Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:12 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Actually Scott, we have met. On many occasions. You might remember a little Aussie activity that your wife (and yourself) had a lot to do with on Saturdays in Redmond. I'll leave the discussions on future versions of products to the marketing teams. I'll avoid feeding the fire [...] I tend to agree; I don't really see the point of listening to anyone talk about the future of Silverlight. If you want to suggest features, do it, if you want to write a competiting product, do it, if you want to use something else, do it. The whole world doesn't need to know. If you find a use for it; use it, if you don't, don't. Simple. -- silky http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/ Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy of being this signature.
RE: Is Silverlight dead ?
That's also not correct (SLR has always been a build of the CLR). Quirks mode was added so that we don't break applications built against previous versions when we make changes or fix bugs. An example of this recently was when my team fixed a bug in Stream in 4.0 that caused a couple of Silverlight 2 3 apps to break because they were relying on the old (buggy) behavior. The old behavior kicks in when we see an app built against an earlier version. It has nothing to do with the runtime. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:00 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Silverlight dead ? The quirks mode is only due to Silverlight 4 switching over to the CLR instead of the SLR, which also raises a point that you can bake your own version selection tool via registry hack(s) to give it a kind of fake-quasi-poor-mans side by side version. Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:50 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: That post is a little incorrect. Silverlight is always in-place release - we never support side-by-side versions. However, we do have quirks mode that allows Silverlight 2 apps to run under Silverlight 4 for example and maintain Silverlight 2 behavior. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tiang Cheng Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:57 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Silverlight dead ? Paul Stovell has a post about the future of silverlight, along with info on how updates will be handled with Microsoft. http://www.paulstovell.com/silverlight-is-ie6 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Eddie de Bear Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2010 12:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Silverlight dead ? Oh, and from the Silverlight blog.. http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/the-future-of-silverlight/ It just covers the innovate/standardize cycle.. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.com wrote: I think a lot of this has come about from a blog post by Scott Barnes.. It pretty much sums up what he has heard. The summary is: Windows Team are dominant inside Microsoft Windows Team prefer unmanaged code, so anything .Net really isn't viewed in a good light The Dev Team (Scott Guthrie) are pushing WPF/Silverlight HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript can do pretty cool things and are cross platform, tech independent. Does this mean Silverlight is dead? Nope.. I don't think so. I suspect that Silverlight will continue to exist as it will be able to evolve faster than future versions of standards (HTML5 has been in the works for how long?). This also applies to flash.. Flash and Silverlight will continue to be the forefront of new things on the web, but new features will be taken from both and get added to future versions of HTML. Well, that's how I see the world :) On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Richard Jones rjones1...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to start a flame war however I have been talking to some fellow developers and they mentioned that Microsoft is preferring to support HTML5 over silverlight. I think this is speculation to say the least. Anyway, I don't get it, when Microsoft are about to release Windows phone7 which uses Silverlight. Can anyone anyone confirm this is the case? Regards, Richard -- EDDIE DE BEAR Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear -- EDDIE DE BEAR Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear
RE: Is Silverlight dead ?
Some people want to know whether it's worth investing in a platform - i.e. will it have a foreseeable future, or is it a dead end? Cheers Ken -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of silky Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2010 3:19 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Silverlight dead ? On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:12 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Actually Scott, we have met. On many occasions. You might remember a little Aussie activity that your wife (and yourself) had a lot to do with on Saturdays in Redmond. I'll leave the discussions on future versions of products to the marketing teams. I'll avoid feeding the fire [...] I tend to agree; I don't really see the point of listening to anyone talk about the future of Silverlight. If you want to suggest features, do it, if you want to write a competiting product, do it, if you want to use something else, do it. The whole world doesn't need to know. If you find a use for it; use it, if you don't, don't. Simple.
Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Some people want to know whether it's worth investing in a platform - i.e. will it have a foreseeable future, or is it a dead end? Sure, but how do you rate such a thing? Based on requirements and context. Evangelists (both at Microsoft and not at Microsoft) just talk from a biased point of view. We all do. I see no need to listen to that; just try and rate as objectively as possible. I agree its fair to wonder if it's being EOL'd, but it clearly isn't. End of story. Cheers Ken -- silky http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/ Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy of being this signature.
Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
David with glasses? the one who falls asleep allot after 1x beer? aren't you a tester or something? Anyway, I am more than happy to openly debate and discuss my opinions / remarks but i think the attack posture you took was misguided and definitely not accurate assessment of the situation. Geek fame is over-rated and i make zero profit off having this attention if anything it could have the opposite effect - I only traveled down this path as it puts ? above peoples heads around the WPF/Silverlight future(s), casts a bright light onto the Windows team and their behavior and actually puts the DevDiv marketing team(s) on notice. Its fine to be a DevDiv cheer leader, whatever lights your candle, but don't drink too much of the kool-aid, save some room for some open constructive thinking. Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 5:12 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Actually Scott, we have met. On many occasions. You might remember a little Aussie activity that your wife (and yourself) had a lot to do with on Saturdays in Redmond. I'll leave the discussions on future versions of products to the marketing teams. I'll avoid feeding the fire and concentrate on what we, DevDiv, does best; develop great platforms. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:56 PM To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: RE: Is Silverlight dead ? RE: David Kean. David, we've never meet so i'm guessing you're assuming either the worst or prefer character attacks vs answering the hard questions ;) like is WPF is Dead? given you have @microsoft.com how about we spend more energy in clarifying the remarks instead of ad hominem attacks? - that or learn to evangelize more effectively :) - as you will note, i've consistently said i'm a fan of WPF and Silverlight and THUS why the motivation behind what i have done to draw attention to the reality of the future of both WPF/Silverlight given the current internal climate. RE: Silverlight is Dead. Silverlight isn't dead. It's just got question marks above how it will affect the market and more to the point where this bus is heading so to speak. You can hear my thoughts on this in a number of podcasts floating around the place (Sparkling Client will have one up soon and one via Talkingshop Downunder) to quote myself: ..way Microsoft to date knows how is to either spend majority of its focus on convincing developers that Silverlight is the better option.. I'm simply about highlighting the disconnect here and if the Windows 8 / IE teams of today think that Silverlight / WPF is something they can deprecate because they dislike people in DevDiv or its current model then think again, as this is one of those rare moments in time where you have a hung jury in terms of which of the two is really the best bet... So not sure where David etc are drawing thine inspiration from in declaring i am flip flopping over my preferences for Silverlight? given its the whole heart soul of this whole debate - that and putting focus back on WPF and asking a big question Where's this going. RE: Motivation. Again, you can read why i was motivated to post the thoughts i have etc via my blog. The main reason was to circumvent the David Keans of the Microsoft internal as typically these types of personalities often will squash left field opinions for fear of throwing the brand itself into question or constructive criticism. At times these folks really need to get out of the Redmond bubble, jump on some planes, visit folks at the cubicle level and not at the TechEd like cheerleader-thons and one can soon realize fast that what the Redmond postcode thinks vs whats reality are vastly different. Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com
Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: David with glasses? the one who falls asleep allot after 1x beer? aren't you a tester or something? Anyway, I am more than happy to openly debate and discuss my opinions / remarks but i think the attack posture you took was misguided and definitely not accurate assessment of the situation. Geek fame is over-rated and i make zero profit off having this attention if anything it could have the opposite effect - I only traveled down this path as it puts ? above peoples heads around the WPF/Silverlight future(s), casts a bright light onto the Windows team and their behavior and actually puts the DevDiv marketing team(s) on notice. Please, say something directly useful or take it off list (or on your blog)? Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com -- silky http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/ Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy of being this signature.
RE: Is Silverlight dead ?
David with glasses? the one who falls asleep allot after 1x beer? aren't you a tester or something? Urrh, can this stuff be kept offlist please? -- Greg
Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
Sorry, will take it offline. Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: David with glasses? the one who falls asleep allot after 1x beer? aren't you a tester or something? Urrh, can this stuff be kept offlist please? -- Greg
RE: Is Silverlight dead ?
Here's a good post by Nick Kramer on the subject: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/nickkramer/archive/2010/09/11/how-does-silverlight-compatibility-work.aspx -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Kean Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:22 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Silverlight dead ? That's also not correct (SLR has always been a build of the CLR). Quirks mode was added so that we don't break applications built against previous versions when we make changes or fix bugs. An example of this recently was when my team fixed a bug in Stream in 4.0 that caused a couple of Silverlight 2 3 apps to break because they were relying on the old (buggy) behavior. The old behavior kicks in when we see an app built against an earlier version. It has nothing to do with the runtime. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:00 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Silverlight dead ? The quirks mode is only due to Silverlight 4 switching over to the CLR instead of the SLR, which also raises a point that you can bake your own version selection tool via registry hack(s) to give it a kind of fake-quasi-poor-mans side by side version. Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 4:50 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: That post is a little incorrect. Silverlight is always in-place release - we never support side-by-side versions. However, we do have quirks mode that allows Silverlight 2 apps to run under Silverlight 4 for example and maintain Silverlight 2 behavior. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tiang Cheng Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:57 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Silverlight dead ? Paul Stovell has a post about the future of silverlight, along with info on how updates will be handled with Microsoft. http://www.paulstovell.com/silverlight-is-ie6 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Eddie de Bear Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2010 12:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Silverlight dead ? Oh, and from the Silverlight blog.. http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/the-future-of-silverlight/ It just covers the innovate/standardize cycle.. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.com wrote: I think a lot of this has come about from a blog post by Scott Barnes.. It pretty much sums up what he has heard. The summary is: Windows Team are dominant inside Microsoft Windows Team prefer unmanaged code, so anything .Net really isn't viewed in a good light The Dev Team (Scott Guthrie) are pushing WPF/Silverlight HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript can do pretty cool things and are cross platform, tech independent. Does this mean Silverlight is dead? Nope.. I don't think so. I suspect that Silverlight will continue to exist as it will be able to evolve faster than future versions of standards (HTML5 has been in the works for how long?). This also applies to flash.. Flash and Silverlight will continue to be the forefront of new things on the web, but new features will be taken from both and get added to future versions of HTML. Well, that's how I see the world :) On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Richard Jones rjones1...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to start a flame war however I have been talking to some fellow developers and they mentioned that Microsoft is preferring to support HTML5 over silverlight. I think this is speculation to say the least. Anyway, I don't get it, when Microsoft are about to release Windows phone7 which uses Silverlight. Can anyone anyone confirm this is the case? Regards, Richard -- EDDIE DE BEAR Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear -- EDDIE DE BEAR Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear
Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
Nah it's still there, go to google and type find chuck norris and hit the I'm feeling lucky button. You had me scared there for a moment. :p On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: Silverlight is like Chuck Norris, Nobody kills silverlight, silverlight kills them all! The chuck norris google hack has disapeared! Regards Arjang On 22 September 2010 15:11, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Scott is one of those people who likes to say things just to get attention. You also need to remember that he's a salesman. When he was selling Silverlight, Silverlight was the God, when he's no longer at Microsoft; Silverlight sucks. (Hmm...I think I've heard this before - http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2010/02/index.html)) Silverlight isn't going away. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Richard Jones Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:48 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Silverlight dead ? On a side note,I have read about the ethos at Microsoft that they have teams battle it out for technologies such as LinqToSQL and Entity framework etc. Just been digging around and stumbled on this forum topic on Channel9: http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/572877-Silverlight--HTML5-and-WPF Nothing more than some people stirring up the honeypot. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2010 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Silverlight dead ? Microsoft is a very big company. Some people there prefer Silverlight, some prefer HTML5. There is no evidence that Silverlight is not being invested in going forward. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Richard Jones rjones1...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to start a flame war however I have been talking to some fellow developers and they mentioned that Microsoft is preferring to support HTML5 over silverlight. I think this is speculation to say the least. Anyway, I don't get it, when Microsoft are about to release Windows phone7 which uses Silverlight. Can anyone anyone confirm this is the case? Regards, Richard
Is Silverlight dead ?
I don't want to start a flame war however I have been talking to some fellow developers and they mentioned that Microsoft is preferring to support HTML5 over silverlight. I think this is speculation to say the least. Anyway, I don't get it, when Microsoft are about to release Windows phone7 which uses Silverlight. Can anyone anyone confirm this is the case? Regards, Richard
RE: Is Silverlight dead ?
Silverlight is not dead. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Richard Jones Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:15 PM To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Is Silverlight dead ? I don't want to start a flame war however I have been talking to some fellow developers and they mentioned that Microsoft is preferring to support HTML5 over silverlight. I think this is speculation to say the least. Anyway, I don't get it, when Microsoft are about to release Windows phone7 which uses Silverlight. Can anyone anyone confirm this is the case? Regards, Richard
Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
Oh, and from the Silverlight blog.. http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/the-future-of-silverlight/ It just covers the innovate/standardize cycle.. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Eddie de Bear eddie.deb...@gmail.comwrote: I think a lot of this has come about from a blog post by Scott Barneshttp://www.riagenic.com/archives/363?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+MsMossyblog+%28MS+MossyBlog%29utm_content=FeedBurner.. It pretty much sums up what he has heard. The summary is: Windows Team are dominant inside Microsoft Windows Team prefer unmanaged code, so anything .Net really isn't viewed in a good light The Dev Team (Scott Guthrie) are pushing WPF/Silverlight HTML5 + CSS3 + JavaScript can do pretty cool things and are cross platform, tech independent. Does this mean Silverlight is dead? Nope.. I don't think so. I suspect that Silverlight will continue to exist as it will be able to evolve faster than future versions of standards (HTML5 has been in the works for how long?). This also applies to flash.. Flash and Silverlight will continue to be the forefront of new things on the web, but new features will be taken from both and get added to future versions of HTML. Well, that's how I see the world :) On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Richard Jones rjones1...@gmail.comwrote: I don't want to start a flame war however I have been talking to some fellow developers and they mentioned that Microsoft is preferring to support HTML5 over silverlight. I think this is speculation to say the least. Anyway, I don't get it, when Microsoft are about to release Windows phone7 which uses Silverlight. Can anyone anyone confirm this is the case? Regards, Richard -- *EDDIE DE BEAR* Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear -- *EDDIE DE BEAR* Mob: 0417066315 Messenger: eddie_deb...@hotmail.com Skype: eddiedebear
Re: Is Silverlight dead ?
Silverlight is like Chuck Norris, Nobody kills silverlight, silverlight kills them all! The chuck norris google hack has disapeared! Regards Arjang On 22 September 2010 15:11, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: Scott is one of those people who likes to say things just to get attention. You also need to remember that he's a salesman. When he was selling Silverlight, Silverlight was the God, when he's no longer at Microsoft; Silverlight sucks. (Hmm...I think I've heard this before - http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2010/02/index.html)) Silverlight isn't going away. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Richard Jones Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 9:48 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Silverlight dead ? On a side note,I have read about the ethos at Microsoft that they have teams battle it out for technologies such as LinqToSQL and Entity framework etc. Just been digging around and stumbled on this forum topic on Channel9: http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/572877-Silverlight--HTML5-and-WPF Nothing more than some people stirring up the honeypot. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2010 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Silverlight dead ? Microsoft is a very big company. Some people there prefer Silverlight, some prefer HTML5. There is no evidence that Silverlight is not being invested in going forward. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Richard Jones rjones1...@gmail.com wrote: I don't want to start a flame war however I have been talking to some fellow developers and they mentioned that Microsoft is preferring to support HTML5 over silverlight. I think this is speculation to say the least. Anyway, I don't get it, when Microsoft are about to release Windows phone7 which uses Silverlight. Can anyone anyone confirm this is the case? Regards, Richard
RE: Is Silverlight dead ?
RE: David Kean. David, we've never meet so i'm guessing you're assuming either the worst or prefer character attacks vs answering the hard questions ;) like is WPF is Dead? given you have @microsoft.com how about we spend more energy in clarifying the remarks instead of ad hominem attacks? - that or learn to evangelize more effectively :) - as you will note, i've consistently said i'm a fan of WPF and Silverlight and THUS why the motivation behind what i have done to draw attention to the reality of the future of both WPF/Silverlight given the current internal climate. RE: Silverlight is Dead. Silverlight isn't dead. It's just got question marks above how it will affect the market and more to the point where this bus is heading so to speak. You can hear my thoughts on this in a number of podcasts floating around the place (Sparkling Client will have one up soon and one via Talkingshop Downunder) to quote myself: ..way Microsoft to date knows how is to either spend majority of its focus on convincing developers that Silverlight is the better option.. I’m simply about highlighting the disconnect here and if the Windows 8 / IE teams of today think that Silverlight / WPF is something they can deprecate because they dislike people in DevDiv or its current model then think again, as this is one of those rare moments in time where you have a hung jury in terms of which of the two is really the best bet... So not sure where David etc are drawing thine inspiration from in declaring i am flip flopping over my preferences for Silverlight? given its the whole heart soul of this whole debate - that and putting focus back on WPF and asking a big question Where's this going. RE: Motivation. Again, you can read why i was motivated to post the thoughts i have etc via my blog. The main reason was to circumvent the David Keans of the Microsoft internal as typically these types of personalities often will squash left field opinions for fear of throwing the brand itself into question or constructive criticism. At times these folks really need to get out of the Redmond bubble, jump on some planes, visit folks at the cubicle level and not at the TechEd like cheerleader-thons and one can soon realize fast that what the Redmond postcode thinks vs whats reality are vastly different. Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com
