RE: In praise of CSharpCodeProvider

[Katherine Moss]

PowerShell can also do that.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 7:35 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: In praise of CSharpCodeProvider

Folks, FYI -- on the weekend I hit the situation where I had lots of small 
pieces of similar code and I wanted it to configure their behaviour. I could 
have created a fancy set of parameters and more complicated code to apply them, 
but I decided the most desirable thing was to "script" the code. I've seen some 
apps and tools that compile C# source on-the-fly but I've never needed to do it 
myself until now. I thought it would be really difficult, but it's not. Here's 
the skeleton of my code:

var provider = new CSharpCodeProvider();
var parameters = new CompilerParameters();
parameters.GenerateInMemory = true;
parameters.ReferencedAssemblies.Add("System.Security.dll");
parameters.GenerateExecutable = false;
var results = provider.CompileAssemblyFromSource(parameters, mySourceCode);
if (results.Errors.HasErrors || results.Errors.HasWarnings) {
  /* do something with the error numbers and messages */
  return;
}
Type[] types = results.CompiledAssembly.GetTypes();

So you finish up with an in-memory Assembly and you can use reflection to get 
types and Invoke members. Don't forget to use dynamic on the reflected types to 
make your reflection code shorter and more readable.

Overall, the resulting code is a little bit fiddly, but it's a powerful 
technique that's overlooked by a lot of developers.

Greg K

I could use a hand updating some plugins for BlogEngine 2.9.

[Katherine Moss]

Hey all,
Are any of you guys familiar with BlogEngine.net?  If so, would you mind giving 
me a quick hand with something?  There are three different plugins I'm trying 
to install into my installation (version 2.9), and all of them fail, providing 
no error as to tell us the cause of said failure.  What I'm looking to do is 
update all of them to work with version 2.9, but I can't do this by myself 
because my coding has been put on hold for a while, but if I can get someone 
who knows what they're doing and can tell me what lines need to be added, 
deleted, whatever to make this work, hit me up, please.  Thanks so much!  By 
the way, the extensions I'm trying to add are :
Youtube Player
Social Publish
Facebook

RE: [OT] Machine restart lock-up

[Katherine Moss]

Now that's very confusing.  I'd update your BIOS if I were you, for Ide and 
SATA aren't the same.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 9:48 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Machine restart lock-up

Ah yes, the BIOS lists the devices as IDE, but they're really SATA, so I mix 
the acronymns -- Greg

On 31 December 2013 12:42, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Not that I know of, but I hope you mean ... SATA?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 3:55 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Machine restart lock-up

Folks, since I installed a fresh Windows 7 in a SanDisk 256GB SSD last weekend 
my machine has developed an irritating disease: It locks up when 
restarted/rebooted. Only by turning the power off and then back on will it 
restart. Unless the power is turned off, a restart locks up at the end of the 
list of IDE devices in the BIOS screen. The only hardware change since last 
week is the replacement of a 1TB HDD with the SSD, which resulted in some IDE 
cables moving around to different slots.

Before I start randomly moving cables around I thought I'd ask here just in 
case some hardware boffins might have seen this sort of thing before. Do SSD 
and HDD have to be in a certain physical cable order? Are the various IDE slots 
different?

Greg K

RE: [OT] Machine restart lock-up

[Katherine Moss]

Not that I know of, but I hope you mean ... SATA?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 3:55 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Machine restart lock-up

Folks, since I installed a fresh Windows 7 in a SanDisk 256GB SSD last weekend 
my machine has developed an irritating disease: It locks up when 
restarted/rebooted. Only by turning the power off and then back on will it 
restart. Unless the power is turned off, a restart locks up at the end of the 
list of IDE devices in the BIOS screen. The only hardware change since last 
week is the replacement of a 1TB HDD with the SSD, which resulted in some IDE 
cables moving around to different slots.

Before I start randomly moving cables around I thought I'd ask here just in 
case some hardware boffins might have seen this sort of thing before. Do SSD 
and HDD have to be in a certain physical cable order? Are the various IDE slots 
different?

Greg K

RE: ASMX vs SVC basicHtpBinding

[Katherine Moss]

Then where do ASMX and SVC services fit in these days?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Michael Ridland
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:55 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: ASMX vs SVC basicHtpBinding


WebAPI with JSON?
http://www.asp.net/web-api

Or if you want to have some fun you could use Node.js?

Or there's NancyFX?




On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Greg Keogh 
mailto:g...@mira.net>> wrote:
Folks, I recently had a write a few web services and I had the choice of using 
SVC with basicHttpBinding or the traditional ASMX Web Service. The services 
only need to behave like simple libraries, passing strings and simple class 
types back and forth. I've said before I think WCF is an overweight "beast" 
which is great if you need to change bindings or delicately configure its many 
settings (and you can figure out how to do it!), but I don't need any of that 
stuff so I decided to use ASMX because it's so much easier to code.

Does anyone know if my decision makes things easier or worse for non-.NET 
consumers? It looks like native apps on Android or iPhone might have to consume 
my services and I was wondering if my ASMX web services might irritate them. 
What is the preferred way of publishing a web service these days that makes 
things easy and "open" for various consumers? Maybe REST is preferred?!

Greg K

RE: [OT] Cookies cleanup

[Katherine Moss]

You guys are too facetious.  LOL.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 10:40 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Cookies cleanup

Nah he should totally get a chromebook. 😊

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎13‎ ‎December‎ ‎2013 ‎9‎:‎56‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet

Once you install: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux or 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X then you can uninstall IE ☺

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Friday, 13 December 2013 12:48 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Cookies cleanup

Best bet is to uninstall your browsers.

I challenge you to uninstall Internet Explorer! It won't help anyway, as 
they're transmitting ads into my brain while I'm asleep. Even the tin-foil 
around my head isn't helping -- Greg K

RE: [OT] Facebook advertising

[Katherine Moss]

I like that one, Greg.  Drives me crazy, though I just deal with it, for some 
ads, I actually do care about, just not on my social networks.,

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 7:03 PM
To: Paul Evrat; ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Facebook advertising

There's a name for it that I have forgotten ..

Insidious
Sinister
Devious
Scheming
Unscrupulous
Conspiracy
:

Greg

RE: [OT] Syslogd client

[Katherine Moss]

But the question you always have to ask is, how crippled is the Open Source 
version?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 7:16 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Syslogd client

Snare seems pretty popular in the commercial world - they have a free/open 
source version.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 29 November 2013 10:59 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Syslogd client

Anyone know of a free/opensource Windows client for using with a router that 
supports Syslogd?

cheers,
Stephen

RE: Is it time to open source Silverlight?

[Katherine Moss]

Why do you say that it is unsuitable for modern web?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Burela
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 2:26 AM
To: ozSilverlight; ozDotNet
Subject: Is it time to open source Silverlight?

http://davidburela.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/is-it-time-to-open-source-silverlight/

While I was at the MVP summit I started asking around about if it was time to 
open source Silverlight. My thoughts were if the technology is now considered 
"done" by Microsoft, then there are few reasons why it couldn't be released to 
the community to see what they can do with it.
It was a solid technology (which isn't suitable in the modern world of the 
public web), but still has a nice niche on desktop.
It could be interesting to see how the community extends it, and perhaps even 
put onto other platforms (like moonlight did).

A basic game engine could be an interesting direction, or using it to embed 
within desktop applications.
The point is, rather than let it rot internally at Microsoft, why not let the 
community go wild with it before it gets any more stale.

http://davidburela.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/is-it-time-to-open-source-silverlight/
-David Burela

RE: [OT] Going cloudy with metaballs

[Katherine Moss]

But you can’t forget about setting up domains for the sheer fun and hell of it. 
 Hell, that’s what I’m doing here at home; we don’t need it, at all.  It just 
makes me feel better and it also makes me more able to practice so that when my 
time comes, I’ll be ready to configure a business environment.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 8:15 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Going cloudy with metaballs



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Wednesday, 20 November 2013 11:53 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Going cloudy with metaballs

I guess my point is that unless you're a bank or whatever with 60K rank and 
file to control punitively who are all on the one phone platform, you probably 
shouldn't give a toss about domains.

I’d just like to point out that “AD domains” are used for a lot more things 
than just “punitively” controlling employees or devices – a couple of examples:

-Kerberos is still a widely trusted, robust, authentication mechanism, 
and AD-based Kerberos implementations constitute 99%+ of implementations 
worldwide. All others added together are a rounding error.

-Regulated environments (or environments where you have contractual 
obligations that are similar) have various information assurance requirements 
etc. Which means implementing various security protocols (like controlling 
physical access). Stuff like 802.1x or VPN technologies are relatively easy to 
deploy en-masse to managed devices (whether that’s Active Directory, or some 
other kind of device manager). Even when you allow people to BYOD, you can’t 
get away from external requirements, so you need to implement some other MDM 
tool/technologies to provide the necessary assurances.

-AD (or other management tools) are also about providing 
management/deployment/monitoring “at scale”. If you have 10 people working in 
your organisation, then who cares – you can do it manually, or rely on 
tech-savvy employees to manage their own devices. When you have lots of people 
(especially non-IT workers), you need automated tools.



Now, I don’t disagree with David’s points about cross-organisational 
collaboration AD trusts don’t work “across the internet”, so either you need 
VPN tunnels, or you use other standards (like SAML/ADFS).

Secondly, his point about AD not working for non-Windows devices is, partially 
correct. Organisations already have to deal with this internally (our many 
mainframes don’t integrate with AD for example) – so we use cross-platform 
tools (from vendors other than Microsoft). That’s not going to change – those 
tools already exist – they’ll just become a bit more ubiquitous



Basically, the less you are invested in the Microsoft ecosystem, the less 
benefit AD provides. However, the challenges of managing and maintaining an IT 
environment don’t magically go away. If you still have IT infrastructure and 
operations, you still need to manage these somehow. And the more you have, the 
more tools you need to automate this management. The alternative is to give 
pieces away to other providers, and make the management and monitoring their 
problem (aka give your email to Google or O365 in a SOHO scenario, or do more 
comprehensive outsourcing in a larger environment)



Cheers

Ken

RE: NBN Petition

[Katherine Moss]

Lol hnice.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Burstin
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 7:17 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: NBN Petition


On 05/11/2013 7:18 AM, "David Connors" 
mailto:da...@connors.com>> wrote:
>
> They ran a pretty big petition on the 7th of Sep.

I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Everyone who voted 
obviously agreed with every single policy of the party they voted for. 
Otherwise they would have just ticked the box that said "This is my preferred 
government but I don't agree with every one of their policies".

(Election == petition) == laughable.

I forget, but which API is used to develop against SQL Server, the one that allows people to create alternative interfaces for it.

[Katherine Moss]

Hi all,
I was curious about this because I've seen a couple of web products that 
basically create the Management studio in ASP.net or in some other interface.  
I forget which of Microsoft's APIs allows for that.  There are a couple of open 
source projects that need to be updated pertaining to this, and one of these 
days, I'd definitely like to take that on.  Can someone remind me which API is 
possibly being used?  I know that it's extensible, or else I wouldn't have seen 
what does exist out there, no matter how out-of-date.  

RE: Visual Studio 2013 and setup projects

[Katherine Moss]

Okay, two things.  How can .NET be dead if we still have ASP.net web sites 
being built daily?  And secondly, you're grandly missing something.  You forget 
that WiX is open source, and that there are nice editors for it right there on 
CodePlex and source forge.  Try WixEdit or ISWiX.  They don't have all of the 
eatures, though both are open source, so all of the developers here could take 
time to less-complicate things a bit in their spare time if they felt like it.  
I'd definitely do it if I had more time and if my development in C# and others 
was stronger.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 8:34 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Visual Studio 2013 and setup projects

It's simple. .Net is dead.

Long live the web!

On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 8:24 PM, Greg Keogh 
mailto:g...@mira.net>> wrote:
There are certainly a lot of rude comments about Flexera and Microsoft's 
disregard for developers requiring install software.

Indeed! I found a fair swag of angry comments from irritable and frustrated 
people and journals during searches later in the day. I ran haphazard searches 
for various relevant keywords and it's quite clear that something went weirdly 
askew with setup projects after VS2010. You just can't get a straight answer 
anywhere about why things changed in the way they did, or where things are 
going. Even the "official" pronouncements are all shallow and evasive. I'm an 
MSDN subscriber who tries to keep up with tech gossip in my spare time, and 
even I didn't realise the vdproj was dropped last year and here I am wondering 
where the hell it's all going now, and no one seems to know.

I even tried to find a clear description of the features (or limitations) of 
InstallShield Limited Edition without luck. All you can find in searches are 
pages of marketing bullshït telling you why you should upgrade to Professional, 
Ultimate or Cosmic editions.

I'll ask in the Wix forum what the truth is about VS2013 integration with their 
releases and let you know if I find anything useful.

Greg K

RE: In praise of T4 code generation

[Katherine Moss]

I've never really understood the purpose of T4, though now it makes more sense; 
I'll have to remember it when I return to my .NET programming in my spare time 
when I can.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 1:35 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: In praise of T4 code generation

I love T4 as well.

Thank heavens, I was starting to think I was a deviant. The first Tangible 
addons occasionally crashed on me too, but for the last year or more I've been 
keeping updated and can't recall any problems in that time, but, my demands are 
probably modest compared to yours -- Greg

RE: Kentico users?

[Katherine Moss]

I tried it as well, and found that it sort of broke the spirit of open source.  
And nor was I paying that much for something that should be open source in my 
mind.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:45 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Kentico users?


We used to. It is slow and expensive and hard to customise. We switched to 
WordPress.
On 7 Sep 2013 16:09, "Greg Keogh" mailto:g...@mira.net>> wrote:
Is anyone in this group using Kentico? -- Greg

RE: Silverlight on Windows 8

[Katherine Moss]

If .NET dies, then I'm leaving.  See you over at Novell HQ.  LOL

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:36 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Silverlight on Windows 8

Did someone say "Microsoft pile on" :D

Notes so far:

* Silverlight strategy shifted away from breadth to depth (Windows 8 only). 
Thus discontinued.

* Blend discontinued and strategy shifted back to depth developer ONLY 
engagement models. Assume any designer integration for future lifecycle 
development will happen in the same workflow / process as HTML5 solution 
delivery happens today (me designer hand you developer design, you developer 
screw up me designer work, me designer compromise, we all happy .. the end).

* Rename the entire .NET UX namespace(s) to ensure that no backwards 
compatibility outside the Portable Class Library will exist going forward thus 
adding a forcing function on developers to write new code and not bring old 
into the new. Some XAML code may be brought forward but with conditions applied.

* Release a brand new SDK for Windows 8 developers but ensure anyone on Windows 
7 cannot write or deploy code that makes use of this said codebase. Ensure that 
by doing this a forcing function around Windows 8 adoption not only occurs at 
the consumer level but also developer(s) as well (given how great developer 
relations have been to date, this will work out brilliantly).

* Create uncertainty in the market around what developers should and shouldn't 
be doing with their future bets, do not spend energy or time reminding 
developers that so long as Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8 exist so will 
WPF and Silverlight. Encourage HTML5/JS or C++/XAML adoption but offer no 
up-skilling or transition program(s) for pre-existing user base to move across 
other than Evangelists doing PowerPoint demos on "Look i made a game using 
Windows 8's & Internet Explorer"

* After 20yrs stop giving MSDN subscribers access to Windows RTM's and instead 
make them wait months after RTM for access outside of buying the said product 
or hitting thepiratebay torrent sites for access. Thus giving only real benefit 
or analysing actual adoption number(s) which in turn would reduce future 
ubiquity metric inflation .. honest.. but developers won't get to see as 
many "8.1" deployments as they need to thus the psychology of ubiquity plays 
out much in the way Silverlight on the web did when it first existed "I'll 
write code another time, maybe when everyone has a bigger install base"

* Hold back on Deploying Silverlight through Windows Update as needed item 
despite the Consent Decree expiration which in turn lifts the only argument the 
company faced around doing this. Thus reducing any chance of a ~90% or more 
ubiquity success in Windows marketshare and also creating a developer relations 
bridge between "Goodwill, keep adopting XAML/C#" and "Go jump in the HTML5 pool 
despite all the kids that have constantly pee'd in before you're initial jump"

* Highlight yet again how Scott Guthrie's influence over a complex problem such 
as Windows Azure has made a lot of gains despite the odds being stacked against 
them. Ensure all marketing talent that have to react to said technical work do 
everything they can to deter adoption from occurring.

:D

Yeah its a bit of "kick the sick puppy" moment but I look back on the last 2-3 
years and I shake my head... technically nothing really is a problem persay in 
that people aren't shaking their fists and arguing over what technically is 
offer they are merely arguing over two sets of problems - "Why are you not 
letting this piece of technical work over here work with that over there" and 
"why do i feel alone in my adoption choices more and more..."

Australia once had the highest SAT levels for .NET adoption.. i'd be curious to 
see what that data looks like today :D





---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 1:16 PM, David Kean 
mailto:david.k...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
At release, only certain sites were allowed to use flash. They backed down on 
that and opened it up to all sites based on telemetry.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:10 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Silverlight on Windows 8

Seriously? What happened to the "No Plug ins" ???

Wow. Microsoft, you really know how to do a number on your tech. You want 
something gone, you don't mess about. The smoking gun is still in your hand!

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Joseph Cooney 
mailto:joseph.coo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yep. Supports flash but not Silverlight.
On 28 Aug 2013 11:40, "Bill McCarthy" 
mailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au>> wrote:
I thought it does support flash

|-Original Message-
|From: ozdotnet-boun...

RE: MSDN Azure Benefits & Aston Martin

[Katherine Moss]

You guys are lucky; how the heck do you afford MSDN?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 4:25 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: MSDN Azure Benefits & Aston Martin

On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 5:03 PM, GregAtGregLowDotCom 
mailto:g...@greglow.com>> wrote:
To encourage people to do it, there’s a competition to win an Aston Martin 
which might be worth a shot. I’ve put details here: 
http://sqlblog.com/blogs/greg_low/archive/2013/08/15/are-you-using-the-azure-benefits-in-your-msdn-subscription-like-an-aston-martin.aspx

Pfft. 
http://www.designboom.com/design/3d-printed-aston-martin-db4-replica-by-ivan-sentch/

I'll just print one if I need one.

RE: php help

[Katherine Moss]

Try PHP on Phalanger.  It's PHP running on the .net framework.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 12:39 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: php help

I would help if I knew php

Anthony
Melbourne StuffUps.learn from others, share with others!
http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/


--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is 
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is 
strictly prohibited. 
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by 
reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. 
(*13POrtC*)

--- 

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin
Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013 2:37 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: php help

hi.
i am a blind student, doing a diploma of website development from 
http://wsi.tafensw.edu.au, and doing a contact centre management system.
i use the jaws for windows screen reader from http://www.freedomscientific.com 
and wondering, any php and my sql gurus.
using xammp, firefox 22, windows 7 professional.
my site is:
http://marvinhunkin.bmitafeweb.com
can some one who is in australia.
help me out with the php.
and help me out with some errors.
thanks.
marvin.
ps: have got one record for the three tables.
also. do i need another page, saying forgot password.
did find a change password script online.
marvin.

RE: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

[Katherine Moss]

I have a bing preference.  And thanks for the NSA blocking reminders; I'll 
remember to set up IP and domain restrictions and block any IPs that come from 
the government LOL.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of ifum...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 8:46 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

Just block them..Google are becoming too powerful and hope to see a new player 
soon , maybe one that is decentralised.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Monday, 22 July 2013 10:30 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

But if you can't be found on a search engine, who's going to come to your site? 
  Word of mouth isn't how you get most traffic.  If you cut out the 52% of 
search engine bots, the other 48% won't know you exist.

I haven't blocked Google, I hope, but I did block Googlebot-Image which was all 
over me -- Greg

RE: [OT] Deleting an Azure VM

[Katherine Moss]

Nasty designers on Microsoft's part then huh?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 11:35 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Deleting an Azure VM

D'oh ... it turns out there is a link in the Azure portal Virtual machines tab 
titled "DISKS" (grey and easy to miss). If you go into that screen you can 
manage (and delete) the images associated with virtual machines. Once I did so 
it unlocked the storage account and I could delete it as well. So I've cleaned 
everything up and will have another bash at making a VM, maybe from the Gallery 
this time -- Greg

RE: Here's a thought: give them to devs.

[Katherine Moss]

What about Using PowerShell; "Show-developerLicense"?  I installed an RSS 
reader in here that way; though I have absolutely no qualms with installing 
random certs in my computer's store, especially those that come from codePlex; 
anyone who's on there's on our side.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:29 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Here's a thought: give them to devs.
Or make the license for side loading apps free, the tablets are awesome but one 
has to either go to app store or pay 3k for 100 sideloadable licenses.

It is like having an Apple, where one has no choice for development. All the 
tools are there but no vision for developers. Didn't Ballmer said "Developers, 
developers, developers"?


On 21 July 2013 11:56, mike smith 
mailto:meski...@gmail.com>> wrote:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/07/19/013/microsoft-is-sitting-on-six-million-unsold-surface-tablets

--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Moving ASP.net applications between servers and development machines.

[Katherine Moss]

Hi,
I've got a slight issue here where I have my existing web site which runs on 
ASP.net.  I want to do a couple things to it.  
One: I want to be able to recompile the entire framework to use .NET 4.5 
instead of 4.0 (though the main developer's not down with that).  I know how to 
do this; take the developer package and just tell it to compile to the latest 
framework instead of the earlier one and then press F5 again, but the question 
is that the developer package and the deployment package are different, so what 
is the best way to incorporate my changes from the development environment into 
the production environment on my server (no source code) with as little work as 
possible?  And then without dumping source code on the server as well?  What I 
would think about doing is to compile the application again and then move the 
compiled folder into production from the development machine either by FTP or 
via manual upload if I'm that lazy.  The question though is whether that would 
be enough though.  Or is there something more I'd have to do?  
Then there's the problem of having a primary and backup server in two different 
locations.  Would I use Web Deploy for moving the application between the two 
IIS servers?  What about the nasty bug in Web Deploy that causes the IIS 
extension not to be able to deploy imported applications correctly?  What about 
the fact that the primary and backup server are running two different versions 
of IIS?  Is there a reliable way to do this to ensure that the backend database 
running behind the application stays in sync as well?  This is over a WAN 
connection between two opened ports.  Do you folks have any ideas?  Thanks.  

RE: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

[Katherine Moss]

Thank you.  I had been wondering; I unfortunately have to rebuild my web site 
tomorrow, but I think I'll make this new site use W3C instead of the IIS format.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 8:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

W3C is the standard. IIS defaults to using that. The IIS and NCSA format 
options are mainly there for backwards compatibility reasons.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 12:02 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

Speaking of IIS logs, what is the most commonly used log format?  I seem to be 
able to understand W3C more so than I can IIS; W3C seems to make it clearer 
what it going on.  Anyone else agree with me?  (though sooner rather than 
later, I won't have to worry about hand analysis because I'll hopefully install 
the free edition of SmarterStats on my server.)

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 3:46 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

Just a bit of Friday technical trivia that might warn others ...

I analysed all of the 2013 data so far from my IIS web logs and found the 
following interesting facts:

robots.txt was read 11270 times
My total sent bytes was 10.2GB of which 5.3GB was searching engines and bots
143374 requests came from bots (%46 of the total)

So %52 of all traffic out of my web site was food for bots. I think this is an 
extraordinary volume of data and I have declared war on them. I found a sample 
robots.txt file on the web which looks quite comprehensive, then I added others 
ones I found in my logs. I installed the "IP Address and Domain Restrictions" 
Role to IIS 7.5 so I can totally block the worst offenders (I'm looking at you 
Ezooms and GoogleImages!).

It will be interesting to see how my web request stats change over the coming 
months. I think this "search engine" zoo is now well out of control in the wild.

So I've got charities and market researchers pestering me on the phone all day 
while my web server is pestered with a flood of bots.

Greg

RE: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

[Katherine Moss]

Speaking of IIS logs, what is the most commonly used log format?  I seem to be 
able to understand W3C more so than I can IIS; W3C seems to make it clearer 
what it going on.  Anyone else agree with me?  (though sooner rather than 
later, I won't have to worry about hand analysis because I'll hopefully install 
the free edition of SmarterStats on my server.)

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 3:46 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Search engines (not a complaint)

Just a bit of Friday technical trivia that might warn others ...

I analysed all of the 2013 data so far from my IIS web logs and found the 
following interesting facts:

robots.txt was read 11270 times
My total sent bytes was 10.2GB of which 5.3GB was searching engines and bots
143374 requests came from bots (%46 of the total)

So %52 of all traffic out of my web site was food for bots. I think this is an 
extraordinary volume of data and I have declared war on them. I found a sample 
robots.txt file on the web which looks quite comprehensive, then I added others 
ones I found in my logs. I installed the "IP Address and Domain Restrictions" 
Role to IIS 7.5 so I can totally block the worst offenders (I'm looking at you 
Ezooms and GoogleImages!).

It will be interesting to see how my web request stats change over the coming 
months. I think this "search engine" zoo is now well out of control in the wild.

So I've got charities and market researchers pestering me on the phone all day 
while my web server is pestered with a flood of bots.

Greg

RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

[Katherine Moss]

Oh darn.  Thanks.  I'll have to refine that a little bit.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Mark Hurd
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:27 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

BTW You might want to choose another name: Project Jenks does have a number of 
hits https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Project+Jenks

--
Regards,
Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.)

On 10 July 2013 22:38, Katherine Moss  wrote:
> I'll have to look into that if I find it fits my needs, though I think that 
> the Jenks Project needs to be open source if my plans for it are going to 
> work out the way I'd like.
>

RE: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some accounts work and others don't

[Katherine Moss]

Thanks.  I'm also checking all of the stored procedures; I think there is one 
for at least every action on the site (there are 697 of them).  I'll go to the 
forums if I cannot find what I'm looking for, though I know that this is very 
easy.  And I'm curious, if you don't use ASP.net membership built into the 
framework, then what on earth do you use for membership in ASP.net applications?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 8:31 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some 
accounts work and others don't

Hi Katherine,

I'll have to let someone else that uses that membership provider answer that 
one. I took one look at it when it was released and decided it wasn't for me. I 
felt like I was in a parallel universe. Everyone in the room was talking about 
how fast it was to build and I was looking at the methods, etc. and thinking 
"didn't they ever read any of the framework design guidelines?"

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2013 11:07 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some 
accounts work and others don't

That's the funny thing; when I try and retrieve the passwords for either of 
these two accounts, instead of having email directed to the local server (I 
don't have SmarterMail configured yet), I get the "we can't locate your 
account" message from Sueetie, then when I go to retrieve the user name of the 
account, I was able to get a temporary email sent to the local server (only for 
my account, and not the default administrator account), so figuring that the 
temp password expired since it wasn't working when Forms authentication had 
accidentally gotten shut off, I attempted to make another temporary password 
via the forgot user name link on the page.  It was then when my account got 
locked out.  Never happened before, and as far as I can tell, the default 
administrator account is nonexistent now.  But it is only these two accounts 
that are causing problems now; everyone elses works fine.  So my solution to 
this problem is instead of futzing around trying to figure out why these aren't 
working, I could make my friend an administrator and allow her to delete them 
and then recreate them.  (she's an admin anyway.)  But my problem is how to 
query the ASP.net membership tables in the database in order to ensure that the 
change gets replicated from database to site.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but 
this is the aspnet_roles table I'm looking to access, right?  And if so, what 
is the statement I would use to make this change?  (I'm very weak in 
Transact-SQL at the moment, but it's thanks to cool folks like you guys that I 
learn).  Looks like flipping forms authentication on and off really shuddered 
this thing.  Jees.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:03 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: RE: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some 
accounts work and others don't

Hi Katherine,

It's not saying that the account or the password are wrong. It's saying that 
the account is locked out. Is it set up to automatically unlock accounts after 
a period of time? Is there a flag in the database that holds the authentication 
details that says whether or not an account is locked?

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2013 1:57 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some 
accounts work and others don't


Hi guys,

This is driving me crazy.  I'm trying to fix my web site and the authentication 
modules.  I have since replaced the web.config file and some people are able to 
log into the site.  I cannot log in either as the main administrator with a 
user name of admin, or as my secondary account, yet my friend's able to log in 
just fine.  I get the following error message when trying to retrieve my user 

RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

[Katherine Moss]

I'll have to look into that if I find it fits my needs, though I think that the 
Jenks Project needs to be open source if my plans for it are going to work out 
the way I'd like.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Mark Hurd
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 10:22 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

"It's not truly hidden unless you go to great lengths to obfuscate it."

That's true except when you don't actually provide the software to the 
consumer. Software as a service makes it quite feasible to provide great 
technology without giving out the source or binary code.

--
Regards,
Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.)

On 9 July 2013 12:03, Stephen Price  wrote:
> ah ok. Only reason you would hide your code is if it is a secret, as 
> in part of your business intellectual property. An algorithm, or 
> whatever that no one else has, and that sets you apart from your 
> competition. It is important from a business perspective to keep 
> what's yours as yours. Arguably, I guess. That would be situations 
> where your income comes from your product and that people are prepared 
> to pay for it because no one else can do what your product does.
> You can make money from selling your time, or a product, or for 
> providing a service. When you say hiding your code I assume you mean 
> closed source versus open source. It's not truly hidden unless you go 
> to great lengths to obfuscate it. It's not a bad thing to want to 
> protect your IP. Same as its not a bad thing to want to have open 
> source code. Really depends what you are trying to do. As for making 
> money from coding, yeah there are numerous ways. There's apps in 
> market place, Ads, freeware, Shareware. In app purchases, and donations. 
> Contracting and Permanent jobs for someone else.
> Write a product or service and charge people to use it. All part of 
> the excitement and challenge of working as a developer. :) So yes I 
> agree there's more than hiding your code and charging for your stuff. 
> I do detect a hint of judgement or invalidation against hiding your 
> code and charging for it. It's not right or wrong, but thinking makes it so.
>
>

RE: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some accounts work and others don't

[Katherine Moss]

That's the funny thing; when I try and retrieve the passwords for either of 
these two accounts, instead of having email directed to the local server (I 
don't have SmarterMail configured yet), I get the "we can't locate your 
account" message from Sueetie, then when I go to retrieve the user name of the 
account, I was able to get a temporary email sent to the local server (only for 
my account, and not the default administrator account), so figuring that the 
temp password expired since it wasn't working when Forms authentication had 
accidentally gotten shut off, I attempted to make another temporary password 
via the forgot user name link on the page.  It was then when my account got 
locked out.  Never happened before, and as far as I can tell, the default 
administrator account is nonexistent now.  But it is only these two accounts 
that are causing problems now; everyone elses works fine.  So my solution to 
this problem is instead of futzing around trying to figure out why these aren't 
working, I could make my friend an administrator and allow her to delete them 
and then recreate them.  (she's an admin anyway.)  But my problem is how to 
query the ASP.net membership tables in the database in order to ensure that the 
change gets replicated from database to site.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but 
this is the aspnet_roles table I'm looking to access, right?  And if so, what 
is the statement I would use to make this change?  (I'm very weak in 
Transact-SQL at the moment, but it's thanks to cool folks like you guys that I 
learn).  Looks like flipping forms authentication on and off really shuddered 
this thing.  Jees.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:03 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: RE: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some 
accounts work and others don't

Hi Katherine,

It's not saying that the account or the password are wrong. It's saying that 
the account is locked out. Is it set up to automatically unlock accounts after 
a period of time? Is there a flag in the database that holds the authentication 
details that says whether or not an account is locked?

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2013 1:57 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some 
accounts work and others don't


Hi guys,

This is driving me crazy.  I'm trying to fix my web site and the authentication 
modules.  I have since replaced the web.config file and some people are able to 
log into the site.  I cannot log in either as the main administrator with a 
user name of admin, or as my secondary account, yet my friend's able to log in 
just fine.  I get the following error message when trying to retrieve my user 
name since the site can no longer locate my account:
Server Error in '/' Application.

The user account has been locked out.
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the 
current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about 
the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.Security.MembershipPasswordException: The user 
account has been locked out.

Source Error:
An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web 
request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be 
identified using the exception stack trace below.


Stack Trace:

[MembershipPasswordException: The user account has been locked out.]
   System.Web.Security.SqlMembershipProvider.ResetPassword(String username, 
String passwordAnswer) +1840
   System.Web.Security.MembershipUser.ResetPassword(String passwordAnswer) +145
   Sueetie.Web.ForgotUsernamePage.AddBody(MailMessage _msg, SueetieUser _user) 
+507
   Sueetie.Web.ForgotUsernamePage.SendEmail_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) 
+277
   System.Web.UI.WebControls.Button.RaisePostBackEvent(String eventArgument) 
+154
   System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain(Boolean includeStagesBeforeAsyncPoint, 
Boolean includeStagesAfterAsyncPoint) +3707




Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:4.0.30319; ASP.NET 
Version:4.0.30319.272

I'm trying not to have to recreate the database, after all, how would one place 
a fresh database under the application if all of the application's data is in 
there?  So, my idea was to raise my friend as an admin

Still trying to fix authentication on an ASP.net application: some accounts work and others don't

[Katherine Moss]

Hi guys,

This is driving me crazy.  I'm trying to fix my web site and the authentication 
modules.  I have since replaced the web.config file and some people are able to 
log into the site.  I cannot log in either as the main administrator with a 
user name of admin, or as my secondary account, yet my friend's able to log in 
just fine.  I get the following error message when trying to retrieve my user 
name since the site can no longer locate my account:
Server Error in '/' Application.

The user account has been locked out.
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the 
current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about 
the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.Security.MembershipPasswordException: The user 
account has been locked out.

Source Error:
An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web 
request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be 
identified using the exception stack trace below.


Stack Trace:

[MembershipPasswordException: The user account has been locked out.]
   System.Web.Security.SqlMembershipProvider.ResetPassword(String username, 
String passwordAnswer) +1840
   System.Web.Security.MembershipUser.ResetPassword(String passwordAnswer) +145
   Sueetie.Web.ForgotUsernamePage.AddBody(MailMessage _msg, SueetieUser _user) 
+507
   Sueetie.Web.ForgotUsernamePage.SendEmail_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e) 
+277
   System.Web.UI.WebControls.Button.RaisePostBackEvent(String eventArgument) 
+154
   System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain(Boolean includeStagesBeforeAsyncPoint, 
Boolean includeStagesAfterAsyncPoint) +3707




Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:4.0.30319; ASP.NET 
Version:4.0.30319.272

I'm trying not to have to recreate the database, after all, how would one place 
a fresh database under the application if all of the application's data is in 
there?  So, my idea was to raise my friend as an administrator via the 
database, but I don't know how to do that and have the site replicate the 
change on the side of ASP.net.  and why are these particular accounts being 
locked out and not taking email addresses?  Thanks.

RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

[Katherine Moss]

I'll keep that in mind.  I mean, anyone who reads my resume will know when 
Project Jenks is under way; it will be put up there as is my web site, though 
it's a totally non-business endeavor.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 9:51 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

Katherine, to be more exact that would be like fishing in your lunch break for 
your own fish, when you are a fisherman and work on your bosses boat, and 
expecting him to let you keep the fish. He'd probably be ok with it provided 
you notify him and let him/her know in advance. Then at least they have the 
opportunity to lay down ground rules if they had an issue with it. Better up 
front then after the fact. No nasty surprises/fights or misunderstandings.
Most IT companies want to know about all other IT related activities just so 
that everyone are on the same page. That's been my experience anyway, your 
situation might be totally different but its a good idea to check. Its usually 
fine as most IT people don't just do this stuff as a day job. (Because its so 
much fun!)

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Though if my job is in administration of servers and not in development of 
software, what would my employer need to give me permission for?  That's like 
asking permission to go fishing with a fishing license.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 2:27 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Nick Hodge 
mailto:nho...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
Key thing if you are contributing to Open source & having a not-so-open source 
day job: getting clearance from your employer.
>From an earlier thread: http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201204/two_problems.html

Some people, wanting an escape from their full-time job, think "I know, I'll 
contribute to open source." Now they have two full-time jobs.


David Connors
da...@connors.com<mailto:da...@connors.com> | M +61 417 189 
363
Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors
Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors

RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

[Katherine Moss]

Though if my job is in administration of servers and not in development of 
software, what would my employer need to give me permission for?  That’s like 
asking permission to go fishing with a fishing license.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 2:27 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Nick Hodge 
mailto:nho...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
Key thing if you are contributing to Open source & having a not-so-open source 
day job: getting clearance from your employer.
From an earlier thread: http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201204/two_problems.html

Some people, wanting an escape from their full-time job, think "I know, I'll 
contribute to open source." Now they have two full-time jobs.


David Connors
da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363
Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors
Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors

RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

[Katherine Moss]

I still think that working for someone else is more for me.  Thanks for your 
thoughts though, guys.  I really appreciate them, and watch out for "Project 
Jenks" on CodePlex.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:48 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

I still don't really understand the question, but here are some thoughts:

"whether you guys agree with the premise that there are more ways to make money 
developing other than hiding your code and charging for your stuff"

You can certainly make money in ways other than "hiding your code". Red Hat is 
a large, high profile, company that I'm sure you're aware of. There are 
numerous consulting companies out there that don't write any code at all 
(closed or open). So, there's plenty of ways to "make money"

However, your next point "charging for your stuff" is something different 
again. You can "charge for stuff" (e.g. expertise) without hiding code. But if 
you don't want to "charge for stuff" then you're relying on people's goodwill 
(donations). Whilst that's a possible business model, I'm not sure that's it's 
a huge market. You're going to need something special to survive if that's your 
funding model.

"I told you guys that I have no interest in starting a business with 
development"

If you want to have money coming in the door you've got two options:

a)  Work for someone else as an employee

b)  Work for yourself (either by charging, or via donations). This requires 
a business plan. You may have no interest in "being in business", but if you 
want to be self-employed you're going to have to get used to this

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013 11:48 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

I told you guys that I have no interest in starting a business with development 
(try web hosting instead?).  .  I'm more interested in having fun as a 
developer and joining with other developers who need no more reward than 
community values and doing stuff for the community; I feel that .net projects 
that are really good with the acception of web applications are truly lacking 
in the open Source world.  And I don't mind paying for visual studio since for 
now I have a version that's a holdover from DreamSpark until I get strong 
enough to program out in the open, and hopefully by then I'll have a good job.  
Technology for me is a lifestyle, so I feel that if I'm doing one thing as a 
job as well as for a hobby (administration works in both places for me with my 
server, could be more in the future), then the other one I could do for the os 
community; there are tons of projects that need a hand out there.  What I'm 
asking more or less, is whether you guys agree with the premise that there are 
more ways to make money developing other than hiding your code and charging for 
your stuff.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:25 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

I'd suggest to try each and see what sits best for you personally. :)
Some projects won't earn any money but might be more fun because of the project 
itself. Other projects might earn you money but require more of your time, or 
might not be as interesting or challenging. It really varies. You might also 
find your situation requires you to spend more of your time on the money 
earning than the fun community based stuff. You have to eat after all. I 
consider myself lucky to have such a job that I enjoy. Many people don't.
At some point you may find yourself as a developer by trade, and a developer 
for fun. Or perhaps some other hobby that's not computer related. Life is too 
short to be doing stuff you don't love. Outsource the rest! :)

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Nathan Chere 
mailto:nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com>> wrote:
This sounds like a job for BizSpark:

http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/

Essentially free access to all the MS stack development tools you could 
possibly need for 3 years while you get your business up and running. Buy 
licenses for what you use at the end of the 3 years if it takes off, no loss if 
it doesn't (there used to be a $100

RE: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

[Katherine Moss]

I told you guys that I have no interest in starting a business with development 
(try web hosting instead?).  .  I'm more interested in having fun as a 
developer and joining with other developers who need no more reward than 
community values and doing stuff for the community; I feel that .net projects 
that are really good with the acception of web applications are truly lacking 
in the open Source world.  And I don't mind paying for visual studio since for 
now I have a version that's a holdover from DreamSpark until I get strong 
enough to program out in the open, and hopefully by then I'll have a good job.  
Technology for me is a lifestyle, so I feel that if I'm doing one thing as a 
job as well as for a hobby (administration works in both places for me with my 
server, could be more in the future), then the other one I could do for the os 
community; there are tons of projects that need a hand out there.  What I'm 
asking more or less, is whether you guys agree with the premise that there are 
more ways to make money developing other than hiding your code and charging for 
your stuff.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:25 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of 
joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

I'd suggest to try each and see what sits best for you personally. :)
Some projects won't earn any money but might be more fun because of the project 
itself. Other projects might earn you money but require more of your time, or 
might not be as interesting or challenging. It really varies. You might also 
find your situation requires you to spend more of your time on the money 
earning than the fun community based stuff. You have to eat after all. I 
consider myself lucky to have such a job that I enjoy. Many people don't.
At some point you may find yourself as a developer by trade, and a developer 
for fun. Or perhaps some other hobby that's not computer related. Life is too 
short to be doing stuff you don't love. Outsource the rest! :)

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Nathan Chere 
mailto:nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com>> wrote:
This sounds like a job for BizSpark:

http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/

Essentially free access to all the MS stack development tools you could 
possibly need for 3 years while you get your business up and running. Buy 
licenses for what you use at the end of the 3 years if it takes off, no loss if 
it doesn't (there used to be a $100 "exit fee" but they scrapped it).

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013 8:24 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining 
and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

Hello all,
This question is one that I'm wrestling with right now.  As I'm learning to 
develop with C# and PowerShell (I want my first project to be a 
PowerShell-based SSH client with some of the already-developed libraries for 
the protocol at its core), I see a lot of places where I could eventually join 
the .Net community as an open source developer (helping other projects and 
volunteering my time where other projects need a hand) and earn money through 
donations and through support contracts if my own personal project ideas  ever 
take off.  I'm definitely getting there though, I know that.  But how do you 
decide based on the cost of development software (Visual Studio Professional 
2012 and TFS 2012, or in my case, the express version of TFS used for CI and 
hooked up to a CodePlex either Git or TFS but probably TFS repository), and 
weigh the costs against going entirely for-proffit, in other words, closed 
source, proprietary development?  I like the idea of Open Source because it 
allows the code to be available for everyone, especially if you find that you 
are already working at a job you love, right?  So do you weigh the benefits and 
drawbacks of the Open Source community based on how much time you want to spend 
on a project?  (though I don't think that should be the only factor; some of 
the best software in my opinion is not from the commercial market but from the 
OS community).  Thanks all for your thoughts; I'm really trying to decide this; 
I see myself as an administrator by trade and a developer for the fun and 
enjoyment of it.


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. 
www.websense.com<http://www.websense.com>

the Open Source community for .NET developers: the value of joining and developing OS VS. for-proffit development

[Katherine Moss]

Hello all,
This question is one that I'm wrestling with right now.  As I'm learning to 
develop with C# and PowerShell (I want my first project to be a 
PowerShell-based SSH client with some of the already-developed libraries for 
the protocol at its core), I see a lot of places where I could eventually join 
the .Net community as an open source developer (helping other projects and 
volunteering my time where other projects need a hand) and earn money through 
donations and through support contracts if my own personal project ideas  ever 
take off.  I'm definitely getting there though, I know that.  But how do you 
decide based on the cost of development software (Visual Studio Professional 
2012 and TFS 2012, or in my case, the express version of TFS used for CI and 
hooked up to a CodePlex either Git or TFS but probably TFS repository), and 
weigh the costs against going entirely for-proffit, in other words, closed 
source, proprietary development?  I like the idea of Open Source because it 
allows the code to be available for everyone, especially if you find that you 
are already working at a job you love, right?  So do you weigh the benefits and 
drawbacks of the Open Source community based on how much time you want to spend 
on a project?  (though I don't think that should be the only factor; some of 
the best software in my opinion is not from the commercial market but from the 
OS community).  Thanks all for your thoughts; I'm really trying to decide this; 
I see myself as an administrator by trade and a developer for the fun and 
enjoyment of it.  

RE: trying to repair an ASP.net web site, can't log in via the administrative account anymore: I need an explanation in plain English

[Katherine Moss]

The problem though is that with the account to which I retrieved the user name; 
it is not letting me reset the password for it saying that it doesn’t exist, 
yet when I retrieve the user name, an email comes back with a temporary 
password and my user name and yet still it claims that login is unsuccessful.  
Did you by any chance read through the post that I sent out in my last message? 
 He told me how to fix it, but I don’t understand what he’s saying about 
changing the authentication from 0 to 2 in the database; what does that mean?  
And when he tells me to direct the email to the local drive, can I do that in 
lieu of messing with the database?
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 1:05 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: trying to repair an ASP.net web site, can't log in via the 
administrative account anymore: I need an explanation in plain English

An idea is that the "not found in database" is to put crackers off from 
bruteforcing it looking for usernames.  If you returned both "invalid username" 
and "invalid password" you'd have an opportunity to build a list of users, and 
then work on finding passwords.

Just a thought.

Mike
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Hello all,
I figure that this is relevant considering my site runs ASP.net.  I'm on the 
Sueetie Framework, and I have the following issue:
I changed the administrator password to both the administrative accounts listed 
on the site and now I cannot remember it.  I have my email settings set to 
deliver to a local directory on the hard drive of the server, so many of the 
email addresses are not valid for testing purposes until I can set up an email 
server.  I am a stronger administrator (and I'm still learning as always) than 
developer.  I was wondering if you could explain the following conversation 
between me and the developer of the Sueetie Framework in plain English?  
Portions of it I do not understand what he is telling me to do, and he seems to 
think that I should understand exactly what he is talking about, though he's 
not one for really explaining things and educating you in what you don't know.  
And not to mention the fact that since he says that email addresses listed 
don't have to be valid, I try to use the forgot password link to retrieve 
passwords and nothing happens, I try to use forgot user name as well to try and 
discover what user I have, and then it says that it is not found in the 
database.  That kind of behavior sort of makes me rather anxious, though the 
easiest thing probably at this point would be to start over, though I'm not 
willing to admit defeat yet, but if someone touched something ...
The forum link is here:
http://sueetie.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3344#post3344
And my site is here if you want to see it:
http://accesscop.org
My goal is to get this issue fixed as soon as possible.  And if something did 
happen to any of my accounts on here and they weren't of my doing, then I have 
no idea how that might have happened; my site doesn't get too many hits, and no 
one who has hit it would ever do anything harmful.  Thanks for the hand; I'll 
be a lot more at ease once I can get into the administrator accounts again and 
be able to make my friend also an administrator so that this could never happen 
again unless both of us goofed up our passwords.  And even if we did, hopefully 
by then I'll have an email server set up in the near future; I plan on using 
the .net-based SmarterMail.

Thanks,
Katherine





--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

trying to repair an ASP.net web site, can't log in via the administrative account anymore: I need an explanation in plain English

[Katherine Moss]

Hello all,
I figure that this is relevant considering my site runs ASP.net.  I'm on the 
Sueetie Framework, and I have the following issue:
I changed the administrator password to both the administrative accounts listed 
on the site and now I cannot remember it.  I have my email settings set to 
deliver to a local directory on the hard drive of the server, so many of the 
email addresses are not valid for testing purposes until I can set up an email 
server.  I am a stronger administrator (and I'm still learning as always) than 
developer.  I was wondering if you could explain the following conversation 
between me and the developer of the Sueetie Framework in plain English?  
Portions of it I do not understand what he is telling me to do, and he seems to 
think that I should understand exactly what he is talking about, though he's 
not one for really explaining things and educating you in what you don't know.  
And not to mention the fact that since he says that email addresses listed 
don't have to be valid, I try to use the forgot password link to retrieve 
passwords and nothing happens, I try to use forgot user name as well to try and 
discover what user I have, and then it says that it is not found in the 
database.  That kind of behavior sort of makes me rather anxious, though the 
easiest thing probably at this point would be to start over, though I'm not 
willing to admit defeat yet, but if someone touched something ...
The forum link is here:
http://sueetie.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3344#post3344
And my site is here if you want to see it:
http://accesscop.org
My goal is to get this issue fixed as soon as possible.  And if something did 
happen to any of my accounts on here and they weren't of my doing, then I have 
no idea how that might have happened; my site doesn't get too many hits, and no 
one who has hit it would ever do anything harmful.  Thanks for the hand; I'll 
be a lot more at ease once I can get into the administrator accounts again and 
be able to make my friend also an administrator so that this could never happen 
again unless both of us goofed up our passwords.  And even if we did, hopefully 
by then I'll have an email server set up in the near future; I plan on using 
the .net-based SmarterMail.  

Thanks,
Katherine

RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

[Katherine Moss]

Not a PDF that is a scanned image, no.  But PDFs that are written in say word 
or something converted from a word document are fine.  And word forms are 
accessible if the document is made to be accessible.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 10:29 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

PDF doesn't work with screen readers Katherine?  I'm a little surprised, PDF is 
a language inside the file. (PS)
Mike

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Acceptable, and not to mention, accessible.  You never know whether the folks 
you are working with use screen readers and forms in word and as PDFs via 
scanning are completely inaccessible.  Not recommended if you have screen 
reading and text-to-speech software among those in your environment.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 9:38 PM

To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

That’s a good suggestion, Katherine. InfoPath would be quite acceptable – 
perhaps best choice if Greg H must also handle the data, after the clients / 
form-fillers have completed the forms. The XML data format is intrinsic to 
InfoPath. PDF Forms also export (the filled data) as XML.


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 10:19 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Don’t forget Microsoft InfoPath, guys.  InfoPath has some hot .net extension 
features from what I have read on it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of 
ifum...@gmail.com<mailto:ifum...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 2:12 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Omnipage has an api that could achieve some of this I think

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Harris
Sent: Monday, 24 June 2013 10:21 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Hi Everybody

I have a client that needs a simple tick the boxes data entry system.
This is to be used by their client’s who may or may not know how to navigate 
web applications and will be of a wide age, educational and ethnicity range.
This will often be used on the road with poor access to the internet and 
general support.
Expected volume is 30 questionnaires with up to 30 questions on each, all of 
which must be processed with less than 30 minutes human processing time per day.
I was thinking of printing a questionnaire page for each of them and then 
getting a data entry person to enter the results.
But, I also want to be able scan the pages, because it is being used on the 
road, I don’t think that it is realistic for the client to take a scanner with 
him, I was thinking he could just use a camera and take a photo of the 
completed questionnaire.
The photo would be scanned for a QR code to identify the document and also scan 
the rest of the document for ticks in boxes, all of which will be in fixed 
locations on the page.

Questions:
1. Has anyone done anything like this?
2. Do you have any suggestion on how to best implement it and how to avoid 
problems ?
4. Do you know of any good .NET libraries that could help me?

Many thanks
Greg Harris



--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

[Katherine Moss]

Acceptable, and not to mention, accessible.  You never know whether the folks 
you are working with use screen readers and forms in word and as PDFs via 
scanning are completely inaccessible.  Not recommended if you have screen 
reading and text-to-speech software among those in your environment.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 9:38 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

That's a good suggestion, Katherine. InfoPath would be quite acceptable - 
perhaps best choice if Greg H must also handle the data, after the clients / 
form-fillers have completed the forms. The XML data format is intrinsic to 
InfoPath. PDF Forms also export (the filled data) as XML.


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 10:19 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Don't forget Microsoft InfoPath, guys.  InfoPath has some hot .net extension 
features from what I have read on it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of 
ifum...@gmail.com<mailto:ifum...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 2:12 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Omnipage has an api that could achieve some of this I think

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Harris
Sent: Monday, 24 June 2013 10:21 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Hi Everybody

I have a client that needs a simple tick the boxes data entry system.
This is to be used by their client's who may or may not know how to navigate 
web applications and will be of a wide age, educational and ethnicity range.
This will often be used on the road with poor access to the internet and 
general support.
Expected volume is 30 questionnaires with up to 30 questions on each, all of 
which must be processed with less than 30 minutes human processing time per day.
I was thinking of printing a questionnaire page for each of them and then 
getting a data entry person to enter the results.
But, I also want to be able scan the pages, because it is being used on the 
road, I don't think that it is realistic for the client to take a scanner with 
him, I was thinking he could just use a camera and take a photo of the 
completed questionnaire.
The photo would be scanned for a QR code to identify the document and also scan 
the rest of the document for ticks in boxes, all of which will be in fixed 
locations on the page.

Questions:
1. Has anyone done anything like this?
2. Do you have any suggestion on how to best implement it and how to avoid 
problems ?
4. Do you know of any good .NET libraries that could help me?

Many thanks
Greg Harris

RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

[Katherine Moss]

Don't forget Microsoft InfoPath, guys.  InfoPath has some hot .net extension 
features from what I have read on it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of ifum...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 2:12 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Omnipage has an api that could achieve some of this I think

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Harris
Sent: Monday, 24 June 2013 10:21 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: A simple tick the boxes data entry system

Hi Everybody

I have a client that needs a simple tick the boxes data entry system.
This is to be used by their client's who may or may not know how to navigate 
web applications and will be of a wide age, educational and ethnicity range.
This will often be used on the road with poor access to the internet and 
general support.
Expected volume is 30 questionnaires with up to 30 questions on each, all of 
which must be processed with less than 30 minutes human processing time per day.
I was thinking of printing a questionnaire page for each of them and then 
getting a data entry person to enter the results.
But, I also want to be able scan the pages, because it is being used on the 
road, I don't think that it is realistic for the client to take a scanner with 
him, I was thinking he could just use a camera and take a photo of the 
completed questionnaire.
The photo would be scanned for a QR code to identify the document and also scan 
the rest of the document for ticks in boxes, all of which will be in fixed 
locations on the page.

Questions:
1. Has anyone done anything like this?
2. Do you have any suggestion on how to best implement it and how to avoid 
problems ?
4. Do you know of any good .NET libraries that could help me?

Many thanks
Greg Harris

RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)

[Katherine Moss]

I plan to upgrade to Office 2013, and what do you mean that after office '07 
Macro creation and running is a pain in the butt?  Is it because you have to 
use a different file type for it?  And I like Office '07 and 2010; need to 
upgrade still, but I need to figure out how to upgrade; buy it from my school 
or use Office 365 pro.  I want Office 2013 professional Plus at all times, so 
yeah.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:38 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)

I'm using Outlook 2010 alongside Office 2013: would love the new Outlook 2013 
features, but there's too many issues in the upgrade.
 (1) Can't have pop mail deliver to an .OST.  Sure I could do that server side, 
but then I get ALL my mail in the one account on my phone ;)  Why this was 
taken away I'm still not sue
(2) Outlook 2013 fails to sync contacts properly with @Live accounts; again a 
real deal breaker with my phone.
So as much as I like some of the new features in 2013, it's too much of a deal 
breaker (still waiting on SP1/2/3)

As to the ribbon, it has grown on me.  The original big concern was lack of 
customisation available.  I 'm quite happy with it minimized and mainly relying 
on the quick access bar (in the window title).  Still I would like it to have a 
commonly used/ most frequently used/most recently used tab.  Say it was called 
"My" tab, it'd be nice if I could right click on any ribbon command and copy it 
to the "My" tab, just like you can add it to the quick access bar; and if there 
was little drop down at the end of the "My" ribbon that showed the most 
recently (top 3) followed by most frequently used commands as suggestions to 
add to the ribbon.




|-Original Message-
|From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- 
|boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
|Sent: Monday, 13 May 2013 5:17 PM
|To: ozDotNet
|Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)
|
|a)  Threaded comments are a killer feature for me, and auto-object spacing 
in
|Visio. I guess one person’s killer feature is another person’s ‘meh’. 
|I’m sure that Jensen Harris posted some usage stats from Office 2003 
|that showed that beyond the first 10 or so features, the next 100 are 
|only used by 1-2% of the population, but different 1%s, so eliminating 
|a feature isn’t really possible
|
|b)  In terms of surfacing features to the user, the Ribbon is pretty good. 
Much
|better and scalable than the toolbars, menus, task panes and all the 
|other stuff that pre-dated it. I’m pretty sure Jensen also had some 
|graphs showing the growth in features (and the concurrent increase in 
|toolbars etc and how unsustainable it was going to be)
|
|
|
|http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jensenh/archive/2008/03/12/table-of-contents.as
|px makes for fascinating reading (showing the depth of analysis and 
|work that went into rethinking the UI)
|
|
|
|http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jensenh/archive/2006/04/04/568249.aspx feature 
|bloat in Office
|
|
|
|Cheers
|
|Ken
|
|
|
|From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- 
|boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere
|Sent: Monday, 13 May 2013 4:20 PM
|To: ozDotNet
|Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)
|
|
|
|If you use Powerpoint and Access extensively your mileage may vary but 
|other than for a few minor niceties in Outlook I can’t think of a single 
‘killer feature’
|added to the core Office programs (ie Word, Excel and Outlook) between 
|Office
|2003 and Office 2013 which even remotely compels me to upgrade if the 
|licenses weren’t included anyway with my MSDN subscription (maybe 
|faster large file handling in 64 bit versions?). The only significant 
|reason that I upgrade is OneNote. Other than for that I’d be perfectly 
|happy sticking with 2003, ‘supported’ or not (and when’s the last time 
|Microsoft consumer-level support provided anything of value anyway?)
|
|
|
|Speaking solely from a user perspective, it’s not that dissimilar to 
|the Win8 situation. Why expect people to re-learn what they already 
|know how to do more efficiently for the sole sake of ‘keeping up’? Where’s the 
benefit to the user?
|
|

RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)

[Katherine Moss]

Say that again? There are still people using Office ’03?  We have to get them 
out of the dark ages and get them up to supported Office levels!

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:05 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)

THis is just for Office-in-the-cloud, right?  There's a lot of customers out 
there that use and love Office 2003.
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I mean the new office model using what’s it called, Napa or something like 
that?  That doesn’t use .net at all, and they are calling the existing 
development model legacy already.  So Microsoft seems to prefer that folks now 
do all of their development for office via HTML instead of via .net.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 3:20 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)

This must be the most divergent tangent from the original topic, but here goes:
It is not related to HTML support (would that have changed, I wonder?) but my 
guess is that it is because the legacy 3rd-party add-ins for Office would be 
largely VBA add-ins or perhaps C++ COM add ins (not ever written as .NET with 
the aid of the PIAs for the various Office releases). Meski’s short response 
was sufficient explanation.
It is hard to move forward when you are forced to support quite old legacy 
applications.
If some small business or individual is used to running (for example) an 
Outlook add-in from 4Team, which may have been updated to support Outlook 97 
through to Outlook 2013 – but not the 64-bit versions of Office - then what 
would you expect Microsoft (or software publisher X – eg, Apple) to do?
In my view, it would be helpful to suggest that the 32-bit version may be 
preferable, if that is what Microsoft recommends somewhere.
Those with more technical advice or knowledge would make a judgement whether 
the 64-bit version of say Excel might be better suited for their use - perhaps 
to support huge spreadsheets? But many users would be pleased enough with 
32-bit versions.
I’m not sure what you mean by stupid HTML crap. Do you mean XML-based object 
model in the .docx, .xlsx (etc) file formats? Personally, I wouldn’t complain 
about Microsoft’s ,NET support for Office development, in the 2009 to 1013 time 
frame. I think it’s pretty good.

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:40 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing?

Oh LOL.  I never thought of that.  I mean, Microsoft has just ruined >NET 
Framework support in Office by touting their stupid HTML crap, so it’s almost 
like it matters not anymore.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 1:13 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing?

Because there are a lot of legacy addons for Office that haven't been compiled 
for x64 Office.  They will not work together (inProc calls)
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Oh funny.  But in light of what somebody said about Office, why do you 
recommend 32 bit office on a 64 bit platform?  I don’t get that.  And before 
today, I had never heard of it before.  I’m in the market for Office 2013, so 
which to get and why?  I’d rather go for the 64 bit version, but if that’s 
going to cause headaches for me later, then oh well.




--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: List Server Software (was Re: BankWest: Dear Sir/Madam?)

[Katherine Moss]

Hey.  SmarterrMail is cooler.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:30 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: List Server Software (was Re: BankWest: Dear Sir/Madam?)

> I really need to fix the look and feel of that site but decided to wait
> until Mailman 3.0 ... which appears to be moving at a glacial pace.
even for an open-source.

In trying to find a release date form the py-thon monkeys writing MM, I came 
across this: http://groupserver.org/groupserver

Looks interesting. Especially:
Key Features
· Read and post messages via the web.
· Administer membership and post in one web interface.
· Share uploaded files.
· Search messages and files.
· Multiple email addresses on a profile.
· Multiple groups on a site
· Skinnable and customisable.
Anyone used it?

David.

RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)

[Katherine Moss]

I mean the new office model using what’s it called, Napa or something like 
that?  That doesn’t use .net at all, and they are calling the existing 
development model legacy already.  So Microsoft seems to prefer that folks now 
do all of their development for office via HTML instead of via .net.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 3:20 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? (tangent # 99)

This must be the most divergent tangent from the original topic, but here goes:
It is not related to HTML support (would that have changed, I wonder?) but my 
guess is that it is because the legacy 3rd-party add-ins for Office would be 
largely VBA add-ins or perhaps C++ COM add ins (not ever written as .NET with 
the aid of the PIAs for the various Office releases). Meski’s short response 
was sufficient explanation.
It is hard to move forward when you are forced to support quite old legacy 
applications.
If some small business or individual is used to running (for example) an 
Outlook add-in from 4Team, which may have been updated to support Outlook 97 
through to Outlook 2013 – but not the 64-bit versions of Office - then what 
would you expect Microsoft (or software publisher X – eg, Apple) to do?
In my view, it would be helpful to suggest that the 32-bit version may be 
preferable, if that is what Microsoft recommends somewhere.
Those with more technical advice or knowledge would make a judgement whether 
the 64-bit version of say Excel might be better suited for their use - perhaps 
to support huge spreadsheets? But many users would be pleased enough with 
32-bit versions.
I’m not sure what you mean by stupid HTML crap. Do you mean XML-based object 
model in the .docx, .xlsx (etc) file formats? Personally, I wouldn’t complain 
about Microsoft’s ,NET support for Office development, in the 2009 to 1013 time 
frame. I think it’s pretty good.

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:40 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing?

Oh LOL.  I never thought of that.  I mean, Microsoft has just ruined >NET 
Framework support in Office by touting their stupid HTML crap, so it’s almost 
like it matters not anymore.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 1:13 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing?

Because there are a lot of legacy addons for Office that haven't been compiled 
for x64 Office.  They will not work together (inProc calls)
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Oh funny.  But in light of what somebody said about Office, why do you 
recommend 32 bit office on a 64 bit platform?  I don’t get that.  And before 
today, I had never heard of it before.  I’m in the market for Office 2013, so 
which to get and why?  I’d rather go for the 64 bit version, but if that’s 
going to cause headaches for me later, then oh well.

RE: Is Surface really failing?

[Katherine Moss]

Oh LOL.  I never thought of that.  I mean, Microsoft has just ruined >NET 
Framework support in Office by touting their stupid HTML crap, so it’s almost 
like it matters not anymore.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 1:13 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing?

Because there are a lot of legacy addons for Office that haven't been compiled 
for x64 Office.  They will not work together (inProc calls)
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Oh funny.  But in light of what somebody said about Office, why do you 
recommend 32 bit office on a 64 bit platform?  I don’t get that.  And before 
today, I had never heard of it before.  I’m in the market for Office 2013, so 
which to get and why?  I’d rather go for the 64 bit version, but if that’s 
going to cause headaches for me later, then oh well.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 12:44 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing?

What makes you say it’s not “Google”?

Try searching for something obscure a lot of on Google (say door handles),  
notice that YouTube will showing you ads related to it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:25 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing?

I don’t trust anything with the name “Google” in it.  All data miners who need 
to be put down.  I watch and upload to YouTube because YouTube is owned by 
google, but it’s not Google.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:58 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing?

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Stephen Price 
mailto:step...@perthprojects.com>> wrote:
I've stopped installing office on my machines now for some years. On the odd 
occasion I do need to access a document of some kind, I put it in my Google 
drive and open it in Google docs. It even gives me a nice way to save as PDF if 
I need to.
My work machines usually have office as part of the SOE so use whatever is 
installed. So my personal usage of Office is pretty much zero.

I use Office all the time at Codify. Every plan, doc, report, etc is heavily 
invested in office. I can't imagine putting together a 100 page report full of 
cross-references and stuff in anything other than Word.

Google Docs is still a bit shit for things like vector graphics (PDFs end up 
with bitmaps in them) and the presentations they generate are horrible last 
time I checked.

Google Spreadsheets is very, very solid though. I am constantly amazed by it.





--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: Is Surface really failing?

[Katherine Moss]

Oh funny.  But in light of what somebody said about Office, why do you 
recommend 32 bit office on a 64 bit platform?  I don’t get that.  And before 
today, I had never heard of it before.  I’m in the market for Office 2013, so 
which to get and why?  I’d rather go for the 64 bit version, but if that’s 
going to cause headaches for me later, then oh well.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 12:44 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing?

What makes you say it’s not “Google”?

Try searching for something obscure a lot of on Google (say door handles),  
notice that YouTube will showing you ads related to it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:25 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing?

I don’t trust anything with the name “Google” in it.  All data miners who need 
to be put down.  I watch and upload to YouTube because YouTube is owned by 
google, but it’s not Google.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:58 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing?

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Stephen Price 
mailto:step...@perthprojects.com>> wrote:
I've stopped installing office on my machines now for some years. On the odd 
occasion I do need to access a document of some kind, I put it in my Google 
drive and open it in Google docs. It even gives me a nice way to save as PDF if 
I need to.
My work machines usually have office as part of the SOE so use whatever is 
installed. So my personal usage of Office is pretty much zero.

I use Office all the time at Codify. Every plan, doc, report, etc is heavily 
invested in office. I can't imagine putting together a 100 page report full of 
cross-references and stuff in anything other than Word.

Google Docs is still a bit shit for things like vector graphics (PDFs end up 
with bitmaps in them) and the presentations they generate are horrible last 
time I checked.

Google Spreadsheets is very, very solid though. I am constantly amazed by it.

RE: Is Surface really failing?

[Katherine Moss]

I don’t trust anything with the name “Google” in it.  All data miners who need 
to be put down.  I watch and upload to YouTube because YouTube is owned by 
google, but it’s not Google.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Connors
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 1:58 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing?

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Stephen Price 
mailto:step...@perthprojects.com>> wrote:
I've stopped installing office on my machines now for some years. On the odd 
occasion I do need to access a document of some kind, I put it in my Google 
drive and open it in Google docs. It even gives me a nice way to save as PDF if 
I need to.
My work machines usually have office as part of the SOE so use whatever is 
installed. So my personal usage of Office is pretty much zero.

I use Office all the time at Codify. Every plan, doc, report, etc is heavily 
invested in office. I can't imagine putting together a 100 page report full of 
cross-references and stuff in anything other than Word.

Google Docs is still a bit shit for things like vector graphics (PDFs end up 
with bitmaps in them) and the presentations they generate are horrible last 
time I checked.

Google Spreadsheets is very, very solid though. I am constantly amazed by it.

RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and why?

[Katherine Moss]

I wonder.  And no one flipped a lid when I said that I’m going to keep VS 
running as a dream spark license till I can buy it, so yeah.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 10:24 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and 
why?

On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 11:44 AM, David Burstin 
mailto:david.burs...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On 04/05/2013 11:25 AM, "Tristan Reeves" 
mailto:tree...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> "full featured" meaning, um, not full featured. Or at least not if you
> consider having any plugin work with VS a "feature".  LOL. Ah
> Microsoft, gotta love 'em.


Yeah. Gotta love that they provide an excellent development environment at a 
fair price and then provide a free version that also gives a great development 
experience. Or did you want the free version to be exactly the same as the paid 
version?

This whole freetard sense of entitlement gives me the sh*ts.

You get compared with the competition.  So, we're looking at Android and Apple. 
 Android's is open and free, Apple's xcode is free.  Hard for Microsoft to 
compete with that, unless they give VS away too, and look at making money via 
appstore revenues.  THat appears to be where Apple and Android are going.  
Compared to this, are Microsoft really making much out of VS revenue?


--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and why?

[Katherine Moss]

That's what I'm saying; since dreamspark licenses never expire, I'll use that 
(I'm not making money from development anyway and don't plan to, so who 
cares?), until I can afford the professional version at what is it, $499 or 
something?  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Mark Hurd
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:53 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and 
why?

On 4 May 2013 11:14, David Burstin  wrote:
>
> On 04/05/2013 11:25 AM, "Tristan Reeves"  wrote:
>>
>> "full featured" meaning, um, not full featured. Or at least not if 
>> you consider having any plugin work with VS a "feature".  LOL. Ah 
>> Microsoft, gotta love 'em.
>
> 
> Yeah. Gotta love that they provide an excellent development 
> environment at a fair price and then provide a free version that also 
> gives a great development experience. Or did you want the free version 
> to be exactly the same as the paid version?
>
> This whole freetard sense of entitlement gives me the sh*ts.
> 

I agree with David's rant, though I do also see Tristan issue, in that the free 
version is clearly nobbled because you can't access the expansion points that 
are clearly still there.

--
Regards,
Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.)

RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and why?

[Katherine Moss]

Well I plan to change my license from a Dreamspark license to a full pro 
license for VS 2012 just as soon as I can afford it, though how critical is it? 
 I'm only creating open source projects with no monitary goals whatsoever, and 
not to mention having fun with it.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 2:16 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and 
why?

I wouldn't base the editions on the templates. You can write a WCF service or 
Windows service, with or without a template. They remove the templates to 
reduce what we call "concept count". ie The Express editions are targeted at 
students and new developers to .NET, they remove the templates so that they 
aren't distracted by things that are a little more advanced.

I can't find a good comparison on the web between what's included in the 
Express editions vs what's included in the Pro. The big difference is that you 
get a single IDE for all projects & platforms - the express edition you have 
multiple IDEs for each platform.

Your original question around what I use? I use private internal builds of VS 
Ultimate, but I don't have to pay for it and I work for Microsoft so probably 
not a good data point. :)

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2013 10:57 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and 
why?

If they are full-featured, then what is the difference between the express 
editions and then the professional edition?  I'm just confused because back in 
the 2010 days, the express editions were devoid of some features that even some 
open source projects could definitely use.  And th what about other obscure 
project types like WCF and Windows service?  It seems like with the express 
edition, one has to really think about which one they use based on the 
templates they want and then if they find that they need another type, they 
have to go back for more.  I mean, the professional edition's not a big issue 
for me since the price has come down, but still, what is the difference?  And 
you didn't answer my original question that I asked you guys.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:13 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and 
why?

We provide full-featured Express editions (Phone, Win8, Desktop & Web) that are 
free, have you looked at those?

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2013 10:07 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and why?

Hi all,
I'm just looking for various opinions on the two most prominent  development 
environments for .NET, what you guys like about each, what could be improved, 
and so on.  I use Visual Studio professional 2012 simply due to the 
accessibility factor; Avalon edit doesn't work very well with screen readers, 
and though I've spoken to the developers of SharpDevelop, they told me that 
making it accessible would take basically recoding the entire interface with 
UIA properties included, but if those properties are missing from the base 
framework to begin with, then it's kind of hard, so I let it go.  I trust that 
those on the project know what they are doing and what they are talking about 
and that they are not just trying to blow my request off due to laziness.  And 
it seems to me that Visual Studio has more features. Though I kind of wish 
Microsoft would consider an open source license for the professional edition; 
either for a very low price or for free as long as your project matches x set 
of licenses or something like that, but I know that's probably never going to 
happen.  I say that because development for me will be something fun for me to 
do while not at work, on vacation, ETC, and not for career choices or profit.  
I feel that some of the greatest software has been made via Open Source with 
only donations to support it, and that some open source software is better than 
it's commercial counterpart all because a bunch of developers got together and 
decided to make a selfless difference in the world.  Anyway, I'm just curious 
as to what everybody uses on here and why.  

RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and why?

[Katherine Moss]

If they are full-featured, then what is the difference between the express 
editions and then the professional edition?  I'm just confused because back in 
the 2010 days, the express editions were devoid of some features that even some 
open source projects could definitely use.  And th what about other obscure 
project types like WCF and Windows service?  It seems like with the express 
edition, one has to really think about which one they use based on the 
templates they want and then if they find that they need another type, they 
have to go back for more.  I mean, the professional edition's not a big issue 
for me since the price has come down, but still, what is the difference?  And 
you didn't answer my original question that I asked you guys.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 1:13 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and 
why?

We provide full-featured Express editions (Phone, Win8, Desktop & Web) that are 
free, have you looked at those?

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2013 10:07 AM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and why?

Hi all,
I'm just looking for various opinions on the two most prominent  development 
environments for .NET, what you guys like about each, what could be improved, 
and so on.  I use Visual Studio professional 2012 simply due to the 
accessibility factor; Avalon edit doesn't work very well with screen readers, 
and though I've spoken to the developers of SharpDevelop, they told me that 
making it accessible would take basically recoding the entire interface with 
UIA properties included, but if those properties are missing from the base 
framework to begin with, then it's kind of hard, so I let it go.  I trust that 
those on the project know what they are doing and what they are talking about 
and that they are not just trying to blow my request off due to laziness.  And 
it seems to me that Visual Studio has more features. Though I kind of wish 
Microsoft would consider an open source license for the professional edition; 
either for a very low price or for free as long as your project matches x set 
of licenses or something like that, but I know that's probably never going to 
happen.  I say that because development for me will be something fun for me to 
do while not at work, on vacation, ETC, and not for career choices or profit.  
I feel that some of the greatest software has been made via Open Source with 
only donations to support it, and that some open source software is better than 
it's commercial counterpart all because a bunch of developers got together and 
decided to make a selfless difference in the world.  Anyway, I'm just curious 
as to what everybody uses on here and why.  

Visual studio and SharpDevelop: who uses which on this list and why?

[Katherine Moss]

Hi all,
I'm just looking for various opinions on the two most prominent  development 
environments for .NET, what you guys like about each, what could be improved, 
and so on.  I use Visual Studio professional 2012 simply due to the 
accessibility factor; Avalon edit doesn't work very well with screen readers, 
and though I've spoken to the developers of SharpDevelop, they told me that 
making it accessible would take basically recoding the entire interface with 
UIA properties included, but if those properties are missing from the base 
framework to begin with, then it's kind of hard, so I let it go.  I trust that 
those on the project know what they are doing and what they are talking about 
and that they are not just trying to blow my request off due to laziness.  And 
it seems to me that Visual Studio has more features. Though I kind of wish 
Microsoft would consider an open source license for the professional edition; 
either for a very low price or for free as long as your project matches x set 
of licenses or something like that, but I know that's probably never going to 
happen.  I say that because development for me will be something fun for me to 
do while not at work, on vacation, ETC, and not for career choices or profit.  
I feel that some of the greatest software has been made via Open Source with 
only donations to support it, and that some open source software is better than 
it's commercial counterpart all because a bunch of developers got together and 
decided to make a selfless difference in the world.  Anyway, I'm just curious 
as to what everybody uses on here and why.  

is it just me, or are their really discrepancies between types of controls in Windows Forms Vs. WPF?

[Katherine Moss]

Hi all,
I've been kind of playing around while learning how to work with C#, and I'm 
finding a very different set of controls between Windows Forms and those of 
WPF.  For instance, Windows Forms applications can have stuff like directory 
searchers, file system watchers, and various other controls, and while WPF is 
cool and if all buttons and controls are labeled works great for folks using 
screen readers to access the controls, though so does windows forms, I find 
that the programmer is limited as to what they can put on the design surface; 
what if a WPF designer or programmer needed to use one of these controls only 
available to Windows forms applications?  Is that where the WPF Windows Form 
host comes in?  Does that drop down another menu or something in Visual Studio 
full of Windows forms controls?  I've never tried it as I'm jumping ahead of 
myself as it is, but I'm always curious about such things.  Thanks.  

DLL decompiling: ildasm doesn't see an exacutable header, yet ILSpy decompiles the file just fine?

[Katherine Moss]

Hi,
The subject line says it all; I have an open source plugin here for Miranda IM, 
and I'm trying to do a nice thing for the community and recompile it for the 
latest version of the application, for it's not been updated since 2009, and it 
most definitely has never  worked with 64 bit  builds of Miranda.  So now I'm 
really curious what this means: I load the dll in ILSpy, and boom, it allows me 
to save the code either as a .csproj file or as a plain .cs source file, which 
of course I chose the latter considering I want to place the source into a new 
class library project in Visual Studio and recompile it under the any CPU 
option so that it will work with both versions of Miranda IM.  But I'm rather 
curious why ILSpy allowed me to see the C# output very nicely like it's 
supposed to, though when I put it into Ildasm to see if I got the same positive 
results, I got the following error instead:
"this file has no valid exacutable header and cannot be disassembled."
What was going on there?  Is that normal?  Thanks.  

RE: ReSharper 7 accessibility testing has been ongoing: I need as many as possible voting on these

[Katherine Moss]

Thanks, though according to a colleague of mine, the issue won't be optimally 
fixed unless Jetbrains recodes the entire thing, which is obviously asking a 
lot.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Burstin
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:23 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: ReSharper 7 accessibility testing has been ongoing: I need as many 
as possible voting on these

Good on you Katherine. As a developer community we should all do what we can to 
be as accessible and inclusive as possible. My votes are in for both issues.

Cheers
Dave

On 19 April 2013 03:55, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Hi guys,
The following links are tickets set up in light of a demo I did over on YouTube 
of the ReSharperr VS extension.  I would very much appreciate it if you could 
please comment and vote on them and get them put up to the top of the priority 
list; and if you ask me, this should be placed on priority and should be fixed 
if that is the only feature in the next update, though processes are processes, 
so if voting is what it will take to get this extension accessible to the 
blind, then that's what we're going to do.  Feel free to send this one on to 
folks not on the list, for the more people who vote and comment the better off 
we will be.
http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RSRP-354152
http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RSRP-354151

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

Yes, it's anything written in Windows 8 modern.  Look at it for yourself; 
you'll understand.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:28 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Is it just the Apps in Metro store are you talking about the store itself and 
the OS?

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 6:20 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
So, did anyone try what I suggested?  Run a screen reader against a metro 
application?  So that you know I'm not kidding you?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:49 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

AV clients aren't a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually the 
blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people involved 
in getting the release out


-  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

-  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security 
settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get the 
security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed standard

-  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure 
(including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools, 
deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement tools)

-  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big bank 
will have hundreds of apps)

-  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update 
deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

-  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will actually 
work on, and work to retire the rest

-  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the 
upgrade process

-  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor walkers), 
plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out schedules with 
business units blah blah

For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really 
finish one upgrade before you're already planning the next one. The end-point 
protection client is probably the least of the issues.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely to 
rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle and lot 
of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems isn't just 
SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't gotten their 
act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition (i'm looking at 
you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in Virus scanner in 
Windows 8

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

How much does it cost?  I only ask because I rather buy things that I know will 
work.  Or is there sort of an evaluation thingo I can get?  Thanks.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Jason Roberts
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:26 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Nope, but my latest Windows Store app "app idea evaluator" was just released. I 
am interested to see what I'd need to do to make it accessible, it also 
features some charting which may prove a challenge. I'm then gonna write up on 
my blog my experience as accessibility is an area I've not seen much info on.

Cheers
Jason
____
From: Katherine Moss
Sent: 19/04/2013 4:21 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?
So, did anyone try what I suggested?  Run a screen reader against a metro 
application?  So that you know I’m not kidding you?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:49 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

AV clients aren’t a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually the 
blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people involved 
in getting the release out


-  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

-  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security 
settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get the 
security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed standard

-  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure 
(including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools, 
deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement tools)

-  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big bank 
will have hundreds of apps)

-  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update 
deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

-  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will actually 
work on, and work to retire the rest

-  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the 
upgrade process

-  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor walkers), 
plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out schedules with 
business units blah blah

For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really 
finish one upgrade before you’re already planning the next one. The end-point 
protection client is probably the least of the issues.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely to 
rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle and lot 
of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems isn't just 
SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't gotten their 
act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition (i'm looking at 
you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in Virus scanner in 
Windows 8

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

So, did anyone try what I suggested?  Run a screen reader against a metro 
application?  So that you know I’m not kidding you?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:49 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

AV clients aren’t a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually the 
blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people involved 
in getting the release out


-  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

-  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security 
settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get the 
security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed standard

-  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure 
(including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools, 
deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement tools)

-  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big bank 
will have hundreds of apps)

-  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update 
deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

-  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will actually 
work on, and work to retire the rest

-  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the 
upgrade process

-  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor walkers), 
plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out schedules with 
business units blah blah

For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really 
finish one upgrade before you’re already planning the next one. The end-point 
protection client is probably the least of the issues.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely to 
rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle and lot 
of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems isn't just 
SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't gotten their 
act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition (i'm looking at 
you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in Virus scanner in 
Windows 8

ReSharper 7 accessibility testing has been ongoing: I need as many as possible voting on these

[Katherine Moss]

Hi guys,
The following links are tickets set up in light of a demo I did over on YouTube 
of the ReSharperr VS extension.  I would very much appreciate it if you could 
please comment and vote on them and get them put up to the top of the priority 
list; and if you ask me, this should be placed on priority and should be fixed 
if that is the only feature in the next update, though processes are processes, 
so if voting is what it will take to get this extension accessible to the 
blind, then that's what we're going to do.  Feel free to send this one on to 
folks not on the list, for the more people who vote and comment the better off 
we will be.  
http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RSRP-354152
http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RSRP-354151

  

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

Cheaply?  How much money does it cost to add a label onto a field?  A button?  
It’s right there in the properties of the control.  And yes, really.  Try it 
for yourself; download a demo of the screen reader JAWS for Windows from 
Freedom Scientific, and then try to navigate a chosen metro application, and 
you’ll realize that I’m not kidding you guys.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:28 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

REALLY?..

Had not known that... I mean in all honesty if there was one UI theme that you 
could make accessible cheaply it would be the metro/modern design theme.. its 
freaking wireframes coloured in ffs? ... I'd love to know more about that now...

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:46 PM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Right, but this doesn’t at all address the accessibility problem with windows 8 
modern.  Are you guys aware that blind users and users of screen readers and 
assistive technology like me are completely or 90percent cut off from the tiled 
world because no accessibility testing is done on these new apps?  Out of all 
the apps in the store, I can only get three to work even close to 
satisfactorally with any screen reader (system Access preferred) and those 
three are builtin apps; messanger, Sky Drive, and the store app itself.  None 
of the others (even if the accessibility rating says “yes”), are actually 
accessible either producing no speech output when a screen reader looks for 
something to output, or producing less than satisfactory speech feedback.  
Maybe I would be more accepting of the new style if the new style were 
accepting of blind individuals and that accessibility testing were part of the 
criteria for certification?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Fredericks, Chris
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:36 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

I am a recent convert to Xamarin products to do cross-platform development all 
in C# for iOS, Android and Windows – all from within Visual Studio 2012 using a 
Mac mini as the iOS build server.  Not cheap at $999 per platform, but there 
are free Starter and $299 independent developer editions.

http://www.xamarin.com

I licensed the iOS and Android Xamarin products so I can now build those 
platforms in addition to all things Windows/Windows Phone all using C# which I 
also happen to love, and have no plans to use HTML/JS whatsoever.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of 
jasi...@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:jasi...@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 5:39 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Yeah, I’ve also heard on various podcasts that while there are a good deal of 
HTML/JS apps in the store they are not the majority. I chose XAML/C# for my 
apps as I’ve done Silverlight/WPF/Win Phone so seemed like the logical choice 
for me (I also happen to like XAML, Blend etc) but it’s certainly not a 
religious thing just a personal choice. Also I happen to love C# 😊 I might even 
try writing my next Windows Store app in HTML/js/css just to see what it’s 
like...

Sent from Windows Mail

From: David Kean
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎17‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎28‎ ‎PM
To: ozDotNet

That is not true. JavaScript/HTML is nowhere close to .NET in the store.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern apps 
(I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on a mobile 
phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C# or VB in them? 
 And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds more like a 
kill-off rather than an enhancement.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html allow 
one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. Knowing 
knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter 
mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging back 
again

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

Right, but this doesn’t at all address the accessibility problem with windows 8 
modern.  Are you guys aware that blind users and users of screen readers and 
assistive technology like me are completely or 90percent cut off from the tiled 
world because no accessibility testing is done on these new apps?  Out of all 
the apps in the store, I can only get three to work even close to 
satisfactorally with any screen reader (system Access preferred) and those 
three are builtin apps; messanger, Sky Drive, and the store app itself.  None 
of the others (even if the accessibility rating says “yes”), are actually 
accessible either producing no speech output when a screen reader looks for 
something to output, or producing less than satisfactory speech feedback.  
Maybe I would be more accepting of the new style if the new style were 
accepting of blind individuals and that accessibility testing were part of the 
criteria for certification?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Fredericks, Chris
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:36 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

I am a recent convert to Xamarin products to do cross-platform development all 
in C# for iOS, Android and Windows – all from within Visual Studio 2012 using a 
Mac mini as the iOS build server.  Not cheap at $999 per platform, but there 
are free Starter and $299 independent developer editions.

http://www.xamarin.com

I licensed the iOS and Android Xamarin products so I can now build those 
platforms in addition to all things Windows/Windows Phone all using C# which I 
also happen to love, and have no plans to use HTML/JS whatsoever.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of 
jasi...@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:jasi...@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 5:39 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Yeah, I’ve also heard on various podcasts that while there are a good deal of 
HTML/JS apps in the store they are not the majority. I chose XAML/C# for my 
apps as I’ve done Silverlight/WPF/Win Phone so seemed like the logical choice 
for me (I also happen to like XAML, Blend etc) but it’s certainly not a 
religious thing just a personal choice. Also I happen to love C# 😊 I might even 
try writing my next Windows Store app in HTML/js/css just to see what it’s 
like...

Sent from Windows Mail

From: David Kean
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎17‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎28‎ ‎PM
To: ozDotNet

That is not true. JavaScript/HTML is nowhere close to .NET in the store.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern apps 
(I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on a mobile 
phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C# or VB in them? 
 And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds more like a 
kill-off rather than an enhancement.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html allow 
one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. Knowing 
knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter 
mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging back 
again

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to 4.5 of 
the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.  And besides, 
since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature set compared to 
what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft a little crazy for 
thinking that everyone’s going to accept less than what they have now.  And 
that’s what scares me about the “Gemini” update for Office coming in the future 
since in order to metro-ize Office completely, according to sources of Mary Joe 
Fowley on All About Microsoft over at ZDNet, she says that what people are 
telling her is that the update will be a subset of the current feature set.  
And that’s what gets me; what about enthusiasts who need more than just a 
Fisher Price version?  What if we want all of the cool features?  What is 
Microsoft telling us to do, never move on because they are interested in 
depleting stuff?
And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript?  How muc

RE: Open Source development and authenticode

[Katherine Moss]

Why use a bat file when you could accomplish the same thing with a PowerShell 
script or at least use the newer .cmd extension?  It's not 2000 anymore LOL.  
And remember, you have to describe in words what an image is for me since I 
cannot see them, remember?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdottnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 7:31 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Open Source development and authenticode

You need to install an intermediary certificate on your box but not on the 
target machine. The installation is straight forward.
This is the chain for my cert
[Inline image 1]
I think it's an easy process once you get the hang of it. I now have a .bat 
file that signs my published files. Took 1/2 day to build it but it's done and 
it works ...



On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Greg Keogh 
mailto:g...@mira.net>> wrote:
Comodo: $166.95
http://www.comodo.com/business-security/code-signing-certificates/code-signing.php
But I bought mine through Ksoftware which is a reseller of comodo:
http://codesigning.ksoftware.net/
$95/year ..

But did you have trouble getting the certificates recognised? I remember at 
some point I had to import some extra root certificates into Windows to get my 
Thawte Premium Server CA cert recognised, which wasted a bit of time and meant 
that other users would unpredictably have the problem.

Greg K

<>

RE: Open Source development and authenticode

[Katherine Moss]

Interesting, guys.  I mean, I think that the whole certificate authority model 
is flawed in one big way; that's that users trust the authority, not the actual 
publisher, but still.  I'll look around on the CodePlex forge and see which 
packages are really signed, for the ideas I have will be no demo projects, 
that's for sure.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 7:43 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Open Source development and authenticode

Comodo: $166.95
http://www.comodo.com/business-security/code-signing-certificates/code-signing.php
But I bought mine through Ksoftware which is a reseller of comodo:
http://codesigning.ksoftware.net/
$95/year ..

But did you have trouble getting the certificates recognised? I remember at 
some point I had to import some extra root certificates into Windows to get my 
Thawte Premium Server CA cert recognised, which wasted a bit of time and meant 
that other users would unpredictably have the problem.

Greg K

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

But my main question and concern is whether learning .net now is worth it in 
this day and age.  I feel like .net is what makes Windows Windows, and since 
most of Microsoft’s feature endeavours like with the Midori project coming up 
in the future and all that being mostly based on .net, I don’t see it dying out 
any time soon. And if you ask me, hTML belongs in a web browser and not on the 
desktop, but that’s just my opinion.  Do you folks think it’s worth me 
continuing to learn C# and to become proficient in it?  And whoever said 
incompatibility of web services with other applications, what are you talking 
about?  I know of a .net application (Sueetie) that uses WCF for some of it’s 
functions, and I’ve never heard of any complaints of people not being able to 
access those functions using other web browsers and platforms.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:44 AM
To: Greg Low; ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The way the Web won.

(insert whistling cowboy music)

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Greg Low (GregLow.com) 
mailto:g...@greglow.com>> wrote:
I think they are responding to the BYOD movement as well. The days of IT staff 
defining an SOE and forcing everyone to use it are gone, or at least 
disappearing fast. It’s really common to have top-down decisions on this stuff 
now ie: CEOs coming in with their tablets and saying “make it work here”.

I’ve just spent quite a bit of time moving around dozens of software houses, 
and I can tell you that almost everyone has an HTML5/CSS3/JS story. They see it 
as a design choice that isn’t going to disappear again tomorrow, even though 
building apps there is still so much harder than what it should be. It’s seen 
as a hard but safe bet. Most are using additional frameworks like KendoUI.

This sort of change isn’t new though. What does concern me is the loss of 
productivity we’ve had over the years.

We didn’t move to web apps in the first place because users were screaming out 
for slow delivery times, a lousy user interface and session state that’s likely 
to throw away their work without warning. As an example, OWA is a pretty good 
web app but it’s not a patch on Outlook. The initial move to web apps was all 
about IT departments not wanting to deal with deployment issues, because they 
were just too hard sometimes.

I see this as just the next part of this trend. I look at productivity though 
and it could make you cry. I’ve just spent a couple of weeks coding in an MVC4 
project, and while I like it and can see the appeal of it, I can’t help but 
thinking I could have created the same business functionality in a winforms app 
in less than a day. At least it runs all over the place (sort of).

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ 
+61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013 3:04 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Yes, but by the time .Net developers started to use WebServices everyone else 
moved on to REST as they figured out WS were bloody hard to use, incompatible 
between platforms, heavyweight, hard to upgrade and generally a pain in the *** 
to develop against :)
Now everyone is talking lightweight REST + JSON and we just managed finally to 
get that in the WebApi ...

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tom Rutter 
mailto:therut...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Wasn't the original intent for .net to be for creating web services?

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern apps 
(I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on a mobile 
phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C# or VB in them? 
 And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds more like a 
kill-off rather than an enhancement.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html allow 
one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. Knowing 
knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter 
mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging back 
again

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 A

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern apps 
(I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on a mobile 
phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where's the C# or VB in them? 
 And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds more like a 
kill-off rather than an enhancement.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html allow 
one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. Knowing 
knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter 
mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging back 
again

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to 4.5 of 
the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.  And besides, 
since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature set compared to 
what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft a little crazy for 
thinking that everyone's going to accept less than what they have now.  And 
that's what scares me about the "Gemini" update for Office coming in the future 
since in order to metro-ize Office completely, according to sources of Mary Joe 
Fowley on All About Microsoft over at ZDNet, she says that what people are 
telling her is that the update will be a subset of the current feature set.  
And that's what gets me; what about enthusiasts who need more than just a 
Fisher Price version?  What if we want all of the cool features?  What is 
Microsoft telling us to do, never move on because they are interested in 
depleting stuff?
And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript?  How much 
more 1990's can you get?  Come on, jees.  I'll never accept a version of 
Windows or it's successors without .net installed and living in some form.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:27 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Its legacy simply because no investment will be put into it. Windows XP is 
legacy even though I still see people inside a Fortune 500 company right now 
using at as a desktop OS.

Silverlight/WPF concepts and IP were consolidated and rehydrated into the 
Windows 8 XAML "runtime" so in a way Legacy would also imply that the vNext is 
the "new" and the older version are the old (just like Silverlight 2 is legacy 
vs Silverlight 4). The problem is Microsoft didn't understand what the notion 
of a "messaging framework" is in terms of Marketing and so they left that part 
out creating this whole conversation right now around Legacy true/false.

Its also legacy because of the uncertainty in a lot of enterprise/companies 
around the "AS-IS" futures they've in turn suspended investment or looking to 
shift to a HTML5 deployment model or are open to new ideas around next bets. 
That's not to say a new project isnt created every 5secs in WPF/SL today... 
it's just not advertised and creates this whole "is it alive or isnt it" 
question.

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:55 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I don't know why people keep calling stuff like WPF and Win32/64 applications 
"old and legacy".  I still see people using WPF all the time, so obviously it's 
still got some spirit in it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:14 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure awesome.
It is light, app switching and screen splitting are so easy.

Since I got one I cant remember a day I didn't have it in my hand, most of 
times without the cover.

I would like a Pro for alternative set of reasons, but RT will still be lighter.

Regards

Arjang



On 2 April 2013 10:49, James Chapman-Smith 
mailto:ja...@chapman-smith.com>> wrote:
Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

Wha

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to 4.5 of 
the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.  And besides, 
since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature set compared to 
what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft a little crazy for 
thinking that everyone's going to accept less than what they have now.  And 
that's what scares me about the "Gemini" update for Office coming in the future 
since in order to metro-ize Office completely, according to sources of Mary Joe 
Fowley on All About Microsoft over at ZDNet, she says that what people are 
telling her is that the update will be a subset of the current feature set.  
And that's what gets me; what about enthusiasts who need more than just a 
Fisher Price version?  What if we want all of the cool features?  What is 
Microsoft telling us to do, never move on because they are interested in 
depleting stuff?
And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript?  How much 
more 1990's can you get?  Come on, jees.  I'll never accept a version of 
Windows or it's successors without .net installed and living in some form.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:27 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Its legacy simply because no investment will be put into it. Windows XP is 
legacy even though I still see people inside a Fortune 500 company right now 
using at as a desktop OS.

Silverlight/WPF concepts and IP were consolidated and rehydrated into the 
Windows 8 XAML "runtime" so in a way Legacy would also imply that the vNext is 
the "new" and the older version are the old (just like Silverlight 2 is legacy 
vs Silverlight 4). The problem is Microsoft didn't understand what the notion 
of a "messaging framework" is in terms of Marketing and so they left that part 
out creating this whole conversation right now around Legacy true/false.

Its also legacy because of the uncertainty in a lot of enterprise/companies 
around the "AS-IS" futures they've in turn suspended investment or looking to 
shift to a HTML5 deployment model or are open to new ideas around next bets. 
That's not to say a new project isnt created every 5secs in WPF/SL today... 
it's just not advertised and creates this whole "is it alive or isnt it" 
question.

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:55 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I don't know why people keep calling stuff like WPF and Win32/64 applications 
"old and legacy".  I still see people using WPF all the time, so obviously it's 
still got some spirit in it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:14 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure awesome.
It is light, app switching and screen splitting are so easy.

Since I got one I cant remember a day I didn't have it in my hand, most of 
times without the cover.

I would like a Pro for alternative set of reasons, but RT will still be lighter.

Regards

Arjang



On 2 April 2013 10:49, James Chapman-Smith 
mailto:ja...@chapman-smith.com>> wrote:
Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? How 
much memory should I get?

I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

Cheers.

James.

RE: PowerPivot?

[Katherine Moss]

How are you even using powerPivot at all unless you have the Pro + version of 
Office?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 6:26 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: PowerPivot?

Are you using it through VSTO? on it' own I have only used it 1 per workbook 
and not with millions of records. 5000 records should very well be easy to 
handle.



On 8 April 2013 18:34, Corneliu I. Tusnea 
mailto:corne...@acorns.com.au>> wrote:
Hi,

Is PowerPivot considered a "Production" product? I'm running it on a 
W8+Office2013 and it's crashing like a beta product. I only have 9 worksheets 
and up to about 5000 rows in each and it's unusable. Once I start entering 
formulas it's practically crashing every few minutes.
I now got it to a point where I can't even open it properly.

[Inline image 1]

This is quite disappointing right now :(

Am I missing something?

Regards,
Corneliu

<>

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

I don't know why people keep calling stuff like WPF and Win32/64 applications 
"old and legacy".  I still see people using WPF all the time, so obviously it's 
still got some spirit in it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:14 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure awesome.
It is light, app switching and screen splitting are so easy.

Since I got one I cant remember a day I didn't have it in my hand, most of 
times without the cover.

I would like a Pro for alternative set of reasons, but RT will still be lighter.

Regards

Arjang



On 2 April 2013 10:49, James Chapman-Smith 
mailto:ja...@chapman-smith.com>> wrote:
Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? How 
much memory should I get?

I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

Cheers.

James.

RE: Cloud TFS

[Katherine Moss]

The cloud is great, but remember to use it where it is merited, don't use it 
where it's not.  Hosting your own server might be good for the experience of 
it, you know.  Just a thought; I'll be doing some stuff on CodePlex hopefully 
soon, and I'll use CodePlex for the repository and then TFS Express as the 
build server from my place.
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 7:33 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Cloud TFS


Greg,
In VS goto tools - options - source control. Set this to tfs.
Close dialog.

In menu -> View - Team Explorer..  this is what you will need to connect to 
your TFS instance in cloud.

In menu -> View - other windows (I think) - Source Code Explorer.. this will 
give you a view of your repository of the connected tfs.

HTH..

Grant
On Apr 5, 2013 6:36 PM, "Greg Keogh" mailto:g...@mira.net>> 
wrote:
Folks, while stuffing around today I noticed that VS2012 has an option to 
create a TFS account, so I made 
https://mybusiness.visualstudio.com account, then I 
created a new Team Project for my current hobby project.

My only questions are now ... what have I done and what can I do with it?

For comparison, a few months ago I created a Bitbucket account and I've been 
using the TortoiseHG Workbench client app to move stuff in and out. It's 
working quite well and I like having my projects in the cloud, just like my 
backups and email (ignoring security issues for now!). So I suppose I've 
created an account that is in direct competition with Bitbucket, is that right? 
If I have, what's the advantage? I get the impression that Visual Studio's 
version control can work directly with my new account, is that right? It would 
be nice to have the version control integrated into the VS IDE if that's what I 
can get. Then I worry that I have the wrong version of Visual Studio or there 
are dependencies on other TFS stuff I have to install.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if someone is using "projects in the cloud" 
and can give me a potted summary of what advantage I can gain quickly and what 
I might need to install.

Cheers,
Greg K

RE: [OT] Windows Server 2012 and SQL Server 2012

[Katherine Moss]

Why the heck are you running that from DVD anyway? Why not USB?  Why not direct 
download to the VM?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 11:40 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Windows Server 2012 and SQL Server 2012

Earlier I tried to run the setup.exe from the Start (tile) screen. I just 
restarted the VM and put the DVD in, then I opened the htm page that describes 
the contents and I saw a link to SQL Server 2012 which runs the correct exe and 
now I'm off and running with the install.

Lord knows what happened the first time.

Greg

RE: occasionally connected application design problem

[Katherine Moss]

Dang. I was not aware of that.  Well, I suppose I wasn’t aware of a lot of 
things with that considering it’s not really a mainstream database.  But then, 
there’s always the issue of whether Raven’s the right tool for the job, as with 
everything, and not every project is a suitable candidate for NoSQL, is it?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Heinrich Breedt
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 5:13 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: occasionally connected application design problem


Yes
On 28 Mar 2013 06:33, "Katherine Moss" 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Yes, but can RavenDB replicate to SQL Server or SQL Server Express?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Heinrich Breedt
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 2:12 PM
To: g...@greglow.com<mailto:g...@greglow.com>; ozDotNet
Subject: RE: occasionally connected application design problem


Ravendb with replication might be an option
On 28 Mar 2013 02:05, "Greg Low (GregLow.com)" 
mailto:g...@greglow.com>> wrote:
Hi Corneliu,

I don’t mind roll-your-own solutions. They work ok. Biggest issue I come across 
with those LastUpdated type columns is checking out how they get updated. I 
often see people run into issues with those if they don’t understand how they 
were updated.

For example, doing work on a DB2 site recently, they had a scheme like this but 
missed the odd row. Turns out that they were using a trigger to set the 
LastUpdated column value. But the value appeared when the trigger finished 
running yet it was set to the time value of when the trigger started. So, it 
looked like (occasionally) a row jumped backwards in time. Similar issues can 
happen when they are updated in proc code, and even worse when they are updated 
based on client code.

99% of those problems are avoided by saying “give me everything since last time 
but only up to a few seconds ago” instead of getting everything up to the most 
recent.

Sync Framework does work reasonably well. Azure Data Sync is still in preview 
but we’ve had pretty good success with it for simple scenarios.

Replication is probably overkill and isn’t supported on all editions, so that 
might be a limiting factor.

And just to add to the “can’t believe that pasta sauce is a vege” discussion in 
the USA, we have nothing to be proud of. The GST exemption on food that the 
Greens needed before passing the legislation has led to significant chunks of 
our Tax Act that define what “food” is.

For example, we now have several pages in the Australian Tax Act that cover the 
definitions of the word “pudding”. I shudder to think what that cost us all to 
have that written .

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ 
+61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/>

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Wednesday, 27 March 2013 8:07 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: occasionally connected application design problem

Greg,

I'm sure the SQL guys will tell you about some "magical tool" that can do all 
of this for you hands free and without any headaches (fingers crossed) but my 
take would be the good old REST API model.

1. For every Table have two columns LastUpdated, LastUploaded and 
LastDownloaded. Every change you do locally you update the LastUpdated to UTC 
now (never use local times!)
2. Keep a table with the "sync status" of each table where all you need to 
store is the TableName, LastUploaded and LastDownloaded.
3. Have a background thread that tries to monitor for network events (don't 
continuously try to ping your server as your'll burn the battery of those 
devices).  
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/64975/Detect-Internet-Network-Availability
4. When you have connectivity all you need to do is select top 100 from each 
table where LastUpdatd for the Status for the table < LastUpdated of the row.
(I don't know if I make sense but basically you want to select all the rows 
that were changed since point of your LastUpdated in your Status table).
You then try to push those back to your server. For every row that "made it" to 
the server you update the LastUploaded to UtcNow or even better I would update 
it to the time just before you started the sync.
5. You do the reverse for downloading data. You ask the server for all changes 
since your LastDownload. Once all the changes were received, you update your 
own LastDownload.
With a bit of reflection and some clear naming conventions you could code all 
of this generically enough that you can simply run it on 

RE: occasionally connected application design problem

[Katherine Moss]

Yes, but can RavenDB replicate to SQL Server or SQL Server Express?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Heinrich Breedt
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 2:12 PM
To: g...@greglow.com; ozDotNet
Subject: RE: occasionally connected application design problem


Ravendb with replication might be an option
On 28 Mar 2013 02:05, "Greg Low (GregLow.com)" 
mailto:g...@greglow.com>> wrote:
Hi Corneliu,

I don’t mind roll-your-own solutions. They work ok. Biggest issue I come across 
with those LastUpdated type columns is checking out how they get updated. I 
often see people run into issues with those if they don’t understand how they 
were updated.

For example, doing work on a DB2 site recently, they had a scheme like this but 
missed the odd row. Turns out that they were using a trigger to set the 
LastUpdated column value. But the value appeared when the trigger finished 
running yet it was set to the time value of when the trigger started. So, it 
looked like (occasionally) a row jumped backwards in time. Similar issues can 
happen when they are updated in proc code, and even worse when they are updated 
based on client code.

99% of those problems are avoided by saying “give me everything since last time 
but only up to a few seconds ago” instead of getting everything up to the most 
recent.

Sync Framework does work reasonably well. Azure Data Sync is still in preview 
but we’ve had pretty good success with it for simple scenarios.

Replication is probably overkill and isn’t supported on all editions, so that 
might be a limiting factor.

And just to add to the “can’t believe that pasta sauce is a vege” discussion in 
the USA, we have nothing to be proud of. The GST exemption on food that the 
Greens needed before passing the legislation has led to significant chunks of 
our Tax Act that define what “food” is.

For example, we now have several pages in the Australian Tax Act that cover the 
definitions of the word “pudding”. I shudder to think what that cost us all to 
have that written .

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ 
+61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Wednesday, 27 March 2013 8:07 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: occasionally connected application design problem

Greg,

I'm sure the SQL guys will tell you about some "magical tool" that can do all 
of this for you hands free and without any headaches (fingers crossed) but my 
take would be the good old REST API model.

1. For every Table have two columns LastUpdated, LastUploaded and 
LastDownloaded. Every change you do locally you update the LastUpdated to UTC 
now (never use local times!)
2. Keep a table with the "sync status" of each table where all you need to 
store is the TableName, LastUploaded and LastDownloaded.
3. Have a background thread that tries to monitor for network events (don't 
continuously try to ping your server as your'll burn the battery of those 
devices).  
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/64975/Detect-Internet-Network-Availability
4. When you have connectivity all you need to do is select top 100 from each 
table where LastUpdatd for the Status for the table < LastUpdated of the row.
(I don't know if I make sense but basically you want to select all the rows 
that were changed since point of your LastUpdated in your Status table).
You then try to push those back to your server. For every row that "made it" to 
the server you update the LastUploaded to UtcNow or even better I would update 
it to the time just before you started the sync.
5. You do the reverse for downloading data. You ask the server for all changes 
since your LastDownload. Once all the changes were received, you update your 
own LastDownload.
With a bit of reflection and some clear naming conventions you could code all 
of this generically enough that you can simply run it on your database 
disregarding the number of tables & columns.

I'm now going to let the SQL guys deliver their magical tool :)

Regards,
Corneliu.



On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Greg Harris 
mailto:harris.gre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear People,

I need some help to get some good ideas for a design issue I am facing…

The application will be geographically dispersed and only occasionally 
connected to the internet with a slow / unreliable connection.
The users at remote branch offices are doing daily data entry to their own 
local databases (probably SQL express databases).
On a periodic basis the remote branch offices need to synchronise data with 
head office (probably a full SQL database).
Most (99%) of data will travel from the remote branch offices the head office 
some reference data may travel back to the remote branch office.

There a

RE: Skywards (Emirates) sent me my password back in clear text

[Katherine Moss]

Then what should they do, lock you out forever if you forget your password?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 7:51 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Skywards (Emirates) sent me my password back in clear text

Many many websites send passwords back in clear.  It's a good reason not to 
reuse passwords across sites, I guess.

some reset it, and send back a new password, but that's not much of an 
improvement.

Mike

On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Corneliu I. Tusnea 
mailto:corne...@acorns.com.au>> wrote:
This is one of those "OMG, there are still websites keeping passwords in clear 
text" moments but Skywards happily sent me back my password in clear text.

Anyone knows anyone in Skywards that I can get their a*** kicked for this?

http://tinypic.com/r/10ds11y/6

[Inline image 1]

Regards,
Corneliu.




--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
<>

RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

[Katherine Moss]

Great.  I just sent her a long email detailing everything that I also have 
placed in four separate bug filings over on the connect site.  I'm probably 
going to record some demonstrations of this as well.  Though I told her that 
the ultimate way to discover things is to test yourself, though I'm not sure 
how much support and testing Microsoft is willing to devote with third-party 
screen readers though.  But while we're at it, you think there might be a live 
individual I could talk to about the meriad of accessibility issues with both 
Windows server 2012 and SQL Server 2012 (most of whose issues have existed 
since the 2005 versions)?  I contacted the accessibility blog about some of 
these issues, I've tried the forums, and I get looked at like I've got two 
heads.  No one at Microsoft accessibility has taken my inquiry about windows 
server yet, and with SQl Server, I reported one thing, but the biggest thing 
about this kind of stuff is that it's easier to demonstrate than it is to 
explain really.  My SQL server querey seemingly went into left field, and as 
David said before, I guess no one is interested in hearing what they did wrong 
with a product that's already been released.  But I'm sorry, I will not fall 
for such things.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Low (GregLow.com)
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:33 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

I've got someone from corp who does want to talk to you about it. I'll hook you 
up with them.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax 
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Tuesday, 19 March 2013 7:39 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Thank you.　　I'll get ahold of the Windows devision somehow　then.　　But in　terms　
of　side-by-side　configuration　of　both　visual　studio versions,　what will happen 
to my extensions that are installed as Windows installers such as Python Tools 
and Roslyn?  Will the Vs 2010 installer detect them somehow and ask me if I 
want to attach them to Visual Studio?
Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 4:00 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Good points. But just to clarify when I say "we" care about accessibility I'm 
solely talking about the Developer Division (ie VS & .NET). I can't talk for 
other divisions such as Windows (which own the modern UI stack) and SQL (which 
own SQL Server Management Studio). I don't work in their orgs, and have no idea 
what accessibility requirements they have.

Both VS2010 and VS2012 can be installed on the same machine, we explicitly test 
side-by-side.


-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 11:26 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

I'll report all of them; though some of the accessibility issues in 2012 have 
existed since 2010 as well; like the WPF designer and the properties windows 
for both projects and code files.  But in the meantime, what do you recommend I 
do so that I can move on and be productive with my C# studies?
Can I run Vs 2010 on top of VS 2012?  Or side-by-side I should say, without 
degrading the computer's performance?  I am thinking of doing that, but the 
problem is that all of my extensions (Roslyn, Python Tools, and many others are 
plugged into VS2012 right now, so if I install 2010, I'll get conflicts and 
brokenness, won't I?) I'm just curious then.  While we're on the same subject, 
if you care about accessibility, then why don't you provide more specific 
accessibility reports about modern-interface applications?  Just saying 
accessible or not means nothing to us.  I've not been able to buy a single 
thing from the store since most modern-interface apps aren't accessible.  And 
also, the ratings don't provide much because things that you say are not 
accessible via the rating system sometimes are indeed accessible with at least 
some s

RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

[Katherine Moss]

Thank you.　　I'll get ahold of the Windows devision somehow　then.　　But　in　terms　
of　side-by-side　configuration　of　both　visual　studio　versions,　what will happen 
to my extensions that are installed as Windows installers such as Python Tools 
and Roslyn?  Will the Vs 2010 installer detect them somehow and ask me if I 
want to attach them to Visual Studio?  Thanks.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 4:00 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Good points. But just to clarify when I say "we" care about accessibility I'm 
solely talking about the Developer Division (ie VS & .NET). I can't talk for 
other divisions such as Windows (which own the modern UI stack) and SQL (which 
own SQL Server Management Studio). I don't work in their orgs, and have no idea 
what accessibility requirements they have.

Both VS2010 and VS2012 can be installed on the same machine, we explicitly test 
side-by-side.


-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 11:26 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

I'll report all of them; though some of the accessibility issues in 2012 have 
existed since 2010 as well; like the WPF designer and the properties windows 
for both projects and code files.  But in the meantime, what do you recommend I 
do so that I can move on and be productive with my C# studies?  Can I run Vs 
2010 on top of VS 2012?  Or side-by-side I should say, without degrading the 
computer's performance?  I am thinking of doing that, but the problem is that 
all of my extensions (Roslyn, Python Tools, and many others are plugged into 
VS2012 right now, so if I install 2010, I'll get conflicts and brokenness, 
won't I?) I'm just curious then.  While we're on the same subject, if you care 
about accessibility, then why don't you provide more specific accessibility 
reports about modern-interface applications?  Just saying accessible or not 
means nothing to us.  I've not been able to buy a single thing from the store 
since most modern-interface apps aren't accessible.  And also, the ratings 
don't provide much because things that you say are not accessible via the 
rating system sometimes are indeed accessible with at least some screen 
readers.  We blind people want more; we want to know before we buy something 
exactly what parts of the interface work with screen readers.  And if you want 
standards to be followed, why not disallow all apps that do not provide all UIA 
elements (without them, screen readers cannot communicate with an application 
at all), and test them with all four screen readers; JAWS, system Access, 
Window-Eyes and NVDA?  Just a thought and something to ponder; I'm in no way 
trying to criticize Microsoft; I like you guys too much for that.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 2:08 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

We have accessibility requirements for each feature within VS, and multiple 
times throughout a release we run through them to make sure that our product is 
accessible. However, things slip through the cracks.

File (separate) bugs for each thing that is not accessible (we treat 
non-accessible things as broken). There's not a single team inside VS that owns 
each dialog, but each will get routed to the right team.

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:57 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

But it "works" it's just not accessible to people using screen readers, and 
depending on how important Microsoft considers it's own standards, pointing you 
guys at your own documentation for accessibility on the .net framework, would 
be like slapping you in the face, now wouldn't it?  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:27 PM
To: ozDotNet; g...@greglow.com
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work aroun

RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

[Katherine Moss]

I'll report all of them; though some of the accessibility issues in 2012 have 
existed since 2010 as well; like the WPF designer and the properties windows 
for both projects and code files.  But in the meantime, what do you recommend I 
do so that I can move on and be productive with my C# studies?  Can I run Vs 
2010 on top of VS 2012?  Or side-by-side I should say, without degrading the 
computer's performance?  I am thinking of doing that, but the problem is that 
all of my extensions (Roslyn, Python Tools, and many others are plugged into 
VS2012 right now, so if I install 2010, I'll get conflicts and brokenness, 
won't I?)  
I'm just curious then.  While we're on the same subject, if you care about 
accessibility, then why don't you provide more specific accessibility reports 
about modern-interface applications?  Just saying accessible or not means 
nothing to us.  I've not been able to buy a single thing from the store since 
most modern-interface apps aren't accessible.  And also, the ratings don't 
provide much because things that you say are not accessible via the rating 
system sometimes are indeed accessible with at least some screen readers.  We 
blind people want more; we want to know before we buy something exactly what 
parts of the interface work with screen readers.  And if you want standards to 
be followed, why not disallow all apps that do not provide all UIA elements 
(without them, screen readers cannot communicate with an application at all), 
and test them with all four screen readers; JAWS, system Access, Window-Eyes 
and NVDA?  Just a thought and something to ponder; I'm in no way trying to 
criticize Microsoft; I like you guys too much for that.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 2:08 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

We have accessibility requirements for each feature within VS, and multiple 
times throughout a release we run through them to make sure that our product is 
accessible. However, things slip through the cracks.

File (separate) bugs for each thing that is not accessible (we treat 
non-accessible things as broken). There's not a single team inside VS that owns 
each dialog, but each will get routed to the right team.

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:57 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

But it "works" it's just not accessible to people using screen readers, and 
depending on how important Microsoft considers it's own standards, pointing you 
guys at your own documentation for accessibility on the .net framework, would 
be like slapping you in the face, now wouldn't it?  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:27 PM
To: ozDotNet; g...@greglow.com
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Thanks for the feedback. The problem with something like Connect is that it 
acts like we're always open for taking bugs - but truth is, you need to know 
the right time to file.  If we're at the end of a release (last 4-5 months 
up-to RTM), then it's extremely unlikely we'll fix something unless it's a 
regression from a previous release, or a major issue in a new feature.

In saying that though, now is a *really good* time to file bugs, please do. 
Especially around situations that used to work in VS 2010, but don't in VS 2012.

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:06 AM
To: g...@greglow.com; ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Thank you; I appreciate it very much.  Though the last time I have placed my 
feedback dealing with accessibility on SQL Server (remember that?), at least on 
Microsoft connect, the only thing I got is "we'll look into it", which to me, 
seems to be Microsoft's way of telling me to buzz off because what I had to say 
is unimportant to them.  At least this issue  wasn't an issue since 2003 or 
2005 like the SQL issue is.  I hope we get some good results, but remember that 
some of this can only be fixed b

RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

[Katherine Moss]

But it "works" it's just not accessible to people using screen readers, and 
depending on how important Microsoft considers it's own standards, pointing you 
guys at your own documentation for accessibility on the .net framework, would 
be like slapping you in the face, now wouldn't it?  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:27 PM
To: ozDotNet; g...@greglow.com
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Thanks for the feedback. The problem with something like Connect is that it 
acts like we're always open for taking bugs - but truth is, you need to know 
the right time to file.  If we're at the end of a release (last 4-5 months 
up-to RTM), then it's extremely unlikely we'll fix something unless it's a 
regression from a previous release, or a major issue in a new feature.

In saying that though, now is a *really good* time to file bugs, please do. 
Especially around situations that used to work in VS 2010, but don't in VS 2012.

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:06 AM
To: g...@greglow.com; ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Thank you; I appreciate it very much.  Though the last time I have placed my 
feedback dealing with accessibility on SQL Server (remember that?), at least on 
Microsoft connect, the only thing I got is "we'll look into it", which to me, 
seems to be Microsoft's way of telling me to buzz off because what I had to say 
is unimportant to them.  At least this issue  wasn't an issue since 2003 or 
2005 like the SQL issue is.  I hope we get some good results, but remember that 
some of this can only be fixed by the manufacturers of the screen readers; they 
are the ones who don't listen to their customers if their beliefs don't match 
those of the customer; like take for example, the new modern-style interface.  
I would love to be able to install and buy tons and tons of apps, but I cannot, 
because companies like GW micro make a conscious decision not to support the 
new interface, saying, "The new modern-style interface is for phones, not for 
desktops", and then make some comment of how they are useless to those without 
touch screens.  But I do not understand why these people find it too much work 
to keep up with the times.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Low (GregLow.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:16 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Hi Katharine,

I've passed your comments onto an internal Microsoft mailing list (without 
identifying you) and I'll let you know what feedback comes back. That's 
certainly interesting feedback.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax

SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Saturday, 16 March 2013 5:48 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work 
around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Hi,
I would hate to have to run two copies of Visual Studio (one 2010 and the other 
2012) on here, for this computer works hard enough, but that's what it's 
looking like will have to happen in order for me to progress in my C# learning, 
for after doing some testing, I realized that most of the parts of the 
interface of Visual Studio that were once accessible to all of my screen 
readers, are now accessible to none; the properties window, the toolbox, the 
project properties multitabbe dialog box, and I'm sure there was one other 
area, of visual studio 2012 are like having nothing there; nothing is read 
allowed.  Try a demo of JAWS from Freedom Scientific or Window-Eyes from 
GWMicro (you can navigate with the mouse for the most part even with screen 
readers enabled), and do a side-by-side comparison of the toolbox especially, 
since this is the real gotcha here.  To test them, use your arrows and your tab 
key to examine the toolbox.  You will notice one thing.
2010 reads, 2012 doesn't!  And never mind learning the new Windows interface 
from a programming prospective, but I don't think t

RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

[Katherine Moss]

Thank you; I appreciate it very much.  Though the last time I have placed my 
feedback dealing with accessibility on SQL Server (remember that?), at least on 
Microsoft connect, the only thing I got is "we'll look into it", which to me, 
seems to be Microsoft's way of telling me to buzz off because what I had to say 
is unimportant to them.  At least this issue  wasn't an issue since 2003 or 
2005 like the SQL issue is.  I hope we get some good results, but remember that 
some of this can only be fixed by the manufacturers of the screen readers; they 
are the ones who don't listen to their customers if their beliefs don't match 
those of the customer; like take for example, the new modern-style interface.  
I would love to be able to install and buy tons and tons of apps, but I cannot, 
because companies like GW micro make a conscious decision not to support the 
new interface, saying, "The new modern-style interface is for phones, not for 
desktops", and then make some comment of how they are useless to those without 
touch screens.  But I do not understand why these people find it too much work 
to keep up with the times.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Low (GregLow.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:16 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to 
work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Hi Katharine,

I've passed your comments onto an internal Microsoft mailing list (without 
identifying you) and I'll let you know what feedback comes back. That's 
certainly interesting feedback.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax

SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Saturday, 16 March 2013 5:48 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work 
around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

Hi,
I would hate to have to run two copies of Visual Studio (one 2010 and the other 
2012) on here, for this computer works hard enough, but that's what it's 
looking like will have to happen in order for me to progress in my C# learning, 
for after doing some testing, I realized that most of the parts of the 
interface of Visual Studio that were once accessible to all of my screen 
readers, are now accessible to none; the properties window, the toolbox, the 
project properties multitabbe dialog box, and I'm sure there was one other 
area, of visual studio 2012 are like having nothing there; nothing is read 
allowed.  Try a demo of JAWS from Freedom Scientific or Window-Eyes from 
GWMicro (you can navigate with the mouse for the most part even with screen 
readers enabled), and do a side-by-side comparison of the toolbox especially, 
since this is the real gotcha here.  To test them, use your arrows and your tab 
key to examine the toolbox.  You will notice one thing.
2010 reads, 2012 doesn't!  And never mind learning the new Windows interface 
from a programming prospective, but I don't think there's a way to enable those 
templates in VS 2010?  If there is, please, tell me how.  
The second reason I'm sending this message out is because one ambitious 
technologist like me requesting support from GWMicro, Serotek, and Freedom 
Scientific to give support for the latest version of Visual Studio is not going 
to do much.  I need a ton of us requesting it; maybe even the sighted 
community; to remind these people that the blind community will not bend to 
their will (that is, stop updating the support to support the latest features 
and interfaces properly, so in terms of Visual Studio, restricting blind people 
to the 2010 version if they want to get anything productive done, and the sad 
thing is that most of us just accept that and move on), so that they can give 
up keeping with updated versions.  It's like screen reader manufacturers are 
stuck in the time when from windows version to windows version, things didn't 
change much; it's like they are deliberately refusing to keep up.  Like they're 
stuck in a rut.  And I'll tell you, I'm not having this anymore.  Are you?  
Who's with me on this?  Thanks to everyone on here, and I look forward to this 
discussion continuing.  

RE: [OT] Home setup

[Katherine Moss]

Oops.  I never thought that you could go deaf from servers LOL.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Brett Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:33 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Home setup

Just watch out for Industrial deafness then ;)

On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Gosh; my computer room's too quiet with three; a Dell Latitude E6530 laptop, my 
mother's Dell Dimension 4600 (15 years old), and my Del PowerEdge T110 server 
with Server 2008 R2, though I think I'm going to upgrade it to Server 2012.  It 
needs to be louder in here!  Unlike most people on this list probably, I am not 
bothered, but enthralled by the noise of computer equipment; the more noise 
from servers and equipment, the better I can work, and the better I feel.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:50 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Home setup

My three servers are:
2 x Micro-servers (1 x N36L + 1 x N40L)
1 x EX495 (HP Home Server)
These are pretty quiet, and also don't generate much heat (I was using them 
when I was living in Singapore). I replaced a single Dell 1400SC server with 
the above, and they have more capability whilst being quieter and cooler. I 
have the VMs setup in a way that I can turn off one of the Microservers without 
impacting much functionality in case it's a really hot day etc.

The rest of the PCs are scattered around the place e.g. a Mac Mini runs Windows 
Media Centre, both my wife and I have a main laptop, we have a shared desktop, 
a HP Slate 500 tablet etc. We don't have them all on at the same time, but even 
if they were, laptops aren't particularly noisy :)

http://www.adopenstatic.com/temp/homenetwork2.jpg is my current physical setup.

I think the other thing that reduces overhead is that I've writen a decent 
amount of documentation (design docs, end user guides etc.). Also, things are 
setup in a corporate rather than SOHO manner e.g. access to everything is by AD 
identity (e.g. 801.1x for wireless through to print queues, mailboxes, scanning 
etc.), which centralises/minimises identity management overhead.

So, if we have someone staying with us for a week, I create an AD account and 
put that account in some groups (depending on what they need access to). They 
can read the end user services guide to work out what they need to do to get 
access to something. Since our machines are domain joined, they can use any 
free computer in the place. When they leave, I just delete/disable their 
account. In the event a machine goes bad for some reason, I can re-image it 
from the backups on the WHS2011.

Now, I don't have teenage kids, so I don't have to deal with the issues that 
this might throw into the mix :)

Cheers
Ken


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2013 9:45 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Home setup


Ken,

Out of interest how loud is your computer room (based on 7pc's and 3 servers?)
On Mar 14, 2013 8:05 AM, "Ken Schaefer" 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
The absolute "lowest maintenance" solution just involves turning everything 
off. Unfortunately that usually fails other tests (having certain functionality 
available for use).

Without understanding where your time is going, I think it'd be hard to guess 
what remediation measures to take. I don't think there's anything intrinsically 
wrong with the setup you have today. But obviously there is a need to cut down 
on the time/effort you're spending - just need to understand what you're 
spending time on.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2013 4:22 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Home setup


There's no 'major's issue, but it feels like there is always something that 
needs to be done with os.
I do use WU/MU, but in recent times I've had a few failures which have cost me 
lots of time to fix.
Virus/malware not issue as regular scans and daily update checks.
PC and server have auto backups setup.
I have noticed a nice amount of dust on front of cases and CPU heatsinks with 
too much dust, but that's not a biggie...

Maybe I should have asked for the 'lowest maintenance' solution.

Visual Studio once great for blind users, but not anymore: how to work around this and still be able to learn the Windows 8 Runtime interface?

[Katherine Moss]

Hi,
I would hate to have to run two copies of Visual Studio (one 2010 and the other 
2012) on here, for this computer works hard enough, but that's what it's 
looking like will have to happen in order for me to progress in my C# learning, 
for after doing some testing, I realized that most of the parts of the 
interface of Visual Studio that were once accessible to all of my screen 
readers, are now accessible to none; the properties window, the toolbox, the 
project properties multitabbe dialog box, and I'm sure there was one other 
area, of visual studio 2012 are like having nothing there; nothing is read 
allowed.  Try a demo of JAWS from Freedom Scientific or Window-Eyes from 
GWMicro (you can navigate with the mouse for the most part even with screen 
readers enabled), and do a side-by-side comparison of the toolbox especially, 
since this is the real gotcha here.  To test them, use your arrows and your tab 
key to examine the toolbox.  You will notice one thing.  2010 reads, 2012 
doesn't!  And never mind learning the new Windows interface from a programming 
prospective, but I don't think there's a way to enable those templates in VS 
2010?  If there is, please, tell me how.  
The second reason I'm sending this message out is because one ambitious 
technologist like me requesting support from GWMicro, Serotek, and Freedom 
Scientific to give support for the latest version of Visual Studio is not going 
to do much.  I need a ton of us requesting it; maybe even the sighted 
community; to remind these people that the blind community will not bend to 
their will (that is, stop updating the support to support the latest features 
and interfaces properly, so in terms of Visual Studio, restricting blind people 
to the 2010 version if they want to get anything productive done, and the sad 
thing is that most of us just accept that and move on), so that they can give 
up keeping with updated versions.  It's like screen reader manufacturers are 
stuck in the time when from windows version to windows version, things didn't 
change much; it's like they are deliberately refusing to keep up.  Like they're 
stuck in a rut.  And I'll tell you, I'm not having this anymore.  Are you?  
Who's with me on this?  Thanks to everyone on here, and I look forward to this 
discussion continuing.  

RE: [OT] Home setup

[Katherine Moss]

Gosh; my computer room's too quiet with three; a Dell Latitude E6530 laptop, my 
mother's Dell Dimension 4600 (15 years old), and my Del PowerEdge T110 server 
with Server 2008 R2, though I think I'm going to upgrade it to Server 2012.  It 
needs to be louder in here!  Unlike most people on this list probably, I am not 
bothered, but enthralled by the noise of computer equipment; the more noise 
from servers and equipment, the better I can work, and the better I feel.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:50 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Home setup

My three servers are:
2 x Micro-servers (1 x N36L + 1 x N40L)
1 x EX495 (HP Home Server)
These are pretty quiet, and also don't generate much heat (I was using them 
when I was living in Singapore). I replaced a single Dell 1400SC server with 
the above, and they have more capability whilst being quieter and cooler. I 
have the VMs setup in a way that I can turn off one of the Microservers without 
impacting much functionality in case it's a really hot day etc.

The rest of the PCs are scattered around the place e.g. a Mac Mini runs Windows 
Media Centre, both my wife and I have a main laptop, we have a shared desktop, 
a HP Slate 500 tablet etc. We don't have them all on at the same time, but even 
if they were, laptops aren't particularly noisy :)

http://www.adopenstatic.com/temp/homenetwork2.jpg is my current physical setup.

I think the other thing that reduces overhead is that I've writen a decent 
amount of documentation (design docs, end user guides etc.). Also, things are 
setup in a corporate rather than SOHO manner e.g. access to everything is by AD 
identity (e.g. 801.1x for wireless through to print queues, mailboxes, scanning 
etc.), which centralises/minimises identity management overhead.

So, if we have someone staying with us for a week, I create an AD account and 
put that account in some groups (depending on what they need access to). They 
can read the end user services guide to work out what they need to do to get 
access to something. Since our machines are domain joined, they can use any 
free computer in the place. When they leave, I just delete/disable their 
account. In the event a machine goes bad for some reason, I can re-image it 
from the backups on the WHS2011.

Now, I don't have teenage kids, so I don't have to deal with the issues that 
this might throw into the mix :)

Cheers
Ken


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2013 9:45 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Home setup


Ken,

Out of interest how loud is your computer room (based on 7pc's and 3 servers?)
On Mar 14, 2013 8:05 AM, "Ken Schaefer" 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
The absolute "lowest maintenance" solution just involves turning everything 
off. Unfortunately that usually fails other tests (having certain functionality 
available for use).

Without understanding where your time is going, I think it'd be hard to guess 
what remediation measures to take. I don't think there's anything intrinsically 
wrong with the setup you have today. But obviously there is a need to cut down 
on the time/effort you're spending - just need to understand what you're 
spending time on.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2013 4:22 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Home setup


There's no 'major's issue, but it feels like there is always something that 
needs to be done with os.
I do use WU/MU, but in recent times I've had a few failures which have cost me 
lots of time to fix.
Virus/malware not issue as regular scans and daily update checks.
PC and server have auto backups setup.
I have noticed a nice amount of dust on front of cases and CPU heatsinks with 
too much dust, but that's not a biggie...

Maybe I should have asked for the 'lowest maintenance' solution.

RE: [OT] Home setup

[Katherine Moss]

Hey guys?  Don’t forget Windows server 2012 Essentials; sounds perfect for what 
you are trying to do.  And then keep the standard server for hyper-V, but use 
Essentials for other matters; Essentials can be in the network with another 
server OS of a higher rank, I believe?  Somebody correct me on that though.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:30 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Home setup

Wish Windows Home Server still existed. :(

A VM helps scrape viruses and malware off a virtual install, restore points 
don't begin to fix that issue.

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
In terms of patching, do you have this handled automatically at the moment? Or 
do you just wish to automate this? You could use WSUS, or MU but with patches 
auto-downloaded and installed (at least to cover the Windows bit)

In terms of “PC worked yesterday but doesn’t work today” – are you having 
hardware issues? Or software issues? If the latter, I don’t see how a VM will 
help if people are screwing things up. Look at Restore Points (and removing 
Admin access) instead. Or is there some other kind of issue?

Even though you say “usual things”, that really doesn’t enlighten us much per 
se. FWIW I have 7 PCs and 3 physical servers (+about 8 always on VMs), plus a 
few phones, tablets etc., but I don’t consider I spend much time on keeping it 
running. Most maintenance activities (like backups) are automated (e.g. clients 
backup to Windows Home Server, patching is handled by WSUS)

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2013 2:52 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Home setup


All of it..
Patches, updates, failed updates, PC worked yesterday but not today.. usual 
things.
On Mar 13, 2013 1:48 PM, "Ken Schaefer" 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
What area of maintenance do you want to reduce?

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2013 2:04 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Home setup


Hey all..

I'm looking at re-jigging my home PC's and network setups in an attempt to 
lower the levels of required maintenance.

Currently have following
* Server - Core 2 Quad, 8gb ram, raid 5 array (<2tb), + 2 x 2tb hdds, server 
2008 R2 OS (non domain) with hyper-v vm's.
* Desktop - Core 2 Duo, 8gb ram, 4 bed's, Win 7, printer, scanner, several dev  
VM's (vmware), apps, etc..
* Media PC x 2 - old Dell mini desktops with extra hdd's, xbmc, Skype, 802.11n 
wifi cards and with wireless keyboards.
* plus laptops, tablet, phones...

I was looking at keeping with 2008 r2 server (just beef it up more), and then 
having thin clients to replace desktop, and new terminal for kids, and also 
replacing media PC's with a 'media device's of one sort or another.

What are you using?
I would welcome people's experiences in this area and suggestions.



--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: Running code snippets

[Katherine Moss]

Use Paypal when and if you can at all times when possible; keeps people from 
knowing your info; especially in international transactions.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Greg Keogh
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 8:39 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Running code snippets

After browsing around and experimenting I have decided that LINQPad is a vital 
tool to have for this sort of thing, and more. It has improved greatly since I 
last looked at it, so I've even decided to get a Premium licence key. It's just 
a shame I can do my snippet editing and testing from within VS2012.

I now have to figure out who will rip me off the least for the $58 purchase: 
Westpac VISA or PayPal. The former has a 3.5% international transaction free, 
I'm not sure how PayPal works but I'll try to compare.

Greg

RE: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

[Katherine Moss]

But this would also be a good place for this discussion, maybe?  Since I am 
planning on learning how to develop on the .net framework for now, should I try 
learning, since there are a few ways in which one could compile an application, 
does it matter whether 32 bit, 64 bit, or the any CPU option is used?  And what 
benefit would one over the other provide?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 5:49 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ricom/archive/2009/06/10/visual-studio-why-is-there-no-64-bit-version.aspx

What’s the Resource Editing with controls issue?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:21 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

Heh.  My question would be "Why?"  And should third part software manufacturers 
that write code for Windows follow your lead in this?  Yes, I know that the x86 
version of VS2012 produces x64 code, but certain aspects of VS2012 are poorly 
integrated with its production.   Resource editing with controls, for instance.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:14 AM, David Kean 
mailto:david.k...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
We have no intention on delivering a x64 version.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:05 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

When I download from MSDN it only lists 32 bit versions.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:02 AM, mike smith 
mailto:meski...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I thought there was an intent to release an x64 version this time around, but a 
fast google didn't show one.



On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Dang, it shouldn’t be.  What was Microsoft on when they made that decision?  
LOL.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 4:10 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

AFAIK, Visual Studio is still a 32bit application, so possibly related.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I was wondering if this is the case with anyone else using the 64 bit version 
of Windows 8, it's the case for me, and I think that if the OS is 64 bit, then 
shouldn't most of the tools and applications running on it also be?  Thanks for 
your input.




--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills




--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

[Katherine Moss]

Well, it appears that I just made a fool of my self … again.  I just think that 
if the way of the world now is using 64-bit processes, then everything should 
compile as 64-bit now so that admins and users don’t have to keep track of 
double the program directories.  Drives me nuts, you know.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 5:49 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ricom/archive/2009/06/10/visual-studio-why-is-there-no-64-bit-version.aspx

What’s the Resource Editing with controls issue?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:21 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

Heh.  My question would be "Why?"  And should third part software manufacturers 
that write code for Windows follow your lead in this?  Yes, I know that the x86 
version of VS2012 produces x64 code, but certain aspects of VS2012 are poorly 
integrated with its production.   Resource editing with controls, for instance.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:14 AM, David Kean 
mailto:david.k...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
We have no intention on delivering a x64 version.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:05 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

When I download from MSDN it only lists 32 bit versions.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 9:02 AM, mike smith 
mailto:meski...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I thought there was an intent to release an x64 version this time around, but a 
fast google didn't show one.



On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Dang, it shouldn’t be.  What was Microsoft on when they made that decision?  
LOL.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 4:10 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

AFAIK, Visual Studio is still a 32bit application, so possibly related.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I was wondering if this is the case with anyone else using the 64 bit version 
of Windows 8, it's the case for me, and I think that if the OS is 64 bit, then 
shouldn't most of the tools and applications running on it also be?  Thanks for 
your input.




--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills




--
Meski
 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

[Katherine Moss]

Dang, it shouldn't be.  What was Microsoft on when they made that decision?  
LOL.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 4:10 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command 
prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

AFAIK, Visual Studio is still a 32bit application, so possibly related.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
I was wondering if this is the case with anyone else using the 64 bit version 
of Windows 8, it's the case for me, and I think that if the OS is 64 bit, then 
shouldn't most of the tools and applications running on it also be?  Thanks for 
your input.

Does anybody know why the visual studio 2012 developer command prompt points to a 32-bit path when on a 64-bit OS?

[Katherine Moss]

I was wondering if this is the case with anyone else using the 64 bit version 
of Windows 8, it's the case for me, and I think that if the OS is 64 bit, then 
shouldn't most of the tools and applications running on it also be?  Thanks for 
your input.  

RE: Super Sync Sports

[Katherine Moss]

I don't think it died, but I do think that they dropped support for ASP.net 
technologies a long time ago.  But in terms of MVC and razor, I think it's the 
extension that looks the most funny to me.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Piers Williams
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 1:10 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Super Sync Sports


Did Dreamweaver die? I wasn't told.

On 1 Mar 2013 13:00, "Michael Ridland" 
mailto:rid...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Many companies try to create WYSIWYG editors but they never work well enough 
> so they die.
>

RE: Super Sync Sports

[Katherine Moss]

Thank you all for the informative answers.  I appreciate them.  That makes 
sense actually, since Server-Side technologies are very good for the 
interactive sites that we run today.  Though I have seen plain HTML files with 
.aspx extensions before.  And speaking of MVC, does anyone here ever use the 
default view which uses .aspx to render?  The razor view file extensions look 
funky to me; probably just me, but it seems that the razor view is like going 
back to classic ASP 3.0 or something from the 1990's the way it's described.  
I've not learned it yet, though it's on my list.  What do you guys think?  .  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Nathan Schultz
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 3:12 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Super Sync Sports

I'm half way through an ASP MVC4 project at the moment which renders HTML5. 
It's going really well so far.
Instead of coming up with my own HTML5 design, I've decided to use 
Foundation3's, which has some really nice features in automatically adapting 
for mobile devices and tablets.

Similarly to the Twitter bootstrap mentioned before, there's a NuGet Package to 
install all of Foundation3 pre-requisites into an MVC4
project: http://www.nuget.org/packages/Foundation3_MVC4
It includes a Master Page and a sample page. The only thing I've done myself is 
replaced the default MVC "View" scaffolding templates with my own based on 
Foundation3. But replacing these templates is something I'd normally do anyway.



On 1 March 2013 14:50, Michael Minutillo  wrote:
> @Katherine - It's really not that fair to compare HTML5 and 
> ASP.NET/Phalanger. HTML5 (and JavaScript and CSS3) are all client side 
> technologies. These pieces combine in the browser to provide a user 
> experience but at some stage it seems likely that this experience will 
> need to get data or perform some kind of action on the users behalf 
> and at that point a server-side technology like ASP.NET/PHP/Node.js 
> (or any of a million other choices) is going to be required. ASP.NET 
> (WebForms or MVC) is about abstracting away HTTP. A request comes to 
> the server and a response is sent back. You can have your MVC View (or 
> your WebForms page) render perfectly valid HTML5 and produce the same 
> user experience. You probably could serve up the HTML as just plain 
> HTML documents and satisfy the request/response parts of the app with WebApi 
> (or ServiceStack or node.js or anything else).
> In fact, from a caching perspective that can be a good idea :)
>
> Michael M. Minutillo
> Indiscriminate Information Sponge
> http://codermike.com
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Katherine Moss 
> 
> wrote:
>>
>> Well, maybe I should ask this as a question.  I know that most sites 
>> built on Microsoft use either ASP.net or Phalanger.  So, be honest; 
>> when is ASP.net appropriate and when is plain HTML appropriate?  And 
>> also, I think I've seen this before; a page on a web site that might 
>> have an ASPX extension, but it's really just an HTML page with no 
>> code behind. Maybe I'm the dumb one here.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
>> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
>> On Behalf Of Mark Thompson
>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:44 PM
>> To: 'Paul Evrat'; 'ozDotNet'
>>
>>
>> Subject: RE: Super Sync Sports
>>
>>
>>
>> Um, I might be missing something, but why not just use Visual Studio 
>> as your HTML5 editor? I haven't tested it with the express editions, 
>> but according to the Product details I can't see any reason why it 
>> wouldn't
>> work:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/products/visual-studio-expr
>> ess-for-web#product-express-web
>>
>>
>>
>> You may also want to have a look at WebMatrix 2 which is also free 
>> and supports a whole range of different languages:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/
>>
>>
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
>> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
>> On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
>> Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2013 4:47 PM
>> To: katherine.m...@gordon.edu; ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
>> Subject: RE: Super Sync Sports
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm asking if you can mix html5 features from an editor then 
>> programme .net into it for the back end functionality? Also if there 
>> is a good and free html5 editor for the purpose. Do you can judge my 

RE: Super Sync Sports

[Katherine Moss]

Well, maybe I should ask this as a question.  I know that most sites built on 
Microsoft use either ASP.net or Phalanger.  So, be honest; when is ASP.net 
appropriate and when is plain HTML appropriate?  And also, I think I’ve seen 
this before; a page on a web site that might have an ASPX extension, but it’s 
really just an HTML page with no code behind. Maybe I’m the dumb one here.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Mark Thompson
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:44 PM
To: 'Paul Evrat'; 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Super Sync Sports

Um, I might be missing something, but why not just use Visual Studio as your 
HTML5 editor? I haven’t tested it with the express editions, but according to 
the Product details I can’t see any reason why it wouldn’t work:

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng/products/visual-studio-express-for-web#product-express-web

You may also want to have a look at WebMatrix 2 which is also free and supports 
a whole range of different languages:

http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/

-Mark

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2013 4:47 PM
To: katherine.m...@gordon.edu<mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>; 
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: RE: Super Sync Sports


I'm asking if you can mix html5 features from an editor then programme .net 
into it for the back end functionality? Also if there is a good and free html5 
editor for the purpose. Do you can judge my level, I'm using vb express / 
asp.net ecpress edition ..



Katherine Moss mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> 
wrote:
By the way, where does ASP.net come into that?  Writing a site in all HTML with 
no .net code is ... primitive.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:30 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Re: Super Sync Sports


Immersed in snow on my android phone??!! Amateur question - is there a  html5 
editor (pref free) that can integrate with visual studio for programming? Or is 
expressions the only thing?



Preet Sangha mailto:preetsan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Bloody interesting look at the future of immersive computing.

On 28 February 2013 11:33, David Connors 
mailto:da...@connors.com>> wrote:
All HTML5. This is amazing.

http://www.chrome.com/supersyncsports/

--
David Connors
da...@connors.com<mailto:da...@connors.com> | M +61 417 189 
363
Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors
Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors



--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

RE: Super Sync Sports

[Katherine Moss]

By the way, where does ASP.net come into that?  Writing a site in all HTML with 
no .net code is ... primitive.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:30 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: Re: Super Sync Sports


Immersed in snow on my android phone??!! Amateur question - is there a  html5 
editor (pref free) that can integrate with visual studio for programming? Or is 
expressions the only thing?



Preet Sangha mailto:preetsan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Bloody interesting look at the future of immersive computing.

On 28 February 2013 11:33, David Connors 
mailto:da...@connors.com>> wrote:
All HTML5. This is amazing.

http://www.chrome.com/supersyncsports/

--
David Connors
da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 
363
Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors
Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors



--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

RE: Resharper and SQL-CLR

[Katherine Moss]

Thanks for the clarification.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:41 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Resharper and SQL-CLR

It's in database projects. This will give you all you need to know for VS2012 : 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12038952/sql-clr-project-in-vs2012

On 20 February 2013 10:57, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Darn.  Looks like I need to get with their blog then.  LOL.  I was unaware of 
that.  And by the way, I'm nowhere up to that level yet, but which template is 
for SQL/CLR?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 6:04 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Resharper and SQL-CLR

All

Thought this might save someone some time. There is a known issue with 
Resharper (7.1.1) and SQL-CLR stored projects.

In short, most of the code formatting and error highlighting in Resharper does 
not work with these types of projects. They are talking about fixing it in an 
upcoming release.

Cheers

Grant

RE: Resharper and SQL-CLR

[Katherine Moss]

Darn.  Looks like I need to get with their blog then.  LOL.  I was unaware of 
that.  And by the way, I'm nowhere up to that level yet, but which template is 
for SQL/CLR?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 6:04 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Resharper and SQL-CLR

All

Thought this might save someone some time. There is a known issue with 
Resharper (7.1.1) and SQL-CLR stored projects.

In short, most of the code formatting and error highlighting in Resharper does 
not work with these types of projects. They are talking about fixing it in an 
upcoming release.

Cheers

Grant

Visual Studio 2012: the okay button seems to be missing when you try to create a project via the online template gallery

[Katherine Moss]

Hi,
Has anybody noticed this?  I was fooling around in VS 2012, and I was looking 
at the list of samples offered in new project> online>C#>Samples, and then 
there are all of the different cool categories.  I tried to click through a few 
of them so that I could somewhat populate my samples directory, but even with 
all defaults taken, the okay button never showed up at the end of the dialog.  
What's up with that?  Did I do something ridiculously stupid, like, did I 
forget something?  Thanks.  

RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in C#?

[Katherine Moss]

And something else very funny; I could never seem to see my line numbers even 
when I had the box checked in VS options.  

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:53 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in 
C#?

Text Editor Options for indenting, new line rules etc.
Brace completion is Productivity Power Tools options.

|-Original Message-
|From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- 
|boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Moss
|Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2013 3:20 PM
|To: ozDotNet
|Subject: RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your 
|braces
in
|C#?
|
|Oh okay.  That makes sense.  And just so I know.  Tell me again how to
allow
|Visual Studio 2012 to auto-insert the closing braces and other things 
|in
pairs.  It's
|with the Power Tools Extension, right?  I was looking at that, though I
couldn't
|seem to find that particular set of options, for that would certainly 
|make
my life
|easier.
|
|
|
|From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- 
|boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
|Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:42 PM
|To: ozDotNet
|Subject: Re: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your 
|braces
in
|C#?
|
|
|
|They don't quite go anywhere you want.  They can go in far more places 
|than
are
|actually necessary but let not worry about that for now.  You have a 
|set
for the
|namespace. You have a set for each method or property in that namespace.
You
|have a set for any compound statements. You have a set for any array 
|initialisation.  I've probably forgotten some cases at the moment but
that's
|probably 99% of cases there.  You can also, for example, put them in 
|case statements within a switch (oh yeah, switch statements have them 
|as well)
but
|the break statement makes them superfluous.  Although it would probably
make
|them more consistent.
|
|
|
|Hmm, it's entirely possible I'm not understanding what you're saying.
|
|
|
|
|David
|
|"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes  will fall like 
|a
house of
|cards... checkmate!"
| -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
|
|
|
|On 14 February 2013 13:33, Katherine Moss 
|wrote:
|
|Please correct me if I am wrong on this.  You're telling me that braces 
|are
free for
|the programmer to place them where they want in C#?  I know that in 
|most of the demos I have from books, there are always braces in 
|particular places
every
|time with no fail.  Is this a C# convention, or is this a standard that
Wily is using?
|For instance:
|
|Namespace Demo
|
|{
|
|Static void main(string [] args)
|
|}
|
|{
|
|Console.WriteLine("this is a demo");
|
|Console.ReadKey();
|
|}
|
|}
|
|}
|
|Or something like that.  I'm not sure since I don't have the file open 
|in
front of
|me, but are you saying that is just a chosen way of writing it and that
people are
|relatively free with braces?  And about other languages.  I chose C#
because it
|offers the power of C++ without the complexity.  And I plan to learn F# 
|as
well
|one of these days, though isn't that more of a math language for
calculation
|programs and such like that?  But thanks to Roslyn, I can learn easier 
|with
C#
|interactive.  And I don't use VB for moral reasons.  No offense to 
|those on
this list
|who love it, but isn't it kind of the malware author's language?
|
|From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- 
|boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
|Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:50 PM
|
|

RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in C#?

[Katherine Moss]

Thanks.  And that reminds me even further of how I was supposed to provide a 
demo to Getbrains on how ReSharper is less than steller with screen readers; I 
had a demo of it installed (ReSharper 6), and every time I would have ReSharper 
complete a set of braces for me, my screen reader would like lose focus and I'd 
have to like navigate away from VS for a bit until I could get it focus.  Boy 
do I love that extension though despite that.  And once I get the demo out so 
that jetbrains can see what they need to fix, I think they are willing to allow 
their extension to work in conjunction with screen readers.  I told them that 
if it didn't have the problems that it does, then they'd have me as a customer.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 12:00 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in 
C#?

Someone else would have to answer that.  We're still using VS 2008 where I'm 
working.  In fact, we still have projects stuck in 2005 and 2003.  I've had 
that behaviour in Eclipse and it takes some getting used to. Especially if you 
normally add the end brace yourself.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 14 February 2013 15:19, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Oh okay.  That makes sense.  And just so I know.  Tell me again how to allow 
Visual Studio 2012 to auto-insert the closing braces and other things in pairs. 
 It's with the Power Tools Extension, right?  I was looking at that, though I 
couldn't seem to find that particular set of options, for that would certainly 
make my life easier.

RE: IIS has no folders

[Katherine Moss]

I can't really offer much on this one, since I've never seen it before, but 
I'll have to agree with the consensus that IIS isn't installed.  Or it is 
partially installed is more like it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:57 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: IIS has no folders

Thanks for the responses - we thought the same, and double checked all that. 
Will look at it again. Will post here if we work it out.

Cheers

On 14 February 2013 12:40, Stephen Price 
mailto:step...@perthprojects.com>> wrote:

It looks to me like IIS isn't installed.

Check under control panel, programs, add windows features/components. Visual 
studio may be using IIS express or Cassini
On Feb 14, 2013 10:01 AM, "Grant Maw" 
mailto:grant@gmail.com>> wrote:
All

Has anyone seen this behaviour before? We have no Application Pools folder or 
Sites folder in this IIS8 instance of IIS.

We know IIS is running because we can run websites that are auto-created by 
Visual Studio when loading up a project.

Removed/reinstalled all the components etc, to no avail.

I am posting here so that in 30 seconds I will work it out myself, but failing 
that, any thoughts on what's going on would be appreciated :)

Thanks

Grant

RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in C#?

[Katherine Moss]

Oh okay.  That makes sense.  And just so I know.  Tell me again how to allow 
Visual Studio 2012 to auto-insert the closing braces and other things in pairs. 
 It's with the Power Tools Extension, right?  I was looking at that, though I 
couldn't seem to find that particular set of options, for that would certainly 
make my life easier.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:42 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in 
C#?

They don't quite go anywhere you want.  They can go in far more places than are 
actually necessary but let not worry about that for now.  You have a set for 
the namespace. You have a set for each method or property in that namespace.  
You have a set for any compound statements. You have a set for any array 
initialisation.  I've probably forgotten some cases at the moment but that's 
probably 99% of cases there.  You can also, for example, put them in case 
statements within a switch (oh yeah, switch statements have them as well) but 
the break statement makes them superfluous.  Although it would probably make 
them more consistent.

Hmm, it's entirely possible I'm not understanding what you're saying.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

On 14 February 2013 13:33, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
Please correct me if I am wrong on this.  You're telling me that braces are 
free for the programmer to place them where they want in C#?  I know that in 
most of the demos I have from books, there are always braces in particular 
places every time with no fail.  Is this a C# convention, or is this a standard 
that Wily is using?  For instance:
Namespace Demo
{
Static void main(string [] args)
}
{
Console.WriteLine("this is a demo");
Console.ReadKey();
}
}
}
Or something like that.  I'm not sure since I don't have the file open in front 
of me, but are you saying that is just a chosen way of writing it and that 
people are relatively free with braces?  And about other languages.  I chose C# 
because it offers the power of C++ without the complexity.  And I plan to learn 
F# as well one of these days, though isn't that more of a math language for 
calculation programs and such like that?  But thanks to Roslyn, I can learn 
easier with C# interactive.  And I don't use VB for moral reasons.  No offense 
to those on this list who love it, but isn't it kind of the malware author's 
language?
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:50 PM

RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in C#?

[Katherine Moss]

I selected C# over VB because in my opinion, C# is a lot more readable than VB 
is, and every application in .net that I am in any way associated with uses C#, 
I think.  So it would be impractical for me to learn a language for a project 
if a project uses another language, right?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:11 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in 
C#?


My suggestion would extend on Bill's: write some example code in VB.NET, to get 
familiar with .NET assemblies etc - then use one of the code translators to see 
the equivalent in C#. That will give you a start in first laying out the 
obvious code structure (VB is much more explanatory / verbose in that regard), 
and comparing what C# requires for code structures (beyond the braces) is 
educational as well.

Once your code becomes more complex, you won't want to use the 
"write-in-VB-and-translate" approach: mainly because you will either recognize 
the inherent superiority of VB.NET over C# :) and/or the free / demo VB to C# 
translators can't handle some more complex code.



Ian Thomas

Victoria Park, Western Australia

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:45 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in 
C#?

If looking for a programing language that is more suited to a text reader,

then I'd suggest VB, where blocks are more self descriptive, eg:  If ...

Then ... Else .. End If.

RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in C#?

[Katherine Moss]

Do you mean to say that whoever said that (I think it was Ian Griffiths, is 
right?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Heinrich Breedt
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in 
C#?


On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Katherine Moss 
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu>> wrote:
And I plan to learn F# as well one of these days, though isn't that more of a 
math language for calculation programs and such like that?

HAHA!! got to remember that next time I talk to the erlang and haskell guys lol


--
Heinrich Breedt

"Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking." - 
William B. Sprague

RE: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in C#?

[Katherine Moss]

Please correct me if I am wrong on this.  You're telling me that braces are 
free for the programmer to place them where they want in C#?  I know that in 
most of the demos I have from books, there are always braces in particular 
places every time with no fail.  Is this a C# convention, or is this a standard 
that Wily is using?  For instance:
Namespace Demo
{
Static void main(string [] args)
}
{
Console.WriteLine("this is a demo");
Console.ReadKey();
}
}
}
Or something like that.  I'm not sure since I don't have the file open in front 
of me, but are you saying that is just a chosen way of writing it and that 
people are relatively free with braces?  And about other languages.  I chose C# 
because it offers the power of C++ without the complexity.  And I plan to learn 
F# as well one of these days, though isn't that more of a math language for 
calculation programs and such like that?  But thanks to Roslyn, I can learn 
easier with C# interactive.  And I don't use VB for moral reasons.  No offense 
to those on this list who love it, but isn't it kind of the malware author's 
language?
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 7:50 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: does anyone know a good technique to keep track of your braces in 
C#?

I'd also add that braces, parentheses, or anything that comes in pairs, should 
be inserted at the same time.  ie, immediately type your opening and closing 
braces and then move your insertion point in between them.  If you're putting 
existing code in new braces, you still try to do this as a single operation.  
either be careful to put them in the correct place at that time, checking to 
make sure they are, or have them inserted for you.  eg, select the code, CTRL + 
K + X, select Visual C#, then select what you want, such as "if".

I do all of this and the only time I've ever had mismatched braces is by 
accidentally deleting one.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama