[osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? asks Steven J Vaughan Nichols in ComputerWorld. People outside of IT seldom think of Oracle as a Linux company, but it is. Not only does Oracle encourage its customers to use its own house-brand clone of RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), Oracle Unbreakable Linux, Oracle has long used Linux internally both on its servers and on some of its desktops. So, what does a Linux company like Oracle wants to do with its newly purchased Sun's open-source operating system, OpenSolaris? The answer appears to be: "Nothing." Sun, Oracle and third-party sources are telling me that OpenSolaris developers are afraid that they'll be either moved over to working on Linux or let go once the Sun/Oracle merger is completed. Other Sun open-source managers have expressed concern that their jobs may disappear once Oracle has acquired Sun. This can't come as much of a surprise. Edward Screven, Oracle's Chief Corporate Architect, said last year, ""Oracle definitely runs on Linux. We have very few servers in our infrastructure that are not Linux; that support, you know, internal IT systems, very few. And even the ones that continue to exist are on a plan to be phased out. So we definitely run our business on Linux. In fact, I mean, our entire IT infrastructure is Linux, our entire development infrastructure as well. So, you know, our development platform is Oracle Enterprise Linux. Our test platform is Oracle Enterprise Linux." http://blogs.computerworld.com/is_oracle_getting_ready_to_kill_opensolaris -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Don't feed the trolls! Ben Rockwood has a level headed reply to SJVN's uninformed ranting: http://cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=1047 On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Amitava Dutta wrote: > Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? > > asks Steven J Vaughan Nichols in ComputerWorld. > > People outside of IT seldom think of Oracle as a Linux company, but it is. > Not only does Oracle encourage its customers to use its own house-brand > clone of RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), Oracle Unbreakable Linux, Oracle > has long used Linux internally both on its servers and on some of its > desktops. So, what does a Linux company like Oracle wants to do with its > newly purchased Sun's open-source operating system, OpenSolaris? The answer > appears to be: "Nothing." > > Sun, Oracle and third-party sources are telling me that OpenSolaris > developers are afraid that they'll be either moved over to working on Linux > or let go once the Sun/Oracle merger is completed. Other Sun open-source > managers have expressed concern that their jobs may disappear once Oracle > has acquired Sun. > > This can't come as much of a surprise. Edward Screven, Oracle's Chief > Corporate Architect, said last year, ""Oracle definitely runs on Linux. We > have very few servers in our infrastructure that are not Linux; that > support, you know, internal IT systems, very few. And even the ones that > continue to exist are on a plan to be phased out. So we definitely run our > business on Linux. In fact, I mean, our entire IT infrastructure is Linux, > our entire development infrastructure as well. So, you know, our development > platform is Oracle Enterprise Linux. Our test platform is Oracle Enterprise > Linux." > > > > http://blogs.computerworld.com/is_oracle_getting_ready_to_kill_opensolaris > -- > This message posted from opensolaris.org > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org > ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
from my point of view, they are not going to kill solaris neither opensolaris, but get all the nice functionalities to build a real OS, and not just copy RHEL, that for sure, they know what people are talking about this copy, and for sure they won't be stand doing nothing. For me the chances to keep solaris and opensolaris are more valid and understandable than keeping "their linux". they are just saying that linux is the best because they released their version, because as you all know, oracle always said that solaris is the best OS to run oracle db(just an example). now that they have solaris, it's going to be even better, and they will come back to say the same as some years ago. that's my opinion. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Amitava Dutta wrote: > Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? > > asks Steven J Vaughan Nichols in ComputerWorld. > > People outside of IT seldom think of Oracle as a Linux company, but it is. > Not only does Oracle encourage its customers to use its own house-brand > clone of RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), Oracle Unbreakable Linux, Oracle > has long used Linux internally both on its servers and on some of its > desktops. So, what does a Linux company like Oracle wants to do with its > newly purchased Sun's open-source operating system, OpenSolaris? The answer > appears to be: "Nothing." > > Sun, Oracle and third-party sources are telling me that OpenSolaris > developers are afraid that they'll be either moved over to working on Linux > or let go once the Sun/Oracle merger is completed. Other Sun open-source > managers have expressed concern that their jobs may disappear once Oracle > has acquired Sun. > > This can't come as much of a surprise. Edward Screven, Oracle's Chief > Corporate Architect, said last year, ""Oracle definitely runs on Linux. We > have very few servers in our infrastructure that are not Linux; that > support, you know, internal IT systems, very few. And even the ones that > continue to exist are on a plan to be phased out. So we definitely run our > business on Linux. In fact, I mean, our entire IT infrastructure is Linux, > our entire development infrastructure as well. So, you know, our development > platform is Oracle Enterprise Linux. Our test platform is Oracle Enterprise > Linux." > > > > http://blogs.computerworld.com/is_oracle_getting_ready_to_kill_opensolaris > -- > This message posted from opensolaris.org > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org > ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Oh look, another "tech journalist" with zero facts who instead dreams up a sensationalist story to draw hits to his site because he's lonely and CW need the advertising dollars. Yawn. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Sun / Oracle should just do the exact same thing that Red Hat does with Linux. Let's see here. Red Hat supports two distributions that are based on the same code: Fedora is a rapidly changing community based distribution that is provided free of charge and incorporates the newest bits for testing , while Red Hat Enterprise Linux is a paid for distribution that is more conservative and has long term support for large enterprises. Sun and OpenSolaris should be the exact same thing. Solaris Express should evolve into "Solaris 11" which will be like Sun's "Red Hat Enterprise Linux". Since it's almost exactly the same as "Solaris 10" (except for low level changes like ZFS root, more device drivers, crossbow, etc.) there will be minimal pain for large existing Sun customers such as e-bay to move from "Solaris 10" to "Solaris 11". OpenSolaris 2010.xx Indiana and all of the rest of the distributions (Belenix, OSUNIX, StormOS, Nexenta, Milax, Martux, Schillix, etc. etc.) can be like Fedora. They are community supported distributions that have the newest bits where we're not sure if these bits will eventually make it into mainline Solaris or not (of course support can also be purchased for OpenSolaris 2010.xx if you want it). This arrangement makes everybody happy. Big enterprise customers like UX-admin get a "Solaris 11" that is 100% backwards compatible with Solaris 10. People who want something more Linux can use OpenSolaris 2010.xx Indiana or Nexenta / StormOS and can still buy support from Sun for Indiana. Just my 2 cents. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Also, if you read what Larry Ellison says here: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9131829/Oracle_s_Sun_buy_Ellison_praises_Solaris_thumbs_nose_at_IBM he says the following: "The Solaris operating system is by far the best Unix technology available in the market," Now, as far as I know, all the Linux heads including the Linux developers at Oracle consider Linux to be a "Unix-technology" or a "UNIX-like technology", don't they. So if Larry Ellison says that Solaris is the best Unix technology, isn't he saying, in a way, that Solaris is a better Unix technology than Linux? It is if you think about it. Forget about all the Dtrace and ZFS goodness that's in newer Solaris, and forget about the GNU userland and how much easier it is to build FOSS software if you have the right versions of gcc, gmake, etc. in your $PATH variable on a Linux box. Let's forget about all that user-land stuff and just compare the core parts of the Linux and Solaris operating systems (i.e. the kernel, process management, etc.) and try to answer the following questions: Does the Linux kernel have a stable device driver interface? Does the Linux kernel have a debugger that's as good as if not better than mdb is on Solaris? Is it easier to analyze core dump files from a kernel panic on Linux than it is on Solaris? Does Linux have a way of managing services and processes that is better than SMF? Does the Linux kernel have better resource management than the Solaris kernel does? Does the Linux kernel have a way of managing network resources that is better than Crossbow? Does the Linux kernel have a way of partitioning the system into sub-systems that is better than Solaris zones? OpenVZ and Virtuozzo are not as good as zones IMO. Does the Linux kernel have anything for security that's comparable to what Trusted Solaris and zones with Trusted extensions offer? Now ask yourself this question: Would Larry Ellison rather continue to help out his enemies at Red Hat and IBM by having his developers write 1% to 5% of the Linux kernel for them? Or would he rather have his own open source Oracle operating system that Red Hat and IBM can't benefit from because it's released under a different open source license that has subtle incompatibilities with the GPL? I work on Red Hat Linux machines for a living. Red Hat Linux is my bread and butter. It's what pays my bills (I don't make any money from anything related to OpenSolaris), and I don't see a mass migration of customers from Red Hat Enterprise Linux to Oracle Unbreakable Linux, so what exactly is Oracle getting (in terms of profits) from Oracle Unbreakable Linux vs. what they would get from supporting the entire installed base of all the Solaris OS instances currently in production (this is a VERY big installed base). Just in terms of dollars and cents value, I think Oracle will get a much higher return on investment from Solaris / OpenSolaris than they will from trying to be part of the dime-a-dozen RHEL copy-cat crowd (i.e. CentOS, Scientific Linux, etc. etc.), and Larry obviously got where he is by being a smart guy, so he's smart enough to realize this as well. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Here's another article that I think hints at why Larry wanted to buy Sun: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10173701-16.html -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
If you read down a little bit in the article, you'll see a part where it says: "Oracle also reserves the right to stop supporting its Linux customers at any time (PDF): It may become necessary as a part of Oracle's support life cycle to desupport certain Enterprise Linux and Oracle VM program releases and, therefore, Oracle reserves the right to desupport certain Enterprise Linux and Oracle VM program releases." This is one of the reasons why the places where I work at use Red Hat Enterprise Linux and not Oracle Unbreakable Linux. If there is any kind of a migration afoot in the Linux community, it's from Red Hat to Ubuntu Server and NOT from Red Hat to Oracle Unbreakable Linux (FYI: I never said I was for or against Oracle Unbreakable Linux, I'm just telling it how I see it). The "Ubuntu Server" distribution (not to be confused with the Ubuntu desktop distribution with the fecal brown coloured desktop) is one of the most under-rated server operating systems out there IMO. First time I used it, I was thinking- "Wow, this is exactly like Debian, except it has more frequent updates and MUCH better hardware support." I always had a soft-spot in my heart for Debian, so I guess I might be a little biased. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
The author of that article at ComputerWorld is often wrong about things. He really thought that Oracle would buy Red Hat and that IBM would buy Sun. If I had to get my crystal ball out, I think the cards are really stacked against "Unbreakable Linux" as its ties to Red Hat are not really in the best interests of Oracle. Oracle can make more money and has greater control with Solaris and OpenSolaris. Also, with the way things work, you can't really get rid of OpenSolaris without getting rid of Solaris since all the dev work is done in the OpenSolaris/Nevada space and then back-ported to Solaris 10 where possible. So it's extremely doubtful Oracle would not support Solaris/OpenSolaris as over 80% of Oracle's customers run on Solaris today. Not to mention that the FUD about Oracle running almost entirely on Linux is a load of BS. As for things like xVM Server.. there is a chance that Oracle/Sun will try to take VirtualBox to a type 1 hypervisor, which I think would be the right direction to go. Following in the Xen path is not as profitable as there are too many vendors and open-source competition with little cohesiveness. MySQL will continue to hang around on the low-end, just has Oracle keeps BerkeleyDB and Siebel around;) What I think people don't get is that Oracle is about making a profit and competing against IBM and HP directly. This is Oracle's bid to go from just making software to providing a total solution.. from hardware to software. This is their goal. Linux doesn't bring in a lot of many for anyone, even Red Hat doesn't make that much money on RHEL.. they make more money on JBoss. At the end of the day, Oracle wants to make a profit and only buys stuff to add to its portfolio. With Sun, they'll be able to break their ties to Red Hat for Unbreakable Linux, HP for their hardware appliance, etc. It's a win all the way around for Oracle and Sun. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Octave J. Orgeron Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com E-Mail: unixcons...@yahoo.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* - Original Message From: Amitava Dutta To: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:41:26 PM Subject: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? asks Steven J Vaughan Nichols in ComputerWorld. People outside of IT seldom think of Oracle as a Linux company, but it is. Not only does Oracle encourage its customers to use its own house-brand clone of RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), Oracle Unbreakable Linux, Oracle has long used Linux internally both on its servers and on some of its desktops. So, what does a Linux company like Oracle wants to do with its newly purchased Sun's open-source operating system, OpenSolaris? The answer appears to be: "Nothing." Sun, Oracle and third-party sources are telling me that OpenSolaris developers are afraid that they'll be either moved over to working on Linux or let go once the Sun/Oracle merger is completed. Other Sun open-source managers have expressed concern that their jobs may disappear once Oracle has acquired Sun. This can't come as much of a surprise. Edward Screven, Oracle's Chief Corporate Architect, said last year, ""Oracle definitely runs on Linux. We have very few servers in our infrastructure that are not Linux; that support, you know, internal IT systems, very few. And even the ones that continue to exist are on a plan to be phased out. So we definitely run our business on Linux. In fact, I mean, our entire IT infrastructure is Linux, our entire development infrastructure as well. So, you know, our development platform is Oracle Enterprise Linux. Our test platform is Oracle Enterprise Linux." http://blogs.computerworld.com/is_oracle_getting_ready_to_kill_opensolaris -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? Nope. If Oracle means to "kill" OpenSolaris, what could they actually do? They could fire all the Solaris people and stop all corporate funding, sure but are they going to do that, no. The dude who wrote that article clearly is a big IBM fan and he even wrote an article about why it would have been better for IBM to get Sun than Oracle. If IBM had gotten Sun you can bet Solaris would be toast; as would Sparc, Star Office, Java as we know it and anything else that was distinctively Sun. With Oracle we will see the continuation of all of these. Will Solaris be important to Oracle? I don't know but it only makes sense that they would try to make money off of it rather then kill it. I am now a Solaris user, or rather an OpenSolaris user. I am finally away from Windows and using an OS that I can get along with (God surely knows how much I could not get along with Linux). Even if Oracle kills Solaris, that will not stop me from using it. The CDDL even says as much. You have Belenix in India, Jaris in Japan, Schillix in Europe, and half a dozen others that are all taking advantage of OpenSolaris technology and building operating systems out of them. Oracle couldn't kill Solaris if they wanted to at this point. Perhaps main development will move out of the US but development will go on. With all the clear advantages that Solaris has over Linux the only way that Oracle could stop Solaris from eventually overtaking Linux and eventually Windows is to GPL it. That would be the only way to kill OpenSolaris. If they GPLed it, then the Linux guys could copy it directly into the Linux kernel (Linux is really just a Solaris copying thing anyway). If that happened, all the development would move to Linux and the new "unified" system. As it is now I like that Linux has their ground and here with Solaris we have our ground. Linux is junk, and I am sorry if that offends people but it is and if something breaks then it could not possible be the developer's fault. It must always be the user's fault. I hate that about Linux. I know that it is a volunteer project but even if you volunteer take the blame if you write bad code. Linux will always be a pre-beta/ beta at best. It will never be ready for my computer because they don't weed out bugs the way they should, not even with Ubuntu. They expect you to have a Ph.D. in computer science to use their OS. That is asking too much of me. Solaris doesn't ask that of me. I install it, it works, I move on with my life. Not so with Linux. With Linux you have to dedicate several hours of your free time everyday to making sure you OS continues to work. That is asking too much of anyone. Solaris works and works great. If Oracle has any sense then they will put all their Linux resources into Solaris and make money with it. Because Linux is always playing catchup and always trying to do the same thing but without violating copyright, it will always be convoluted code. I don't like that. Solaris works, I want Solaris and if Oracle wants money then they should realize that there is a market of people who will pay to get Solaris. We have a winner here. I would gladly pay $200 or $300 to get Solaris 11 when it comes out as long as it has the IPS, all the goodies that are now in SXCE and I get customer support. Is that too much to ask. If they work out a deal, they probably could include the Fluendo codecies and DVD player for just a little more so that we don't have to buy it on the side. If Oracle doesn't see that they could make money with this I sure hope they don't get mad if someone else comes along and takes this exact formula and make millions with it. Linux would be so jealous, they would probably accuse them of some evil or another for making a profit. Is anyone else sick and tired of the constant attacks on Solaris? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Really I don't think there are many "attacks" on Solaris anyway, just a few vocal drongo's who think people wish to hear their opinions. On the whole I hear positive things especially since Solaris 10... On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 7:54 PM, david wrote: > Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? Nope. > > If Oracle means to "kill" OpenSolaris, what could they actually do? They > could fire all the Solaris people and stop all corporate funding, sure but > are they going to do that, no. > > The dude who wrote that article clearly is a big IBM fan and he even wrote > an article about why it would have been better for IBM to get Sun than > Oracle. If IBM had gotten Sun you can bet Solaris would be toast; as would > Sparc, Star Office, Java as we know it and anything else that was > distinctively Sun. With Oracle we will see the continuation of all of > these. Will Solaris be important to Oracle? I don't know but it only makes > sense that they would try to make money off of it rather then kill it. > > I am now a Solaris user, or rather an OpenSolaris user. I am finally away > from Windows and using an OS that I can get along with (God surely knows how > much I could not get along with Linux). Even if Oracle kills Solaris, that > will not stop me from using it. The CDDL even says as much. You have > Belenix in India, Jaris in Japan, Schillix in Europe, and half a dozen > others that are all taking advantage of OpenSolaris technology and building > operating systems out of them. Oracle couldn't kill Solaris if they wanted > to at this point. Perhaps main development will move out of the US but > development will go on. > > With all the clear advantages that Solaris has over Linux the only way that > Oracle could stop Solaris from eventually overtaking Linux and eventually > Windows is to GPL it. That would be the only way to kill OpenSolaris. If > they GPLed it, then the Linux guys could copy it directly into the Linux > kernel (Linux is really just a Solaris copying thing anyway). If that > happened, all the development would move to Linux and the new "unified" > system. > > As it is now I like that Linux has their ground and here with Solaris we > have our ground. Linux is junk, and I am sorry if that offends people but > it is and if something breaks then it could not possible be the developer's > fault. It must always be the user's fault. I hate that about Linux. I > know that it is a volunteer project but even if you volunteer take the blame > if you write bad code. Linux will always be a pre-beta/ beta at best. It > will never be ready for my computer because they don't weed out bugs the way > they should, not even with Ubuntu. They expect you to have a Ph.D. in > computer science to use their OS. That is asking too much of me. Solaris > doesn't ask that of me. I install it, it works, I move on with my life. > Not so with Linux. With Linux you have to dedicate several hours of your > free time everyday to making sure you OS continues to work. That is asking > too much of anyone. > > Solaris works and works great. If Oracle has any sense then they will put > all their Linux resources into Solaris and make money with it. Because > Linux is always playing catchup and always trying to do the same thing but > without violating copyright, it will always be convoluted code. I don't > like that. Solaris works, I want Solaris and if Oracle wants money then > they should realize that there is a market of people who will pay to get > Solaris. We have a winner here. > > I would gladly pay $200 or $300 to get Solaris 11 when it comes out as long > as it has the IPS, all the goodies that are now in SXCE and I get customer > support. Is that too much to ask. If they work out a deal, they probably > could include the Fluendo codecies and DVD player for just a little more so > that we don't have to buy it on the side. If Oracle doesn't see that they > could make money with this I sure hope they don't get mad if someone else > comes along and takes this exact formula and make millions with it. Linux > would be so jealous, they would probably accuse them of some evil or another > for making a profit. > > Is anyone else sick and tired of the constant attacks on Solaris? > -- > This message posted from opensolaris.org > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org > ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Amitava Dutta wrote: > Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? > > asks Steven J Vaughan Nichols in ComputerWorld. > > People outside of IT seldom think of Oracle as a Linux company, but it is. > Not only does Oracle encourage its customers to use its own house-brand clone > of RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), Oracle Unbreakable Linux, Oracle has long > used Linux internally both on its servers and on some of its desktops. So, > what does a Linux company like Oracle wants to do with its newly purchased > Sun's open-source operating system, OpenSolaris? The answer appears to be: > "Nothing." > > Sun, Oracle and third-party sources are telling me that OpenSolaris > developers are afraid that they'll be either moved over to working on Linux > or let go once the Sun/Oracle merger is completed. Other Sun open-source > managers have expressed concern that their jobs may disappear once Oracle has > acquired Sun. > > This can't come as much of a surprise. Edward Screven, Oracle's Chief > Corporate Architect, said last year, ""Oracle definitely runs on Linux. We > have very few servers in our infrastructure that are not Linux; that support, > you know, internal IT systems, very few. And even the ones that continue to > exist are on a plan to be phased out. So we definitely run our business on > Linux. In fact, I mean, our entire IT infrastructure is Linux, our entire > development infrastructure as well. So, you know, our development platform is > Oracle Enterprise Linux. Our test platform is Oracle Enterprise Linux." > > > > http://blogs.computerworld.com/is_oracle_getting_ready_to_kill_opensolaris Sure, Sun's top-management lets everything down while agreeing to any takeover. They should have continued in trying to rescue Sun and to SOMEHOW keep it independent. I'm not a Sun employee. But I can imagine how disappointed they - we - all must be! However, read Ben Rookwood's comment to above article: http://cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=1047 ... Read More OpenSolaris will NEVER DIE OUT. Nor will MySQL or VirtualBox or Java! We will just not let this happen!!! Period. I am very confident about this. And this only apllies to the worst case of cases, if Oracle really dares to lay-off Sun's best engineers. While they should really think about it twice, before attempting to do so. It would be a clear and obvious breach of trust / their word. And the UNIX community will make Hamburgers out of them! So, let's hope the best. Мартин ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
It is extremely annoying that journalistic hacks attack something they know nothing about. I was considering putting a blog post out about it, but decided not to in the end as it's just a waste of time and Ben already go there before me:) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Octave J. Orgeron Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com E-Mail: unixcons...@yahoo.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* - Original Message From: david To: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:54:03 AM Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? Nope. If Oracle means to "kill" OpenSolaris, what could they actually do? They could fire all the Solaris people and stop all corporate funding, sure but are they going to do that, no. The dude who wrote that article clearly is a big IBM fan and he even wrote an article about why it would have been better for IBM to get Sun than Oracle. If IBM had gotten Sun you can bet Solaris would be toast; as would Sparc, Star Office, Java as we know it and anything else that was distinctively Sun. With Oracle we will see the continuation of all of these. Will Solaris be important to Oracle? I don't know but it only makes sense that they would try to make money off of it rather then kill it. I am now a Solaris user, or rather an OpenSolaris user. I am finally away from Windows and using an OS that I can get along with (God surely knows how much I could not get along with Linux). Even if Oracle kills Solaris, that will not stop me from using it. The CDDL even says as much. You have Belenix in India, Jaris in Japan, Schillix in Europe, and half a dozen others that are all taking advantage of OpenSolaris technology and building operating systems out of them. Oracle couldn't kill Solaris if they wanted to at this point. Perhaps main development will move out of the US but development will go on. With all the clear advantages that Solaris has over Linux the only way that Oracle could stop Solaris from eventually overtaking Linux and eventually Windows is to GPL it. That would be the only way to kill OpenSolaris. If they GPLed it, then the Linux guys could copy it directly into the Linux kernel (Linux is really just a Solaris copying thing anyway). If that happened, all the development would move to Linux and the new "unified" system. As it is now I like that Linux has their ground and here with Solaris we have our ground. Linux is junk, and I am sorry if that offends people but it is and if something breaks then it could not possible be the developer's fault. It must always be the user's fault. I hate that about Linux. I know that it is a volunteer project but even if you volunteer take the blame if you write bad code. Linux will always be a pre-beta/ beta at best. It will never be ready for my computer because they don't weed out bugs the way they should, not even with Ubuntu. They expect you to have a Ph.D. in computer science to use their OS. That is asking too much of me. Solaris doesn't ask that of me. I install it, it works, I move on with my life. Not so with Linux. With Linux you have to dedicate several hours of your free time everyday to making sure you OS continues to work. That is asking too much of anyone. Solaris works and works great. If Oracle has any sense then they will put all their Linux resources into Solaris and make money with it. Because Linux is always playing catchup and always trying to do the same thing but without violating copyright, it will always be convoluted code. I don't like that. Solaris works, I want Solaris and if Oracle wants money then they should realize that there is a market of people who will pay to get Solaris. We have a winner here. I would gladly pay $200 or $300 to get Solaris 11 when it comes out as long as it has the IPS, all the goodies that are now in SXCE and I get customer support. Is that too much to ask. If they work out a deal, they probably could include the Fluendo codecies and DVD player for just a little more so that we don't have to buy it on the side. If Oracle doesn't see that they could make money with this I sure hope they don't get mad if someone else comes along and takes this exact formula and make millions with it. Linux would be so jealous, they would probably accuse them of some evil or another for making a profit. Is anyone else sick and tired of the constant attacks on Solaris? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Also, Ellisson said something about Oracle having more Solaris installations than Linux installations. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Yup, ~80% of their customers are on Solaris. I think that pretty much settles it when you think about it. Oracle is in business to make money, not pander to the Linux folks. If their paying customers are on Solaris and they own it, it's the platform of choice, simple as that. Oracle will make more money on selling an integrated software and hardware stack running Solaris on x86 or SPARC than running Unbreakable Linux. It's interesting hearing their marketing droids push for Linux and then have their senior engineers push for Solaris. Main argument being that unless you invest in high-end interconnects like Infiniband, it's cheaper and faster to scale up on Solaris than to scale out on Linux. Last I heard, Oracle still runs its own ERP system on E25k's. *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Octave J. Orgeron Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com E-Mail: unixcons...@yahoo.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* - Original Message From: Orvar Korvar To: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:23:32 AM Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris? Also, Ellisson said something about Oracle having more Solaris installations than Linux installations. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Anon Y Mous wrote: > Sun / Oracle should just do the exact same thing that Red Hat does with Linux. > > Let's see here. Red Hat supports two distributions that are based on the same > code: > > Fedora is a rapidly changing community based distribution that is provided > free of charge and incorporates the newest bits for testing , while Red Hat > Enterprise Linux is a paid for distribution that is more conservative and has > long term support for large enterprises. > > Sun and OpenSolaris should be the exact same thing. That's pretty much the plan we've been working towards for the past two years. (Though unlike the other part of your suggestion, we're not going to maintain a separate install & packaging system for Solaris, but will replace Solaris Express with the OpenSolaris installer & packaging.) -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
> (Though unlike the other part of your suggestion, > we're not going to > maintain a separate install & packaging system for > Solaris, but will > replace Solaris Express with the OpenSolaris > installer & packaging.) That's lovely; you (plural) will phase out a stable packaging subsystem in favor of a Python-cobbled together experiment that explicitly DOES NOT ALLOW SCRIPTING. I'd just like someone to tell me just how I'm supposed to remove my Oracle database with an IPS package. And if anyone writes "SMF", then I'd like to know just how exactly will I run an SMF method to remove a database, when IPS doesn't allow scripting. In closing, I'm convinced that IPS in his current shape or form is one of the biggest technical mistakes in the history of SunOS. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
On 17/07/2009, at 12:05 PM, UNIX admin wrote: (Though unlike the other part of your suggestion, we're not going to maintain a separate install & packaging system for Solaris, but will replace Solaris Express with the OpenSolaris installer & packaging.) That's lovely; you (plural) will phase out a stable packaging subsystem in favor of a Python-cobbled together experiment that explicitly DOES NOT ALLOW SCRIPTING. I'd just like someone to tell me just how I'm supposed to remove my Oracle database with an IPS package. And if anyone writes "SMF", then I'd like to know just how exactly will I run an SMF method to remove a database, when IPS doesn't allow scripting. In closing, I'm convinced that IPS in his current shape or form is one of the biggest technical mistakes in the history of SunOS. Thanks for the feedback - have a great weekend. Glynn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
UNIX admin wrote: > I'd just like someone to tell me just how I'm supposed to remove my Oracle > database with an IPS package. And if anyone writes "SMF", then I'd like to > know just how exactly will I run an SMF method to remove a database, when IPS > doesn't allow scripting. By using the IPS action to specify an SMF service to be called. IPS doesn't deny all scripting, it just doesn't provide support for arbitrary scripts to be run during all the places previous packaging systems did.Some of that functionality is replaced by standard IPS actions - for instance, instead of having 500 copies of the "install a driver" script, one in every package, IPS just has one that comes with IPS, and provides a single place to fix bugs.Other functionality is replaced by having hooks for SMF services to be run - knowing that those will always be running in the target environment, not on the diskless client's server, the previous OS version being upgraded from, or any of the dozen other contexts that led to SVR4 packaging scripts becoming a nightmare of pkgcond tests and if/elif/elif/elif/else clauses. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
This article (from the same guy who wrote the glowing pro-Sun Rock Processor Transactional Memory article I posted in another discuss thread) is one of the best antidotes I have yet read to Steven J Vaughan Nichols's retarded anti-Solaris Computer World article. Instead of countering Vaughn's insanity with well thought out rational arguments like Ben Rockwood does, this just makes a humorous mockery of it (focuses more on MySQL and Oracle's previous success or lack thereof with Linux, but still a very entertaining read). Be warned, if you are easily offended by grownup language (or by what 13 year old teenagers consider to be grownup language) then you might not enjoy it as much as I do. Here's page 1: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/27/dziuba_sunacle/ and here's page 2: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/27/dziuba_sunacle/page2.html There's some great quotable quotes in there. My favorite is the one on page 2 where he says: "With the attention span of a fruit fly, your average web programmer is quick to latch on to new technologies. After all, as a web developer, you can't appear publicly to be older than thirty." Touche! -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Ted Dziuba (the author with the potty mouth in the above article) used to work as a programmer / engineer / mathematician for Google a few years back, just in case some of you were wondering what rock this guy has been hiding under for the last few years or so. Now I guess he writes columns for frilled-shirt British IT magazines in the UK. I don't always agree with his colorful choice of language, but his writing does definitely take some of the edge off if you're having a stressful day at work. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
OReilly Media just did this parody article making fun of SJV Nichols's Computer World article: Is Oracle getting ready to kill Unbreakable Linux? http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/07/is-oracle-getting-ready-to-kil.html My guess is neither article is really right. Unbreakable Linux can't be killed because it's not an operating system. It's a cheaper (and reportedly better) support contract system for RHEL. OpenSolaris can't be killed because it's basically Solaris Nevada with CDE and the installer and a bunch of other goodies (flash archive, etc.) taken out and a Debian style package management system put in. Red Hat is trapped in a classic pincer attack- like Hannibal defeating the Romans at the battle of Cannae: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae with Unbreakable Linux outflanking them on the left and OpenSolaris outflanking them on the right. Should be interesting to see how this turns out. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Although we don't use it in any of the data centers that I've worked at (we either pay the exhorbitant, over-priced Red Hat support fees or use CentOS free of charge), I suspect that Oracle's Unbreakable Enterprise Linux is probably doing a lot better than people around here give it credit for doing. They already had a decent customer base of 26 major customers back in March 2007, as reading the article at the following link below will show: http://www.cbronline.com/news/oracle_names_26_unbreakable_linux_customers And then about eight months later the number of customers somehow increased exponentially from 26 customers to 1,500 customers (!) as you can see from this link: http://www.linuxlookup.com/2007/nov/15/oracle_unbreakable_linux_support_demonstrates_exceptional_momentum Customers for Oracle Enterprise Linux include the following: Yahoo!, Timex, Diebold, Globecast, ABC Stores, Mutual Materials, Abercrombie & Fitch, Mitsubishi, Nissan, the New York State Insurance Dept... I don't know about the rest of you, but as a long time Red Hat user and sysadmin I'm actually looking forward to running Oracle Unbreakable Enterprise Linux.. ..in an LX brand SOLARIS ZONE!!! -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
Has anybody heard of an old project that Oracle and Sun worked together on that was called "Raw Iron": http://news.cnet.com/Oracles-Raw-Iron-plan-not-fully-forged/2100-1001_3-219129.html I wonder if we're going to get a similar Oracle-Solaris powered, pre-tuned and pre-configured server appliance running on top of ZFS if the acquisition goes through? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Is Oracle getting ready to kill OpenSolaris?
I am sure they will do such things...much like the existing appliance they have done with HP but this time a totally in-house affair! On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Anon Y Mous wrote: > Has anybody heard of an old project that Oracle and Sun worked together on > that was called "Raw Iron": > > > http://news.cnet.com/Oracles-Raw-Iron-plan-not-fully-forged/2100-1001_3-219129.html > > I wonder if we're going to get a similar Oracle-Solaris powered, pre-tuned > and pre-configured server appliance running on top of ZFS if the acquisition > goes through? > -- > This message posted from opensolaris.org > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org > ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
