for promotion's sake is the organizational manifestation of a viral idea. If there's to be a discussion on marketing, perhaps it should include a manifesto that's more concrete and strategic than Don't you think this is great? Let's throw money at it until you do. Shouldnt this be on ooo-marketing? Don -- Alexandro Colorado PPMC Apache OpenOffice http://es.openoffice.org
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: Shouldnt this be on ooo-marketing? Probably. But it was in response to Peter's questions about ApacheCon EU discussion topics, one of which was about end-user software vs. the typical Apache offering, and how a big difference is that AOO needs a big marketing effort to reach its users and constantly growing that user base. I just think such a discussion should include thoughts on what said marketing effort can and should hope to accomplish for a FOSS product vs. a commercial one. Don
crash with debug build of r1403340
Hi all, I get an immediately crash, when I try to switch to presentation mode (=F5) in Impress. It is a debug build of r1403340 on WinXP. But I'm not sure, whether there is something wrong in my build and I need to make a new, clean build. It would be nice, if someone can test it. [The downloaded r1400866 is OK.] Kind regards Regina
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
Customers don't come to IBM looking only for OpenOffice. I mean companies, not simple users. And these companies ask me if they should use AOO or LO and they look around in the market. These companies need my help, but they also need the confidence in the future of AOO and for many companies this is not a question of what the community is saying, but to say what its large community of partners (eg IBM). Views on the document of February 2012: http://ebookbrowse.com/symphony-apache-future-faq-02-2012-pdf-d359761565 and I tell you, that is the question many companies: When will The Apache OpenOffice IBM Edition on the market? They are looking for a bundle of software and services and OpenOffice might enter the discussions as a small part of the overall deal. We commonly work with business partners, subcontractors, etc., where specialized skills are needed. This includes partners large and small. But what IBM is doing in practice? It is your colleague who wrote the following: https://www.xing.com/net/aoo/allgemeines-diskussionsforum-698796/partner-netzwerk-rund-um-apache-openoffice-41041065/ and when I speak of, as a consultant for AOO, IBM I get no useful answer. That is the fact. Sorry, that's just the truth. I you can not post details here, but I mean what I say. I doubt the opportunities will flow from small companies to IBM. I do not, because it is grown in Germany OOo in business sector. The truth in this case is the OOo was as last in higher esteem than StarOffice and that was the merit of small German companies, not from Sun or Oracle. Or is that 'too much' truth? It would be good if IBM would consider the experiences of the past which consist of OOo, SUN and Oracle. And you might consider IBM's experience with Linux, where we invested over $1 billion into Linux development, but we don't sell Linux. But we're glad to work with partners on deals involving Linux. Yes, you're right. And many potential partners would be for the future of similar transactions with IBM wish regarding AOO. Statements in: https://www.xing.com/net/aoo/allgemeines-diskussionsforum-698796/partner-netzwerk-rund-um-apache-openoffice-41041065/ are correct, they need to be filled with life Again, sorry for my statements ... I know these are not issues for the list here, but there are important issues for small companies and consultants like me. And it should be important issues for IBM. Greetings Jörg
Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community
On Oct 29, 2012, at 6:40 PM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: Customers don't come to IBM looking only for OpenOffice. I mean companies, not simple users. I mean companies as well. And these companies ask me if they should use AOO or LO and they look around in the market. These companies need my help, but they also need the confidence in the future of AOO and for many companies this is not a question of what the community is saying, but to say what its large community of partners (eg IBM). Views on the document of February 2012: http://ebookbrowse.com/symphony-apache-future-faq-02-2012-pdf-d359761565 and I tell you, that is the question many companies: When will The Apache OpenOffice IBM Edition on the market? I'm sorry if you think that IBM product plans will be reviewed and discussed on this list in advance. But that is not how it will work. I think we've made it clear that the distinguishing features in the IBM Edition will be a set of extensions that connect AOO to various IBM middleware products. But the feature details and timing are not this project's concern. Similarly we have no right to demand that Yuri detail his OS/2 business plans or that Adfinis Sygroup discuss the details of their Solaris business plan. They are looking for a bundle of software and services and OpenOffice might enter the discussions as a small part of the overall deal. We commonly work with business partners, subcontractors, etc., where specialized skills are needed. This includes partners large and small. But what IBM is doing in practice? It is your colleague who wrote the following: https://www.xing.com/net/aoo/allgemeines-diskussionsforum-698796/partner-netzwerk-rund-um-apache-openoffice-41041065/ and when I speak of, as a consultant for AOO, IBM I get no useful answer. That is the fact. Sorry, that's just the truth. I you can not post details here, but I mean what I say. When we have something to announce you can expect to read it in official places. It won't be something we'll be hiding in strange corners of the web. Until then you'll need to deal with FUD when developing your business just like we do. Remember the move to Apache and our recent graduation are both pro-stability events. These make it safer to invest in AOO. I doubt the opportunities will flow from small companies to IBM. I do not, because it is grown in Germany OOo in business sector. The truth in this case is the OOo was as last in higher esteem than StarOffice and that was the merit of small German companies, not from Sun or Oracle. Or is that 'too much' truth? How Sun lost money on OOo is not really relevant to what we do today. It would be good if IBM would consider the experiences of the past which consist of OOo, SUN and Oracle. And you might consider IBM's experience with Linux, where we invested over $1 billion into Linux development, but we don't sell Linux. But we're glad to work with partners on deals involving Linux. Yes, you're right. And many potential partners would be for the future of similar transactions with IBM wish regarding AOO. Statements in: https://www.xing.com/net/aoo/allgemeines-diskussionsforum-698796/partner-netzwerk-rund-um-apache-openoffice-41041065/ are correct, they need to be filled with life Again, sorry for my statements ... I know these are not issues for the list here, but there are important issues for small companies and consultants like me. And it should be important issues for IBM. Honestly I still have no idea what your concern is. Sorry. -Rob Greetings Jörg
Re: crash with debug build of r1403340
FWIW, I am getting this with today's build: /usr/local/openoffice-r1403590/openoffice.org3/program/../basis-link/program/libsofficeapp.so: Undefined symbol _ZThn448_N3svt11OWizardPage14initializePageEv cheers, Pedro. - Original Message - From: Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de To: Apache OpenOffice dev ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Cc: Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 4:26 PM Subject: crash with debug build of r1403340 Hi all, I get an immediately crash, when I try to switch to presentation mode (=F5) in Impress. It is a debug build of r1403340 on WinXP. But I'm not sure, whether there is something wrong in my build and I need to make a new, clean build. It would be nice, if someone can test it. [The downloaded r1400866 is OK.] Kind regards Regina
Re: crash with debug build of r1403340
- Original Message - FWIW, I am getting this with today's build: /usr/local/openoffice-r1403590/openoffice.org3/program/../basis-link/program/libsofficeapp.so: Undefined symbol _ZThn448_N3svt11OWizardPage14initializePageEv This is probably caused by using a dirty build before updating the code from subversion, though.. so don't worry about finding the issues unless you see a similar problem in your build ;). Pedro.
Re: [QA Report]Weekly Defect Analysis Report as of 2012/10/29
Hi Rob, Sure I can update this chart in my weekly report, please let me know how to do. 1. Where should I upload the data to 2. What the numbers mean, e.g. 2012-08-01,2316,1208, does this mean in 2012 Aug, 2316 defects opened and 1208 fixed? 2012/10/29 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com wrote: Please find weekly defect analysis report http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/Report/DefectStatus/20121029 Thanks for the report. Would it be possible to also get an update for this chart: http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.html ??? The data file is here: http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.txt Can I get the right numbers from that report? -Rob -- Thanks Best Regards, Yan Ji -- Thanks Best Regards, Yan Ji
Re: Is there something wrong with the templates wiki?
Thanks lan C and RGB. I know the reason now. Thank for your help.:) 2012/10/29 RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com 2012/10/29 Ian C i...@amham.net Hi, try http://templates.services.openoffice.org/ http://templates.openoffice.org/en works too Regards Ricardo And that link below failed for me too. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:28 PM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have some new presentation templates and I want to upload them to Apache Open Office templates wiki. But always failed to open the link: * http://http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_Social_Data templates.services.openoffice.org/* Is there something wrong with the wiki? Thanks. -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer -- Cheers, Ian C -- Best regards, Xin Li 李欣 UX designer
Re: [PROPOSAL] Initiate a Contest for Branding of 4.0
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote: KG01 - see comments inline. On Oct 27, 2012, at 7:16 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: On 26/10/2012 Ian Lynch wrote: I arranged one for the OOo schools mascot ... The winner was clear-cut. A 16 year old Italian boy who aspired to be a graphic designer. Here he is (by chance, he's called Andrea too): http://www.openoffice.org/editorial/interview_andrea_maggioni.html (EN) http://www.openoffice.org/it/stampa/comunicati/avv12.html (IT) A quick web search shows that in the end he managed to become a graphic designer indeed! The mascot is at the end of http://www.openoffice.org/marketing/education/schools/ but it didn't have that much recognition in the end. Indeed, as Ian pointed out, the main value of that competition was in getting media exposure; KG - Wouldn't the value in the contest be the new branding elements? I'm not sure that this is the best way to hold a marketing event. Any marketing that raises the profile of the brand is good, so there is a double value, add to that the possible additional community members that will accrue and we have a triple benefit From a UX design perspective, this approach presents risk. The branding is bound to the UI, and other supporting visual elements. Agreed, which is why there needs to be extensive UX input into the RFP We are just starting to explore the AOO branding and UX enhancements for AOO 4.0. I'd prefer we explore this in house first. Our problem is that we don't have an in-house, while there has been some progress, it has been glacial in it's pace and we need to get things moving. We have no goals other than vague references to 4.0 and I don't want to get to the point where branding is holding up a major release. From my point of view I feel that the first release of the AOO TLP should be 4.0, but that's just me talking from a purely marketing POV. We don't have our full inventory of requirements yet. And that is what the discussion leading to the RFP will be about I prefer that we defer this proposal. Regards, Kevin It is of course your right to put a -1 on this proposal but I think that would a mistake. The UX input into the RFP is essential and I feel the RFP is just the impetus we need to closely study and discuss the branding needs. Cheers GL
Re: [RELEASE]: new snapshot base don revision r1400866
Hi,all, I already run BVT on OO snapshot r1400866 Result: Passed with known issue. Details: http://people.apache.org/~liuzhe/testdashboard/#bvt Detail in 350m1(Build:9611)-2012-10-23 and 350m1(Build:9611)-2012-10-22, total 10 platforms Known Issues: Bug 119525 - AOo doesn't work with Java 1.7 on Windows https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=119525 Note: Error on Win7 32bit and Failure on Redhat passed with manual check. 2012/10/27 jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com Please allow a side-question. Can the UNO command also be used to identify where a string is used in the UI framework and not only the source code where it is programmed ? my problem is that I was told that it would be of high value to language QA if the system could provide screenshots showing where a string was used. But today I can relate a string to a source, and not to how I access/see it in a running AOO. I know I can build AOO to show the key identifiers which helps a lot, but it still does not help to find the string. Thanks for your help in advance. Jan. On 26 October 2012 21:16, Ariel Constenla-Haile arie...@apache.org wrote: Hi Ricardo, On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 08:24:26PM +0200, RGB ES wrote: On the forums we are testing the ES version and I have a doubt about non translated text on the UI: while there are some strings that comes from new code (new functions on Calc) there are other strings that are identical to the ones on 3.4.1... but on 3.5dev are not translated! For example, under Insertar (Insert) there is an entry Movie and Sound that it is not translated on 3.5 (on 3.4.1 says Vídeo y sonido). Is this something to worry about or it is better to wait until 3.5 is on Pootle and everything is correctly integrated? you can expect this with strings that are retrieved using the UNO command, the UNO command is what identifies every UI feature in the application framework; you can find them in the XML files that define menu bars and toolbars in the office installation, for example grep -r .uno:InsertAVMedia /opt/ openoffice.org/basis3.4/share/config/soffice.cfg/modules/ Labels for these commands are stored in configuration files. In this case, .uno:InsertAVMedia was moved to the right configuration place: * 3.4 branch, under Popups: http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/xref/aoo-AOO34/main/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/GenericCommands.xcu#5352 * trunk under Commands: http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/xref/aoo-trunk/main/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/GenericCommands.xcu#3075 Strings that were moved to the right category will appear untranslated, because they are now in fact different strings. There were also several commands that had the same string but were placed in different configuration files, these were moved to GenericCommands.xcu, but you shouldn't note a difference here (only when translating: several duplicated strings will be removed in 3.5). So, yes, the Pootle server is in 3.4, the developer snapshots are in 3.5, you'll have to wait until Pootle gets in sync with trunk. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina -- Best Wishes, LiFeng Wang
