Re:RE: Re: A STRANGE QUERY

[system manager]

Thanks Brad,  Thanks Steve, The problem fixed after our DBA drop and
rebuild the primary key. It is so great to have people like you on this
list.

Thanks again,

--
Original Message
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:59:24 -0800

>At first stab...I would guess that there is something foobarred with the
>primary key index.
>
>I would rebuild the primary key and try again. 
>
>Brad O.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 4:45 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>It is not an expensive query.It runs really fast without the primary
>key in production but
>we dont have this problem in the test instance. 
>--
>Original Message
>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:04:42 -0800
>
>>Even stranger is, that you expect us to solve your problem without knowing
>>what exactly the problem is!
>>Does your query consist of a SQL statement? Does it have an execution
plan?
>>
>>Very strange, indeed.
>>
>>Tanel.
>>
>>
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> I have a very strange query:
>>>
>>> The table, data, indexes, constraints are set up exactly same
>>> The query was running ok in the test database but paused the production
>>> system.
>>> It is also running ok in production if the primary key disabled.
>>> Any ideas?   Any input will be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
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>>-- 
>>Author: Tanel Poder
>>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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Re:Re: A STRANGE QUERY

[system manager]

It is not an expensive query.It runs really fast without the primary
key in production but
we dont have this problem in the test instance. 
--
Original Message
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:04:42 -0800

>Even stranger is, that you expect us to solve your problem without knowing
>what exactly the problem is!
>Does your query consist of a SQL statement? Does it have an execution plan?
>
>Very strange, indeed.
>
>Tanel.
>
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I have a very strange query:
>>
>> The table, data, indexes, constraints are set up exactly same
>> The query was running ok in the test database but paused the production
>> system.
>> It is also running ok in production if the primary key disabled.
>> Any ideas?   Any input will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>-- 
>Author: Tanel Poder
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Re: Re:Re: recreate constraints script - URGENT

[Tanel Poder]

There are probably such scripts in internet, or you can write your own in
few minutes, but if you need it only once, then one easy way would be just
to use TOAD (free/shareware ver) or similar tools to extract scripts of your
constraints from database.

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:09 PM


> Thanks Ron, I got this recreate constraints script from our list but
> lost it.It was really good script and it can re-generate all the
> constraints under a schema owner.
> --
> Original Message
> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:14:26 -0800
>
> >dba_constraint will inform you of the tables that have constraints and
> >what type of constraint they are.
> >Further digging into the dba_  tables will provide the information you
> >desire. Keep the scripts as part of the database documentation and
> >update when needed.
> >Third party software can provide the scripts for the entire database.
> >Ron
> >
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/30/2003 2:24:25 PM >>>
> >
> >Dear all, I have a script to generate constraints for a single
> >table
> >but I need a script to generate constraints for a schema owner .   Can
> >anyone send me  a copy?
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >
> >_
> >Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
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> >
> >-- 
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Re:RE: recreate constraints script - URGENT

[system manager]

Thanks Rajendra, Good idea but I have 1200  tables :(I got a good
script from our list long time ago but lost it.That script can capiture
constraints for the schema owner.
--
Original Message
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:39:26 -0800

>run the same script for every table for the schema owner and spool
everything to the same file 
>... there you have it.
>
>Raj
>---
-
>Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
>All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
>QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 2:24 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>Dear all, I have a script to generate constraints for a single table
>but I need a script to generate constraints for a schema owner .   Can
>anyone send me  a copy?
>
>Many thanks,
>
>_
>Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
>http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
>Looking for friendships,romance and more?
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Re:Re: recreate constraints script - URGENT

[system manager]

Thanks Ron, I got this recreate constraints script from our list but
lost it.It was really good script and it can re-generate all the
constraints under a schema owner.
--
Original Message
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:14:26 -0800

>dba_constraint will inform you of the tables that have constraints and
>what type of constraint they are.
>Further digging into the dba_  tables will provide the information you
>desire. Keep the scripts as part of the database documentation and
>update when needed.
>Third party software can provide the scripts for the entire database.
>Ron
>
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/30/2003 2:24:25 PM >>>
>
>Dear all, I have a script to generate constraints for a single
>table
>but I need a script to generate constraints for a schema owner .   Can
>anyone send me  a copy?
>
>Many thanks,
>
>_
>Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
>http://www.MyOwnEmail.com 
>Looking for friendships,romance and more?
>http://www.MyOwnFriends.com 
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net 
>-- 
>Author: system manager
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Re:Re: two oracle pl/sql programmers needed (50k/yr)

[system manager]

In Austin,   Texas
--
Original Message
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 06:14:30 -0800

>System Manager:
>
>Where are these positions located geographically?
>
>Me
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:44 AM
>
>
>> 
>> please send an email to me,if you're interested.
>> 
>> _
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Re:RE: Reorganizing tables

[Jared . Still]

I've been told that there is no such thing as an 'unbalanced' B*+ index.

The key values may be skewed due to being generated sequentially,
but that's a data problem, not an unbalanced index.

Rebuilding indexes can really kill performance at times since new 
index entries force lots of index block splits.

Jared





[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 03/24/2003 01:29 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
    Subject:Re:RE: Reorganizing tables


Dennis,

I don't reorg tables for performance reasons.  That strategy has been 
proved
faulty more than once.  Actually there is data out on the web that I've 
come
across that points in the opposite direction.  Rebuilding indexes many 
times
improves performance by making the index more effective.  A badly 
unbalanced
index is nobodies friend.  Now if your reorging for space management 
issues
that's a whole new ballgame.  Having multiple objects in a tablespace with
different sized extents does make filling the datafile messy to say the 
least,
therefore an occasional raking of the sandbox for this reason is 
reasonable. 
Just don't expect a performance gain.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/24/2003 12:53 PM

Thanks Jared, Rachel, Tom, Dick, Prakash, Ron

Excellent points. Very much appreciated. Unfortunately at this point 
people
are asking "but have you tested it?". So I need to construct some type of
test that will demonstrate how much effect a reorg will have. After I've
answered that question, then I can move on to some of the other issues 
that
you mention. I have joked that if the results are strongly positive, they
won't see me much after that because I'll be touring the world selling my
performance solution that never occurred to anyone else. 
   Our test system is cloned from an RMAN backup of production so the 
tables
should be close to production. I'm thinking of creating a new table and
copying the contents of a production table into it and then tracing
full-table scans and comparing the results. 
 
Jared - is there a way to estimate block-level fragmentation? Comparing 
the
average row length with the number of blocks used?

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: DENNIS WILLIAMS
Importance: High


Dennis,


Table reorgs can be useful when there is block level fragmentation, and 
you
do a lot of FTS.  eg. you have a table with 1000 blocks and all the data 
will actually
fit in 500 blocks.

It can also be useful for tables that change infrequently and are normally 

always
sorted on the same keys.  You can load them in sorted order, though at the 

moment I
can't seem to recall how to do that.

Probably other reasons as well.

That said, I almost never do it myself, as I don't seem to have any 
problems that
warrant it.

Our previous SAP BASIS admin was *real* big on reorgs, though she wanted
to do a whole tablespace at a time.  I talked her out of it, or at least, 
she sensed
that I wasn't very cooperative on that subject.  :)

Jared






DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 03/24/2003 09:38 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Reorganizing tables


We have a new manager, and at his last employer the DBAs reorganize Oracle
tables on a regular basis. I don't reorg tables on a regular basis. He is
lobbying us to investigate this and test whether it would or wouldn't
increase performance. We are on Oracle 8.1.6, Compaq Tru64, all tables are
LMT with uniform extents. This is an OLTP system, but the users continue 
to
add reports and the reports do quite a few full table scans. The reports 
are
probably the critical performance issue at this time.
   - Do you do regular table reorgs? What benefit does that give you?
   - Are there any indicators of when a table reorg would be beneficial?
   - What sort of test would verify whether a table reorg changed
performance?



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
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Re:RE: Reorganizing tables

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

I don't reorg tables for performance reasons.  That strategy has been proved
faulty more than once.  Actually there is data out on the web that I've come
across that points in the opposite direction.  Rebuilding indexes many times
improves performance by making the index more effective.  A badly unbalanced
index is nobodies friend.  Now if your reorging for space management issues
that's a whole new ballgame.  Having multiple objects in a tablespace with
different sized extents does make filling the datafile messy to say the least,
therefore an occasional raking of the sandbox for this reason is reasonable. 
Just don't expect a performance gain.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/24/2003 12:53 PM

Thanks Jared, Rachel, Tom, Dick, Prakash, Ron

Excellent points. Very much appreciated. Unfortunately at this point people
are asking "but have you tested it?". So I need to construct some type of
test that will demonstrate how much effect a reorg will have. After I've
answered that question, then I can move on to some of the other issues that
you mention. I have joked that if the results are strongly positive, they
won't see me much after that because I'll be touring the world selling my
performance solution that never occurred to anyone else. 
   Our test system is cloned from an RMAN backup of production so the tables
should be close to production. I'm thinking of creating a new table and
copying the contents of a production table into it and then tracing
full-table scans and comparing the results. 
 
Jared - is there a way to estimate block-level fragmentation? Comparing the
average row length with the number of blocks used?

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: DENNIS WILLIAMS
Importance: High


Dennis,


Table reorgs can be useful when there is block level fragmentation, and 
you
do a lot of FTS.  eg. you have a table with 1000 blocks and all the data 
will actually
fit in 500 blocks.

It can also be useful for tables that change infrequently and are normally 
always
sorted on the same keys.  You can load them in sorted order, though at the 
moment I
can't seem to recall how to do that.

Probably other reasons as well.

That said, I almost never do it myself, as I don't seem to have any 
problems that
warrant it.

Our previous SAP BASIS admin was *real* big on reorgs, though she wanted
to do a whole tablespace at a time.  I talked her out of it, or at least, 
she sensed
that I wasn't very cooperative on that subject.  :)

Jared






DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 03/24/2003 09:38 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Reorganizing tables


We have a new manager, and at his last employer the DBAs reorganize Oracle
tables on a regular basis. I don't reorg tables on a regular basis. He is
lobbying us to investigate this and test whether it would or wouldn't
increase performance. We are on Oracle 8.1.6, Compaq Tru64, all tables are
LMT with uniform extents. This is an OLTP system, but the users continue 
to
add reports and the reports do quite a few full table scans. The reports 
are
probably the critical performance issue at this time.
   - Do you do regular table reorgs? What benefit does that give you?
   - Are there any indicators of when a table reorg would be beneficial?
   - What sort of test would verify whether a table reorg changed
performance?



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re:RE: pl/sql engine doubt

[dgoulet]

" c) Procedural part can be parsed either by an application tool or oracle
   kernel. The thing to watch for is the version of the PL/SQL engine
   embedded in the application tool. The ideal situation is when these
   two versions are the same. If they are not, life can get interesting."

To put it MILDLY!!!

Dick Goulet



Reply Separator
Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/24/2003 7:08 AM

Let me throw some shade onto the issue:
a) PL/SQL engine does not execute SQL statements - ever. It passes them 
   over to the SQL Executor engine.
b) PL/SQL is just a procedural enclosure of the SQL language. There is 
   another one: it's called Java.
c) Procedural part can be parsed either by an application tool or oracle
   kernel. The thing to watch for is the version of the PL/SQL engine
   embedded in the application tool. The ideal situation is when these
   two versions are the same. If they are not, life can get interesting.

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 4:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi List,
I was going thru Oracle "PL/SQL User's Guide and
Reference".
http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle9i/doc_library/release2/appdev.920
/a96624/01_oview.htm#962

Paragraphs below (near the "Figure 1-4 PL/SQL Engine"
in the doc) confused me little.

para1 ---
"These two environments are independent. PL/SQL is
bundled with the Oracle server but might be
unavailable in some tools. In either environment, the
PL/SQL engine accepts as input any valid PL/SQL block
or subprogram. Figure 1-4 shows the PL/SQL engine
processing an anonymous block. The engine executes
procedural statements but sends SQL statements to the
SQL Statement Executor in the Oracle server."


para2--
"In the Oracle Database Server:
Application development tools that lack a local PL/SQL
engine must rely on Oracle to process PL/SQL blocks
and subprograms. When it contains the PL/SQL engine,
an Oracle server can process PL/SQL blocks and
subprograms as well as single SQL statements. The
Oracle server passes the blocks and subprograms to its
local PL/SQL engine."


Now my doubt is:
1.In para1 - Does pl/sql engine only processes 
the procedural statements and always passes SQL 
statements to SQL Statement Executor ?

2.In para2 sentence "When it contains ..." says 
Oracle pl/sql engine can process SQL statements.

Statements in both paragraphs seems ambiguous. 
Pls shade some light.

Thanks
Sam


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Re:RE: Bind variable use in C++ SQL Calls

[dgoulet]

Well now, It's said you learn something new every day.  Thanks Peter!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Schauss; Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/21/2003 1:49 PM

There is an easier way to handle character strings in PRO*C:

EXEC SQL BEGIN DECLARE SECTION;
char stime[12];
EXEC SQL VAR stime is STRING(12);
EXEC SQL END DECLARE SECTION;

Now you can handle stime as a standard C, null terminated character
string.

HTH,

Peter Schauss
Northrop Grumman Corporation



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Karen,

I'm far from a pro at C++ also, haven't found a good reason to use it
anyway
as anything you want to do in C++ is also just as easily (if not more so) in
plain old C.  I characterize C++ as a language for old Cobol programers who
are
sorry the verboseness of that language is dying.  Anyway, to make use of
bind
variables which can also be called host variables they need to make a few
small
changes to their code.  There's someone else out here who likes using the
OCI
approach to this, I prefer the PRO*C method.  I do believe their somewhat
the
same although the code you provided tells me their probably using ODBC and
not a
direct Oracle connection.  Now if you can convince them to go directly to
Oracle
and bypass ODBC that will buy them some additional performance as well.
Anyway
I digress.  To use the host/bind variable method (in Pro*C):
First you need to declare the host variables:

EXEC SQL BEGIN DECLARE SECTION;
   int ava_nodeid = 0;
 int ava_wkday = 0;
 VARCHAR ava_sdate[12];
 VARCHAR ava_stime[9];
 VARCHAR ava_serial[21];
 char *s = NULL;
EXEC SQL END DECLARE SECTION;

Now you need to initialize those variables:

ava_nodeid = cAvalObject->cItemSerial;
ava_wkday = m_weekday;
strcpy(ava_sdate.arr, ConvertDateToODBCStr (pDatabase, m_sdatetime))
ava_sdate.len = strlen(ava_sdate.arr);
strcpy(ava_stime.arr, m_schartime);
ava_stime.len = strlen(ava_stime.arr);


Now directly using those variables:

EXEC SQL DECLARE A1 CURSOR FOR 
 SELECT AVA_SERIAL 
   FROM AVAMAS
  WHERE  AVA_TABNAME = 'sys_node'
ANDAVA_NODEID  = :ava_nodeid 
ANDAVA_WKDAY   = :ava_wkday
ANDAVA_SDATE   = :ava_sdate
ANDAVA_STIME   = :ava_stime;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL OPEN A1;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
do
{  EXEC SQL FETCH A1 INTO :ava_serial;
   if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) break;
   else ava_serial.arr[ava_serial.len] = '\0';
   Whatever_you_have_in_mind();
}while(sqlca.sqlcode == 0);
EXEC SQL CLOSE A1;

Now if you positively can't appreciate the above, try this:

char *stmt = "SELECT AVA_SERIAL FROM avamas \
   WHERE  ava_tabname = 'sys_node' \
 ANDava_nodeid  = :1 \
 ANDava_wkday   = :2  \
 ANDava_sdate   = :3 \
 ANDava_stime   = :4 ";

s = stmt;
EXEC SQL PREPARE A1S FROM :s;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL DECLARE A1 CURSOR FOR A1S;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL OPEN A1 USING :ava_nodeid, :ava_wkday, :ava_sdate, :ava_stime;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
do
{  EXEC SQL FETCH A1 INTO :ava_serial;
   if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) break;
   else ava_serial.arr[ava_serial.len] = '\0';
   Whatever_you_have_in_mind();
}while(sqlca.sqlcode == 0);
EXEC SQL CLOSE A1;


Hope this helps!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Karen Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/21/2003 10:14 AM

All,

I've got an application that does not use bind variables.  The code is
written 
in Microsoft Visual C++.  I have no background with C++ and need some help
in 
telling the developers how to use bind variables in their code (they don't 
know and aren't sure how to find out).  I pulled the following examples out
of 
the code for different ways they execute SQL.  If anyone can assist with 
specific examples on how to rewrite this to use bind variables, it would be 
immensely helpful.

Thanks,
Karen Morton



Samples
---
Mystring.Format("SELECT AVA_SERIAL FROM avamas \
WHERE  ava_tabname = 'sys_node' \
ANDava_nodeid  =  %-d  \
ANDava_wkday   =  %-d  \
ANDava_sdate   =  %s \
ANDava_stime   = '%-s'",

cAvalObject->cItemSerial, m_weekday, ConvertDateToODBCStr (pDatabase, 
m_sdatetime), m_schartime);

rSpanRecord.Open (CRecordset::forwardOnly, cSpanSelect);

if (rSpanRecord.IsEOF () == 0)
{   rSpanRecord.GetFieldValue ("AVA_SERIAL", vCDBVariant);

m_serial = atol (ObjectConvert (&vCDBVariant));

vCDBVariant.Clear ();
}

rSpanRecord.Close ();

CSysNumSet SysnumSet(pDatabase);
SysnumSet.m_TableParam = strFile; 
SysnumSet.m_

Re:RE: RE: Value of OCP

[Rachel Carmichael]

No, although I've come close with Superglue/Krazy Glue (btw, to remove
that use any nail polish remover with acetone, works like a charm)

Jared forgive me, we are way off topic here but...

I had a scratching post for my cats that was falling apart.  And a hot
glue gun. I decided I could be Martha Stewart and fix it myself (maybe
that was Tim Taylor?). In any case, I really needed 3 hands... and a
large drop of the hot, melted glue fell on the back of my left hand...
instinctive reaction was to try to brush it off, which only spread it
further.

THEN I realized I was burning and ran cold water over it... when I
peeled off the glue I took the top few layers of skin with it -- second
degree burn about the size of a quarter. 

NOT smart. That was right before the last time I presented at NOUG come
to think of it, and just before a job interview. I did find out where
the 24 hour pharmacy is near my home. 

Rachel

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Rachel,
> 
> You didn't glue your fingers together, now did you??
> 
> Did that many years ago.  We were using super glue, the older
> slower drying
> stuff, to hold a gasket on the bottom of a radar beacon case.  Well
> using an
> open top bottle and flux brush to apply that stuff is messy at best. 
> Got just
> enough on my fingers that when I tried to put the bottle down, they
> stuck just a
> tad.  Dumped the whole bottle all over my left hand.  Took a medic a
> whole hour
> to scrape it off & another two weeks for the skin to heal.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Subject:RE: RE: Value of OCP
> Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/20/2003 11:18 AM
> 
> remind me to tell you about my glue-gun related accident.. never ever
> try to brush the hot glue off your hand!
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Personally I like the old glue gun - well okay, watch out for
> > electricity
> > surges whilst deploying the glue gun method.  However, really
> useful
> > for
> > most kid related things - wip up a costume in no time, fix that
> > plastic toy,
> > diaper to cheap to stick - the glue gun can make it a thing of the
> > past.
> > Naw, I don't take it that far boys.  
> >  
> > 
> > Oracle OCP DBA 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:54 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Red Green, my hero!!! 
> > http://www.ducttapeforever.com/forever.html
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:59 AM 
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> > 
> > 
> > Good old Duct Tape, the "handyman's secret weapon"!! 
> > 
> > Reply Separator 
> > Author: Stephen Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > Date:   3/20/2003 6:34 AM 
> > 
> > > -Original Message- 
> > > Did you learn anything from the previous crash to prevent it from
> 
> > > happening again? 
> > > 
> > 
> > Yes.  Duct tape the power cord to the floor. 
> > 
> 
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> >   
> > -- 
> > Author: Stephen Lee 
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __
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> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Rachel Carmichael
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 


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Re:RE: RE: Value of OCP

[dgoulet]

Rachel,

You didn't glue your fingers together, now did you??

Did that many years ago.  We were using super glue, the older slower drying
stuff, to hold a gasket on the bottom of a radar beacon case.  Well using an
open top bottle and flux brush to apply that stuff is messy at best.  Got just
enough on my fingers that when I tried to put the bottle down, they stuck just a
tad.  Dumped the whole bottle all over my left hand.  Took a medic a whole hour
to scrape it off & another two weeks for the skin to heal.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 11:18 AM

remind me to tell you about my glue-gun related accident.. never ever
try to brush the hot glue off your hand!


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Personally I like the old glue gun - well okay, watch out for
> electricity
> surges whilst deploying the glue gun method.  However, really useful
> for
> most kid related things - wip up a costume in no time, fix that
> plastic toy,
> diaper to cheap to stick - the glue gun can make it a thing of the
> past.
> Naw, I don't take it that far boys.  
>  
> 
> Oracle OCP DBA 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:54 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> 
> Red Green, my hero!!! 
> http://www.ducttapeforever.com/forever.html
>   
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:59 AM 
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> 
> 
> Good old Duct Tape, the "handyman's secret weapon"!! 
> 
> Reply Separator 
> Author: Stephen Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Date:   3/20/2003 6:34 AM 
> 
> > -Original Message- 
> > Did you learn anything from the previous crash to prevent it from 
> > happening again? 
> > 
> 
> Yes.  Duct tape the power cord to the floor. 
> 

> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>   
> -- 
> Author: Stephen Lee 
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 


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Re:RE: Value of OCP

[dgoulet]

I will admit to getting mine simply as part of an ego trip.  I figured that
after 15 years of being an developer/DBA with Oracle I should have one.  Has it
made a difference to my salary or employment potential?  Not one bit.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   3/20/2003 9:24 AM

I held out for 8 years as an Oracle DBA.  I had been sent to training and
interviewed Oracle DBA's and worked for Oracle as a DBA consultant w/o
having the certification.  It was based on my personal reputation,
experience, network and interview.  Those I believe still count more.
However, in this tight IT market and with Oracle not doing altogether well
in the RDBMS market it's all good.  Just get it on the cheap I say.  Also,
it may be the tie breaker for a new job.  I wouldn't expect reimbursement or
automatic job raise on this alone with the market in IT being what it was.  

Plus I got annoyed with this being used to justify the invalid argument of a
much less experienced, less talented person by a pointed-haired management
type.  

Oracle OCP DBA


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:36 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dang, I gotta get a copy of that report to my manager!  After going
through the 7.3, 8, 8i and 9i OCP AND the OCM, I don't think any of them
got me a pay increase!  ;)

Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
 


-Original Message-
WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Foote Partners surveys the value of certifications. They support that
over the past two years, the OCP pay premium increased by nearly 40%. In
the same period, the value of Microsoft MCP declined by nearly 60%.

A good article on the value of certifications.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,936853,00.asp
I don't see where they included the Foote data online. It is in the
eWeek magazine 3/17/03 edition, page 50.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: Value of OCP



I held out for 8 years as an Oracle DBA.  I had been sent
to training and interviewed Oracle DBA's and worked for Oracle as a DBA
consultant w/o having the certification.  It was based on my personal
reputation, experience, network and interview.  Those I believe still count
more.  However, in this tight IT market and with Oracle not doing
altogether well in the RDBMS market it's all good.  Just get it on the
cheap I say.  Also, it may be the tie breaker for a new job.  I
wouldn't expect reimbursement or automatic job raise on this alone with the
market in IT being what it was.  

Plus I got annoyed with this being used to justify the invalid
argument of a much less experienced, less talented person by a pointed-haired
management type.  

Oracle OCP DBA



-Original Message-
From: Pete Sharman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:36 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Value of OCP



Dang, I gotta get a copy of that report to my manager! 
After going
through the 7.3, 8, 8i and 9i OCP AND the OCM, I don't think
any of them
got me a pay increase!  ;)


Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than
that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
 



-Original Message-
WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Mult

Re:RE: Proc*C Errors

[dgoulet]

Oh Stephane, your such a woos.  I absolutely hate the OCI interface, talk about
a place to blow your head off!  99.9% of the time that the C compiler tosses
a fur ball is something you've done in C that is wrong, although I'll admit is
sometimes gets real hairy trying to find it.  If the Proc precompiler yaks the
fur ball your use of EXEC SQL is wrong and you can search the .lis file looking
for the error which start either with 'ORA-' or 'PCC-'.  Actually 60% of you
errors in C will get caught by the precompiler, such as missing semi-colons and
quote marks and commas.  Even unbalanced braces get caught before you get to C. 
BTW: since we don't have the OS your using, on M$ the GUI will display the exact
point where the precompiler is yacking in a pop-up when asked.

But if you MUST use the OCI interface, please do.  I have a bunch of folks
here who swear by it, that is until they have to upgrade to a newer version of
Oracle.  Then they swear at it since it will take them a couple of weeks to edit
out all of the no longer supported calls.  While at the same time I'm up and
running once again in a few hours.  I've got two "playtime" programs that I
originally wrote on Oracle 5.  The Pro*C one has not changed a single byte &
still runs very nicely on 9i after a precompile & compile.  The OCI one has
changed every time I've upgraded and this last upgrade took me a whole day to
find all of the dead calls.  UGLY!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Faroult" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 12:33 AM

>My oracle using version is 8.0.0.5.
>Now , I'm programming proc .
>When I precompile them  and fail. But I can't see
>what happened .and
>where the errors are.
>So I look carefully  for errors in large file.
>Is there some way to show where the error is .and
>what the error is .
>Can you give me your hand .
>Thanks in advance!
> 

Do you get the error when you PREcompile (ie when you run pcc) or during the
compile phase? I guess that a pcc error should be relatively explicit. It's a
bit more difficult when the compiler finds the error, because the .c file which
is in input of the compiler is pretty different from the .pc file you wrote. The
C compiler should tell you where the error is - in the .c file. Edit the .c
file, go to this line, if it's code you have written you should be able to
recognize it and correct it in the .pc file, if it's code inserted by Oracle it
probably means you have misused the precompiler. Scroll back till you find your
EXEC SQL statement (commented in the .c file), then try to fix the .pc.
 All this explains why I have switched to OCIs some years ago.

HTH,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
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Re:RE: Data Capture program

[dgoulet]

Santosh,

If that's what your after I'd suggest you get into WEB development mode. 
Using Access means using ODBC which means installing the Oracle client.  Take a
look at ColdFusion, or 9IAS or some Java based approach.  In any case your going
to need a WEB server and browser on the client side.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Santosh Varma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 7:43 PM

it is like this..
i want to create a data capture screen...and put the data in oracle
database..

how to proceed with that ?? any solutions...
it should not be like the client has to install some other software for
this.
using available resources itself, the client should be able to capture the
details..
it can be through ms access etc.

but the database is oracle 8.1.7

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:31 PM
To: Santosh Varma; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Santosh,

As one who has written a pile of these, you've left out a lot of
details.
The first question I would have is where is the data coming from and how is
it
being written.  If the data is flat ASCII text, and is from a batch process
SQL*Loader or an external table (9i V2) would be appropriate.  There are
also
third party tools available to do the job, Data Junction comes to mind.  The
only other option would be a custom process.  I've done all of the above.
SQL*Loader has some limitations that may not make it useful.  Data Junction
has
similar but not identical problems.  Custom created processes are the most
flexible but can take a while to create depending on what your trying to do.
And if the data isn't ASCII text your most likely into custom.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Santosh Varma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 3:53 AM


Hello list,

 I am in a project where the client wants a data capture program without
any validation in any fields..
the back-end is Oracle 8.1.7. what is the best way to give the user the data
capture program ?

please provide me any solution as soon as possible.

Thanks and regards,

Santosh














http://skins.hotbar.com/skins/mailskins/st/093002/093002us_sunset.jpg);
MARGIN: 3px 5px 90px 6px; COLOR: #22; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x;
FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff"
stationery_tag_mark hbtype="st" ?bgcolor="#ff" hmark="hotbar_element"
bmark="business_card">
Hello list,
 
 I am in a
project
where the client wants a data capture program without any validation in any
fields..
the back-end is Oracle 8.1.7. what is
the
best way to give the user the data capture program ?
 
please provide me any solution as soon
as
possible.
 
Thanks and
regards,
 
Santosh



http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=hotbar%5f
elem
ent%3bst%3b&SG=&RAND=52766"> 

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Re:RE: Value of OCP

[dgoulet]

Good old Duct Tape, the "handyman's secret weapon"!!

Reply Separator
Author: Stephen Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 6:34 AM

> -Original Message-
> Did you learn anything from the previous crash to prevent it from 
> happening again?
> 

Yes.  Duct tape the power cord to the floor.

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Re:RE: How to run sql*plus and its command in Windows as b

[dgoulet]

Thom,

If your going to go to all that trouble, why not simply create a .sql file &
call it on the command line.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 4:53 AM

Chuan,

What I do is the following:

set DBA_TEMP=\sometempdirectory
echo connect test/test  > %DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo alter sesion set sql_trace=true>>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo select count(*) from product_temp p, invoice_temp i>>
%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo where p.invpsid=i.invoiceid;   >>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo disconnect >>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo exit   >>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
$ORACLE_HOME/bin/sqlplus /nolog @%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql

del %DBA_TEMP%\run.sql


just be aware of special characters that will not be echo'ed properly in NT
scripting - thing like the | char will not work.  You will need to "escape"
these like this to get them to echo properly.

echo select col1^|^|col2 from sometable;

The advantage of this within NT bat files is that you can develop and use
substitution characters inside the sql files.  for example, if you wanted to
spool a file where the name contains information from outside the Oracle
session, you could do the following:

set ORACLE_SID=WTWD
echo spool %ORACLE_SID%_outfile.dat > run.sql

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:19 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi, All,

  In unix, we can put following commands in a file and run that file. For
example:

$ORACLE_HOME/bin/sqlplus /nolog << EOF
connect test/test
alter sesion set sql_trace=true
select count(*) from product_temp p, invoice_temp i
where p.invpsid=i.invoiceid;
disconnect
exit
EOF

What's the corresponding format on windows?

Your input is precious,

TIA

Chuan
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RE: Re:RE: Proc*C Errors

[Stephane Faroult]

>Oh Stephane, your such a woos.  I absolutely hate
>the OCI interface, talk about
>a place to blow your head off!  99.9% of the
>time that the C compiler tosses
>a fur ball is something you've done in C that is
>wrong, although I'll admit is
>sometimes gets real hairy trying to find it.  If
>the Proc precompiler yaks the
>fur ball your use of EXEC SQL is wrong and you can
>search the .lis file looking
>for the error which start either with 'ORA-' or
>'PCC-'.  Actually 60% of you
>errors in C will get caught by the precompiler,
>such as missing semi-colons and
>quote marks and commas.  Even unbalanced braces get
>caught before you get to C. 
>BTW: since we don't have the OS your using, on M$
>the GUI will display the exact
>point where the precompiler is yacking in a pop-up
>when asked.
>
>But if you MUST use the OCI interface, please
>do.  I have a bunch of folks
>here who swear by it, that is until they have to
>upgrade to a newer version of
>Oracle.  Then they swear at it since it will take
>them a couple of weeks to edit
>out all of the no longer supported calls.  While at
>the same time I'm up and
>running once again in a few hours.  I've got two
>"playtime" programs that I
>originally wrote on Oracle 5.  The Pro*C one has
>not changed a single byte &
>still runs very nicely on 9i after a precompile &
>compile.  The OCI one has
>changed every time I've upgraded and this last
>upgrade took me a whole day to
>find all of the dead calls.  UGLY!
>
>Dick Goulet
>

:-). I must admit that I loved the Oracle7 OCIs (fortunately still available in the 
libraries) much more than the so called 'Oracle8' ones ... Functions which only take 
void * (or sometimes void **) pointers are not exactly a pleasure to work with, and I 
have a special vivid remembrance of the direct load interface where the data type is 
coded on 2 bytes in one function and 4 in another (passed as void *, of course, to be 
certain that the compiler sees nothing ... kind of stealth technology ...). Took 2 
days to understand the core dump ...
That said, for the weird stuff I affectionate (wildly multithreaded fully dynamic 
things where I need to keep close control on memory) OCIs are hard to beat, once of 
course you have set-up your own, clean, building blocks.
  And concerning portability, my experience is a bit different. I have precisely 
initially switched to the OCIs (never practiced HLI, this still were my Pro*C days) 
out of frustration with the makefiles at some change of pcc release. Desupported 
functions survive longer than documented.

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
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Re:RE: HP-UX Installation questions for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/

[dgoulet]

Jeff,

Care to put your 2 cents in? 

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mandar A. Ghosalkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 1:24 PM

Dick,

you are right. i don't need Ansi C or Microfocus cobol if i am not using Pro*C
or Pro*Cobol.
the bundled C compile is sufficient for oracle installation.

but i am not sure about OnlineJFS and HpUX Disk Mirroring license

base vxfs is good enough, if extra features not required.
but maybe i need Disk mirroring for the internal disks for root and swap.
i would have two internal 18GB Hot Plug Ultra SCSI Low Pro Drive.
is this enough for the root/swap for hp 11i.
is mirroring required for the internal disks?
do we need extra license for that?
is glanceplus a necessity for passive standby database server?

any additional hp 11i software required?

any inputs?

thanks
Mandar

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:00 PM
> To: Mandar A. Ghosalkar; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re:HP-UX Installation questions for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/11i
> 
> 
> Mandar,
> 
> I'm going to include my HP-UX GURU on to the reply so 
> that he can comment
> about the JFS as he feels appriopriate.
> 
> As for trhe MicroFocus Cobol, NO you don't need it.  Ansi 
> C can become
> another matter.  If your going to use any exernal procedures 
> you will need it as
> well as certain options to the RDBMS, so in general I would say yes.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Subject:HP-UX Installation questions for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 
> 11/11i on 
> Author: "Mandar A. Ghosalkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/19/2003 12:24 PM
> 
> 
> Installation requirements for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/11i on RP7400
> 
> Do we need to install Ansi C developers module on HP-UX, if i 
> am not going to
> use Pro*C?
> Do we need to install Microfocus Cobol module on HP-UX, if i 
> am not going to use
> Pro*cobol?
> 
> Do u'll use "onlineJFS" (Veritas Filessystem) which allows 
> online Filesystem
> changes without unmounting?
> HP-UX comes with default "base JFS" which is a stripped down 
> version of veritas
> file system without online filesystem changes.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mandar
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Mandar A. Ghosalkar
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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> 
> 
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Re:RE: why SAN ? why not external storage ?

[dgoulet]

Humm, must of missed this one on the rebound.  Anyway, here Disk space is an
admin nightmare.  Each time we want to reassign disks from one server to another
here comes EMC to re-program the Symmetrix array otherwise the SA has the
possibility of assigning 2 servers to the same disk.  OOPS I really did not wnat
to do a newfs on that disk!!!?!??!  And at $4000 per disk (72GB) I would not say
that their cheap.  IDE drives have gotten real cheap, when will SCSI follow
suit??

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   3/14/2003 10:03 AM

Oh, Gods forbid the sysadmins would have to  do their job...

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210.581.6217


> -Original Message-
> From: Mogens Norgaard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 5:25 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> 
> There are many things I don't get in this life. One of them is the 
> statements about disk storage being an admin nightmare and way too 
> expensive. Aren't disks very cheap these days?!
> 
> Mogens
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >Rahul,
> >
> >This is personal opinion, but it looks to me like your concerned
> about the
> >database your creating for the client and may not have the total or
> corporate
> >wide view your client has.  We're heading down the SAN road not because
> of any
> >specific database requirements but because disk storage has become an
> >administrative nightmare as well as way too expensive.
> >
> >Dick Goulet
> >
> >Reply Separator
> >Author: "Arun Annamalai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date:   3/13/2003 12:24 PM
> >
> >Usaually SAN and NAS is used for several good reasons...the two main
> are...
> >1) High availability - When you have your database files on SAN/NAS then
> you can
> >bring ur database on another server when the primary goes down. Obviously
> you
> >have to use a cluster or Big IP (F5) on the front.
> >2) reduce redundancy -A unix userid with home directory attached to a
> paticular
> >NFS drive on NAS/SAN, will  able to see all his files when he logs into
> other
> >servers.
> >
> >so far I heard "Net App" is low cost including with Raid 5.
> >
> >-Arun.
> >Sr oracle dba
> >  - Original Message - 
> >  From: Rahul 
> >  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> >  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:38 PM
> >  Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> >
> >
> >  my reasons to recommend an external storage was..
> >  1) the database size is 36GB, and according to many documents i have
> read, SAN
> >is not cost effevtive unless populated 
> >  by a large numbers of drives !!, now for the client the cost is not the
> >factor.. given the situation.. wouldnt a SAN be an overkill ? 
> >
> >  2) NO DBA or SYS ADMIN skills to manage the SAN !! 
> >
> >- Original Message - 
> >From: Tim Gorman 
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:33 PM
> >Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> >
> >
> >Can you share some of the reasons related to your decision in
> choosing a
> >direct-attach storage (DAS) instead of a SAN?  In general, a SAN is a
> much
> >smarter choice than DAS.
> >  - Original Message - 
> >  From: Rahul 
> >  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> >  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:33 AM
> >  Subject: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> >
> >
> >  list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN, the current oracle
> databases
> >take around 
> >  36GB of storage i dnt understand there reason to go for SAN, i
> >sugguested to buy an external storage 
> >  box instead. How can i justify my desicion ? (cost of not the
> factor) 
> >
> >  TIA
> >  rahul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Usaually SAN and NAS is used for several
> good 
> >reasons...the two main are...
> >1) High availability - When you have your
> database 
> >files on SAN/NAS then you can bring ur database on another server when
> the 
> >primary goes down. Obviously you have to use a cluster or Big IP (F5) on
> the 
> >front.
> >2) reduce redundancy - face=Arial 
> >size=2>A unix userid with home directory attached to a
> paticular 
> >NFS drive on NAS/SAN, will  able to see all his files
> when 
> >he logs into other servers.
> > 
> >so far I heard "Net App" is low cost
> including with
> >
> >Raid 5.
> > 
> >-Arun.
> >Sr oracle dba
> > >style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
> BORDER-LEFT:
> >#00 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> >  - Original Message - 
> >   >  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
> black">From: 
> >   href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Rahul 
> >  
> >  To:  >  href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Multiple recipients of list
> ORACLE-L 
> >  
> >  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
> 9:3

Re:RE: Running multiple instances on a [large] server

[dgoulet]

We also run several instances on just about every server we have.  Most, but not
all share the same Oracle_home.  I only create new ones for newer versions of
Oracle, but for each database I prefer to use seperate mount points such as:

/test/system
/test/rbs
/test/temp
/prod1/system
/prod1/rbs
/prod1/temp
/prod2/system
etc...

Keeps one from stepping on one's own _.  (You fill in the blanks.)

The biggest problem I think you'll face is physical memory.  Have too little
with too big an SGA & you start swapping.  Have smaller SGA's and wait IO can
become a problem.  Simply put, you just can't have too much memory.

Typically we license a server for whatever it's being used for, so yes we do
have user and cpu licenses.  Kind of a pain keeping track.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Paquette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/11/2003 6:19 AM

Hi,

On one of the 7 development box (aix 4.3.3) we have 27 instances Oracle
8172.
All using the same oracle_home.
I can't say it's the fastest response time ;-)

As for the licensing we have a mix of CPU and user licences.


Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tél. (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 




-Original Message-
Chitale
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 3:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



One of the teams here is planning to run anything
from 8 to 16 database instances [no indication on
sizing yet, but gut-feel SGAs are 200MB to 1GB
and DB sizes 500MB to 40GB] on a "large" server,
something like a Sun E6800 or an equivalent
HP or Fujitsu server.

1.  How many of you do run, and are comfortable running,
multiple databases on the same server, whether it is
"partitioned" or not ?
2.  Do you create a seperate ORACLE_HOME for

each instance ?
3.  Do you just buy the Oracle DB CPU license on the
total number of CPUs on the server ?

My positioning is
a.  We might not be able to create 8 partitions but
partition such that we have  a max of 2 or 3 instances
in one partition.  Hopefully, I can dynamically change
CPU partitioning to reallocate CPU to another group
of instances.

b.  Each instance should have it's own ORACLE_HOME.
[Disk space is not a constraint].

c.  Just add up the number of CPUs on the server,
across all partitions, and buy a CPU license.  Also,
a CPU license is much preferable to Named-User as some
of these databases would host Portals for 1,000+ end-users.


Hemant K Chitale
http://hkchital.tripod.com
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Re:RE: Oracle position on hints

[Jared . Still]

Though I have yet to try out stored outlines, I believe that they
have legitimite uses.  Making your dev system work like 
production comes to mind.

As others have stated about hints, they have legitimite uses
as well.  They can be very handy to have when you need
to make a poorly written application behave a little better.

The use of ALL_ROWS and FIRST_ROWS are very
useful hints to have around, and they don't tell the CBO
how to do its job, they just tell it what your preference
is for returning data.

Jared





[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 03/07/2003 11:29 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:    Re:RE: Oracle position on hints


Stephane,

I'm going to agree with many on the list in that I don't believe 
Oracle will
drop the concept.  But on the other hand I don't like them either, not do 
I like
the idea of stored outlines either.  The reason is that with both your 
trying to
ham string the optimizer into doing things your way, which may be just 
fine
today but when you add a gazillion rows of data things change & that 
highly
selective index you were sure you wanted to use is now less than useless. 
I
don't think hints were introduced because Oracle's optimizer is immature, 
it
actually appears to be more matured than most other vendors, but that some
duhvelepors want things their way.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Paquette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/7/2003 10:19 AM

Hi,

I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our developpers.
Some are good but most of them can use help.

I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append, I used them only if I
really need to.

In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course, unless I miss something
there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser would be more mature 
maybe
hints would go away.

I just want to know what is Oracle direction with hints.

TIA

Stephane


-Original Message-
Robert - IL
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is facinating, where does this come from? This is the second time in 
a
week that I've heard this statement being made by someone. Hints will 
never
go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and more of them. I was 
told
by someone at a client site that they were told by an Oracle instructor 
that
they should not use hints in 9i

RF

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM

Hi,

Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming bettre or they are there
to stay ?

TIA



Stephane Paquette


Administrateur de bases de donnees

Database Administrator

Standard Life

www.standardlife.ca

Tél. (514) 925-7187

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re:RE: Oracle position on hints

[dgoulet]

Stephane,

I'm going to agree with many on the list in that I don't believe Oracle will
drop the concept.  But on the other hand I don't like them either, not do I like
the idea of stored outlines either.  The reason is that with both your trying to
ham string the optimizer into doing things your way, which may be just fine
today but when you add a gazillion rows of data things change & that highly
selective index you were sure you wanted to use is now less than useless.  I
don't think hints were introduced because Oracle's optimizer is immature, it
actually appears to be more matured than most other vendors, but that some
duhvelepors want things their way.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Paquette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/7/2003 10:19 AM

Hi,

I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our developpers.
Some are good but most of them can use help.

I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append, I used them only if I
really need to.

In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course, unless I miss something
there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser would be more mature maybe
hints would go away.

I just want to know what is Oracle direction with hints.

TIA

Stephane


-Original Message-
Robert - IL
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is facinating, where does this come from? This is the second time in a
week that I've heard this statement being made by someone. Hints will never
go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and more of them. I was told
by someone at a client site that they were told by an Oracle instructor that
they should not use hints in 9i

RF

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM

Hi,

Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming bettre or they are there
to stay ?

TIA



Stephane Paquette


Administrateur de bases de donnees

Database Administrator

Standard Life

www.standardlife.ca

Tél. (514) 925-7187

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re:RE: How Reliable is Explain Plan in 9.2

[dgoulet]

Ethan,

Seeing as your friend is running Precise & I have heard similar
pronouncements from them about the "accurracy" of explain plan for several
versions of Oracle I'm not suprised.  True, they make a very nice product, but
them again explain plan is something they do themselves.  Yup, sounds like a
sales droid got to him.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 9:59 AM

Ethan,

I am *shocked* we are running RAC 9202 ...
I haven't seen anomalies ... does your friend have any example?

Raj
-
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at espn dot com
Any views expressed here are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !!


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just had a fellow tell me that explain plan in completely unreliable in 9.2
and getting accurate results requires direct SGA access on executing SQL (he
is working in a RAC environment).  They are running Precise, a good product,
but this sounds like something a sales person told him.  I can only recall
that occasionally the plan executed is not the plan you see in explain plan.
Anyone know the truth of this issue?

- Ethan 






RE: How Reliable is Explain Plan in 9.2



Ethan,


I am *shocked* we are running RAC 9202 ...
I haven't seen anomalies ... does your friend have any
example?


Raj
-
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at espn dot com
Any views expressed here are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art
!!



-Original Message-
From: Post, Ethan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: How Reliable is Explain Plan in 9.2



Just had a fellow tell me that explain plan in completely
unreliable in 9.2
and getting accurate results requires direct SGA access on
executing SQL (he
is working in a RAC environment).  They are running
Precise, a good product,
but this sounds like something a sales person told him.  I
can only recall
that occasionally the plan executed is not the plan you see in
explain plan.
Anyone know the truth of this issue?


- Ethan 




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Re:RE: MS SQL hasn't given up!

[dgoulet]

John,

A few months ago (my how time flies) if I had seen your post the next stop
would be the armory for a fully fueled flame-thrower.  But times have changed &
I won't flame you, even though my opinions about MicroSoft remain.  Personally,
I think over the next 2 to 3 years we're in for another revolution in the
software world.  Open source software in the form of Linux, PostGreSql, MySql,
Gnome, Lindows, etc...  are going to make large inroads into what has been the
sole purview of companies like MicroSoft, Oracle, IBM, etc...  I don't think
it's too far off base for us to see a PeopleSoft, or SAP version somewhere down
the road that supports PostGreSql and/or MySql.

Now this is personal opinion alone, but I see MicroSoft as trying to pull
away from the pack onto it's own field with the .net infrastructure that their
building.  Sure MicroSoft products will work seamlessly with each other, but not
with other technologies (read that as primarily Java). So we're all going to be
left with one of two choices, use MicroSoft products, or everyone else's.  Which
leaves MicroSoft in a nice place.  You can't be charged with being a monopoly
when no one else wants to play on your field.  I don't know about the rest of
you but I'd prefer to keep my options open.  Didn't someone say that
"proprietary" solutions were dinosaurs??

And this from an Oracle zealot!!!  What next???  The end of the world??

Dick Goulet

BTW: Some of you may find the following rather interesting.  Although one
company did not want to list their license cost for the larger RFP'd project, I
calculate it at better then $4 million.  So Oracle is not the most platinum
plated of them all.


DATABASE STUDY SHOWS SQL SERVER SURPRISES | CRN
An in-depth investigation into the pricing schemes offered by each of
the major database vendors revealed several surprises, including an
upset by Microsoft. The study showed that SQL Server 2000 offered
better pricing, training and support than Oracle, IBM, Sybase and
Intersystems.
 
For the full details, click:
http://www.crn.com/sections/coverstory/coverstory.asp?ArticleID=40277
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Re:RE: MTS config

[dgoulet]

Thanks to all who replied.  It took filing an iTAR to get the answer and then it
took OTS 2 days to find the "fat finger" that caused the problems.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Adrian Roe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/25/2003 7:09 AM

Looks fine. We only have the following entries on a 9i database..

dispatchers = "(protocol = TCP)(dispatchers = 6)"

max_dispatchers = 12

shared_servers = 10

max_shared_servers = 40


Works fine, we ended up commenting out local_listener. How long have you
waited for the dispatchers to register ? It does not happen instantly. Have
you tried "lsnrctl reload" ?

-Original Message-
Sent: 25 February 2003 14:04
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


OK, Someone dope slap me!  I added the following to my init.ora file
(8.1.7.0 on
HP-UX 11.0).  The dispatchers start up just fine, but won't register with
the
listener (also 8.1.7.0).  I've already done the RTFM and MetaLink RTFM but
can't
see the problem.

mts_servers=5
mts_max_dispatchers=10
mts_max_servers=40
service_names=05
# mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=ipc)(DISPATCHERS=2)"
mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=TCP)(DISPATCHERS=4)"
local_listener="(address_list=(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=ipc)(KEY=05))
 (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(PORT=1521)(HOST=bart)))"

Thanks for the second set of eyes.  BTW, the end result would be to have all
outside TCP connections use MTS only.

Dick Goulet
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Re:RE: MS SQL hasn't given up!

[dgoulet]

Patrice,

As a Win2K and Linux user, Linux is cheaper on two fronts, 1) at $900 per
site for a Linux Advanced Server license vs. MS$ $1200 plus license (boy I hope
memory is working here) and 2) Yes you can use older, lighter hardware & get the
same or sometimes even better performance than MS.  One thing that sorta frosts
me about MicroSoft is that every time they release a new version of their os or
applications you end up having to acquire additional or new hardware.  Whoever
coined the phrase Bloatware must have been a MicroSoft employee.

Dick Goulet

Opinions expressed are personal.

Reply Separator
Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/28/2003 4:59 AM

www.opensource.org and other sites (The Register) and
www.globetechnology.com (Globe & Mail's technology news site) mentioned that
MS considers LINUX a threat.

Last week I attended an OS security class where each student had two PCs,
one was a Windows2000 machine, one was a LINUX machine.  The LINUX machine
came with Gnome, which doesn't look all that bad.  I would argue that the
LINUX GUI needs a bit of streamlining but you can see that it has
dramatically improved.

LINUX still has software compatibility problems, the courseware referred to
a LINUX configuration program that (for some unknown reason) wouldn't work
on our LINUX machines.

The LINUX machines seemed to have older hardware, I have the impression that
they were the ones the training center had "replaced and upgraded" to
Windows2000, but now had turned around and were using them for teaching OS
security on LINUX.  Speed was comparable.

The irony is that as LINUX becomes more streamlined, vendors start charging
for it... Will there be a meeting in the middle of open source OS and
Windows?  If Microsoft has to reduce its prices for  Windows, how will it
maintain its revenue growth?

Advanced LINUX is not free either, I don't know how its price compares with
the Windows2000 offering though.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:40 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


As long as I'm not replaced by an open source (cheap) DBA 


Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tel. (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 5:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I don't believe MS will ever give up.  Isn't that part of American
Capitalism?  Your competitor does you one better on some test, therefore
you've
got to better them.  Give Oracle a couple of weeks and we'll here that one
too.

But seriously, how many of us really care about the TP-C benchmark?
It's
great for marketing and the sales droids but how do I relate that to the
business needs of where I'm working?  Great, we can push the database to
400K+
transactions per second, wow.  Now if I could just get those 300 testers on
the
floor to take advantage of that when their tests are 5 minutes long!!
Somehow
the capabilities of the server/database combination has gotten SOO big that
it
can't be filled anymore or so the users think when they release the query
from
hell.

BTW: As I look down the road to the future, I wonder how much of the
commercial software industry is going to survive the wave of open source
stuff
coming down the pipe?  Here I am, today, sitting at a MS Win2K desktop with
Oracle running on the database server.  A couple of years down the road I
can
see a Linux, or some derivative of it, as the desktop and PostgreSql on the
database server.  Processing data will still have to happen and relational
data
will still be around, but will MS and Oracle??  Damn good question I'd have
to
say.

/* rant mode off, cool mode on */

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2003 11:26 AM

For your amusement, MS thinks they can "now" equal Oracle in performance
(wasn't that what they claimed 3 years ago?).
Anyway, I tend to think of these benchmarks like the NASCAR winners. Yeah
I'm going to go by a Chrysler because it won the NASCAR championship.

http://www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=5707




Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: Dealing with 3rd Party Applications

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

My heartburn with third party vendors is not that they don't have good
Oracle people on their helpdesk, but rather that they don't have good Oracle
people period.  One of our third party vendors, forever to remain nameless(so I
stay out of trouble), has an Oracle DBA who just happen to figure out how to get
the software installed period.  This fool (can't think of a more politically
correct adjective without killing the meaning) is the one who recommended
setting processes to 20,000 and restarting the database every 24 hours.  That
for a group of 15 people who use the application?  He also doesn't think it's
improper to put objects (tables, indexes, views, etc.) in the sys schema and
"one should never run in archivelog mode because hardware doesn't break any
longer, plus it places too much overhead on the database".  Come on, this guy is
a real nutcase!!  On top of all that, how many third party apps do you know of
that mandate that they exist in an instance by themselves and that they have to
have DBA authority?  Most if not all of them.  I've only run into a very small
handful of apps that absolutely do not want more than access to a tablespace and
the ability to create public synonyms.  These vendors sure enough had very
strong Oracle people on their development staffs.  We have one & I really
appreciate it.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/26/2003 3:44 PM

Dick - I would like to point out the reason the vendors don't have good
Oracle people working their help desk. You would be quite qualified -- would
you be willing to work the help desk? I'll bet not! Neither would I. So
those best qualified for a job won't take it . . . hmmm. 
   Then the other part is that the help desk represents one of the vendor's
biggest expenses. If it is not well managed, the company can easily go
broke. So they have to make sure everyone is overloaded and underpaid.
Development is a different situation because a top developer can build you a
better mousetrap that will put you ahead of your competitors. Better help
desk people are good, but then the word gets out and every novice calls them
directly with their RTFM questions. If I've offended someone on the list
that works a help desk, my apologies. We need you, especially the good ones
and often you go beyond the call of duty.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jeff,

Let's see, the sys admin installed all of it right?  Therefore it MUST
be
the sys admin's problem.  END OF CONVERSATION.

Now I'm sure the boss isn't going to like that very much, mine would
not. 
So we re-install the database MY way.  Most of the time the problems
disappear
easily.  Otherwise, have the users pay for a vendor consultant to come in &
tell
the sys admin that he messed up.

Right now we're having a problem with a third party help desk
application
that does a bad job cleaning up connections.  The vendor recommended setting
processes = 2 in the init.ora file & restart the instance every 24
hours. 
The help desk manager asked me what I thought of that, you can imagine the
response.  Anyway, we're now in MTS mode & the problem has been pushed back
to
the vendor with the "you want us to do WHAT Are you crazy??" response.
It's
a shame that vendors don't have Oracle trained people working for them!!

Dick Goulet

PS: If your using a telecom management software product from a company in
Manchester NH, USA, consider yourself LUCKY.  They have some real talented
Oracle certified DBA's with experience working for them.  They also don't
create
these types of problems.

Reply Separator
Author: "Eberhard; Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/26/2003 12:43 PM

Hi,

So my boss comes over this morning and tells me that the users are having a
performance problem with a 3rd party application that have recently began
using.  This is an oracle database where they bought the software and had
the system admin install the software which included the vendors instruction
of creating and setting up the database (basically use the defaults).  It is
an Oracle 8.1.7 database on Windows 2000.  He wants me to find out "if you
can create some indexes or something", etc. (he likes to give solutions
before the cause if discovered). 

Anyway,  I decide to take a look at it.  The performance they are
complaining about is when they log into the application it takes about a
minute for their initial screen (which includes a list of values) to appear.
I use the tool that someone posted here a while ago, SQL Monitor from
www.fastalgo.com, and find that during the time the user is waiting for the
first screen the application is executing a sql statement about 2200 times.

The SQL is:  SELECT PARENTID FROM PROC_  WHERE PR

Re:RE: MTS config

[dgoulet]

Let's see, how about overnight and yes I have reloaded the listener.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Adrian Roe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/25/2003 7:09 AM

Looks fine. We only have the following entries on a 9i database..

dispatchers = "(protocol = TCP)(dispatchers = 6)"

max_dispatchers = 12

shared_servers = 10

max_shared_servers = 40


Works fine, we ended up commenting out local_listener. How long have you
waited for the dispatchers to register ? It does not happen instantly. Have
you tried "lsnrctl reload" ?

-Original Message-
Sent: 25 February 2003 14:04
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


OK, Someone dope slap me!  I added the following to my init.ora file
(8.1.7.0 on
HP-UX 11.0).  The dispatchers start up just fine, but won't register with
the
listener (also 8.1.7.0).  I've already done the RTFM and MetaLink RTFM but
can't
see the problem.

mts_servers=5
mts_max_dispatchers=10
mts_max_servers=40
service_names=05
# mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=ipc)(DISPATCHERS=2)"
mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=TCP)(DISPATCHERS=4)"
local_listener="(address_list=(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=ipc)(KEY=05))
 (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(PORT=1521)(HOST=bart)))"

Thanks for the second set of eyes.  BTW, the end result would be to have all
outside TCP connections use MTS only.

Dick Goulet
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Re:RE: RE: Third Party Application Madness

[dgoulet]

Jerry,

Depends on the third party application/vendor.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Whittle Jerome Contr NCI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/24/2003 2:02 PM

Dick,

Is that aspirin first then the Jim Beam or Jim Beam first and aspirin the next
morning?

Jerry Whittle
ASIFICS DBA
NCI Information Systems Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
618-622-4145

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Jared,
> 
> Been there, done that, I'll put a large bottle of aspirin & Jim Beam in
the
> mail for you.  They help me!!
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 




RE: RE: Third Party Application Madness




Dick,


Is that aspirin
first then the Jim Beam or Jim Beam first and aspirin the next
morning?


Jerry Whittle

ASIFICS DBA

NCI Information Systems
Inc.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

618-622-4145


-Original
Message-

From:  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Jared,


    Been there,
done that, I'll put a large bottle of aspirin & Jim Beam in
the

mail for you.  They help
me!!


Dick Goulet




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Re:RE: Third Party Application Madness

[Jared Still]

Excellent advice!

I'll give it a 'shot' later today.

Jared

On Monday 24 February 2003 13:35, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jared,
>
> Been there, done that, I'll put a large bottle of aspirin & Jim Beam in
> the mail for you.  They help me!!
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Jesse; Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   2/24/2003 12:12 PM
>
> Congratulations!  We, the Annointed Members present you, Jared Still, with
> the Sadistic Vendor Setup Purple Heart award.  Wear it with pride.
>
> At least you *have* PKs and FKs...
>
>
> Rich
>
> Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:09 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> In need of cathartic release, I find myself sharing my
> pain with the folks that will understand it best.   :)
>
> The past two weeks have really been 'fun'.
>
> [snip]
>
> Now, on to the next crisis.
>
> Jared
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Re:RE: Third Party Application Madness

[dgoulet]

Jared,

Been there, done that, I'll put a large bottle of aspirin & Jim Beam in the
mail for you.  They help me!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Jesse; Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/24/2003 12:12 PM

Congratulations!  We, the Annointed Members present you, Jared Still, with
the Sadistic Vendor Setup Purple Heart award.  Wear it with pride.

At least you *have* PKs and FKs...


Rich

Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



In need of cathartic release, I find myself sharing my
pain with the folks that will understand it best.   :)

The past two weeks have really been 'fun'.

[snip]

Now, on to the next crisis.

Jared
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Re:RE: How long to hold onto old Oracle CDs?

[dgoulet]

I'd say hang on to them as long as you want.  I've still got a full set of 5.25
floppies for Oracle 4 at home as well as the docs.  Too bad I lost the DOS 6
disks.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/24/2003 12:04 PM

UFI Yet another guy who started with Oracle4?

> -Original Message-
> From: Robson, Peter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:35 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: How long to hold onto old Oracle CDs?
> 
> 
> 
> Talking of old Oracle stuff, just been cleaning out the 
> bookshelf. 'UFI',
> 'IAF', 'IAG', 'IAP', 'RPT' bring back any memories?
> 
> This lot is going OUT.
> 
> peter
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2003-02-24 at 10:33, Stephen Lee wrote:
> > 
> > You should keep them.  You never know when you will decide to get a
> shotgun
> > and be in need of some targets.
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > 
> > > Can anyone think of a reason to hold on to Oracle 7.3.3 HP/UX 
> > > CDs?
> > -- 
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Re:RE: Oracle License for Training

[dgoulet]

Steve,

I'd say IF.  Reason is that MySql has a commercial company behind it and it
appears that they see  looming in the near future.  Their licensing costs
have risen in the last 3 months.  Granted their a pile cheaper than Oracle
(correction, make that a mountain), but as always if there's a buck to be
made  Personally I prefer PostGreSql, which happens to be the direction our
WEB master wants to head off on.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Orr; Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/13/2003 9:08 AM

For me the question is not "If?" but "When?" 

Any prognostications?


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Mark my words, it will happen.

...The MySQL part, not the outsourcing part. :)


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- RMOUG Training Days 2003, Mar 5-6 Denver
- Hotsos Clinic 101, Mar 25-27 London


-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

If MySql continues as planned,  I think Oracle will
find it a force to be reckoned with, much as MS
has discovered to be true about Linux.

Of course by that time, according to the latest IT 
business intelligence as seen in Computer World,
most of our jobs will have been outsourced by then,
and it wont' matter much.

Jared





"Weiss, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 02/11/2003 03:04 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:RE: Oracle License for Training


A question for the DBA Gods on this list:

Is it worth the time/effort to download MySQL and learn it?  Is there 
going
to be a viable (meaning $$) market for the product in the future? Or 
should
I leave all the egg$ in the Oracle basket?

Musing for fun and profit.

Rick Weiss

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


MS SQL costing less than Oracle is only partly true.

If you load up MS with the extras that constitute a std
feature set on Oracle, Oracle is very competitive.

Been lots of comparisons on that.

Now PostgreSQL and MySQL, those *are* less expensize than 
MS SQL and Oracle.  :)

Jared
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






RE: Oracle License for Training



For me the question is not "If?" but "When?"



Any prognostications?



-Original Message-
From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Oracle License for Training



Mark my words, it will happen.


...The MySQL part, not the outsourcing part. :)



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://www.hotsos.com


Upcoming events:
- RMOUG Training Days 2003, Mar 5-6 Denver
- Hotsos Clinic 101, Mar 25-27 London



-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If MySql continues as planned,  I think Oracle will
find it a force to be reckoned with, much as MS
has discovered to be true about Linux.


Of course by that time, according to the latest IT 
business intelligence as seen in Computer World,
most of our jobs will have been outsourced by then,
and it wont' matter much.


Jared






"Weiss, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 02/11/2003 03:04 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L


 
   
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    cc: 
   
Subject:    RE: Oracle License for
Training



A question for the DBA Gods on this list:


Is it worth the time/effort to download MySQL and learn
it?  Is there 
going
to be a viable (meaning $$) market for the product in the
future? Or 
should
I leave all the egg$ in the Oracle basket?


Musing for fun and profit.


Rick Weiss


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



MS SQL costing less than Oracle is only partly true.


If you load up MS with the extras that constitute a std
feature set on Oracle, Oracle is very competitive.


Been lots of comparisons on that.


Now PostgreSQL and MySQL, those *are* less expensize than

MS SQL and Oracle.  :)


Jared
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Author: Weiss, Rick
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re:RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Richard,

In theory, yes it can.  Would I want to push a postgresql database that
hard, maybe not.  But I will agree with Lyndon, it is a very nice open source
db.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Richard Ji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 8:43 AM

Well no.  Since you are comparing Postgresql with Oracle, why
can't I compare it with HSql or any other database for that matter.
And is postgresql scalable compare to Oracle?  Can it handle my
Terabyte database?

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Quoting Stefan Jahnke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi Lyndon
> 
> hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database
> server. Not
> suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're
> looking for
> an SQL database to embed into your Java app.
> 

I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is
not scalable means I'd rather use Access.

-- 
Lyndon Tiu

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Re:RE: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Michael,

What version or Rman are you looking at?  I really did not appreciate Rman
before 8.1.7 and it's predecessor in version 7.  Rman for Oracle 9i is damn
nice.  Instead of those messy scripts and a recovery catalog you now have the
ability to store all that stuff in the control file.  Then a simple 

rman << EOF
backup database
EOF

is all that is needed in 9i.  Yes the syntax is a little more messy if you lose
your control file for recovery purposes, but at least rman can now rummage
through that backup and retrieve the control file.  We make limited use of rman
here right now, but will we ever increase that in the future.

Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 4:53 AM

Michael,
 
I use it.  I trust it.  Oracle support is there when needed.
 
When you say "While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and
predictable recovery scenarios, true 
recovery situations are never so neat and clean."
 
Just what do you mean?  Loss of individual tablespaces?  What?
 
To be fair, I would suggest that you create a test database, and use Rman to
perform backup and recovery operations on it.  Try and beat the product so
it doesn't work for you.  You'll be surprised.  
 
Once you see how it works, I think you'll realize that it has matured into a
good product.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 5:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



As a longtime Oracle DBA who has used many products, including RMAN, I find
myself
guilty of a paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when
Oracle has tried
several products, including integration with Legato and other
hardware/software backup vendors,
without a consistent direction.  In the little I've used RMAN, it seems
quite complex and kludgy.  
Even the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a
challenge to learn.

While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery
scenarios, true 
recovery situations are never so neat and clean.  This is not an
advertisement for any particular
product, but we've had great success in my shop with a product called
SQL*Backtrack from BMC.
I've also heard that Veritas makes a good product, but I've not used it.  

>From what I've seen of RMAN, at least so far, I feel far more confident with
the home-cooked scripts
I've been using for years.  

Any comments, or other interesting experiences?  

Perhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred backup software?












Michael,
 
I use 
it.  I trust it.  Oracle support is there when 
needed.
 
When 
you say "While I can get RMAN 
to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery scenarios, true 
recovery situations are never so neat and clean."
 
Just 
what do you mean?  Loss of individual 
tablespaces?  What?
 
To be 
fair, I would suggest that you create a test database, and use Rman to perform 
backup and recovery operations on it.  Try and beat the product so it 
doesn't work for you.  You'll be surprised.  
 
Once 
you see how it works, I think you'll realize that it has matured into a good 
product.
 
Hope 
this helps.
 
Tom 
Mercadante Oracle Certified 
Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Michael Fontana 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 5:04 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RMAN:

  I don't trust itAs a longtime Oracle DBA

  who has used many products, including RMAN, I find myselfguilty of a 
  paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when Oracle has 
  triedseveral products, including integration with Legato and other 
  hardware/software backup vendors,without a consistent direction.  In 
  the little I've used RMAN, it seems quite complex and kludgy.  Even 
  the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a 
  challenge to learn.While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic

  and predictable recovery scenarios, true recovery situations are never so 
  neat and clean.  This is not an advertisement for any 
  particularproduct, but we've had great success in my shop with a product 
  called SQL*Backtrack from BMC.I've also heard that Veritas makes a good 
  product, but I've not used it.  From what I've seen of RMAN, at 
  least so far, I feel far more confident with the home-cooked scriptsI've 
  been using for years.  Any comments, or other interesting 
  experiences?  Perhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred

  backup software?

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Re:Re: Oracle License for Training

[Markus Reger]

I would be pleased to be informed - privately or via the list - about further 
progress. 

Oracle is a fine thing - not judging just giving away my sympathy - and hopefully you 
can get more people on the Oracle path. 
 
Fence the w..dogs off - sorry, couldn't resist to temptation.

Apologies for any typing mistakes I failed to notice.


Markus Reger

Oracle Applications DBA
Webmaster
MBC

University for Music and Performing Art
Vienna
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/06/03 07:19 AM >>>
Interesting idea! =)
I'll look through the license agreement (OTN) again.
Then find a lawyer who's willing to be a partner...
And who knows...

Thanks a lot to Dennis W, Tim G, Dick G, Stephane F, jeremy P
and Markus R! Thanks to everyone!

I'm still open to any input/ideas/partnerships(?). Feel free to email me.
I'll let you guys know how this little venture goes.

=)

DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote:

> Markus - That is what I call a creative solution! I'm no lawyer either, but
> excellent!
>
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 40%OCP
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:34 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
> Did you ever consider that your (prospective) trainig candidates get the
> (for testing purposes freely downloadable) oracle software themselves and
> install it themselves (or assisted by you) on a good (linux - one might hope
> ;-)) box and then you assist them by getting along with this?
>
> I think this means, that you would not provide the software yourself - this
> is done by your traning candidates.
>
> As I am neither a jurist nor a lawyer, so I hope this is not pure nonsense -
> especially regarding the license agreement on technet.oracle.com.
>
> Apologies for any typing mistakes I failed to notice
>
> Markus Reger
>
> Oracle Applications DBA
> Webmaster
> MBC
> University for Music and Performing Art
> Vienna
> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/05/03 06:15 AM >>>
> A couple of friends and I are thinking of putting up a small training
> company here in the Phils.
> (When we say small...its really small with almost 0
> capitalization...just sheer guts and technical knowhow)
> We have looked at OTN and checked the licensing terms for the use of the
> software for training.
> We have stumbled on this provision:
> You may not:
> ·use the programs to provide third party training;
> I was wondering if any of you know if there is a different licensing for
> training institutions?
> How does a non-oracle partner acquire license to use Oracle DB software
> for training?
> I am looking at partnering with Oracle, but we are just starting and
> partnering costs $$.
> I dare not call Oracle Philippines just yet...If there is a need to
> purchase, and if we have the money, only then will we contact them.
>
> Thanks.
>
> =)
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Maria Aurora VT de la Vega
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
Maria Aurora VT de la Vega
Oracle DBA
Philippine Stock Exchange, Inc.

"If you don't risk anything, you risk even more."


-- 
Ple

Re:RE: Size of a Long Field

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

Vsize does not like longs!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/5/2003 11:29 AM

Ed - Look up the function VSIZE in the documentation.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:53 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



How do you determine the size, in bytes, of a long field?

 

Please. No tape measure jokes.

 

Ed

 

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Re:RE: How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??

[dgoulet]

Sony,

Don't you mean Database Configuration Assistant?  Not only does it create
the database, but configures the listener as required and the registry.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Sony kristanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/4/2003 7:08 PM

Hi Majid,

1)how can I create a new database frm SVRMGRL ?
Use DATABASE MIGRATION ASSISTANT, it is more easy to use.

2)can I have more than one database running in
oracle8i?
Yes you can.

Hope this helps.

Rgrds,

Sony

  

> -Original Message-
> From: majid [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:50 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??
> 
> 1)how can I create a new database frm SVRMGRL ?
>  
> 2)can I have more than one database running in
> oracle8i?
> 
> thanks
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > You can use DBCA(Database Config Assistant) to
> > create a new Oracle DB or 
> > issue the 
> > commands starting from Create database . from
> > SVRMGRL.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > majid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 02/04/03 08:43 AM
> > Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > 
> >  
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > cc: 
> > Subject:How to create a new oracle
> > database 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, I am new to oracle, I just installed oracle8i in
> > windows2000, durring the installation I called the
> > default database "test", I wrote a small java class
> > using the JDBC, everything is working fine, my
> > question please :
> > 
> > 1)can I create another database in oracle (leave the
> > database "test")so I will have two databases in
> > oracle
> > ?
> > 
> > 2)How can I create a database ?
> > 
> > Thanks, your help is appreciated.
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
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> > Author: majid
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
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Re:RE: How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??

[dgoulet]

Mladen,

Don't lead the person too far astray, he/she is still learning.  Give them a
chance to bugger up the server so badly that it requires a rebuild.  Then we can
jump all over them for not having made a backup!!  *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/4/2003 8:13 AM

You should do it from sqldba or you should use "ior init".
Don't use svrmgrl


> -Original Message-
> From: majid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??
> 
> 
> 1)how can I create a new database frm SVRMGRL ?
>  
> 2)can I have more than one database running in
> oracle8i?
> 
> thanks
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > You can use DBCA(Database Config Assistant) to
> > create a new Oracle DB or 
> > issue the 
> > commands starting from Create database . from
> > SVRMGRL.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > majid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 02/04/03 08:43 AM
> > Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > 
> >  
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > cc: 
> > Subject:How to create a new oracle
> > database 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, I am new to oracle, I just installed oracle8i in
> > windows2000, durring the installation I called the
> > default database "test", I wrote a small java class
> > using the JDBC, everything is working fine, my
> > question please :
> > 
> > 1)can I create another database in oracle (leave the
> > database "test")so I will have two databases in
> > oracle
> > ?
> > 
> > 2)How can I create a database ?
> > 
> > Thanks, your help is appreciated.
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> > now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: majid
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
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> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __
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Re:RE: The lightbulb goes on - WAS-Debate on rc commands Sol

[dgoulet]

Dave,

You, SYSTEM, and SYS should be the only people with the restricted session
system privilege.  If those third party applications have it, revoke it.  If
they have DBA which includes restricted session revoke that as well.  Then a
startup restrict and shutdown normal will run successfully.

BTW: If that third party software has a fit because you revoked DBA, find
another vendor.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Farnsworth; Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/31/2003 7:34 AM

Ok, so I changed my cold backup script lastnight so it does this;

connect internal/amianidiot
shutdown abort
startup restrict
shutdown normal
exit

It then does the abort and the startup and then the shutdown normal but then I
get this and my database hangs;

Shutting down instance (normal)
License high water mark = 10
Fri Jan 31 03:05:35 2003
SHUTDOWN: waiting for logins to complete.

So now I was totally ready to go postal, but then rational thinking prevailed so
I RTFMed.  I then come across this in the FM;

Typically, all users with the CREATE SESSION system privilege can connect to an
open database. Opening a database in restricted mode allows database access only
to users with both the CREATE SESSION and RESTRICTED SESSION system privilege;
only database administrators should have the RESTRICTED SESSION system privilege

So my question is, should all users be created with the system privilege of
CREATE SESSION and only I get the RESTRICTED SESSION in addition?  Am I reading
this correctly that for the STARTUP RESTRICT to work all users need to have the
CREATE SESSION privilege?  We have some third party replication software that is
trying to make a connection to Oracle every 5 seconds and I think this was the
culprit.  It DID NOT have the CREATE SESSION but it does now so I am curious as
to if the database will shutdown tonight.  Did I actually learn something??

Thanks,

Dave(iamanidiot)  :o)

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I'll echo that sentiment.

'shutdown abort', 'startup restrict' was a regular part of my
shutdown scripts beginning in 1994 with 7.0.16, as 
'shutdown immediate' wasn't all that reliable, even in situations
where it should have worked.

Jared

On Wednesday 29 January 2003 15:53, John Kanagaraj wrote:
> Rao,
>
> And where did you read that 'shutdown abort' is not recommended? This is
> another myth that has been busted a while ago. A shutdown abort followed by
> a startup restrict and a normal shutdown is the way to go when dealing with
> rogue sessions that open a connection and never shutdown. In such cases, a
> shutdown immediate will _never_ return (certainly not within your 5 to 10
> minutes). I have been using this method for more than 8 years now -
> starting at 7.0.16 fyi. The trick in this case is to script it into the rc
> commands.
>
> John Kanagaraj
> Oracle Applications DBA
> DBSoft Inc
> (W): 408-970-7002
>
> I don't know what the future holds for me, but I do know who holds my
> future!
>
> ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of
> my employer or clients **
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:49 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Paula,
>
> Shutdown abort is not recommended as the file checkpointing is not done
> during shutdown abort.  If you need to perform shutdown abort, then, it is
> preferred to bring up the db with startup restrict (so that the users
> wouldn't connect) and then, cleanly shutdown the db and bring it up again.
>
> Tell to your sys admins. that shutdown immediate would take some time
> (about 5 to 10 minutes) depending on the activity on your db.  They would
> have to wait for that much time before calling a DBA during system boots.
>
> Rao
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> System Administrator says he doesn't trust that the rc commands will stop
> if the database doesn't want to shutdown and even if it does would want to
> shutdown with scripts beforehand so that a DBA could connect and resolve
> the issue.  Other DBA says this is all wrong and rc commands should include
> shutdown immediate of database.  In the past I had setup 2 processes in the
> system scripts for the sys admin - shutdown immediate - wait  shutdown
> abort - on a read-only DSS system which of course allows some room for this
> type of activity.  I kind of would want to know if a database was going to
> be shutdown with an abort esp. in OLTP system and do it myself.
>
>
>
> - any ideas
-- 
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Re:RE: comparing null values

[dgoulet]

Sony and Gary,

Null is a "special" condition of data.  A data point cannot equal or not
equal null, therefore 'like' and 'not like' also does not work as neither is
true.  Therefore SQL recognizes 'null' and 'not null' for the purpose of
evaluating nulls.  Consider the null state as being the complete non existence
of the data point only. That being said, then a null neither exists nor does not
exist.  It's just NULL.

An instructor put the logic of Nulls this way:  In logic things are either
TRUE, FALSE, or NULL.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Sony kristanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/30/2003 6:22 PM

Hi Gary,

I wonder why you didn't use :
select * from tester2 where whatever is null;

Null values is extremely empty.

Rgrds,

Sony

> -Original Message-
> From: Gary Jackson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 12:42 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  comparing null values
> 
> Can anyone explain why it is that I seem unable to use 'like' and 'not
> like' 
> on columns containing null values. (I am unable to find information 
> regarding this on MetaLink.)
> 
> For example:
> 
> SQL> select * from tester2;
> 
> COL1 COL2 WHATEVER
>   
> 11STUFF
> 22STUFF
> 33
> 44
> 
> SQL> select * from tester2 where whatever not like '%STU%';
> no rows selected
> 
> 
> My question is why does this not return the 3 & 4 columns?
> 
> _
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Gary Jackson
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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Re:RE: Re[2]: Re[2]: Peoplesoft & Oracle

[dgoulet]

Henry,

Thanks. I'll remember that, IF we ever upgrade to PeopleSoft8.  Getting
migrated over from ManMan to PeropleSoft has been such a chore that there is a
move afoot to stay on 7.53 for a few years more.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Henry Poras" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/30/2003 5:43 AM

Dick,

PeopleSoft's methodology changes slightly in version 8. Instead of creating
an Oracle user for each PeopleSoft user, there is just a single Oracle user
created as the ConnectID (default username is 'people'). The people user
works just like all of the individual usernames created in earlier versions;
a quick connect and scan of a few PeopleTools tables to find out security,
owner of the database tables (i.e. sysadm) and it's encrypted password, ...

Henry


-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dave,

We turned it off way back prior to implementation.  Our biggest problem
with
the way PeopleSoft does database users is compounded by the fact that way
too
many of our users write their own scripts and/or use Access to create their
own
reports.  That means that they needed public synonyms to most of the
PeopleSoft
tables as well as select access on them and they really do use temp and
sometimes default tablespace space.

We actually did the password thing backwards.  The stored package stuff
has
a static password inside itself that even we the DBA's have forgotten.
After
the user is created then the PeopleSoft admin changes their password so that
we
all are in sync.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "david davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/29/2003 7:19 AM

Dick,

The grant users option has been around since release 2 (was on installation
table back then). I had not tested turning it off. Our practice is create
the userid then change the default tablespaces then notify clients of new
userid. It works for us, because the DBA's happen to be the security
administrators.

If you are creating the Oracle side of the user account, how are you doing
password synchronisation?

PeopleSoft 8 has password aging done within the application, but to use pure
database password aging prior to PeopleSoft 8 you can use Braintree's
SQLSecure product. The peopleSoft software has DLL/database integration with
the product if you have it installed. It also does cross database password
synchronisation.

I thought the lowest common denominator was DB2 guess its been lowered. The
do Windows development on SQLServer, but Unix is done on UDB. I wonder if
PeopleSoft will move away from SQLServer as a source development platform
now the Microsoft is trying to get into the CRM business. Direct
competition.

David Davis

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: "david davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,   Multiple recipients of list
>ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re[2]: Peoplesoft & Oracle
>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:44:23 -0500
>
>David & Lisa,
>
> 1st point is that were still on PeopleTools 7.53 so this may be
>somewhat
>dated.  Anyway, go to Peopletools, utilities, use Peopletools options.
>Uncheck
>the "Grant Access" option & low & behold, PeopleTools will not try to
>create a
>user via the "grant connect to " syntax that is so out dated as to be
>atrocious.
>  The down side is that you now have to create the user manually, but we
>did put
>together a trigger/dbms_job system that does it automatically as we wanted.
>  Now
>why in tarnation would one want to do that, Well as it turns out if you use
>that
>syntax, as Lisa noted, everyone is assigned SYSTEM as their default and
>temp
>tablespace.  Well that's not so bad since their there only for a very brief
>period of time before changing over to SYSADMIN or whatever else you happen
>to
>use.  The problem is that PeopleSoft in their VAST wisdom coded the first 2
>select statements with a "group by" in them, just incase there was a
>duplication
>of data in ps.psdbowner and/or psoprdefn.  Now I do not want to bad mouth
>them
>because that was not a bad idea.  The bad point is that you end up with
>temp
>segments in system and a fragmented system tablespace.  YUCK!!  OH for 9i
>and a
>system wide default temp tablespace!!
>
>OH, also one item of extreme note.  DON'T setup password aging for your
>users.
>PeopleTools doesn't appreciate it at all.
>
>BTW: I would not say that PeopleSoft does not know databases, they just
>minored
>in them instead.  The real problem is that they code to the least common
>denominator in the dbms market, namely SqlServer.  So be prepared for lots
>of
>fun, and do watch Customer Connection.  They every once in a while come out
>with
>a note or patch that is Oracle specific and really does help.  One would
>think
>that there'd be more of them since something like 75% of PeopleSoft's
>installs
>are on Oracle. Of course their development is on Sql Server.  Go figure!!
>
>D

Re:RE: Another simple question

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

Allow me to add another item to the pile from the OLD days.  Back in SQL*Net
V1 it was recommended to select a database name/SID that was "case insensitive".
 That restriction/recommendation was due to older DOS based clients that handled
all of that sort of data as upper case.  Therefore a database/SID name of 'Prod'
would translate on some DOS/MPE based systems to 'PROD' as it passed through the
OS/network layers.  The result was that you could not connect to the database.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/24/2003 7:39 AM

Banarasi - Worse than that, Oracle used to recommend that you use no more
than 4 characters (look at your process names, and imagine if your O.S. only
allowed 8 characters for the name). The problem is that some, mostly older,
computer systems have severe filesystem and process name limitations. I know
that it is hard for you young whipper-snappers  ;-) to believe, but back in
the olden days, a byte was expensive. Oracle built its empire by running
well on everybody's system. So this restriction allowed/allows Oracle to run
on some pretty archaic systems.
   Will it ever be changed? I wouldn't bet on it. Think about how many
separate parts of Oracle would have to be changed. And where is the ROI for
this change?
Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi All

Why name of the Database is restricted to 8 bytes. where as we can have long
names for tablespaces, tables, views, etc ? 

thanks
Banarasi Babu
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Re:RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes

[Jared . Still]

Oracle does not guarantee that the job will start at the time specified; 
it seems
that it usually starts about 1 minute later, at least that's what I see.

This would account for the creep, as when the interval is evaluated, it is 
later
than you might expect.

Jared






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 01/22/2003 11:39 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:    Re:RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes



Actually, Interval is evaluated at the beginning of the job according to
the docs.

I've not seen anyone mention the real cause behind DBMS_Job "creep".  That
is the setting of Job_Queue_Interval which, by default, is 60 seconds.  So
your jobs will run 1 minute later each time unless you set Interval to
evaluate to an absolute.  If someone's set Job_Queue_Interval longer, the
"creep" will be longer as well.

Jack C. Applewhite
Database Administrator
Austin Independent School District
Austin, Texas
512.414.9715 (wk)
512.935.5929 (pager)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  Sent by: To:   Multiple 
recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 
   cc:   
   Subject:  Re:RE: dbms_job - 
running jobs every 15 minutes 
  01/22/2003 10:34  
  AM  
  Please respond to  
  ORACLE-L  
  
  




One potential problem with DBMS_JOBS as is being discussed here is that
Oracle
computes the next_date at the end of the job.  They do that so that if a
job
runs longer than it's schedule interval the two invocations will not run
into
each other.  Now as discussed, if the job is scheduled to start at 9:00 AM
and
runbs for 5 minutes it's next_date for run #2 will be 9:20, not 9:15, and
it
will creep 5 minutes every time.

Dick Goulet
--
Author:
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]





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Re:RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes

[JApplewhite]

Actually, Interval is evaluated at the beginning of the job according to
the docs.

I've not seen anyone mention the real cause behind DBMS_Job "creep".  That
is the setting of Job_Queue_Interval which, by default, is 60 seconds.  So
your jobs will run 1 minute later each time unless you set Interval to
evaluate to an absolute.  If someone's set Job_Queue_Interval longer, the
"creep" will be longer as well.

Jack C. Applewhite
Database Administrator
Austin Independent School District
Austin, Texas
512.414.9715 (wk)
512.935.5929 (pager)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



   

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent by: To:   Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

   cc: 

   Subject:  Re:RE: dbms_job - running 
jobs every 15 minutes   
  01/22/2003 10:34 

  AM   

  Please respond to

  ORACLE-L 

   

   





One potential problem with DBMS_JOBS as is being discussed here is that
Oracle
computes the next_date at the end of the job.  They do that so that if a
job
runs longer than it's schedule interval the two invocations will not run
into
each other.  Now as discussed, if the job is scheduled to start at 9:00 AM
and
runbs for 5 minutes it's next_date for run #2 will be 9:20, not 9:15, and
it
will creep 5 minutes every time.

Dick Goulet
--
Author:
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]





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Re:RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes

[Jared . Still]

> Now as discussed, if the job is scheduled to start at 9:00 AM and
> runbs for 5 minutes it's next_date for run #2 will be 9:20, not 9:15, 
and it
> will creep 5 minutes every time.

No, as written, my jobs start on every quarter hour, regardless of 
runtime.

e.g. 09:00, 09:15, 09:30, 09:45 ...

Jared







[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 01/22/2003 08:34 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Re:RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes


One potential problem with DBMS_JOBS as is being discussed here is that 
Oracle
computes the next_date at the end of the job.  They do that so that if a 
job
runs longer than it's schedule interval the two invocations will not run 
into
each other.  Now as discussed, if the job is scheduled to start at 9:00 AM 
and
runbs for 5 minutes it's next_date for run #2 will be 9:20, not 9:15, and 
it
will creep 5 minutes every time.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Freeman Robert - IL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/22/2003 7:09 AM

Cron? How 1980's :-))
 
RF
 

Robert G. Freeman
Technical Management Consultant
TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com
904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)
Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:19 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I simplified it by using cron instead ...  

Raj 
__ 
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc. 
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com 
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN 
Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! 


-Original Message- 
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:24 PM 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 


Feeling particularly anal the other day,  I used the following 
specification to 
run statspack at the top of the hour, 15, 30 and 45 minutes after the 
hour. 

variable jobno number; 
variable instno number; 
begin 
select instance_number into :instno from v$instance; 
dbms_job.submit( 
:jobno 
, 'statspack.snap;' 
-- every 15 minutes at 00,15,30 and 45 
, trunc(sysdate,'hh24') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * 
floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,'mi')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 )) 
, 'trunc(sysdate,''hh24'') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * 
floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,''mi'')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 ))' 
); 
commit; 
end; 
/ 

Seems to me that the time specs could be simplified a bit. 
Anyone care to give it a go?  :) 
Jared 





RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes



Cron? 
How 1980's :-))
 
RF
 
Robert G. FreemanTechnical 
Management

ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell 
(it's 
everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on 
Amazon.com! 

  -Original Message-From: Jamadagni, Rajendra 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 
22, 
  2003 7:19 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 
  minutes
  I simplified it by using cron instead ... 
<g> 

  Raj __ 
Rajendra Jamadagni  
      MIS, ESPN Inc. 
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any 
  opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. 

  QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an 
opinion 
  is an art! 
  -Original Message- From: 

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:24 PM 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes 
  Feeling particularly anal the other day,  I used 
the 
  following specification to run

  statspack at the top of the hour, 15, 30 and 45 minutes after the 
  hour. 
  variable jobno number; variable 
instno

  number; begin     select instance_number 
into 
  :instno from v$instance;     
dbms_job.submit( 
  
;    
  :jobno 
;    
  , 'statspack.snap;' 
;    
  -- every 15 minutes at 00,15,30 and 45 
;    
  , trunc(sysdate,'hh24') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,'mi')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 
)) 
  
;    
  , 'trunc(sysdate,''hh24'') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,''mi'')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 
))'

      ); 
      
commit; 
  end; / 
  Seems to me that the time specs could be simplified a 
  bit. Anyone care to give it a go?  
:) 
  Jar

Re:RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes

[dgoulet]

One potential problem with DBMS_JOBS as is being discussed here is that Oracle
computes the next_date at the end of the job.  They do that so that if a job
runs longer than it's schedule interval the two invocations will not run into
each other.  Now as discussed, if the job is scheduled to start at 9:00 AM and
runbs for 5 minutes it's next_date for run #2 will be 9:20, not 9:15, and it
will creep 5 minutes every time.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Freeman Robert - IL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/22/2003 7:09 AM

Cron? How 1980's :-))
 
RF
 

Robert G. Freeman
Technical Management Consultant
TUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com
904.708.5076 Cell (it's everywhere that I am!)
Author of several books you can find on Amazon.com! 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:19 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I simplified it by using cron instead ...  

Raj 
__ 
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc. 
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com 
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! 


-Original Message- 
 ] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:24 PM 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 


Feeling particularly anal the other day,  I used the following 
specification to 
run statspack at the top of the hour, 15, 30 and 45 minutes after the 
hour. 

variable jobno number; 
variable instno number; 
begin 
select instance_number into :instno from v$instance; 
dbms_job.submit( 
:jobno 
, 'statspack.snap;' 
-- every 15 minutes at 00,15,30 and 45 
, trunc(sysdate,'hh24') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * 
floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,'mi')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 )) 
, 'trunc(sysdate,''hh24'') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * 
floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,''mi'')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 ))' 
); 
commit; 
end; 
/ 

Seems to me that the time specs could be simplified a bit. 
Anyone care to give it a go?  :) 
Jared 





RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes



Cron? 
How 1980's :-))
 
RF
 
Robert G. FreemanTechnical Management

ConsultantTUSC - The Oracle Experts www.tusc.com904.708.5076 Cell (it's 
everywhere that I am!)Author of several books you can find on 
Amazon.com! 

  -Original Message-From: Jamadagni, Rajendra 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 
  2003 7:19 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 
  minutes
  I simplified it by using cron instead ...  

  Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni  
      MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any 
  opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. 
  QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion 
  is an art! 
  -Original Message- From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 7:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: dbms_job - running jobs every 15 minutes 
  Feeling particularly anal the other day,  I used the 
  following specification to run

  statspack at the top of the hour, 15, 30 and 45 minutes after the 
  hour. 
  variable jobno number; variable instno

  number; begin     select instance_number into 
  :instno from v$instance;     dbms_job.submit( 
  
;    
  :jobno 
;    
  , 'statspack.snap;' 
;    
  -- every 15 minutes at 00,15,30 and 45 
;    
  , trunc(sysdate,'hh24') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,'mi')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 )) 
  
;    
  , 'trunc(sysdate,''hh24'') +  ( ( 15 + ( 15 * floor(to_number(to_char(sysdate,''mi'')) / 15))) / ( 24 * 60 ))'

      ); 
      commit; 
  end; / 
  Seems to me that the time specs could be simplified a 
  bit. Anyone care to give it a go?  :) 
  Jared 

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Re:RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover dat

[dgoulet]

Tom,

I'm going to agree with both of you, but with reservations.  When you have a
standby database during normal day to day operations, what value added does it
provide to your business?  Assuming all is well, nothing it's just overhead. 
Yes Oracle did do a pile of research and development to offer the capability and
therefore yes they are due compensation for that, in relation to the amount of
added value you extract from that standby.  If your like many a shop where you
keep the standby for the day when all hell breaks loose on the primary then the
license fee I believe should be prorated to the possibility of that happening. 
If on the other hand you use it as a read-only reporting database all bets are
off.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/16/2003 5:14 AM

Jared,

why doesn't it seem right?

in the case where we are running a standby database, are we not using the
software?  sure, the users are not directly connected.  but every
transaction that they enter in the primary database is being posted to the
standby.  if we were not required to pay for this standy-by database, how
would Oracle get paid for all the development time they put in to offer such
a service?
seems reasonable to me.

as for the failover requirment (10 day limit), Oracle is wrong in this one -
the database is always running on one server only.  and they (Oracle) have
done nothing to offer a better service that has not been already paid for.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Thanks Tony.

Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down
economy by any means necessary.

You're right, this doesn't seem right.

Jared

On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi All
>
> For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database,
> the following information is very important to you.  You could be in
> breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s
> if not millions $$
>
> (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details)
>
...
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Re:RE: Big Brother is Here

[dgoulet]

Not to be cruel to those with AIDS, but does this mean it gets a new definition:
Airborne Internet Directory Service??

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Deshpande; Kirti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/10/2003 11:25 AM

So we can now listen to those viruses?  ;) 

- Kirti

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 12:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


OK, this is a little off topic, but if MicroSlop gets this to work, how long
before OEM will have a link into the same technology??  I always thought that
the computers were here to server us, not the other way around.  Just what I
need, an OEM job blowing and my having to fix it from the head!!

Dick Goulet

Microsoft eyes global radio network to support smart devices

Microsoft plans to build a global FM radio network to support its Smart Personal
 Objects Technology efforts, embedding an FM receiver that works anywhere in the
 world.

http://computerworld.com/newsletter/0%2C4902%2C77442%2C0.html?nlid=AM
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Re:RE: test this email ad

[dgoulet]

The first time I read this it did not make sense, but now the light bulb has
finally come on.  I'll just add these folks to the s&%$list.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Tim,
I think you are wasting your time. A threat from Dick is meaningless...cause
they appear not to know Dick!
I checked their website. Instead of 'Contact Us' it says 'Contacts Us' on
each page...And I'm going to trust them to monitor my database? 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Um...  This looks like a sales critter post...  So, let's test it...  Tell me
Paul...  Exactly why is this tool so wonderful???  And, a simple cut and paste
of marketing material won't do...  What exactly does it do for you that is so
wonderful???  How does it free up your time???  FYI, if you are a sales critter,
you shouldn't post this kind of stuff unless you have some idea of what you're
are talking about...  We do have a couple sales critters around but they
maintain a fairly low profile and actually contribute to the list...  And
whatever you do don't get get on Dick's bad side...  Right Dick?
 
:-)
 
Tim

 









Here 
is a quote from my Damager when I send him the link to this marvelous 
product:
 
" 
Where do I signup. At a buck and three quarters 
an hour I'll replace all of you slackards." 

 
And 
told him he will probably get what he paid for :) 
 
- 
Kirti
 
-Original Message-From: Fink, Dan 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:30 
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
test this email ad
Tim,
    I think you are wasting your time. A

threat from Dick is meaningless...cause they appear not to know 
Dick!
    I checked their website. Instead of 
'Contact Us' it says 'Contacts Us' on each page...And I'm going to trust them to

monitor my database? 

  -Original Message-From: Johnston, Tim 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 
  2:59 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: test this email ad
  Um...  This looks like a sales critter post...  So, let's 
  test it...  Tell me Paul...  Exactly why is this tool so 
  wonderful???  And, a simple cut and paste of marketing material won't 
  do...  What exactly does it do for you that is so 
  wonderful???  How does it free up your time???  FYI, if 
  you are a sales critter, you shouldn't post this kind of stuff unless you have

  some idea of what you're are talking about...  We do have a couple 
  sales critters around but they maintain a fairly low profile and actually 
  contribute to the list...  And whatever you do don't get get on Dick's 
  bad side...  Right Dick?
   
  :-)
   
  Tim
  
 

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Re:RE: Centralized StatsPack Repository

[dgoulet]

I also was informed during the iTAR process that they will support a centralized
repository, but you'll have to wait till 10i for it.  Heck I've haven't gotten a
play instance of 9i up yet.  10i, maybe by 2010!!!  I really don't want to wait
that long!!

Dick Goulet
Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/2/2003 12:51 PM

Steve,
 
I am leaning more towards Oracle Streams ...
 
Raj
__

Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com

Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.


QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



An Oracle emp told me they plan to support a centralized statspack
repository but it's not supported yet. In the stats$snapshot table the
snap_id, dbid, and instance_number columns should be unique. The trick is
automagically populating the mother of all statspack repositories with a
maintenance-free routine. Replication? I've modified some of the statspack
tables and it still works. You'll need to study the ddl for the statspack
objects of course.

So if you have a repository of 1/2 dozen databases is it a statspack
sixpack? 



SQL>desc stats$snapshot 
 Name  Null?Type 
 - 
 
 SNAP_ID   NOT NULL NUMBER(6) 
 DBID  NOT NULL NUMBER 
 INSTANCE_NUMBER   NOT NULL NUMBER 
 SNAP_TIME NOT NULL DATE 
 STARTUP_TIME  NOT NULL DATE 
 SESSION_IDNOT NULL NUMBER 
 SERIAL#NUMBER 
 SNAP_LEVEL NUMBER 
 UCOMMENT   VARCHAR2(160) 
 EXECUTIONS_TH  NUMBER 
 PARSE_CALLS_TH NUMBER 
 DISK_READS_TH  NUMBER 
 BUFFER_GETS_TH NUMBER 
 SHARABLE_MEM_THNUMBER 
 VERSION_COUNT_TH   NUMBER 
 ALL_INIT   VARCHAR2(5) 


Steve Orr 
Bozeman, MT 



-Original Message- 
 ] 
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 11:34 AM 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 


I am currently working on a design ... basically it is simple to set-up, but
the problem I am facing is how to automatically move dataset for one
snapshot from prod db to the central db.

Raj 
__ 
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc. 
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com 
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! 


-Original Message- 

Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:14 PM 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 


To ALL, 
We'd like to establish a centralized stats pack repository, but OTS is 
telling us that it's NOT doable for a couple of reasons.  As you can guess I

don't believe them and am looking around to see if anyone else has done this

before I break out the power tools and start building something on my own. 
Dick Goulet 
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RE: Centralized StatsPack Repository



Steve,
 
I am leaning more towards Oracle Streams ...
 
Raj
__
Rajendra 
Jamadagni  
    MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot

com
Any opinion expressed here is 
personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but

having an opinion is an art!

  -Original Message-From: Orr, Steve 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 3:41 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: 
  Centralized StatsPack Repository
  An Oracle emp told me they plan to support a centralized 
 

Re:RE: functions/procedures and commits

[dgoulet]

Tom,

Correction, all DDL statements do an implicit commit.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/2/2003 7:09 AM

John,

there is no such thing as an implicit commit within Oracle.

the only implicit commit that I know of is during a sqlplus session when you
exit the program.  even this is "settable" by a sqlplus option.

distributed transactions that are controlled by a transaction coordinator
(like MS DTC) might issue commits only because the web application requires
all updates to be handled by the app-server.  but this is different from
what you are asking, I think.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



> Under what circumstances is a COMMIT done implicitly?
> 
> If I call a function or procedure that performs an insert, but does not do
> a commit, will a commit be implicitly performed when the function ends?
> 
> i.e. is ...
> 
> begin
>
>  INSERT INTO
>  ... etc.
> 
> end;
> 
> the same as 
> 
> begin
> 
> insert_the_record;
> 
> end;
> 
> where insert_the_record  is a procedure that does the insert, but nothing
> else.
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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Jonathan Lewis]

I think I'll resist the temptation to review
the entire trace file.  However, since this
is a v9 deadlock dump, I think you should
find that you have a complete processstate
dump after the initial deadlock graph.

Somewhere near the end of the dump you
should find the CURSOR section, which
should list all the current cursors for the
session.  Read through these, they may
give you a clue about the SQL that has
pushed the TM lock from a 3 to a 5 on
the problem table.


Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 27 December 2002 00:15


>Yes it is 9013. This is not an array based update. As per the trace
file
>same statement is being executed by both sessions. I can directly
send you
>the trace file if there is a need.
>
>There are triggers on the tables, I'll look into parent table
activity. But
>there are indexes on all foreign keys except one which corresponds to
a
>static master table containing PO TYPES. That table is not being
updated.
>
>How can I dig deeper into this issue.
>
>Thanks
>Shaleen


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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Shaleen]

Yes it is 9013. This is not an array based update. As per the trace file
same statement is being executed by both sessions. I can directly send you
the trace file if there is a need.

There are triggers on the tables, I'll look into parent table activity. But
there are indexes on all foreign keys except one which corresponds to a
static master table containing PO TYPES. That table is not being updated.

How can I dig deeper into this issue.

Thanks
Shaleen
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 1:58 AM


>
> This looks like a v9 trace file, which means
> there may be new issues involved that I
> haven't come across yet. For example, 9.2
> introduces a mode 2 TM lock on pk/fk activity
> for some reason that I haven't worked out,
> so this may be a side-effect.
>
> However, (assuming no big changes from v8)
> this is TM lock in mode 5 (SSX) colliding with
> a mode 3 (SX), so it is most likely a pk/fk issue -
> despite your comment to the contrary.
>
> If it were a "purely data" problem I would expect
> to see a mode 6 TX lock, if it were any of the
> "internal structure" issues I would expect to
> see a mode 4 TX lock.
>
> The 'Rows waited on:' line could be down to
> v9 recording the block address of the most
> recent buffer busy wait, write wait, etc. which
> is a very recent enhancement - but since the
> values are not cleared when the wait ends,
> this can cause confusion.
>
> Is this an array-based update ?  And is the
> SQL from this session (the one that dumped
> the graph) the same as the SQL that has been
> dumped for the other session ?
>
>
> Most critically - do you have any triggers on
> the child table that may be doing parent
> table activity that you've overlooked ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan Lewis
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
>
> Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
> Cost Based Optimisation
> (see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )
>
> Next Seminar dates:
> (see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )
>
> England__January 21/23
>
>
> The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 24 December 2002 23:49
>
>
> >Jonathan,
> >
> >What do you make out of following deadlock graph. This is happenning
> when 2
> >instance of same batch process are running. We are absolutely certain
> that
> >these batch processes are not working on same set of records
> (although
> >records can be in same block). object f9d5 is wcu_po_line table. I am
> unable
> >to understand why the update statements are requesting SSX lock on
> the
> >table. This is not a case of primary/forign key issue with a missing
> index
> >in child table where primary key is change in master table because
> master
> >table is not being updated.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Shaleen
> >
> >Deadlock graph:
> >   -Blocker(s)  -Waiter(s
> )--
> >---
> >Resource Name  process session holds waits  process session
> holds
> >waits
> >TM-f9d5-   390 503SX   SSX  290 597
> SX
> >SSX
> >TM-f9d5-   290 597SX   SSX  390 503
> SX
> >SSX
> >session 503: DID 0001-0186-0002 session 597: DID
> 0001-0122-0002
> >session 597: DID 0001-0122-0002 session 503: DID
> 0001-0186-0002
> >Rows waited on:
> >Session 597: obj - rowid = 98A5 - AAADFAAAGCsAAA
> >  (dictionary objn - 39077, file - 197, block - 24748, slot - 0)
> >Session 503: no row
> >SQL statements executed by the waiting sessions:
> >Session 597:
> >UPDATE wcu_po_line
> >   SET po_no = :b21,
> >   po_line = :b20,
> >   item_price = :b19,
> >   po_qty = :b18,
> >   invoice_shipped_qty = 0,  --invoice_shipped_qty
> >   distributor_item_no = :b17,
> >   current_status = :b16,
> >   created_dtm = SYSDATE,
> >   status_change_dtm = SYSDATE,
> >   --created_dtm
> >   return_id = NULL, --return_id_in,
> >   return_line_no = NULL, --return_line_no_in,
> >   min_qty = :b15,
> >   wrap_code = :b14,
> >   invoice_id = :b13,
> >   gift_wrap_UPC = :b12,
> >   gift_wrap_price = :b11,
> >   wrap_to_label = :b10,
> >   wrap_from_label = :b9,
> >   item_cost = nvl(:b7,:b6),
> >   xml_po_line = :b8,
> >   wmc_item_cost = nvl(:b7,:b6),
> >   distributor_id = :b5,
> >   po_type = :b4
> > WHERE po_no = :b3
> >   AND co_order_no = :b2
> >   AND co_line_no = :b1
> >===
> 

Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Jonathan Lewis]

This looks like a v9 trace file, which means
there may be new issues involved that I
haven't come across yet. For example, 9.2
introduces a mode 2 TM lock on pk/fk activity
for some reason that I haven't worked out,
so this may be a side-effect.

However, (assuming no big changes from v8)
this is TM lock in mode 5 (SSX) colliding with
a mode 3 (SX), so it is most likely a pk/fk issue -
despite your comment to the contrary.

If it were a "purely data" problem I would expect
to see a mode 6 TX lock, if it were any of the
"internal structure" issues I would expect to
see a mode 4 TX lock.

The 'Rows waited on:' line could be down to
v9 recording the block address of the most
recent buffer busy wait, write wait, etc. which
is a very recent enhancement - but since the
values are not cleared when the wait ends,
this can cause confusion.

Is this an array-based update ?  And is the
SQL from this session (the one that dumped
the graph) the same as the SQL that has been
dumped for the other session ?


Most critically - do you have any triggers on
the child table that may be doing parent
table activity that you've overlooked ?





Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 24 December 2002 23:49


>Jonathan,
>
>What do you make out of following deadlock graph. This is happenning
when 2
>instance of same batch process are running. We are absolutely certain
that
>these batch processes are not working on same set of records
(although
>records can be in same block). object f9d5 is wcu_po_line table. I am
unable
>to understand why the update statements are requesting SSX lock on
the
>table. This is not a case of primary/forign key issue with a missing
index
>in child table where primary key is change in master table because
master
>table is not being updated.
>
>Thanks
>Shaleen
>
>Deadlock graph:
>   -Blocker(s)  -Waiter(s
)--
>---
>Resource Name  process session holds waits  process session
holds
>waits
>TM-f9d5-   390 503SX   SSX  290 597
SX
>SSX
>TM-f9d5-   290 597SX   SSX  390 503
SX
>SSX
>session 503: DID 0001-0186-0002 session 597: DID
0001-0122-0002
>session 597: DID 0001-0122-0002 session 503: DID
0001-0186-0002
>Rows waited on:
>Session 597: obj - rowid = 98A5 - AAADFAAAGCsAAA
>  (dictionary objn - 39077, file - 197, block - 24748, slot - 0)
>Session 503: no row
>SQL statements executed by the waiting sessions:
>Session 597:
>UPDATE wcu_po_line
>   SET po_no = :b21,
>   po_line = :b20,
>   item_price = :b19,
>   po_qty = :b18,
>   invoice_shipped_qty = 0,  --invoice_shipped_qty
>   distributor_item_no = :b17,
>   current_status = :b16,
>   created_dtm = SYSDATE,
>   status_change_dtm = SYSDATE,
>   --created_dtm
>   return_id = NULL, --return_id_in,
>   return_line_no = NULL, --return_line_no_in,
>   min_qty = :b15,
>   wrap_code = :b14,
>   invoice_id = :b13,
>   gift_wrap_UPC = :b12,
>   gift_wrap_price = :b11,
>   wrap_to_label = :b10,
>   wrap_from_label = :b9,
>   item_cost = nvl(:b7,:b6),
>   xml_po_line = :b8,
>   wmc_item_cost = nvl(:b7,:b6),
>   distributor_id = :b5,
>   po_type = :b4
> WHERE po_no = :b3
>   AND co_order_no = :b2
>   AND co_line_no = :b1
>===
>- Original Message -
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 3:33 PM
>


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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Shaleen]

Jonathan,

What do you make out of following deadlock graph. This is happenning when 2
instance of same batch process are running. We are absolutely certain that
these batch processes are not working on same set of records (although
records can be in same block). object f9d5 is wcu_po_line table. I am unable
to understand why the update statements are requesting SSX lock on the
table. This is not a case of primary/forign key issue with a missing index
in child table where primary key is change in master table because master
table is not being updated.

Thanks
Shaleen

Deadlock graph:
   -Blocker(s)  -Waiter(s)--
---
Resource Name  process session holds waits  process session holds
waits
TM-f9d5-   390 503SX   SSX  290 597SX
SSX
TM-f9d5-   290 597SX   SSX  390 503SX
SSX
session 503: DID 0001-0186-0002 session 597: DID 0001-0122-0002
session 597: DID 0001-0122-0002 session 503: DID 0001-0186-0002
Rows waited on:
Session 597: obj - rowid = 98A5 - AAADFAAAGCsAAA
  (dictionary objn - 39077, file - 197, block - 24748, slot - 0)
Session 503: no row
SQL statements executed by the waiting sessions:
Session 597:
UPDATE wcu_po_line
   SET po_no = :b21,
   po_line = :b20,
   item_price = :b19,
   po_qty = :b18,
   invoice_shipped_qty = 0,  --invoice_shipped_qty
   distributor_item_no = :b17,
   current_status = :b16,
   created_dtm = SYSDATE,
   status_change_dtm = SYSDATE,
   --created_dtm
   return_id = NULL, --return_id_in,
   return_line_no = NULL, --return_line_no_in,
   min_qty = :b15,
   wrap_code = :b14,
   invoice_id = :b13,
   gift_wrap_UPC = :b12,
   gift_wrap_price = :b11,
   wrap_to_label = :b10,
   wrap_from_label = :b9,
   item_cost = nvl(:b7,:b6),
   xml_po_line = :b8,
   wmc_item_cost = nvl(:b7,:b6),
   distributor_id = :b5,
   po_type = :b4
 WHERE po_no = :b3
   AND co_order_no = :b2
   AND co_line_no = :b1
===
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 3:33 PM


>
> There is a deadlock here - but I confused the
> issue by making complete garbage of the last
> phrase. Instead of:
>
> >> both X and Y might end up waiting for A.
>
> I should have said
>
> >> both Y and Z might end up waiting for X
>   (which is when you won't get the deadlock)
>
> The critical point comes in the previous
> paragraph though:
>
> >> With a little luck, Y will be waiting for Z
> >> and Z will be waiting for Y (i.e. DEADLOCK)
>
> For Oracle 9, I have only introduced the X
> session to take out one ITL slot from each
> of the two blocks because Oracle 9 forces
> a minimum value of 2 entries per ITL.
>
> This really is a deadlock - which will show a
> deadlock graph with holders in mode 6 and
> waiters in mode 4.   (X and S if I've got the
> letters right - personally I prefer numbers).
>
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan Lewis
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
>
> Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
> Cost Based Optimisation
> (see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )
>
> Next Seminar dates:
> (see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )
>
> England__January 21/23
>
>
> The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 20 December 2002 22:45
>
>
> >Jonathon,
> >
> >This produces ITL waits for sessions Y and Z; but this is not
> deadlock. The
> >deadlock occurs due to a situation where the Session 1 waits for
> something
> >to finish in Session 2, which in turn waits for Session 1 AND, this
> is
> >important, Oracle detects it and kills one of them, rolling back the
> >changes, making a deadlock detected error. Is this not the true error
> >message that occured in the original  thread?
> >
> >In your example, sessions Y and Z will wait indefinitely until X
> commits or
> >rolls back. This is not going to be detected by Oracle nor killed by
> it. So
> >you wouldn't see a message DEADLOCK DETECTED in alert log. Therefore
> setting
> >INITRANS higher is not going to help at all. Rather the application
> logic
> >should be checked to remove a real locking conflict.
> >
> >Am I correct, or am I missing something here?
> >
> >Arup Nanda
> >
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Jonathan Lewis
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network

Re:RE: Right ()

[dgoulet]

OK, NOW can we laugh with you!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Aidan Whitehall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   12/23/2002 9:44 AM

> order by to_number(substr(lt_tk_id,length(lt_tk_id)-1))

Brilliant. Thanks to everyone that mentioned substr.


-- 
Aidan Whitehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Macromedia ColdFusion Developer
Fairbanks Environmental Ltd  +44 (0)1695 51775


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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Jonathan Lewis]

There is a deadlock here - but I confused the
issue by making complete garbage of the last
phrase. Instead of:

>> both X and Y might end up waiting for A.

I should have said

>> both Y and Z might end up waiting for X
  (which is when you won't get the deadlock)

The critical point comes in the previous
paragraph though:

>> With a little luck, Y will be waiting for Z
>> and Z will be waiting for Y (i.e. DEADLOCK)

For Oracle 9, I have only introduced the X
session to take out one ITL slot from each
of the two blocks because Oracle 9 forces
a minimum value of 2 entries per ITL.

This really is a deadlock - which will show a
deadlock graph with holders in mode 6 and
waiters in mode 4.   (X and S if I've got the
letters right - personally I prefer numbers).


Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 20 December 2002 22:45


>Jonathon,
>
>This produces ITL waits for sessions Y and Z; but this is not
deadlock. The
>deadlock occurs due to a situation where the Session 1 waits for
something
>to finish in Session 2, which in turn waits for Session 1 AND, this
is
>important, Oracle detects it and kills one of them, rolling back the
>changes, making a deadlock detected error. Is this not the true error
>message that occured in the original  thread?
>
>In your example, sessions Y and Z will wait indefinitely until X
commits or
>rolls back. This is not going to be detected by Oracle nor killed by
it. So
>you wouldn't see a message DEADLOCK DETECTED in alert log. Therefore
setting
>INITRANS higher is not going to help at all. Rather the application
logic
>should be checked to remove a real locking conflict.
>
>Am I correct, or am I missing something here?
>
>Arup Nanda
>


-- 
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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Arup Nanda]

Jonathon,

This produces ITL waits for sessions Y and Z; but this is not deadlock. The
deadlock occurs due to a situation where the Session 1 waits for something
to finish in Session 2, which in turn waits for Session 1 AND, this is
important, Oracle detects it and kills one of them, rolling back the
changes, making a deadlock detected error. Is this not the true error
message that occured in the original  thread?

In your example, sessions Y and Z will wait indefinitely until X commits or
rolls back. This is not going to be detected by Oracle nor killed by it. So
you wouldn't see a message DEADLOCK DETECTED in alert log. Therefore setting
INITRANS higher is not going to help at all. Rather the application logic
should be checked to remove a real locking conflict.

Am I correct, or am I missing something here?

Arup Nanda


Hi
I have been noticing some times following error with one table during
update.

DEADLOCK DETECTED
Current SQL statement for this session:
"The following deadlock is not an ORACLE error. It is a deadlock due to user
error in the design of an application or from issuing incorrect ad-hoc SQL.
The following information may aid in determining the deadlock:"

Is chaning of INITTRANS would help ?
Thx
-Seema




- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:10 PM


>
> Set maxtrans to 2 on a table.
> Insert three rows into the same block
> and commit.
>
> Use three sessions to update one row
> each.  The third transaction has to  wait
> for one of the other two transactions to
> commit, as there are insufficient ITL
> (interested transaction list) entries for
> three concurrent transactions on the same
> block.
>
> Now repeat the experiment with:
> rows A1, B1, C1 in block 1
> rows A2, B2, C2 in block 2.
>
> Session X updates row A1 and A2,
> Session Y updates row B1
> Session Z updates row C2
> Session Y tries to update row B2
> and waits because the ITL is full
> Session Z tries to update row C1
> and waits because the ITL is full
>
> With a little luck, Y will be waiting for Z
> and Z will be waiting for Y (i.e. DEADLOCK)
> but you may have to fiddle with a more complex
> example, as both X and Y might end up waiting
> for A.
>
>
> It's easier to do this in 8.1 because MAXTRANS
> can be set to 1, so you need only use two
> sessions and two rows per block.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Jonathan Lewis
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
>
> Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
> Cost Based Optimisation
> (see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )
>
> Next Seminar dates:
> (see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )
>
> England__January 21/23
>
>
> The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 20 December 2002 16:56
>
>
> >Jonathan,
> > What do you mean by ITL starvation? And how would it result in a
> >deadlock?
> >
> >Dan Fink
> >
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Jonathan Lewis
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: Object relational features and performance

[dgoulet]

Just because the development tools are object orientated does not mean that the
database has to be as well.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Stephane=20Paquette?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   12/20/2002 9:04 AM

Is this the future ???

I know one big bank where the development is object
oriented and the database (DB2 UDB in this case) is
used as a big flat file. The development is using
java, j2ee, bea weblogic. 


 --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit
: > Stefan - I believe the general consensus had
emerged
> that usually object
> features aren't worth the effort. Often there are
> few benefits, and if you
> don't do it correctly you may see bad performance.
> Two questions:
>1. Are your developers/management enamored with
> the concept of object, or
> is this just your own curiosity?
>2. Is there something about your application that
> leads you to believe
> that it might derive significant benefit from the
> object features?
> For general business applications it is hard to beat
> the flexibility of the
> good old traditional relational data modeling.
>The lack of discussion may provide part of the
> answer to your question.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 40%OCP
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 6:35 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi everybody
> 
> I'm not quite sure wether this has been discussed in
> deep before, but I
> couldn't find anything satisfieing (hope the
> spelling is correct ;)) things
> in the archive.
> Anyway: Due to my lack of experience with any real
> life scenarios with
> Oracle's object relational features, I never tried
> to recommend the usage of
> these and always kept to a "normal" relational
> approach. Does anybody have
> any experience with Types / Nested Tables and the
> like in a (preferrably
> big) production system of any kind ? What's
> recommendable, where are the
> pitfalls ?
> 
> Any input deeply appreciated,
> TIA, Stefan
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stefan Jahnke
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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-
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> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
>  

=
Stéphane Paquette
DBA Oracle et DB2, consultant entrepôt de données
Oracle and DB2 DBA, datawarehouse consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

__
Lèche-vitrine ou lèche-écran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca
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RE: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Fink, Dan]

Jonathan,
Thanks for the explanation. I've always addressed deadlocks as a
row-level issue, but now I see how it can also be a block-level issue. What
a way to start the holidays, with new knowledge (and some tests to run!).

Dan Fink

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 10:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Set maxtrans to 2 on a table.
Insert three rows into the same block
and commit.

Use three sessions to update one row
each.  The third transaction has to  wait 
for one of the other two transactions to 
commit, as there are insufficient ITL
(interested transaction list) entries for
three concurrent transactions on the same
block.

Now repeat the experiment with:
rows A1, B1, C1 in block 1
rows A2, B2, C2 in block 2.

Session X updates row A1 and A2,
Session Y updates row B1
Session Z updates row C2
Session Y tries to update row B2
and waits because the ITL is full
Session Z tries to update row C1
and waits because the ITL is full

With a little luck, Y will be waiting for Z
and Z will be waiting for Y (i.e. DEADLOCK)
but you may have to fiddle with a more complex 
example, as both X and Y might end up waiting
for A.


It's easier to do this in 8.1 because MAXTRANS
can be set to 1, so you need only use two 
sessions and two rows per block.



Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates: 
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 20 December 2002 16:56


>Jonathan,
> What do you mean by ITL starvation? And how would it result in a
>deadlock?
>
>Dan Fink
>


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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: Object relational features and performance

[Stephane Paquette]

I've not been to that place but one colleague (ex-job)
describe it this way :
The developpers only know the objects, they're not
aware of the tables. All the locking and relation
between the objects is done at the application server
level. The application server generates the sql to
read/write the tables. So for them a database or a a
file, they do not care.


I have to start reading about objects, j2ee, xml, uml,
java, ... and I thought I would have time to go
snowboarding during the Christmas time  ;-)

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > Just because the
development tools are object
> orientated does not mean that the
> database has to be as well.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply
> Separator
> Subject:RE: Object relational features and
> performance
> Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Stephane=20Paquette?=
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   12/20/2002 9:04 AM
> 
> Is this the future ???
> 
> I know one big bank where the development is object
> oriented and the database (DB2 UDB in this case) is
> used as a big flat file. The development is using
> java, j2ee, bea weblogic. 
> 
> 
>  --- DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a
> écrit
> : > Stefan - I believe the general consensus had
> emerged
> > that usually object
> > features aren't worth the effort. Often there are
> > few benefits, and if you
> > don't do it correctly you may see bad performance.
> > Two questions:
> >1. Are your developers/management enamored with
> > the concept of object, or
> > is this just your own curiosity?
> >2. Is there something about your application
> that
> > leads you to believe
> > that it might derive significant benefit from the
> > object features?
> > For general business applications it is hard to
> beat
> > the flexibility of the
> > good old traditional relational data modeling.
> >The lack of discussion may provide part of the
> > answer to your question.
> > 
> > Dennis Williams
> > DBA, 40%OCP
> > Lifetouch, Inc.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 6:35 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Hi everybody
> > 
> > I'm not quite sure wether this has been discussed
> in
> > deep before, but I
> > couldn't find anything satisfieing (hope the
> > spelling is correct ;)) things
> > in the archive.
> > Anyway: Due to my lack of experience with any real
> > life scenarios with
> > Oracle's object relational features, I never tried
> > to recommend the usage of
> > these and always kept to a "normal" relational
> > approach. Does anybody have
> > any experience with Types / Nested Tables and the
> > like in a (preferrably
> > big) production system of any kind ? What's
> > recommendable, where are the
> > pitfalls ?
> > 
> > Any input deeply appreciated,
> > TIA, Stefan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Stefan Jahnke
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
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> =
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> Oracle and DB2 DBA, datawarehouse consultant
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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Jonathan Lewis]

Set maxtrans to 2 on a table.
Insert three rows into the same block
and commit.

Use three sessions to update one row
each.  The third transaction has to  wait 
for one of the other two transactions to 
commit, as there are insufficient ITL
(interested transaction list) entries for
three concurrent transactions on the same
block.

Now repeat the experiment with:
rows A1, B1, C1 in block 1
rows A2, B2, C2 in block 2.

Session X updates row A1 and A2,
Session Y updates row B1
Session Z updates row C2
Session Y tries to update row B2
and waits because the ITL is full
Session Z tries to update row C1
and waits because the ITL is full

With a little luck, Y will be waiting for Z
and Z will be waiting for Y (i.e. DEADLOCK)
but you may have to fiddle with a more complex 
example, as both X and Y might end up waiting
for A.


It's easier to do this in 8.1 because MAXTRANS
can be set to 1, so you need only use two 
sessions and two rows per block.



Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates: 
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html





-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 20 December 2002 16:56


>Jonathan,
> What do you mean by ITL starvation? And how would it result in a
>deadlock?
>
>Dan Fink
>


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RE: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Fink, Dan]

Jonathan,
What do you mean by ITL starvation? And how would it result in a
deadlock?

Dan Fink

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



It is possible for ITL starvation to result in deadlocks,
and changing INITRANS (and rebuilding the problem
objects) would help - but no-one can give you an
appropriate answer without seeing the deadlock
graph that usually comes as
"The following information"

It would also help if you told use whether this
was an ORA-04020 deadlock (dictionary internal)
or ORA-00060 (data related).  I think the text
is the one that comes with ORA-00060, but
the two texts are pretty similar.


Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html


>-Original Message-
>Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:55 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Hi
>I have been noticing some times following error with one table during
>update.
>
>DEADLOCK DETECTED
>Current SQL statement for this session:
>"The following deadlock is not an ORACLE error. It is a
>deadlock due to user error in the design of an application
>or from issuing incorrect ad-hoc SQL. The following
>information may aid in determining the deadlock:"
>
>Is chaning of INITTRANS would help ?
>Thx
>-Seema
>


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Re:RE: Undelete Record

[Stephane Paquette]

That's what I told the support team. 
I can give all the imports that are on the tape and
good luck.

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : > If you have no idea
when the data was deleted then
> your completely out of luck. 
> Bad answer I know, but without that little piece of
> information it's a needle in
> several haystacks on several farms type of problem. 
> End of conversation.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply
> Separator
> Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Stephane=20Paquette?=
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   12/20/2002 6:28 AM
> 
> We're in this situation right now.
> A user has delete information and want it back.
> Problem is that we do not know when it was delete.
> 
> I have restore 20 copies (days) of the table via
> import. Going with logminer would have been
> difficult
> since we do not know when the data was changed and
> we
> have a lot of redo generation.
> 
>  --- Naveen Nahata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a
> écrit : > Use logminer
> > 
> >
>
http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10501_01/server.920/a96521/logminer.
> > htm#17869
> > 
> > Regards
> > Naveen
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:14 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Listers,
> > 
> > I have little problem :
> > how to undelete record that we've delete and
> commit
> > so I can restore again
> > in my data, thanks a lot.
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Sony kristanto
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> > http://www.fatcity.com
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> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
> =
> Stéphane Paquette
> DBA Oracle et DB2, consultant entrepôt de données
> Oracle and DB2 DBA, datawarehouse consultant
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>
__
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> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Stephane=20Paquette?=
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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=
Stéphane Paquette
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Fat C

Re:RE: Undelete Record

[dgoulet]

If you have no idea when the data was deleted then your completely out of luck. 
Bad answer I know, but without that little piece of information it's a needle in
several haystacks on several farms type of problem.  End of conversation.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Stephane=20Paquette?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   12/20/2002 6:28 AM

We're in this situation right now.
A user has delete information and want it back.
Problem is that we do not know when it was delete.

I have restore 20 copies (days) of the table via
import. Going with logminer would have been difficult
since we do not know when the data was changed and we
have a lot of redo generation.

 --- Naveen Nahata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a
écrit : > Use logminer
> 
>
http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10501_01/server.920/a96521/logminer.
> htm#17869
> 
> Regards
> Naveen
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:14 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Hi Listers,
> 
> I have little problem :
> how to undelete record that we've delete and commit
> so I can restore again
> in my data, thanks a lot.
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Sony kristanto
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
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=
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DBA Oracle et DB2, consultant entrepôt de données
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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Yechiel Adar]

Hello Dick

If both processes first update table a and then table b there will be no
deadlock problem.
The first process will lock the row for update in table a and goes on to
update table b.
The second one will attempt to lock the row in table a and will wait for the
first to finish.
This can cause a delay but not a deadlock.

I can see another potential problem:
Process a selects item 1 and update stock on hand to 0.
Process b reads item 1 and sees that stock on hand is 1 as process a did not
finished the update in table b yet.
In this case process b might decide that it does not need to update the
stock on hand.
Afterwards process a commit and you got stock on hand = 0 despite the fact
that you have it in the warehouse.

You must check that process b do select for update or does the update anyway
without checking the stock on hand field.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 12:34 AM


> Please allow me to provide a case in point on the subject that we
discovered and
> fixed some time ago.
>
> We have 2 PeopleSoft SQR's that are used for material movement into
and out
> of the stock room.  Both run on a scheduled basis and it is NOT odd to see
both
> running at the same time.  Now for every item in the stock room there is
an
> entry in two different tables, one is a master list of all items (TABLE A)
and
> if they have stock in the stock room + a couple of other control type
columns.
> The other table says where the item is and how much is in that location
(table
> B).  Not bad at this point.
>
> Now, SQRA starts up to allocate material out of the stock room to the
> assembly floor.  It starts by selecting all items that it needs to process
and
> attempts to set stock on hand flag to zero on table A for each item it
has.  It
> then looks in the storage location (table B) and updates the quantity on
hand
> field to decrement it by the amount to be sent to the floor.
>
> SQRB does similar things setting stock on hand in Table A to 1 and
> incrementing the on hand quantity in Table B, but in the reverse order.
>
> Can you see a potential deadlock brewing??
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Fink; Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   12/19/2002 2:04 PM
>
> Seema,
> Changing INITRANS may help IF you see waits for data block
headers.
> INITRANS/MAXTRANS deal with the number of transactions that can lock a
block
> at a given time.
> Deadlocks are caused when TransactionA has locked RowA and TxB has
> locked RowB. Then TxA needs to lock RowB (but can't because TxB has locked
> it) and TxB needs to lock RowA (but can't because TxA has locked it). The
> locks won't be released until the transaction completes, but they cannot
> complete successfully since they cannot acquire the needed lock. So you
have
> a round robin affair. The transaction discovering the deadlock will be
> rolled back.
> Check the application code. Therein lies the problem.
>
> Dan Fink
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Hi
> I have been noticing some times following error with one table during
> update.
>
> DEADLOCK DETECTED
> Current SQL statement for this session:
> "The following deadlock is not an ORACLE error. It is a
> deadlock due to user error in the design of an application
> or from issuing incorrect ad-hoc SQL. The following
> information may aid in determining the deadlock:"
>
> Is chaning of INITTRANS would help ?
> Thx
> -Seema
>
>
> _
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Seema Singh
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: Re:RE: Deadlock

[Jonathan Lewis]

It is possible for ITL starvation to result in deadlocks,
and changing INITRANS (and rebuilding the problem
objects) would help - but no-one can give you an
appropriate answer without seeing the deadlock
graph that usually comes as
"The following information"

It would also help if you told use whether this
was an ORA-04020 deadlock (dictionary internal)
or ORA-00060 (data related).  I think the text
is the one that comes with ORA-00060, but
the two texts are pretty similar.


Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon a new one-day tutorial:
Cost Based Optimisation
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

Next Seminar dates:
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

England__January 21/23


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html


>-Original Message-
>Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:55 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Hi
>I have been noticing some times following error with one table during
>update.
>
>DEADLOCK DETECTED
>Current SQL statement for this session:
>"The following deadlock is not an ORACLE error. It is a
>deadlock due to user error in the design of an application
>or from issuing incorrect ad-hoc SQL. The following
>information may aid in determining the deadlock:"
>
>Is chaning of INITTRANS would help ?
>Thx
>-Seema
>


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Re:RE: Deadlock

[dgoulet]

Please allow me to provide a case in point on the subject that we discovered and
fixed some time ago.  

We have 2 PeopleSoft SQR's that are used for material movement into and out
of the stock room.  Both run on a scheduled basis and it is NOT odd to see both
running at the same time.  Now for every item in the stock room there is an
entry in two different tables, one is a master list of all items (TABLE A) and
if they have stock in the stock room + a couple of other control type columns. 
The other table says where the item is and how much is in that location (table
B).  Not bad at this point.

Now, SQRA starts up to allocate material out of the stock room to the
assembly floor.  It starts by selecting all items that it needs to process and
attempts to set stock on hand flag to zero on table A for each item it has.  It
then looks in the storage location (table B) and updates the quantity on hand
field to decrement it by the amount to be sent to the floor.

SQRB does similar things setting stock on hand in Table A to 1 and
incrementing the on hand quantity in Table B, but in the reverse order.

Can you see a potential deadlock brewing??

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Fink; Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   12/19/2002 2:04 PM

Seema,
Changing INITRANS may help IF you see waits for data block headers.
INITRANS/MAXTRANS deal with the number of transactions that can lock a block
at a given time.
Deadlocks are caused when TransactionA has locked RowA and TxB has
locked RowB. Then TxA needs to lock RowB (but can't because TxB has locked
it) and TxB needs to lock RowA (but can't because TxA has locked it). The
locks won't be released until the transaction completes, but they cannot
complete successfully since they cannot acquire the needed lock. So you have
a round robin affair. The transaction discovering the deadlock will be
rolled back. 
Check the application code. Therein lies the problem.

Dan Fink

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:55 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi
I have been noticing some times following error with one table during 
update.

DEADLOCK DETECTED
Current SQL statement for this session:
"The following deadlock is not an ORACLE error. It is a
deadlock due to user error in the design of an application
or from issuing incorrect ad-hoc SQL. The following
information may aid in determining the deadlock:"

Is chaning of INITTRANS would help ?
Thx
-Seema


_
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Re:RE: password

[dgoulet]

Try this sql script:

/*
 *  DBA Skeleton Key
 *
 *  This script will allow one to crash into any Oracle account.
 *  The only restriction is that the invoker must have the
 *  'alter any user' system priviledge.
 */
 
accept usrname char prompt 'Enter account name to crack: '
set verify off
break on name
column gname new_value _name  noprint
select substr(global_name,1,instr(global_name,'.')-1)gname
from global_name;
clear breaks
break on password
column password new_value _pwd noprint
select password from dba_users
where username = upper('&usrname');
alter user &usrname identified by dummy;
connect &usrname/dummy@&_name
alter user &usrname identified by values '&_pwd';
@login


Reply Separator
Author: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   12/17/2002 3:34 AM

Check the post-it note on their monitor?

:)
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paulo Gomes
  Sent: 17 December 2002 10:55
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: RE: password


  he can't but he can change it to a new one and then put the old back on
-Original Message-
From: faisal ahmad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: terça-feira, 17 de Dezembro de 2002 4:09
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: password


how can a dba see the password of a user.



The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* -- Please see
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information (like subscribing).






Check 
the post-it note on their monitor? 
 
:)

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paulo GomesSent: 17 
  December 2002 10:55To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: password
  he 
  can't but he can change it to a new one and then put the old back 
  on
  
-Original Message-From: faisal ahmad 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: terça-feira, 17 de 
Dezembro de 2002 4:09To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: password

how can a dba see the password of a user.

The new http://g.msn.com/8HMAEN/2018";>MSN 8: smart spam 
protection and 2 months FREE* -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: 
http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: faisal ahmad INET: 
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information (like subscribing). 


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Re:RE: password

[dgoulet]

Anyone know who that hacker is??

Reply Separator
Author: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   12/17/2002 6:23 AM

Yes, you can do this, but it still doesn't tell you the users *current*
password does it?

Has anyone tried:

http://home.earthlink.net/~adamshalon/oracle_password_cracker/

?

Mark
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 17 December 2002 13:59
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: RE: password



  And you can use it to change it to your convenience and later
  get this encrypted password "IN" without the knowledge of
  the user..

  Regards
  Jai


   Paulo Gomes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12/17/02 06:08 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L


To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject:RE: password



  nope u can get the encripted password from the oracle dictionáry
  -Original Message-
  From: Mark Leith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: terça-feira, 17 de Dezembro de 2002 11:34
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: RE: password

  Check the post-it note on their monitor?

  :)
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paulo Gomes
  Sent: 17 December 2002 10:55
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: RE: password

  he can't but he can change it to a new one and then put the old back on
  -Original Message-
  From: faisal ahmad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: terça-feira, 17 de Dezembro de 2002 4:09
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: password

  how can a dba see the password of a user.



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information (like subscribing).








Yes, 
you can do this, but it still doesn't tell you the users *current* password does

it? 
 
Has 
anyone tried:
 
http://home.earthlink.net/~adamshalon/oracle_password_cracker/";>http://hom
e.earthlink.net/~adamshalon/oracle_password_cracker/
 
?
 
Mark

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 
  17 December 2002 13:59To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: passwordAnd you can use it to change it to your convenience and

  later get this encrypted password "IN"

  without the knowledge of the 
  user.. RegardsJai 
  
  


  
  Paulo Gomes 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
12/17/02 06:08 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L 
                  To:     
   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>         cc:       
        
  Subject:        RE: 
  passwordnope u can get the encripted password from the oracle dictionáry

  -Original Message-From: Mark 
  Leith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: terça-feira, 17 de 
  Dezembro de 2002 11:34To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: passwordCheck the post-it note on their monitor?   :) 
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paulo 
  GomesSent: 17 December 2002 10:55To: Multiple recipients

  of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: passwordhe can't but he can change it to a new one and 
  then put the old back on -Original 
  Message-From: faisal ahmad 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: terça-feira, 17 de Dezembro

  de 2002 4:09To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: passwordhow can a dba 
  see the password of a user. 
  
  The new http://g.msn.com/8HMAEN/2018";>MSN 8: smart spam protection 
  and 2 months FREE* -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: 
  http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: faisal ahmad INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, 
  California -- Mailing list and web hosting services 
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  REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: 
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Re:RE: a PL/SQL design question.

[dgoulet]

DBMS jobs are good things for stuff that can occur totally within the database
and on a scheduled basis only.  It sounds, RAJ, like your developers made a real
mess.  What would have been a better idea would have been to have the trigger
update a table that the job on a scheduled basis checked for what it needed to
do.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   12/10/2002 4:38 AM

Jeremy, as I wholeheartedly agree that dbms_job is a good thing, here is my
recent experience ...

One of the development group recently posed us the question "Can we use a db
trigger to fire a dbms_job to be executed only once?" we reluctantly agreed
only on the condition that this job will not be a repeating job as 9012 has
had its own problems with dbms_job (the server sometimes forgets that there
a jobs to run ...). 

The dev team tested it in ACPT and okayed it to go. That night I was on call
and computer room called me to say that the system is very slow and one of
the support person called to say that they were getting ora-4030 errors on
simple selects.

Well I logged on, looked at the system, it showed some load, but then I
looked at dba_job queue and boy there were 14000 jobs sitting waiting to be
run. 

bottom line: I shut off job_queue_processes to zero, disabled the triggers
on the tables that submitted these jobs, gave all the details to the
developer and his manager after waking them up at 2am and received a promise
that they will fix the code tomorrow before 12noon. They did.

The reason, the development team "didn't anticipate" that there will be so
many changes so they didn't optimize their code.

I am all for AQ solution ... though I like dbms_job and they do work as
advertised unless of course you are using 901x where thee are some bugs.

My $0.02

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!






RE: a PL/SQL design question.



Jeremy, as I wholeheartedly agree that dbms_job is a good thing,
here is my recent experience ...


One of the development group recently posed us the question
"Can we use a db trigger to fire a dbms_job to be executed only once?"
we reluctantly agreed only on the condition that this job will not be a
repeating job as 9012 has had its own problems with dbms_job (the server
sometimes forgets that there a jobs to run ...). 

The dev team tested it in ACPT and okayed it to go. That night I
was on call and computer room called me to say that the system is very slow and
one of the support person called to say that they were getting ora-4030 errors
on simple selects.

Well I logged on, looked at the system, it showed some load, but
then I looked at dba_job queue and boy there were 14000 jobs sitting waiting to
be run. 

bottom line: I shut off job_queue_processes to zero, disabled
the triggers on the tables that submitted these jobs, gave all the details to
the developer and his manager after waking them up at 2am and received a promise
that they will fix the code tomorrow before 12noon. They did.

The reason, the development team "didn't anticipate"
that there will be so many changes so they didn't optimize their
code.

I am all for AQ solution ... though I like dbms_job and they do
work as advertised unless of course you are using 901x where thee are some
bugs.

My $0.02


Raj
__
Rajendra
Jamadagni
;  MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that
of ESPN Inc. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an
art!




 
This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you.*2

Re:RE: New development in Cobol or PL/SQL - please help

[dgoulet]

Tom,

IMHO, if Babette's organization "see themselves as *never* leaving the Cobol
arena" then it's time to dust off the resume as that organization will become
extinct.  No one that I know of is learning Cobol anymore and there are no
classes at the local universities on the subject.  Fortran classes and
programmers are also becoming a scarce resource to find which is why we left
ManMan and TurboImage for PeopleSoft and Oracle.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/18/2002 5:03 AM

Babette,

The decision really comes down to the organization.  If they see themselves
as *never* leaving the Cobol arena, and they have an ample supply of Cobol
programmers, then they should stay with it.

What you could do is to make friends with the applications people, and show
them how PL/SQL works.  What you will find is that they will take to PL/SQL
like a fish to water.  And pretty soon, more and more PL/SQL packages will
be written that are simply called by the Cobol programs.  Cobol would then
be a simple entry point to the database - able to interface nicely with the
operating system (reading and writing flat files, producing reports and
forms), while the majority of the logic may be written in PL/SQL.

Maybe, just maybe, the person making the decision see's no benefit to using
PL/SQL.  And given your local labor market, maybe he's right!

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 1:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


"Khedr, Waleed" wrote:
> 
> Cobol! Again!:(
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 5:24 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> I just found out today that we have a major development initiative that is
> starting and they are planning on using Pro*Cobol to develop the
> application. (my head is still shaking in disbelief!!!)
> 
> So we will have a Java front-end, invoking MQ series that will go across
to
> the mainframe for MQ series to invoke Pro*Cobol programs that will then do
> the processing (accessing data and doing calculations) and then return
data.
> 
> If anyone has been in this or a similar situation, please help.
> I need some really good arguments as to why we should put the business
logic
> into PL/SQL instead of Pro*Cobol.
> 
> I understand the reason we are using Oracle is that the director has 15
> years experience with it and loves it.  Aaargh!!!
> 
> thanks
> Babette
> 

May I play the devil's advocate? Even if Pro*Cobol seems to be a weird
choice, there may be a case for not coding the logic in PL/SQL :
database portability. I have heard recently of a very, very, very big
company dumping Oracle in favour of DB2. Reason ? Cost. I guess that in
such a case, porting a Pro*Cobol program is easier than PL/SQL.

-- 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Software
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Re:RE: New development in Cobol or PL/SQL - please help

[Gene Sais]

I disagree with your last statement.  Since IBM purchased informix, we are in battle 
with their so-called concurrent licensing ripoff. 

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/17/02 09:43PM >>>
Ron,

Thankyou, I appreciate it.  And for the individual who proposed that it
might be better to do it in Pro*Cobol for database independence.  We have had
the thought of dumping Oracle for it's DB/2 competitor, until we found out that
DB/2 was no cheaper than Oracle in the end run.  Probably the only benefit is
that IBM is more slack on enforcing their licenses.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Ron/Sarah Yount <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/16/2002 2:53 PM

In the "for what it is worth" department:

In addition to Dick's comments (with which I agree)

Be careful how you approach this situation.  If you wish to succeed, it
may be key to let the powers that be know that you are not proposing
bleeding edge solutions, and that looking down the road towards total
cost of ownership and supporting the application, it may behoove them to
consider something more mainstream.

Nobody ever truly wins a discussion by starting an argument with someone
in a higher level of authority.

Perhaps you should inquire about the "why" of the decisions so you
understand the key issues to address to propose a better one.

Good Luck,

Yep, even technical decisions require us to exercise high levels of
diplomacy :-)

-Ron-

-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Babette,

This is one of those "from this old turd to that old fart" messages.
I've been around Oracle since 1985 & I love it too.  But it sounds like
the director has a serious problem with new technology.  Doing anything
in COBOL today?  Even PeopleSoft is busy re-writing their code in C++.
Seesh his age is seriously showing.  Oracle already has an adapter to MQ
series, why re-invent the wheel when someone else has already done a
better job of it.  Then code the business logic in PL/SQL so that not
only can this application use it, but any other that comes around.  I
believe it's known as code reuse.  Another old term.  You might start
off by handing him a copy of Oracle 8i new features & functions.  BTW:
add a copy of the 9i edition as well.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Babette Turner-Underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 2:24 PM

I just found out today that we have a major development initiative that
is starting and they are planning on using Pro*Cobol to develop the
application. (my head is still shaking in disbelief!!!)

So we will have a Java front-end, invoking MQ series that will go across
to the mainframe for MQ series to invoke Pro*Cobol programs that will
then do the processing (accessing data and doing calculations) and then
return data.

If anyone has been in this or a similar situation, please help. I need
some really good arguments as to why we should put the business logic
into PL/SQL instead of Pro*Cobol.

I understand the reason we are using Oracle is that the director has 15
years experience with it and loves it.  Aaargh!!!

thanks
Babette

-- 
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Re:RE: Too many db calls

[Anjo Kolk]

One thing to remember is that not every user call becomes a network 
interaction. It is actually far from that. For example: 

open, parse, bind, define, execute -> is 5 user calls but one sqlnet round 
trip.  (AKA bundled or deferred)

Anjo.


On Monday 18 November 2002 03:33, you wrote:
> Cary,
>
> This is one topic I'll disagree with you.  Assume an application that
> uses the database, but is on a machine outside the db server.  Having a
> number of calls that return one or two rows will have a negative network
> impact that is the results of SQL*Net and it's inefficiencies.  It is
> better in this case to encapsulate all of the database interaction into a
> package where bind variables will be used to return the desired results. 
> Using DBMS_SQL is a really BAD thing to do for stuff like that.  OH, I
> really think that using DBMS_SQL is a whole lot easier, for some things
> that is, than PRO*C's prepare, declare, open, fetch, and close especially
> if you have to use that unwieldy SQLDA.  Lastly, I am not a proponent of
> having the application merge result sets.  Most times the merged results
> are smaller in size than the sum of the source giving your network one heck
> of a headache.
>
> BTW: I don't evaluate applications by their BCHR, but by their response
> time.  Hit the return key, if I get an answer back in 10 seconds from the
> original and 5 seconds from the revised, something was done right.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   11/16/2002 1:49 AM
>
> Greg,
>
> That's one case. PL/SQL is a really poor language in which to write an
> application. The language tricks you into believing that writing a
> scalable application can be accomplished in just a few lines of 4GL
> code, but it's really not true. To write scalable PL/SQL, you need to
> use DBMS_SQL. The resulting code is even more cumbersome than the same
> function written in Pro*C.
>
> Any language can be abused, though. We see a lot of Java, Visual Basic,
> and Powerbuilder applications that do stuff like...
>
> 1. Parse inside loops, using literals instead of bind variables.
> 2. Parse *twice* for each execute by doing describe+parse+execute.
> 3. Manipulate one row at a time instead of using array processing
> capabilities on fetches or inserts (this one, ironically, raises a
> system's BCHR while it kills response time).
> 4. Join result sets in the application instead of in the database.
>
>
> Cary Millsap
> Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> http://www.hotsos.com
>
> Upcoming events:
> - Hotsos Clinic, Dec 9-11 Honolulu
> - 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas
> - Jonathan Lewis' Optimising Oracle, Nov 19-21 Dallas
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 2:38 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
> Cary,
>
> Thank you.
>
> Could you elaborate on the issue of excessive database calls, which show
> up
> as excessive network traffic?
>
> I can picture a PL/SQL loop, which executes an SQL statement over and
> over
> again.  This would produce many database calls, and it might be possible
> to
> remove the loop altogether, replacing it with a single SQL statement.
> This
> would reduce the database calls.
>
> Is this the "classic" type of situation that produces too many db calls?
> Or
> are there other situations I'm missing that are more likely to be the
> source
> of this problem?
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:13 PM
>
> > Greg,
> >
> > I believe that the cultural root cause of the excessive LIO problem is
> > the conception that physical I/O is what makes databases slow. Disk
>
> I/O
>
> > certainly *can* make a system slow, but in about 598 of 600 cases
>
> we've
>
> > seen in the past three years, it hasn't. ["Why you should focus on
>
> LIOs
>
> > instead of PIOs" at www.hotsos.com/catalog]
> >
> > The fixation on PIO of course focuses people's attention on the
>
> database
>
> > buffer cache hit ratio (BCHR) metric for evaluating efficiency. The
> > problem is that the BCHR is a metric of INSTANCE efficiency, not SQL
> > efficiency. However, many people mistakenly apply it as a metric of
>
> SQL
>
> > efficiency anyway.
> >
> > Of course, if one's radar equates SQL efficiency with the BCHR's
> > proximity to 100%, then a lot of really bad SQL is going to show up on
> > your radar wrongly identified as really good SQL. ["Why a 99% buffer
> > cache hit ratio is not okay" at www.hotsos.com/catalog]
> >
> > One "classic" result is that people go on search and destroy missions
> > for all full-table scans. They end up producing more execution plans
> > that look like this than they should have:
> >
> >   NESTED LOOPS
> > TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID
> >   INDEX RANGE SCAN
> > TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID
> >   INDEX R

Re:RE: Too many db calls

[dgoulet]

Cary,

This is one topic I'll disagree with you.  Assume an application that uses
the database, but is on a machine outside the db server.  Having a number of
calls that return one or two rows will have a negative network impact that is
the results of SQL*Net and it's inefficiencies.  It is better in this case to
encapsulate all of the database interaction into a package where bind variables
will be used to return the desired results.  Using DBMS_SQL is a really BAD
thing to do for stuff like that.  OH, I really think that using DBMS_SQL is a
whole lot easier, for some things that is, than PRO*C's prepare, declare, open,
fetch, and close especially if you have to use that unwieldy SQLDA.  Lastly, I
am not a proponent of having the application merge result sets.  Most times the
merged results are smaller in size than the sum of the source giving your
network one heck of a headache.

BTW: I don't evaluate applications by their BCHR, but by their response
time.  Hit the return key, if I get an answer back in 10 seconds from the
original and 5 seconds from the revised, something was done right.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/16/2002 1:49 AM

Greg,

That's one case. PL/SQL is a really poor language in which to write an
application. The language tricks you into believing that writing a
scalable application can be accomplished in just a few lines of 4GL
code, but it's really not true. To write scalable PL/SQL, you need to
use DBMS_SQL. The resulting code is even more cumbersome than the same
function written in Pro*C.

Any language can be abused, though. We see a lot of Java, Visual Basic,
and Powerbuilder applications that do stuff like...

1. Parse inside loops, using literals instead of bind variables.
2. Parse *twice* for each execute by doing describe+parse+execute.
3. Manipulate one row at a time instead of using array processing
capabilities on fetches or inserts (this one, ironically, raises a
system's BCHR while it kills response time).
4. Join result sets in the application instead of in the database.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Hotsos Clinic, Dec 9-11 Honolulu
- 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas
- Jonathan Lewis' Optimising Oracle, Nov 19-21 Dallas


-Original Message-
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 2:38 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Cary,

Thank you.

Could you elaborate on the issue of excessive database calls, which show
up
as excessive network traffic?

I can picture a PL/SQL loop, which executes an SQL statement over and
over
again.  This would produce many database calls, and it might be possible
to
remove the loop altogether, replacing it with a single SQL statement.
This
would reduce the database calls.

Is this the "classic" type of situation that produces too many db calls?
Or
are there other situations I'm missing that are more likely to be the
source
of this problem?

Thanks again.



- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:13 PM


> Greg,
>
> I believe that the cultural root cause of the excessive LIO problem is
> the conception that physical I/O is what makes databases slow. Disk
I/O
> certainly *can* make a system slow, but in about 598 of 600 cases
we've
> seen in the past three years, it hasn't. ["Why you should focus on
LIOs
> instead of PIOs" at www.hotsos.com/catalog]
>
> The fixation on PIO of course focuses people's attention on the
database
> buffer cache hit ratio (BCHR) metric for evaluating efficiency. The
> problem is that the BCHR is a metric of INSTANCE efficiency, not SQL
> efficiency. However, many people mistakenly apply it as a metric of
SQL
> efficiency anyway.
>
> Of course, if one's radar equates SQL efficiency with the BCHR's
> proximity to 100%, then a lot of really bad SQL is going to show up on
> your radar wrongly identified as really good SQL. ["Why a 99% buffer
> cache hit ratio is not okay" at www.hotsos.com/catalog]
>
> One "classic" result is that people go on search and destroy missions
> for all full-table scans. They end up producing more execution plans
> that look like this than they should have:
>
>   NESTED LOOPS
> TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID
>   INDEX RANGE SCAN
> TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID
>   INDEX RANGE SCAN
>
> This kind of plan produces great hit ratios because it tends to
revisit
> the same small set of blocks over and over again. This kind of plan is
> of course appropriate in many cases. But sometimes it is actually less
> work in the database to use full-table scans. ["When to use an index"
at
> www.hotsos.com/catalog.]
>
>
> Cary Millsap
> Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
> http://www.hotsos.com
>
> Upcoming events:
> - Hotsos Clinic, Dec 9-11 Honolulu
> - 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas
> - Jo

Re:RE: New development in Cobol or PL/SQL - please help

[dgoulet]

Ron,

Thankyou, I appreciate it.  And for the individual who proposed that it
might be better to do it in Pro*Cobol for database independence.  We have had
the thought of dumping Oracle for it's DB/2 competitor, until we found out that
DB/2 was no cheaper than Oracle in the end run.  Probably the only benefit is
that IBM is more slack on enforcing their licenses.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Ron/Sarah Yount <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/16/2002 2:53 PM

In the "for what it is worth" department:

In addition to Dick's comments (with which I agree)

Be careful how you approach this situation.  If you wish to succeed, it
may be key to let the powers that be know that you are not proposing
bleeding edge solutions, and that looking down the road towards total
cost of ownership and supporting the application, it may behoove them to
consider something more mainstream.

Nobody ever truly wins a discussion by starting an argument with someone
in a higher level of authority.

Perhaps you should inquire about the "why" of the decisions so you
understand the key issues to address to propose a better one.

Good Luck,

Yep, even technical decisions require us to exercise high levels of
diplomacy :-)

-Ron-

-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Babette,

This is one of those "from this old turd to that old fart" messages.
I've been around Oracle since 1985 & I love it too.  But it sounds like
the director has a serious problem with new technology.  Doing anything
in COBOL today?  Even PeopleSoft is busy re-writing their code in C++.
Seesh his age is seriously showing.  Oracle already has an adapter to MQ
series, why re-invent the wheel when someone else has already done a
better job of it.  Then code the business logic in PL/SQL so that not
only can this application use it, but any other that comes around.  I
believe it's known as code reuse.  Another old term.  You might start
off by handing him a copy of Oracle 8i new features & functions.  BTW:
add a copy of the 9i edition as well.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Babette Turner-Underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 2:24 PM

I just found out today that we have a major development initiative that
is starting and they are planning on using Pro*Cobol to develop the
application. (my head is still shaking in disbelief!!!)

So we will have a Java front-end, invoking MQ series that will go across
to the mainframe for MQ series to invoke Pro*Cobol programs that will
then do the processing (accessing data and doing calculations) and then
return data.

If anyone has been in this or a similar situation, please help. I need
some really good arguments as to why we should put the business logic
into PL/SQL instead of Pro*Cobol.

I understand the reason we are using Oracle is that the director has 15
years experience with it and loves it.  Aaargh!!!

thanks
Babette

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Babette Turner-Underwood
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[dgoulet]

Jerry,

I'll take better performing over nicer looking anyday.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Whittle Jerome Contr NCI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 11:34 AM

Jared,

I'm still on 7.3.4 but I'm sure that you are right about the WHERE clause in
this case. It went from an INDEX FULL SCAN to an INDEX UNIQUE SCAN on the same
index once the blasted concatenations were removed. One programmer says he likes
to write it that way because it's simpler and nicer looking!

Still I've seen some nice speed gains when just converting some WHERE statements
from NOT IN to NOT EXISTS.

YMMV

Jerry Whittle
ACIFICS DBA
NCI Information Systems Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
618-622-4145

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> I suspect that the improvments are more likely due to your
> rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.
> 
> Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN actually
> seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.
> 
> That original WHERE clause is really a piece of work.
> 
> Jared
> 
> "Whittle Jerome Contr NCI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> I've seen worse. My programmers don't know how to use NOT EXISTS even 
> though I've explained it many times. And that's the least of my problems. 
> Look at this mess:
>SELECT * 
>  FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp 
> WHEREmanifest_type 
>   || manifesting_station 
>   || fiscal_year 
>   || manifest_serial_number NOT IN ( 
>  SELECTmanifest_type 
> || manifesting_station 
> || fiscal_year 
> || manifest_serial_number 
>FROM manifest_serial_number_history) 
> 
> Takes over an hour to run. I rewrote it as such: 
> SELECT * 
>   FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp t 
>  WHERE NOT EXISTS 
> (SELECT 'X' 
>  FROM manifest_serial_number_history h 
>  WHERE 
>  t.manifest_type = h.manifest_type and 
>  t.manifesting_station = h.manifesting_station and 
>  t.fiscal_year = h.fiscal_year and 
>t.manifest_serial_number = h.manifest_serial_number ) 
> 
> Under a second. 
> 
> Jerry Whittle 
> ACIFICS DBA 
> NCI Information Systems Inc. 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 618-622-4145 
> 




RE: CONSISTANT GETS




Jared,


I'm still on 7.3.4 but
I'm sure that you are right about the WHERE clause in this case. It went from an
INDEX FULL SCAN to an INDEX UNIQUE SCAN on the same index once the blasted
concatenations were removed. One programmer says he likes to write it that way
because it's simpler and nicer looking!

Still I've seen some
nice speed gains when just converting some WHERE statements from NOT IN to NOT
EXISTS.


YMMV


Jerry Whittle

ACIFICS DBA

NCI Information Systems
Inc.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

618-622-4145


-Original
Message-

From:  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]


Jerry,


I suspect that the improvments
are more likely due to your

rewriting the WHERE clause
rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.


Especially if the database were
9i, where NOT IN actually

seems get a better execution
path than NOT EXISTS.


That original WHERE clause is
really a piece of work.


Jared


"Whittle Jerome Contr
NCI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


I've seen worse. My programmers
don't know how to use NOT EXISTS even 

though I've explained it many
times. And that's the least of my problems. 

Look at this
mess:

   SELECT *


 FROM
sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp 

   
WHERE    manifest_type 

  ||
manifesting_station 

  ||
fiscal_year 

  ||
manifest_serial_number NOT IN ( 

   &
nbsp; SELECT    manifest_type 

   &
nbsp;    || manifesting_station


   &
nbsp;    || fiscal_year 

   &
nbsp;    || manifest_serial_number


   &
nbsp;   FROM manifest_serial_number_history) 


Takes over an hour to run. I
rewrote it as such: 

SELECT * 

  FROM
sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp t 

 WHERE NOT EXISTS


(SELECT 'X' 

 FROM
manifest_serial_number_history h 

 WHERE 

 t.manifest_type =
h.manifest_type and 

 t.manifesting_station =
h.manifesting_station and 

 t.fiscal_year =
h.fiscal_year and 

   t.manifest_serial_number =
h.manifest_serial_number ) 


Under a second. 


Jerry Whittle 

ACIFICS DBA 

NCI Information Systems Inc.


[EMAIL PROTECTED]


618-622-4145 




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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: How to set client's characterset on session level?

[dgoulet]

Alex,

Humm, it would appear that you are right.  After looking through the manuals
and MetaLink it appears that the only why you can change the charecterset is at
the client by updating the nls_lang environment (or registry if windoes)
setting.  Seems that characterset is specifically for how the client displays
things.  Damn nasty.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Alexandre Gorbatchev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 4:44 PM

Dick,

I have already thoroughly RTFMed on this issue, but didn't find anything
suitable using ALTER SESSION SET NLS_*

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
NLS_LAN consists of 3 parts: language, territory and characterset. Language
and territory can be set/changed at session level as parameters NLS_LANGUAGE
and NLS_TERRITORY respectively. But there is no alternative (at least I
didn't find one) for characterset.

I can ALTER SESSION SET NLS_LANGUAGE=AMERICAN. However, this does not change
character encoding scheme.

Thanks,
Alex

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dgoulet@;vicr.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:06 PM
> To: Alexandre Gorbatchev; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re:How to set client's characterset on session level?
>
>
> See "alter session set nls_language" in the SQL Reference manual.
>
> Reply Separator
> Subject:How to set client's characterset  on session level?
> Author: "Alexandre Gorbatchev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   11/15/2002 2:58 AM
>
> Hello guys,
>
> I need to use two (or more) different client applications from the same
> client workstation. Applications use different charactersets WE8PC858 and
> WE8ISO8859P1. That's a sort of having different NLS_LANG for each session.
>
> Maybe I can create a specific connect description in listener? Or
> I can put
> something in AFTER LOGIN trigger? Or put some parameters when establishing
> connection?
>
> I can change NLS_TERRITORY but not characterset. I am a little
> bit confused
> because cannot resolve this rather simple (I thought) case.
>
> Any advice?
> TIA,
> Alex
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Alexandre Gorbatchev
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>
>

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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[dgoulet]

Tom,

There aren't no beauty where the sun don't shine!!  And that's where I
parked this one!! *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 7:54 AM

Dick,

it's a beauty thing...

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Raj,

I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop:

SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,
PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA
_COD
E,
PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,'  ','
',00 
FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL,
PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 
WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 
AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND
OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 
AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60'  
AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 
AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 
AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 
AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 
AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 
   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 
   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 
   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 
   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 
GROUP BY
OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID,
TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,
OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 


Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 5:33 AM

Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 

Some developers here think that by setting some magic instance parameters we
can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just bought a 6 pack
of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!

Reply Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34 AM

Hamid,

I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000 rows to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows), then the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on all the SQL queries"
is not yet true.

If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it is time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.

The answer to your problem is not in your instance parameters.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com







RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS



Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 


Some developers here think that by setting some magic
instance
parameters we can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just
bought
a 6 pack of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni 
    MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect
that
of ESPN Inc. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an
art!


Reply
Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34
AM


Hamid,


I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000
rows
to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows),
then
the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on
all
the SQL queries"
is not yet true.


If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it
is
time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business
processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.


The answer to your problem is not in your instance
parameters.



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://www.hotsos.com




 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, Californ

Re:RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[dgoulet]

Raj,

I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop:

SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,
PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_COD
E,
PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,'  ','
',00 
FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL,
PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 
WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 
AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND
OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 
AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60'  
AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 
AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 
AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 
AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 
AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 
   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 
   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 
   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 
   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 
GROUP BY OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID,
TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,
OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 


Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 5:33 AM

Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 

Some developers here think that by setting some magic instance parameters we
can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just bought a 6 pack
of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!

Reply Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34 AM

Hamid,

I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000 rows to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows), then the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on all the SQL queries"
is not yet true.

If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it is time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.

The answer to your problem is not in your instance parameters.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com







RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS



Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 


Some developers here think that by setting some magic instance
parameters we can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just bought
a 6 pack of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni 
    MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that
of ESPN Inc. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an
art!


Reply Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34
AM


Hamid,


I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000 rows
to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows), then
the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on all
the SQL queries"
is not yet true.


If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it is
time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business
processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.


The answer to your problem is not in your instance
parameters.



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://www.hotsos.com




 
*This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you.*1

Re:RE: RE: dumping microsoft desktop?

[dgoulet]

OH, talk about cruel and unusual punishment!!  For the fish that is.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 1:38 PM

Well, once upon a time there was an event called Boston Tea Party
which dealt with too expensive product of low quality delivered by 
a monopoly. I wonder whether we can expect Seattle Windows Party?
Would that be too cruel to the fish in Seattle harbor?

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dgoulet@;vicr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:44 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re:RE: dumping microsoft desktop?
> 
> 
> David,
> 
> Just like beauty, winning or loosing in a lawsuit is in 
> the eye of the
> beholder.  Actually in MicroSlop's case it was the justice 
> department that
> bailed and more than likely King George who sat on the judge. 
>  You got to love
> those political action committees and their BIG donors!!  In 
> politics money
> talks louder than anything else.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date:   11/14/2002 12:15 PM
> 
> 
> > Both answers a are expected to be "No". The lawsuit is
> > expected to be dropped. But who knows. They won
> > antitrust case after all.
> > 
> > Nick
> > 
> 
> I know it *seems* like they won, but Microsoft actually lost 
> the antitrust
> case. :-(
> 
> Dave
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: 
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: 
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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-- 
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-- 
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Re:RE: dumping microsoft desktop?

[dgoulet]

David,

Just like beauty, winning or loosing in a lawsuit is in the eye of the
beholder.  Actually in MicroSlop's case it was the justice department that
bailed and more than likely King George who sat on the judge.  You got to love
those political action committees and their BIG donors!!  In politics money
talks louder than anything else.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   11/14/2002 12:15 PM


> Both answers a are expected to be "No". The lawsuit is
> expected to be dropped. But who knows. They won
> antitrust case after all.
> 
> Nick
> 

I know it *seems* like they won, but Microsoft actually lost the antitrust
case. :-(

Dave
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[dgoulet]

Hamid,

This is one of those instances where I'll heartly agree with Cary in ALL
respects.  We run PeopleSoft and have found many a query that seems to spinn
around and around creating a pile of consistent gets and little if any IO.  The
problem that most often exists is that a coorrelated subquery is the last item
in the where clause or the first thing that Oracle does.  Damned nasty.  Check
your code over again and trace it.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34 AM

Hamid,

I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000 rows to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows), then the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on all the SQL queries"
is not yet true.

If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it is time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.

The answer to your problem is not in your instance parameters.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Hotsos Clinic, Dec 9-11 Honolulu
- 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas
- Jonathan Lewis' Optimising Oracle, Nov 19-21 Dallas


-Original Message-
Alavi
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 11:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Dear List,

I am monitoring a database, & I findout there is a transaction which
runing
a long time and others are waiting for this transaction, this
transaction
have 8,000,000 consistant gets with only 1 Physical I/O.
My question is, what I have to do except the SQL tuning to make this
transaction faster, we have done all the necessary tuning on all the SQL
query's.
Here is a copy of ora.ini:

Oracle 8.1.7.4   on sun solaris 2.8

background_dump_dest = /oracle/admin/cmstst/bdump
compatible = 8.1.7.4
control_files = "/cmsdb/cmstst/control02.ctl"
control_files = "/oralogs1/cmstst/control03.ctl"
control_files = "/oracle/oradata/cmstst/control01.ctl"
core_dump_dest = /oracle/admin/cmstst/cdump
db_block_buffers = 1??? this need to
increase?
db_block_lru_latches = 4
db_block_size = 8192
db_file_multiblock_read_count = 16
db_name = cmstst
hash_area_size = 2048000??? need tuning
???
instance_name = cmstst
java_pool_size = 20971520
large_pool_size = 614400
log_archive_dest_1 = "location=/archlogs/cmstst"
log_archive_format = "arch%s.arc"
log_archive_start = TRUE
log_buffer = 262144 ?? this log
buffer
is enough??
log_checkpoint_interval = 1 ?? 
log_checkpoint_timeout = 1800
max_enabled_roles = 30
open_cursors = 300
optimizer_index_caching = 90
optimizer_index_cost_adj = 35
os_authent_prefix = ""
processes = 100
remote_login_passwordfile = EXCLUSIVE
session_cached_cursors = 100
shared_pool_size = 134217728
sort_area_retained_size = 262144
sort_area_size = 262144
timed_statistics = TRUE


I realy appreciate your help and assistant. I am getting confused, just
want
to know changing any of these parameter help the performance to reduce
the
number of CONSISTANT GETS or NOT???

Thanks in advance.



Hamid Alavi
Office 818 737-0526
Cell818 416-5095






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=== 
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Re:RE: When will Oracle 10i be out?

[dgoulet]

Heck, I haven't even gotten a moment to install 9i on a play machine yet!!  And
I've still got 8.0.4 in production!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/8/2002 11:24 AM

I've got 9i production databases. But they are brand-new applications.
I haven't upgraded any of the 8i ones I have as yet, nor are there any
plans to do so.

Isn't there an adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?"


--- "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't want to express my real feelings but @#$%! oracle
> should give us some time to get accustomed to the @#$%! 9i 
> first. Is anybody here running 9i in production? My production 
> systems are still on 8i, 8.0 (Oracle Financials) and even 7.3.
> Who makes so stupid business decisions at @#$%! Oracle? Are 
> they out of their @#$%! mind?
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: BALA,PRAKASH (HP-USA,ex1) [mailto:prakash.bala@;HP.COM]
> > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 11:44 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: When will Oracle 10i be out?
> > 
> > 
> > Heard from Tom Kyte that 10i should be out by Dec'03. He also 
> > said that the
> > code is already frozen and beta testing is going on.
> > 
> > Prakash
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 14:09
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > The day we all finish upgrading our databases to 9i.
> > 
> > Sunil Nookala
> > DBA
> > Dell Corp.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:09 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Has anyone heard when Oracle will be releasing version 10i?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: Pall, Tom [Contractor]
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
> services
> >
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> > 
> > -- 
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> > Author: 
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: BALA,PRAKASH (HP-USA,ex1)
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
> services
> >
> -
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> subscribing).
> > 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
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>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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__
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U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Re:RE: When will Oracle 10i be out?

[dgoulet]

Heck, Would you people kindly give some of us time to get fully up on 8i first!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   11/7/2002 11:08 AM

The day we all finish upgrading our databases to 9i.

Sunil Nookala
DBA
Dell Corp.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Has anyone heard when Oracle will be releasing version 10i?

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Author: Pall, Tom [Contractor]
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Re:RE: Oracle DBA with SAP Needed

[dgoulet]

Yeah, but is smacks of being unethical and un-American.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/6/2002 1:08 PM

Cary - I think you have a good insight. I've encountered that before. Often
that is the reason for some strange employment advertisements in national
magazines. As you say, posting on ORACLE-L may meet the requirement, is
free, and is fast (no need to wait months for the publication date).

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


An administrative requirement causes a lot of these types of postings
with odd-looking salary ranges. Chances are that the company already has
a foreign national candidate in the hiring pipeline for the job at this
salary. INS requires that US citizens be given a fair shot at the job
posting. One of the requirements is to advertise the position publicly.
Oracle-L is a public forum.

What usually happens is that either nobody applies for the position (the
salary's too low, so everybody pokes fun at it). Sometimes, somebody
does apply. But it's very unlikely that at this price, it'll be anyone
qualified.

Having seen this process to fruition and beyond, what often happens is
that the person immigrates to the US, works hard, and makes good. The
company benefits from good labor at a bargain price for at least a year
or two. The applicant benefits in several ways. He or she gets
physically to the USA, making well more than enough money than it takes
for most people to live on. If the person becomes indispensable, the
host company sponsors a green card application. From there, because the
person is free to compete in the USA job market, he or she begins making
the kind of money you'd expect.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Hotsos Clinic, Dec 9-11 Honolulu
- 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas
- Jonathan Lewis' Optimising Oracle, Nov 19-21 Dallas


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Well with the ridiculous salary they are offering, they could at least
train you in the use of SAP.  This is a Fortune 500 company after all.

-- 

Alan Davey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
212-604-0200  x106


On 11/6/2002 10:56 AM, Paulo Gomes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>unfortunatly i don't work with SAP or i would be interessed
>regards
>Paulo
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: quarta-feira, 6 de Novembro de 2002 14:49
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>If you are an Oracle DBA With SAP experience looking for a stable 
>company 
>where you can work within a great team environment, this company 
>in Toledo,
>Ohio 
>is the place for you. This Fortune 500 employer has experienced steady
>growth over
>the hundred years it has been in business and is looking for a top 
>notch
>candidate.
>This company is located in a very reasonable cost of living area 
>and offers
>a varied choice 
>of neighborhood communities.
>If you are looking for a place to grow within your career in a smaller 
>city
>atmosphere 
>this is the opportunity to check out. 
>
>Relocation Assistance is provided.
>
>PLEASE DO NOT send your resume for this position UNLESS you have 
>the skills 
>outlined below for this position.
>
>DO NOT send your resume unless you have a stable work history.
>Candidates whose work history includes frequent job changes connot 
>be
>considered.
>If you are employed by a consulting company you must have a long 
>term
>project history.
>
>This is a full time staff position so no sub-contractors or third 
>parties
>please.
>
>NO H-1B candidates please.
>
>*Requirements:
>-MUST be a team player.
>-3+ years Oracle DBA experience.
>-SAP experience
>-Must have experience with:Installation, Backup and recovery,
>Implementation, Conversion, 
> Performance tuning, Troubleshooting, Development, Database Design,
>Monitoring, and Support.
>-MUST have excellent communications skills
>-Major plusses are: SQL Backtrack, DB Artisan, Powerbuilder, Shell 
>scripting
>and experience with
> Sybase and/or SQL Server. 
>
>Base Salary is 55K-to maybe high 60s Firm.
>
>The employer itself offers a comprehensive medical plan, dental
insurance,
>life insurance, 
>sick leave and disability plans, a retirement plan, vacation days, 
>a 401K
>Plan, and much more. 
>
>For immediate consideration, please email your resume as an attachment 
>to:
>
>OraStaff, Inc.
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Phone: 1-800-549-8502. 
>Please Use Job Code: one/Toledo/DBA-SAP/Jenni
>
>I pay referral fees.
>So please contact me if you know of anyone who would be
qualified/interested
>in the position described above- if it is not a match for your skills.
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>-- 
>Author: OraStaff
>  INET: [EMAIL PR

Re:RE: How can I tell if MTS is activated -- more problems

[Pablo Rodriguez]

No there isn't.
This is my TNSNAMES.

PRUE1.world = 
  (DESCRIPTION = 
(ADDRESS_LIST = 
(ADDRESS = 
  (COMMUNITY = tcp.world)
  (PROTOCOL = TCP)
  (Host = 10.20.81.78)
  (Port = 1521)
)
)
(CONNECT_DATA = (SID = PRUE1)
)
  )




--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: > What does your
TNSNAMES.ORA file look like?  If
> there is a line in there
> '(server=dedicated)' you might as well turn MTS off.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply
> Separator
> Subject:RE: How can I tell if MTS is activated
> -- more problems
> Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pablo=20Rodriguez?=
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   11/6/2002 11:39 AM
> 
> Dave,
> 
>I've seen these processes (ora_S00... and
> ora_d00..) but all connections are being made
> through
> dedicated processes.
> 
> Here's my configuration:
> 
> mts_listener_address = "(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=TCP)
> (HOST=10.20.81.78) (PORT=1521))"
> mts_service  = PRUE1
> mts_dispatchers  = "tcp,2"
> mts_max_dispatchers  = 10
> mts_servers  = 6
> mts_max_servers  = 100
> 
> 
> The listener has been started before the RDBMS:
> 
> listener.ora
> 
> LISTENER =
>   (ADDRESS_LIST=
>
>
(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.20.81.78)(PORT=1521))
> (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=ipc)(KEY=PRUE1)))
> SID_LIST_LISTENER=
>(SID_LIST=
> (SID_DESC=
>   (GLOBAL_DBNAME=PRUE1)
>   (SID_NAME=PRUE1)
>  
> (ORACLE_HOME=/u01/app/oracle/product/8.1.7)
>  )
>)
> 
> 
> lsnrctl services
> 
> LSNRCTL for Linux: Version 8.1.7.0.0 - Production on
> 06-NOV-2002 16:40:58
> 
> (c) Copyright 1998 Oracle Corporation.  All rights
> reserved.
> 
> Connecting to
>
(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.20.81.78)(PORT=1521))
> Services Summary...
>   PRUE1 has 2 service handler(s)
> DEDICATED SERVER established:0 refused:0
>   LOCAL SERVER
> DEDICATED SERVER established:0 refused:0
>   LOCAL SERVER
> The command completed successfully
> 
> 
> BUT the user processes are not using MTS.
> 
> Why aren't they using MTS?
> What's wrong in this configuration?
> 
> 
> thanks for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
--
> To see how many dispatchers/shared servers are
> started
> up with the RDBMS,  check the value of
> 'mts_dispatchers' and 'mts_servers' in the init.ora.
>  
> You can also tell by looking in the
> alert.log(default
> location is  $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/log).
> Sample:  
> PMON started
> DBWR started
> LGWR started
> RECO started
> Thu Sep 14 09:24:15 1995
> starting up 4 shared server(s) ...
> starting up 4 dispatcher(s) for network
> See Note:1012480.6 on Metastink for mor info on MTS
> Processes
> 
> Dave
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:59 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Oracle 8i
> 
> How can I tell if MTS is activated?
> 
> Which parameters should I look at? (in init.ora and
> listener.ora)
> 
> 
> thanks
> Pablo
> 
> 
> 
>
___
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> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pablo=20Rodriguez?=
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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Re:RE: How can I tell if MTS is activated -- more problems

[dgoulet]

What does your TNSNAMES.ORA file look like?  If there is a line in there
'(server=dedicated)' you might as well turn MTS off.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pablo=20Rodriguez?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/6/2002 11:39 AM

Dave,

   I've seen these processes (ora_S00... and
ora_d00..) but all connections are being made through
dedicated processes.

Here's my configuration:

mts_listener_address = "(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=TCP)
(HOST=10.20.81.78) (PORT=1521))"
mts_service  = PRUE1
mts_dispatchers  = "tcp,2"
mts_max_dispatchers  = 10
mts_servers  = 6
mts_max_servers  = 100


The listener has been started before the RDBMS:

listener.ora

LISTENER =
  (ADDRESS_LIST=
   
(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.20.81.78)(PORT=1521))
(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=ipc)(KEY=PRUE1)))
SID_LIST_LISTENER=
   (SID_LIST=
(SID_DESC=
  (GLOBAL_DBNAME=PRUE1)
  (SID_NAME=PRUE1)
  (ORACLE_HOME=/u01/app/oracle/product/8.1.7)
 )
   )


lsnrctl services

LSNRCTL for Linux: Version 8.1.7.0.0 - Production on
06-NOV-2002 16:40:58

(c) Copyright 1998 Oracle Corporation.  All rights
reserved.

Connecting to
(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.20.81.78)(PORT=1521))
Services Summary...
  PRUE1 has 2 service handler(s)
DEDICATED SERVER established:0 refused:0
  LOCAL SERVER
DEDICATED SERVER established:0 refused:0
  LOCAL SERVER
The command completed successfully


BUT the user processes are not using MTS.

Why aren't they using MTS?
What's wrong in this configuration?


thanks for your help.





--
To see how many dispatchers/shared servers are started
up with the RDBMS,  check the value of
'mts_dispatchers' and 'mts_servers' in the init.ora.  
You can also tell by looking in the alert.log(default
location is  $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/log).
Sample:  
PMON started
DBWR started
LGWR started
RECO started
Thu Sep 14 09:24:15 1995
starting up 4 shared server(s) ...
starting up 4 dispatcher(s) for network
See Note:1012480.6 on Metastink for mor info on MTS
Processes

Dave

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Oracle 8i

How can I tell if MTS is activated?

Which parameters should I look at? (in init.ora and
listener.ora)


thanks
Pablo



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Re:RE: Database Monitoring tool

[dgoulet]

Paul,

If your into all that fatty food that the French like (like I do, OOPS my
roots are showing)  Then you NEED all that alcohol to keep the "plumbing clean".
 Now, if you don't mind I'm off to home for some Foigra and Wine!!  Sauteed in
Butter to boot!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Sherman; Paul R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/1/2002 2:10 PM

Well, this is definitely OT, but, it's late, and I'm having some excellent
hot stuffed peppers with my Friday beer, so...

In France, you are likely to be asked, in conversation with someone who
knows you, "how's your liver", just as someone in the U.S. might ask after
your health, or heart. They do not have the rate of heart disease that we
do, despite eating far greater quantities of fatty foods, but they do drink
lots more alcohol (vive la difference!), so they tend to have more liver
problems. This was documented in a 60 Minutes episode not too long ago. The
French have far more time to savor what they eat (1 1/2 to 2-hr. lunches are
common, and only the fools go to MacD's), and have a more relaxed
life-style. I was lucky enough to live in Paris for 6 weeks, so I have some
experience to draw on. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Thank you,

Paul Sherman
DBAElcom, Inc.
voice -  781-501-4143 (direct #)
fax-  781-278-8341 (secure)
email - [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What's that about the French have a great love for the
health of their liver ???

 --- "Sherman, Paul R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> Tom,
> 
> Much better to say Fmlp - (F)iche-(m)oi (l)e (p)aye!
> Or better yet say that
> someone's liver is going bad (the French have a
> great love for the health of
> their liver). To get really down and dirty, say
> something about essences
> (espece de chameaux, etc.).
> 
> Now, as far as Access, I have yet to find a better
> way to load an Excel
> spreadsheet's contents into Oracle than by first
> loading it into Access, and
> then uploading that table into Oracle (even if I do
> have to remember to
> capitalize the column headers and table name). I can
> change data types if
> the need arises (and it freq. does). I hate Access
> only because it allows
> Customer Support (who are, here, authorized to make
> production changes,
> albeit within a very restricted area under very
> specific circumstances) to
> make production changes; else, live and let live is
> my way of looking at
> things.
> 
> I do try an and avoid any response that is not truly
> Oracle-related, but I'm
> feeling very lonely today - sorry.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Paul Sherman
> DBAElcom, Inc.
> voice -  781-501-4143 (direct #)
> fax-  781-278-8341 (secure)
> email - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Stephane,
> 
> B(ite) M(e)
> 
> or, in French:
> 
> Mordez-Moi  
>  
> sincerely, and with all true feeling,
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:19 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> "Mercadante, Thomas F" wrote:
> > 
> > B(uffer) C(ache) H(it) R(atio)
> > 
> > Tom Mercadante
> > Oracle Certified Professional
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 9:03 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > BCHR ???
> > 
> > Anjo ;-)
> > 
> 
> Tom,
> 
>Go and wash your mouth with soap. Akin to
> mentioning Access on this
> list.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Stephane Faroult
> Oriole Software
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Faroult
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
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>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
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> also send 

Re:RE: Get together at OOW

[dgoulet]

Walt,

You may have to get a GPS system to find your way.  I can't find Bozeman,
Montana on any maps!!  Too damned far out in the boonies!!  *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Regina Harter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/1/2002 2:05 PM

If you are looking at Canada, then it's to your left.

At 12:11 PM 11/1/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Well, heck, count me in. I'll be at OOW too, assuming I can find San
>Francisco. Which coast is it on?
>
>--Walt Weaver
>   Bozeman, Montana
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:21 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Do please count me in too. I believe Marlene Theriault will be
>there as well, so we might ask if she would be interested.
>
>RF
>
>Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
>Oracle Database Architect
>CSX Midtier Database Administration
>Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!
>
>Londo Mollari: Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How
>efficient of you.
>
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:40 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>I might be able to scrounge a 7pm appearance by Anjo Kolk, Mogens
>Norgaard, James Morle, Connor McDonald, Gaja Vaidyanatha, John
>Beresniewicz, Pete Sharman, Lex de Haan, and maybe a few others if
>there's room. Would that be okay?
>
>
>Cary Millsap
>Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
>http://www.hotsos.com
>
>Upcoming events:
>- Hotsos Clinic, Dec 9-11 Honolulu
>- 2003 Hotsos Symposium on OracleR System Performance, Feb 9-12 Dallas
>- Jonathan Lewis' Optimising Oracle, Nov 19-21 Dallas
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Gerardo
>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:39 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>John,
>
>I'm planning to make a reservation (for dinner) at 7pm for 15 people on
>Tuesday 11/12/2002.  We can congregate in the cantina for drinks anytime
>before then.  We should have no problem changing the number of people at
>the
>last minute, if necessary.
>
>Gerardo
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:44 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Steve,
>
>I will send out an invite closer to that time - say around 6th or 7th.
>
>John Kanagaraj
>Oracle Applications DBA
>DBSoft Inc
>(W): 408-970-7002
>
>What would you see if you were allowed to look back at your life at the
>end
>of your journey in this earth?
>
>** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those
>of my
>employer or clients **
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Steve McClure [mailto:smcclure@;usscript.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:39 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: Get together at OOW
> >
> >
> > It looks like I will be attending this year pending upper
> > management balking
> > at the registration fee.  As for getting together, I think
> > that would be
> > great, Chevy's is great as well,  In fact Tuesday evening
> > looks great too.
> >
> > So how big a party does that make?  Count me in.
> >
> >
> > Steve McClure
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 8:48 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Yes, it would be nice to meet.
> >
> > I'm not planning anything, I'll let someone else do it.
> >
> > I won't be available during the day at the conference, so
> > it would be best if someone else put's something together.
> >
> > My previous post didn't make it to the list:  I'm attending a couple
> > of Veritas classes at the same time as the conference, so I'll just
> > be a couple miles down the road at the Embarcadero.
> >
> > Jared
> >
> > PS. Rachel, too bad you won't be there.  I'm bringing Blazing
> > Saddles.  ;)
> >
> > On Monday 21 October 2002 16:43, John Kanagaraj wrote:
> > > Jared,
> > >
> > > Count me in as I live in San Jose, and will drop in on any
> > agreed date.
> > > Gerardo Molina (of SF, still on this list?) and self pulled
> > together a
> > > group of illustrious personalities that even included Steve
> > Adams (and the
> > > Goddess of course!)
> > >
> > > It would be a pleasure to meet you after all these years! John
> > > Kanagaraj
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Jared.Still@;radisys.com]
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 4:19 PM
> > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > Subject: Get together at OOW
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear list,
> > > >
> > > > Though I won't be attending OOW, I will be in San Francisco during
>
> > > > those same dates ( 11/10 - 11/15), just a couple miles from the
> > > > Moscone Center where OOW is held.
> > > >
> > > > Are there any plans yet among list members to get together one
> > > > evening?  I think Monday is spoken for myself, but it
> > would be nice
> > > > to meet a few list members another evening.
> > > >
> > > > Jared
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://w

Re:RE: Database Monitoring tool

[dgoulet]

Come on now Mark.  Get up on your soapbox & hand us the sales pitch.  *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/1/2002 1:33 AM

I could give you a great little list, but that would kind of defeat my job
purposes right now ;) If you know that OEM "can be used" why not install and try
it to get a feel for what Oracle themselves think is useful in an Oracle
monitoring tool? Always seems to be a good start.. 

Ah go on, I'll start you off:

Sessions, wait stats, BCHR, SQL, availability, object stats

Mark

 -Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   01 November 2002 07:24
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dear All, 

We are in the process of making a DB monitoring tool, can anyboyd suggest what
all things can be monitored. I know that OEM can be used, but then this cannot
be distributed to the client. 

Regards 
Prem

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Re:RE: oracle or mssql

[dgoulet]

As I said, use mssql ONLY if your boss is willing to be strapped into a
MicroSlop only platform.  If he's even remotely thinking of using a different OS
then you can't use mssql.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   10/23/2002 11:48 PM

goodmorning
everybody who responded to my basic question : thanks

summary

professional : use oracle enterprise edition
semi professional : use oracle standard edition / mssql enterprise edition
in all other cases mssql standard edition



> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van:  Mohammad Rafiq [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Verzonden:woensdag 23 oktober 2002 20:51
> Aan:  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Onderwerp:RE: oracle or mssql
> 
> Xenix is history now...SCO itself stopped it sometime in 1990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:02:19 -0800
> 
> XENIX maybe.
> 
> : )
> 
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> 
> Systems Admin & Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes
> Technology Services| Services technologiques
> Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique
> Maritimes Region, DFO  | Région des Maritimes, MPO
> 
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Is MSSQL server available on UNIX?
> 
> -Rachna
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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Re:RE: Named users!

[dgoulet]

I sure have! :(

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/21/2002 10:48 AM

I have heard rumors that Oracle has tried out this interpretation on some
clients. I have also heard some people were a bit outraged. Have you known
anyone that paid up based on this interpretation?



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 10:31 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Oracle now say that if the database interacts with any other system that has
users these must be counted too ! 

e.g. You have a database that runs a warehouse management system. If this
receives orders from another ERP type system via 
an interface and this system can take internet orders, even if it has its
own database license, then either 
you count all customers or use processor licensing. 





DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


21/10/2002 15:54 
Please respond to ORACLE-L 



To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
cc: 
Subject:RE: Named users!



Sean - I think you are recalling the old "Concurrent Users". 

A named user is defined as follows:
Named User: is defined as an individual authorized by you to use the
programs which are installed on a single server or multiple servers,
regardless of whether the individual is actively using the programs at any
given time. A non human operated device will be counted as a Named User in
addition to all individuals authorized to use the programs, if such devices
can access the programs. If multiplexing hardware or software (e.g., a TAP
monitor or a Web server product) is used, this number must be measured at
the multiplexing front end.

I feel a good measure today is that anyone who can even contemplate
interacting with your database qualifies as a "named user".


Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:58 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Not a particularily technical query but a rather practical one.  With a
named user licence is one user taken per each username returned from a
select username from dba_users?

-
Seán O' Neill
Organon (Ireland) Ltd.
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Re:RE: [Q] Public and private rollback segment?

[Jared . Still]

No, I don't think so.

11:08:27 rsysdevdb.radisys.com - jkstill@dv01 SQL> create tablespace 
puglic rollback segment jks tablespace rbs;

Rollback segment created.

11:08:47 rsysdevdb.radisys.com - jkstill@dv01 SQL> alter rollback segment 
jks online;

Rollback segment altered.

11:08:55 rsysdevdb.radisys.com - jkstill@dv01 SQL> c/on/off
  1* alter rollback segment jks offline
11:08:58 rsysdevdb.radisys.com - jkstill@dv01 SQL> /

Rollback segment altered.

11:09:00 rsysdevdb.radisys.com - jkstill@dv01 SQL> drop public rollback 
segment jks;

Rollback segment dropped.

11:09:08 rsysdevdb.radisys.com - jkstill@dv01 SQL>






[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/17/2002 09:46 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Re:RE: [Q] Public and private rollback segment?


Except in the case of maintenance on rollback segments.  You can take a 
private
segment offline at anytime, whereas a public one has to be done with the
database unmounted.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Baker; Barbara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/17/2002 8:09 AM



Can't remember where I copied this from, but I believe it came from
metalink.  I don't have a version associated with it, so things might have
changed in v9.

HTH
Barb


Public vs. Private Rollback Segments
  
A common misconception about `Private' rollback segments is that they are
segments reserved for a particular use or a particular transaction. The 
only
difference between Public and Private rollback segments is in relation to
the Parallel Server Option. A public rollback segment can be acquired
implicitly by any instance in a parallel server environment. A private
rollback segment must be explicitly acquired by a particular instance 
using
the rollback_segments parameter. If not using OPS, the difference between
the two is insignificant. 


> --
> From: dist cash[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 9:18 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  [Q] Public and private rollback segment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have ORACLE 8.1.7.4 running on NT.  My questions are:
> 
> 1. What difference between public rollback segment and private segement?
> 
> 2. what is benefit on public segment than private segment?
> 
> 3. does public segment only use on "paraller server (RAC)"?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> _
> Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! 
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: dist cash
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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Please see the of

Re:RE: [Q] Public and private rollback segment?

[dgoulet]

Except in the case of maintenance on rollback segments.  You can take a private
segment offline at anytime, whereas a public one has to be done with the
database unmounted.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Baker; Barbara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/17/2002 8:09 AM



Can't remember where I copied this from, but I believe it came from
metalink.  I don't have a version associated with it, so things might have
changed in v9.

HTH
Barb


Public vs. Private Rollback Segments
  
A common misconception about `Private' rollback segments is that they are
segments reserved for a particular use or a particular transaction. The only
difference between Public and Private rollback segments is in relation to
the Parallel Server Option. A public rollback segment can be acquired
implicitly by any instance in a parallel server environment. A private
rollback segment must be explicitly acquired by a particular instance using
the rollback_segments parameter. If not using OPS, the difference between
the two is insignificant. 


> --
> From: dist cash[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 9:18 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  [Q] Public and private rollback segment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have ORACLE 8.1.7.4 running on NT.  My questions are:
> 
> 1. What difference between public rollback segment and private segement?
> 
> 2. what is benefit on public segment than private segment?
> 
> 3. does public segment only use on "paraller server (RAC)"?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> _
> Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! 
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: dist cash
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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Re:RE: RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle

[dgoulet]

Eva,

Your welcome.  Please let all of us know how things work out for future
reference.  And don't be afraid to ask for more.

Dick Goulet
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Re:RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle

[dgoulet]

nsistency to the
errors.

Denham Eva 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: Double Take and Oracle



Lewis,


    I can understand where Eva is coming
from.  I had a demo of a similar
product some time ago.  Their BIG selling point is that
you have a production
server and a backup that is close in time with your production
server at half
(or less) the cost of a hot standby.  Their reasoning is
that you don't have
Oracle running on the standby and consequently don't have to
pay Oracle a
license fee for the second server since only one server is
running at any point
in time.  Logically their point is well taken. 
Regrettably and understandably
that is NOT Oracle's point of view.


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator


Author: Bishop Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/15/2002 2:23
AM


I'm always dubious of these types of products (especially when
there are no
reference sites available) and would opt for a batched up
standby database
solution (syncing every 5/10/15 minutes or so) myself. I'm not
saying
Double-Take is not good - I've got no experience of it and am
sorry it's not
any help but you have an option should Double-Take not work
correctly.


Lewis Bishop
---
Barclays Enable - ISS - E-NTRUST/Bexleyheath NT
Oracle Database Consultant
Watling Street, Bexleyheath, Kent, DA6 7RR (Mail Van R)
Phone : 020 8298 3418
Mobile: 07950 380857
Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Enabling Competitive Advantage for Barclays in IT and
Business Processing"
 
-Original Message-
Sent: 15 October 2002 08:28
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This header confirms that this email message has been swept for
the
presence of computer viruses. 


Corporate IT
THE WOOLWICH
--
Hello Esteemed Gurus 
Pls advise... 
We are trying to get Double Take to work on our site. Does
anyone actually
have this product working??? 
Salesperson claims Double Take is certified by Oracle - does
anyone know?
Where could I find out, other than the company itself?
For those of you who don't know this product pls give your
opinion. Double
Take is a software that copies your database files and
parameter files etc
across to a disaster recovery machine, bit for bit. At failure
of the
production the recovery becomes the production system and
starts up the
database. Basicly the datafiles are still open??
We get the following error when we start up the database on the
recovery
system in tests: 
ORA-01172: recovery of thread 1 stuck at bloack 176624 of file
2. 
I would just like to add that when this happens we resync the
databases and
try again to test and guess what - it is the turn of file 3 to
give the
above error, and so back and forth we go.
To say the very least I am frustrated beyond comprihension. To
make this
worse there is no one else in South Africa that uses this
software with
Oracle, apparently in France. Convienant - I'd say. So I have
no one to turn
to about this. (Apparently it works well with MSSQL). Anyone
any ideas?
The Enviroment is Windows 2K SP3. 
Oracle 817 
Regards 
Denham Eva 
Oracle DBA 
"UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have
to be a genius to
understand the simplicity." 
Dennis Ritchie. 


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Re:RE: A little OT, but somewhat relevant

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

To a degree, but it isn't done as a sporting event over the internet.  These
guys/gals connect to the web site in what they call a stadium.  Their all given
the same problem at the same time & then have to code their answers.  Not sure
what the criteria of judgement are.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/15/2002 6:58 AM

Dick - Isn't that what the new Masters Practicum Exam for Oracle all about?

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:24 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


To ALL,

The following came in the mail this morning.  I visited the web site
(www.topcoder.com) and find it somewhat odd, but!!!  It could spawn into a
lot
of things, like sparing on a database recovery so that your next employer
knows
your capable & not just slinging it.

Dick Goulet

PS: Jared, sorry about the OT, but it IS interesting.



---
Code-Jousting For Jobs
A startup that gives software developers the opportunity to test 
their skills against their peers in online competitions is 
launching its own recruiting service.
http://update.informationweek.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eJIQ0BdFGA0V20Bj330AH

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