Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Tom P]

What do the seniors here look for on a CV? I've been told by a few people I
should be giving myself a score out of 10 for competency in a particular
language/technology but I find it quite hard to do that and have it
actually mean anything.

Thanks
Tom

On 7 June 2016 at 10:22, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
>> "expert" when I was looking.
>>
>
> Oh hell! I'll never work again -- *GK*
>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Stephen Price]

Makes me think of pancakes. ...


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  on behalf 
of Tony Wright 
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2016 9:32:13 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Looking for work


If you can do everything, you are now a full stack developer. That tells people 
you can do more than build a Web page.

On 7 Jun 2016 11:26 AM, "Stephen Price" 
> wrote:

I've actually wondered about this myself. The roles I go for are the .Net 
roles. Generally speaking, my role is ".Net Developer" due to the C# .Net being 
the main skill required, but its rarely all you do. Javascript is a big 
component these days, and as it's been pointed out, so many client side 
technologies to choose from (most not Microsoft).

So will there come a day where we no longer call ourselves .Net developers? 
There has always been a gap between web developers and .Net developers both in 
skill set and rates of pay. I suspect web developers (technology wise) have 
caught up or are catching up. (in both areas?)

A simple static website is one thing, but an actual web application requires a 
lot of skill. No difference to the backend stuff.

I've also struggled with MVC being the right fit for web applications now. I'm 
working on my own project on the side and what started as MVC is now pretty 
much a SPA hosted in the MVC framework. If I was to start it over now, I'd make 
it an Angular 2 front end with WebAPI (because I know C#) for the backend. Will 
that change down the track? Perhaps the backend could end up something non .Net 
like node or something. Suddenly I'm no longer a Microsoft developer... so what 
do I call myself?


cheers

Stephen


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
> on behalf 
of Michael Ridland >
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2016 9:15:42 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Looking for work


I find it strange that there wouldn't be many jobs with MVC, there must be a 
large amount of codebases still using MVC?

Thanks


Michael Ridland | Technical Director | Xamarin MVP

XAM Consulting - Mobile Technology Specialists

www.xam-consulting.com

Blog: www.michaelridland.com


On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Tom P 
> wrote:
Server side code like MVC are my strengths but it seems nobody cares for that 
any more. I'm stuck in 2011 it seems.

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Greg Low (??) 
> wrote:
Hey Tom,

Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then anyone 
that knows of something can let you know.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile? 
+61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Tom P
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
To: ozDotNet 
Subject: Re: [OT] Looking for work

No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps then.

Thanks
Tom

On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  wrote:
I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS 
"expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even reaching 
that stage?

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:
Hi folks,

I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very desperate 
now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send through.

Thanks
Tom




--
Thanks
Tom

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Tony Wright]

If you can do everything, you are now a full stack developer. That tells
people you can do more than build a Web page.
On 7 Jun 2016 11:26 AM, "Stephen Price"  wrote:

> I've actually wondered about this myself. The roles I go for are the .Net
> roles. Generally speaking, my role is ".Net Developer" due to the C# .Net
> being the main skill required, but its rarely all you do. Javascript is a
> big component these days, and as it's been pointed out, so many client side
> technologies to choose from (most not Microsoft).
>
> So will there come a day where we no longer call ourselves .Net
> developers? There has always been a gap between web developers and .Net
> developers both in skill set and rates of pay. I suspect web developers
> (technology wise) have caught up or are catching up. (in both areas?)
>
> A simple static website is one thing, but an actual web application
> requires a lot of skill. No difference to the backend stuff.
>
> I've also struggled with MVC being the right fit for web applications now.
> I'm working on my own project on the side and what started as MVC is now
> pretty much a SPA hosted in the MVC framework. If I was to start it over
> now, I'd make it an Angular 2 front end with WebAPI (because I know C#) for
> the backend. Will that change down the track? Perhaps the backend could end
> up something non .Net like node or something. Suddenly I'm no longer a
> Microsoft developer... so what do I call myself?
>
>
> cheers
>
> Stephen
> --
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  on
> behalf of Michael Ridland 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 7 June 2016 9:15:42 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Looking for work
>
>
> I find it strange that there wouldn't be many jobs with MVC, there must be
> a large amount of codebases still using MVC?
>
> Thanks
>
> *Michael Ridland | Technical Director | Xamarin MVP*
>
> XAM Consulting - Mobile Technology Specialists
>
> www.xam-consulting.com
>
> Blog: www.michaelridland.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Tom P  wrote:
>
>> Server side code like MVC are my strengths but it seems nobody cares for
>> that any more. I'm stuck in 2011 it seems.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Greg Low (罗格雷格博士)  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Tom,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then
>>> anyone that knows of something can let you know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr Greg Low
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913
>>> fax
>>>
>>> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom P
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
>>> *To:* ozDotNet 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Looking for work
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps
>>> then.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  wrote:
>>>
>>> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an
>>> AngularJS "expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not
>>> even reaching that stage?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
>>> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
>>> through.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks
>> Tom
>>
>>
>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Michael Ridland]

I've built many application with Angular so I know what it is.

I was referring to the fact majority of development is done on existing
system, people cannot rebuild large systems overnight??




*Michael Ridland | Technical Director | Xamarin MVP*

XAM Consulting - Mobile Technology Specialists

www.xam-consulting.com

Blog: www.michaelridland.com



On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Tony Wright  wrote:

> Angular does mvc entirely on the client. You don't even need mvc on the
> server anymore. The only thing you do with the server is interact with
> webapi, which is were all the server-side business logic resides.
>
> Some places use JavaScript libraries that only implement the view part of
> mvc, so you can still use server side mvc, but you will need one of those
> JavaScript libraries if you want to go down that path. React is an example
> of this.
>
> There are also other ways now that you implement continuous integration,
> compression etc. Some people on here have hinted on that, with references
> to gulp and Sass and various other intermediate processes, and even the new
> visual code ide can work with those.
>
> It turns out that one of the strengths of visual studio, having all these
> tools integrated, is now one of its weaknesses, in that because it doesn't
> use an accessible pipeline it can't adapt quickly when new processes are
> invented.
>
> If you want an example of a modem enterprise architecture, I would
> recommend you take a look at asp.net boilerplate, (google it) which is a
> framework I used on my last project. (Unfortunately I think it is still
> angular 1, but it is still worth a look)
>
> T.
> On 7 Jun 2016 11:07 AM, "Tom P"  wrote:
>
>> Server side code like MVC are my strengths but it seems nobody cares for
>> that any more. I'm stuck in 2011 it seems.
>>
>> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Greg Low (罗格雷格博士)  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Tom,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then
>>> anyone that knows of something can let you know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr Greg Low
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913
>>> fax
>>>
>>> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom P
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
>>> *To:* ozDotNet 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Looking for work
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps
>>> then.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  wrote:
>>>
>>> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an
>>> AngularJS "expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not
>>> even reaching that stage?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
>>> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
>>> through.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks
>> Tom
>>
>>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Stephen Price]

I've actually wondered about this myself. The roles I go for are the .Net 
roles. Generally speaking, my role is ".Net Developer" due to the C# .Net being 
the main skill required, but its rarely all you do. Javascript is a big 
component these days, and as it's been pointed out, so many client side 
technologies to choose from (most not Microsoft).

So will there come a day where we no longer call ourselves .Net developers? 
There has always been a gap between web developers and .Net developers both in 
skill set and rates of pay. I suspect web developers (technology wise) have 
caught up or are catching up. (in both areas?)

A simple static website is one thing, but an actual web application requires a 
lot of skill. No difference to the backend stuff.

I've also struggled with MVC being the right fit for web applications now. I'm 
working on my own project on the side and what started as MVC is now pretty 
much a SPA hosted in the MVC framework. If I was to start it over now, I'd make 
it an Angular 2 front end with WebAPI (because I know C#) for the backend. Will 
that change down the track? Perhaps the backend could end up something non .Net 
like node or something. Suddenly I'm no longer a Microsoft developer... so what 
do I call myself?


cheers

Stephen


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  on behalf 
of Michael Ridland 
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2016 9:15:42 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Looking for work


I find it strange that there wouldn't be many jobs with MVC, there must be a 
large amount of codebases still using MVC?

Thanks


Michael Ridland | Technical Director | Xamarin MVP

XAM Consulting - Mobile Technology Specialists

www.xam-consulting.com

Blog: www.michaelridland.com


On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Tom P 
> wrote:
Server side code like MVC are my strengths but it seems nobody cares for that 
any more. I'm stuck in 2011 it seems.

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Greg Low (??) 
> wrote:
Hey Tom,

Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then anyone 
that knows of something can let you know.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile? 
+61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Tom P
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
To: ozDotNet 
Subject: Re: [OT] Looking for work

No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps then.

Thanks
Tom

On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  wrote:
I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS 
"expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even reaching 
that stage?

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:
Hi folks,

I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very desperate 
now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send through.

Thanks
Tom




--
Thanks
Tom

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Tony Wright]

Angular does mvc entirely on the client. You don't even need mvc on the
server anymore. The only thing you do with the server is interact with
webapi, which is were all the server-side business logic resides.

Some places use JavaScript libraries that only implement the view part of
mvc, so you can still use server side mvc, but you will need one of those
JavaScript libraries if you want to go down that path. React is an example
of this.

There are also other ways now that you implement continuous integration,
compression etc. Some people on here have hinted on that, with references
to gulp and Sass and various other intermediate processes, and even the new
visual code ide can work with those.

It turns out that one of the strengths of visual studio, having all these
tools integrated, is now one of its weaknesses, in that because it doesn't
use an accessible pipeline it can't adapt quickly when new processes are
invented.

If you want an example of a modem enterprise architecture, I would
recommend you take a look at asp.net boilerplate, (google it) which is a
framework I used on my last project. (Unfortunately I think it is still
angular 1, but it is still worth a look)

T.
On 7 Jun 2016 11:07 AM, "Tom P"  wrote:

> Server side code like MVC are my strengths but it seems nobody cares for
> that any more. I'm stuck in 2011 it seems.
>
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Greg Low (罗格雷格博士)  wrote:
>
>> Hey Tom,
>>
>>
>>
>> Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then
>> anyone that knows of something can let you know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr Greg Low
>>
>>
>>
>> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913
>> fax
>>
>> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom P
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
>> *To:* ozDotNet 
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Looking for work
>>
>>
>>
>> No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps
>> then.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  wrote:
>>
>> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
>> "expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even
>> reaching that stage?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
>> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
>> through.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> Tom
>
>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Michael Ridland]

I find it strange that there wouldn't be many jobs with MVC, there must be
a large amount of codebases still using MVC?

Thanks

*Michael Ridland | Technical Director | Xamarin MVP*

XAM Consulting - Mobile Technology Specialists

www.xam-consulting.com

Blog: www.michaelridland.com



On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Tom P  wrote:

> Server side code like MVC are my strengths but it seems nobody cares for
> that any more. I'm stuck in 2011 it seems.
>
> On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Greg Low (罗格雷格博士)  wrote:
>
>> Hey Tom,
>>
>>
>>
>> Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then
>> anyone that knows of something can let you know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr Greg Low
>>
>>
>>
>> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913
>> fax
>>
>> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom P
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
>> *To:* ozDotNet 
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Looking for work
>>
>>
>>
>> No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps
>> then.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  wrote:
>>
>> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
>> "expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even
>> reaching that stage?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
>> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
>> through.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Thanks
> Tom
>
>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Tom P]

Server side code like MVC are my strengths but it seems nobody cares for
that any more. I'm stuck in 2011 it seems.

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Greg Low (罗格雷格博士)  wrote:

> Hey Tom,
>
>
>
> Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then
> anyone that knows of something can let you know.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
>
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913
> fax
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
>  [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
> ] *On
> Behalf Of *Tom P
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet  >
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] Looking for work
>
>
>
> No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps then.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  > wrote:
>
> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
> "expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even
> reaching that stage?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  > wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
> through.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Thanks
Tom

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[David Connors]

On Tue, 7 Jun 2016 at 10:09 Craig van Nieuwkerk  wrote:

> I agree with these points. It is slow enough to be unusable unless you are 
> *very
> *careful when designing the initial tables.
>

I am not sure what design is possible when you have one key and can select
by that key.

It is a hang over from v1 of Azure when the use case was everyone is going
to write the next Facepages or whatever.

Meanwhile in 2016, Azure SQL is well worth a look.

Yes, it costs more than 4 cents.

David.
-- 
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Tony Wright]

In the past you could ride the winning horse, which was Microsoft, and you
would almost always be in a job. I did this myself for 20 years. But in
about the last 5 years the market diversified away from Microsoft. Amazon
invented the cloud, smart phones became prolific and client side JavaScript
libraries became the new way everything is done in the Web world.

I also read a lot about people that thought they were too old now for IT
and nobody wanted them anymore. That's rubbish as far as I'm concerned.
Businesses will always hire people who have the latest greatest skills and
the experience that goes with it.

So 2 years ago I got a pluralsight subscription and learnt angular. And it
was eye opening and door opening. It is definitely a path worth taking for
people in the Microsoft world. Angular 2 will be even better.

You need to diversify to be relevant. Investigate the job market, figure
out what is in demand and make the transition.

The reason I recognised it changed was only because I saw it happen to my
dad when they went from mainframe to micro to pc. He was great on mainframe
and micro but couldn't really transition to pc, which left him in
unemployment for a significant period of time.

Things have changed and even Microsoft recognises it.

You need to adapt and keep up as well.

T.
On 7 Jun 2016 10:22 AM, "Greg Keogh"  wrote:

> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
>> "expert" when I was looking.
>>
>
> Oh hell! I'll never work again -- *GK*
>

RE: [OT] Looking for work

[罗格雷格博士]

Hey Tom,

Best to give us a clue on what you think your core strengths are. Then anyone 
that knows of something can let you know.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Tom P
Sent: Tuesday, 7 June 2016 10:17 AM
To: ozDotNet 
Subject: Re: [OT] Looking for work

No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps then.

Thanks
Tom

On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C 
> wrote:
I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS 
"expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even reaching 
that stage?

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P 
> wrote:
Hi folks,

I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very desperate 
now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send through.

Thanks
Tom

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Greg Keogh]

>
> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
> "expert" when I was looking.
>

Oh hell! I'll never work again -- *GK*

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Greg Keogh]

>
> And here is a list of caveats for table storage:
>
Depending which side of the mirror you're looking through, many of your
caveats may be considered blessings, especially the "no enforced schema".
The absence of the features you listed is what makes the ATS API so
mercifully simple and useful in *certain scenarios*. Pick the right tool
for the job.

As a technical FYI aside: Over the last few weekends I converted a SQL Db
with 20 tables ranging from a dozen to 6 rows into Azure Tables. Almost
all of the work was done by T4 template generated code. I put the schema of
the tables and their joins into an Excel sheet and the T4 templates read it
to generate all the CRUD classes. I effectively wrote a weird mutated EF
for Azure tables (maybe there could be market for that?!). The generated
code even simulates joins so you can "deep load" an entity if you want. It
was just a technical exercise, but it's actually working and performing so
well that I think I'm going to drop the original SQL DB.

I would never have dared try that experiment on an app database requiring
the concurrency and high-performance that RDBs deliver.

*GK*

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Tom P]

No interviews in three months. I'll look into an Angular cert perhaps then.

Thanks
Tom

On 7 June 2016 at 10:15, Bec C  wrote:

> I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
> "expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even
> reaching that stage?
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
>> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
>> through.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Tom
>>
>
>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[Bec C]

I had a tough time down there too. Everywhere seemed to want an AngularJS
"expert" when I was looking. Are you getting interviews or not even
reaching that stage?

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
> through.
>
> Thanks
> Tom
>

Re: [OT] Looking for work

[DotNet Dude]

Send through your CV and I'll try to hook you up

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Tom P  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
> desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
> through.
>
> Thanks
> Tom
>

[OT] Looking for work

[Tom P]

Hi folks,

I've really had a tough time finding work in Melbourne. Getting very
desperate now. If anyone knows of a junior-intermediate role please send
through.

Thanks
Tom

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Craig van Nieuwkerk]

I agree with these points. It is slow enough to be unusable unless you
are *very
*careful when designing the initial tables.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:46 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 at 23:00 Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>> I forgot to mention ... don't forget Azure Table Storage! I've been
>> really loving it recently and using it where a SQL Db would be overkill.
>> The API is dead simple, vast capacity, cheap, and build and runtime
>> dependencies are trivial -- *GregK*
>>
>
> Here is a list of good things about table storage:
>
>-
>
> And here is a list of caveats for table storage:
>
>
>- No support for complex queries.
>- Indexes only exist as clustered indexes on the primary key.
>- No support for computed aggregates.
>- No support for joins.
>- No support for server-side stored procedures.
>- No ACLs support so security trimming must be done manually in the
>application logic.
>- No enforced schema or types. Tables may vary shape on a row-by-row
>basis.
>- No support for transactions.
>
>  And slow.
>
> David.
>
>
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Bec C]

Perfect for the government then lol

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:46 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 at 23:00 Greg Keogh  wrote:
>
>> I forgot to mention ... don't forget Azure Table Storage! I've been
>> really loving it recently and using it where a SQL Db would be overkill.
>> The API is dead simple, vast capacity, cheap, and build and runtime
>> dependencies are trivial -- *GregK*
>>
>
> Here is a list of good things about table storage:
>
>-
>
> And here is a list of caveats for table storage:
>
>
>- No support for complex queries.
>- Indexes only exist as clustered indexes on the primary key.
>- No support for computed aggregates.
>- No support for joins.
>- No support for server-side stored procedures.
>- No ACLs support so security trimming must be done manually in the
>application logic.
>- No enforced schema or types. Tables may vary shape on a row-by-row
>basis.
>- No support for transactions.
>
>  And slow.
>
> David.
>
>
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[David Connors]

On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 at 23:00 Greg Keogh  wrote:

> I forgot to mention ... don't forget Azure Table Storage! I've been really
> loving it recently and using it where a SQL Db would be overkill. The API
> is dead simple, vast capacity, cheap, and build and runtime dependencies
> are trivial -- *GregK*
>

Here is a list of good things about table storage:

   -

And here is a list of caveats for table storage:


   - No support for complex queries.
   - Indexes only exist as clustered indexes on the primary key.
   - No support for computed aggregates.
   - No support for joins.
   - No support for server-side stored procedures.
   - No ACLs support so security trimming must be done manually in the
   application logic.
   - No enforced schema or types. Tables may vary shape on a row-by-row
   basis.
   - No support for transactions.

 And slow.

David.


-- 
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Greg Keogh]

>
> Greg, am I correct in thinking azure table storage is only a cheaper
> option when the number of reads is light? Preet mentions he will need
> reporting and depending on how heavy those are hit azure table storage
> could get expensive.
>

Hmmm! I'm not sure as my demands have only reached the scale of "small
office app". I have not investigated if the transfer costs can be
significant over the storage costs when you push it hard. If anyone has
actually pushed Azure Tables to industrial levels of usage, please let us
know how it went -- *GK*

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Bec C]

Greg, am I correct in thinking azure table storage is only a cheaper option
when the number of reads is light? Preet mentions he will need reporting
and depending on how heavy those are hit azure table storage could get
expensive.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but am
 open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
 when I last worked with it 5 years ago.

 This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the
 cloud and security is a very high consideration.

>>>
> I forgot to mention ... don't forget Azure Table Storage! I've been really
> loving it recently and using it where a SQL Db would be overkill. The API
> is dead simple, vast capacity, cheap, and build and runtime dependencies
> are trivial -- *GregK*
>
>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Greg Keogh]

>
> For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but am
>>> open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
>>> when I last worked with it 5 years ago.
>>>
>>> This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the
>>> cloud and security is a very high consideration.
>>>
>>
I forgot to mention ... don't forget Azure Table Storage! I've been really
loving it recently and using it where a SQL Db would be overkill. The API
is dead simple, vast capacity, cheap, and build and runtime dependencies
are trivial -- *GregK*

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Greg Keogh]

>
> It's seems to me that a restful one would be the simplest in terms of
> usage for all the clients (various tools and programs within the
> organisation).
>
> Personally I find them easier to work with when coding to them as clients,
> and I'll be writing the first client for this service too.
>

I thought that the basic idea of SOAP was great and enjoyed using it in
ASMX and the WCF basicHttp services for years. Using XML and a contract is
fundamentally simple and sensible idea (except the payloads were shocking
to look at). The wsdl and scvutil utilities generated all the plumbing for
you and it was all strongly typed. This is still a good choice for strictly
.NET clients and services, if you're luck enough to have them.

But now the "dis-integration" of mobile devices of different brands has
driven us to REST and JSON, and once again someone's hobby work or thesis
has become yet another standard (you can't have too many standards!).
Luckily there are nice libraries for various mobile platforms to make
consuming REST services quite easy.

Try creating an ASP.NET Web API project and building up your REST API. Then
good luck discovering how all the "secret plumbing
"
works (as I call it). These things are miracle ingredients once you know
how to use them:

ActionFilterAttribute
ExceptionFilterAttribute
HttpParameterBinding
AddQueryStringMapping

*Greg*

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Preet Sangha]

Thank you. I'll be managing the DB and it's a simple time recording store
that will be reported on using BI/Excel tools so practically trivial.

In terms of data a simple SQL Server Express/Local DB will be more that
enough - so I think a hosted SQL instance will be sufficient. Having spent
4 years doing BI stuff - this is definitely not a warehouse (;-)




regards,
Preet, in Auckland NZ


On 7 June 2016 at 00:08, DotNet Dude  wrote:

> AFAIK not much has changed. I've been out of the area for a while too.
>
> Start with web api and only go to wcf if web api is insufficient which I
> doubt it will be.
>
> DB side can depend on many things as you know like if you have an existing
> db you need to use, who manages the db (dba?), amount of data, more reads
> or more writes, table structure, etc. Azure SQL or (unlikely) another Azure
> storage mechanism may be an options.
>
>
> On Monday, 6 June 2016, Preet Sangha  wrote:
>
>> I've been out of .net Web stuff for many years and now need to build a
>> webservice with a sql backend. I've seen many posts on here from you guys
>> going web stuff and wondered if you could point me in the right direction
>> please?
>>
>> If I wanted to build .net based web cased service, would I need to use
>> WCF? Or is ASP.NET sufficient? If the latter what ASP.NET technology
>> should I be researching?
>>
>> For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but
>> am open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
>> when I last worked with it 5 years ago.
>>
>> This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the cloud
>> and security is a very high consideration.
>>
>> regards,
>> Preet, in Auckland NZ
>>
>>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[DotNet Dude]

AFAIK not much has changed. I've been out of the area for a while too.

Start with web api and only go to wcf if web api is insufficient which I
doubt it will be.

DB side can depend on many things as you know like if you have an existing
db you need to use, who manages the db (dba?), amount of data, more reads
or more writes, table structure, etc. Azure SQL or (unlikely) another Azure
storage mechanism may be an options.

On Monday, 6 June 2016, Preet Sangha  wrote:

> I've been out of .net Web stuff for many years and now need to build a
> webservice with a sql backend. I've seen many posts on here from you guys
> going web stuff and wondered if you could point me in the right direction
> please?
>
> If I wanted to build .net based web cased service, would I need to use
> WCF? Or is ASP.NET sufficient? If the latter what ASP.NET technology
> should I be researching?
>
> For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but am
> open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
> when I last worked with it 5 years ago.
>
> This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the cloud
> and security is a very high consideration.
>
> regards,
> Preet, in Auckland NZ
>
>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Preet Sangha]

It's seems to me that a restful one would be the simplest in terms of usage
for all the clients (various tools and programs within the organisation).

Personally I find them easier to work with when coding to them as clients,
and I'll be writing the first client for this service too.


regards,
Preet, in Auckland NZ


On 6 June 2016 at 23:46, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Have you decided on the style you need: SOAP and XML, or RESTful? -- *GK*
>
> On 6 June 2016 at 21:20, Preet Sangha  wrote:
>
>> I've been out of .net Web stuff for many years and now need to build a
>> webservice with a sql backend. I've seen many posts on here from you guys
>> going web stuff and wondered if you could point me in the right direction
>> please?
>>
>> If I wanted to build .net based web cased service, would I need to use
>> WCF? Or is ASP.NET sufficient? If the latter what ASP.NET technology
>> should I be researching?
>>
>> For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but
>> am open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
>> when I last worked with it 5 years ago.
>>
>> This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the cloud
>> and security is a very high consideration.
>>
>> regards,
>> Preet, in Auckland NZ
>>
>>
>

Re: Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Greg Keogh]

Have you decided on the style you need: SOAP and XML, or RESTful? -- *GK*

On 6 June 2016 at 21:20, Preet Sangha  wrote:

> I've been out of .net Web stuff for many years and now need to build a
> webservice with a sql backend. I've seen many posts on here from you guys
> going web stuff and wondered if you could point me in the right direction
> please?
>
> If I wanted to build .net based web cased service, would I need to use
> WCF? Or is ASP.NET sufficient? If the latter what ASP.NET technology
> should I be researching?
>
> For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but am
> open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
> when I last worked with it 5 years ago.
>
> This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the cloud
> and security is a very high consideration.
>
> regards,
> Preet, in Auckland NZ
>
>

Contemporary frameworks to use for restful web services with SQL backend

[Preet Sangha]

I've been out of .net Web stuff for many years and now need to build a
webservice with a sql backend. I've seen many posts on here from you guys
going web stuff and wondered if you could point me in the right direction
please?

If I wanted to build .net based web cased service, would I need to use WCF?
Or is ASP.NET sufficient? If the latter what ASP.NET technology should I be
researching?

For the DB I suspect the latest entity framework will be sufficient but am
open to ideas about other technologies that might not have been present
when I last worked with it 5 years ago.

This service will only be used in house, but might be housed in the cloud
and security is a very high consideration.

regards,
Preet, in Auckland NZ