System.Data classes and List

[Greg Keogh]

Folks, I get the impression that the DataSet and its child classes classes
are falling out of favour, is that true? However, I personally find them to
be very convenient and full-featured for apps of all sizes (but I don't
expose them to the outside world of course and my discussion here is only
about private use). What I like about DataView and DataRow are the huge
number of interfaces they support, and for me the most important features
are these:

 

1. When bound to a grid you get bi-directional sorting with no code at all.

2. They supports SQL-like filter expressions (Foo Like '%bar%') AND (FooId >
666) for example, and applying these filters is blazingly fast.

3. IEditableObject in DataRowView gives begin/end edit semantics.

 

While coding lots of Entity Framework 4 over the last several weeks I often
have to materialize a collection of entities and send them up to the UI for
display in grids or pickers. The EF4 context only allows materializing T[]
arrays or List of entities, and these are woeful compared to DataView and
DataRow, they don't any of the three lovely features listed above.

 

I have resorted to converting my EF4 query results from raw DbDataRecord
back to DataRow so I get all the functionality back. Why do I have to do
this workaround? Am I missing some other technique?

 

Note, the entities and collections created by netTiers support all the
interfaces that the System.Data classes do, so it's only after migrating to
EF4 that I'm hitting this irritation. It seems that I'm taking a step
backwards with EF4 entities and hence doing stupid workarounds like
converting to System.Data objects.

 

I'm told there is an MSDN EF4 discussion group, so I'll ask about this in
there once I find it and get in.

 

Greg

Re: System.Data classes and List

[Stephen Price]

Ok, who wants to banish Greg? Bags not.
On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Folks, I get the impression that the DataSet and its child classes classes
> are falling out of favour, is that true? However, I personally find them to
> be very convenient and full-featured for apps of all sizes (but I don’t
> expose them to the outside world of course and my discussion here is only
> about private use). What I like about DataView and DataRow are the huge
> number of interfaces they support, and for me the most important features
> are these:
>
> ** **
>
> 1. When bound to a grid you get bi-directional sorting with no code at all.
> 
>
> 2. They supports SQL-like filter expressions (Foo Like '%bar%') AND (FooId
> > 666) for example, and applying these filters is blazingly fast.
>
> 3. IEditableObject in DataRowView gives begin/end edit semantics.
>
> ** **
>
> While coding lots of Entity Framework 4 over the last several weeks I often
> have to materialize a collection of entities and send them up to the UI for
> display in grids or pickers. The EF4 context only allows materializing T[]
> arrays or List of entities, and these are woeful compared to DataView and
> DataRow, they don’t any of the three lovely features listed above.
>
> ** **
>
> I have resorted to converting my EF4 query results from raw DbDataRecord
> back to DataRow so I get all the functionality back. Why do I have to do
> this workaround? Am I missing some other technique?
>
> ** **
>
> Note, the entities and collections created by netTiers support all the
> interfaces that the System.Data classes do, so it’s only after migrating to
> EF4 that I’m hitting this irritation. It seems that I’m taking a step
> backwards with EF4 entities and hence doing stupid workarounds like
> converting to System.Data objects.
>
> ** **
>
> I’m told there is an MSDN EF4 discussion group, so I’ll ask about this in
> there once I find it and get in.
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>

Re: System.Data classes and List

[Winston Pang]

I think you just answered yourself, keyword is convenience. Isn't that what
all these frameworks are for? To make things convenient for us developers.
Sure people get bored of technologies pretty quickly, but what ever does the
job, and if you know it well and can achieve better results with it, then
why not? I wouldn't say they're going away or anything, there just won't be
any investments made to enhance it any more as they probably feel it's
complete and serves its purpose. Maybe you should start fretting when they
deprecate it all, but I don't think they would for now, it is a set of
classes that fall under the ADO.NET set.


On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Folks, I get the impression that the DataSet and its child classes classes
> are falling out of favour, is that true? However, I personally find them to
> be very convenient and full-featured for apps of all sizes (but I don’t
> expose them to the outside world of course and my discussion here is only
> about private use). What I like about DataView and DataRow are the huge
> number of interfaces they support, and for me the most important features
> are these:
>
> ** **
>
> 1. When bound to a grid you get bi-directional sorting with no code at all.
> 
>
> 2. They supports SQL-like filter expressions (Foo Like '%bar%') AND (FooId
> > 666) for example, and applying these filters is blazingly fast.
>
> 3. IEditableObject in DataRowView gives begin/end edit semantics.
>
> ** **
>
> While coding lots of Entity Framework 4 over the last several weeks I often
> have to materialize a collection of entities and send them up to the UI for
> display in grids or pickers. The EF4 context only allows materializing T[]
> arrays or List of entities, and these are woeful compared to DataView and
> DataRow, they don’t any of the three lovely features listed above.
>
> ** **
>
> I have resorted to converting my EF4 query results from raw DbDataRecord
> back to DataRow so I get all the functionality back. Why do I have to do
> this workaround? Am I missing some other technique?
>
> ** **
>
> Note, the entities and collections created by netTiers support all the
> interfaces that the System.Data classes do, so it’s only after migrating to
> EF4 that I’m hitting this irritation. It seems that I’m taking a step
> backwards with EF4 entities and hence doing stupid workarounds like
> converting to System.Data objects.
>
> ** **
>
> I’m told there is an MSDN EF4 discussion group, so I’ll ask about this in
> there once I find it and get in.
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>

Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[David Connors]

Now for something different...

Does anyone work at a place that can mill down a block of metal (with a
working face, say, half the size of a business card) at very high precision?
I have access to a CNC lathe but they can't do internal square corners
(obviously).

Does anyone on the list work at a place with such a device? I am happy to
pay reasonable costs for job set up and milling.

-- 
*David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
189 363
V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact

Re: System.Data classes and List

[Grant Molloy]

Hi Greg..

I've worked a bit with an open source app called nSurvey (
http://survey.codeplex.com), and it uses the datatables and datasets all the
way from DB to UI. However, it's overridden/extended the dataset and data
table to make them more like strongly bound types.

I don't know if these are auto generated (netTiers or other) data objects,
but there are examples in the "Branch  ++  survey-1.2.3.1  ++  Reflector  ++
 NSurvey BE  ++  Votations.NSurvey.Data" project section, and there are
examples in the Web App Project (ie.  Branch  ++  survey-1.2.3.1  ++  Survey
WAP ++  NSurveyAdmin  ++ UserControls ), files which show how the data is
extracted and added to the data objects.  The DAL uses the old MS Data
Application Block helpers to massage the data to and from the db.

As with all models, there's pros and cons, some of which I really noticed
were
PRO - single data object to get data from db to UI in a *relatively*
strongly typed manner
CONS - a real b!tch to hand code new Data object classes..
CONS - the data objects seemed heavy to use, ie. lots of typing.

I personally like using the List for transporting entities..  A fairly
simple linq query can be used to sort and/or query the list, and if you're
using .Net 4.0, then the TPL extension of ".AsParallel" may add some zip to
the sort process.

Grant



On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Folks, I get the impression that the DataSet and its child classes classes
> are falling out of favour, is that true? However, I personally find them to
> be very convenient and full-featured for apps of all sizes (but I don’t
> expose them to the outside world of course and my discussion here is only
> about private use). What I like about DataView and DataRow are the huge
> number of interfaces they support, and for me the most important features
> are these:
>
> ** **
>
> 1. When bound to a grid you get bi-directional sorting with no code at all.
> 
>
> 2. They supports SQL-like filter expressions (Foo Like '%bar%') AND (FooId
> > 666) for example, and applying these filters is blazingly fast.
>
> 3. IEditableObject in DataRowView gives begin/end edit semantics.
>
> ** **
>
> While coding lots of Entity Framework 4 over the last several weeks I often
> have to materialize a collection of entities and send them up to the UI for
> display in grids or pickers. The EF4 context only allows materializing T[]
> arrays or List of entities, and these are woeful compared to DataView and
> DataRow, they don’t any of the three lovely features listed above.
>
> ** **
>
> I have resorted to converting my EF4 query results from raw DbDataRecord
> back to DataRow so I get all the functionality back. Why do I have to do
> this workaround? Am I missing some other technique?
>
> ** **
>
> Note, the entities and collections created by netTiers support all the
> interfaces that the System.Data classes do, so it’s only after migrating to
> EF4 that I’m hitting this irritation. It seems that I’m taking a step
> backwards with EF4 entities and hence doing stupid workarounds like
> converting to System.Data objects.
>
> ** **
>
> I’m told there is an MSDN EF4 discussion group, so I’ll ask about this in
> there once I find it and get in.
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>

Re: System.Data classes and List

[djones147]

Hi,

At the moment, at work, there are three projects running and the one that I 
support.

Legacy app.
Uses datasets everywhere.
Pros.
Very fast, readonly application.
Cons.
Impossible to debug / modify, data is often loaded behind the scenes which 
cause temporary database table locks  

.Net 4 with EF
Pros.
Developpers very engaged with the project, lots of sexy tech.
Cons 
It's been in development now for 6 months and very little visible progress has 
been made. One screen is done with what ammonts to a single select *

.Net 3.5. Nhibernate
Pros
Works very well, transparent for ui developpers.
Cons 
Misconceptions with heriacical classes in nhibernate has made it impossible to 
modify the data source. we have hundreds of work arounds to solve the 
inheritance problems.

.Net 3.5 using datasets mapped to objects.
Pros.
Very easy to use, easy to maintain and add functionality.
Cons.
The code base is easily twice as big as the other projects

Personally, 
if I was doing a new website. I would use nhibernate

Web interface for existing database, ef.

Stand alone Application, ado datasets and map to objects.  

Davy.  

"When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." I feel much 
the same way about xml

-Original Message-
From: "Greg Keogh" 
Sender: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:55:23 
To: 'ozDotNet'
Reply-To: ozDotNet 
Subject: System.Data classes and List

Folks, I get the impression that the DataSet and its child classes classes
are falling out of favour, is that true? However, I personally find them to
be very convenient and full-featured for apps of all sizes (but I don't
expose them to the outside world of course and my discussion here is only
about private use). What I like about DataView and DataRow are the huge
number of interfaces they support, and for me the most important features
are these:

 

1. When bound to a grid you get bi-directional sorting with no code at all.

2. They supports SQL-like filter expressions (Foo Like '%bar%') AND (FooId >
666) for example, and applying these filters is blazingly fast.

3. IEditableObject in DataRowView gives begin/end edit semantics.

 

While coding lots of Entity Framework 4 over the last several weeks I often
have to materialize a collection of entities and send them up to the UI for
display in grids or pickers. The EF4 context only allows materializing T[]
arrays or List of entities, and these are woeful compared to DataView and
DataRow, they don't any of the three lovely features listed above.

 

I have resorted to converting my EF4 query results from raw DbDataRecord
back to DataRow so I get all the functionality back. Why do I have to do
this workaround? Am I missing some other technique?

 

Note, the entities and collections created by netTiers support all the
interfaces that the System.Data classes do, so it's only after migrating to
EF4 that I'm hitting this irritation. It seems that I'm taking a step
backwards with EF4 entities and hence doing stupid workarounds like
converting to System.Data objects.

 

I'm told there is an MSDN EF4 discussion group, so I'll ask about this in
there once I find it and get in.

 

Greg

Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[linas]

Title: Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?


Really enjoyed this post :) 
This would qualify for an award "Most OT of the Decade"
 Any other contenders??

 (I have passed this on to some engineering colleagues in the hope they can help - I am not really taking the piss...) 


Andrew N

On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:37 +1000, "David Connors"  wrote: > Now for something different... > > Does anyone work at a place that can mill down a block of metal (with a > working face, say, half the size of a business card) at very high > precision? > I have access to a CNC lathe but they can't do internal square corners > (obviously). > > Does anyone on the list work at a place with such a device? I am happy to > pay reasonable costs for job set up and milling. > > -- > *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com > Software Engineer > Codify Pty Ltd > Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 > 189 363 > V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors > Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact > 

RE: Silverlight 4 OOB for Mac- Drag drop?

[Greg Keogh]

Winston, I also think it's not possible, but I'm not 100% sure. I did some
drag-and-drop research a few weeks ago and couldn't even find a single
example that was done from first principles inside the app's controls. I
eventually had to rely on ComponentOne's weird control to help me get it
working (in the crudest way). I've never seen an event which would let you
know if something was dropped outside the app.

 

I'd currently like to drag from a full-trust WPF app into Windows Explorer,
but I've stuck that in the too-hard-basket for now. Dropping the other way
is quite easy.

 

Greg

Re: Silverlight 4 OOB for Mac- Drag drop?

[Winston Pang]

Thanks for the responses guys, looks like the general consensus is a no. And
any attempts at doing so is more of a hack and illusion.

Cheers again to everyone! :)

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Winston, I also think it’s not possible, but I’m not 100% sure. I did some
> drag-and-drop research a few weeks ago and couldn’t even find a single
> example that was done from first principles inside the app’s controls. I
> eventually had to rely on ComponentOne’s weird control to help me get it
> working (in the crudest way). I’ve never seen an event which would let you
> know if something was dropped outside the app.
>
> ** **
>
> I’d currently like to drag from a full-trust WPF app into Windows Explorer,
> but I’ve stuck that in the too-hard-basket for now. Dropping the other way
> is quite easy.
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>

RE: System.Data classes and List

[Kirsten Greed]

Hi Davy

Have you looked at EF4.1 Code first release?

I am wondering if it would alter your thinking on prefering Nhibernate for
new projects

Kirsten

 

  _  

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of djones...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 20 July 2011 11:00 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: System.Data classes and List

 

Hi,

At the moment, at work, there are three projects running and the one that I
support.

Legacy app.
Uses datasets everywhere.
Pros.
Very fast, readonly application.
Cons.
Impossible to debug / modify, data is often loaded behind the scenes which
cause temporary database table locks 

.Net 4 with EF
Pros.
Developpers very engaged with the project, lots of sexy tech.
Cons 
It's been in development now for 6 months and very little visible progress
has been made. One screen is done with what ammonts to a single select *

.Net 3.5. Nhibernate
Pros
Works very well, transparent for ui developpers.
Cons 
Misconceptions with heriacical classes in nhibernate has made it impossible
to modify the data source. we have hundreds of work arounds to solve the
inheritance problems.

.Net 3.5 using datasets mapped to objects.
Pros.
Very easy to use, easy to maintain and add functionality.
Cons.
The code base is easily twice as big as the other projects

Personally, 
if I was doing a new website. I would use nhibernate

Web interface for existing database, ef.

Stand alone Application, ado datasets and map to objects. 

Davy. 

"When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." I feel
much the same way about xml

  _  

From: "Greg Keogh"  

Sender: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:55:23 +1000

To: 'ozDotNet'

ReplyTo: ozDotNet  

Subject: System.Data classes and List

 

Folks, I get the impression that the DataSet and its child classes classes
are falling out of favour, is that true? However, I personally find them to
be very convenient and full-featured for apps of all sizes (but I don't
expose them to the outside world of course and my discussion here is only
about private use). What I like about DataView and DataRow are the huge
number of interfaces they support, and for me the most important features
are these:

 

1. When bound to a grid you get bi-directional sorting with no code at all.

2. They supports SQL-like filter expressions (Foo Like '%bar%') AND (FooId >
666) for example, and applying these filters is blazingly fast.

3. IEditableObject in DataRowView gives begin/end edit semantics.

 

While coding lots of Entity Framework 4 over the last several weeks I often
have to materialize a collection of entities and send them up to the UI for
display in grids or pickers. The EF4 context only allows materializing T[]
arrays or List of entities, and these are woeful compared to DataView and
DataRow, they don't any of the three lovely features listed above.

 

I have resorted to converting my EF4 query results from raw DbDataRecord
back to DataRow so I get all the functionality back. Why do I have to do
this workaround? Am I missing some other technique?

 

Note, the entities and collections created by netTiers support all the
interfaces that the System.Data classes do, so it's only after migrating to
EF4 that I'm hitting this irritation. It seems that I'm taking a step
backwards with EF4 entities and hence doing stupid workarounds like
converting to System.Data objects.

 

I'm told there is an MSDN EF4 discussion group, so I'll ask about this in
there once I find it and get in.

 

Greg

RE: System.Data classes and List

[Greg Keogh]

Chaps, your comments are interesting and perhaps make me feel not so guilty
for using System.Data classes in these modern times.

 

I've only used netTiers and EF4 in recent years, but deep down they all run
a SELECT statement, loop through the rows and move the columns into
collections of objects with matching property names. In the early .NET years
I wrote my own code to do that, and I know VB6 developers who are still
doing it.

 

The classes and collections returned by netTiers implemented all of the
interfaces I like in System.Data. The EF4 equivalents do not seem to. So
where does that leave me? I fall back to the "convenience" of System.Data
and I feel guilty, but perhaps I shouldn't. Maybe no one is game to admit
that EF4 is a bit immature.

 

I've had no reply from the EF4 MSDN forum yet.

 

I will continue to send DataSets to pick lists and grids in my UI. However,
I do perform updates and deletes using the EF4 entities and context, and I'm
reasonably happy with the way it works. It's tedious to eager load an entity
with non-tracking, send it up to the UI, edit or delete it, then attach it
back to the context and call ApplyCurrentValues on all the entities before
saving it.

 

netTiers is not regarded as a big player in the ORM field, but my experience
so far is that netTiers is generally better than EF4 because its entity
classes and collections are completely self-tracking, and most importantly,
there is no concept of a context. The only reason I'm learning EF4 and using
it is because it's "the latest greatest thing". I guess marketing does work!

 

Greg

Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[mike smith]

Sounds intriguing. If it aint secret, and you'd have to kill us all if you
told us, go on...

Ideas that occur are does it have to be metal, could you make it with some
of the 3d printer stuff that's starting to happen?



On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:37 PM, David Connors  wrote:

> Now for something different...
>
> Does anyone work at a place that can mill down a block of metal (with a
> working face, say, half the size of a business card) at very high precision?
> I have access to a CNC lathe but they can't do internal square corners
> (obviously).
>
> Does anyone on the list work at a place with such a device? I am happy to
> pay reasonable costs for job set up and milling.
>
> --
> *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
> Software Engineer
> Codify Pty Ltd
> Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
> 189 363
> V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
> Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
>
>


-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[David Connors]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:04 AM, mike smith  wrote:

> Sounds intriguing. If it aint secret, and you'd have to kill us all if you
> told us, go on...
> Ideas that occur are does it have to be metal, could you make it with some
> of the 3d printer stuff that's starting to happen?
>

I want to make a metal stamp (to be applied with heat) in the form of a
low/medium density QR code.

-- 
*David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
189 363
V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact

Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[mike smith]

So something like a branding iron onto leather.  (or forehead[1]) :^)

Of course, if you're using a laser, you could use that direct on end
material to produce code.  But maybe you want to sell the stamp to ppl
without a laser.


[1] a QR code that would take you to www.thenumberofthebeast.com


On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:05 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:04 AM, mike smith  wrote:
>
>> Sounds intriguing. If it aint secret, and you'd have to kill us all if you
>> told us, go on...
>> Ideas that occur are does it have to be metal, could you make it with some
>> of the 3d printer stuff that's starting to happen?
>>
>
> I want to make a metal stamp (to be applied with heat) in the form of a
> low/medium density QR code.
>
> --
> *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
> Software Engineer
> Codify Pty Ltd
> Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
> 189 363
> V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
> Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
>
>


-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[Michael Minutillo]

I wonder if these guys could do it http://www.jetcutaustralia.com.au/

I've seen them get ridiculuous levels of precision.

Michael M. Minutillo
Indiscriminate Information Sponge
http://codermike.com


On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 9:24 AM, mike smith  wrote:

> So something like a branding iron onto leather.  (or forehead[1]) :^)
>
> Of course, if you're using a laser, you could use that direct on end
> material to produce code.  But maybe you want to sell the stamp to ppl
> without a laser.
>
>
> [1] a QR code that would take you to www.thenumberofthebeast.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:05 AM, David Connors  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:04 AM, mike smith  wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds intriguing. If it aint secret, and you'd have to kill us all if
>>> you told us, go on...
>>> Ideas that occur are does it have to be metal, could you make it with
>>> some of the 3d printer stuff that's starting to happen?
>>>
>>
>> I want to make a metal stamp (to be applied with heat) in the form of a
>> low/medium density QR code.
>>
>> --
>> *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
>> Software Engineer
>> Codify Pty Ltd
>> Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
>> 189 363
>> V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
>> Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Meski
>
>http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>
> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>
>

RE: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[Keith Peck]

Have a chat to a stamp maker. I'm sure you aren't the first person to want a 
metal stamp and certainly won't be the last.
A laser cutter will be able to do what you want, but they are restricted by the 
width of the cutting "beam", which in the cases I've seen is actually quite 
wide, something in the area of 1mm.

Worst case scenario is you will need to go to a jeweller.

Keith Peck
Consultant
SMS Management & Technology

T +61 7 3215 7200
F +61 7 3215 7100
www.smsmt.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf 
Of mike smith [meski...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 21 July 2011 11:24 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

So something like a branding iron onto leather.  (or forehead[1]) :^)

Of course, if you're using a laser, you could use that direct on end material 
to produce code.  But maybe you want to sell the stamp to ppl without a laser.


[1] a QR code that would take you to 
www.thenumberofthebeast.com


On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:05 AM, David Connors 
mailto:da...@codify.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:04 AM, mike smith 
mailto:meski...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sounds intriguing. If it aint secret, and you'd have to kill us all if you told 
us, go on...
Ideas that occur are does it have to be metal, could you make it with some of 
the 3d printer stuff that's starting to happen?

I want to make a metal stamp (to be applied with heat) in the form of a 
low/medium density QR code.

--
David Connors | da...@codify.com | 
www.codify.com
Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 
(7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 
363
V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact




--
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


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Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[David Connors]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Keith Peck  wrote:

>  Have a chat to a stamp maker. I'm sure you aren't the first person to
> want a metal stamp and certainly won't be the last.
> A laser cutter will be able to do what you want, but they are restricted by
> the width of the cutting "beam", which in the cases I've seen is actually
> quite wide, something in the area of 1mm.
>
> Worst case scenario is you will need to go to a jeweller.
>

Yeah that'll start getting too expensive for what I am setting up as
essentially a gag at TechEd this year.

I mailed the jetcutter people Mike Minutillo recommended and I'll see what
they can do. I suspect the tolerances I am after are too fine to be done
cheapishly.

-- 
*David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
189 363
V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact

YOW! 2011 Melbourne & Brisbane

[Mitch Wheat]

Hi all

 

Just in case some of you haven't seen this already, the YOW! 2011 Developer
Conference is happening in Melbourne & Brisbane in December (No Perth event
yet, but we're working on it... )

 

Not specifically targeting .NET, but worth checking out.

 

More details here: http://www.yowconference.com.au/

 

Cheers,

Mitch Wheat

 

Re: Anyone got some sort laser cutter better than a CNC lathe?

[Michael Minutillo]

Mention my name, they'll charge you more ;)

Brother in laws family runs it
On Jul 21, 2011 9:45 AM, "David Connors"  wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Keith Peck  wrote:
>
>> Have a chat to a stamp maker. I'm sure you aren't the first person to
>> want a metal stamp and certainly won't be the last.
>> A laser cutter will be able to do what you want, but they are restricted
by
>> the width of the cutting "beam", which in the cases I've seen is actually
>> quite wide, something in the area of 1mm.
>>
>> Worst case scenario is you will need to go to a jeweller.
>>
>
> Yeah that'll start getting too expensive for what I am setting up as
> essentially a gag at TechEd this year.
>
> I mailed the jetcutter people Mike Minutillo recommended and I'll see what
> they can do. I suspect the tolerances I am after are too fine to be done
> cheapishly.
>
> --
> *David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
> Software Engineer
> Codify Pty Ltd
> Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
> 189 363
> V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
> Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact

Re: System.Data classes and List

[Nathan Schultz]

My love affair with datasets fell away as I improved as a programmer...

We initially used data-sets in a failing project years ago early in the .Net
days. It was a nightmare to maintain - and the underlying database schema
wasn't settled. Due to the lack of strong typing in data-sets a change in
column names often went undetected and caused all sorts of issues
down-stream. Then there were several memory leaks that datasets were
responsible for. And datasets are so heavy - our application was more memory
intensive than Outlook (and that's saying a lot) - and we had many
complaints from users. We also found they caused deadlocks in the database
even with just a hundred users or so.

Never again - we went back to straight ADO.Net into plain old class objects
(POCOs), and the simplicity was a breath of fresh air. Initially we missed
the niceties of datasets - get / set xml, sorting, and filtering. We quickly
created helper classes / code snippets to add these things. Data-binding has
never been particularly compelling in .Net (maybe I'm just still scarred
from the VB6 days?) - but it simply never 'worked' with validation anyway.
And we realized the real issue was proper separation of concerns - we were
linking data-base objects directly to the UI; although admittedly
client/server had been all the rage in the years before. We'd written a
'data-driven application' that Microsoft seemed to railroad you into
(probably to keep it RAD like), but we weren't designing things properly.
Essentially the application just seemed 'clunky'.

With a major version release we redesigned out software from scratch with
proper logical layers and separated concerns. While it initially took longer
to develop, in the long run we had much more agile and maintainable code.
Our IT manager even made a point to other teams that our software's
maintenance cost was the lowest even though our project was one of the
largest.

I then left the company onto greener pastures... but a funny thing happened
the other day. I met a lady in the pub who turned out was one of that
companies clients. I mentioned I wrote that piece of software, and she said
that it's still used today, and holds its own - even though it must be over
5 years old now.


Back on topic: These days with LINQ I'm not sure datasets give you
functionally more anyway. These days I still tend to use LINQ2SQL for its
straight-forward data-access although I'm about to try my first project with
EF4.1 code-first. I wouldn't dream of going back to datasets.

Nathan.



On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Chaps, your comments are interesting and perhaps make me feel not so guilty
> for using System.Data classes in these modern times.
>
> ** **
>
> I’ve only used netTiers and EF4 in recent years, but deep down they all run
> a SELECT statement, loop through the rows and move the columns into
> collections of objects with matching property names. In the early .NET years
> I wrote my own code to do that, and I know VB6 developers who are still
> doing it.
>
> ** **
>
> The classes and collections returned by netTiers implemented all of the
> interfaces I like in System.Data. The EF4 equivalents do not seem to. So
> where does that leave me? I fall back to the “convenience” of System.Data
> and I feel guilty, but perhaps I shouldn’t. Maybe no one is game to admit
> that EF4 is a bit immature.
>
> ** **
>
> I’ve had no reply from the EF4 MSDN forum yet.
>
> ** **
>
> I will continue to send DataSets to pick lists and grids in my UI. However,
> I do perform updates and deletes using the EF4 entities and context, and I’m
> reasonably happy with the way it works. It’s tedious to eager load an entity
> with non-tracking, send it up to the UI, edit or delete it, then attach it
> back to the context and call ApplyCurrentValues on all the entities before
> saving it.
>
> ** **
>
> netTiers is not regarded as a big player in the ORM field, but my
> experience so far is that netTiers is generally better than EF4 because its
> entity classes and collections are completely self-tracking, and most
> importantly, there is no concept of a context. The only reason I’m learning
> EF4 and using it is because it’s “the latest greatest thing”. I guess
> marketing does work!
>
> ** **
>
> Greg
>