RE: Backups in a DW Environment
... with the caveat of somewhat complicating the recovery process. On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 13:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: > Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To > use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media > management library). However, you can use RMAN to back up to disk without > any additional purchase. My sys admin evaluated the cost of the MML piece > from Veritas for our size of server and said the additional disk area was > cheaper, so we use RMAN to disk. > > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:39 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can > someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more > money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? > > What is a 'BCV'? > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM > > > > Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have > > a license or busget to use a third party backup tool > > like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous > > life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) > > > > So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs > > backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I > > have to set aside at least as much disk space for the > > data files as the size of the physical db which will > > later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space > > for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry > > constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it > > be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an > > Oracle recovery from tape? > > > > Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you > > turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a > > load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, > > apply the logs and restart the load, right? > > > > In the same scenario in my environment I'd just > > restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not > > an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says > > it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on > > it. > > > > True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But > > is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into > > believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN > > ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing > > beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large > > extents etc...? > > > > mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit > > > > --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, > > > and production. I > > > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > > > scenario's. The only time > > > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a > > > major load > > > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, > > > I put them back > > > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few > > > archives? Ha, well > > > worth it :). > > > Gene > > > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a > > > must have using > > > RMAN. Thanks for writing it! > > > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>> > > > My personal opinion is all production databases > > > should be in > > > archivelog > > > mode. Period. End of story. > > > > > > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all > > > good. > > > > > > Having said that, given a specific business case, > > > with a specific set > > > of > > > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, > > > and you might > > > even > > > convince me...but I doubt it...;-) > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > Mark J. Bobak > > > Oracle DBA > > > ProQuest Company > > > Ann Arbor, MI > > > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for > > > what he is not, > > > and > > > a sense of humor was provided to console him for > > > what he is." > > > --Unknown > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > > > To: Mul
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Yeah, I configured RMAN on a system. Then the users didn't want me to turn off cold backups. My response was that a DBA wouldn't say there was such a thing as too many backups, so we do both. Specifically with noarchivelog/archivelog, if you try to recover using a backup from before you turned off archivelog, then you will have a gap in your log sequence and only be able to recover to the point you turned off archivelog. I know that you know that Mladen, but I thought maybe some lurker on the list might not. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2004.01.10 16:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: > Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you > take another backup. Actually, taking backup should be a part of every major intervention on the database. Changing the database mode from noarchivelog to archivelog most certainly qualifies. You can never be too rich or have too many backups. My experience tells me that the backup you will need the most will always be the one you don't have. Murphy must have been a DBA. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
On 2004.01.10 16:49, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: > Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you > take another backup. Actually, taking backup should be a part of every major intervention on the database. Changing the database mode from noarchivelog to archivelog most certainly qualifies. You can never be too rich or have too many backups. My experience tells me that the backup you will need the most will always be the one you don't have. Murphy must have been a DBA. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
> Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts > into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase > the length of rows? > > 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Btw, if you're sure that rows won't grow, it use even pctfree 0 instead of 1. One thing you have to have in mind in this case, that there might not be enough room for allocating additional ITL entries in a block, so you should use INITRANS for setting minimum number of entries a block has. Tanel. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tanel Poder INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Ryan - I don't see where you received a direct answer to this question. To use RMAN to back up to tape you must license what Oracle terms a MML (media management library). However, you can use RMAN to back up to disk without any additional purchase. My sys admin evaluated the cost of the MML piece from Veritas for our size of server and said the additional disk area was cheaper, so we use RMAN to disk. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM > Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have > a license or busget to use a third party backup tool > like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous > life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) > > So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs > backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I > have to set aside at least as much disk space for the > data files as the size of the physical db which will > later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space > for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry > constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it > be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an > Oracle recovery from tape? > > Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you > turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a > load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, > apply the logs and restart the load, right? > > In the same scenario in my environment I'd just > restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not > an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says > it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on > it. > > True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But > is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into > believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN > ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing > beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large > extents etc...? > > mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit > > --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, > > and production. I > > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > > scenario's. The only time > > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a > > major load > > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, > > I put them back > > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few > > archives? Ha, well > > worth it :). > > Gene > > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a > > must have using > > RMAN. Thanks for writing it! > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>> > > My personal opinion is all production databases > > should be in > > archivelog > > mode. Period. End of story. > > > > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all > > good. > > > > Having said that, given a specific business case, > > with a specific set > > of > > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, > > and you might > > even > > convince me...but I doubt it...;-) > > > > -Mark > > > > Mark J. Bobak > > Oracle DBA > > ProQuest Company > > Ann Arbor, MI > > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for > > what he is not, > > and > > a sense of humor was provided to console him for > > what he is." > > --Unknown > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much > > sense. > > > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > > BCV's an
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Gene - As a part of putting the database back in archivelog mode, I hope you take another backup. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). Gene PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>> My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus <http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus> -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net <http://www.orafaq.net/> -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com <http://www.fatcity.com/> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net <http://www.orafaq.net/> -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com <http://www.fatcity.com/> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
its read only data in production. we monitor for chained rows on our staging environment and do table reorgs as necessary. Our staging server only ingests data over night, so we have all day for reorgs. Or we can just do them on weekends. We may do a handful every few months. We just run a script to check on it and get an email if chained rows is over 5%. No big deal. Archive log mode when you ingest tons of data is problematic. It just kills I/O. We do alot of full refreshes on tables every night. Its easier just to do a tablespace transport for backup and run dbverify on them. Faster to restore too. You keep two backup copies for each day. Then you just do a 'move' on one them to restore it. Very fast. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 1:59 PM > Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts > into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase > the length of rows? > > 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. > > Jared > > On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 05:04, Ryan wrote: > > I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest > > about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a > > noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable > > tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to > > restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward > > plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. > > > > If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production > > users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your > > production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same > > netapp. > > > > If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in > > order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as > > possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load > > process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to > > knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. > > > > - Original Message - > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM > > > > > > > Mohammed, > > > > > > Comments inline... > > > > > > on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > > > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > > > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. > > > > > > On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus > > > justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging > > is > > > the "industry standard" and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme > > > cases. > > > > > > Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and > > what > > > is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it > > through... > > > > > > > > > > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > > > > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > > > > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > > > > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > > > > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > > > > data that was loaded after the BCV split. > > > > > > The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the > > > cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet > > > already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record > > all > > > changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it > > > being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. > > > > > > Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the > > > extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging > > > makes sense also. > > > > > > Also, on the topic of "BCV splits", one of the problems of using "BCV > > > splits" (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is tha
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Would it be incorrect to assume that you never do inserts into newly loaded partitions, or updates that could increase the length of rows? 1 pctfree could be problematic in that case. Jared On Sat, 2004-01-10 at 05:04, Ryan wrote: > I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest > about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a > noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable > tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to > restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward > plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. > > If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production > users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your > production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same > netapp. > > If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in > order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as > possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load > process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to > knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. > > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM > > > > Mohammed, > > > > Comments inline... > > > > on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. > > > > On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus > > justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging > is > > the "industry standard" and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme > > cases. > > > > Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and > what > > is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it > through... > > > > > > > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > > > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > > > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > > > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > > > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > > > data that was loaded after the BCV split. > > > > The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the > > cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet > > already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record > all > > changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it > > being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. > > > > Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the > > extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging > > makes sense also. > > > > Also, on the topic of "BCV splits", one of the problems of using "BCV > > splits" (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, > > while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. > > This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. > > > > What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being > > recoverable? > > > > Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named "Backup Manager" for a reason. > > RMAN is "recovery-centric". It seems more complex on the backup end of > > things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of > > things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth > the > > extra consideration. > > > > > > > > Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the > > > BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users > > > for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the > > > database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users > > > access these and not the DB directly. > > > > Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take > a > > backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on > a > > 24x7 basis just like any
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
I can understand the concern about ingesting large amount of data. We ingest about 200 GB a night. To get around the archiving problem we make a noarchivelog 'staging' instance, to run our loads. Then we use transportable tablespaces to move the data to production. Its alot quicker and easier to restore a backup copy transportable tablespace than it is to roll forward plus we dont have to generate massive amounts of redo. If you can do your loads in the middle of the night and very few production users are on then, you can put your staging instance right on your production server. We don't do this, but we have them all on the same netapp. If you do this, I recommend using 99 percent free and 1 percent used in order to 'compact' your tablespace. This keeps the tablespace as small as possible and decreases how long it takes to copy. This speeds up the load process(getting data to production), backups, and recovery. We were able to knock a 28 GB tablespace down to 12 GBs. - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:04 PM > Mohammed, > > Comments inline... > > on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. > > On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus > justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is > the "industry standard" and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme > cases. > > Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what > is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... > > > > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > > data that was loaded after the BCV split. > > The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the > cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet > already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all > changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it > being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. > > Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the > extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging > makes sense also. > > Also, on the topic of "BCV splits", one of the problems of using "BCV > splits" (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, > while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. > This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. > > What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being > recoverable? > > Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named "Backup Manager" for a reason. > RMAN is "recovery-centric". It seems more complex on the backup end of > things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of > things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the > extra consideration. > > > > > Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the > > BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users > > for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the > > database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users > > access these and not the DB directly. > > Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a > backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a > 24x7 basis just like any other system. > > > > > So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > mohammed > > Hope this helps... > > -Tim > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Tim Gorman > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelli
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Let me explain, because I have a little bit of experience with it. a) BCV's are replicated disks which are synchronized using TimeFinder. and then separated from the source. The phrase "splitting BCV's" means producing an exact disk copy of the original disks, similarly to what dd can do. It's an ideal way to make a copy of an instance. Last time I checked, BCV's weren't supported by RMAN (it may have changed now), so the tablespaces had to be put into backup mode or (8i and after) the database had to be suspended (very litle known trick is "ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND", which abruptly ceases all the I/O in the database, without shutting it down). b) RMAN is an oracle tool which works in conjunction with Legato (EMC), NetBackup(Veritas), Tivoli, Alexandria or SyncSort backups. RMAN doesn't know how to write to tape and needs a 3rd party backup to do so. The part that Veritas, Legato or IBM will charge you for is called libobk.so and is an interface which enables RMAN to work with their particular tool. RMAN is a very good tool which can do many things in a very easy way and without generating a TB of redo archives for the duration of hot backup mode. Robert Freeman's book is definitely the best source for anything RMAN around. On 2004.01.09 20:29, mkb wrote: > Hi Ryan, > > Not for RMAN. I meant a license for Veritas or > Legato. > > See Mladen's reply re: BCV (basically EMC takes a > snapshot of the mount points onto corresponding mount > points i.e. a 1-to-1 mapping for each mount point onto > a BCV mount point) > > Hope that clears up the confusion. > > mohammed > > --- Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I never heard about the required license from > > veritas and legato. Can > > someone else confirm that this is necessary? They > > actually charge you more > > money to do use another product with veriftas and > > legato? > > > > What is a 'BCV'? > > - Original Message - > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM > > > > > > > Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't > > have > > > a license or busget to use a third party backup > > tool > > > like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a > > previous > > > life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) > > > > > > So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive > > logs > > > backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. > > I > > > have to set aside at least as much disk space for > > the > > > data files as the size of the physical db which > > will > > > later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk > > space > > > for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry > > > constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. > > Wouldn't it > > > be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to > > do an > > > Oracle recovery from tape? > > > > > > Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, > > you > > > turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf > > during a > > > load, how would you recover the db? Restore the > > dbf, > > > apply the logs and restart the load, right? > > > > > > In the same scenario in my environment I'd just > > > restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. > > Not > > > an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin > > says > > > it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign > > off on > > > it. > > > > > > True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. > > But > > > is it a necassity or have we all been programmed > > into > > > believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE > > IN > > > ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be > > progressing > > > beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one > > large > > > extents etc...? > > > > > > mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit > > > > > > --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, > > test, > > > > and production. I > > > > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > > > > scenario's. The only time > > > > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing > > a > > > > major load > > > > (import,sqlload,etc). Aft
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Mohammed, Comments inline... on 1/9/04 2:24 PM, mkb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. On the contrary, not using archivelog mode is what makes less sense, thus justifying more careful consideration and justification. Archivelogging is the "industry standard" and makes complete sense in all but a few extreme cases. Have you considered what archive logging actually provides for you, and what is necessary to engineer the same effects on your own? Think it through... > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > data that was loaded after the BCV split. The rebuild-then-reload method seems to make sense on paper, but it is the cause of extreme difficultly in actual practice. If you have not yet already implemented a very mature change-management procedure, to record all changes in the database, complete with all of the security to prevent it being bypassed, then you are in for a rough time. Robust change-management and ironclad security always makes sense, but the extra insurance of being able to recover every change using archivelogging makes sense also. Also, on the topic of "BCV splits", one of the problems of using "BCV splits" (or file-system snapshots or similar snapshot schemes) is that, while it makes backups very easy, it does not make recovery any easier. This type of backup-centric thinking is very seductive. What is the purpose of the whole exercise? Taking backups? Or being recoverable? Oracle Recovery Manager (RMAN) is not named "Backup Manager" for a reason. RMAN is "recovery-centric". It seems more complex on the backup end of things (it isn't), but it is undeniably easier on the recovery side of things. Try to work RMAN into your strategy at all times. It is worth the extra consideration. > > Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the > BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users > for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the > database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users > access these and not the DB directly. Any data warehouse that is shutdown, even for a few minutes, just to take a backup, has been engineered to fail. People keep data warehouses busy on a 24x7 basis just like any other system. > > So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. > > Any thoughts? > > mohammed Hope this helps... -Tim -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Anyone look at the 10g new features? Is this one of things Oracle is claiming they can eliminate with 10g? So you dont need this license? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Backups in a DW Environment The license is for the software that interfaces Veritas NetBackup to RMAN. RMAN has an API and NBU has an API. The intersection of the 2 will set you back about $1500 US IIRC.Jared "Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2004 04:39 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: Re: Backups in a DW EnvironmentI never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Cansomeone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you moremoney to do use another product with veriftas and legato?What is a 'BCV'?- Original Message -To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM> Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have> a license or busget to use a third party backup tool> like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous> life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!)>> So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs> backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I> have to set aside at least as much disk space for the> data files as the size of the physical db which will> later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space> for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry> constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it> be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an> Oracle recovery from tape?>> Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you> turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a> load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf,> apply the logs and restart the load, right?>> In the same scenario in my environment I'd just> restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not> an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says> it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on> it.>> True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But> is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into> believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN> ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing> beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large> extents etc...?>> mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit>> --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test,> > and production. I> > can use test db's to test backup/recovery> > scenario's. The only time> > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a> > major load> > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data,> > I put them back> > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few> > archives? Ha, well> > worth it :).> > Gene> > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a> > must have using> > RMAN. Thanks for writing it!> >> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>>> > My personal opinion is all production databases> > should be in> > archivelog> > mode. Period. End of story.> >> > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all> > good.> >> > Having said that, given a specific business case,> > with a specific set> > of> > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode,> > and you might> > even> > convince me...but I doubt it...;-)> >> > -Mark> >> > Mark J. Bobak> > Oracle DBA> > ProQuest Company> > Ann Arbor, MI> > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for> > what he is not,> > and> > a sense of humor was provided to console him for> > what he is."> > --Unknown> >> >> > -Original Message-> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L> >> >> > Have a question on backups in a DW environment.> >> > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected> > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to> > con
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
The license is for the software that interfaces Veritas NetBackup to RMAN. RMAN has an API and NBU has an API. The intersection of the 2 will set you back about $1500 US IIRC. Jared "Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/2004 04:39 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: Re: Backups in a DW Environment I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM > Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have > a license or busget to use a third party backup tool > like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous > life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) > > So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs > backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I > have to set aside at least as much disk space for the > data files as the size of the physical db which will > later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space > for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry > constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it > be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an > Oracle recovery from tape? > > Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you > turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a > load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, > apply the logs and restart the load, right? > > In the same scenario in my environment I'd just > restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not > an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says > it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on > it. > > True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But > is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into > believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN > ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing > beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large > extents etc...? > > mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit > > --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, > > and production. I > > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > > scenario's. The only time > > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a > > major load > > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, > > I put them back > > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few > > archives? Ha, well > > worth it :). > > Gene > > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a > > must have using > > RMAN. Thanks for writing it! > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>> > > My personal opinion is all production databases > > should be in > > archivelog > > mode. Period. End of story. > > > > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all > > good. > > > > Having said that, given a specific business case, > > with a specific set > > of > > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, > > and you might > > even > > convince me...but I doubt it...;-) > > > > -Mark > > > > Mark J. Bobak > > Oracle DBA > > ProQuest Company > > Ann Arbor, MI > > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for > > what he is not, > > and > > a sense of humor was provided to console him for > > what he is." > > --Unknown > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much > > sense. > > > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > > data that was loaded after the BCV spl
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Hi Ryan, Not for RMAN. I meant a license for Veritas or Legato. See Mladen's reply re: BCV (basically EMC takes a snapshot of the mount points onto corresponding mount points i.e. a 1-to-1 mapping for each mount point onto a BCV mount point) Hope that clears up the confusion. mohammed --- Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I never heard about the required license from > veritas and legato. Can > someone else confirm that this is necessary? They > actually charge you more > money to do use another product with veriftas and > legato? > > What is a 'BCV'? > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM > > > > Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't > have > > a license or busget to use a third party backup > tool > > like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a > previous > > life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) > > > > So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive > logs > > backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. > I > > have to set aside at least as much disk space for > the > > data files as the size of the physical db which > will > > later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk > space > > for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry > > constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. > Wouldn't it > > be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to > do an > > Oracle recovery from tape? > > > > Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, > you > > turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf > during a > > load, how would you recover the db? Restore the > dbf, > > apply the logs and restart the load, right? > > > > In the same scenario in my environment I'd just > > restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. > Not > > an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin > says > > it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign > off on > > it. > > > > True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. > But > > is it a necassity or have we all been programmed > into > > believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE > IN > > ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be > progressing > > beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one > large > > extents etc...? > > > > mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit > > > > --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, > test, > > > and production. I > > > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > > > scenario's. The only time > > > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing > a > > > major load > > > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading > data, > > > I put them back > > > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few > > > archives? Ha, well > > > worth it :). > > > Gene > > > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is > a > > > must have using > > > RMAN. Thanks for writing it! > > > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM > >>> > > > My personal opinion is all production databases > > > should be in > > > archivelog > > > mode. Period. End of story. > > > > > > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's > all > > > good. > > > > > > Having said that, given a specific business > case, > > > with a specific set > > > of > > > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog > mode, > > > and you might > > > even > > > convince me...but I doubt it...;-) > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > Mark J. Bobak > > > Oracle DBA > > > ProQuest Company > > > Ann Arbor, MI > > > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him > for > > > what he is not, > > > and > > > a sense of humor was provided to console him for > > > what he is." > > > --Unknown > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but > projected > > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
BCV = Business Continuity Volume On 2004.01.09 19:39, Ryan wrote: > I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can > someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more > money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? > > What is a 'BCV'? > - Original Message - > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM > > > > Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have > > a license or busget to use a third party backup tool > > like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous > > life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) > > > > So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs > > backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I > > have to set aside at least as much disk space for the > > data files as the size of the physical db which will > > later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space > > for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry > > constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it > > be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an > > Oracle recovery from tape? > > > > Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you > > turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a > > load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, > > apply the logs and restart the load, right? > > > > In the same scenario in my environment I'd just > > restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not > > an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says > > it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on > > it. > > > > True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But > > is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into > > believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN > > ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing > > beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large > > extents etc...? > > > > mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit > > > > --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, > > > and production. I > > > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > > > scenario's. The only time > > > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a > > > major load > > > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, > > > I put them back > > > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few > > > archives? Ha, well > > > worth it :). > > > Gene > > > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a > > > must have using > > > RMAN. Thanks for writing it! > > > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>> > > > My personal opinion is all production databases > > > should be in > > > archivelog > > > mode. Period. End of story. > > > > > > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all > > > good. > > > > > > Having said that, given a specific business case, > > > with a specific set > > > of > > > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, > > > and you might > > > even > > > convince me...but I doubt it...;-) > > > > > > -Mark > > > > > > Mark J. Bobak > > > Oracle DBA > > > ProQuest Company > > > Ann Arbor, MI > > > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for > > > what he is not, > > > and > > > a sense of humor was provided to console him for > > > what he is." > > > --Unknown > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much > > > sense. > > > > > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > > > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > > > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > > > archiving if I can restore my DB from la
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
I never heard about the required license from veritas and legato. Can someone else confirm that this is necessary? They actually charge you more money to do use another product with veriftas and legato? What is a 'BCV'? - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:19 PM > Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have > a license or busget to use a third party backup tool > like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous > life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) > > So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs > backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I > have to set aside at least as much disk space for the > data files as the size of the physical db which will > later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space > for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry > constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it > be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an > Oracle recovery from tape? > > Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you > turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a > load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, > apply the logs and restart the load, right? > > In the same scenario in my environment I'd just > restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not > an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says > it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on > it. > > True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But > is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into > believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN > ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing > beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large > extents etc...? > > mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit > > --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, > > and production. I > > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > > scenario's. The only time > > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a > > major load > > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, > > I put them back > > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few > > archives? Ha, well > > worth it :). > > Gene > > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a > > must have using > > RMAN. Thanks for writing it! > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>> > > My personal opinion is all production databases > > should be in > > archivelog > > mode. Period. End of story. > > > > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all > > good. > > > > Having said that, given a specific business case, > > with a specific set > > of > > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, > > and you might > > even > > convince me...but I doubt it...;-) > > > > -Mark > > > > Mark J. Bobak > > Oracle DBA > > ProQuest Company > > Ann Arbor, MI > > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for > > what he is not, > > and > > a sense of humor was provided to console him for > > what he is." > > --Unknown > > > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much > > sense. > > > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > > data that was loaded after the BCV split. > > > > Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the > > BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by > > users > > for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the > > database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users > > access these and not the DB directly. > > > > So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > mohammed > > > >
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Let's assume RMAN is not an option since we don't have a license or busget to use a third party backup tool like Legato or Veritas with RMAN (used in a previous life with Legato NetWorker. Loved it!!) So now I'm left with archive log mode. Archive logs backed up nightly and a full backup once a week. I have to set aside at least as much disk space for the data files as the size of the physical db which will later be copied to tape. Plus, I also need disk space for my BCVs'. I can't have both (budgetry constraints). I'm leaning towards BCV's. Wouldn't it be just as quick to restore the entire BCV as to do an Oracle recovery from tape? Also Gene, you mention that while loading data, you turn off archiving. So if you lost that dbf during a load, how would you recover the db? Restore the dbf, apply the logs and restart the load, right? In the same scenario in my environment I'd just restore the entire BCV set and re-start the load. Not an expert on EMC's BCV technology but my sysadmin says it can be done and yes, I'll test before I sign off on it. True, I'd be nice to have archive logging aswell. But is it a necassity or have we all been programmed into believing that "ALL PRODUCTION DATABASES MUST BE IN ARCHIVE LOG REGARDLESS". Should we not be progressing beyond this like we did with hit ratios and one large extents etc...? mohammed - jumping into flame proof suit --- Gene Sais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, > and production. I > can use test db's to test backup/recovery > scenario's. The only time > they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a > major load > (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, > I put them back > into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few > archives? Ha, well > worth it :). > Gene > PS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a > must have using > RMAN. Thanks for writing it! > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>> > My personal opinion is all production databases > should be in > archivelog > mode. Period. End of story. > > Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all > good. > > Having said that, given a specific business case, > with a specific set > of > requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, > and you might > even > convince me...but I doubt it...;-) > > -Mark > > Mark J. Bobak > Oracle DBA > ProQuest Company > Ann Arbor, MI > "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for > what he is not, > and > a sense of humor was provided to console him for > what he is." > --Unknown > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much > sense. > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > data that was loaded after the BCV split. > > Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the > BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by > users > for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the > database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users > access these and not the DB directly. > > So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. > > Any thoughts? > > mohammed > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" > Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: mkb > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 > http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web > hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information >
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
I put all databases in archive mode, i.e. dev, test, and production. I can use test db's to test backup/recovery scenario's. The only time they are not in archive mode is when I am doing a major load (import,sqlload,etc). After I am done loading data, I put them back into archive mode. What does it cost you, a few archives? Ha, well worth it :). GenePS. On a side note, Robert Freeman, your book is a must have using RMAN. Thanks for writing it! >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/09/04 04:54PM >>>My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelogmode. Period. End of story.Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good.Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set ofrequirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might evenconvince me...but I doubt it...;-)-MarkMark J. BobakOracle DBAProQuest CompanyAnn Arbor, MI"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, anda sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." --Unknown-Original Message-Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LHave a question on backups in a DW environment.Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projectedto grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying toconvince the sys admin that I don't want archivelogging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense.He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to(and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants toturn on archiving. My thinking is why turn onarchiving if I can restore my DB from last night'sBCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading anydata that was loaded after the BCV split.Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before theBCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by usersfor ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access thedatabase and build cubes using Cognos tools. Usersaccess these and not the DB directly.So, again I don't see the need for archive logging.Any thoughts?mohammed__Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakeshttp://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Yes but... The developers use Cognos tools for all their development. Nobody writes any PL/SQL, triggers etc. So again, all that the developers might lose is data that they loaded which can be easily recovered by re-running the ETL process. What I'm trying to say is that the environment from the database perpective is fairly static except when data is loaded. No users accessing directly, deveopers using third party tools for development and data changing slowly. Thanks for the input. mohammed --- Mladen Gogala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, recovery might be just a wee bit faster then > re-loading few gigs of data > using SQL. Also, developers on that DW might lose > any work that they haven't done > the night before. This is a production database, > which means that it absolutely > must be in archive log mode. One of the big reasons > is that you'll have to answer > the question "why isn't the production DW in the > archive log mode" whenever you > encounter an oracle consultant. > > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but > projected > > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying > to > > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much > sense. > > -- > Mladen Gogala > Oracle DBA > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Mladen Gogala > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 > http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web > hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Hi Dennis, On average, we load data weekly. The load time is no more 40 minutes to an hour. Like I said, we're small at the moment. We're at about 70GB which includes temp and undo and growing at the rate of about 2GB a month. Consequence of a failure has been discussed with the developers and users. Developers say that they can live without the DW for one business day. The users don't access the database directly so they would not be affected. As far as critical data being lost, well if we loose the database and we have BCVs in place, we can just reload any data that is missing from the flat files, so no biggie there. Also, I take an export of the entire database after a load. As far as how much the sys admin knows about Oracle well... knows enough from a sys admin perspective that we can converse intelligently but I suspect still holds to the old myths about Oracle that have been discussed on this list. Appreciate your input. mohammed --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? > Daily? Continuously? If > there is a failure, what is the consequence of > returning to the last backup? > How much critical data will be lost? How will > recovery times be affected > with/without archive logging? How much does your sys > admin know about > Oracle? >We have a data warehouse that gets updated > weekly. The day after the load > we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive > logging. > > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much > sense. > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > data that was loaded after the BCV split. > > Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the > BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by > users > for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the > database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users > access these and not the DB directly. > > So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. > > Any thoughts? > > mohammed > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" > Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: mkb > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 > http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web > hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 > http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web > hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
My personal opinion is all production databases should be in archivelog mode. Period. End of story. Less down time, more recovery optionsit's all good. Having said that, given a specific business case, with a specific set of requirements, one could argue for noarchivelog mode, and you might even convince me...but I doubt it...;-) -Mark Mark J. Bobak Oracle DBA ProQuest Company Ann Arbor, MI "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is." --Unknown -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Bobak, Mark INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
why do you do a cold backup? why not just use RMAN? - Original Message - To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:34 PM > Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If > there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? > How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected > with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about > Oracle? >We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load > we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. > > Dennis Williams > DBA > Lifetouch, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Have a question on backups in a DW environment. > > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. > > He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to > (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to > turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on > archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's > BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any > data that was loaded after the BCV split. > > Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the > BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users > for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the > database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users > access these and not the DB directly. > > So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. > > Any thoughts? > > mohammed > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: mkb > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Backups in a DW Environment
Well, recovery might be just a wee bit faster then re-loading few gigs of data using SQL. Also, developers on that DW might lose any work that they haven't done the night before. This is a production database, which means that it absolutely must be in archive log mode. One of the big reasons is that you'll have to answer the question "why isn't the production DW in the archive log mode" whenever you encounter an oracle consultant. > Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected > to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to > convince the sys admin that I don't want archive > logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Backups in a DW Environment
Mohammed - When is this database updated? Once/week? Daily? Continuously? If there is a failure, what is the consequence of returning to the last backup? How much critical data will be lost? How will recovery times be affected with/without archive logging? How much does your sys admin know about Oracle? We have a data warehouse that gets updated weekly. The day after the load we perform a cold backup. We don't use archive logging. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Backups in a DW Environment
Have a question on backups in a DW environment. Our DW is somewhat small at the moment but projected to grow. I seem to be having a hard time trying to convince the sys admin that I don't want archive logging turned on. To me, it does'nt make much sense. He's proposed using EMC BCV's which I've agreed to (and also sounds like a good idea) but also wants to turn on archiving. My thinking is why turn on archiving if I can restore my DB from last night's BCV's and then bring it up to date by re-loading any data that was loaded after the BCV split. Our system is not 24x7 so we can shutdown before the BCV split. Also, it's not directly accessed by users for ad-hoc queries. Automated processes access the database and build cubes using Cognos tools. Users access these and not the DB directly. So, again I don't see the need for archive logging. Any thoughts? mohammed __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: mkb INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Shared Storage and backups
Oracle documentation discusses multiplexing control files, data files, redo log files across multiple volumes in a RAID array. How do you handle this if your using shared storage? Where you just have one or a few logical volumes. has anyone developed a backup plan for this? -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Vivek,
The origianl poster inquired on Physical Standby
(in 8i and 9i) as opposed to logical standby (only in 9i).
In physical standby, you don't have a choice of
running the standby in noarchivelog mode. The control file is created from the
primary as "standby controlfile" which is then implanted at the standby site.
Therefore the LOGMODE is V$DATABASE is always ARCHIVELOG and the
CONTROLFILE_TYPE is always "STANDBY".
I guess you are confused on the potential issue -
when the logmode is archivelog, whether the standby generates archived log
files. No, the standby does not generate archived logs since it does not excute
transactions; it just applies the logs shipped from the primary. When you
activate the standby to make it the primary, however, the archived logs are
generated.
Hope this clears any confusion. Do let us know if
you have more questions on this.
Arup Nanda
www.proligence.com
- Original Message -
From:
VIVEK_SHARMA
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:09
AM
Subject: RE: Oracle Standby Database
Backups.
Arup,Indy,
List
Some
Clarifications please
If the Primary
Database is in ARCHIVELOG Mode (Physical Standby) & archived files there
from are being shipped & applied to the Standby Database, What is the need
to run the Standby Database in ARCHIVELOG Mode?
Are you
implying 9i Dataguard with a Standby which works on a mechanism Other than
Log-shipping?
Please give
detail
Thanks
-Original
Message-From: Arup Nanda
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September
04, 2003 12:35
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Oracle
Standby Database Backups.
Tom,
You
should perform backups from the Standby database, regular RMAN backups, no
need to shutdown the database. Make sure you backup the archived log files
from there too. Contrary to what the docs might _imply_, I use the word
"imply" rather than "state", since the docs have been kind of ambiguous, the
archivedlog backups from the standby are perfectly alright to be used for
recoveries..
You could
use the RMAN backup on the primary, but why? You would rather want to offload
the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby database. In case of a failure in the
primary, your first option is to get the files from standby and recover them.
If standby is down too (as in case of a complete disaster), you would
reinstate the standby backup files to primary and you will be
ok.
We are
using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database.
HTH.
Arup
-
Original Message -
From: Mercadante, Thomas F
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Sent: Wednesday, September
03, 2003 2:29
PM
Subject: Oracle Standby
Database Backups.
All,
We are in the
beginning stages of designing a database with Oracle Standby
capability. The initial size of the database will be 600-800
Gig. The proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a mirrored
fail-over machine. Two separate machines with separate
disk. We are considering using Oracle Standby to have the
database available as much as possible.
Do I
need to perform regular backups of the Standby database? Sounds like a
silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? Or do I shut
it down and perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman on the
primary database. Just curious what you all would
suggest.
Thanks
in advance!
Tom
Mercadante
Oracle Certified
Professional
RE: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Arup,Indy, List Some Clarifications please If the Primary Database is in ARCHIVELOG Mode (Physical Standby) & archived files there from are being shipped & applied to the Standby Database, What is the need to run the Standby Database in ARCHIVELOG Mode? Are you implying 9i Dataguard with a Standby which works on a mechanism Other than Log-shipping? Please give detail Thanks -Original Message- From: Arup Nanda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle Standby Database Backups. Tom, You should perform backups from the Standby database, regular RMAN backups, no need to shutdown the database. Make sure you backup the archived log files from there too. Contrary to what the docs might _imply_, I use the word "imply" rather than "state", since the docs have been kind of ambiguous, the archivedlog backups from the standby are perfectly alright to be used for recoveries.. You could use the RMAN backup on the primary, but why? You would rather want to offload the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby database. In case of a failure in the primary, your first option is to get the files from standby and recover them. If standby is down too (as in case of a complete disaster), you would reinstate the standby backup files to primary and you will be ok. We are using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database. HTH. Arup - Original Message - From: Mercadante, Thomas F To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Oracle Standby Database Backups. All, We are in the beginning stages of designing a database with Oracle Standby capability. The initial size of the database will be 600-800 Gig. The proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a mirrored fail-over machine. Two separate machines with separate disk. We are considering using Oracle Standby to have the database available as much as possible. Do I need to perform regular backups of the Standby database? Sounds like a silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? Or do I shut it down and perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman on the primary database. Just curious what you all would suggest. Thanks in advance! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional
RE: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Tom I was wondering about the last log file on your primary database that still hasn't been sent to your standby database until a switch log occurs... (thinking about sustained mode too) Have you taken that into account?? JL --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Arup, > > Thanks for the reply. So I am assuming that the > Standby database is in > archivelog mode? > Good idea performing the backup on the standby > rather than the Primary. Our > Primary is supposed to grow to 3TB, so your idea has > merit. And our servers > will be in two different buildings, so it makes > sense. In case of a > disaster, we switch to the Standby and recover the > Primary when it becomes > available again, right? > > Thanks again. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:05 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Tom, > > You should perform backups from the Standby > database, regular RMAN backups, > no need to shutdown the database. Make sure you > backup the archived log > files from there too. Contrary to what the docs > might _imply_, I use the > word "imply" rather than "state", since the docs > have been kind of > ambiguous, the archivedlog backups from the standby > are perfectly alright to > be used for recoveries.. > > You could use the RMAN backup on the primary, but > why? You would rather want > to offload the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby > database. In case of a > failure in the primary, your first option is to get > the files from standby > and recover them. If standby is down too (as in case > of a complete > disaster), you would reinstate the standby backup > files to primary and you > will be ok. > > We are using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database. > > HTH. > > Arup > > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:29 PM > > All, > > > We are in the beginning stages of designing a > database with Oracle Standby > capability. The initial size of the database will > be 600-800 Gig. The > proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a > mirrored fail-over > machine. Two separate machines with separate disk. > We are considering > using Oracle Standby to have the database available > as much as possible. > > Do I need to perform regular backups of the Standby > database? Sounds like a > silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? > Or do I shut it down and > perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman > on the primary database. > Just curious what you all would suggest. > > Thanks in advance! > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jose Luis Delgado INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Tom it's me again... I have a (I consider) really good document about stand by databases... (old, maybe, but still applies to 8i standby databases)... if you are interested... I can send you a copy... it focuses about the 'details' with theses databases... HTH JL --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jose, > > I've taken nothing into account. I'm still asking > theoretical questions, > trying to prepare for a discussion I will be having > this afternoon. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > -Original Message- > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 11:29 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Tom > > I was wondering about the last log file on your > primary database that still hasn't been sent to your > standby database until a switch log occurs... > (thinking about sustained mode too) > > Have you taken that into account?? > > JL > > --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Arup, > > > > Thanks for the reply. So I am assuming that the > > Standby database is in > > archivelog mode? > > Good idea performing the backup on the standby > > rather than the Primary. Our > > Primary is supposed to grow to 3TB, so your idea > has > > merit. And our servers > > will be in two different buildings, so it makes > > sense. In case of a > > disaster, we switch to the Standby and recover the > > Primary when it becomes > > available again, right? > > > > Thanks again. > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:05 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > Tom, > > > > You should perform backups from the Standby > > database, regular RMAN backups, > > no need to shutdown the database. Make sure you > > backup the archived log > > files from there too. Contrary to what the docs > > might _imply_, I use the > > word "imply" rather than "state", since the docs > > have been kind of > > ambiguous, the archivedlog backups from the > standby > > are perfectly alright to > > be used for recoveries.. > > > > You could use the RMAN backup on the primary, but > > why? You would rather want > > to offload the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby > > database. In case of a > > failure in the primary, your first option is to > get > > the files from standby > > and recover them. If standby is down too (as in > case > > of a complete > > disaster), you would reinstate the standby backup > > files to primary and you > > will be ok. > > > > We are using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database. > > > > HTH. > > > > Arup > > > > - Original Message - > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:29 PM > > > > All, > > > > > > We are in the beginning stages of designing a > > database with Oracle Standby > > capability. The initial size of the database will > > be 600-800 Gig. The > > proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a > > mirrored fail-over > > machine. Two separate machines with separate > disk. > > We are considering > > using Oracle Standby to have the database > available > > as much as possible. > > > > Do I need to perform regular backups of the > Standby > > database? Sounds like a > > silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? > > > Or do I shut it down and > > perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman > > on the primary database. > > Just curious what you all would suggest. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Tom Mercadante > > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Jose Luis Delgado > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 > http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web > hosting services >
RE: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Jose, I've taken nothing into account. I'm still asking theoretical questions, trying to prepare for a discussion I will be having this afternoon. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 11:29 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom I was wondering about the last log file on your primary database that still hasn't been sent to your standby database until a switch log occurs... (thinking about sustained mode too) Have you taken that into account?? JL --- "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Arup, > > Thanks for the reply. So I am assuming that the > Standby database is in > archivelog mode? > Good idea performing the backup on the standby > rather than the Primary. Our > Primary is supposed to grow to 3TB, so your idea has > merit. And our servers > will be in two different buildings, so it makes > sense. In case of a > disaster, we switch to the Standby and recover the > Primary when it becomes > available again, right? > > Thanks again. > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:05 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Tom, > > You should perform backups from the Standby > database, regular RMAN backups, > no need to shutdown the database. Make sure you > backup the archived log > files from there too. Contrary to what the docs > might _imply_, I use the > word "imply" rather than "state", since the docs > have been kind of > ambiguous, the archivedlog backups from the standby > are perfectly alright to > be used for recoveries.. > > You could use the RMAN backup on the primary, but > why? You would rather want > to offload the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby > database. In case of a > failure in the primary, your first option is to get > the files from standby > and recover them. If standby is down too (as in case > of a complete > disaster), you would reinstate the standby backup > files to primary and you > will be ok. > > We are using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database. > > HTH. > > Arup > > - Original Message - > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:29 PM > > All, > > > We are in the beginning stages of designing a > database with Oracle Standby > capability. The initial size of the database will > be 600-800 Gig. The > proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a > mirrored fail-over > machine. Two separate machines with separate disk. > We are considering > using Oracle Standby to have the database available > as much as possible. > > Do I need to perform regular backups of the Standby > database? Sounds like a > silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? > Or do I shut it down and > perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman > on the primary database. > Just curious what you all would suggest. > > Thanks in advance! > > Tom Mercadante > Oracle Certified Professional > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jose Luis Delgado INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Arup, Thanks for the reply. So I am assuming that the Standby database is in archivelog mode? Good idea performing the backup on the standby rather than the Primary. Our Primary is supposed to grow to 3TB, so your idea has merit. And our servers will be in two different buildings, so it makes sense. In case of a disaster, we switch to the Standby and recover the Primary when it becomes available again, right? Thanks again. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message-From: Arup Nanda [mailto:]Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:05 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Oracle Standby Database Backups. Tom, You should perform backups from the Standby database, regular RMAN backups, no need to shutdown the database. Make sure you backup the archived log files from there too. Contrary to what the docs might _imply_, I use the word "imply" rather than "state", since the docs have been kind of ambiguous, the archivedlog backups from the standby are perfectly alright to be used for recoveries.. You could use the RMAN backup on the primary, but why? You would rather want to offload the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby database. In case of a failure in the primary, your first option is to get the files from standby and recover them. If standby is down too (as in case of a complete disaster), you would reinstate the standby backup files to primary and you will be ok. We are using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database. HTH. Arup - Original Message - From: Mercadante, Thomas F To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Oracle Standby Database Backups. All, We are in the beginning stages of designing a database with Oracle Standby capability. The initial size of the database will be 600-800 Gig. The proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a mirrored fail-over machine. Two separate machines with separate disk. We are considering using Oracle Standby to have the database available as much as possible. Do I need to perform regular backups of the Standby database? Sounds like a silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? Or do I shut it down and perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman on the primary database. Just curious what you all would suggest. Thanks in advance! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional
Re: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Tom As long as your standby database is Physical Standby DB [ Not for Logical Standby Database where you also need to take the standby database backup] If the Database size is very big [ Not even in TB but few hundred GB ], If the Database is 24*7 If the Network connection is good [ We are not using this for some of the Server that are in remote location as Disaster recovery Server and Network connection is not good] It is good idea to perform the Oracle Backup thru RMAN on Standby Database as this way you can avoid any Resource issue on the Primary Database.Arup has already pointed out the detailed benefits. We are using this for lots of big databases. Indy Johal Manager, Database Administration PR Newswire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.prnewswire.com (201) 946-5687 [W] (201) 400-3960 [M] "We tell your story to the world." "Arup Nanda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/03/03 03:04 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: Re: Oracle Standby Database Backups. Tom, You should perform backups from the Standby database, regular RMAN backups, no need to shutdown the database. Make sure you backup the archived log files from there too. Contrary to what the docs might _imply_, I use the word "imply" rather than "state", since the docs have been kind of ambiguous, the archivedlog backups from the standby are perfectly alright to be used for recoveries.. You could use the RMAN backup on the primary, but why? You would rather want to offload the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby database. In case of a failure in the primary, your first option is to get the files from standby and recover them. If standby is down too (as in case of a complete disaster), you would reinstate the standby backup files to primary and you will be ok. We are using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database. HTH. Arup - Original Message - From: Mercadante, Thomas F To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Oracle Standby Database Backups. All, We are in the beginning stages of designing a database with Oracle Standby capability. The initial size of the database will be 600-800 Gig. The proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a mirrored fail-over machine. Two separate machines with separate disk. We are considering using Oracle Standby to have the database available as much as possible. Do I need to perform regular backups of the Standby database? Sounds like a silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? Or do I shut it down and perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman on the primary database. Just curious what you all would suggest. Thanks in advance! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional
Re: Oracle Standby Database Backups.
Tom, You should perform backups from the Standby database, regular RMAN backups, no need to shutdown the database. Make sure you backup the archived log files from there too. Contrary to what the docs might _imply_, I use the word "imply" rather than "state", since the docs have been kind of ambiguous, the archivedlog backups from the standby are perfectly alright to be used for recoveries.. You could use the RMAN backup on the primary, but why? You would rather want to offload the CPU cycles for RMAN to the standby database. In case of a failure in the primary, your first option is to get the files from standby and recover them. If standby is down too (as in case of a complete disaster), you would reinstate the standby backup files to primary and you will be ok. We are using it to backup out 7 TB OLTP database. HTH. Arup - Original Message - From: Mercadante, Thomas F To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: Oracle Standby Database Backups. All, We are in the beginning stages of designing a database with Oracle Standby capability. The initial size of the database will be 600-800 Gig. The proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a mirrored fail-over machine. Two separate machines with separate disk. We are considering using Oracle Standby to have the database available as much as possible. Do I need to perform regular backups of the Standby database? Sounds like a silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? Or do I shut it down and perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman on the primary database. Just curious what you all would suggest. Thanks in advance! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional
Oracle Standby Database Backups.
All, We are in the beginning stages of designing a database with Oracle Standby capability. The initial size of the database will be 600-800 Gig. The proposed database will be run on a IBM P690 with a mirrored fail-over machine. Two separate machines with separate disk. We are considering using Oracle Standby to have the database available as much as possible. Do I need to perform regular backups of the Standby database? Sounds like a silly question, but how do I do this? Using Rman? Or do I shut it down and perform a cold backup? I will definitely use Rman on the primary database. Just curious what you all would suggest. Thanks in advance! Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional
Re: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Metalink Note 73431.1 has an RMAN Compatibility Matrix. TargetRMANCatalog DBCatalog Schema 9.2.0>=9.0.3>=8.1.x >= RMAN executable An RMAN920 schema can be created in an Oracle 8.1.6 database that contains the recovery catalog for Oracle 9.2.0 databases. Have Fun :) DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Jared - Excellent point. My understanding is that the RMAN catalog must run on an Oracle version equal or greater than the target instances. Has anyone found this requirement to be a big pain? I am looking to configuring RMAN on another set of servers, but they are Oracle 9.2 and my current RMAN server is 8.1.6, and would need an O.S. upgrade to move to 9.2. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis, The cron job can run on B only if it is the same version of Oracle that is on A. Jared DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/29/2003 03:14 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject:RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups Walter - What you describe is the standard RMAN configuration. Box B contains the RMAN catalog, therefore it must command the backup. And so the cron job must run on Box B. But the actual backup occurs on the target machine (A in your example). If you back up to tape, you must have an MML (Media Management Library). You can also back up to disk (that is what I do). Since the actual backup occurs on the target machine, not much network traffic is involved. RMAN sends some commands, the target sends some status back, and that is about it. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it. Let me clarify what I'm seeking. In my example, I am using a centralized catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to tape. BCV's are not involved. Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN backup was run from a box that was different from the database server machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all the backups are running from. In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as t -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Chip INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
True enough. I was making the assumption that RMAN would
be run from the client or backup server.
Of course that is not necessarily true.
Some third party tools may require it. NetBackup for instance
expects the RMAN script to run on the client, but I don't know
if that is strictly necessary.
Jared
On Friday 30 May 2003 15:14, MacGregor, Ian A. wrote:
> You can initiate backups from any machine. Here is a cold backup script
> to illustrate backing up from a database server connecting to a rman
> catalog on another machine.
>
> #!/bin/sh
> ORACLE_HOME=/opt/oracle/dbserver/9.0.1
> export ORACLE_HOME
> ORACLE_SID=XXX
> export ORACLE_SID
> NLS_DATE_FORMAT=DD-MON-:HH24:MI:SS
> export NLS_DATE_FORMAT
> $ORACLE_HOME/bin/rman < connect target /
> shutdown immediate
> startup mount
> connect catalog XX/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> run
> {
> allocate channel c1 device type sbt format 'df_%t_%s_%p' maxpiecesize=512M
> PARMS="SBT_LIBRARY=/opt/oracle/dbserver/9.0.1/lib/libobk.so,
> ENV=(TDPO_OPTFILE=/opt/tivoli/tsm/client/oracle/bin/tdpo.opt)";
> backup database;
> backup current controlfile;
> release channel c1;
> }
> alter database open;
> exit
> EOF
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:15 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Walter - What you describe is the standard RMAN configuration. Box B
> contains the RMAN catalog, therefore it must command the backup. And so the
> cron job must run on Box B. But the actual backup occurs on the target
> machine (A in your example). If you back up to tape, you must have an MML
> (Media Management Library). You can also back up to disk (that is what I
> do). Since the actual backup occurs on the target machine, not much network
> traffic is involved. RMAN sends some commands, the target sends some status
> back, and that is about it.
>
>
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:30 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it.
>
> Let me clarify what I'm seeking. In my example, I am using a centralized
> catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to
> tape. BCV's are not involved.
>
> Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target
> server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN
> backup was run from a box that was different from the database server
> machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies
> this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all
> the backups are running from.
>
> In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on
> box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and
> therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as
> the database? If not, could someone explain why?
>
> Does this make sense?
>
> Thanks again.
> -w
>
>
>
>
> DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I think
> Oracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage the
> backups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the
> way to go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you
> could slide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN
> commands you could have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the
> catalog method on the box you are backing up, you must have a second
> instance, and even then you introduce more vulnerabilities than the
> configuration where the catalog is on another server. With Oracle9i, Oracle
> added many of the features that were only available in the catalog method
> to the control-file method. According to my Oracle Education Instructor
> John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into these things, Oracle is trying ! to
> emphasize that the catalog method may not suit everyone's situation and the
> control file method may best suit your need! s. As
> others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers have
> gotten that message.
>
>
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database
> from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advan
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
You can initiate backups from any machine. Here is a cold backup script to illustrate backing up from a database server connecting to a rman catalog on another machine. #!/bin/sh ORACLE_HOME=/opt/oracle/dbserver/9.0.1 export ORACLE_HOME ORACLE_SID=XXX export ORACLE_SID NLS_DATE_FORMAT=DD-MON-:HH24:MI:SS export NLS_DATE_FORMAT $ORACLE_HOME/bin/rman < wrote: Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I think Oracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage the backups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the way to go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you could slide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN commands you could have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the catalog method on the box you are backing up, you must have a second instance, and even then you introduce more vulnerabilities than the configuration where the catalog is on another server. With Oracle9i, Oracle added many of the features that were only available in the catalog method to the control-file method. According to my Oracle Education Instructor John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into these things, Oracle is trying ! to emphasize that the catalog method may not suit everyone's situation and the control file method may best suit your need! s. As others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers have gotten that message. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OM Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: MacGregor, Ian A. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Jared - Excellent point. My understanding is that the RMAN catalog must run on an Oracle version equal or greater than the target instances. Has anyone found this requirement to be a big pain? I am looking to configuring RMAN on another set of servers, but they are Oracle 9.2 and my current RMAN server is 8.1.6, and would need an O.S. upgrade to move to 9.2. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis, The cron job can run on B only if it is the same version of Oracle that is on A. Jared DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/29/2003 03:14 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject:RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups Walter - What you describe is the standard RMAN configuration. Box B contains the RMAN catalog, therefore it must command the backup. And so the cron job must run on Box B. But the actual backup occurs on the target machine (A in your example). If you back up to tape, you must have an MML (Media Management Library). You can also back up to disk (that is what I do). Since the actual backup occurs on the target machine, not much network traffic is involved. RMAN sends some commands, the target sends some status back, and that is about it. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it. Let me clarify what I'm seeking. In my example, I am using a centralized catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to tape. BCV's are not involved. Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN backup was run from a box that was different from the database server machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all the backups are running from. In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as t -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Walter - This is a common question about RMAN. The Oracle response has been "not a significant amount". I haven't noticed anything, but haven't specifically tried to measure it. As I mentioned, there are only a few commands going B -> A and some status information going A -> B. The actual backup itself occurs entirely on A. If this is unacceptable, then consider using the RMAN control file configuration. Then only A is involved. I wouldn't recommend putting the RMAN catalog on A, because that introduces vulnerabilities and the reason for moving to RMAN is to reduce vulnerabilities. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 6:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In my scenario, target DB to be backed up on box A and rman database/catalog on Box B, I can "run" the backup from A or from B no problem. But, what I'm trying to get at is it better, worse or indifferent to "run" the backup from B or A. I would think there is extra network traffic to "run" the backup from B. DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Walter - What you describe is the standard RMAN configuration. Box B contains the RMAN catalog, therefore it must command the backup. And so the cron job must run on Box B. But the actual backup occurs on the target machine (A in your example). If you back up to tape, you must have an MML (Media Management Library). You can also back up to disk (that is what I do). Since the actual backup occurs on the target machine, not much network traffic is involved. RMAN sends some commands, the target sends some status back, and that is about it. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it. Let me clarify what I'm seeking! . In my example, I am using a centralized catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to tape. BCV's are not involved. Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN backup was run from a box that was different from the database server machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all the backups are running from. In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as the database? If not, could someone explain why? Does this make sense? Thanks again. -w DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I think Oracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage the backups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the way to go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you could slide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN commands you could have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the catalog method on the box you are backing up, you must have a second instance, and even then you introduce more vulnerabilities than the configuration where the catalog is on another server. With Oracle9i, Oracle added many of the features that were only available in the catalog method to the control-file method. According to my Oracle Education Instructor John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into these things, Oracle is trying ! to emphasize that the catalog method may not suit everyone's situation and the c! ontrol file method may best suit your needs. As others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers have gotten that message. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OM Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San! Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spel
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
-w. The method I use to perform the RMAN backup is different than the question you posed. Box-a is the database(target). OpenVMS - Production server Box-b is the repository(catalog) database. OpenVMS - Development server Box-c is the controling(cron source). Linux - play and learn server. I have the Box-c cron run the RMAN commands and connect to the target and catalog servers. The box-c RMAN then initiates the backup level0 and level2 at different days that I set in the cron. The log of events are stored on the box-c ( for ease of reading and access) The RMAN backups are stored on the box-a disks eliminating network traffic and ease of restoral if needed. Box-a has a large storage capacity for the RMAN backups and the backups are copied to tape nightly by the os backup. The network traffic is as follows: box-a to box-b catalog information only. box-a to box-c RMAN commands and log info. box-c to box-b RMAN commands. It keeps the traffic to a minamum and allows me the ability the perform the RMAN functions on an OS that is friendly to me. Ron >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/29/03 05:30PM >>> Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it. Let me clarify what I'm seeking. In my example, I am using a centralized catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to tape. BCV's are not involved. Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN backup was run from a box that was different from the database server machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all the backups are running from. In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as the database? If not, could someone explain why? Does this make sense? Thanks again. -w DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I think Oracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage the backups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the way to go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you could slide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN commands you could have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the catalog method on the box you are backing up, you must have a second instance, and even then you introduce more vulnerabilities than the configuration where the catalog is on another server. With Oracle9i, Oracle added many of the features that were only available in the catalog method to the control-file method. According to my Oracle Education Instructor John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into these things, Oracle is trying to emphasize that the catalog method may not suit everyone's situation and the control file method may best suit your needs. As others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers have gotten that message. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list y
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Dennis, The cron job can run on B only if it is the same version of Oracle that is on A. Jared DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/29/2003 03:14 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject:RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups Walter - What you describe is the standard RMAN configuration. Box B contains the RMAN catalog, therefore it must command the backup. And so the cron job must run on Box B. But the actual backup occurs on the target machine (A in your example). If you back up to tape, you must have an MML (Media Management Library). You can also back up to disk (that is what I do). Since the actual backup occurs on the target machine, not much network traffic is involved. RMAN sends some commands, the target sends some status back, and that is about it. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it. Let me clarify what I'm seeking. In my example, I am using a centralized catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to tape. BCV's are not involved. Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN backup was run from a box that was different from the database server machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all the backups are running from. In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as t -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
In my scenario, target DB to be backed up on box A and rman database/catalog on Box B, I can "run" the backup from A or from B no problem. But, what I'm trying to get at is it better, worse or indifferent to "run" the backup from B or A. I would think there is extra network traffic to "run" the backup from B.DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Walter - What you describe is the standard RMAN configuration. Box Bcontains the RMAN catalog, therefore it must command the backup. And so thecron job must run on Box B. But the actual backup occurs on the targetmachine (A in your example). If you back up to tape, you must have an MML(Media Management Library). You can also back up to disk (that is what Ido).Since the actual backup occurs on the target machine, not much networktraffic is involved. RMAN sends some commands, the target sends some statusback, and that is about it.Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:30 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LThanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it.Let me clarify what I'm seeking! . In my example, I am using a centralizedcatalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are totape. BCV's are not involved.Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the targetserver via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMANbackup was run from a box that was different from the database servermachine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it impliesthis was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where allthe backups are running from.In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job onbox B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive andtherefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine asthe database? If not, could someone explain why?Does this make sense?Thanks again.-wDENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I thinkOracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage thebackups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the wayto go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you couldslide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN commands youcould have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the catalog methodon the box you are backing up, you must have a second instance, and eventhen you introduce more vulnerabilities than the configuration where thecatalog is on another server.With Oracle9i, Oracle added many of the features that were onlyavailable in the catalog method to the control-file method. According to myOracle Education Instructor John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into thesethings, Oracle is trying ! to emphasize that the catalog method may not suiteveryone's situation and the c! ontrol file method may best suit your needs.As others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers havegotten that message.Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LHi,Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database froma box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to thiskind of configuration?For example:Box-A (production db server)Box-B (rman db server)A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A.Thanks in advance!-w-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMSINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OMFat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan! Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMSINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BO! DY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Walter - What you describe is the standard RMAN configuration. Box B contains the RMAN catalog, therefore it must command the backup. And so the cron job must run on Box B. But the actual backup occurs on the target machine (A in your example). If you back up to tape, you must have an MML (Media Management Library). You can also back up to disk (that is what I do). Since the actual backup occurs on the target machine, not much network traffic is involved. RMAN sends some commands, the target sends some status back, and that is about it. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it. Let me clarify what I'm seeking. In my example, I am using a centralized catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to tape. BCV's are not involved. Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN backup was run from a box that was different from the database server machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all the backups are running from. In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as the database? If not, could someone explain why? Does this make sense? Thanks again. -w DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I think Oracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage the backups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the way to go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you could slide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN commands you could have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the catalog method on the box you are backing up, you must have a second instance, and even then you introduce more vulnerabilities than the configuration where the catalog is on another server. With Oracle9i, Oracle added many of the features that were only available in the catalog method to the control-file method. According to my Oracle Education Instructor John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into these things, Oracle is trying ! to emphasize that the catalog method may not suit everyone's situation and the control file method may best suit your needs. As others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers have gotten that message. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OM Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Thanks Tim, Dennis and Ron for your feedback. I appreciate it. Let me clarify what I'm seeking. In my example, I am using a centralized catalog which is on its own dedicated database/server and backups are to tape. BCV's are not involved. Normally, in my experience, RMAN backups are initiated from the target server via a cron job. But, I've seen a case where a cron job for an RMAN backup was run from a box that was different from the database server machine. I find this configuration strange and confusing because it implies this was done for a "reason" and makes life difficult to find out where all the backups are running from. In the scenario of backing up the database on box A via an rman/cron job on box B, is this particular configuration more network resource intensive and therefore slower versus the backup being initiated from the same machine as the database? If not, could someone explain why? Does this make sense? Thanks again. -w DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I thinkOracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage thebackups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the wayto go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you couldslide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN commands youcould have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the catalog methodon the box you are backing up, you must have a second instance, and eventhen you introduce more vulnerabilities than the configuration where thecatalog is on another server.With Oracle9i, Oracle added many of the features that were onlyavailable in the catalog method to the control-file method. According to myOracle Education Instructor John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into thesethings, Oracle is trying ! to emphasize that the catalog method may not suiteveryone's situation and the control file method may best suit your needs.As others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers havegotten that message.Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LHi,Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database froma box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to thiskind of configuration?For example:Box-A (production db server)Box-B (rman db server)A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A.Thanks in advance!-w-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMSINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OMFat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Sure, several: 1) Centralized backup management, maybe there will eventually be a Box-C which can also be backed up by Box-B. 2) Maybe Box-B is a Veritas master media server or the equivilent with other backup software. 3) Most important: Box-A has a 'crash and burn', you don't lose your RMAN catalog too. >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/29/03 11:54AM >>> Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Darrell Landrum INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Walter - As RMAN was introduced in Oracle8i, that was the ideal. I think Oracle viewed RMAN as a high-level feature that would help you manage the backups for large server farms. They emphasized that the catalog was the way to go. With the catalog on another box, if the server was toasted, you could slide another system into that spot and with a couple of RMAN commands you could have that up and going again. Obviously if you use the catalog method on the box you are backing up, you must have a second instance, and even then you introduce more vulnerabilities than the configuration where the catalog is on another server. With Oracle9i, Oracle added many of the features that were only available in the catalog method to the control-file method. According to my Oracle Education Instructor John Hibbard who is pretty plugged into these things, Oracle is trying to emphasize that the catalog method may not suit everyone's situation and the control file method may best suit your needs. As others on this list have pointed out, not all conference speakers have gotten that message. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:55 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
-w A simple disk crash containing the database and the RMAN data woulf wipe you out. If bax-a crashed you could use box-b to recover your data. Ron >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/29/03 12:54PM >>> Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Well How about if you are performing BCV snapshots of the storage under Box-A (prod server) and then mounting those BCVs on Box-B, mounting (not opening!) the database on Box-B, and performing RMAN backups? That would remove any resource consumption from the all-important Box-A as far as backups are concerned. Of course, archived redo log backups should continue to be performed from Box-A, but the datafile backups can be performed from Box-B. I'm not sure, but perhaps Box-B would even be able to perform the "re-silvering" operation to re-mirror the BCV volumes back into the main RAID-1 set, thus truly relieving Box-A of the burdens of backups... It would be highly advisable to use a centralized "recovery catalog" database in this situation (instead of NOCATALOG mode). Since both database images on both servers will have the same DBID, the "recovery catalog" database should record both types of backups (datafile on Box-B and everything else on Box-A) as if they were all performed from Box-A... Just an idea... -Tim > Hi, > > Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to > backup a database from a box other than the database box > itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of > configuration? > > For example: > > Box-A (production db server) > Box-B (rman db server) > > A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database > from Box-A. > > > Thanks in advance! > > -w > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Just a thought. Possibly to assist in recovery of the database box. If you have a complete media failure on the DB host, you greatly simplify the recovery process if your RMAN database is somewhere safe. Steve McClure -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Walter KSent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 9:55 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w
RMAN - Remote vs Local Backups
Hi, Can anyone think of a reason(s) why one WOULD want to backup a database from a box other than the database box itself? Are there any advantages to this kind of configuration? For example: Box-A (production db server) Box-B (rman db server) A cron job runs on Box-B which backups up the database from Box-A. Thanks in advance! -w
RE: may not be necessary -- was RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN
Chris, What I plan to do is to issue the series of ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP commands, to cover all the tablespaces, _before_ the Snaphshot is created and then issue the ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP commands, without using the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND. I will be referring to http://www.hds.com/pdf/ods.pdf for the outline of the backup procedure. I wonder if you could send me the Hitachi SAN and Oracle DB scripts in use at your site, or any notes on them ? Hemant At 10:03 AM 28-03-03 -0800, you wrote: We use the 'shadow mirror' process on a Hitachi SAN (with Oracle 8.1.7 on Solaris 8 and Veritas VxFS) successfully to refresh our development db without a suspend, or even hot backup mode. After the hair that I didn't pull out turned gray (though I am not willing to detail the incompetence on a semi-public list), we got the hardware/file system set up correctly and we have done this several times with no trouble. One issue I had with Hitachi support was that they insisted I had to suspend the database at the time of the split when we were seeing data corruption that was clearly unrelated to Oracle behavior. It turned out to be low level misconfiguration, I believe at the Veritas file system level. I never got a satisfactory explanation. Here is my current (possibly inaccurate) understanding of the process. I would be more than happy to be corrected on any of the details. The shadow mirror process is 'atomic' in the sense that there is some kind of journaling so that when the mirror is split, it is done so that the shadow is a copy of the disk at a particular time, so it looks like the disk would look after a crash or a shutdown abort. Oracle crash recovery has worked as advertised, which is sufficient for our development db needs. If we do get a bad mirror, we would be able to resync and resplit quickly. But as I said, we've done this without incident at least 8 or 9 times. The only times we've had to resync and resplit were due to human error. If you are using Shadow mirror, and this is for backup purposes, you may want the extra security of hot backup. But the mirror split should not cause split blocks, so I'm not sure that it would actually do much for you. To be honest, I haven't thought through all the ramifications of using this as a backup method. If you're not using Shadow mirror, but some other mirror method, the above may not apply. Hope this helps. -Chris -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Sarnowski, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Hemant K Chitale My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: may not be necessary -- was RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with
We use the 'shadow mirror' process on a Hitachi SAN (with Oracle 8.1.7 on Solaris 8 and Veritas VxFS) successfully to refresh our development db without a suspend, or even hot backup mode. After the hair that I didn't pull out turned gray (though I am not willing to detail the incompetence on a semi-public list), we got the hardware/file system set up correctly and we have done this several times with no trouble. One issue I had with Hitachi support was that they insisted I had to suspend the database at the time of the split when we were seeing data corruption that was clearly unrelated to Oracle behavior. It turned out to be low level misconfiguration, I believe at the Veritas file system level. I never got a satisfactory explanation. Here is my current (possibly inaccurate) understanding of the process. I would be more than happy to be corrected on any of the details. The shadow mirror process is 'atomic' in the sense that there is some kind of journaling so that when the mirror is split, it is done so that the shadow is a copy of the disk at a particular time, so it looks like the disk would look after a crash or a shutdown abort. Oracle crash recovery has worked as advertised, which is sufficient for our development db needs. If we do get a bad mirror, we would be able to resync and resplit quickly. But as I said, we've done this without incident at least 8 or 9 times. The only times we've had to resync and resplit were due to human error. If you are using Shadow mirror, and this is for backup purposes, you may want the extra security of hot backup. But the mirror split should not cause split blocks, so I'm not sure that it would actually do much for you. To be honest, I haven't thought through all the ramifications of using this as a backup method. If you're not using Shadow mirror, but some other mirror method, the above may not apply. Hope this helps. -Chris > -Original Message- > From: Hemant K Chitale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 9:44 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: may not be necessary -- was RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with > > > > Jeremiah / Deborah, > > My understanding is/was that the Snapshot creation wasn't > atomic -- it can > take "a little bit of time" > and, therefore, it becomes necessary to suspend I/O. > Now, I haven't had a chance yet to speak to the Sun/Hitachi > engineers and I > am going > by what management has understood and conveyed to me -- that > the database must > be "quiesced". Hopefully, next week, I will be allowed to > speak to the > engineers before > they set up the SAN. > > Reading Oracle's documentation in the Backup and Recovery guide > "Using the Oracle8i SUSPEND/RESUME functionality, you can > suspend I/O to > the database, then split the mirror and make a backup of the > split mirror. > This feature, which complements the hot backup functionality, > allows you to > quiesce the database so that no new I/O can be performed. You > can then > access the suspended database to make backups without I/O > interference. > Note: Some RAID devices benefit from suspending writes while > the split > operation is occurring; your RAID vendor can advise you on > whether your > system would benefit from this feature. > " > and > "After a successful database suspension, you can back up the > database to > disk or break the mirrors. Because suspending a database does > not guarantee > immediate termination of I/O, Oracle recommends that you precede the > SUSPEND statement with a BEGIN BACKUP statement to place the > tablespaces in > hot backup mode. > > You must use conventional operating system backup methods to > back up split > mirrors. RMAN cannot make database backups or copies because these > operations require reading the datafile headers. After the > database backup > is finished or the mirrors are re-silvered, then you can > resume normal > database operations using the RESUME statement. > > Backing up a suspended database without splitting mirrors can > cause an > extended database outage because the database is inaccessible > during this > time. If backups are taken by splitting mirrors, however, > then the outage > is nominal. The outage time depends on the size of cache to > flush, the > number of datafiles, and the time required to break the mirror > " > > I did get the impression that a SUSPEND was necessary. > > However, I have read a Hitachi document at > http://www.hds.com/pdf/ods.pdf > and I think that a SUSPEND is not mandatory. > > I will come back to the list when I get more information from > t
RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
Jeremiah, No, we don't use suspend since these split/hot backup scripts have been in use since V8.0 and I saw no advantage to using suspend. As you say, taking production out of action for no good reason. With regards to using a split controlfile, do you believe there is a difference between this and using a controlfile after a hard system crash? In both cases, consistency will depend on wheather a write to disk was ongoing or completed. I'll have to check with the guru to see if the split code would interrupt a write in progress. In the 4-5 years that we have been creating a reporting instance this way (on a daily basis), nearly all failures could be attributed to bad disks, and this instance is not critical. On the other hand production backups use the same method. I checked my scripts and while the comments say I backup the controlfile, the code does not. I will definitely correct this. Thanks for emphasizing the need for a binary controlfile as part of a complete hot backup. Mike Hand Polaroid Corp. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Michael, Your split is no different from a very fast hot backup. So, it does not matter that the split is not atomic. Just use hot backup mode, and generate a binary controlfile using backup controlfile to 'file' and copy it to your destination. A the destination just recover the one or two logs generated while you did the split. Forget about suspend, it serves no purpose and is just decreasing your system's availability. BTW, your current hot-live copies of controlfiles are potentially invalid and totally unsupported. All that expensive equipment and you're suspending! Don't take the thing out of service unnecessarily! -- Jeremiah Wilton http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Hand, Michael T wrote: > Jeremiah, > The only reason I could forsee is if the split is not atomic. This is the > case > in our (Non-SAN) environment. The split takes several minutes and the > control > files have been mis-matched when the DB copy was started on the reporting > server. > My solution under V8.0 was to use only one of the control files for > reporting > database. > > My $0.02 > Mike Hand -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hand, Michael T INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
Mike, I, too, was thinking that the Snapshot or split operation was not atomic and requires a suspension of I/O. However, [see my other posting to Oracle-L], I now believe that Jeremiah is right and that a SUSPEND should not be necessary for the datafiles. Reading postings on MetaLink and reading "between the lines" in the Oracle documentation, it may be the case that some implementations of splitting-mirrors may not work unless I/O is really suspended and that is why Oracle offers the SUSPEND option. EMC and Hitachi do not seem to require a SUSPEND. As for the controlfile, since an ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP doesn't really stop updates to the controlfile, and an OS copy of the controlfile might be "inconsistent" to Oracle, a binary backup would become necessary. The datafile backup by the OS is "inconsistent" but not fuzzy as the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP command has been issued so Oracle decides to apply archive logs. Hemant At 10:39 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: Jeremiah, The only reason I could forsee is if the split is not atomic. This is the case in our (Non-SAN) environment. The split takes several minutes and the control files have been mis-matched when the DB copy was started on the reporting server. My solution under V8.0 was to use only one of the control files for reporting database. My $0.02 Mike Hand -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Why do you have to suspend? -- Jeremiah Wilton http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Hemant K Chitale wrote: > > We want true server-less backups. I know that RMAN's overhead is [much] lower > than that of the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN/END BACKUP but the > Snapshot method in a SAN [akin to splitting and resilivering a mirror, in > some ways] > should be much faster. The database is in BACKUP mode only for the time it > takes the SAN to create the Snapshot which, I've been told, is seconds or > minutes, > irrespective of the size of the database. [Of course, there will be some > time lag > between the first ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP and the > ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND command when the database will be doing a > Checkpoint at each Tablespace, and writing more Redo for transactions upto > the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND and will the END BACKUPs are still being issued.] > > And I cannot use RMAN with the Snapshot method. I must SUSPEND the database > and RMAN does not support that. > > See > http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/A87860_01/doc/server.817/a76993/osba ckup.htm#4233 > "Making Backups in Suspend Mode" in Chapter 4 "Performing Operating System > Backups" > of the 8i Backup and Recovery Guide. > > Hemant > > At 05:38 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: > >Hemant - If you've got to rework your backup script anyway (and retest it), > >why not consider switching to RMAN at this time? In my experience, > >negligible interference with production during a hot backup. > > > >Dennis Williams > >DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA > >Lifetouch, Inc. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:49 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > >Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. > >Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; > >host cp ; > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > >On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups > >using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the > >commands : > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > >.. > >.. > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > > > >ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > >> take a "snapshot" > >ALTER SYSTEM RESUME > > > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > >.. > >.. > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > > > >Would that be right ? What are real-world experiences > >[bugs / time required for the SUSPEND/RESUME, actually > >flushing all I/O to the disks] ? > > > >The SAN will be a Hitachi 9970 sold by Sun. > >The databases will be 8.1.7 32-bit / 64-bit on Solaris 8. > > > >Hemant K Chitale > >http://hkchital.tripod.com > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > >-- > >Author: Hemant K Chitale > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > >San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > >- > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list
may not be necessary -- was RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with
Jeremiah / Deborah, My understanding is/was that the Snapshot creation wasn't atomic -- it can take "a little bit of time" and, therefore, it becomes necessary to suspend I/O. Now, I haven't had a chance yet to speak to the Sun/Hitachi engineers and I am going by what management has understood and conveyed to me -- that the database must be "quiesced". Hopefully, next week, I will be allowed to speak to the engineers before they set up the SAN. Reading Oracle's documentation in the Backup and Recovery guide "Using the Oracle8i SUSPEND/RESUME functionality, you can suspend I/O to the database, then split the mirror and make a backup of the split mirror. This feature, which complements the hot backup functionality, allows you to quiesce the database so that no new I/O can be performed. You can then access the suspended database to make backups without I/O interference. Note: Some RAID devices benefit from suspending writes while the split operation is occurring; your RAID vendor can advise you on whether your system would benefit from this feature. " and "After a successful database suspension, you can back up the database to disk or break the mirrors. Because suspending a database does not guarantee immediate termination of I/O, Oracle recommends that you precede the SUSPEND statement with a BEGIN BACKUP statement to place the tablespaces in hot backup mode. You must use conventional operating system backup methods to back up split mirrors. RMAN cannot make database backups or copies because these operations require reading the datafile headers. After the database backup is finished or the mirrors are re-silvered, then you can resume normal database operations using the RESUME statement. Backing up a suspended database without splitting mirrors can cause an extended database outage because the database is inaccessible during this time. If backups are taken by splitting mirrors, however, then the outage is nominal. The outage time depends on the size of cache to flush, the number of datafiles, and the time required to break the mirror " I did get the impression that a SUSPEND was necessary. However, I have read a Hitachi document at http://www.hds.com/pdf/ods.pdf and I think that a SUSPEND is not mandatory. I will come back to the list when I get more information from the Sun/Hitachi engineers and see the scripts/script-templates that they will be providing. Hemant At 08:04 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: Why do you have to suspend? -- Jeremiah Wilton http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Hemant K Chitale wrote: > > We want true server-less backups. I know that RMAN's overhead is [much] lower > than that of the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN/END BACKUP but the > Snapshot method in a SAN [akin to splitting and resilivering a mirror, in > some ways] > should be much faster. The database is in BACKUP mode only for the time it > takes the SAN to create the Snapshot which, I've been told, is seconds or > minutes, > irrespective of the size of the database. [Of course, there will be some > time lag > between the first ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP and the > ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND command when the database will be doing a > Checkpoint at each Tablespace, and writing more Redo for transactions upto > the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND and will the END BACKUPs are still being issued.] > > And I cannot use RMAN with the Snapshot method. I must SUSPEND the database > and RMAN does not support that. > > See > http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/A87860_01/doc/server.817/a76993/osbackup.htm#4233 > "Making Backups in Suspend Mode" in Chapter 4 "Performing Operating System > Backups" > of the 8i Backup and Recovery Guide. > > Hemant > > At 05:38 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: > >Hemant - If you've got to rework your backup script anyway (and retest it), > >why not consider switching to RMAN at this time? In my experience, > >negligible interference with production during a hot backup. > > > >Dennis Williams > >DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA > >Lifetouch, Inc. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:49 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > >Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. > >Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; > >host cp ; > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > >On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups > >using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the > >commands : > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > >.. > >.. > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > > > >ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > >&
RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
Michael, Your split is no different from a very fast hot backup. So, it does not matter that the split is not atomic. Just use hot backup mode, and generate a binary controlfile using backup controlfile to 'file' and copy it to your destination. A the destination just recover the one or two logs generated while you did the split. Forget about suspend, it serves no purpose and is just decreasing your system's availability. BTW, your current hot-live copies of controlfiles are potentially invalid and totally unsupported. All that expensive equipment and you're suspending! Don't take the thing out of service unnecessarily! -- Jeremiah Wilton http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Hand, Michael T wrote: > Jeremiah, > The only reason I could forsee is if the split is not atomic. This is the > case > in our (Non-SAN) environment. The split takes several minutes and the > control > files have been mis-matched when the DB copy was started on the reporting > server. > My solution under V8.0 was to use only one of the control files for > reporting > database. > > My $0.02 > Mike Hand > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:04 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > Why do you have to suspend? > > -- > Jeremiah Wilton > http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Hemant K Chitale wrote: > > > > > We want true server-less backups. I know that RMAN's overhead is [much] > lower > > than that of the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN/END BACKUP but the > > Snapshot method in a SAN [akin to splitting and resilivering a mirror, in > > some ways] > > should be much faster. The database is in BACKUP mode only for the time > it > > takes the SAN to create the Snapshot which, I've been told, is seconds or > > minutes, > > irrespective of the size of the database. [Of course, there will be some > > time lag > > between the first ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP and the > > ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND command when the database will be doing a > > Checkpoint at each Tablespace, and writing more Redo for transactions upto > > the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND and will the END BACKUPs are still being issued.] > > > > And I cannot use RMAN with the Snapshot method. I must SUSPEND the > database > > and RMAN does not support that. > > > > See > > > http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/A87860_01/doc/server.817/a76993/osba > ckup.htm#4233 > > "Making Backups in Suspend Mode" in Chapter 4 "Performing Operating > System > > Backups" > > of the 8i Backup and Recovery Guide. > > > > Hemant > > > > At 05:38 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: > > >Hemant - If you've got to rework your backup script anyway (and retest > it), > > >why not consider switching to RMAN at this time? In my experience, > > >negligible interference with production during a hot backup. > > > > > >Dennis Williams > > >DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA > > >Lifetouch, Inc. > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > > >Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:49 PM > > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > > > >Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. > > >Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the > > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; > > >host cp ; > > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > > > >On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups > > >using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the > > >commands : > > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > > >.. > > >.. > > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > > > > > >ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > > >> take a "snapshot" > > >ALTER SYSTEM RESUME > > > > > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > >.. > > >.. > > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > > > > > > >Would that be right ? What are real-world experiences > > >[bugs / time required for the SUSPEND/RESUME, actually > > >flushing all I/O to the disks] ? > > > > > >The SAN will be a Hitachi 9970 sold by Sun. > > >The databases will be 8.1.7 32-bit / 64-bit on Solaris 8. > > > > > >Hemant K Chitale > > >http://hkchital.tripod.com > > >-- > > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > > >-- > > >Author: Hemant K Chitale > > > INET: [EMAIL
RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
Jeremiah, The only reason I could forsee is if the split is not atomic. This is the case in our (Non-SAN) environment. The split takes several minutes and the control files have been mis-matched when the DB copy was started on the reporting server. My solution under V8.0 was to use only one of the control files for reporting database. My $0.02 Mike Hand -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 11:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Why do you have to suspend? -- Jeremiah Wilton http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Hemant K Chitale wrote: > > We want true server-less backups. I know that RMAN's overhead is [much] lower > than that of the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN/END BACKUP but the > Snapshot method in a SAN [akin to splitting and resilivering a mirror, in > some ways] > should be much faster. The database is in BACKUP mode only for the time it > takes the SAN to create the Snapshot which, I've been told, is seconds or > minutes, > irrespective of the size of the database. [Of course, there will be some > time lag > between the first ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP and the > ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND command when the database will be doing a > Checkpoint at each Tablespace, and writing more Redo for transactions upto > the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND and will the END BACKUPs are still being issued.] > > And I cannot use RMAN with the Snapshot method. I must SUSPEND the database > and RMAN does not support that. > > See > http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/A87860_01/doc/server.817/a76993/osba ckup.htm#4233 > "Making Backups in Suspend Mode" in Chapter 4 "Performing Operating System > Backups" > of the 8i Backup and Recovery Guide. > > Hemant > > At 05:38 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: > >Hemant - If you've got to rework your backup script anyway (and retest it), > >why not consider switching to RMAN at this time? In my experience, > >negligible interference with production during a hot backup. > > > >Dennis Williams > >DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA > >Lifetouch, Inc. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:49 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > >Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. > >Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; > >host cp ; > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > >On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups > >using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the > >commands : > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > >.. > >.. > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > > > >ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > >> take a "snapshot" > >ALTER SYSTEM RESUME > > > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > >.. > >.. > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > > > >Would that be right ? What are real-world experiences > >[bugs / time required for the SUSPEND/RESUME, actually > >flushing all I/O to the disks] ? > > > >The SAN will be a Hitachi 9970 sold by Sun. > >The databases will be 8.1.7 32-bit / 64-bit on Solaris 8. > > > >Hemant K Chitale > >http://hkchital.tripod.com > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > >-- > >Author: Hemant K Chitale > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > >San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > >- > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > >-- > >Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > >San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > >- > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be r
RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
Why do you have to suspend? -- Jeremiah Wilton http://www.speakeasy.net/~jwilton On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Hemant K Chitale wrote: > > We want true server-less backups. I know that RMAN's overhead is [much] lower > than that of the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN/END BACKUP but the > Snapshot method in a SAN [akin to splitting and resilivering a mirror, in > some ways] > should be much faster. The database is in BACKUP mode only for the time it > takes the SAN to create the Snapshot which, I've been told, is seconds or > minutes, > irrespective of the size of the database. [Of course, there will be some > time lag > between the first ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP and the > ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND command when the database will be doing a > Checkpoint at each Tablespace, and writing more Redo for transactions upto > the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND and will the END BACKUPs are still being issued.] > > And I cannot use RMAN with the Snapshot method. I must SUSPEND the database > and RMAN does not support that. > > See > http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/A87860_01/doc/server.817/a76993/osbackup.htm#4233 > "Making Backups in Suspend Mode" in Chapter 4 "Performing Operating System > Backups" > of the 8i Backup and Recovery Guide. > > Hemant > > At 05:38 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: > >Hemant - If you've got to rework your backup script anyway (and retest it), > >why not consider switching to RMAN at this time? In my experience, > >negligible interference with production during a hot backup. > > > >Dennis Williams > >DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA > >Lifetouch, Inc. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >-Original Message- > >Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:49 PM > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > > >Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. > >Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; > >host cp ; > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > >On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups > >using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the > >commands : > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > >.. > >.. > >ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP > > > >ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > >> take a "snapshot" > >ALTER SYSTEM RESUME > > > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > >.. > >.. > >ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP > > > > > >Would that be right ? What are real-world experiences > >[bugs / time required for the SUSPEND/RESUME, actually > >flushing all I/O to the disks] ? > > > >The SAN will be a Hitachi 9970 sold by Sun. > >The databases will be 8.1.7 32-bit / 64-bit on Solaris 8. > > > >Hemant K Chitale > >http://hkchital.tripod.com > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > >-- > >Author: Hemant K Chitale > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > >San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > >- > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > >-- > >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > >-- > >Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > >San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > >- > >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > Hemant K Chitale > My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Hemant K Chitale > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list
RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
We want true server-less backups. I know that RMAN's overhead is [much] lower than that of the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN/END BACKUP but the Snapshot method in a SAN [akin to splitting and resilivering a mirror, in some ways] should be much faster. The database is in BACKUP mode only for the time it takes the SAN to create the Snapshot which, I've been told, is seconds or minutes, irrespective of the size of the database. [Of course, there will be some time lag between the first ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP and the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND command when the database will be doing a Checkpoint at each Tablespace, and writing more Redo for transactions upto the ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND and will the END BACKUPs are still being issued.] And I cannot use RMAN with the Snapshot method. I must SUSPEND the database and RMAN does not support that. See http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/A87860_01/doc/server.817/a76993/osbackup.htm#4233 "Making Backups in Suspend Mode" in Chapter 4 "Performing Operating System Backups" of the 8i Backup and Recovery Guide. Hemant At 05:38 AM 26-03-03 -0800, you wrote: Hemant - If you've got to rework your backup script anyway (and retest it), why not consider switching to RMAN at this time? In my experience, negligible interference with production during a hot backup. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; host cp ; ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the commands : ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP .. .. ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > take a "snapshot" ALTER SYSTEM RESUME ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP .. .. ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP Would that be right ? What are real-world experiences [bugs / time required for the SUSPEND/RESUME, actually flushing all I/O to the disks] ? The SAN will be a Hitachi 9970 sold by Sun. The databases will be 8.1.7 32-bit / 64-bit on Solaris 8. Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Hemant K Chitale My personal web site is : http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
Hemant - If you've got to rework your backup script anyway (and retest it), why not consider switching to RMAN at this time? In my experience, negligible interference with production during a hot backup. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; host cp ; ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the commands : ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP .. .. ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > take a "snapshot" ALTER SYSTEM RESUME ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP .. .. ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP Would that be right ? What are real-world experiences [bugs / time required for the SUSPEND/RESUME, actually flushing all I/O to the disks] ? The SAN will be a Hitachi 9970 sold by Sun. The databases will be 8.1.7 32-bit / 64-bit on Solaris 8. Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle DB Backups on SAN with ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND
Some of my databases will be migrating to a SAN. Currently, I run hot backups to disk using the ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ; host cp ; ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP On a SAN, where the vendor promises server-less backups using Snapshots, I guess I would have to issue the commands : ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP .. .. ALTER TABLESPACE BEGIN BACKUP ALTER SYSTEM SUSPEND > take a "snapshot" ALTER SYSTEM RESUME ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP .. .. ALTER TABLESPACE END BACKUP Would that be right ? What are real-world experiences [bugs / time required for the SUSPEND/RESUME, actually flushing all I/O to the disks] ? The SAN will be a Hitachi 9970 sold by Sun. The databases will be 8.1.7 32-bit / 64-bit on Solaris 8. Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Hot backups
How about trying these: SVRMGR> set autorecovery on Autorecovery ON SVRMGR> recover database using backup controlfile; Ping Northrop Grumman IT -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 10:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I tried it both ways and got the same result. According to my notes from the Oracle Backup and Recovery course when you apply your redo logs, the control file gets rolled forward along with the data files. I believe that the only time you would get into trouble here is if you had made structural changes after the control file was backed up. This should not be an issue in my application. Peter Schauss Northrop Grumman Corporation -Original Message- Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Peter - Shouldn't you backup the controlfile AFTER completing tablespace backups? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 2:37 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I am implementing hot backups on a small development database using the following approach: 1. From sqlplus: backup controlfile to ''; 2. For each tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace begin backup; - shell: copy files for that tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace end backup; - sqlplus: alter system switch logfile; 3. tar and gzip the tablespace copies and backup control file; As a test, I am restoring the files to another system by doing the following: 1. Copied the init.ora file from the backed up database. 2. Restore the copied tablespaces and control files. 3. Copy the archived redo logs to the directory specified in the init.ora file. 4. Note the number on the most recent redo log. 5. sqlplus internal startup mount recover database until cancel using backup controlfile; (hit return when prompted for the next file until the last redo log noted in step 4 has been processed, then type CANCEL in response to the prompt for the next file.) alter database open reset logs; The above steps work, but I am wondering is there a better way to handle the control files so that I do not have to use the "until cancel" option. Thanks, Peter Schauss Northrop Grumman Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Schauss, Peter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Schauss, Peter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Dong, Ping - Raleigh, NC INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Hot backups
I tried it both ways and got the same result. According to my notes from the Oracle Backup and Recovery course when you apply your redo logs, the control file gets rolled forward along with the data files. I believe that the only time you would get into trouble here is if you had made structural changes after the control file was backed up. This should not be an issue in my application. Peter Schauss Northrop Grumman Corporation -Original Message- Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Peter - Shouldn't you backup the controlfile AFTER completing tablespace backups? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 2:37 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I am implementing hot backups on a small development database using the following approach: 1. From sqlplus: backup controlfile to ''; 2. For each tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace begin backup; - shell: copy files for that tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace end backup; - sqlplus: alter system switch logfile; 3. tar and gzip the tablespace copies and backup control file; As a test, I am restoring the files to another system by doing the following: 1. Copied the init.ora file from the backed up database. 2. Restore the copied tablespaces and control files. 3. Copy the archived redo logs to the directory specified in the init.ora file. 4. Note the number on the most recent redo log. 5. sqlplus internal startup mount recover database until cancel using backup controlfile; (hit return when prompted for the next file until the last redo log noted in step 4 has been processed, then type CANCEL in response to the prompt for the next file.) alter database open reset logs; The above steps work, but I am wondering is there a better way to handle the control files so that I do not have to use the "until cancel" option. Thanks, Peter Schauss Northrop Grumman Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Schauss, Peter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Schauss, Peter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Hot backups
Yes, I believe there is a better way. 1) Get the current SCN 2) Update a record in the DB with SCN# & COMMIT; 3) Get the current SCN; 4) While #1 SCN <> #3 SCN go to #1 5) switch logfile 6) Write #3 SCN out to a file which can be used to decide when to stop applying redo logfiles. 7) After the DB gets opened, you can verify the SCN# in the datafile matches the DB. "Schauss, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> rumman.com>cc: Sent by: Subject: Hot backups [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/10/2003 12:36 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L I am implementing hot backups on a small development database using the following approach: 1. From sqlplus: backup controlfile to ''; 2. For each tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace begin backup; - shell: copy files for that tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace end backup; - sqlplus: alter system switch logfile; 3. tar and gzip the tablespace copies and backup control file; As a test, I am restoring the files to another system by doing the following: 1. Copied the init.ora file from the backed up database. 2. Restore the copied tablespaces and control files. 3. Copy the archived redo logs to the directory specified in the init.ora file. 4. Note the number on the most recent redo log. 5. sqlplus internal startup mount recover database until cancel using backup controlfile; (hit return when prompted for the next file until the last redo log noted in step 4 has been processed, then type CANCEL in response to the prompt for the next file.) alter database open reset logs; The above steps work, but I am wondering is there a better way to handle the control files so that I do not have to use the "until cancel" option. Thanks, Peter Schauss Northrop Grumman Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Schauss, Peter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Hot backups
Peter - Shouldn't you backup the controlfile AFTER completing tablespace backups? Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 2:37 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I am implementing hot backups on a small development database using the following approach: 1. From sqlplus: backup controlfile to ''; 2. For each tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace begin backup; - shell: copy files for that tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace end backup; - sqlplus: alter system switch logfile; 3. tar and gzip the tablespace copies and backup control file; As a test, I am restoring the files to another system by doing the following: 1. Copied the init.ora file from the backed up database. 2. Restore the copied tablespaces and control files. 3. Copy the archived redo logs to the directory specified in the init.ora file. 4. Note the number on the most recent redo log. 5. sqlplus internal startup mount recover database until cancel using backup controlfile; (hit return when prompted for the next file until the last redo log noted in step 4 has been processed, then type CANCEL in response to the prompt for the next file.) alter database open reset logs; The above steps work, but I am wondering is there a better way to handle the control files so that I do not have to use the "until cancel" option. Thanks, Peter Schauss Northrop Grumman Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Schauss, Peter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Hot backups
I am implementing hot backups on a small development database using the following approach: 1. From sqlplus: backup controlfile to ''; 2. For each tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace begin backup; - shell: copy files for that tablespace - sqlplus: alter tablespace end backup; - sqlplus: alter system switch logfile; 3. tar and gzip the tablespace copies and backup control file; As a test, I am restoring the files to another system by doing the following: 1. Copied the init.ora file from the backed up database. 2. Restore the copied tablespaces and control files. 3. Copy the archived redo logs to the directory specified in the init.ora file. 4. Note the number on the most recent redo log. 5. sqlplus internal startup mount recover database until cancel using backup controlfile; (hit return when prompted for the next file until the last redo log noted in step 4 has been processed, then type CANCEL in response to the prompt for the next file.) alter database open reset logs; The above steps work, but I am wondering is there a better way to handle the control files so that I do not have to use the "until cancel" option. Thanks, Peter Schauss Northrop Grumman Corporation -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Schauss, Peter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Rman and controlfile backups.
If you are testing.. and want to try it again.. Backup CONTROL FILE at the
end.. i.e. even after the archive logs are backed up.
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 09:35 AM
> 1) RMAN on Oracle 8.1.7
>
> 2) Create a latest backupset using:
>
> rman nocatalog
>
> run
> {
> allocate channel ch1 type disk;
> backup database;
> backup current controlfile;
> backup archivelog all;
> }
>
> 3) Delete all *.dbf, control and archive log files (simulate a
> catastrophic database loss).
>
> 4) Restore controlfile from the lastest rman backupset using the
> pl/sql script available in the Oracle 8i Recovery Manager User Guide
> and Reference.
>
> 5) Now controlfile is restored and I startup the database nomount.
>
> 6) Attempting to restore database using rman results in rman saying
> that the latest backup set in unavailable.
>
> 7) This is because I used the controlfile as the rman repository. And
> when I back-uped the controlfile, the controlfile did not yet have the
> updated backupset information.
>
> 8) How do you solve this problem?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Lyndon Tiu
> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Nikunj Gupta
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Rman and controlfile backups.
1) RMAN on Oracle 8.1.7
2) Create a latest backupset using:
rman nocatalog
run
{
allocate channel ch1 type disk;
backup database;
backup current controlfile;
backup archivelog all;
}
3) Delete all *.dbf, control and archive log files (simulate a
catastrophic database loss).
4) Restore controlfile from the lastest rman backupset using the
pl/sql script available in the Oracle 8i Recovery Manager User Guide
and Reference.
5) Now controlfile is restored and I startup the database nomount.
6) Attempting to restore database using rman results in rman saying
that the latest backup set in unavailable.
7) This is because I used the controlfile as the rman repository. And
when I back-uped the controlfile, the controlfile did not yet have the
updated backupset information.
8) How do you solve this problem?
Thanks.
--
Lyndon Tiu
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Lyndon Tiu
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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RE: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
FYI... I think BLIB is the tool you're thinking of... It stands for Block Level Incremental Backup... Tim -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Not necessarily. If you're backing up vxfs with Veritas Netbackup and also have someother component from Veritas that I can't recall at the moment, filesystem incrementals are made at the FS block level. You only backup new blocks, or blocks that have been touched. Jared On Wednesday 19 February 2003 12:09, Nelson, Allan wrote: > Actually assuming you checkpoint or commit at least once between backups it > would not make any difference at all. An incremental backup catches > changed files since the last backup which will typically be all your data > files. SCN's get updated in all headers if any thing changes. > > Allan > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we > were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual > hot backups. > > We are running 8i on UNIX. > > I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you > try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in > percentages. > > Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this > being a scientific site. > > Thanks. > Patrice Boivin > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) > > Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes > Technology Services| Services technologiques > Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique > Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Johnston, Tim INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
You're welcome. Since you're interested in that, Veritas can also backup databases in the same way, though we don't have the product for that. Block level incrementals without RMAN. Pretty cool stuff if you ask me, provided recovery is as simple as it is with RMAN. They can work magic when they own the filesystem. ( vxfs ) Jared On Friday 21 February 2003 05:29, Boivin, Patrice J wrote: > that's it. > > Thanks Jared. > > Pat. > > -Original Message- > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:34 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > Not necessarily. If you're backing up vxfs with Veritas Netbackup > and also have someother component from Veritas that I can't recall > at the moment, filesystem incrementals are made at the FS block level. > > You only backup new blocks, or blocks that have been touched. > > Jared > > On Wednesday 19 February 2003 12:09, Nelson, Allan wrote: > > Actually assuming you checkpoint or commit at least once between backups > > it > > > would not make any difference at all. An incremental backup catches > > changed files since the last backup which will typically be all your data > > files. SCN's get updated in all headers if any thing changes. > > > > Allan > > > > -Original Message- > > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:25 PM > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > > > > My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we > > were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the > > usual hot backups. > > > > We are running 8i on UNIX. > > > > I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till > > you > > > try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in > > percentages. > > > > Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this > > being a scientific site. > > > > Thanks. > > Patrice Boivin > > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) > > > > Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes > > Technology Services| Services technologiques > > Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique > > Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO > > > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
that's it. Thanks Jared. Pat. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Not necessarily. If you're backing up vxfs with Veritas Netbackup and also have someother component from Veritas that I can't recall at the moment, filesystem incrementals are made at the FS block level. You only backup new blocks, or blocks that have been touched. Jared On Wednesday 19 February 2003 12:09, Nelson, Allan wrote: > Actually assuming you checkpoint or commit at least once between backups it > would not make any difference at all. An incremental backup catches > changed files since the last backup which will typically be all your data > files. SCN's get updated in all headers if any thing changes. > > Allan > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we > were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual > hot backups. > > We are running 8i on UNIX. > > I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you > try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in > percentages. > > Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this > being a scientific site. > > Thanks. > Patrice Boivin > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) > > Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes > Technology Services| Services technologiques > Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique > Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
Not necessarily. If you're backing up vxfs with Veritas Netbackup and also have someother component from Veritas that I can't recall at the moment, filesystem incrementals are made at the FS block level. You only backup new blocks, or blocks that have been touched. Jared On Wednesday 19 February 2003 12:09, Nelson, Allan wrote: > Actually assuming you checkpoint or commit at least once between backups it > would not make any difference at all. An incremental backup catches > changed files since the last backup which will typically be all your data > files. SCN's get updated in all headers if any thing changes. > > Allan > > -Original Message- > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we > were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual > hot backups. > > We are running 8i on UNIX. > > I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you > try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in > percentages. > > Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this > being a scientific site. > > Thanks. > Patrice Boivin > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) > > Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes > Technology Services| Services technologiques > Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique > Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Hot Backups or RMAN
Ed In my opinion, it comes down to: If you have hot backup running very well on an existing system, stick with it. Otherwise use RMAN. Technically, hot backups can create more redo records, while RMAN has negligible affect on the production system, near as I can tell. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I'm sure this topic has come up before. I don't need to know the difference between these backup methods. I am more curious about which is preferred. >From what I can tell, I'd be a fool not to use RMAN whenever possible. What experiences have you all had with these in production environments? Best, Ed . -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Hot Backups or RMAN
If you are using the media management layer (ie rman talks to tape devices) then you can't beat rman. If rman is just dumping to disk, and these are going to tape manually *and* you only want the most recent backup, then you can't beat rman If you want to be able to restore from various points in time, and you only keep the most recent on disk, then rman is no worse then hot backup, but not much better. rman of course does avoid the hassle of redo logs getting hammered... bottom line (imho): the days where rman was a bucket of crap are long gone. it would be my first choice now for any new db. hth \connor --- Ed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm sure this topic has come up before. I don't > need to know the difference > between these backup methods. I am more curious > about which is preferred. > >From what I can tell, I'd be a fool not to use RMAN > whenever possible. > > What experiences have you all had with these in > production environments? > > Best, > > > Ed > > > . > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: > http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Ed > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 > http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web > hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an > E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of > 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB > ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed > from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information > (like subscribing). > = Connor McDonald web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk web: http://www.oaktable.net email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] "GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day" __ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot backup
Patrice, The redo writes and redo blocks written (from a Statspack snapshot between two periods when backups would have taken place) _may_ give you an indication, as I believe 'updated' blocks are backed up in an incremental. John Kanagaraj Oracle Applications DBA DBSoft Inc (W): 408-970-7002 I don't know what the future holds for me, but I do know who holds my future! ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my employer or clients ** > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:01 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot > backups > > > The difference in size depends on how much your data changes. > > If the percentage of inserts/updates/deletes is relatively small, then > the backup time will decrease dramatically. > > As someone else has pointed out, you will repay those time savings > at restore time. With small incrementals, the time to > restore the backup > files may be insignificant next to the time required for the > tape library > to load the tape and locate the additional backup files. > > Jared > > > > > > > "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 02/19/2003 11:24 AM > Please respond to ORACLE-L > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: > Subject:Veritas Agent for Oracle / > incremental backups vs. hot backups > > > My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups > would be if we > were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead > of the usual > hot backups. > > We are running 8i on UNIX. > > I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really > know 'till > you > try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in > percentages. > > Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS > environment, this > being a scientific site. > > Thanks. > Patrice Boivin > Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) > > Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes > Technology Services| Services technologiques > Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique > Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Boivin, Patrice J > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: John Kanagaraj INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot backups
The difference in size depends on how much your data changes. If the percentage of inserts/updates/deletes is relatively small, then the backup time will decrease dramatically. As someone else has pointed out, you will repay those time savings at restore time. With small incrementals, the time to restore the backup files may be insignificant next to the time required for the tape library to load the tape and locate the additional backup files. Jared "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/2003 11:24 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject:Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot backups My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual hot backups. We are running 8i on UNIX. I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in percentages. Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this being a scientific site. Thanks. Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Hot Backups or RMAN
I'm sure this topic has come up before. I don't need to know the difference between these backup methods. I am more curious about which is preferred. >From what I can tell, I'd be a fool not to use RMAN whenever possible. What experiences have you all had with these in production environments? Best, Ed . -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ed INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
Sorry, I wasn't thinking of RMAN only of an old style hot backup. My mistake. Allan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Allan, I disagree. From what I remember, rman incremental backups are also block-level, hence the savings in tape/disk and time. The tradeoff is at restore time. Unless you are talking about a Veritas utility? There's no other way I know of in Oracle to execute an incremental backup outside of rman. ?? And honestly I wouldn't trust a third-party software tool to do it. I use backupexec/Oracle Agent for hot backups, and those are complete hot backups. If I'm missing something please say so. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Bonehead. Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 Office: 954-935-4117 Fax:954-935-3639 Cell:954-683-4459 -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 3:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually assuming you checkpoint or commit at least once between backups it would not make any difference at all. An incremental backup catches changed files since the last backup which will typically be all your data files. SCN's get updated in all headers if any thing changes. Allan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual hot backups. We are running 8i on UNIX. I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in percentages. Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this being a scientific site. Thanks. Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. [021216] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-505
RE: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
Allan, I disagree. From what I remember, rman incremental backups are also block-level, hence the savings in tape/disk and time. The tradeoff is at restore time. Unless you are talking about a Veritas utility? There's no other way I know of in Oracle to execute an incremental backup outside of rman. ?? And honestly I wouldn't trust a third-party software tool to do it. I use backupexec/Oracle Agent for hot backups, and those are complete hot backups. If I'm missing something please say so. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Bonehead. Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 Office: 954-935-4117 Fax:954-935-3639 Cell:954-683-4459 -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 3:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually assuming you checkpoint or commit at least once between backups it would not make any difference at all. An incremental backup catches changed files since the last backup which will typically be all your data files. SCN's get updated in all headers if any thing changes. Allan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual hot backups. We are running 8i on UNIX. I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in percentages. Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this being a scientific site. Thanks. Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. [021216] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
Patrice, Another list participant may verify or nullify this, but I think that both will take the same space/time. In either case, it should be backing up the entire datafile. Doing incremental backups with RMAN stands a good chance of saving you space/time as it can back up only changed blocks. If Veritas agent is working in conjunction with RMAN for block level incremental, it will likely be your better bet. (Then, of course, 'it depends' on how many block changes from one incremental to the next.) Hope this helps a little. Darrell Landrum >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/03 01:24PM >>> My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual hot backups. We are running 8i on UNIX. I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in percentages. Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this being a scientific site. Thanks. Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Darrell Landrum INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot
Actually assuming you checkpoint or commit at least once between backups it would not make any difference at all. An incremental backup catches changed files since the last backup which will typically be all your data files. SCN's get updated in all headers if any thing changes. Allan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:25 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual hot backups. We are running 8i on UNIX. I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in percentages. Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this being a scientific site. Thanks. Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ This email is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Copying, forwarding or distributing this message by persons or entities other than the addressee is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the material from any computer. This email may have been monitored for policy compliance. [021216] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nelson, Allan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Veritas Agent for Oracle / incremental backups vs. hot backups
My manager asked me to assess how much smaller our backups would be if we were doing incremental backups of our database files, instead of the usual hot backups. We are running 8i on UNIX. I know that the answer is "it depends" and "you can't really know 'till you try", but we are just looking for a ballpark figure, perhaps in percentages. Our databases are between OLTP and DSS, closer to DSS environment, this being a scientific site. Thanks. Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
re SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups
John, re your suggestion to ask the vendors about the Veritas File System, both Sun and Hitachi said that the Veritas VxFS filesystem is not portable across servers. Thus a Sun server cannot read an VxFS file system on an HP server. We cannot, therefore, backup a SAN shadow-image of a Veritas Volume holding VxFS for HP to a Sun backup server as the Sun server cannot mount the file system. Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
AW: was re Backups in a SAN with heterogenous environments
{I can't remember the exact title of my previous email --
it is on my home PC and I am at work right now}
I had asked about options for backups when running
heterogenous environments [eg HP and Sun Database
Servers with DBs on FileSystems] in a single SAN.
We had a meeting with Sun and their local dealer
and Hitachi wich actually suppies the HDS 9XXX
storage systems to Sun. I identified these options
at the end of the meetings
1. Tape library connected to both Sun and HP servers
[SCSI connection]
2. Add a backup server for each OS in to the SAN
[e.g. one backup server for Sun file-systems, another
for HP file-systems]
3. Backup over the Network [standard Veritas Netbackup
client and server]
4. Tape library directly on the SAN switch via FC
and using Veritas NetBackup Shared Storage Option
to share the tape library and yet do LAN-free backups.
My thanks to all those who replied earlier.
Hemant K Chitale
http://hkchital.tripod.com
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INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups
John, I forwarded your suggestion, together, with more information on the Veritas Foundation Suite to the team negotiating the hardware solution with the vendors [my involvement came in as I was allowed to us about how database backups in a SAN were to be done]. Hemant At 09:29 AM 07-02-03 -0800, you wrote: Hemant, Could you check what happens if all the filesystems that were 'shadow copied' were VxFS filesystems? I would assume that Veritas maintains the same formats across *nix versions Btw, I haven't implemented Heterogenous implementations on a SAN, but am just suggesting an alternate... Let us know what they say! John Kanagaraj Oracle Applications DBA DBSoft Inc (W): 408-970-7002 I don't know what the future holds for me, but I do know who holds my future! ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my employer or clients ** > -Original Message- > From: Hemant K Chitale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:34 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups > > > > We are considering implementing a SAN, > using Sun StorEdge SS9970 [OEM from Hitachi], where database > servers will be a mix of Sun Solaris and HP HPUX > running Oracle 8i, 9i, 9iRAC [in phase-2]. > > As the database files will be on File Systems [Sun or HP], > the solutions provider says that backups of the > HP file systems cannot be done by the backup server > running Solaris. > The proposal is to use "shadow copies". The Sun Engineer > says that the "shadow copy" must be mounted as a file > system on the backup server and as the backup server is > a Sun server it wouldn't be able to mount the HP file system. > > How are Heterogenous implementations on a SAN done ? How are > backups done ? > > Hemant K Chitale > http://hkchital.tripod.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Hemant K Chitale > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: John Kanagaraj INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Hemant K Chitale My web site page is : http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: What is minimum privs to have user do hot backups
Here's what I've used: create session select_catalog_role alter database alter tablespace alter system [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hi All, > > If I create a backup user, what is the minimum requirements to connect as > that user and do hot backups? > > Thanks > Rick > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Suzy Vordos INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups
Hemant, Could you check what happens if all the filesystems that were 'shadow copied' were VxFS filesystems? I would assume that Veritas maintains the same formats across *nix versions Btw, I haven't implemented Heterogenous implementations on a SAN, but am just suggesting an alternate... Let us know what they say! John Kanagaraj Oracle Applications DBA DBSoft Inc (W): 408-970-7002 I don't know what the future holds for me, but I do know who holds my future! ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my employer or clients ** > -Original Message- > From: Hemant K Chitale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:34 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups > > > > We are considering implementing a SAN, > using Sun StorEdge SS9970 [OEM from Hitachi], where database > servers will be a mix of Sun Solaris and HP HPUX > running Oracle 8i, 9i, 9iRAC [in phase-2]. > > As the database files will be on File Systems [Sun or HP], > the solutions provider says that backups of the > HP file systems cannot be done by the backup server > running Solaris. > The proposal is to use "shadow copies". The Sun Engineer > says that the "shadow copy" must be mounted as a file > system on the backup server and as the backup server is > a Sun server it wouldn't be able to mount the HP file system. > > How are Heterogenous implementations on a SAN done ? How are > backups done ? > > Hemant K Chitale > http://hkchital.tripod.com > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Hemant K Chitale > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: John Kanagaraj INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
What is minimum privs to have user do hot backups
Hi All, If I create a backup user, what is the minimum requirements to connect as that user and do hot backups? Thanks Rick -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Hot backups vs RMAN, the rebuttal
Hi Jared, Responses in line. Jared Still wrote: > > I think your list of reasons for using RMAN is incomplete. > > The database backup window may need to be shrunk not > because the database is so big, but because there are a lot > of systems to backup, and they use a lot of time and tape. > > RMAN backs up blocks, hot backup backs up files. Agreed Yet many sites do not have this pressure on their backup window. These sites often panic when one of the incrementals is corrupt/not found. Mind you the same thing happens with hot backups, "What do you mean we can recover from 2 different backups?" It's just easier to do and explain at the file level. And I admit I have a prejudice against block level backups as I was trained by an old-timer from the mainframe days in the 60's who swore the best thing that ever happened in his career was when filesystem backups became possible. This is probably a myth now that should die, but old prejudices die hard. > > Also, finding and retrieving the correct files for restoration is > rather tricky when using a tape library. It can be somewhat > error prone. A recovery at odd hours doesn't help much. > > When you have an automated repository that can be told > 'restore database', and it knows the file names to request > and makes that request to the tape management system, > restores are simplified. This is the problem for the tape management system, I can tell netbackup (Veritas) "Give me the backups from this filesystem on this machine at this time" or "Give me the files from this backup job run on this date" I can restore to any machine and/or any SID very easily. Once you are past as simple recovery in RMAN, (ie a file is corrupt, you have to change the SID, naming conventions on your redo logs are messed up because filesystems are full) it becomes much harder. Not impossible, but much harder. The management of backups once they are on tape is a sysadmin task, the DBA tells the sysadmin the date and the job he wants restored. > > SQL Backtrack was good for that, and now RMAN. > > Our tape library is rather small, and I'm still thankful that > I don't have to browse it for database files to do a restore. > > At a previous employer, we used a couple of StorageTek silos: > you don't really want to browse that to get all the correct files > for a database. Try it when you have several hundred files. > But tape libraries are just about always managed by a backup manager whether it is Veritas, Legato, Omniback I don't browse, I request date and job/filesystems, restore all the files. StorageTek, you lucky guy, I probably wouldn't mind browsing just for the pleasure of playing with the new toy :-) > Dave, it seems that you do work for clients scattered all around, > hot backups probably works best for you. > > Yes, RMAN adds some complexity. It also adds some power > and efficiency. > I agree, big complex sites have to use RMAN, maybe. If you have various versions of Oracle how many versions of RMAN do you need? Makes the site even bigger and more complex. And yet at alot of the places I work where they have ample disk and space I leave RMAN running because it is quicker to restore simple failures and it is a useful traing exercise on what dependencies can do to your availability. RMAN is administratively expensive. The hot backups at these sites are solely used for cloning and complex recoveries. > Just test those recoveries. :) Amen, I can not emphasis this point enough, hots, colds, RMAN or hardware array splits, test your recoveries. If you have done it before you will be able to handle the crisis when it occurs. > > Jared > Dave Off to interview for a contract where they do nightly colds and yet when I ask if they can afford a day's loss of data/work answer "Of course not" -- Dave Morgan Operations Manager, Rigskills Canada Canada's Geographical Oilfield Services Locator http://www.rigskills.ca [EMAIL PROTECTED] 403 399 2442 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Dave Morgan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Antwort: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups
Thanks for the heads-up. I did some looking around at the HP and Veritas websites and came up with information for my managers. Hemant At 12:48 AM 06-02-03 -0800, you wrote: Hemant, have you considerd HP Openview Omniback or related products form Veritas ?? cheers alex Hemant K Chitale t.com.sg>Kopie: Gesendet von:Thema: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06.02.2003 02:33 Bitte antworten an ORACLE-L We are considering implementing a SAN, using Sun StorEdge SS9970 [OEM from Hitachi], where database servers will be a mix of Sun Solaris and HP HPUX running Oracle 8i, 9i, 9iRAC [in phase-2]. As the database files will be on File Systems [Sun or HP], the solutions provider says that backups of the HP file systems cannot be done by the backup server running Solaris. The proposal is to use "shadow copies". The Sun Engineer says that the "shadow copy" must be mounted as a file system on the backup server and as the backup server is a Sun server it wouldn't be able to mount the HP file system. How are Heterogenous implementations on a SAN done ? How are backups done ? Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Hemant K Chitale My web site page is : http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Hot backups vs RMAN, the rebuttal
I think your list of reasons for using RMAN is incomplete. The database backup window may need to be shrunk not because the database is so big, but because there are a lot of systems to backup, and they use a lot of time and tape. RMAN backs up blocks, hot backup backs up files. Also, finding and retrieving the correct files for restoration is rather tricky when using a tape library. It can be somewhat error prone. A recovery at odd hours doesn't help much. When you have an automated repository that can be told 'restore database', and it knows the file names to request and makes that request to the tape management system, restores are simplified. SQL Backtrack was good for that, and now RMAN. Our tape library is rather small, and I'm still thankful that I don't have to browse it for database files to do a restore. At a previous employer, we used a couple of StorageTek silos: you don't really want to browse that to get all the correct files for a database. Try it when you have several hundred files. Dave, it seems that you do work for clients scattered all around, hot backups probably works best for you. Yes, RMAN adds some complexity. It also adds some power and efficiency. Just test those recoveries. :) Jared On Tuesday 04 February 2003 09:59, Dave Morgan wrote: > Hi All, > I followed the recent RMAN discussion with some amusement. > I get alot of my work rescuing sites that are using RMAN yet do not > understand it. RF, your book is invaluable for this, thank you. > > First: > no matter what method you use to backup > TEST YOUR RECOVERY method. > > We don't need no stinking backups, we need recoveries :-) > > When to use RMAN: > Your database is so big you cannot meet your > backup window. > Your database is so busy the system cannot > handle the redo log generation > > Other than that, why do you need the complexities? > Why do you accept the additional dependencies? > Why do you accept the uncertainties? > > Steve, I hate to say it but backup and recovery is and > should be boring! > > Rebuttals to other reasons: > > From TG: RMAN checks for corruption in archivelogs > By the time I am writing archive logs to tape > it is too late. The instance could be in trouble already. > Archive log multiplexing (since 8.??) is the only guard > against this. > From RF: What if you don't understand the script? > So the poor DBA has to read some man pages? > > At http://www.100.com I have posted a simple shell (bourne) > script with environment file that does dynamic hot backups to disk > and has been tested on Oracle versions 6 through 9 and on Solaris, > Linux, AIX, SGI and HP. I have heard from another that she > had it running under CGWIN on Windoze. > > Advantages: > deploy in 5 minutes > integration with Veritas, Legato and other backup managers > is a one line change > use of tar, cpio or ufsdump is a one line change > use of bzip, compress, gzip is a one line change > it's simple, reliable and works just about anywhere > backs up up all init.ora files, all network.ora files > creates and backs up a ASCII control file > backs up all binary control files > cloning from the backup is trivial > easily modifiable > > Disadvantages > raw tape handling has been removed as most of the > complexity in tape backups for Oracle is dealing with > the tape drive. > you should understand the script before you run it > but then you should understand RMAN before you use it too > > Along the backup script I have posted two monitoring/tuning scripts. > As a contractor I often cannot install anything in the SYS schema. > This scripts create no objects in the database at all. Everything is > done with inline views and anonymous PL/SQL blocks. > > I will be posting scripts in the future. The majority will be > in bourne shell (run anywhere is important) and will deal with > fulfilling Oracle's needs in the OS. I have no desire to > duplicate what is already on the web but I have noticed there is > a shortage of OS level maintenace scripts. > > vi and sqlplus are my tools, until .. > > 4 AM MST, it's London Calling (apologies to the Clash) > Dave our db server crashed it's available again but we > have a corrupted /usr/bin, a couple other minor file > systems are missing and Oracle is complaining about a > control file missing > > Easy, one line change in init.ora > with what? /usr/bin/vi :-) > > My first experience with ed. > I tolerated vi before, I love it now :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.n
Antwort: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups
Hemant, have you considerd HP Openview Omniback or related products form Veritas ?? cheers alex Hemant K Chitale t.com.sg>Kopie: Gesendet von:Thema: SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06.02.2003 02:33 Bitte antworten an ORACLE-L We are considering implementing a SAN, using Sun StorEdge SS9970 [OEM from Hitachi], where database servers will be a mix of Sun Solaris and HP HPUX running Oracle 8i, 9i, 9iRAC [in phase-2]. As the database files will be on File Systems [Sun or HP], the solutions provider says that backups of the HP file systems cannot be done by the backup server running Solaris. The proposal is to use "shadow copies". The Sun Engineer says that the "shadow copy" must be mounted as a file system on the backup server and as the backup server is a Sun server it wouldn't be able to mount the HP file system. How are Heterogenous implementations on a SAN done ? How are backups done ? Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
SAN, Heterogenous environments, Backups
We are considering implementing a SAN, using Sun StorEdge SS9970 [OEM from Hitachi], where database servers will be a mix of Sun Solaris and HP HPUX running Oracle 8i, 9i, 9iRAC [in phase-2]. As the database files will be on File Systems [Sun or HP], the solutions provider says that backups of the HP file systems cannot be done by the backup server running Solaris. The proposal is to use "shadow copies". The Sun Engineer says that the "shadow copy" must be mounted as a file system on the backup server and as the backup server is a Sun server it wouldn't be able to mount the HP file system. How are Heterogenous implementations on a SAN done ? How are backups done ? Hemant K Chitale http://hkchital.tripod.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Hemant K Chitale INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Hot backups vs RMAN, the rebuttal
Hi All,
I followed the recent RMAN discussion with some amusement.
I get alot of my work rescuing sites that are using RMAN yet do not
understand it. RF, your book is invaluable for this, thank you.
First:
no matter what method you use to backup
TEST YOUR RECOVERY method.
We don't need no stinking backups, we need recoveries :-)
When to use RMAN:
Your database is so big you cannot meet your
backup window.
Your database is so busy the system cannot
handle the redo log generation
Other than that, why do you need the complexities?
Why do you accept the additional dependencies?
Why do you accept the uncertainties?
Steve, I hate to say it but backup and recovery is and
should be boring!
Rebuttals to other reasons:
>From TG: RMAN checks for corruption in archivelogs
By the time I am writing archive logs to tape
it is too late. The instance could be in trouble already.
Archive log multiplexing (since 8.??) is the only guard
against this.
>From RF: What if you don't understand the script?
So the poor DBA has to read some man pages?
At http://www.100.com I have posted a simple shell (bourne)
script with environment file that does dynamic hot backups to disk
and has been tested on Oracle versions 6 through 9 and on Solaris,
Linux, AIX, SGI and HP. I have heard from another that she
had it running under CGWIN on Windoze.
Advantages:
deploy in 5 minutes
integration with Veritas, Legato and other backup managers
is a one line change
use of tar, cpio or ufsdump is a one line change
use of bzip, compress, gzip is a one line change
it's simple, reliable and works just about anywhere
backs up up all init.ora files, all network.ora files
creates and backs up a ASCII control file
backs up all binary control files
cloning from the backup is trivial
easily modifiable
Disadvantages
raw tape handling has been removed as most of the
complexity in tape backups for Oracle is dealing with
the tape drive.
you should understand the script before you run it
but then you should understand RMAN before you use it too
Along the backup script I have posted two monitoring/tuning scripts.
As a contractor I often cannot install anything in the SYS schema.
This scripts create no objects in the database at all. Everything is
done with inline views and anonymous PL/SQL blocks.
I will be posting scripts in the future. The majority will be
in bourne shell (run anywhere is important) and will deal with
fulfilling Oracle's needs in the OS. I have no desire to
duplicate what is already on the web but I have noticed there is
a shortage of OS level maintenace scripts.
vi and sqlplus are my tools, until ..
4 AM MST, it's London Calling (apologies to the Clash)
Dave our db server crashed it's available again but we
have a corrupted /usr/bin, a couple other minor file
systems are missing and Oracle is complaining about a
control file missing
Easy, one line change in init.ora
with what? /usr/bin/vi :-)
My first experience with ed.
I tolerated vi before, I love it now :-)
--
Dave Morgan
Operations Manager, Rigskills Canada
Canada's Geographical Oilfield Services Locator
http://www.rigskills.ca
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
403 399 2442
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Dave Morgan
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Best backup software for daily backups...
Legato Networker! > -Original Message- > From: Peter R [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:39 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups... > > > Thankyou Ruth, What about Veritas Netbackup and Tivoli > software for bakcups, > Which one do you think is best and effective in long term and > easy to admin. > Thanks again for your only response. > > > > > > > >From: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups... > >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:39:46 -0800 > > > >We are doing the same upgrade, and we will continue to use > rman for all > >backups. > >Ruth > > - Original Message - > > From: Peter R > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:39 AM > > Subject: Best backup software for daily backups... > > > > > > > > Hi Friends, > > > > We are going to upgrade our database(Oracle9i) with Unix > server(AIX5.2), > >I > > would like to know best backup software for new > production server with > > 250-350Gb database size. Ours is 24X7 shop, so we are > going to take > >daily > > hotbackups. Any ideas and experiance from gurus!!! > > > > Thanks > > peter. > > > > > > > > > > _ > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > > -- > > Author: Peter R > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Peter R INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Best backup software for daily backups...
We use RMAN to backup to disk. From disk, our sysadmins backup the files to tape. I believe they are using Legato Networker. They frequently have problems with their backups - I don't know the specifics. I just know that there are many times that I have been thankful that we never bothered to interface RMAN and Networker. My databases are independent of their backup problems (as long as my backups eventually get to tape!). And if I need to create a test database from a backup, it is right there on disk. I don't have to wait for a tape drive to become available. We didn't have the time to get the interface working. And if I remember correctly, there were additional licensing costs for an Oracle/Networker module. I think we're better off in the long run. Jay >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/30/03 08:09AM >>> I work for the State of Vermont and money is always an issue. Rman is included with Oracle so there is no additional cost. I have no experience with other backup software for Oracle. It has worked for me and I have been using since I started here. Ruth - Original Message - From: Peter R To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups... Thankyou Ruth, What about Veritas Netbackup and Tivoli software for bakcups, Which one do you think is best and effective in long term and easy to admin. Thanks again for your only response. >From: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups... >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:39:46 -0800 > >We are doing the same upgrade, and we will continue to use rman for all >backups. >Ruth > - Original Message - > From: Peter R > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:39 AM > Subject: Best backup software for daily backups... > > > > Hi Friends, > > We are going to upgrade our database(Oracle9i) with Unix server(AIX5.2), >I > would like to know best backup software for new production server with > 250-350Gb database size. Ours is 24X7 shop, so we are going to take >daily > hotbackups. Any ideas and experiance from gurus!!! > > Thanks > peter. > > > > > _ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Peter R > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Peter R INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of D&E except to the ex
RE: Best backup software for daily backups...
Peter - Robert Freeman has instructions for configuring RMAN to both Veritas Netbackup and Tivoli. The book is Oracle9i RMAN Backup & Recovery. This might give you some ideas. Someone on this list suggested that it was easier to learn RMAN by backing up to disk, and you could then add an MML later. Dennis Williams DBA, 40%OCP Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I work for the State of Vermont and money is always an issue. Rman is included with Oracle so there is no additional cost. I have no experience with other backup software for Oracle. It has worked for me and I have been using since I started here. Ruth - Original Message - To: Multiple <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:39 AM Thankyou Ruth, What about Veritas Netbackup and Tivoli software for bakcups, Which one do you think is best and effective in long term and easy to admin. Thanks again for your only response. >From: "Ruth Gramolini" < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups... >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:39:46 -0800 > >We are doing the same upgrade, and we will continue to use rman for all >backups. >Ruth > - Original Message - > From: Peter R > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:39 AM > Subject: Best backup software for daily backups... > > > > Hi Friends, > > We are going to upgrade our database(Oracle9i) with Unix server(AIX5.2), >I > would like to know best backup software for new production server with > 250-350Gb database size. Ours is 24X7 shop, so we are going to take >daily > hotbackups. Any ideas and experiance from gurus!!! > > Thanks > peter. > > > > > _ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail <http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail> > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net <http://www.orafaq.net> > -- > Author: Peter R > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com <http://www.fatcity.com> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services > - > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail <http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail> -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net <http://www.orafaq.net> -- Author: Peter R INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com <http://www.fatcity.com> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Best backup software for daily backups...
I work for the State of Vermont and money is always an issue. Rman is included with Oracle so there is no additional cost. I have no experience with other backup software for Oracle. It has worked for me and I have been using since I started here. Ruth - Original Message - From: Peter R To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups... Thankyou Ruth, What about Veritas Netbackup and Tivoli software for bakcups, Which one do you think is best and effective in long term and easy to admin. Thanks again for your only response.>From: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups...>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:39:46 -0800>>We are doing the same upgrade, and we will continue to use rman for all >backups.>Ruth> - Original Message -> From: Peter R> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:39 AM> Subject: Best backup software for daily backups...>>>> Hi Friends,>> We are going to upgrade our database(Oracle9i) with Unix server(AIX5.2), >I> would like to know best backup software for new production server with> 250-350Gb database size. Ours is 24X7 shop, so we are going to take >daily> hotbackups. Any ideas and experiance from gurus!!!>> Thanks> peter.>>>>> _> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail>> --> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net> --> Author: Peter R> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services> -> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).>_STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Peter R INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Best backup software for daily backups...
Thankyou Ruth, What about Veritas Netbackup and Tivoli software for bakcups, Which one do you think is best and effective in long term and easy to admin. Thanks again for your only response. From: "Ruth Gramolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Best backup software for daily backups... Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:39:46 -0800 We are doing the same upgrade, and we will continue to use rman for all backups. Ruth - Original Message - From: Peter R To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:39 AM Subject: Best backup software for daily backups... Hi Friends, We are going to upgrade our database(Oracle9i) with Unix server(AIX5.2), I would like to know best backup software for new production server with 250-350Gb database size. Ours is 24X7 shop, so we are going to take daily hotbackups. Any ideas and experiance from gurus!!! Thanks peter. _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Peter R INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Peter R INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
