Re: NBN Petition
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/12/nbnco_appoints_simon_hackett_justin_milne_and_patrick_flannigan_to_board/ Heaven forbid. The board contains people who've actually got some telco experience. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors On 7 November 2013 09:55, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Well that killed the mood didn't it ;) ..but fair pts. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Well, Google has been on record as saying that they prefer a more forward-thinking broadband strategy (aka FTTP): http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/australian-it/nbn-tick-from-google-executive-chairman-eric-schmidt/story-fnb8jsrk-1226208893554 http://www.itwire.com/it-people-news/people/61808-google-australia-boss-says-nbn-debate-flawed http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/business-it/google-australia-chief-wants-nbn-benefits-to-flow-20131007-hv1yc.html But in the grand scheme of Google itself rolling out fibre, we’re an entire country that has a smaller economy than some states or cities in other parts of the world. I doubt we’d be first “cab off the rank”. Our incumbent Federal government’s hostility to supporting such a venture probably doesn’t help *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Wednesday, 6 November 2013 8:30 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition But why not take the petition concept a different direction. How can Google apply these strategies in the US and not do it here in Australia
Re: NBN Petition
Simon's pretty reasonable guy to... I had some major issues with my FTTH with OptiComm and he personally rang me, worked the problem through and in the end did everything but draw us all a mudmap back to OptiComm even though they kept deny they were at fault... suffice to say he won me back to the internode darkside that day :0 --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/12/nbnco_appoints_simon_hackett_justin_milne_and_patrick_flannigan_to_board/ Heaven forbid. The board contains people who've actually got some telco experience. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors On 7 November 2013 09:55, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Well that killed the mood didn't it ;) ..but fair pts. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.comwrote: Well, Google has been on record as saying that they prefer a more forward-thinking broadband strategy (aka FTTP): http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive/australian-it/nbn-tick-from-google-executive-chairman-eric-schmidt/story-fnb8jsrk-1226208893554 http://www.itwire.com/it-people-news/people/61808-google-australia-boss-says-nbn-debate-flawed http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/business-it/google-australia-chief-wants-nbn-benefits-to-flow-20131007-hv1yc.html But in the grand scheme of Google itself rolling out fibre, we’re an entire country that has a smaller economy than some states or cities in other parts of the world. I doubt we’d be first “cab off the rank”. Our incumbent Federal government’s hostility to supporting such a venture probably doesn’t help *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Wednesday, 6 November 2013 8:30 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition But why not take the petition concept a different direction. How can Google apply these strategies in the US and not do it here in Australia
Re: NBN Petition
On 12 November 2013 10:57, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Simon's pretty reasonable guy to... I had some major issues with my FTTH with OptiComm and he personally rang me, worked the problem through and in the end did everything but draw us all a mudmap back to OptiComm even though they kept deny they were at fault... suffice to say he won me back to the internode darkside that day :0 More than that he actually has significant commercial and telecommunications experience - of which, the previous board had zero. Cashing out Internode for 7% of iiNet or whatever it was he got is a financial feat few achieve in their lifetime. I would estimate that there is a very high correlation of FTTP die-hard to Simon Hackett fanboi. It will be funny to watch Whirlpool chew on an HFC/FTTP/FTTN plan endorsed by Hackett. SIMON! YOU'RE CHEATING ON ME! During the election, Turnbull wrote at length about CVC charges and correctly identified that an uncapped 1gbps service would cost $20K a month in wholesale fees and charges. Hackett is also an outspoken critic of the CVC charges as well. The only reason the NBN is affordable at all at the moment is that the rollout was so ballsed up that no single service area has enough connections so all the RSPs get a 100% CVC rebate. The entire financial edifice of the NBN is built upon a legally mandated monopoly funded by extortionate network access charges for the RSPs. It will be interesting to see how they address that as they're on the record as calling it out. David.
RE: NBN Petition
On Lateline when he gave that interview I was watching and Malcolm Turnbull specifically said, and I quote: “[Albanese] said that fibre to the premises can deliver one gigabit per second, 1,000 megs, and you’re quite right, it can,” Turnbull replied. “Do you know what it would cost to have a guaranteed one gig’ service? At least $20,000 a month. $20,000 a month in combined virtual circuit charges … The reality is this: if you want to have a guaranteed one gig service, your retail service provider will have to buy one gig of CVC for you and that is gonna cost $20,000 a month.” “For the average household?” asked Alberici. Turnbull responded: “Well, for any household, which is why, by the way, nobody will buy it other than businesses that need a very big … That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 12:19 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 10:57, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com mailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Simon's pretty reasonable guy to... I had some major issues with my FTTH with OptiComm and he personally rang me, worked the problem through and in the end did everything but draw us all a mudmap back to OptiComm even though they kept deny they were at fault... suffice to say he won me back to the internode darkside that day :0 More than that he actually has significant commercial and telecommunications experience - of which, the previous board had zero. Cashing out Internode for 7% of iiNet or whatever it was he got is a financial feat few achieve in their lifetime. I would estimate that there is a very high correlation of FTTP die-hard to Simon Hackett fanboi. It will be funny to watch Whirlpool chew on an HFC/FTTP/FTTN plan endorsed by Hackett. SIMON! YOU'RE CHEATING ON ME! During the election, Turnbull wrote at length about CVC charges and correctly identified that an uncapped 1gbps service would cost $20K a month in wholesale fees and charges. Hackett is also an outspoken critic of the CVC charges as well. The only reason the NBN is affordable at all at the moment is that the rollout was so ballsed up that no single service area has enough connections so all the RSPs get a 100% CVC rebate. The entire financial edifice of the NBN is built upon a legally mandated monopoly funded by extortionate network access charges for the RSPs. It will be interesting to see how they address that as they're on the record as calling it out. David.
Re: NBN Petition
On 12 November 2013 15:51, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. There is nothing incorrect in what he said, 1gbps flat chat is $20K a month wholesale. End of story. More over, that's *significantly more expensive* than what you can buy today. If Joe Punter uses less, great for him, but a school or a SME might want to use more. It begs the question, what is the average the NBN is designed for? Any sort of application that involves bulk data transfers is out of bounds cost wise - which is somewhat ironic. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. CVC and IP Transit are *completely different things*. NBN Co doesn't even sell IP Transit. You need to pay for both. And you pay CVC even if the data is 'on net' and never leaves your RSP (i.e. watching the TV or downloading freezone). CVC isn't going to go down ever because there is no incentive for it to as competitive technologies are outlawed (except for LTE, etc) David.
RE: NBN Petition
Wasn’t that exactly his point ? From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 3:52 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: NBN Petition On Lateline when he gave that interview I was watching and Malcolm Turnbull specifically said, and I quote: “[Albanese] said that fibre to the premises can deliver one gigabit per second, 1,000 megs, and you’re quite right, it can,” Turnbull replied. “Do you know what it would cost to have a guaranteed one gig’ service? At least $20,000 a month. $20,000 a month in combined virtual circuit charges … The reality is this: if you want to have a guaranteed one gig service, your retail service provider will have to buy one gig of CVC for you and that is gonna cost $20,000 a month.” “For the average household?” asked Alberici. Turnbull responded: “Well, for any household, which is why, by the way, nobody will buy it other than businesses that need a very big … That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 12:19 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 10:57, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Simon's pretty reasonable guy to... I had some major issues with my FTTH with OptiComm and he personally rang me, worked the problem through and in the end did everything but draw us all a mudmap back to OptiComm even though they kept deny they were at fault... suffice to say he won me back to the internode darkside that day :0 More than that he actually has significant commercial and telecommunications experience - of which, the previous board had zero. Cashing out Internode for 7% of iiNet or whatever it was he got is a financial feat few achieve in their lifetime. I would estimate that there is a very high correlation of FTTP die-hard to Simon Hackett fanboi. It will be funny to watch Whirlpool chew on an HFC/FTTP/FTTN plan endorsed by Hackett. SIMON! YOU'RE CHEATING ON ME! During the election, Turnbull wrote at length about CVC charges and correctly identified that an uncapped 1gbps service would cost $20K a month in wholesale fees and charges. Hackett is also an outspoken critic of the CVC charges as well. The only reason the NBN is affordable at all at the moment is that the rollout was so ballsed up that no single service area has enough connections so all the RSPs get a 100% CVC rebate. The entire financial edifice of the NBN is built upon a legally mandated monopoly funded by extortionate network access charges for the RSPs. It will be interesting to see how they address that as they're on the record as calling it out. David. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6773 - Release Date: 10/22/13
RE: NBN Petition
It was deceptive rubbish. He implied that it would cost $20,000 for every household. It’s a blatant lie. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 5:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 15:51, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. There is nothing incorrect in what he said, 1gbps flat chat is $20K a month wholesale. End of story. More over, that's significantly more expensive than what you can buy today. If Joe Punter uses less, great for him, but a school or a SME might want to use more. It begs the question, what is the average the NBN is designed for? Any sort of application that involves bulk data transfers is out of bounds cost wise - which is somewhat ironic. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. CVC and IP Transit are completely different things. NBN Co doesn't even sell IP Transit. You need to pay for both. And you pay CVC even if the data is 'on net' and never leaves your RSP (i.e. watching the TV or downloading freezone). CVC isn't going to go down ever because there is no incentive for it to as competitive technologies are outlawed (except for LTE, etc) David.
RE: NBN Petition
What, that he should get away with misrepresenting what was on offer? Yes, I think you’re right, that was his point. Worked pretty well, too, I see. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 6:09 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: NBN Petition Wasn’t that exactly his point ? From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 3:52 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: NBN Petition On Lateline when he gave that interview I was watching and Malcolm Turnbull specifically said, and I quote: “[Albanese] said that fibre to the premises can deliver one gigabit per second, 1,000 megs, and you’re quite right, it can,” Turnbull replied. “Do you know what it would cost to have a guaranteed one gig’ service? At least $20,000 a month. $20,000 a month in combined virtual circuit charges … The reality is this: if you want to have a guaranteed one gig service, your retail service provider will have to buy one gig of CVC for you and that is gonna cost $20,000 a month.” “For the average household?” asked Alberici. Turnbull responded: “Well, for any household, which is why, by the way, nobody will buy it other than businesses that need a very big … That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 12:19 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 10:57, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com mailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Simon's pretty reasonable guy to... I had some major issues with my FTTH with OptiComm and he personally rang me, worked the problem through and in the end did everything but draw us all a mudmap back to OptiComm even though they kept deny they were at fault... suffice to say he won me back to the internode darkside that day :0 More than that he actually has significant commercial and telecommunications experience - of which, the previous board had zero. Cashing out Internode for 7% of iiNet or whatever it was he got is a financial feat few achieve in their lifetime. I would estimate that there is a very high correlation of FTTP die-hard to Simon Hackett fanboi. It will be funny to watch Whirlpool chew on an HFC/FTTP/FTTN plan endorsed by Hackett. SIMON! YOU'RE CHEATING ON ME! During the election, Turnbull wrote at length about CVC charges and correctly identified that an uncapped 1gbps service would cost $20K a month in wholesale fees and charges. Hackett is also an outspoken critic of the CVC charges as well. The only reason the NBN is affordable at all at the moment is that the rollout was so ballsed up that no single service area has enough connections so all the RSPs get a 100% CVC rebate. The entire financial edifice of the NBN is built upon a legally mandated monopoly funded by extortionate network access charges for the RSPs. It will be interesting to see how they address that as they're on the record as calling it out. David. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6773 - Release Date: 10/22/13
RE: NBN Petition
I'm confused. What WOULD a dedicated gigabit connection cost under the NBN? On Nov 12, 2013 5:10 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: It was deceptive rubbish. He implied that it would cost $20,000 for every household. It’s a blatant lie. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Tuesday, 12 November 2013 5:58 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 15:51, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. There is nothing incorrect in what he said, 1gbps flat chat is $20K a month wholesale. End of story. More over, that's *significantly more expensive* than what you can buy today. If Joe Punter uses less, great for him, but a school or a SME might want to use more. It begs the question, what is the average the NBN is designed for? Any sort of application that involves bulk data transfers is out of bounds cost wise - which is somewhat ironic. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. CVC and IP Transit are *completely different things*. NBN Co doesn't even sell IP Transit. You need to pay for both. And you pay CVC even if the data is 'on net' and never leaves your RSP (i.e. watching the TV or downloading freezone). CVC isn't going to go down ever because there is no incentive for it to as competitive technologies are outlawed (except for LTE, etc) David.
RE: NBN Petition
Not $20,000. There is a difference between dedicated and a continuous 1Gbps stream of data A number of CVC lines are purchased. Data transmission is spread over the entire lot. If you look at international prices, 1Gbps costs around $105 per month. In Japan, it is possible to get a 2Gbps connection for $20 per month. So why would Australia cost $20,000 per month? Ridiculous. No one would purchase it. So they would be forced to lower prices to a point where they'd get people to open their wallets. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 6:14 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition I'm confused. What WOULD a dedicated gigabit connection cost under the NBN? On Nov 12, 2013 5:10 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: It was deceptive rubbish. He implied that it would cost $20,000 for every household. It's a blatant lie. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 5:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 15:51, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won't cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. There is nothing incorrect in what he said, 1gbps flat chat is $20K a month wholesale. End of story. More over, that's significantly more expensive than what you can buy today. If Joe Punter uses less, great for him, but a school or a SME might want to use more. It begs the question, what is the average the NBN is designed for? Any sort of application that involves bulk data transfers is out of bounds cost wise - which is somewhat ironic. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-P rojected.php http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Pr ojected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. CVC and IP Transit are completely different things. NBN Co doesn't even sell IP Transit. You need to pay for both. And you pay CVC even if the data is 'on net' and never leaves your RSP (i.e. watching the TV or downloading freezone). CVC isn't going to go down ever because there is no incentive for it to as competitive technologies are outlawed (except for LTE, etc) David.
RE: NBN Petition
To clarify the two viewpoints: A 1gbps link is $20k a month. or A 1gbps link capped to X gig of downloads then shaped to Y kbps is not $20k a month. NBNCo has not been transparent to the average user that they are getting the latter and not the former. Fast links with tight quotas are what they are economically turning the industry to. As an interesting thought experiment ... Would you prefer TPG 100mbps unlimited data service today or an NBN 1000mbps service with 100gig quota in the future? Turnbull was right to illustrate the point and it is a point Malone, Teoh, Telstra, Hackett etc are all on the same page on. Hopefully the new board will fix it. I am significantly more optimistic on their chances of building something usable after seeing the appointments this morning. On 12 Nov 2013 17:10, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: It was deceptive rubbish. He implied that it would cost $20,000 for every household. It’s a blatant lie. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Tuesday, 12 November 2013 5:58 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 15:51, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. There is nothing incorrect in what he said, 1gbps flat chat is $20K a month wholesale. End of story. More over, that's *significantly more expensive* than what you can buy today. If Joe Punter uses less, great for him, but a school or a SME might want to use more. It begs the question, what is the average the NBN is designed for? Any sort of application that involves bulk data transfers is out of bounds cost wise - which is somewhat ironic. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. CVC and IP Transit are *completely different things*. NBN Co doesn't even sell IP Transit. You need to pay for both. And you pay CVC even if the data is 'on net' and never leaves your RSP (i.e. watching the TV or downloading freezone). CVC isn't going to go down ever because there is no incentive for it to as competitive technologies are outlawed (except for LTE, etc) David.
RE: NBN Petition
The price in other countries seems irrelevant. Those conditions don't exist here, otherwise the service would exist already, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, given the distinction you've created between 'dedicated' and 'continuous' what would the prices be for those two different types of services under the NBN? On Nov 12, 2013 5:18 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Not $20,000. There is a difference between “dedicated” and “a continuous 1Gbps stream of data” A number of CVC lines are purchased. Data transmission is spread over the entire lot. If you look at international prices, 1Gbps costs around $105 per month. In Japan, it is possible to get a 2Gbps connection for $20 per month. So why would Australia cost $20,000 per month? Ridiculous. No one would purchase it. So they would be forced to lower prices to a point where they’d get people to open their wallets. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Cooney *Sent:* Tuesday, 12 November 2013 6:14 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: NBN Petition I'm confused. What WOULD a dedicated gigabit connection cost under the NBN? On Nov 12, 2013 5:10 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: It was deceptive rubbish. He implied that it would cost $20,000 for every household. It’s a blatant lie. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Tuesday, 12 November 2013 5:58 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 15:51, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won’t cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. There is nothing incorrect in what he said, 1gbps flat chat is $20K a month wholesale. End of story. More over, that's *significantly more expensive* than what you can buy today. If Joe Punter uses less, great for him, but a school or a SME might want to use more. It begs the question, what is the average the NBN is designed for? Any sort of application that involves bulk data transfers is out of bounds cost wise - which is somewhat ironic. On top of this, CVC charges will have to come down over time due to economy of scale. See: http://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-Projected.php Historically, transit pricing has dropped by around 1/3rd every year since 1998. CVC and IP Transit are *completely different things*. NBN Co doesn't even sell IP Transit. You need to pay for both. And you pay CVC even if the data is 'on net' and never leaves your RSP (i.e. watching the TV or downloading freezone). CVC isn't going to go down ever because there is no incentive for it to as competitive technologies are outlawed (except for LTE, etc) David.
RE: NBN Petition
The price in other countries seems irrelevant. Those conditions don't exist here, otherwise the service would exist already, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Really? Are you saying that a global economy no longer matters? Wow, astounding. Maybe they should build a fence around Australia to keep the rest of the world out - they are a bit of a pain, after all. To answer your question in an appropriate way given the ongoing political response to this deceptive line is that the cost for a deceptive Liberal Party suggested single CVC that nobody would ever want, including most businesses is $20,000 (maybe - I haven't actually seen this figure anywhere other than Malcolm's comment). He's absolutely right in that no individual home would want one because it is a ridiculous political assertion. (Mind you, this is what is supposed to be in the NBN plan - The NBNCo Corporate Plan contains these examples on page 67: * The 1Gbps AVC price will fall from $150 to $90 (40% decrease) while the average speed increases from 30Mbps to 230Mbps (760% increase) * CVC pricing starts at $20Mbps/month when average data usage is 30GB/month and falls to $8/Mbps/month when average data usage is 540GB/month. Price falls by 2.5 times, while the average data usage grows by 18 times, which means 720% growth in revenue from CVC when accounting for price falls. ) Or I believe I read in the draft NBN document that they were intending the wholesale price to be $150 per month for a 1Gbps FTTH connection in Australia. So the least deceptive answer is that you could have a 1Gbps connection for $150 per month plus the cost of the ISP service. They didn't broadcast the fact because they assumed that everyone would expect the same behaviour that they are getting from just about every single internet connection in the country at the moment, and that is, you are likely to get speeds of 1Gbps from your ISP and then you'll share a pipe to the rest of the net with the other customers of the ISP. Given that FTTN is going to suffer the exact same issue, do you think Malcolm Turnbull is going to stand on a podium and declare that there is also going to be capping or shaping within the new FTTN network? Oh, right, I forgot, they're untouchable. Here is Simon Hackett's preference, by the way. I believe it's pro fibre: http://simonhackett.com/2013/07/17/nbn-fibre-on-a-copper-budget/ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 6:26 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition The price in other countries seems irrelevant. Those conditions don't exist here, otherwise the service would exist already, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, given the distinction you've created between 'dedicated' and 'continuous' what would the prices be for those two different types of services under the NBN? On Nov 12, 2013 5:18 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Not $20,000. There is a difference between dedicated and a continuous 1Gbps stream of data A number of CVC lines are purchased. Data transmission is spread over the entire lot. If you look at international prices, 1Gbps costs around $105 per month. In Japan, it is possible to get a 2Gbps connection for $20 per month. So why would Australia cost $20,000 per month? Ridiculous. No one would purchase it. So they would be forced to lower prices to a point where they'd get people to open their wallets. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 6:14 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition I'm confused. What WOULD a dedicated gigabit connection cost under the NBN? On Nov 12, 2013 5:10 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: It was deceptive rubbish. He implied that it would cost $20,000 for every household. It's a blatant lie. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2013 5:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 12 November 2013 15:51, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] That is a typically deceptive political response and is a load of complete Liberal Party BS and Malcolm Turnbull lost any credibility he had with me when he said it. It won't cost $20,000 a month for ANY household. A single household never needs a continuous stream of data getting a maximum of 1Gbps at all times, so it is shared among a whole bunch a households. So a single CVC line might be split between 10 to 20 houses. There is nothing incorrect in what he said, 1gbps flat chat is $20K a month
