[ozmidwifery] Fw: bun's STILL cooking.....
hi, all, my active birthing student Alice sent me this. Go, Alice! aviva - Original Message - From: a To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:06 PM Subject: bun's STILL cooking. Hello, Little bubs is still hanging out in the comfort of mum's belly. We are now 1 week past the 'due' date, although the concept of a baby being 'late' is a little ridiculous don't you think? Like it's meant to wear a watch and then think "Oh, it's time, if i don't get out now I'll be late!" Mother nature does things in perfect time, so whenever the baby decides to arrive will be the perfect time. I went to the doctor today. He suggested that it's about time to discuss our 'options'. Like induction, to which i said 'Definitely not!' and then he suggested to have an ultrasound to check on things, attach a fetal heart monitor to my belly for 20 minutes to check the heartbeat, then do an internal examination to check that the cervix is ripening and if not he can help it along. Excuse me No thanks to everything. We can listen to the heartbeat with a stethascope which we did and it's very strong and even, and he felt the baby which is now totally engaged, right at the bottom of my pelvis ready to come out, the baby is still moving alot and my blood pressure is totally healthy, so why don't we just let mother nature take care of things? So he replied "We recommend these things because if the baby is in there too long it can die" said with much seriousness to my amusement. Sorry, can't scare me into anything buddy. So I got out of the hospital routine induction and all that crap because i stood my ground very firmly and he knew he couldn't sway me. Everything is fine, it is totally normal to go this far and even a week longer is still considered perfectly normal. Anyway, last night i felt what I swear must be labour pains, sort of like period pain and lower back pain and very achey which went away, then came back and then a few hours later came back. I got very excited but it was sort of just a practise run, although Aviva my active birth trainer, said it is possible to start labour a few days in advance so that there is a bit of progress already by the time you're in full labour. Today i've been getting shooting sharp pains in my inner thighs which is also a good sign that things are on the move, the baby is right down on my nerves. I never thought i'd be so excited to feel pain. Bring on the pain!!! I'm sick of this contented, comfortable feeling. I need the pain and then we can have our darling little baby in our arms at last! Elvis - the bird - has been acting very strangely today and yesterday. He squats down low, puts his head down and turns from side to side making little squeaking noises. He has never done this before, it's sort of like some sort of mating thing or i don't know what, but i am certain it is linked in some way to the imminent arrival of our baby to the family, like he senses it or something. Anyway, maybe tonight's the night.. Alice xxx
Re: [ozmidwifery] CPD WAS big baby fear?
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] CPD WAS big baby fear? 14 pounder? some people will do anything for attention!!! aviva - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CPD WAS big baby fear? This just made me remember a story my ex-mother in law used to tell about her mother's 14lb baby.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Get up and give birth t-shirt.
Are they still available and where can we get it? Hettie Grove RN.RM.RCN.RNA.RNT.ICCE. South Africa 027-83-2260709 Fax 27-11-7403507 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Get up and give birth t-shirt. Enjoyed reading the latest ACMI Australian Midwifery News which arrived yesterday. Seeing some familiar names and matching them up with faces. And I loved the 'midwifes tale' on page 12 with the dog-bite conclusion. I've been bitten by a women in labour (Ouch) but not a dog! But I was very happy to see Jackie advertising the Get up and Give Birth t-shirts in there. Having got one about 12 months ago, I have found it to be the most interesting conversation piece, and have had many positive comments on it. I think the best was the old bloke in the doctor's surgery who had been squinting across the room at my shirt, finally asked me to come across so he could see me and asked me to read it too him. There's no way I'm wearing it whilst labouring though - might wreck it!! And fitting over my huge stomach might be a prob... Well worth the cost, and one happy customer. Cheryl _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: bun's STILL cooking.....
Hi all Was browsing through a parenting mag the other day while awaiting return of woman from day procedure. Had a 5 minutes in the life of a new mum. It went something like this: They wanted to induce me, so I had 3 lots of gel but didn't do anything. I was 2 cm dilated so they broke my waters and put up a drip, then my baby's heartbeat started having problems so they rushed me down to theatre before I left the midwife said something that made me feel better.. can you guess. oh yes of course... it doesn't matter how you have your baby as long as it is healthy..AAARRRG My colleagues though I was having a fit!!! Sally - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:52 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: bun's STILL cooking. hi, all, my active birthing student Alice sent me this. Go, Alice! aviva - Original Message - From: a To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:06 PM Subject: bun's STILL cooking. Hello, Little bubs is still hanging out in the comfort of mum's belly. We are now 1 week past the 'due' date, although the concept of a baby being 'late' is a little ridiculous don't you think? Like it's meant to wear a watch and then think "Oh, it's time, if i don't get out now I'll be late!" Mother nature does things in perfect time, so whenever the baby decides to arrive will be the perfect time. I went to the doctor today. He suggested that it's about time to discuss our 'options'. Like induction, to which i said 'Definitely not!' and then he suggested to have an ultrasound to check on things, attach a fetal heart monitor to my belly for 20 minutes to check the heartbeat, then do an internal examination to check that the cervix is ripening and if not he can help it along. Excuse me No thanks to everything. We can listen to the heartbeat with a stethascope which we did and it's very strong and even, and he felt the baby which is now totally engaged, right at the bottom of my pelvis ready to come out, the baby is still moving alot and my blood pressure is totally healthy, so why don't we just let mother nature take care of things? So he replied "We recommend these things because if the baby is in there too long it can die" said with much seriousness to my amusement. Sorry, can't scare me into anything buddy. So I got out of the hospital routine induction and all that crap because i stood my ground very firmly and he knew he couldn't sway me. Everything is fine, it is totally normal to go this far and even a week longer is still considered perfectly normal. Anyway, last night i felt what I swear must be labour pains, sort of like period pain and lower back pain and very achey which went away, then came back and then a few hours later came back. I got very excited but it was sort of just a practise run, although Aviva my active birth trainer, said it is possible to start labour a few days in advance so that there is a bit of progress already by the time you're in full labour. Today i've been getting shooting sharp pains in my inner thighs which is also a good sign that things are on the move, the baby is right down on my nerves. I never thought i'd be so excited to feel pain. Bring on the pain!!! I'm sick of this contented, comfortable feeling. I need the pain and then we can have our darling little baby in our arms at last! Elvis - the bird - has been acting very strangely today and yesterday. He squats down low, puts his head down and turns from side to side making little squeaking noises. He has never done this before, it's sort of like some sort of mating thing or i don't know what, but i am certain it is linked in some way to the imminent arrival of our baby to the family, like he senses it or something. Anyway, maybe tonight's the night.. Alice xxx
Fw: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Plans around birth incl children need to remain open to change ie leaving kids asleep following the childs needs at that moment but the magic of, christmas is often captured when chilren are present . This year a 10 year girl defused a tense situation with grumpy obs in a pulic hosp ,as her mum pushed, an undigested pumpkin seed appeared from her bottom which the child annouced with great gusto to one and all . Two boys at their sisters birth at home asked their mum as the head crowned aout 7am would she be finished by breakfast . AN EXCITED 2 YR OLD WOKE AT USUAL TIME O6OO TO GREET HIS SISTER SWIMMING PAST HIS MUM TO SEE HIM . Billie changed her clothes 3 times then decided at 3yrs of age to go play next door as, it was taking too long.another 3 yr old had her clothes off and was at last allowed in the pool with her parents and new sister . Another 10 year old girl hopped into her bed with the door shut upset by thenoised of a precipitate labour her support person jioned her and they emerged whenit was over and made a cake. Flurescent ear plugs, little hands helping the midwife, thomas the tank torches searching for a sign of baby ,batman, knights with swords and fairies all dressed to greet the new babe I could go on and on wide eyed interested kids doing what they liked with their own person there for them. Chidren at birth go with the moment and have good child centred back up plans jan - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either Oh Megan! Does that mean you are one of 'those' car park seekers who take the challenge to find the perfect park very seriously!!! Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of number three, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video of number two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also some other videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might make and about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out. Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for a carpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but it was a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it had to come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boys don't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby. Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone they trust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don't want their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was, but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want to be on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. I acknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, but figured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be worked through(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children will probably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even like to be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete. It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments if in hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of a midwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help. Some good books are Having a Baby by Jenni Overend and also the writer of Maisie Mouse series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorry don't know the name). Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy new all about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess. After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of the night and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up a couple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usual time. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boys weren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for a reason. My oldest, now 4 1/4 years thinks I should have another baby
Re: [ozmidwifery] Magazine horror story
Hi Andrea and all Shame they forgot about that article on maternal deaths and the NHMRC Report they ran and the subsequent letter I wrote and they published on the amazing benefits of midwifery care and the buzz of natural birth. Too push to push, but not too posh for a pulmonary embolism? Sad eh! Justine Hi kisters, It has just come to my attention that *She* magazine has published a special edition that is being distributed in hospitals in huge piles for a free giveaway. The cover story is *She gives birth* and, you guessed it, the lead story is *Too posh to push*. The whole magazine is obviously designed to push caesarean births and obstetric care. If all of you who work in hsopitals could check every place that these magazines could be lurking and remove them it would be a service to women. In the hospital I heard about, they were found in the antenatal clinic, physio department, labour ward and general waiting area in maternity. They are all now safely residing in the re-cycle bin - about 700 in all. What a waste of paper and what an insult to women (but what a clever marketing idea by the medical fraternity!!) Please get cracking everyone Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: bun's STILL cooking.....
Please don't forget to let us know the rest of the story -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Aviva Sheb'aSent: Tuesday, 26 November 2002 6:53 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: bun's STILL cooking. hi, all, my active birthing student Alice sent me this. Go, Alice! aviva - Original Message - From: a To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:06 PM Subject: bun's STILL cooking. Hello, Little bubs is still hanging out in the comfort of mum's belly. We are now 1 week past the 'due' date, although the concept of a baby being 'late' is a little ridiculous don't you think? Like it's meant to wear a watch and then think "Oh, it's time, if i don't get out now I'll be late!" Mother nature does things in perfect time, so whenever the baby decides to arrive will be the perfect time. I went to the doctor today. He suggested that it's about time to discuss our 'options'. Like induction, to which i said 'Definitely not!' and then he suggested to have an ultrasound to check on things, attach a fetal heart monitor to my belly for 20 minutes to check the heartbeat, then do an internal examination to check that the cervix is ripening and if not he can help it along. Excuse me No thanks to everything. We can listen to the heartbeat with a stethascope which we did and it's very strong and even, and he felt the baby which is now totally engaged, right at the bottom of my pelvis ready to come out, the baby is still moving alot and my blood pressure is totally healthy, so why don't we just let mother nature take care of things? So he replied "We recommend these things because if the baby is in there too long it can die" said with much seriousness to my amusement. Sorry, can't scare me into anything buddy. So I got out of the hospital routine induction and all that crap because i stood my ground very firmly and he knew he couldn't sway me. Everything is fine, it is totally normal to go this far and even a week longer is still considered perfectly normal. Anyway, last night i felt what I swear must be labour pains, sort of like period pain and lower back pain and very achey which went away, then came back and then a few hours later came back. I got very excited but it was sort of just a practise run, although Aviva my active birth trainer, said it is possible to start labour a few days in advance so that there is a bit of progress already by the time you're in full labour. Today i've been getting shooting sharp pains in my inner thighs which is also a good sign that things are on the move, the baby is right down on my nerves. I never thought i'd be so excited to feel pain. Bring on the pain!!! I'm sick of this contented, comfortable feeling. I need the pain and then we can have our darling little baby in our arms at last! Elvis - the bird - has been acting very strangely today and yesterday. He squats down low, puts his head down and turns from side to side making little squeaking noises. He has never done this before, it's sort of like some sort of mating thing or i don't know what, but i am certain it is linked in some way to the imminent arrival of our baby to the family, like he senses it or something. Anyway, maybe tonight's the night.. Alice xxx
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her uncomfortable. Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went to the hospital - personally. 4 hours being her longest labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who found the light switch. I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL Rhonda. If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be laughing! ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 19:35:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Rhonda, with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take the attitude that they're not required to look after the child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first. Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove having older children with whom you can talk and discuss things with. The look on their faces is simply fabulous as they take in an adult version of real life. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child. When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up child care. So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to call for someone to help. To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was born. She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking after him. This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing. He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be unattended while Dad helped her. Rhonda
[ozmidwifery] Children's perspectives..
All of this reminded me of my 5yr old daughter when I had a false labour at 31 weeks and the dr came in and did an internal "to see what was happening" My daughter was trying very hard to look up betwen my legs while the Dr did this and then complained to me, "That wasn't fair Mummy, how come she got to see the baby and I couldn't."I had to try to explain that she couldn't see it yet either - but it did amuse me. I was sure she would have been wonderful at the birth but I was worried about what the dr's might (and did) do so i was glad she was home. She said to me after george was born - "well, you can't have another baby now Mum,(quite sadly)- you will get three scars on your tummy and that is too much." ( She came up with this herself ). I had to try to explain that if I did have another baby that things would be VERY different next time and that babies are not meant to come out that way. It was easy to explain her birth and I used to say that my scar from her was my 'smiley' and that it was what saved our lives. Georges scar is and always has been - just a scar and sadly it ruined my 'smiley'. I never felt that it saved him or me - I never once felt that I would die having him - I was probably in more pain ( a good pain) but I did not feel like I would die from it. With katelyn by the time they did the c/s I had to concentrate on continueing to breath because it seemed that I could just stop at any moment so easily, that hypothetical corner was so tempting to curl up in(I had one contraction a few days before her birth and that was all). I was sick with PE and they had to do it to savemy life.Easily explained to a child. I was in labour with George and it just seemed so wrong because they could only quote risks and if this happens etc and not any real reason. I think that is what is so hard to expain - I don't understand it myself so how do I explain it to a child? Regards Rhonda Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 22:50:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) - Original Message -From: lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 5:43 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Plans around birth incl children need to remain open to change ie leaving kids asleep following the childs needs at that moment but the magic of, "christmas" is often captured when chilren are present . This year a 10 year girl defused a tense situation with grumpy obs in a pulic hosp ,as her mum pushed, an undigested pumpkin seed appeared fromher bottom which the child annouced with great gusto to one and all . Two boys at their sisters birth at home asked their mum as the headcrowned aout 7am would she be finished by breakfast . AN EXCITED 2 YR OLD WOKE AT USUAL TIME O6OO TO GREET HIS SISTER SWIMMING PAST HIS MUM TO SEE HIM . Billie changed her clothes 3 times then decided at 3yrs of age to go play next door as," it "was taking too long.another 3 yr old had her clothesoff and was at last allowed in the pool with her parents and new sister . Another 10 year old girl hopped into her bed with the door shut upset by thenoised of a precipitate labour her support person jioned her and they emerged when"it" was over and made a cake. Flurescent ear plugs, little hands helping the midwife, thomas the tank torches searching for a sign of baby ,batman, knights with swords and fairies all dressed to greet the new babe I could go on and on wide eyed interested kids doing what they liked with their own person there for them. Chidren at birth go with the moment and have good child centred back up plans jan - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking fora carpark, can't talk much then either Oh Megan! Does that mean you are one of 'those' car park seekers whotake the challenge to find the perfect park very seriously!!! Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: "Larry Megan" lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lt;[EMAIL
FW: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
Title: FW: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long) Tina - tonite I read your story as you wrote it, to our Birthtalk- Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth group. It was heard by a group of 8 women. (6 have suffered traumatic c/sec births and 4 are pg) It was such an amazing story, and I was a bit weepy myself as it neared the end and struggled to keep my voice steady...and your story had such an effect on us as a group. We were all wiping our eyes, and it gave us such strength, to hear what can happen when women support women. It lead into a very passionate recounting by one mum of her own vbac homebirth and how she received support such as you offered. And this then started a discussion on how it feels to give birth (most of these women have never experienced that), and how she coped with having her 3yo and her mum around, and how we have all coped with our mothers when in labour, and then we went into what we can learn from our mother's birth experiences, and how our relationship with our mother can develop as we share our stories of birth. So we heard two very positive stories that renewed our belief in ourselves and our ability to birth, and has sprouted a whole new series of Qs and issues that confront women facing birth again after a traumatic experience. So thank you. All the women thanked me at the end for sharing the story, so I must thank you...and the women whose story it is (Sally). These stories will change how we birth. Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda wrote: This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child. When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up child care. So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to call for someone to help. To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was born. She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking after him. This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing. He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be unattended while Dad helped her. With my second son I went into labour prematurely (30 weeks). We had made no plans, and it was all very quick, so our elder son - Daniel - came with us. Daniel was just one week beyond his 1st birthday, and I clearly remember my poor husband trying to help me while holding Daniel in his arms. Sadly, our son died, and I do remember very clearly all the wonderful midwives and other staff who cared for our son while we held our new baby and said goodbye. I think he subsisted on orange juice and cookies :-) Daniel is always quick to mention that he was at his brother's birth - although I'm pretty sure he has no memory of it. Debbie Slater Perth, WA
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia
Well now you know where the centre of the universe is! Call me smug if you like. aviva - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia Nor NSWHow interesting only 2 states!Denise
Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
Title: FW: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long)
hearty congratulations to you and the women there.
this is how the world improves.
aviva
- Original Message -
From: rem melissa
bruijn
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:27 AM
Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met
Harry(Long)
Tina - tonite I read your story as you wrote it, to our
"Birthtalk- Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth" group. It was
heard by a group of 8 women. (6 have suffered traumatic c/sec births and
4 are pg) It was such an amazing story, and I was a bit weepy myself
as it neared the end and struggled to keep my voice steady...and your story
had such an effect on us as a group. We were all wiping our eyes, and
it gave us such strength, to hear what can happen when women support women.
It lead into a very passionate recounting by one mum of her own vbac
homebirth and how she received support such as you offered. And this
then started a discussion on how it feels to give birth (most of these women
have never experienced that), and how she coped with having her 3yo and her
mum around, and how we have all coped with our mothers when in labour, and
then we went into what we can learn from our mother's birth experiences, and
how our relationship with our mother can develop as we share our stories of
birth. So we heard two very positive stories that renewed our belief
in ourselves and our ability to birth, and has sprouted a whole new series
of Qs and issues that confront women facing birth again after a traumatic
experience. So thank you. All the women thanked me at
the end for sharing the story, so I must thank you...and the women whose
story it is ("Sally").These stories will change how we
birth.Melissa
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her uncomfortable. Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went to the hospital - personally. 4 hours being her longest labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who found the light switch. I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL Rhonda. If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be laughing! ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 19:35:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Rhonda, with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take the attitude that they're not required to look after the child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first. Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Perhaps this is another reason why Home Birth is so much better as the children can go and play with their toys and not dismantle hospital equipment. Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her uncomfortable. Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went to the hospital - personally. 4 hours being her longest labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who found the light switch. I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL Rhonda. If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be laughing! ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 19:35:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Rhonda, with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take the attitude that they're not required to look after the child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first. Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove having older children with whom you can talk and discuss things with. The look on their faces is simply fabulous as they take in an adult version of real life. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
where I have worked in the past the rule of thumb has been: have someone to care for the child, even if they are coming to the birth. That means, if your child is attending you need to have a support person dedicated to caring for the child. If your partner is your only support person, and your child needs care, then your partner has to care for the child, regardless of whether that means they need to leave the birthing room. In these days of staff shortages in many hospitals I think that's pretty fair. As a midwife I cannot be 'with' the woman completely if I'm also dealing with her preschooler. Kirsten - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her uncomfortable. Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went to the hospital - personally. 4 hours being her longest labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who found the light switch. I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL Rhonda. If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be laughing! ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 19:35:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
" Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not." You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagatedby misguided managers who think it's good for business. I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth. I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do everything that I can to make thelittleone feel part of the party,but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much. Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is on the line. Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more manageable and satisfying. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
He! He! -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 12:42 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Perhaps this is another reason why Home Birth is so much better as the children can go and play with their toys and not dismantle hospital equipment. Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not planned it she was also feeling that he was not meant to be there which made her uncomfortable. Also it does not take much effort to help especially with this woman who basically popped out all of her four boys without any assistance or complications. I don't know why she went to the hospital - personally. 4 hours being her longest labour. No tears, no other complications at all except an unattended 2yr old who found the light switch. I did say to her if that was her only complaint out of 4 hospital births then she had "nothing" to complain about! LOL Rhonda. If that was the worst thing to happen to all women we would all be laughing! ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 19:35:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Rhonda, with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take the attitude that they're not required to look after the child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first. Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove having older children with whom you can talk and discuss things with. The look on their faces is simply fabulous as they take in an
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Hear Hear! I'm more than picky, and will blatantly state that in a hospital setting my first priority is the mother and baby, NOT THE TODDLER!! You want your kids in there, bring a support person, if it's unexpected then Dad has got to put their needs first and leave the midwife with the woman. It has happened to me where the woman came in labouring hard and fast at 0200, had arranged care with a neighbour, but the toddler woke up and all hell broke loose, and he wasn't going to stay with the neighbour - so in he came. The parents were more worried about him and what he was going to be like. Mum didn't want him in the room, but wanted her hubby. Took best part of 30 mins to reassure her (and Dad) that 'that's life!' and it had happened and we would work around it, but I made it clear to Dad that he was responsible for the toddler, and if he got distressed or was running about, then he had to step in. We stocked up on biscuits though!!! Precipitate labour, really quick 2nd stage (Mum was particularly worried about making noise though) and I'm not sure if dr dropped in or not - might have been too early?? She was home within 24 hours and happy. Mind you, this may even happen to me yet in a few weeks, no family even close to us, and my hubby desperately wants to be there for this baby - but I have told him the same as above, if we have to bring the kids in the middle of the night, than they are his first priority, and if he ends up sitting next door and then sticking his head through the door to see head on view and birth, then so be it. I would prefer to have just a midwife, then the whole kids and lot in there - it would distract me to no end. But that's a personal thing. Cheryl From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:34:52 +1100 Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagated by misguided managers who think it's good for business . I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth. I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do everything that I can to make the little one feel part of the party, but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much. Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is on the line. Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more manageable and satisfying. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive away from her parents who were driving down to help she had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
[Judy Giesaitis]Well saidRobin JudyOriginal Message-From: Robin Moon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 6:35 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
FW: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
The only difficulty I have with all this is that for most of a woman's birthing, if she has a husband who wants to hold, massage, support her then I am happy to sit on the floor and play with children and allow the couple to be together. After all at the end of the journey the couple is going home together and how much better is it for a woman to remember being surrounded by her husbands love rather than mine? I am after all her midwife not her lover and see my place as holding the space for the woman first, surrounded by her family and support people, surrounded by me. I do see my role encompassing the care of the whole family. Then when the baby is emerging.. and in hospitals.. the midwife need to fuss around opening packs and things.. then Dad's will, of course, happily sort out the children. Of course this is so much easier to manage at home. I know the children and the parents and have some understanding of the family dynamics. The children have their own safe space to move into when they wish it. Of course it is preferable to have a support person for the children. In peace and joy Sally Westbury -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cheryl LHK Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 5:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Hear Hear! I'm more than picky, and will blatantly state that in a hospital setting my first priority is the mother and baby, NOT THE TODDLER!! You want your kids in there, bring a support person, if it's unexpected then Dad has got to put their needs first and leave the midwife with the woman. It has happened to me where the woman came in labouring hard and fast at 0200, had arranged care with a neighbour, but the toddler woke up and all hell broke loose, and he wasn't going to stay with the neighbour - so in he came. The parents were more worried about him and what he was going to be like. Mum didn't want him in the room, but wanted her hubby. Took best part of 30 mins to reassure her (and Dad) that 'that's life!' and it had happened and we would work around it, but I made it clear to Dad that he was responsible for the toddler, and if he got distressed or was running about, then he had to step in. We stocked up on biscuits though!!! Precipitate labour, really quick 2nd stage (Mum was particularly worried about making noise though) and I'm not sure if dr dropped in or not - might have been too early?? She was home within 24 hours and happy. Mind you, this may even happen to me yet in a few weeks, no family even close to us, and my hubby desperately wants to be there for this baby - but I have told him the same as above, if we have to bring the kids in the middle of the night, than they are his first priority, and if he ends up sitting next door and then sticking his head through the door to see head on view and birth, then so be it. I would prefer to have just a midwife, then the whole kids and lot in there - it would distract me to no end. But that's a personal thing. Cheryl From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:34:52 +1100 Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagated by misguided managers who think it's good for business . I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth. I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do everything that I can to make the little one feel part of the party, but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much. Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and her
Re: FW: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
In a message dated 27/11/02 12:33:22 AM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tina - tonite I read your story as you wrote it, to our "Birthtalk- Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth" group. It was heard by a group of 8 women. (6 have suffered traumatic c/sec births and 4 are pg) It was such an amazing story, and I was a bit weepy myself as it neared the end and struggled to keep my voice steady...and your story had such an effect on us as a group. We were all wiping our eyes, and it gave us such strength, to hear what can happen when women support women. Hello Melissa... thank you so much for this...what an honour to have the opportunity to share with these women...thank you. As a midwifery student, I am indebted to the many women who are open to sharing their pregnancy and birthing experiences with me as part of our uni partnership program. Without these women such opportunities for learning and enhancing our 'with woman' relationships would be lost. I will pass on your news to "Sally". She will be delighted to think that her birthing has given strength to other women and that it has encouraged these women to look deep within themselves to harness their own birth resources and power. 'Power to the woman' Also Melissa...where are you all?? I would like to take this opportunity to invite these women to contact their local universities and enquire about their midwifery courses, particularly if they run a "follow through" program. These women could all have their own midwife student should it be of interest to themIf any of the women would like further info on the follow thru programs for the Bachelor of Midwifery let me know and I can put them in contact with the appropriate people... yours in birth Tina Pettigrew. Bachelor of Midwifery Student Victoria University
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia
Thank you Denise - Original Message - From: barbara glare chris bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia Dear Denise, Sheila will be speaking for the National Association of childbirth Educators in Sydney for their Annual Conference. For information about that, see the NACE website at www.nace.org.au You won't miss out! Love, Barb -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Dear Robin Please can we talk?Denise Hynd 041 7932570 - Original Message - From: Robin Moon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) " Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not." You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagatedby misguided managers who think it's good for business. I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth. I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do everything that I can to make thelittleone feel part of the party,but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much. Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is on the line. Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more manageable and satisfying. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can
Re: [ozmidwifery] Northern Suburbs Midwifery Programme (S.A).
Is there anyone from the program lurking who would share with us what is happenig with it in regard to salary??Denise - Original Message - From: Mrs joanne m fisher To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 1:32 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Northern Suburbs Midwifery Programme (S.A). I would like to contact someone involved with the Northern Suburbs Midwifery Programme (S.A). Any takers? Cheers, Joanne.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Yes Sally that is one of the things I have appreciate with home birthers it is a continuation of the love act that created to baby The loving touch of partners , family is mostly what many women need to labour and birth their babies gently, I have found it so wondrous and such a positive affirmation of my midwifery to be at labours and births where I sit quietly and they look after themselves in this way!! Denise - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) The only difficulty I have with all this is that for most of a woman's birthing, if she has a husband who wants to hold, massage, support her then I am happy to sit on the floor and play with children and allow the couple to be together. After all at the end of the journey the couple is going home together and how much better is it for a woman to remember being surrounded by her husbands love rather than mine? I am after all her midwife not her lover and see my place as holding the space for the woman first, surrounded by her family and support people, surrounded by me. I do see my role encompassing the care of the whole family. Then when the baby is emerging.. and in hospitals.. the midwife need to fuss around opening packs and things.. then Dad's will, of course, happily sort out the children. Of course this is so much easier to manage at home. I know the children and the parents and have some understanding of the family dynamics. The children have their own safe space to move into when they wish it. Of course it is preferable to have a support person for the children. In peace and joy Sally Westbury -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cheryl LHK Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2002 5:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Hear Hear! I'm more than picky, and will blatantly state that in a hospital setting my first priority is the mother and baby, NOT THE TODDLER!! You want your kids in there, bring a support person, if it's unexpected then Dad has got to put their needs first and leave the midwife with the woman. It has happened to me where the woman came in labouring hard and fast at 0200, had arranged care with a neighbour, but the toddler woke up and all hell broke loose, and he wasn't going to stay with the neighbour - so in he came. The parents were more worried about him and what he was going to be like. Mum didn't want him in the room, but wanted her hubby. Took best part of 30 mins to reassure her (and Dad) that 'that's life!' and it had happened and we would work around it, but I made it clear to Dad that he was responsible for the toddler, and if he got distressed or was running about, then he had to step in. We stocked up on biscuits though!!! Precipitate labour, really quick 2nd stage (Mum was particularly worried about making noise though) and I'm not sure if dr dropped in or not - might have been too early?? She was home within 24 hours and happy. Mind you, this may even happen to me yet in a few weeks, no family even close to us, and my hubby desperately wants to be there for this baby - but I have told him the same as above, if we have to bring the kids in the middle of the night, than they are his first priority, and if he ends up sitting next door and then sticking his head through the door to see head on view and birth, then so be it. I would prefer to have just a midwife, then the whole kids and lot in there - it would distract me to no end. But that's a personal thing. Cheryl From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:34:52 +1100 Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagated by misguided managers who think it's good for business . I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer
[ozmidwifery] follow through programme
I'd like to second Tina's comments re follow through. It was the best part of my midi (1988) following through "my" 4 ladies, and at the moment I am a "follow through lady" myself (or longitudinal case study!) for a lovelymidi student. It is great to have someone there with me at all my visits. I just hope I don't birth while she's away at residential school. LOUISE [EMAIL PROTECTED] IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
In a message dated 27/11/02 12:29:44 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyway what I am getting at is there has been no political will to look at midwives differently, in terms of equity, midwifery as a profession deserving support and new solutions for recurrent problems (the cost of escalating intervention etc). At least not in Australia and I think part of the reason is the hand maiden status and mind set of midwives and women! What do others think?? Especially the Bmids?? Denise Hi Denise...thanks for the invitation to respond here...as a BMidderthe vision I have for my practice is the ability to offer my service to women, wherever the woman chooses to birth her babe...the issues with PII have certainly squashed the independent aspiration for now...though this is my long term aim...but inorder to provide continuity of carerI'll take salaried/contract work as a midwife to give women choices in their birthingI think if midwives are smart/politically savvy and don't take the medico approach of making decisions on behalf of women...then you can easily work/negate your way around many a hospital or agency policy/protocolthe final decisions in care and planning for birth rest with the woman...so she can decide what is best for her if she is given information in which to make her decisions...and be supported in whatever decisions she makes...I think where midwives get into strife is where they start living/acting out their own pol! ! itical agendas thru women who end up being the pawns in the whole political process. Not an ideal situation...and the midwife who sees that she has 'gone out on a limb' for a woman who is less than embracing of what the midwife 'whats' for her...in the end comes out the loser...discontent, disillusioned, frustrated and bitter with the birth world. Recently in working with a follow thru woman, I attended her pregnancy care visits to the hospitalher model of care was midwife-led care in a birthing unit.but I was amazed at how subordinate and not so midwife-led it was. Some of the midwives were in their care of the woman far happier to defer or abdicate decisions to the doctors inorder to 'keep the peace' and were very accepting of medical dominant policy/protocolWhile some of the midwives seem to embrace the whole responsibility/accountability thingmany do not...and would rather be seen in the handmaiden role in preference to accepting full responsibility for their midwife role. I suppose what I'm getting at here is if midwives don't see themselves differently to nurses...if midwives don't take themselves seriously as autonomous practitioners...if midwives don't have the trust and faith in their midwifery knowledge and skills to embrace responsibility and accountability...then how can we ask that anyo! ! ne else doesbe it the government...the medical profession...the public..??? yours in reforming midwifery Tina Pettigrew Bachelor of Midwifery Student Victoria University
Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
In a message dated 11/27/02 9:29:44 AM W. Australia Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I thought you/CMWA were in negotiation for a special "award" because MIPPS homebirth midwives whatever you class yourselves as - definitely have more responsibility skills to Birth Centre midwives (the salary level) who follow more protocols, directions ,limits on their practice and autonomy, being in close proximity to a hospital etc. A special award is one of the things that would help - but as far as being in negotiations about that one issue - it is more complex than that, as I'm sure you will appreciate. However, I must stress that CMWA are committed to working through the various issues surrounding the program (not just pay, but other working/ practice conditions). However, it is not going to be something that we can arrive at overnight (more's the pity). Assent has just been given to the new community insurance package here in WA. We understand the the Program/ Program midwives would be ideally suited to receive PI cover under this - but it is still early days. As such, that may solve some of the problems, and allow us to go back to how it was 18 months ago. But that still doesn't resolve other issues such as general lack of funding etc. by the DOH. Debbie Slater Perth, WA writing in her capacity as Chair of CMWA
[ozmidwifery] Re Tina's response to Denise
Recently in working with a follow thru woman, I attended her pregnancy care visits to the hospitalher model of care was midwife-led care in a birthing unit.but I was amazed at how subordinate and not so midwife-led it was. Some of the midwives were in their care of the woman far happier to defer or abdicate decisions to the doctors inorder to 'keep the peace' and were very accepting of medical dominant policy/protocolWhile some of the midwives seem to embrace the whole responsibility/accountability thingmany do not...and would rather be seen in the handmaiden role in preference to accepting full responsibility for their midwife role. I suppose what I'm getting at here is if midwives don't see themselves differently to nurses...if midwives don't take themselves seriously as autonomous practitioners...if midwives don't have the trust and faith in their midwifery knowledge and skills to embrace responsibility and accountability...then how can we ask that anyone else doesbe it the government...the medical profession...the public..??? yours in reforming midwifery Tina Pettigrew Bachelor of Midwifery Student Victoria University I have to agree with you Tina. Our birth centre midwives are autonymous but I find the attitude you describe in the Birth Suite of the Women's Health Unit. There are some that try to step out but not enough. When I hear stories of other units I believe that ours is further down the track but still has a long way to go. I will have to leave them to it though as I go to Mareeba soon. I wrote recently about a woman booked for CS who birthed under her own steam. During the morning when I was getting to know her and finding out what she WANTED to do, she said she wanted a normal birth. I did the empowering thing of saying, among other things, they can't do a CS if she doesn't sign the consent, she said "Already done yesterday in preadmission". I got the form and gave it to her and she tore it up. Great. NOW not able to do a CS without further explanation. As it was she progressed and pushed well and is a happy woman after a normal birth. JudyThe new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Children Present at Births
I have to agree with Robin. We run on such tight staffing that mostly wejust don't have the staff to be responsible for toddlers. If they cannot do anything else with them we try our best but I believe that the midwife caring for the woman has responsibility enough for the wellbeingof the woman and the baby without taking on more. If there is time we try to get the social worker to help. Judy<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:34:52 +1100 " Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the family in this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not." You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagated by misguided managers who think it's good for business . I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth. I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do everything that I can to make the little one feel part of the party, but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much. Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is on the line. Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more manageable and satisfying. Robin Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] follow through programme
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] follow through programme I did not know this was even an option - thanks for sharing this info. Melissa -- From: Grant and Louise [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] follow through programme Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 9:44 AM I'd like to second Tina's comments re follow through. It was the best part of my midi (1988) following through my 4 ladies, and at the moment I am a follow through lady myself (or longitudinal case study!) for a lovely midi student. It is great to have someone there with me at all my visits. I just hope I don't birth while she's away at residential school. LOUISE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
What about the possibility of child care within the hospital? I can hear the screams of budget budget, etc. Yet it's not such a far-fetched idea. How many people need to use hospitals and have to have their children looked after? Would it be a nightmare? Aviva --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also Melissa...where are you all?? I would like to take this opportunity to invite these women to contact their local universities and enquire about their midwifery courses, particularly if they run a follow through program. These women could all have their own midwife student should it be of interest to themIf any of the women would like further info on the follow thru programs for the Bachelor of Midwifery let me know and I can put them in contact with the appropriate people... TIna - we are all in Brisbane/Gold Coast area (meetings in BRisbane). I would really be interested if any local uni's have this programme - sounds great. Specially if the students are anything like you and your friends who supported Sally! Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
In a message dated 27/11/02 4:27:07 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: TIna - we are all in Brisbane/Gold Coast area (meetings in BRisbane). I would really be interested if any local uni's have this programme - sounds great. Specially if the students are anything like you and your friends who supported Sally! Melissa Hi Melissa...there are no Bachelor of Midwifery programs in Qld...not yet anyway :))...but there are unis who do post graduate midwife programs...you would need to contact them and ask if they run "follow thru" programs as part of their curriculum ...and if not...then why not??sorry coudn't help myself here Can any one who works in any of the Brisbane programs assist Melissa with this?? Good luck Melissa...and thanks in anticipation to anyone up Brisbane way who can assit here.. yours in reforming midwifery Tina Pettigrew. Bachelor of Midiwfery Student Victoria University " As we trust the flowers to open to new life - So we can trust birth" Harriette Hartigan. ---
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re Tina's response to Denise
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re Tina's response to Denise While some of the midwives seem to embrace the whole responsibility/accountability thingmany do not...and would rather be seen in the handmaiden role in preference to accepting full responsibility for their midwife role. TIna - this is exactly the attitude that led to my being sectioned at 9.5 cm. I was in a Birth Centre where I trusted the midwives and believed they worked within a midwifery model of care. But it became all talk : I was abandoned while my mw watched the tennis and I thought I was dying. Plus I can tell anyone that Team Midwifery in a Birth Centre DOES NOT WORK. You cannot build a relationship with several women from a few 15 min appointments over the 9 mths. And even that is redundant when the woman who attends you is someone you have never met. And who obviously does not want to be there, at least not as a responsibile midwife, it seemed to me. I felt that by recommending an epidural, that she was free of me. Not a nice feeling - like I'd failed Birth Centre 101. I did the empowering thing of saying, among other things, they can't do a CS if she doesn't sign the consent, she said Already done yesterday in preadmission. I got the form and gave it to her and she tore it up. Judy - WOW, that is such an empowering and symbolic thing - to tear up the presigned CS consent form. I just got my records this week, which was quite an emotional thing, reading over them. And when I saw my CS Consent Form, I got so upset. There was my signature, all scrawled and distorted, and it lept out from the page at me. It seems to me like it was the last thing I wrote before I lost my innocence. I signed after 30 hrs of labour (22 hrs drug free), and I was in a bad way. In shock, confused, and surprised I was still alive, I still managed to sign my name. Must go - I am a bit upset. Melissa The new MSN 8: http://g.msn.com/8HMCEN/2018 smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda it does sound like a really difficult/desperate situation. However, usually birth suite is not over abundant with midwives and with your friend in rapid labour doesn't sound like they could have become involved in child care too. I always thoroughly discuss the many scenarios that parents must consider happening when a child is included in the birth plan including being minded by people not at the birth itself. My own 2 older daughters were at the birth of their sister in an alternative birthing center in Chicago almost 22years ago now!! Kristin was 4and 1/2and Elyse was 3 at the time. Of course I have the photos of them on the bed beside me: a double bed with a bean bag, Kristin saying push mummy push, three pushes and she was crying lustily in my arms. Elyse was a bit stunned by it all. My father was their support person, my mother and my husband(their father)mine. They were watching Sesame Street in the family room next door when Dad was told to bring them in (they had been in and out during the couple of hours of labour), they hopped up on the bed and Dad stood back in awe and Rachael made her entrance to the world. Kristin is now studying to be a nurse midwife in the USA and Elyse is completing her RN (going back for the graduation next week) and Rachael is studying to be a vet. Kristin remembers the birth vividly (re-enacted it many, many times in preschool as did many of her classmates at the time, Chicago, I guess, was a little hot bed of alternative parenting at the time) and has used it extensively on her letters of application to midwifery schools. Wouldn't have done it any other way.Actually we would have been in big financial doo doo if there had been even a tiny complication (like a suture or 2), I didn't think about that until afterwards. Oh this birth and labor happened from 8am when my mum (a midwife) examined me at home (she had brought cord clamps, gloves etc.. in case of a blizzard and she had to be my midwife) to make sure I was in active labour (I guess I wasn't making enough noise), gave the go ahead to proceed to the birth center (lovely sunny but cold day in January, 1981 ~ 2degrees celsius), it was 9am when we got there and settled in, Rach appeared at 12.10 just after Electric company, I think. Do note the TV was NOT in my room, though it was a suite and we were all wandering around. much love marilyn- Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin,
[ozmidwifery] VBAC woman seeking supportive midwife/obstetrician in Riverland, SA
I have been contacted by a woman in Waikerie in South Australias Riverland, who has been told by her present ob that she can not have a vbac at all. Had a damn CT pelvimetry with first baby after it popped out of her pelvis at 38 weeks and was 'electively' sectioned for an inadequate pelvis. GR! This creep of an obstetrician is not even willing to let her try. She is 4 months so needs a good referral ASAP. Hope someone knows a wonderful midwife I could refer her to. TIA Carolyn CARES SA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
