RE: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
You should get a Windows Phone. There are no apps for it, so nothing ever changes. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Friday, 3 July 2015 11:27 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story Yeah, when we get major updates to desktop software there is traditionally plenty of warning as you read about it magazines and get preview releases. Phones through don't seem to have the same culture, stuff just arrives, and there are so many apps from so many vendors that I suppose there's no simple way of maintaining awareness of everything that's changing. I certainly have no time or interest to read up on the ecosystem around my phone, after all, it's just a fancy tool and I expect it to work, consistently! I was unfortunately wedged by the urgency of showing someone my pictures and taking photos and suddenly discovering the dramatic UI changes and didn't have time to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over. And yes, I too am confounded with anger by the growing number of weird gestures, verbose notifications and hidden commands on phones. Greg K
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
Yeah, when we get major updates to desktop software there is traditionally plenty of warning as you read about it magazines and get preview releases. Phones through don't seem to have the same culture, stuff just arrives, and there are so many apps from so many vendors that I suppose there's no simple way of maintaining awareness of everything that's changing. I certainly have no time or interest to read up on the ecosystem around my phone, after all, it's just a fancy tool and I expect it to work, consistently! I was unfortunately wedged by the urgency of showing someone my pictures and taking photos and suddenly discovering the dramatic UI changes and didn't have time to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over. And yes, I too am confounded with anger by the growing number of weird gestures, verbose notifications and hidden commands on phones. *Greg K*
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
Hey leave me out of this. ;) You already know my views on how Greg K should be hired by all major companies as a tester. If it can't get past Greg then its a fail. We'd all benefit. On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 at 07:50 David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 at 09:22 Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, so what the hell is happening in the Android phone world. Greg - you make me laugh. Stephen Price - where are you? David. -- David Connors da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
RE: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Friday, 3 July 2015 1:07 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story Ken, lol. so true. There are some underlaying questions that need answering. Like WHY are we still worrying about download quotas? Because we are being robbed. If the bandwidth is there it should be used. The system has a self modifying behaviour of going slow when its being over utilised. Its like putting a speed limit of 40km/hour on a major freeway. Make it the Autobahn! go as fast as you can I’m assuming that this is “tongue in cheek” – you’re talking only about the link between your phone and the tower, but you know that actually getting data from somewhere requires and end-to-end connection.
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
Greg, I don't think this is an Android issue but rather a more universal people issue. I have a development nexus 5 and I was notified about the OS upgrade but chose not to do it because I need it to be on the OS version its on now. The notification is sitting there still, taunting me to upgrade. The problem is, people tend to click important notifications or dialogues without realising what they're doing. In my opinion, this is a symptom of overuse of these prompts to the point where people are barely aware of them. Format C:? All data will be lost!... yes yes, I'm busy go away... oh crap... I'm pretty sure there's also one for whether to download via wifi only. For this reason I tend to avoid using this method to prevent critical problems in apps. It occasionally requires effort to convince a customer of the danger. Its even worse when the accept button happens to be in the same place as another button a user is intending to press. A number of times I've tried to press a button only to have a dialog pop up and be accepted just at the moment of clicking with me having no idea what I just did. My personal awareness of this make me slightly less inclined to ignore such prompts but I still occasional do it. So in your case, some part of the blame is your own and some part is overuse of such notifications. I think significant changes in OS versions are to be expected and ordinarily you would be prepared for them. However, some of the problems you describe are another UI problem I've seen a lot in recent years. Namely, hidden interface components. Everything from long press (been around a while) to invisible magical mystery corners of doom, they're all bad for users. The first time I used windows 8, I had no idea how to do anything. I had to google how to use it. I've stared at web pages wondering how to do something only to eventually discover that when I pointed at something, a button would appear out of nowhere. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 3 July 2015 at 09:22, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a TGIF story that hints at a deep technical and business/culture problem with Android phones and Google. I don't think this problem is so bad on other phone brands, is it? * Last December I downloaded several app updates to my unbranded development Nexus 5 and I didn't read (or understand) one of the screens and I accidentally downloaded a complete OS update and blew $135 in 30 seconds because I wasn't at home on the wireless. I had to ring Telstra and beg them for a discount, and luckily they gave me a $100 discount because I had never exceeded quota before. After rebooting the phone I find it has completely changed appearance to be materiel design and I can't find anything, and some buttons have turned into little darts leaving me floundering to even figure out how to send an SMS. * Two weeks ago I wanted to show some family photos on my phone to a friend. I click the usual Photos icon I'm presented with an unfamiliar incomprehensible screen about synching and Google+ apps. I don't have time to read this woffle, so I click crap everywhere to get out of it and back to my photos. I eventually arrive at the photos and find they have a new arrangement by date group, scroll differently and the older ones I want are missing. I scroll and click until hell froze but I could not find the photos and I was livid with rage that someone had subverted my phone from under my nose. The next day I stick the phone into my PC and eventually found the photos, and I also found an obscure Data Folders menu I previously missed that displays the old photos. After an hour of web searching I could not find a clear explanation for what had changed. It has something to do with the default photo app changing to Google+ (which I don't even voluntarily use). * One week ago I tried to take some photos at a concert and I suddenly find the camera app has completely changed with little preview dots and a weird 3D warping preview and I have no idea what the screen is showing or telling me. Once again I don't have time to sit down and fiddle around with menus and buttons to find the original phone screen, so I guess it's working and I press the button and it looks like it's taking photos. When I get home I discover I have taken no photos at all, but was actually inside some sort of panorama feature that I don't care about or need. By fiddling with the new camera screen menus I eventually find it has 4 modes and one of them is the plain camera. So this vital app changed under my nose and the default was something useless and confusing. You'd think the UI of a phone would be easy to navigate, but after having it for 18 months I still get completely lost trying to find some setting and often stumble into screens that I've never seen before and are incomprehensible
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a TGIF story that hints at a deep technical and business/culture problem with Android phones and Google. I don't think this problem is so bad on other phone brands, is it? * Last December I downloaded several app updates to my unbranded development Nexus 5 and I didn't read (or understand) one of the screens and I accidentally downloaded a complete OS update and blew $135 in 30 seconds because I wasn't at home on the wireless. There's an option that prevents this from happening. Also, you can set cell data monthly limits... I had to ring Telstra and beg them for a discount, and luckily they gave me a $100 discount because I had never exceeded quota before. After rebooting the phone I find it has completely changed appearance to be materiel design and I can't find anything, and some buttons have turned into little darts leaving me floundering to even figure out how to send an SMS. * Two weeks ago I wanted to show some family photos on my phone to a friend. I click the usual Photos icon I'm presented with an unfamiliar incomprehensible screen about synching and Google+ apps. I don't have time to read this woffle, so I click crap everywhere to get out of it and back to my photos. I eventually arrive at the photos and find they have a new arrangement by date group, scroll differently and the older ones I want are missing. I scroll and click until hell froze but I could not find the photos and I was livid with rage that someone had subverted my phone from under my nose. The next day I stick the phone into my PC and eventually found the photos, and I also found an obscure Data Folders menu I previously missed that displays the old photos. After an hour of web searching I could not find a clear explanation for what had changed. It has something to do with the default photo app changing to Google+ (which I don't even voluntarily use). * One week ago I tried to take some photos at a concert and I suddenly find the camera app has completely changed with little preview dots and a weird 3D warping preview and I have no idea what the screen is showing or telling me. Once again I don't have time to sit down and fiddle around with menus and buttons to find the original phone screen, so I guess it's working and I press the button and it looks like it's taking photos. When I get home I discover I have taken no photos at all, but was actually inside some sort of panorama feature that I don't care about or need. By fiddling with the new camera screen menus I eventually find it has 4 modes and one of them is the plain camera. So this vital app changed under my nose and the default was something useless and confusing. You'd think the UI of a phone would be easy to navigate, but after having it for 18 months I still get completely lost trying to find some setting and often stumble into screens that I've never seen before and are incomprehensible (either because I never went there before or the OS or app has silently changed). The other day I was so f**ing angry with the phone's UI and navigation that I threw it across my desk, and it popped into a configuration screen I didn't know existed. Wonders never cease! Okay, so what the hell is happening in the Android phone world. Who's running this circus and who the hell has the right to completely change the OS and UI of vital apps secretly while I'm looking the other way? Imagine if they built aircraft like this ...who'd fly? My sympathies. Microsoft are usually the ones that do this to me with inter-version changes in UI design in Office, OS, and VS. I hate that for similar reasons.
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
Perhaps. I do believe that most of our imposed limitations are artificial fabrications to monetise. By creating a perceived shortage of something, creates an inflated value that would not otherwise have existed. Who says it's worth that? If it was suddenly it was found that there is no shortage of bandwidth the agreed price of said bandwidth would go down drastically. It's much like net neutrality, controlling data speeds for a price, but the inverse, controlling available download quantities for a price. Don't want. On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 at 11:18 Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price *Sent:* Friday, 3 July 2015 1:07 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story Ken, lol. so true. There are some underlaying questions that need answering. Like WHY are we still worrying about download quotas? Because we are being robbed. If the bandwidth is there it should be used. The system has a self modifying behaviour of going slow when its being over utilised. Its like putting a speed limit of 40km/hour on a major freeway. Make it the Autobahn! go as fast as you can I’m assuming that this is “tongue in cheek” – you’re talking only about the link between your phone and the tower, but you know that actually getting data from somewhere requires and end-to-end connection.
RE: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
Bandwidth (and the infrastructure and operations) to support it isn’t free or unlimited. Given that, you need some way of recouping the cost. You could charge everyone the same and rather by queue (you just have to wait for your data), or you can ration by usage (use more, pay more). Bandwidth isn’t any different to any other service in this respect. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Friday, 3 July 2015 1:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story Perhaps. I do believe that most of our imposed limitations are artificial fabrications to monetise. By creating a perceived shortage of something, creates an inflated value that would not otherwise have existed. Who says it's worth that? If it was suddenly it was found that there is no shortage of bandwidth the agreed price of said bandwidth would go down drastically. It's much like net neutrality, controlling data speeds for a price, but the inverse, controlling available download quantities for a price. Don't want. On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 at 11:18 Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Friday, 3 July 2015 1:07 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story Ken, lol. so true. There are some underlaying questions that need answering. Like WHY are we still worrying about download quotas? Because we are being robbed. If the bandwidth is there it should be used. The system has a self modifying behaviour of going slow when its being over utilised. Its like putting a speed limit of 40km/hour on a major freeway. Make it the Autobahn! go as fast as you can I’m assuming that this is “tongue in cheek” – you’re talking only about the link between your phone and the tower, but you know that actually getting data from somewhere requires and end-to-end connection.
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 at 11:27 Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: I was unfortunately wedged by the urgency of showing someone my pictures and taking photos and suddenly discovering the dramatic UI changes and didn't have time to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over. You are definitely the first person I have met who undertakes an operating system upgrade when they're wedged by urgency. I'm not entirely sure why you have such a strong dislike for Material Design that you do... IMO it is finally fulfilling the promise of a non-skeuomorphic design that world+dog has aspired to, but failed to deliver (anything that people liked to use). Google photos is amazeballs - notwithstanding the recent bad press/brain fart it did with that black woman in the us. -- David Connors da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: I never said I dislike Material Design, it's actually quite pleasant (until something else becomes the fad and it all changes overnight). I was only unhappy that it arrived without warning. I can see how you missed it. [ ... ] When I first got the phone I tried to get SMS working, but it was once again utterly incomprehensible and it seemed to be asking me to sell my soul to Google. Come on, surely you're taking the piss. Lollipop's Google Messenger? The SMS app that works like every other SMS app on the planet is hard to use?
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
Perhaps his Ad blocking filtered out the warning messages? On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 at 13:12 David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: I never said I dislike Material Design, it's actually quite pleasant (until something else becomes the fad and it all changes overnight). I was only unhappy that it arrived without warning. I can see how you missed it. [ ... ] When I first got the phone I tried to get SMS working, but it was once again utterly incomprehensible and it seemed to be asking me to sell my soul to Google. Come on, surely you're taking the piss. Lollipop's Google Messenger? The SMS app that works like every other SMS app on the planet is hard to use?
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
There should be a setting to disallow updates on mobile data. I know iOS has this. It's saved me so many times On Friday, 3 July 2015, Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a TGIF story that hints at a deep technical and business/culture problem with Android phones and Google. I don't think this problem is so bad on other phone brands, is it? * Last December I downloaded several app updates to my unbranded development Nexus 5 and I didn't read (or understand) one of the screens and I accidentally downloaded a complete OS update and blew $135 in 30 seconds because I wasn't at home on the wireless. I had to ring Telstra and beg them for a discount, and luckily they gave me a $100 discount because I had never exceeded quota before. After rebooting the phone I find it has completely changed appearance to be materiel design and I can't find anything, and some buttons have turned into little darts leaving me floundering to even figure out how to send an SMS. * Two weeks ago I wanted to show some family photos on my phone to a friend. I click the usual Photos icon I'm presented with an unfamiliar incomprehensible screen about synching and Google+ apps. I don't have time to read this woffle, so I click crap everywhere to get out of it and back to my photos. I eventually arrive at the photos and find they have a new arrangement by date group, scroll differently and the older ones I want are missing. I scroll and click until hell froze but I could not find the photos and I was livid with rage that someone had subverted my phone from under my nose. The next day I stick the phone into my PC and eventually found the photos, and I also found an obscure Data Folders menu I previously missed that displays the old photos. After an hour of web searching I could not find a clear explanation for what had changed. It has something to do with the default photo app changing to Google+ (which I don't even voluntarily use). * One week ago I tried to take some photos at a concert and I suddenly find the camera app has completely changed with little preview dots and a weird 3D warping preview and I have no idea what the screen is showing or telling me. Once again I don't have time to sit down and fiddle around with menus and buttons to find the original phone screen, so I guess it's working and I press the button and it looks like it's taking photos. When I get home I discover I have taken no photos at all, but was actually inside some sort of panorama feature that I don't care about or need. By fiddling with the new camera screen menus I eventually find it has 4 modes and one of them is the plain camera. So this vital app changed under my nose and the default was something useless and confusing. You'd think the UI of a phone would be easy to navigate, but after having it for 18 months I still get completely lost trying to find some setting and often stumble into screens that I've never seen before and are incomprehensible (either because I never went there before or the OS or app has silently changed). The other day I was so f**ing angry with the phone's UI and navigation that I threw it across my desk, and it popped into a configuration screen I didn't know existed. Wonders never cease! Okay, so what the hell is happening in the Android phone world. Who's running this circus and who the hell has the right to completely change the OS and UI of vital apps secretly while I'm looking the other way? Imagine if they built aircraft like this ...who'd fly? *Greg K*
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
You already know my views on how Greg K should be hired by all major companies as a tester. If it can't get past Greg then its a fail. We'd all benefit. Unfortunately, I'm not practically valuable for testing due to religious reasons: I'm a resistentialist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistentialism -- *Greg K*
Re: [OT] Not so amusing phone story
I didn't upgrade the OS during stress time, that happened last December when I didn't read the BEWARE OF THE DOG notification. I never said I dislike Material Design, it's actually quite pleasant (until something else becomes the fad and it all changes overnight). I was only unhappy that it arrived without warning. It also changed the appearance of some command buttons/text and I didn't know what to touch. Although, perhaps the control changes were caused by app and not OS updates (or both). Textra (SMS app) was the worst offender as the buttons suddenly turned into darts which looked like decorations or directions to other screens, not commands at all. When I first got the phone I tried to get SMS working, but it was once again utterly incomprehensible and it seemed to be asking me to sell my soul to Google. Web searches found countless other complaints and everyone suggested I install and use Textra, which went well until a couple of months ago they notified me that it was no longer free and a bright random ad appears at the top of the contact list. Whoopie! *GK* On 3 July 2015 at 14:32, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 at 11:27 Greg Keogh gfke...@gmail.com wrote: I was unfortunately wedged by the urgency of showing someone my pictures and taking photos and suddenly discovering the dramatic UI changes and didn't have time to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over. You are definitely the first person I have met who undertakes an operating system upgrade when they're wedged by urgency. I'm not entirely sure why you have such a strong dislike for Material Design that you do... IMO it is finally fulfilling the promise of a non-skeuomorphic design that world+dog has aspired to, but failed to deliver (anything that people liked to use). Google photos is amazeballs - notwithstanding the recent bad press/brain fart it did with that black woman in the us. -- David Connors da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
