Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't
surprise me ..
Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but
since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably
create more share for unity
Good news for us C# code poets is that there is a safe haven for the kind
of code we write should Microsoft continue to push their HTML5... Err .. I
mean Internet Explorer only agendas :)
As if there is one market who have zero patience for platform stupidity
it's gaming and we may very well adopt their choices down the road given
they have no time to wait out companies like Adobe and Microsoft .
I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own
gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire
(which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind
in adoption?
On Thursday, September 5, 2013, David Connors wrote:
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Scott Barnes
scott.bar...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'scott.bar...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
uses mono in the way u describe! :)
Seen their actual deployment figures?
100 Unity-based apps are deployed *per second*.
--
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: As without those answers Microsoft can buy all the Nokia's they want in the world but all data internal/external point to the reality of No developer, No party... or...developers, developers,developers and designers :) NEK MUNNIT, Google piles into this thread. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2044746/infiltration-complete-googles-chrome-app-launcher-lands-on-windows.html Add the Tank Riders app ... simple but for day one this is pretty amazeballs.
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
*grumble* htmlt5 ..*grumble*... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:53 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: As without those answers Microsoft can buy all the Nokia's they want in the world but all data internal/external point to the reality of No developer, No party... or...developers, developers,developers and designers :) NEK MUNNIT, Google piles into this thread. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2044746/infiltration-complete-googles-chrome-app-launcher-lands-on-windows.html Add the Tank Riders app ... simple but for day one this is pretty amazeballs.
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
uses mono in the way u describe! :)
When I say close I mean their 2d GUI isn't as ready as it could be but
NoesisGUI framework has also found a way to combine xaml with mono inside
unity3d
So I feel like the pieces are there just not purpose built for app dev
although the SDK is good enough ..
On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, Joseph Cooney wrote:
I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable
class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that.
Step 1. - buy MONOnot the product, the company
Step 2. - Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or
Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms,
including windows phone
Step 3. - every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and
maybe Win8 too
we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'.
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Scott Barnes
scott.bar...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'scott.bar...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual
rants.. but in both cases I was also asked How would you fix all of this
style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response
to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate
out of this should you be In charge of it all?
- Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment
strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of
Namespace or Adopt HTML5 or go away thinking, instead take a page out of
the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile
for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of
developers executing on their Apps (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres
really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than
touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting...
- Design - Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out
and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's
funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by
abstracting designers further away from the developer - designer
workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem
into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming).
I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products
from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on.
Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could
unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft
ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from
Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its adopt win8
or get lost mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming
ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting
whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through
Win8 learning(s)).
Agree? have better idea?
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com
--
w: http://jcooney.net
t: @josephcooney
--
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't
surprise me ..
Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but
since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably
create more share for unity
Good news for us C# code poets is that there is a safe haven for the kind
of code we write should Microsoft continue to push their HTML5... Err .. I
mean Internet Explorer only agendas :)
As if there is one market who have zero patience for platform stupidity
it's gaming and we may very well adopt their choices down the road given
they have no time to wait out companies like Adobe and Microsoft .
I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own
gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire
(which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind
in adoption?
On Thursday, September 5, 2013, David Connors wrote:
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Scott Barnes
scott.bar...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'scott.bar...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
uses mono in the way u describe! :)
Seen their actual deployment figures?
100 Unity-based apps are deployed *per second*.
--
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't
surprise me ..
Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but
since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably
create more share for unity
Good news for us C# code poets is that there is a safe haven for the kind
of code we write should Microsoft continue to push their HTML5... Err .. I
mean Internet Explorer only agendas :)
As if there is one market who have zero patience for platform stupidity
it's gaming and we may very well adopt their choices down the road given
they have no time to wait out companies like Adobe and Microsoft .
I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own
gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire
(which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind
in adoption?
On Thursday, September 5, 2013, David Connors wrote:
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Scott Barnes
scott.bar...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'scott.bar...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
uses mono in the way u describe! :)
Seen their actual deployment figures?
100 Unity-based apps are deployed *per second*.
--
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't surprise me .. Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably create more share for unity [ ... ] I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire (which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind in adoption? I thought the funding figures for Xamarin were interesting. They have 6 mil in cash but also got a recent funding round of 16 mil. I don't know what the equity dilution was for that 16 mil nor why you need it if you cash spend the cash you have but ... they are a very strategic asset for a number of companies. I have no idea why no one has bought them yet. As for doubting Xamarin or Unity would sell ... every man has his price. Spending 500 mil on Xamarin would get MS a lot better return than 7bln for the bottom half of Nokia's corpse. As for XNA ... it is irrelevant. YOu sould have to have rocks in your head to invest in it. Great idea for 2001 but in 2013 it would cripple your revenue as a game dev. Unity gives you one code based across PC/iTard/Android and apparently Sony is on board in a big way for indie games on the PS4. David.
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
My understanding is that Unity3D doesn't let you produce a web client. So we built our own to do web native from the one codebase. Tried to talk to Xamarin about licensing just their compiler to integrate into the web-based IDE we have built, but they stopped talking about having an OEM agreement once they saw some screenshots. (Thought I should state that in case anyone else is thinking of heading down that path) So the plan now is to parse C# to Objective-C for iOS and to Java for Androidunless another option pops up. Perhaps a scripting language on top of C# eventually too, so enable part-time programmers to participate toolooks like there might be a scriptcs session this Sunday at Microsoft office in Brisbane - so will be interesting to see where others are at. Andrew From: David Connors da...@connors.com Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:47 AM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat? On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't surprise me .. Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably create more share for unity [ ... ] I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire (which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind in adoption? I thought the funding figures for Xamarin were interesting. They have 6 mil in cash but also got a recent funding round of 16 mil. I don't know what the equity dilution was for that 16 mil nor why you need it if you cash spend the cash you have but ... they are a very strategic asset for a number of companies. I have no idea why no one has bought them yet. As for doubting Xamarin or Unity would sell ... every man has his price. Spending 500 mil on Xamarin would get MS a lot better return than 7bln for the bottom half of Nokia's corpse. As for XNA ... it is irrelevant. YOu sould have to have rocks in your head to invest in it. Great idea for 2001 but in 2013 it would cripple your revenue as a game dev. Unity gives you one code based across PC/iTard/Android and apparently Sony is on board in a big way for indie games on the PS4. David.
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
I call that model write once, debug everywhere On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.comwrote: I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that. Step 1. - buy MONOnot the product, the company Step 2. - Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms, including windows phone Step 3. - every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and maybe Win8 too we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'. On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual rants.. but in both cases I was also asked How would you fix all of this style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate out of this should you be In charge of it all? - Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of Namespace or Adopt HTML5 or go away thinking, instead take a page out of the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of developers executing on their Apps (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting... - Design - Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by abstracting designers further away from the developer - designer workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming). I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on. Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its adopt win8 or get lost mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through Win8 learning(s)). Agree? have better idea? --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com -- w: http://jcooney.net t: @josephcooney -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
agreed it does beat write once IF conditionX == conditionY THEN debug here ELSE IF X!=Z debug here .. 200 IF/ELSE statements later... debug everywhere :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:31 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: I call that model write once, debug everywhere On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.comwrote: I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that. Step 1. - buy MONOnot the product, the company Step 2. - Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms, including windows phone Step 3. - every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and maybe Win8 too we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'. On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual rants.. but in both cases I was also asked How would you fix all of this style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate out of this should you be In charge of it all? - Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of Namespace or Adopt HTML5 or go away thinking, instead take a page out of the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of developers executing on their Apps (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting... - Design - Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by abstracting designers further away from the developer - designer workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming). I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on. Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its adopt win8 or get lost mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through Win8 learning(s)). Agree? have better idea? --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com -- w: http://jcooney.net t: @josephcooney -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
[OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual rants.. but in both cases I was also asked How would you fix all of this style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate out of this should you be In charge of it all? - Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of Namespace or Adopt HTML5 or go away thinking, instead take a page out of the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of developers executing on their Apps (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting... - Design - Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by abstracting designers further away from the developer - designer workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming). I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on. Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its adopt win8 or get lost mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through Win8 learning(s)). Agree? have better idea? --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com
