Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Friday 02 March 2007 22:15:26 Marcus Meissner wrote: The problem in general is that our GNOME developers work more on the enterprise desktop , while the KDE guys work more on the openSUSE snapshots, for above reasons. Perhaps this is a complaint, then (like a few others we get around), that not enough time is left for openSUSE GNOME? Perhaps the balance could be revisited, since quite a few people have issues with this, it seems to me. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Website: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos on irc.freenode.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
Francis Giannaros wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 00:12:15 Ted Bullock wrote: For instance I currently see the following: 251 Open bugs for 10.0 683 Open bugs for 10.1 1224 Open bugs for 10.2 Wow, that is quite a few more than I thought. don't forget many bugs are duplicates, many others are moved from an earlier distro to the next one, so this don't mean the 10.0 have less bugs, but that they will never be fixed :-) Surely the combined effort between the developers and community over the course of a day or two could clean out the bug lists and identify tasks that should genuinely be targeted for fixes. I really like this idea; KDE also has bug triage weekends in #kde-bugs and they tend to be very successful. pretty good idea :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 08:28:56AM +, Francis Giannaros wrote: On Friday 02 March 2007 22:15:26 Marcus Meissner wrote: The problem in general is that our GNOME developers work more on the enterprise desktop , while the KDE guys work more on the openSUSE snapshots, for above reasons. Perhaps this is a complaint, then (like a few others we get around), that not enough time is left for openSUSE GNOME? Perhaps the balance could be revisited, since quite a few people have issues with this, it seems to me. See JPRs recent mail. Btw, someone mentioned opensuseupdater... It will get a gtkupdate applet in 10.3 too. (opensuseupdater in general is just a very small program, wrapper around zypp-checkpatches (for checking) kdesu yast2 online_update (for update) kdesu yast2 inst_source (for config) creating a GLADE style GTK applet doing the same should not be that hard.) Ciao, Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 08:31:34AM +, Francis Giannaros wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 00:12:15 Ted Bullock wrote: For instance I currently see the following: 251 Open bugs for 10.0 683 Open bugs for 10.1 1224 Open bugs for 10.2 Wow, that is quite a few more than I thought. Surely the combined effort between the developers and community over the course of a day or two could clean out the bug lists and identify tasks that should genuinely be targeted for fixes. I really like this idea; KDE also has bug triage weekends in #kde-bugs and they tend to be very successful. We internally call to our packagers and bug owners to review all their bugzillas. But even I have 10 pending bugs and I try to be a role model ;) Ciao, Marcus - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Saturday 03 March 2007 09:17:46 jdd wrote: Francis Giannaros wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 00:12:15 Ted Bullock wrote: For instance I currently see the following: 251 Open bugs for 10.0 683 Open bugs for 10.1 1224 Open bugs for 10.2 Wow, that is quite a few more than I thought. don't forget many bugs are duplicates, many others are moved from an earlier distro to the next one, so this don't mean the 10.0 have less bugs, but that they will never be fixed :-) Even in that scenario, they shouldn't be left open; they should be marked as WONTFIX. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Website: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos on irc.freenode.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
Perhaps this is a complaint, then (like a few others we get around), that not enough time is left for openSUSE GNOME? Watch this space. -- James Ogley [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://usr-local-bin.org GNOME for openSUSE: http://software.opensuse.org/download/GNOME:/ Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/in - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On 3/3/07, Ted Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other bugs report the same problem, also with no conclusion https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=130098 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=159186 Maybe a post release bug cleanup activity could help here and in similar instances? Perhaps 2-3 months after a release the developers and community could be organized into a one day bug review of the outstanding bugs for the release and evaluate/assign them properly. For instance I currently see the following: 251 Open bugs for 10.0 683 Open bugs for 10.1 1224 Open bugs for 10.2 Well, I really don't understand this counter. For me, SUSE 10.2 is much more stable than 10.0 and 10.1 together, and less buggy overall. Single reason: The KDE is much more stable. I don't use the newer technologies, like Compiz/Beagle/ZEN/Rug/... for my serious work. So I propably don't notice any problems with them... Wouldn't it be useful to review all those open bugs from the more recent releases and see if they should be updated to reflect the state of either the current release (10.2) or the factory (10.3), or possibly close them if they represent problems that are negligible in recent releases? Surely the combined effort between the developers and community over the course of a day or two could clean out the bug lists and identify tasks that should genuinely be targeted for fixes. Personally I would be willing to schedule a day or two toward such an activity that I think would improve the quality of defect management in opensuse. I think that the Mozilla lightning/calendar project has the right idea with scheduled community/developer test days. http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar/2007/03/branch_sunbird_and_google_cale.html Thoughts? Yes, I agree that Mozilla-style community bug-hunting days is a good idea :) !! -Alexey Eremenko - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
Marcus Meissner wrote: Il giorno ven, 02/03/2007 alle 23.05 +0100, Richard Bos ha scritto: Op vrijdag 2 maart 2007 22:52, schreef Alberto Passalacqua: * main-menu Hangs https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=240727 This bug number is incorrect. What is the right one? I'm sorry. I pasted the wrong link. Here's the right one: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229190 This bug does not even seem to be fully evaluated yet... A bit of insistence of the bug reporter is _always_ helpful, in any opensource scenario. Ciao, Marcus It would help a lot IMHO if someone went over the open bugs and had a look at least at the CRITICAL ones in order to determin whether any immediate action is necessary. I mean, gnome-main-menu is extremely bothersome, it really make working an unpleasant experience. But still, it is not serious. How come, on the other hand, that really critical bugs like the following one go completely unrealized although several users have confirmed it? Bug 231256 - Zen-updater's repositories are lost after boot https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=231256 Other than that I'm tremendously enjoying openSUSE and just hope it tackles some of the main issues in 10.3; like the aforementioned gnome-main-menu annoyance and ZMD-problems. Thanks, Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
I think that the Mozilla lightning/calendar project has the right idea with scheduled community/developer test days. http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar/2007/03/branch_sunbird_and_google_cale.html Thoughts? Not sure. A single bug day is more a formal than a productive action in my opinion. It might work for single applications, but for a big distribution as SUSE it risks not to produce the desired results. I think the current testing methods are not far from what is needed. Probably a stricter communication between developers, community and users is the most important thing to work on. Regards, Alberto - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
Il giorno sab, 03/03/2007 alle 12.29 +0100, Christian Jäger ha scritto: Bug 231256 - Zen-updater's repositories are lost after boot https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=231256 It seems an old bug of 10.1 (fixed) which came back randomly in 10.2. I personally never had this problem till now, but it's serious. However, the general advice is to remove, if possible, ZMDfriends, and to use the opensuse-updater applet. You need some trick to delay its loading at login, if you want to have it in the panel however. Regards, Alberto - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Saturday 03 March 2007 03:22, Marcus Meissner wrote: On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 08:31:34AM +, Francis Giannaros wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 00:12:15 Ted Bullock wrote: For instance I currently see the following: 251 Open bugs for 10.0 683 Open bugs for 10.1 1224 Open bugs for 10.2 Wow, that is quite a few more than I thought. Surely the combined effort between the developers and community over the course of a day or two could clean out the bug lists and identify tasks that should genuinely be targeted for fixes. I really like this idea; KDE also has bug triage weekends in #kde-bugs and they tend to be very successful. We internally call to our packagers and bug owners to review all their bugzillas. But even I have 10 pending bugs and I try to be a role model ;) Ciao, Marcus What about idea to take concerted effort on one category. For instance: https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc_type=fulltextshort_desc=long_desc_type=fulltextlong_desc=bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstrbug_file_loc=status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstrstatus_whiteboard=keywords_type=anywordskeywords=bug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=NEEDINFObug_status=REOPENEDbug_severity=Criticalrep_platform=PCrep_platform=i386rep_platform=i586rep_platform=i686rep_platform=x86-64rep_platform=x86rep_platform=64bitrep_platform=32bitop_sys=Allop_sys=OES+-+Linuxop_sys=SuSE+Linux+10.0op_sys=SuSE+Linux+10.1op_sys=SuSE+Otherop_sys=Linuxop_sys=UNIX+Otherop_sys=Otheremailassigned_to1=1emailtype1=substringemail1=emailassigned_to2=1emailreporter2=1emailqa_contact2=1emailcc2=1emailtype2=substringemail2=bugidtype=includebug_id=votes=chfieldfrom=chfieldto=Nowchfieldvalue=cmdtype=doitorder=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+timefield0-0-0=nooptype0-0-0=noopvalue0-0-0= has 57 bugs, select few that can be tested by this community, put on the list in a new thread and call for help. Notify bug owners to monitor and jump in communication here at the time you announce hunting season. Concentrated effort to bring more people togeather on the same task may help to collect more data and resolve bugs faster. More people on the same task mean also more eyes looking in the Internet for more traces of the same symptoms. I guess that many of us never experience some bugs for many reasons, and have no idea that they exists until it happens. Than we go to bugzilla and if we have luck to select right search criteria, bug will show up and we can add our comment, if not we will file duplicate. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alberto Passalacqua wrote: I think that the Mozilla lightning/calendar project has the right idea with scheduled community/developer test days. http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar/2007/03/branch_sunbird_and_google_cale.html Thoughts? Not sure. A single bug day is more a formal than a productive action in my opinion. It might work for single applications, but for a big distribution as SUSE it risks not to produce the desired results. I think the current testing methods are not far from what is needed. Probably a stricter communication between developers, community and users is the most important thing to work on. The solution for a better GNOME on SUSE is probably rather: - - make the GNOME devs @Novell use openSUSE 10.2 or 10.3 alpha etc... - - put more manpower into packaging/fixing GNOME on openSUSE Eating your own dogfood is rule #1 and I really wonder what the GNOME devs @Novell are using on their workstations... if it's SLED then why the heck have the improvements made in SLED not made their way into openSUSE ? cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFF6YSSr3NMWliFcXcRAkHUAJ9ou3uavP87vQORPcWSnd3WE8NBvwCcCUL5 vMCb9/kopKqENXsV0nPEt3M= =AWXb -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rajko M. schreef: On Saturday 03 March 2007 03:22, Marcus Meissner wrote: On Sat, Mar 03, 2007 at 08:31:34AM +, Francis Giannaros wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 00:12:15 Ted Bullock wrote: For instance I currently see the following: 251 Open bugs for 10.0 683 Open bugs for 10.1 1224 Open bugs for 10.2 Wow, that is quite a few more than I thought. Surely the combined effort between the developers and community over the course of a day or two could clean out the bug lists and identify tasks that should genuinely be targeted for fixes. I really like this idea; KDE also has bug triage weekends in #kde-bugs and they tend to be very successful. We internally call to our packagers and bug owners to review all their bugzillas. But even I have 10 pending bugs and I try to be a role model ;) Ciao, Marcus What about idea to take concerted effort on one category. For instance: https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc_type=fulltextshort_desc=long_desc_type=fulltextlong_desc=bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstrbug_file_loc=status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstrstatus_whiteboard=keywords_type=anywordskeywords=bug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=NEEDINFObug_status=REOPENEDbug_severity=Criticalrep_platform=PCrep_platform=i386rep_platform=i586rep_platform=i686rep_platform=x86-64rep_platform=x86rep_platform=64bitrep_platform=32bitop_sys=Allop_sys=OES+-+Linuxop_sys=SuSE+Linux+10.0op_sys=SuSE+Linux+10.1op_sys=SuSE+Otherop_sys=Linuxop_sys=UNIX+Otherop_sys=Otheremailassigned_to1=1emailtype1=substringemail1=emailassigned_to2=1emailreporter2=1emailqa_contact2=1emailcc2=1emailtype2=substringemail2=bugidtype=includebug_id=votes=chfieldfrom=chfieldto=Nowchfieldvalue=cmdtype=doitorder=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+timefield0-0-0=nooptype0-0-0=noopvalue0-0-0= has 57 bugs, select few that can be tested by this community, put on the list in a new thread and call for help. Notify bug owners to monitor and jump in communication here at the time you announce hunting season. Concentrated effort to bring more people togeather on the same task may help to collect more data and resolve bugs faster. More people on the same task mean also more eyes looking in the Internet for more traces of the same symptoms. I guess that many of us never experience some bugs for many reasons, and have no idea that they exists until it happens. Than we go to bugzilla and if we have luck to select right search criteria, bug will show up and we can add our comment, if not we will file duplicate. These last words are realy the way it is, at least for me... Just to find the duplicates will reduce the number of real and existing bugs...(dramaticly?, let's find out...) And it has been proven worldwide, that if attention is focussed, great things can be established... Also there is going to be more insight in usage and behavior of users (including all of us), and their desired ability for boxes and their OS's.. Also this is a chance for all of us to be taken serious, (if we desire that) ;-) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 release 45.2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6Yi2X5/X5X6LpDgRAj5XAJ9IiCecSG/cO9Mx6ydp9roRmRhFhwCeMwRs eX9/DeVlCb5XDYY7YDGvt3I= =5k2r -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Saturday 03 March 2007 09:02, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: I'm a bit critical about the _one_day_ bug testing because I think it's too short to examine the bugs of something complex like a distribution. ... I personally prefer shorter meetings in multiple days than 24 hours meeting where everyone has to wait for the moment which interests him. But of course this is an opinion. While IRC meetings are cooncentrated they exclude all people that are not in right time zone. With present number of active users that is not good. I would prefer one thread on this list that will announce start of triage and than separate threads for each bug. One day is good to start with action, then it will last as needed. There is often need for communication with upstream developers and that can't be accomplished in a day. Of course the success of these operations depends on how they're planned and managed. Planning the presence of bug owners that can give us instructions how to create test cases they are interested in, take look at the uploaded logs on bugzilla and give a feedback as well as what's next they want. This way it might be very productive. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rajko M. schreef: On Saturday 03 March 2007 09:02, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: I'm a bit critical about the _one_day_ bug testing because I think it's too short to examine the bugs of something complex like a distribution. ... I personally prefer shorter meetings in multiple days than 24 hours meeting where everyone has to wait for the moment which interests him. But of course this is an opinion. While IRC meetings are cooncentrated they exclude all people that are not in right time zone. With present number of active users that is not good. I would prefer one thread on this list that will announce start of triage and than separate threads for each bug. One day is good to start with action, then it will last as needed. There is often need for communication with upstream developers and that can't be accomplished in a day. Of course the success of these operations depends on how they're planned and managed. Planning the presence of bug owners that can give us instructions how to create test cases they are interested in, take look at the uploaded logs on bugzilla and give a feedback as well as what's next they want. This way it might be very productive. Good, logical thinking chap.. ;-) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 release 45.2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6ZOsX5/X5X6LpDgRAiaOAJ0ZSUzPLXJ6ri0xljYrKU8I4XqtYgCeLlgK Z5REUMVfNWgAIXmTIiaXsks= =gvYf -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
Rajko M. wrote: While IRC meetings are cooncentrated they exclude all people that are not in right time zone. With present number of active users that is not good. I would prefer one thread on this list that will announce start of triage and than separate threads for each bug. yes. and nobody prevent us opening a private chat if necessary One day is good to start with action, then it will last as needed. There is often need for communication with upstream developers and that can't be accomplished in a day. I whould prefere one week. comunication through bugzilla and mailing list is slow, as is bug testing if it needs restarting the computer... Planning the presence of bug owners that can give us instructions how to create test cases they are interested in, take look at the uploaded logs on bugzilla and give a feedback as well as what's next they want. This way it might be very productive. may be. Simply two or three people trying to reproduce the same bug should be nice. the main problem come from HW bugs that needs the same HW through testers. I have no AMD64, for example... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
is there a way to tag some bug to be tested by the users (I don't know how to name the community excluding the Novell devs), so anybody could go in bugzilla and try himself, without being necessary to have a special day or week :-) I just browse part of the bug list. many bugs seems quite simple to identify (enh) or very difficult to handle by beta-tester (#165586) be obliged to read all the bug thread only to see one can't do anything is very counter-productive. as an example the quoted bug:#165586 is quoted critical, assigned (but not solved) and the last message is from 2006-05-19 08:34:40 MST. What does this mean? it's an obscure hwinfo problem no tester can solve... in fact there are bugs that come from the distro itself (yast... zen...) and bugs that come from an included app and that should be solved, if necessary, by the app maintainer. see 200177 - kontact/kmail crash on startup. so there definitively is a need to better bug classification... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 jdd schreef: is there a way to tag some bug to be tested by the users (I don't know how to name the community excluding the Novell devs), so anybody could go in bugzilla and try himself, without being necessary to have a special day or week :-) I just browse part of the bug list. many bugs seems quite simple to identify (enh) or very difficult to handle by beta-tester (#165586) be obliged to read all the bug thread only to see one can't do anything is very counter-productive. as an example the quoted bug:#165586 is quoted critical, assigned (but not solved) and the last message is from 2006-05-19 08:34:40 MST. What does this mean? it's an obscure hwinfo problem no tester can solve... in fact there are bugs that come from the distro itself (yast... zen...) and bugs that come from an included app and that should be solved, if necessary, by the app maintainer. see 200177 - kontact/kmail crash on startup. so there definitively is a need to better bug classification... jdd Definetely, there has to be reorganizing done at inventoring, as which bugs are related, to get 'chunks', which can be chewed up more easy... - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 release 45.2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6Z6bX5/X5X6LpDgRAraXAKC63vs6G6qnWvTtP/8Vocm6TNgcAQCfWZNn VP4jDdprTld/oxdLQytDyjQ= =QAfy -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Saturday 03 March 2007 09:29, jdd wrote: Rajko M. wrote: While IRC meetings are cooncentrated they exclude all people that are not in right time zone. With present number of active users that is not good. I would prefer one thread on this list that will announce start of triage and than separate threads for each bug. yes. and nobody prevent us opening a private chat if necessary As long as it is bug related communication ;-) Sorry I can't understand, last night we've got party, and ... I'll see ya tomorrow One day is good to start with action, then it will last as needed. There is often need for communication with upstream developers and that can't be accomplished in a day. I whould prefere one week. comunication through bugzilla and mailing list is slow, as is bug testing if it needs restarting the computer... One day, or any day, as moment to start. Later it can last more or leeser than a week. Planning the presence of bug owners that can give us instructions how to create test cases they are interested in, take look at the uploaded logs on bugzilla and give a feedback as well as what's next they want. This way it might be very productive. may be. Simply two or three people trying to reproduce the same bug should be nice. the main problem come from HW bugs that needs the same HW through testers. I have no AMD64, for example... That is one of the points action style of bug triaging, to bring people togheather that can: - try different hardware, - bring different ideas what to do, - learn from each other. - find more on the Internet, and for sure other positive aspects. More I think, it seems that one bug at the time for each hardware platform, each SUSE/openSUSE would be the best choice to start with and then expand if appropriate. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Saturday 03 March 2007 15:22:21 Rajko M. wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 09:02, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: I'm a bit critical about the _one_day_ bug testing because I think it's too short to examine the bugs of something complex like a distribution. ... I personally prefer shorter meetings in multiple days than 24 hours meeting where everyone has to wait for the moment which interests him. But of course this is an opinion. While IRC meetings are cooncentrated they exclude all people that are not in right time zone. With present number of active users that is not good. I would prefer one thread on this list that will announce start of triage and than separate threads for each bug. That's an argument against a meeting _time_, but not really against a meeting day. If it's a bug triage weekend (or any given couple of days), then different people can be on at different times. And particularly on a weekend, people's sleeping patterns vary quite a bit, so I don't think it's a problem. Like I said though anyway, this is a tried, tested and proven method: many other projects have these, and they work tremendously well. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Website: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos on irc.freenode.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
Francis Giannaros wrote: Like I said though anyway, this is a tried, tested and proven method: many other projects have these, and they work tremendously well. I think we agree on the fact, just discussing the how (personally I don't like IRC) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Saturday 03 March 2007 11:59, Francis Giannaros wrote: That's an argument against a meeting _time_, but not really against a meeting day. If it's a bug triage weekend (or any given couple of days), then different people can be on at different times. And particularly on a weekend, people's sleeping patterns vary quite a bit, so I don't think it's a problem. The IRC can be used as additional medium for fast exchange of thoughts and instant feedback, but take in consideration that the whole process can be very slow, at the times. Than if one is not present at right time it will miss discussion. I would rather combine email and IRC as appropriate, than to insist on one medium. Like I said though anyway, this is a tried, tested and proven method: many other projects have these, and they work tremendously well. I can see reasons why it works well and that is why I support the idea. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
Il giorno sab, 03/03/2007 alle 12.31 -0600, Rajko M. ha scritto: On Saturday 03 March 2007 11:59, Francis Giannaros wrote: That's an argument against a meeting _time_, but not really against a meeting day. If it's a bug triage weekend (or any given couple of days), then different people can be on at different times. And particularly on a weekend, people's sleeping patterns vary quite a bit, so I don't think it's a problem. The IRC can be used as additional medium for fast exchange of thoughts and instant feedback, but take in consideration that the whole process can be very slow, at the times. Than if one is not present at right time it will miss discussion. I would rather combine email and IRC as appropriate, than to insist on one medium. Like I said though anyway, this is a tried, tested and proven method: many other projects have these, and they work tremendously well. I can see reasons why it works well and that is why I support the idea. I agree with Francis on this. The interaction is a lot faster, more helpful and also less frustrating on IRC than using ML and e-mails. Just an example: I don't want to wait for 15 minutes to get an answer when on IRC I can have direct interaction with the other users I'm working with. Moreover, doing testing days using ML/e-mail would just reduce their effectiveness in my opinion. They would become just a sort of extensions of what we are already doing through bugzilla/opensuse-factory. Regards, Alberto - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 jdd schreef: Francis Giannaros wrote: Like I said though anyway, this is a tried, tested and proven method: many other projects have these, and they work tremendously well. I think we agree on the fact, just discussing the how (personally I don't like IRC) jdd That is a shame, because that would be the most simple... You can even open a channel for it - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 release 45.2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6cOEX5/X5X6LpDgRAqqbAKCIXH696I7PstTW/wUzNdAL4ElCPwCgpTTv OHYoBcqQj+OH5dpH9lpfmxk= =LzcB -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007, Francis Giannaros wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 15:22:21 Rajko M. wrote: On Saturday 03 March 2007 09:02, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: I'm a bit critical about the _one_day_ bug testing because I think it's too short to examine the bugs of something complex like a distribution. While IRC meetings are cooncentrated they exclude all people that are not in right time zone. With present number of active users that is not good. I would prefer one thread on this list that will announce start of triage and than separate threads for each bug. That's an argument against a meeting _time_, but not really against a meeting day. If it's a bug triage weekend (or any given couple of days), then different people can be on at different times. And particularly on a weekend, people's sleeping patterns vary quite a bit, so I don't think it's a problem. Like I said though anyway, this is a tried, tested and proven method: many other projects have these, and they work tremendously well. I like the idea, but I think it should spread over a couple days. Say a 48 hour period. Maybe a summary to the list. I have done projects via email where IRC did not seem to be possible. Good Luck, -- Boyd Gerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] OpenSUSE, bugs and some considerations
On Saturday 03 March 2007 12:39, Alberto Passalacqua wrote: Il giorno sab, 03/03/2007 alle 12.31 -0600, Rajko M. ha scritto: On Saturday 03 March 2007 11:59, Francis Giannaros wrote: That's an argument against a meeting _time_, but not really against a meeting day. If it's a bug triage weekend (or any given couple of days), then different people can be on at different times. And particularly on a weekend, people's sleeping patterns vary quite a bit, so I don't think it's a problem. The IRC can be used as additional medium for fast exchange of thoughts and instant feedback, but take in consideration that the whole process can be very slow, at the times. Than if one is not present at right time it will miss discussion. I would rather combine email and IRC as appropriate, than to insist on one medium. Like I said though anyway, this is a tried, tested and proven method: many other projects have these, and they work tremendously well. I can see reasons why it works well and that is why I support the idea. I agree with Francis on this. The interaction is a lot faster, more helpful and also less frustrating on IRC than using ML and e-mails. Just an example: I don't want to wait for 15 minutes to get an answer when on IRC I can have direct interaction with the other users I'm working with. Moreover, doing testing days using ML/e-mail would just reduce their effectiveness in my opinion. They would become just a sort of extensions of what we are already doing through bugzilla/opensuse-factory. Well, both is an extension, just one is fine for fast responses, and the other allows more asynchronous work that will group more people that might be not familiar with bugzilla and/or IRC, can't attend at the times that are scheduled, but still can help. Sorting out to one medium will do just opposite from what is wanted. I can use IRC in the most basic form. That and time constrains will prevent me from attending antibug fest. What is the best can be decided on the run. I don't see the need to insist on one communication channel that fits for some purposes, and not for the other. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] Bug Day/s Lets Get it going.
Hello, With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone. -- Boyd Gerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Bug Day/s Lets Get it going.
Il giorno sab, 03/03/2007 alle 12.07 -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber ha scritto: Hello, With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone. Yes of course. I called this planning ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Bug Day/s Lets Get it going.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Boyd Lynn Gerber schreef: Hello, With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone. Offcourse, that is unavoidable, or enevedible, and nessesary... -- Boyd Gerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 release 45.2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6dIEX5/X5X6LpDgRAsffAJ9i/iFRQ9+L/Srl+wQvJKksT067BACgt/X3 opJzsbTrvE5cwy2oh2hMEIE= =Xi3o -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse-factory] Bug Day/s Lets Get it going.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alberto Passalacqua schreef: Il giorno sab, 03/03/2007 alle 12.07 -0700, Boyd Lynn Gerber ha scritto: Hello, With all the great discussion on the topic, We need to get it going. I like the IRC, but really think a summeray is needed on the email list to keep consistency across time zone. Yes of course. I called this planning ;-) Can anybody mail the #channel? (when decided) I have to attend the family affairs now About timezone: over here it is: 20:55.. - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.18.2-34-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systeem: openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) KDE: 3.5.5 release 45.2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6dLpX5/X5X6LpDgRAsgJAKCHSKik42NUgbDNPtdy85rnogi7wgCgsyT8 j+1uO6CKyKDPQDbU3c5a4TM= =si3v -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse-factory] 33 1/3RPM to wav
Hey Group; I am about to embark on a job helping someone to get a 33 1/3 RPM old audio record (as if you could find a new one. Question number one is - I don't recall a true line level stereo input on PC sound card. I do recall a AUX/CD stereo connector on the card or a 1/8 stereo Line IN (at least I would like to see one) that can accept a line from a HIFI type amp stereo line out. From there I would have a linux mixer (qamix, kmix or the like) play back over the speakers that signal. From a mixer I could create a audiofile.wav. Question #2 Anyone have knowledge from that point? I would ultimately like to burn the audiofile.wav to a CD Even better capture the music on www.sky.fm/smoothjazz which amarok does so well. -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : [EMAIL PROTECTED] VoIP via Gizmo: bmw_87kbike / via Skype: n5xwbg BMW MOA #: 4146 - Ambassador http://counter.li.org #279316 Did you know? The transistor was invented by three white men. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
