Re: [openhealth] Creating the Free Medical Software Foundation
On Feb 16, 2008, at 9:31 AM, balu raman wrote: > I strongly suggest that you work with Dr.Bowen that already runs a > non-profit, oemr.org, for FOSS in healthcare, to avoid splintering > efforts. > > If I remember correctly, there was an attack on 'patientOS' with > the same reasoning. > > Regards, > balu raman > office manager > ryder brook pediatrics > morrisville, vt 05661 I'm not familiar OEMR, but if it stands for Open EMR, isn't that a particular product? In any case, I don't think anyone has a moral right to insist that anyone wanting to work in the area of open source medical applications do so under the aegis of their organization. I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. --Attributed to Confucius, 500 BCE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] Medsphere really is an open source company after all?
On Mar 6, 2007, at 4:51 AM, JohnLeo Zimmer, MD wrote: > Thus, Medsphere's GPL license can be applied only to the > <> > between OpenVista server and FOIA VistA. (Likewise, any modifications > World Vista makes to VistA.) Unfortunately, I don't think that's really feasible. It's rather like trying to isolate those parts of the human genome that are really human (as opposed to "merely" mammalian or primate). Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "We may with advantage at times forget what we know." --Publilius Cyrus, c. 100 B.C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] Medsphere really is an open source company after all?
On Mar 5, 2007, at 9:17 PM, Fred Trotter wrote: > Tim, > I suggest you wade through the mess under the blog post entitled > "Medsphere betrays community" on GPLmedicine.org. This is a very > complicated > situation and there is little short of understanding everything > that will > give clarity. I don't see how it clarifies your reference to the "original license". VistA is in the public domain in the sense that it may be obtained though FOIA. That's not the same as being licensed under an open source license. Indeed, speaking as a non-lawyer, I don't see how anyone can release VistA itself under GPL or any other license. At best, I'd think modifications to VistA could be released under an open source license. Medsphere's client is, of course, unrelated to VistA (unlike OpenVista, which I understand to be a modified form of VistA). Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Life can only be understood going backwards, but it must be lived going forwards." --Søren Kierkegaard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] Open standards are meaningless.
On Dec 2, 2006, at 12:51 PM, Fred Trotter wrote: > > Ignacio is saying that IP would be meaningless without an > implementation and > he is correct. TCP/IP was a success because of the focun rough > consensus AND > working code. > > -FT At any rate, I'm probably not aware of the full context here. I don't follow every thread here (Hardhats keeps me busy enough!) but this subject line got my attention. In my opinion, we ought to be fostering the development of open standards, not condemning them. I fully agree that standards must be implemented, even have multiple interoperable implementations from different code bases. But it would be illogical to toss out innovative work because such implementations do not (yet) exist. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." -- Mario Andretti [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] Open standards are meaningless.
On Dec 2, 2006, at 12:51 PM, Fred Trotter wrote: > Ignacio is saying that IP would be meaningless without an > implementation and > he is correct. TCP/IP was a success because of the focun rough > consensus AND > working code. > > -FT I know the slogan (and the paper) well. But the implementation still isn't the standard. I'm also well aware of the maturity levels in the IETF process. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Mathematics is the science of patterns." --Lynn Arthur Steen, 1988 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] Open standards are meaningless.
On Dec 2, 2006, at 11:13 AM, ivhalpc wrote: > Open standards alone are an artificial separation of code and data > that is un-tenable. Source code without data and data without source > code are not very useful. To be circular: a .odt (Open Document Text) > file without OpenOffice.org is a .odt file without Openoffice.org. > Major thinkers going back to Alan Turing have noted that the > artificial separation of code and data is just that: artificial. It is > like space-time. Time without space and space without time are > meaningless. You can argue with me on this, but I don't think I can be > convinced otherwise. Everytime I hear someone advocating open > standards without or against open source I remember this. > > -- IV Nonsense. If open standards (such as the IP suite of protocols) were meaningless, we wouldn't have an Internet today. BTW, I agree with you 100% on the point that the separation between code and data is artificial, but that is not the point. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "We may with advantage at times forget what we know." --Publilius Cyrus, c. 100 B.C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[openhealth] Wiki Book: Basic Physics of Nuclear Medicine
Okay experts, what do you think? http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Basic_Physics_of_Nuclear_Medicine Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Life can only be understood going backwards, but it must be lived going forwards." --Søren Kierkegaard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
On Nov 24, 2006, at 9:22 AM, David Forslund wrote: > This, IMHO, has been the weakness of HL7 in that it has blurred > the boundary of technology and semantics too much. I'm afraid I have little to add to that but "Hear! Hear!" Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Oh would that my mind could let fall its dead ideas, as the tree does its withered leaves." --André Gide [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] Re: GPs Revolt
On Nov 22, 2006, at 5:51 AM, Seref Arikan wrote: > Hi Will, > I'd be very much interested in hearing more about SeeBeyond going open > source. Would you please share any news on this one? I seem to recall an interface engine being renamed SeeBeyond some years ago, but I don't think it had anything to do with Sun. is this the same thing? Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "We may with advantage at times forget what we know." --Publilius Cyrus, c. 100 B.C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [openhealth] GPL (vs. BSD) style licenses lead to more collaboration and can be better for business
On Sep 22, 2006, at 10:25 AM, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: > http://www.dwheeler.com/blog/2006/09/01/#gpl-bsd > > David Wheeler is well known in free / open source software > circles.(e.g., http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html is a > periodically > updated classic). He makes an argument for why GPL is better than BSD > style licenses even for businesses. > > Regards > -- Bhaskar That's an interesting analysis. My perspective has been (is?) that the issue is primarily one of Linux reaching critical mass and becoming self-sustaining. After all, both Linux and FreeBSD appeal to the same basic market, and as one on OS gains more market share it tends to become the more attractive alternative to others, creating a positive feedback loop that decidedly favors the more popular OS. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Mathematics is the science of patterns." --Lynn Arthur Steen, 1988 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Re: VistA Office as 'open' EHR software
On Jun 25, 2006, at 5:18 AM, Nandalal Gunaratne wrote: > In addition, there can be claims for various > developers of the GUI for VistA, which was not in the > Public Domain. > > Nandalal I'm unsure what you mean here. CPRS was built using a commercial product called Delphi. but the source is in the public domain. Granted, if someone set out today to develop an open source product, this would be an unlikely platform choice, but that's not the way VistA started out life. I believe that alternative user interfaces have been developed as well, but they are different products, not VistA. There are a few options for building GUI interfaces to VistA, and there is nothing to stop developers from building new GUI applications for use in conjunction with VistA if they wish. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Judge a man by his questions not his answers." --Voltaire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[openhealth] VistA history (was: VistA GUI licencing)
On Jun 25, 2006, at 7:03 AM, Adrian Midgley wrote: > VistA's history has been a political hot potato for too long, > alternately suppressed or distorted. WorldVistA is launching the VistA > History Project to shine a spotlight..." > http://www.worldvista.org/AboutVistA/VistA_History/view?searchterm=GUI A useful resource is http://www.hardhats.org/history/HSTmain.html I look forward to learning more about the VistA History Project Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Judge a man by his questions not his answers." --Voltaire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] VistA Office as 'open' EHR software
On Jun 23, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Nandalal Gunaratne wrote: > What type of open source licence is likely to be used for these > implementations? "Public Domain" is a bit tricky on the legal > front, as legally it is owned by the US Public, and therefore, the > US government. They could refuse certain countries the free use of > VistA for political reasons for example? Not being a lawyer, I'll ask a naive question: It's one thing to choose to license your own work under GPL, but why would anyone think they could make another person's work into something licensed under GPL? If they can, is it right? (Okay, that's two questions.) Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Judge a man by his questions not his answers." --Voltaire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] VistA Office as 'open' EHR software
On Jun 21, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Tim Cook wrote: > > Hi Greg, I'd really rather let someone from WorldVistA address your specific points, but I think you're confusing VistA (which is in the public domain), with VistA Office EHR (VOE), which is not the same thing. I'll grant that it's a bit confusing how many different things there are out there that are effectively different flavors or derivatives of standard VistA. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Judge a man by his questions not his answers." --Voltaire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Forking a Process in Linux
On Jun 18, 2006, at 9:51 AM, Christian Heller wrote: > Questions: > > 1 Do I have to deallocate all duplicated resources in the child > process, > right after the "fork" and before running an "exec"? > (The new child process runs an external program that does not > need them.) The short answer is that if you perform an exec (of some variety) immediately after the fork, you're okay. As a matter of history, early versions of Unix did implement fork by creating a copy of the process, but this was really overkill for situation where you were only going to do an immediate exec, so a different call, named vfork was introduced to get around the problem of unnecessary resource allocation and de-allocation. But with modern kernels, this is no longer necessary, and calling fork does not carry any extra overhead. I've always thought it sounded like a curious way to create new processes, but if you think of fork as being part of an abstract model it makes a bit more sense. It sounds very much like something that a mathematician or computer scientist (who is primarily concerned with constructing correct proofs, not with writing code in a natural or efficient way) might come up with. By the way, I say this as someone who leans very much in the direction of computer science and mathematics. > > 2 Or, can I leave the duplicated resources just not paying attention > while the new child process is running and assuming that the "exit" > call of the child process will properly deallocate duplicated > resources? Yes, with the caveat given above (you should call exec/execv/execve immediately). > > 3 Isn't there a simpler way of starting an external program? > I cannot imagine that a desktop environment like KDE, for example, > starts applications with "fork" which copies all resources every > time, > only to destroy them right after, if the application does not > need them. The simplest way to start an external program is system (try man system) but it goes through an external shell. You can also write your own function to implement the usual fork/exec/wait incantation. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Judge a man by his questions not his answers." --Voltaire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/W4wwlB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] New file uploaded to openhealth
On Jun 4, 2006, at 11:28 AM, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: > Gregory Woodhouse wrote: > [KSB] <...snip...> > > > > I see that it has been standardized by OASIS, but are you sure it is > > an ISO standard? Of course, being standardized by OASIS is > nothing to > > sneeze at. > > > [KSB] http://www.odfalliance.org/press/AllianceRelease3May06.pdf > Congratulations. That's a nice coup for Linux and Open Office. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Metaphors be with you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] New file uploaded to openhealth
On Jun 4, 2006, at 9:24 AM, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: > Greg -- > > That's the new ISO Open Document Format standard. You can read it > with > OpenOfficce.org as well as several other applications (I think it is > supported by AbiWord and Kword). Soon there will be an MS Office > plugin > as well. > > Regards > -- Bhaskar I see that it has been standardized by OASIS, but are you sure it is an ISO standard? Of course, being standardized by OASIS is nothing to sneeze at. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Metaphors be with you. SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] New file uploaded to openhealth
On Jun 4, 2006, at 9:47 AM, Molly Cheah wrote: > See this http://www.themekit.com/t_odt12.htm Thanks. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Metaphors be with you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] New file uploaded to openhealth
On Jun 4, 2006, at 9:24 AM, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: > Greg -- > > That's the new ISO Open Document Format standard. You can read it > with > OpenOfficce.org as well as several other applications (I think it is > supported by AbiWord and Kword). Soon there will be an MS Office > plugin > as well. > > Regards > -- Bhaskar Interesting. Where can I read more about this format? Specifications perhaps? Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Metaphors be with you. SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] New file uploaded to openhealth
On Jun 4, 2006, at 8:50 AM, openhealth@yahoogroups.com wrote: > File : /OSHCA_framework.odt > Uploaded by : drcheah2000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Description : Draft proposal of OSHCA framework of activities - > 2006-2007. Input from community required. > > You can access this file at the URL: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/files/OSHCA_framework.odt What is the format of this file? I don't recognize the .odt extension. At an rate, OS X seems to think it might contain an application. Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Metaphors be with you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] Number of Linux and Windows Developers Equal in 2006
On Jun 3, 2006, at 9:04 PM, Gregory Woodhouse wrote: > So, if you're MUMPS developer working on VistA, what does that make > you? (Note that the two most common platforms for are Cache, which > runs under Windows and other platforms, and GT.M, which runs under > Linux, as well as some other platforms.) Oh, and don't worry, I know perfectly well that there's a difference between Windows programming per se and developing code (in say Java, Perl or Python) that runs under Windows. One thing that occurs to me, though, is that back when I was developing in Perl, I mostly did so under Windows, for purely pragmatic reasons. That doesn't mean I ever thought of myself as a Windows developer, though! Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Metaphors be with you. SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] Number of Linux and Windows Developers Equal in 2006
On Jun 3, 2006, at 8:29 PM, Ignacio Valdes wrote: > According to this Evans Data Corporation survey, the number of Linux > developers and Windows developers will be equal by the end of the > year ... So, if you're MUMPS developer working on VistA, what does that make you? (Note that the two most common platforms for are Cache, which runs under Windows and other platforms, and GT.M, which runs under Linux, as well as some other platforms.) Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Metaphors be with you. SPONSORED LINKS Software distribution Salon software Medical software Software association Software jewelry Software deployment YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [openhealth] Architecture Question - VistA and MHS enterprise architecture
On Mar 26, 2006, at 9:22 PM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: > Lorie, > > Not sure what you mean by OSHISin any case your best bet is to ask > this question on the VistA community's listserve (although Greg > Woodhouse may be able to answer it here): > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members Unfortunately, Greg Woodhouse is unfamiliar with the specific nomenclature here. Maybe you can help him out with some of the specific terminology. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible." --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
On Mar 25, 2006, at 9:01 PM, Tim.Churches wrote: > Certainly formal quality assurance mechanisms for health-related > software should be used where possible and reasonable, but it must > also > be remembered that the practice of medicine itself is, at worst, > guided > by a tradition of what seems to work as recorded in textbooks and > handed > down by traditional teaching, and at best by "evidence based practice" > which relies on meta-analyses of observational studies which have all > sorts of design and execution flaws, or on (hopefully double-blind) > RCTs > (randomised controlled trials) which typically have very limited > generalisability to wider populations. > > Tim C Ultimately, isn't the issue here whether we are concerned primarily with computer science, medicine (or perhaps both)? to be honest, the computer industry has not exactly done a stunning job in the quality department, but does that mean we can only respond with defeatism? In view, overemphasis on testing and process, to the exclusion of engineering principles is a major factor in our failure to develop reliable systems at a reasonable cost. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure failure." --Kent Beck Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] CCHIT biased towards proprietary software??
On Mar 25, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Joseph Dal Molin wrote: > and...at the risk of stating the obvious there should be some > mechanism for evaluating the certification authority and the > criteria... > Sadly, I don't know how many people are even thinking in those terms. What we are discussing here is software quality (meaning fitness for a particular purpose), and it may well be that people with the appropriate expertise are not well represented in this process. Worse, the current standard (in medicine, one might say "standard of care") in this area is heavily biased towards testing and informal (if any) requirements definition. Formal methods, automated proof systems, rigorous specifications, and so forth are all thought of as rather esoteric or "academic" (purposely using what Guy L. Steele perceptively called horror quotes in his thesis!) I know I've written correctness proofs for no reason but to satisfy myself that an algorithm I developed was correct. It's not such a terrible thing. Perhaps medicine is an area where we ought to start thinking about setting aside industry standard practice and thinking in terms of more rigorous methods of validating softwares -- which, after all is used in patient care! === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time" -- T.S. Eliot Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Re: OS at MedInfo 2007
uld you copy the > > substance of this reply to the openhealth list, as I am not on it - > > thought I was going to be added after the AMIA OSWG meeting in > November, > > but does not seem to have happened yet - I will copy this to AMIA > OSWG > > list). > > > > I think we should aim for something substantial at medinfo2007 in > the > > free/libre open source area - we can at least get an IMIA OSWG > activity > > of some kind, which we can open to any medinfo2007 attendees, but it > > might be useful to see if we can get enough momentum and interest to > > maybe have a full day or so 'in conjunction with medinfo2007' or > similar > > phrasing for as many groups and individuals as are interested. > > > > I have to confess that the IMIA OSWG has not been as active in > > organising events and things as I had hoped we might be - for > various > > reasons, but when I did try and pull together a 'critical mass' of > > things for MIE2005, I did not get much response from people. > > > > I will be seeing Joan Edgcumbe from HISA here at our UK health > > informatics event over the next few days - if I get the chance, I > will > > sound out with her possibilities and processes. > > > > So - I am all for trying to get something together - we need, at a > > minimun, to encourage FLOSS submissions (papers, panels, tutorials, > > workshops, etc) as part of the normal processes of papers etc for a > > scientific event; that way, we may be able to get a clearly > identifiable > > track/stream. We should be able to get some. I am keen to try and do > > more than this as well. > > > > Let's see what interest we can generate by getting a message out > to the > > various OS/FLOSS group lists and then see where we can take > things - we > > will probably need a 'loose coalition' of people to push things > among > > the various groups. > > > > Cheers, Peter Murray > > Chair, IMIA OSWG > > > > > > > > > > > -- > ______ > _ > CTO Ocean Informatics (http://www.OceanInformatics.biz) > Research Fellow, University College London (http:// > www.chime.ucl.ac.uk) > Chair Architectural Review Board, openEHR (http://www.openEHR.org) > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Software distribution Salon software Medical software > Software association Software jewelrySoftware deployment > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > Visit your group "openhealth" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine: it is stranger than we can imagine." --Sir Arthur Eddington [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Senator Endorses VistA for EHR Standard
On Jan 23, 2006, at 4:26 PM, Thomas Beale wrote: > Just to be clear on what I would want to see for VistA to be > considered > "open" in terms of interoperability: information models and service > models. You need both. If I ask VistA for an extract of someone's EHR, > how does my copmputer process it (Information model). How do I ask for > it? (Service model). Even if it isn't conceived in quite those terms, I believe a lot of the discussion on Hardhats right now goes a long way towards laying the foundation for the type of interoperability you describe. This is due to VistA adopters wanting the ability to import data (both patient data and standard files such as formularies and term sets). It is not as easy as it might appear at first blush, and I suspect a major problem here is that VistA adopters have not really felt it a sufficiently compelling problem (squeaky wheel syndrome and all that). > > I agree that it was/is a landmark in open source and a triumph over > bloody-mindedness in the US health system, and everyone involved > should > be proud of that. I have also seen it running, and it is impressive. If nothing else, it shows that it can be done. To a certain extent, I think people feel paralyzed by the magnitude of the task. Building a health information system is not a small thing, but neither is building an operating system kernel or designing an implementing a major new language. Do the people having the skills to build complex software systems have the expertise to know what to build? If I were to decide to build a new compiler, I would have a one significant thing going for me: computing *is* my area of expertise, and I have a reasonably good idea of what is involved in building a compiler. But I'm not a health care professional, which puts me at a decided disadvantage when it comes to designing a system. Conversely, health care professionals may not be experts in computing, and, consequently, do not have the same basic intuitions about what can be built, how difficult a given task is, and what the advantages and disadvantages of a design might be. VistA was initially built by health care professionals who learned how to program, and many of the most active participants in the hardhats community are practitioners. > But > - I think it is still fair to ask questions about interoperability. I do, too. Right now, the demand doesn't seem to be there -- at least to the degree needed to motivate the necessary work. But if VistA is widely adopted, it will become a necessity. Now, yes, VistA does have interfaces with a number of external systems. It does make extensive use of HL7. But at risk of offending others, I might add that many of the existing solutions are of a rather ad hoc nature (in the true sense of the term: they are designed to solve specific, immediate problems), and much less has been done to solve the wider problems of the type I believe you have in mind > My > impression is that it interoperates with itself only (and this is > not a > bad strategy - it works if you are the VHA with 100's of hospitals all > running VistA). I think that's right -- on both counts. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The most profound technologies are those that disappear." --Mark Weiser Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Dangerous idea -- quality
On Jan 7, 2006, at 6:46 PM, Tim.Churches wrote: > Gregory Woodhouse wrote: > > > > but I think the undefeated would > > not be content relying on testing to determine whether or not their > > software worked correctly. > > Um, if you don't rely on testing, then how do you determine that your > software works correctly or not? I thought that provably correct > software was still in the research labs? I guess it's a matter of what you hope to achieve. Formal methods are certainly not without practical application: I've written correctness proofs for critical portions of my code (not because anyone asked me to, but for my own peace of mind). > ADA makes a stab at it, which > is why the US Dept of Defence loves it (they never make mistakes like > bombing innocent families in Baghdad, right?), but geez, look at the > costs. Similarly languages like Eiffel go to pains to make it hard > (but > not impossible) to make mistakes due to extensive use of > programming-by-contract and pre- and post-conditions etc. Functional languages do a good job at maintaining referential transparency, too. There are a lot of things that can be done, and that's really the point: I'm not suggesting that there is any kind of panacea out there that will easily solve all problems, only that being content to relegate quality to testing and popular methods of formalizing the software process is an admission of defeat.We are defeated when we stop trying. > But even then, > such languages do nothing to check that the higher-level design of > software is correct. And there's that pesky halting problem, too. Provable correctness of programs (as opposed to algorithms) is a tough problem. Other alternatives exist, too, such as metaprogramming and code generation. If a program fails, how often do you blame that failure on the compiler? Of course, sometimes it is the compiler (but less often than you might think). Why do you suppose this is? One might argue that the code is thoroughly tested, but since each program is different, it seems that compilers are actually less thoroughly tested than typical application programs. The difference is that there is a highly developed theory of compiler design, and code is developed in a principled way. This is often not the case for application software. > > I'm still curious as to what you suggest as an alternative or > adjunct to > testing, if anything? Or are you just an extreme optimist? I suppose you could call it an adjunct. I'm not suggesting we abandon testing, only that to the extent that we are content (and that's really the key) to rely on testing, we have admitted defeat. > > Tim C > === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made." -- Albert Einstein Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [openhealth] Dangerous idea -- quality
On Jan 7, 2006, at 3:41 PM, Tim.Churches wrote: > Gregory Woodhouse wrote: > > Relying on process and testing as a means of achieving software > > quality is an admission of defeat > > Um, are you suggesting that the undefeated write software which is > always completely defect-free, without the need for any form of > process > and testing? No, that's not quite what I said, but I think the undefeated would not be content relying on testing to determine whether or not their software worked correctly. > > I agree that slavish, mindless adherence to process is not a > substitute > for putting one's brain in gear and really thinking through the issues > of software quality. But I can't conceive of any approach to software > quality that doesn't involve testing. > > No testing? Now that IS a dangerous idea! Thank you. :-) === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "You must unlearn what you have learned." --Yoda Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[openhealth] Dangerous idea -- quality
Relying on process and testing as a means of achieving software quality is an admission of defeat === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time" -- T.S. Eliot Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/openhealth/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
