Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[laurelle williams]

Sally,
I could not agree more!!!  Let's all work together as members, supporting
ACMI, in pursuing exactly that.
Laurelle

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RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Robyn Thompson]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract



Jan 
you have put the case well.
 
To 
ripple the waters and move beyond the boundaries of constraint will bring 
fruitful change.
 
Midwives need to be strong, united and show real support for each other 
regardless of where they practice (observe the medical profession when they 
are faced with a challenge).  That is why they have been successful in 
obtaining Government support for the Professional Indemnity Crises.  To me 
this means inequality and maybe we should be pursuing as a strong, united group 
the challenge of Professional Indemnity inequality that now 
exists.
 
Robyn
www.melbmidwifery.com.au 
 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan 
  RobinsonSent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 4:11 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  SalariedVersusContractOn 27/11/02 
  10:35 PM, "Sally Westbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  I don’t think that we should have 
to run business to be considered to be a profession. The really important 
issues are around the regulation of midwifery. I believe that midwifery 
should be regulated by professional midwifery organizations. For example. If 
my husband, the electrician were contracted to the hospital to install 
electrical equipment, the hospital would not provide him with guidelines 
because he has guidelines/rules for how he should do it. These are standards 
provided by his training and licencing bodies, which is from electricians. 
Similarily we should be able to be contracted to the hospital to provide 
midwifery services and be expected and trusted to work to a professional 
standard as guided by our professional body.If a doctor comes to work in the hospital where are 
the guidelines for his practice.. don’t we just expect he will work to a 
certain standard.  Come to think about it the doctors usually provide 
the guidelines for their particular likes and dislikes and the midwives run 
around providing gloves.. powdered or not powdered according etc ect 
 to the protocols that he provides.If we are going to change maternity services for 
women let us also put something in place that establishes us as autonomous 
practioners.Dear 
  SallyYou are spot on with your suggestion to put something in place of 
  the services we currently offer.Of course standards are most important 
  and our College has provided us with a list of competency standards that are 
  hard to beat.  But the “something” we really need to put in place of the 
  fragmented care that we currently offer is to commit ourselves to really being 
  more “with  woman” as our title suggests. We need to phase out 
  practices that mean midwives are only partly with women  (an hour 
  here or a day or so there) and introduce more continuous care programs. 
   Surely midwives already employed could contract to their Area Health 
  Authroity to provide continuity of care. We still have enterprise bargaining 
  do we not? There is ample evidence to suggest that this type of care is safe, 
  if not safer, and women receiving continuous care with midwives experience 
  more personal satisfaction. As well, the midwife offering such professional 
  services feels more professional satisfaction.  Apart from professional 
  satisfaction midwives midwives experience they are less likely to make 
  mistakes or be involved in misunderstandings during critical times of the 
  pregnancy as the one-to-one communication makes this less likely . 
    The difference in client satisfaction between continuous 
  and fragmented standards was explained to me recently by a woman who had her 
  first baby in New Zealand and the next one at a large Sydney teaching 
  hospital. She told me that the NZ midwives made her feel “really special”. 
  They already knew her when she came into their hospital to give birth and they 
  even visited her at home and “put fresh linen on my bed at home and bought me 
  flowers” the next day. She was totally impressed with these kindnesses. 
   There was no comparison between the NZ experience and the Sydney 
  experience where the midwives were nice to her (and she had no complaints at 
  all about them) but she felt she was just another number on their list and she 
  never saw them again when she went home. One of the hallmarks of any 
  professional is that they have their own clients within their own practice and 
  are able to provide private, personalised care. The service provided by 
  professionals who contract directly with their clients is quite different to 
  that provided by a professional who is employed by someone else, particularly 
  critical care institutions. I challenge all midwives who care for hospital 
  patients to ask them today ... “would you like to have the services of your 
  own midwife throughout your pregnancy if they were available? Would you l

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Jan Robinson]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract



On 27/11/02 10:35 PM, "Sally Westbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I don’t think that we should have to run business to be considered to be a profession. 

The really important issues are around the regulation of midwifery. I believe that midwifery should be regulated by professional midwifery organizations. For example. If my husband, the electrician were contracted to the hospital to install electrical equipment, the hospital would not provide him with guidelines because he has guidelines/rules for how he should do it. These are standards provided by his training and licencing bodies, which is from electricians. Similarily we should be able to be contracted to the hospital to provide midwifery services and be expected and trusted to work to a professional standard as guided by our professional body.

 

If a doctor comes to work in the hospital where are the guidelines for his practice.. don’t we just expect he will work to a certain standard.  Come to think about it the doctors usually provide the guidelines for their particular likes and dislikes and the midwives run around providing gloves.. powdered or not powdered according etc ect  to the protocols that he provides.

 

If we are going to change maternity services for women let us also put something in place that establishes us as autonomous practioners.

Dear Sally

You are spot on with your suggestion to put something in place of the services we currently offer.

Of course standards are most important and our College has provided us with a list of competency standards that are hard to beat.  But the “something” we really need to put in place of the fragmented care that we currently offer is to commit ourselves to really being more “with  woman” as our title suggests. 
We need to phase out practices that mean midwives are only partly with women  (an hour here or a day or so there) and introduce more continuous care programs.  
Surely midwives already employed could contract to their Area Health Authroity to provide continuity of care. We still have enterprise bargaining do we not? There is ample evidence to suggest that this type of care is safe, if not safer, and women receiving continuous care with midwives experience more personal satisfaction. As well, the midwife offering such professional services feels more professional satisfaction.  Apart from professional satisfaction midwives midwives experience they are less likely to make mistakes or be involved in misunderstandings during critical times of the pregnancy as the one-to-one communication makes this less likely .   

The difference in client satisfaction between continuous and fragmented standards was explained to me recently by a woman who had her first baby in New Zealand and the next one at a large Sydney teaching hospital. 
She told me that the NZ midwives made her feel “really special”. They already knew her when she came into their hospital to give birth and they even visited her at home and “put fresh linen on my bed at home and bought me flowers” the next day. She was totally impressed with these kindnesses.  There was no comparison between the NZ experience and the Sydney experience where the midwives were nice to her (and she had no complaints at all about them) but she felt she was just another number on their list and she never saw them again when she went home. 

One of the hallmarks of any professional is that they have their own clients within their own practice and are able to provide private, personalised care. The service provided by professionals who contract directly with their clients is quite different to that provided by a professional who is employed by someone else, particularly critical care institutions. I challenge all midwives who care for hospital patients to ask them today ... “would you like to have the services of your own midwife throughout your pregnancy if they were available? Would you like to choose where you will give birth to your baby if  the choice was available?

While individual midwives can work towards introducing continuous care standards in their practice our College must then promote and protect them. Offering a primary autonomous service is the major feature of any profession and our College should expect no less standard than this of it’s new B.Mid. graduates while encouraging those midwives already practising within the hospital system to be able to seek accreditation through demonstrate the ability to take on their own caseload and continuing to practice in this way. Caseload should in future become the norm and be seen as the major benchmark of clinical midwifery practice. 
I hope our College comes up with a program that only accepts midwives responsible for their own caseload as  accredited midwife practitioners. Hopefully all caseload midwives will all be issued with their ACMI “Gold Card” to let women and the public know about their philosophy of care.  


Regar

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Mary
I know this is a wondeful opportunity but the 
subsequent opportunities to use these skills are just as limited even more 
without PI insurance
 
The inequalites for women are the inequalities for 
midwives
 thus NMAP all of which requires action for 
its implementation!
denise
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mary 
  Murphy 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 10:17 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  SalariedVersusContract
  
  You wrote:"if a midwife wants to change her orientation then perhaps a 
  retraining could be offered?? However, this is the current system unless you 
  go off and start your own practice."  
   
  The Community Mid Program in W.A have a Preceptoring program which 
  employs a midwife for 8 Months and she is preceptored by a senior homebirth 
  midwife for 10 cases ( the number needed for ACMI accreditation).  It 
  works very well but as usual, since the loss of our autonomy with the P.I. 
  insurance debacle, we are struggling  to get it funded adequately.  
  The Dept of health can retrain for Re registration at the cost of about $5,000 
  but it takes a period of time and heaps more money to accredit a community 
  midwife. I guess the difference between an obstetric nurse and an autonomous 
  midwife.  Once again, the priorities are not with midwifery.  
  MM

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Tina
I concur with your last statement up to a point and 
I say this based on 30 years of midwifery and nursing !
 
The point is the that midwives as a group have 
lived and learnt sublimation and submission!Like the poem says about 
Children learning what they live!
Many of us who came through the hospital system as 
nurses and midwives saw gaining tertiary qualifications as a way to change 
things - knowledge is power etc.
 

Anyway we have had tertiary education for 20+ years 
and I see little positive or dramatic change in the health system even at the 
ward level I see task rather tan patient orientation and definitely institution 
needs first as everyone is struggling just to get the tasks done with few staff 
including many going the agency route to meet their unmet personal 
needs!
Personally  I have seen nursing students I 
taught and encouraged to be assertive, proactive and client centred in their 
school and clinical times, later join  hospitals and learn the lessons of 
sublimation eg I have been asked by ex students to sought out non-complying pts 
who listened to me because I listen to them!
 
Over all what I am getting at is I feel the 
imperative is to change the experience for midwives, the circumstances under 
which at least some midwives practice. All of us need to  demand the 
recognition of continuity of carer midwiferyrather than accept what is offered 
as only possible!
There are many precedents outside of nursing models 
and awards
 
In these times of pushing for NMAP we who support 
it, need  to debate, understand and grasp, explain promote the evidence in 
the document which argues for autonomous practice of this model of 
care.
 
The changes which have come in the last 20+ years 
of hospital based midwifery have come about because there has been MIPPs and 
homebirthers making demands on the system.
Without PI we already have diminution of MIPP ranks 
and those who stay risk state deregistration in Vic and maybe other states, with 
lose of numbers the existence of this group let alone its ability and power to 
influence and effect change is diminished.
If all remaining services are salaried and governed 
by medical bureaucrats and protocols where to for the future of Australian 
midwifery??How will the voices of hcange and 
dare I say dissent survive let alone be heard?
 
Denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  SalariedVersusContract
  In a message dated 27/11/02 12:29:44 PM AUS Eastern 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  Anyway what I am getting at is there has been no political will 
to look atmidwives differently, in terms of equity, midwifery as a 
professiondeservingsupport and new solutions for recurrent problems 
(the cost of escalatingintervention etc).At least not in Australia 
and I think part of the reason is the hand maidenstatus and mind set of 
midwives and women!What do others think?? Especially the 
Bmids??DeniseHi Denise...thanks for the 
  invitation to respond here...as a BMidderthe vision I have for my practice 
  is the ability to offer my service to women, wherever the woman chooses to 
  birth her babe...the issues with PII have certainly squashed the 
  independent   aspiration for now...though this is my long term 
  aim...but inorder to provide continuity of carerI'll take 
  salaried/contract work as a midwife to give women choices in their 
  birthingI think if midwives are smart/politically savvy and don't take the 
  medico approach of making decisions on behalf of women...then you can easily 
  work/negate your way around many a hospital or agency policy/protocolthe 
  final decisions in care and planning for birth rest with the woman...so she 
  can decide what is best for her if she is given information in which to make 
  her decisions...and be supported in whatever decisions she makes...I think 
  where midwives get into strife is where they start living/acting out their own 
  pol! ! itical agendas thru women who end up being the pawns in the whole 
  political process. Not an ideal situation...and the midwife who sees that she 
  has 'gone out on a limb' for a woman who is less than embracing of what the 
  midwife 'whats' for her...in the end comes out the loser...discontent, 
  disillusioned, frustrated and bitter with the birth world.Recently 
  in working with a follow thru woman, I attended her pregnancy care visits to 
  the hospitalher model of care was midwife-led care in a birthing 
  unit.but I was amazed at how subordinate and not so midwife-led it was. 
  Some of the midwives were in their care of the woman far happier to defer or 
  abdicate decisions to the doctors inorder to 'keep the peace' and were very 
  accepting of medical dominant policy/protocolWhile some of t

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Sorry All
 I was not meaning we had to run businesses 
though we should not fear that or get hooked on it, rather as Sally said as a 
profession we should want to be autonomous that is have midwives set the 
standards for midwives...
 
Again this is not an all in issue rather it is an 
option a choice for midwives
 
As we call for women to have choices so we should 
call for midwives to have choices!!
 
What are the consequences to our profession if we 
do not??
 
Denise 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sally 
  Westbury 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 10:35 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 
  SalariedVersusContract
  
  
  I don’t think that we 
  should have to run business to be considered to be a 
  profession.
   
  The really important 
  issues are around the regulation of midwifery. I believe that midwifery should 
  be regulated by professional midwifery organizations. For 
  example. If my husband, the electrician were contracted to the hospital 
  to install electrical equipment, the hospital would not provide him with 
  guidelines because he has guidelines/rules for how he should do it. These are 
  standards provided by his training and licencing 
  bodies, which is from electricians. Similarily we 
  should be able to be contracted to the hospital to provide midwifery services 
  and be expected and trusted to work to a professional standard as guided by 
  our professional body.
   
  If a doctor comes to 
  work in the hospital where are the guidelines for his practice.. don’t we just expect he will 
  work to a certain standard.  Come 
  to think about it the doctors usually provide the guidelines for their 
  particular likes and dislikes and the midwives run around providing 
  gloves.. powdered or not 
  powdered according etc ect  to the protocols that he 
  provides.
   
  If we are going to 
  change maternity services for women let  us also put something in place 
  that establishes us as autonomous practioners.
   
   

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Dear debbie
Congratulations to all
Are you able to explain what this package is 
about??denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 2:33 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  SalariedVersusContract
  In a message dated 11/27/02 9:29:44 AM W. Australia 
  Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  I thought you/CMWA were in negotiation for a special "award" 
because MIPPShomebirth midwives whatever you class yourselves as - 
definitely have moreresponsibility skills to Birth Centre midwives (the 
salary level) who followmore protocols, directions ,limits on their 
practice and autonomy, being inclose proximity to a hospital 
  etc.A special award is one of the things that would 
  help - but as far as being in negotiations about that one issue - it is more 
  complex than that, as I'm sure you will appreciate.  However, I must 
  stress that CMWA are committed to working through the various issues 
  surrounding the program (not just pay, but other working/ practice 
  conditions).  However, it is not going to be something that we can arrive 
  at overnight (more's the pity).Assent has just been given to the new 
  community insurance package here in WA.  We understand the the Program/ 
  Program midwives would be ideally suited to receive PI cover under this - but 
  it is still early days.  As such, that may solve some of the problems, 
  and allow us to go back to how it was 18 months ago.  But that still 
  doesn't resolve other issues such as general lack of funding etc. by the 
  DOH.  Debbie SlaterPerth, WAwriting in her capacity as 
  Chair of CMWA 

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Mary Murphy]

You wrote:"if a midwife wants to change her orientation then perhaps a 
retraining could be offered?? However, this is the current system unless you go 
off and start your own practice."  
 
The Community Mid Program in W.A have a Preceptoring program which employs 
a midwife for 8 Months and she is preceptored by a senior homebirth midwife for 
10 cases ( the number needed for ACMI accreditation).  It works very well 
but as usual, since the loss of our autonomy with the P.I. insurance debacle, we 
are struggling  to get it funded adequately.  The Dept of health can 
retrain for Re registration at the cost of about $5,000 but it takes a period of 
time and heaps more money to accredit a community midwife. I guess the 
difference between an obstetric nurse and an autonomous midwife.  Once 
again, the priorities are not with midwifery.  MM

RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Sally Westbury]

I don’t think that we should have to
run business to be considered to be a profession.

 

The really important issues are around the
regulation of midwifery. I believe that midwifery should be regulated by
professional midwifery organizations. For example. If
my husband, the electrician were contracted to the hospital to install
electrical equipment, the hospital would not provide him with guidelines
because he has guidelines/rules for how he should do it. These are standards
provided by his training and licencing bodies, which
is from electricians. Similarily we should be able to
be contracted to the hospital to provide midwifery services and be expected and
trusted to work to a professional standard as guided by our professional body.

 

If a doctor comes to work in the hospital
where are the guidelines for his practice.. don’t we just expect he will work to a certain
standard.  Come to think about it
the doctors usually provide the guidelines for their particular likes and
dislikes and the midwives run around providing gloves..
powdered or not powdered according etc ect  to the
protocols that he provides.

 

If we are going to change maternity
services for women let 
us also put something in place that establishes us as autonomous practioners.

 

 

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I totally concur with Tina. Although not as a B.Mid 
(though a member of the collective since I was a student when the collective 
began) but as a recent direct entry midwifery graduate/graduate midwife. I share 
her vision of providing/offering midwifery care (in the continuity of care 
model) to women in the care setting of the woman's choice: out of hospital 
or in hospital birth. Similarly lack of PI insurance is my issue.
 
I don't think midwives have to be independent 
practitioners in the sense of running their own business to be considered 
professionals. I don't think any other profession makes that distinction and I 
truly believe that we, midwives, should avoid making it. Saying that I do 
believe that when we practice outside of the sanctity of a woman's home we come 
under different constraints due to the place of practice. If midwives are not 
involved in the practice guidelines, procedures, and protocols of agencies 
(whatever they may be: hospitals etc..) that provide maternity care and hence 
either contract with or employ care providers then we should be. I do believe 
that the only way the majority of women 
will gain access to midwifery care as envisioned by the NMAP is through the 
public sector. It truly is only a select few who even know of independent 
midwives let alone the other issues. 
 
 I do think positions should be created for 
the new midwifery graduates getting them involved in caseload midwifery from the 
start. They should not have to orientate themselves to ward work unless they 
choose that as their orientation of practice. In this context Canada has a very 
good system of setting up caseload practices (including low volume and high 
volume practices) and incorporating new graduates with mentor midwives, I don't 
know but would bet that New Zealand does too. I guess I am saying we don't 
have to reinvent the wheel on this one. I want to be clear, I think it is 
essential that hospitals maintain core staffs of ward midwives. However, I don't believe it serves any purpose 
to insist that new graduates begin their careers this way. If a midwife wants to 
change her orientation then perhaps a retraining could be offered?? However, 
this is the current system unless you go off and start your own 
practice.
 
Regarding women's choice: in my midwifery program 
informed choice was a cornerstone, we wrote papers on it, we wrote our own, we 
role played it, we critiqued our mentor midwives and they critiqued us. We were 
all so aware how vulnerable and open to influence pregnant women are and what a 
powerful role we have as their midwives. However, it is a contentious issue, and 
it is an easy trap to give the information that reflects your choice (the 
midwives') or the institution which employs you (hospital). In this context(as 
well as others) I think peer review is an essential part of professional 
midwifery practice. I again agree with Tina's observations of variations in 
practice.
 
Regarding handmaiden status: we have to remodel 
this for each other. Role models, role models, role models. I personally don't 
think it is a gender issue. If we weren't a female dominated profession we'd call it "sucking up to the 
boss". Another name is syncophant. But we need role models. Ok I think I've said 
enough for the evening. I do think it is an 
authority issue.
 
That's all for now.
 
marilyn
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 6:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  SalariedVersusContract
  In a message dated 27/11/02 12:29:44 PM AUS Eastern 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  Anyway what I am getting at is there has been no political will 
to look atmidwives differently, in terms of equity, midwifery as a 
professiondeservingsupport and new solutions for recurrent problems 
(the cost of escalatingintervention etc).At least not in Australia 
and I think part of the reason is the hand maidenstatus and mind set of 
midwives and women!What do others think?? Especially the 
Bmids??DeniseHi Denise...thanks for the 
  invitation to respond here...as a BMidderthe vision I have for my practice 
  is the ability to offer my service to women, wherever the woman chooses to 
  birth her babe...the issues with PII have certainly squashed the 
  independent   aspiration for now...though this is my long term 
  aim...but inorder to provide continuity of carerI'll take 
  salaried/contract work as a midwife to give women choices in their 
  birthingI think if midwives are smart/politically savvy and don't take the 
  medico approach of making decisions on behalf of women...then you can easily 
  work/negate your way around many a hospital or agency policy/protocolthe 
  final decisions in care and planning for birth rest with the woman...so she 

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[DebSlater]

In a message dated 11/27/02 9:29:44 AM W. Australia Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I thought you/CMWA were in negotiation for a special "award" because MIPPS
homebirth midwives whatever you class yourselves as - definitely have more
responsibility skills to Birth Centre midwives (the salary level) who follow
more protocols, directions ,limits on their practice and autonomy, being in
close proximity to a hospital etc.


A special award is one of the things that would help - but as far as being in negotiations about that one issue - it is more complex than that, as I'm sure you will appreciate.  However, I must stress that CMWA are committed to working through the various issues surrounding the program (not just pay, but other working/ practice conditions).  However, it is not going to be something that we can arrive at overnight (more's the pity).

Assent has just been given to the new community insurance package here in WA.  We understand the the Program/ Program midwives would be ideally suited to receive PI cover under this - but it is still early days.  As such, that may solve some of the problems, and allow us to go back to how it was 18 months ago.  But that still doesn't resolve other issues such as general lack of funding etc. by the DOH.  

Debbie Slater
Perth, WA
writing in her capacity as Chair of CMWA

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[TinaPettigrew]

In a message dated 27/11/02 12:29:44 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Anyway what I am getting at is there has been no political will to look at
midwives differently, in terms of equity, midwifery as a profession
deserving
support and new solutions for recurrent problems (the cost of escalating
intervention etc).
At least not in Australia and I think part of the reason is the hand maiden
status and mind set of midwives and women!

What do others think?? Especially the Bmids??
Denise


Hi Denise...thanks for the invitation to respond here...as a BMidderthe vision I have for my practice is the ability to offer my service to women, wherever the woman chooses to birth her babe...the issues with PII have certainly squashed the independent   aspiration for now...though this is my long term aim...but inorder to provide continuity of carerI'll take salaried/contract work as a midwife to give women choices in their birthingI think if midwives are smart/politically savvy and don't take the medico approach of making decisions on behalf of women...then you can easily work/negate your way around many a hospital or agency policy/protocolthe final decisions in care and planning for birth rest with the woman...so she can decide what is best for her if she is given information in which to make her decisions...and be supported in whatever decisions she makes...I think where midwives get into strife is where they start living/acting out their own pol!
!
itical agendas thru women who end up being the pawns in the whole political process. Not an ideal situation...and the midwife who sees that she has 'gone out on a limb' for a woman who is less than embracing of what the midwife 'whats' for her...in the end comes out the loser...discontent, disillusioned, frustrated and bitter with the birth world.

Recently in working with a follow thru woman, I attended her pregnancy care visits to the hospitalher model of care was midwife-led care in a birthing unit.but I was amazed at how subordinate and not so midwife-led it was. Some of the midwives were in their care of the woman far happier to defer or abdicate decisions to the doctors inorder to 'keep the peace' and were very accepting of medical dominant policy/protocolWhile some of the midwives seem to embrace the whole responsibility/accountability thingmany do not...and would rather be seen in the handmaiden role in preference to accepting full responsibility for their midwife role. I suppose what I'm getting at here is if midwives don't see themselves differently to nurses...if midwives don't take themselves seriously as autonomous practitioners...if midwives don't have the trust and faith in their midwifery knowledge and skills to embrace responsibility and accountability...then how can we ask that anyo!
!
ne else doesbe it the government...the medical profession...the public..???

yours in reforming midwifery
Tina Pettigrew

Bachelor of Midwifery Student
Victoria University

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

I understand that Mary
but I also see the amount of money and effort the government has put into
helping doctors keep their exorbitant PI insurance whilst they have
maintained their contracts and positions, without any changes to their
practices!

In fact I understand GP-Obs are paid retainers to stay in regional NSW
before and since the UAP fiasco and since the latter  the government is
either paying or contributing to their PI insurance as long as some of their
practice stays with in the public sector!?
Please some one correct me if I am wrong.
My source was reliable but new to me.

So much is done to maintain up the medical profession's exorbitant PI
with out any demands for them to be more accountable let alone reflect on
their contribution to this situation - at least not from those who have the
ability to change their behaviour.
There was a neonatologist from Newcastle who talk about how medicine had
created the unreal expectation of the perfect baby...

I am sure if the government nationally here and elsewhere was to push the
insurance industry they could/ would separate in risk terms midwifery from
medical birth.

WA Riskcover did to a degree, thus the insurer supported CMWA staying CMWA
and not going under a hospital as the hospital wanted!

In fact your position on CMWA is both salaried and contracted in that you
are contracted to CMWA and accountable to them as you were when paid by
contract by them.So the possible limitation to your practice did not come
with the salary as it could with other proposals.
In both instances the source of the payment for CMWA midwives was/is the
public purse,

I thought you/CMWA were in negotiation for a special "award" because MIPPS
homebirth midwives whatever you class yourselves as - definitely have more
responsibility skills to Birth Centre midwives (the salary level) who follow
more protocols, directions ,limits on their practice and autonomy, being in
close proximity to a hospital etc.

Meanwhile I suspect there are others on contract to the WA Health dept
through the same pay office as CMWA midwives, probably in most or all states
for whom the
government pays the contractor's PI insurance as part of the deal,
consultants for instance, possibly others?

Does any one know?
I will try to find out!

Also i am curios as to what is the comparative salary deal for nurse
practitioners??

Anyway what I am getting at is there has been no political will to look at
midwives differently, in terms of equity, midwifery as a profession
deserving
support and new solutions for recurrent problems (the cost of escalating
intervention etc).
At least not in Australia and I think part of the reason is the hand maiden
status and mind set of midwives and women!

What do others think?? Especially the Bmids??
Denise
- Original Message -
From: Mary Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> Denise Wrote "> Why not CONTRACT  midwives to give continuity of care to
> healthy women?"
> That is how we midwives in W.A. and the Community Midwifery Program worked
> before the P.I. insurance failure.  The only problem with contracting, is
> that all contractors HAVE to have P.I. insurance.  That is why we are now
in
> an unsatisfactory salaried position.  MM
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.



--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract- Midicare!

[DebSlater]

In a message dated 11/26/02 7:11:05 AM W. Australia Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I understand to have copy right you just haveto state it
So MIDICARE belongs to
Australian midwives and others who recognise midwives true value to
Australia's birthing women and their families!


MIDICARE would be a trademark, and is subject to trademark law rather than copyright law, so it's not quite true to say that you just have to state it and you own it (and definately not patent law - which is about protecting ideas). Copyright protects artistic works and - as you say - subsists automatically.

I've done a quick search on the IP Australia web site, and there is nothing registered there, but if someone is already using the word (even though they haven't registered it) - or a word that sounds similar - for goods or services that are the same (or of the same description), then they may have common law rights to use the word, and which could be infringed.

Debbie Slater
Perth, WA
- and who in another life is a Patent Attorney

RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Lynne Staff]

Professionals who are contracted also have insurance - a slight sticking
point at the moment...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Denise Hynd
Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 7:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


Exactly
The double standards are to be resisted internally as well as externally
imposed!

Why can the bureacrats and polies not get their heads around the equality
issues
Equal pay and staus for equal work (and better outcomes!)
Perhaps because we as a profession do not see our own value and push it??

Why is autonomy not an issue for midwives?

In every definition  autonomy is part of being a profession!
So why is it not an issue for the Australain midwifery profession and its
professional body??

Why not CONTRACT  midwives to give continuity of care to healthy women?

CONTRACTORS do the job as their expertise tells them is most approopriate.

Electricians, plumbers etc do not have the person paying for the job tell
them  how to do it, because they are contracted not salaried!!

Electricians etc can manage the business side of this what is so abhorent to
midwives?

What do the BMids on the list think ??

Denise
- Original Message -
From: Lynne Staff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> Yay Sally!!! This is precisely the valuing of midwifery services that we
> need - I was discussing  midwives being at the births of women in private
> hospitals when the obs are not there and how they still get their $500-00
or
> whatever it is (for being absent)and we are there, but we get $22 per
> hourwhat does that tell us?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sally Westbury
> Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 9:57 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> I agree that birthing choice must be a freely (in both senses of the
> word) available for all women.
>
> GP's practice with a huge amount of autonomy. No-one dictates to them
> how they run their practice but they can if they choose bulk bill and so
> provide free service to their clients.
>
> GP's can use alternative therapies and bulk bill for it with their
> provider number.
>
> Lets really fight for out autonomy as well as our work to be paid for
> from the public purse.
>
> Let the guideline come from our professional bodies rather than the
> health dept.
>
> This is also a battle about our status as a professional body. Do we
> wish to remain as workers for the state or professionals able to
> regulate themselves as do doctors, physiotherapists, speech therapists
> etc etc.
>
> Lets stand up for ourselves as well as birthing women.
>
> Sally Westbury
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marilyn
> Kleidon
> Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 2:13 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
> I totally agree with what Pete has said probably because I too have a
> strong
> socialist heart. I do believe that different localities can sort out
> with
> the women and midwives in their particular area practice guidelines,
> procedures, and protocols that are based on the midwifery model of care
> that
> all can live with. Surely each MIPP has their own set. I think since we
> are
> asking for government funding one way or another there has to be some
> give
> and take on these issues and as Pete said if we need to be employed by
> Govt
> to make NMAP happen then in effect we have increased choices for women.
> At
> least a lot of women. I really think if you expect to have no guidelines
> or
> too few  then it just will not happen.
>
> marilyn
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Malavisi, Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:26 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
> system
> my
> > future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to
> have
> > many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> > inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> > accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> > available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
> as
> > another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
> in
> > effect we have increased 

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Mary Murphy]

Denise Wrote "> Why not CONTRACT  midwives to give continuity of care to
healthy women?"
That is how we midwives in W.A. and the Community Midwifery Program worked
before the P.I. insurance failure.  The only problem with contracting, is
that all contractors HAVE to have P.I. insurance.  That is why we are now in
an unsatisfactory salaried position.  MM


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract- Midicare!

[Denise Hynd]

I understand to have copy right you just haveto state it
So MIDICARE belongs to
Australian midwives and others who recognise midwives true value to
Australia's birthing women and their families!
Denise Hynd
- Original Message -
From: Lynne Staff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> Absolutely!! (In QLD there is a data collection package called
Obicare)
> That way, we can get a patent on a name which encapsulates the service!!!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Denise Hynd
> Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2002 10:08 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> Dear Sally
> i would personally like that also
> But  call it Midicare
> Denise
> - Original Message -
> From: Sally Westbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:40 PM
> Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > My preferred option is that we should have a medicare rebate for
> > birthing service that could be used with a midwife.
> > Our women would be public clients (with public hospital as back-up) and
> > so insured through the health dept risk cover.
> > This is simply women choosing where the money that is going to be spent
> > on their publicly birth babies goes. It does not cost extra (probably
> > less) as the publicly booked women is going to use health dollars
> > wherever she births be that home or birth centre or hospital.
> > This would then give us much autonomy.
> >
> > Sally Westbury
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Malavisi,
> > Pete
> > Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2002 2:27 PM
> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
> >
> > I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
> > system my
> > future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to have
> > many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> > inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> > accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> > available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
> > as
> > another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
> > in
> > effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control
> > will
> > continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like I'm
> > rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
> >
> >
> > Dear Pete,
> > That is the rub
> > With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out
> > government
> > support/employment!!
> > So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
> > consumers.
> >
> > Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a
> > salary
> > situation.
> > What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
> > already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to
> > them so
> > why should salaried community midwives be any different.
> >
> > Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes
> > come
> > in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
> >
> >
> > > I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe the
> > > service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> > > privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing with
> > the
> > > money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in
> > midwifery
> > > pete malavisi
> > >
> > > --
> > > --
> > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored b

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Exactly
The double standards are to be resisted internally as well as externally
imposed!

Why can the bureacrats and polies not get their heads around the equality
issues
Equal pay and staus for equal work (and better outcomes!)
Perhaps because we as a profession do not see our own value and push it??

Why is autonomy not an issue for midwives?

In every definition  autonomy is part of being a profession!
So why is it not an issue for the Australain midwifery profession and its
professional body??

Why not CONTRACT  midwives to give continuity of care to healthy women?

CONTRACTORS do the job as their expertise tells them is most approopriate.

Electricians, plumbers etc do not have the person paying for the job tell
them  how to do it, because they are contracted not salaried!!

Electricians etc can manage the business side of this what is so abhorent to
midwives?

What do the BMids on the list think ??

Denise
- Original Message -
From: Lynne Staff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> Yay Sally!!! This is precisely the valuing of midwifery services that we
> need - I was discussing  midwives being at the births of women in private
> hospitals when the obs are not there and how they still get their $500-00
or
> whatever it is (for being absent)and we are there, but we get $22 per
> hourwhat does that tell us?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sally Westbury
> Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 9:57 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> I agree that birthing choice must be a freely (in both senses of the
> word) available for all women.
>
> GP's practice with a huge amount of autonomy. No-one dictates to them
> how they run their practice but they can if they choose bulk bill and so
> provide free service to their clients.
>
> GP's can use alternative therapies and bulk bill for it with their
> provider number.
>
> Lets really fight for out autonomy as well as our work to be paid for
> from the public purse.
>
> Let the guideline come from our professional bodies rather than the
> health dept.
>
> This is also a battle about our status as a professional body. Do we
> wish to remain as workers for the state or professionals able to
> regulate themselves as do doctors, physiotherapists, speech therapists
> etc etc.
>
> Lets stand up for ourselves as well as birthing women.
>
> Sally Westbury
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marilyn
> Kleidon
> Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 2:13 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
> I totally agree with what Pete has said probably because I too have a
> strong
> socialist heart. I do believe that different localities can sort out
> with
> the women and midwives in their particular area practice guidelines,
> procedures, and protocols that are based on the midwifery model of care
> that
> all can live with. Surely each MIPP has their own set. I think since we
> are
> asking for government funding one way or another there has to be some
> give
> and take on these issues and as Pete said if we need to be employed by
> Govt
> to make NMAP happen then in effect we have increased choices for women.
> At
> least a lot of women. I really think if you expect to have no guidelines
> or
> too few  then it just will not happen.
>
> marilyn
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Malavisi, Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:26 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
> system
> my
> > future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to
> have
> > many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> > inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> > accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> > available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
> as
> > another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
> in
> > effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control
> will
> > continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like
> I'm
> > rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>

RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Lynne Staff]

Yay Sally!!! This is precisely the valuing of midwifery services that we
need - I was discussing  midwives being at the births of women in private
hospitals when the obs are not there and how they still get their $500-00 or
whatever it is (for being absent)and we are there, but we get $22 per
hourwhat does that tell us?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sally Westbury
Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 9:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


I agree that birthing choice must be a freely (in both senses of the
word) available for all women.

GP's practice with a huge amount of autonomy. No-one dictates to them
how they run their practice but they can if they choose bulk bill and so
provide free service to their clients.

GP's can use alternative therapies and bulk bill for it with their
provider number.

Lets really fight for out autonomy as well as our work to be paid for
from the public purse.

Let the guideline come from our professional bodies rather than the
health dept.

This is also a battle about our status as a professional body. Do we
wish to remain as workers for the state or professionals able to
regulate themselves as do doctors, physiotherapists, speech therapists
etc etc.

Lets stand up for ourselves as well as birthing women.

Sally Westbury






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marilyn
Kleidon
Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 2:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

I totally agree with what Pete has said probably because I too have a
strong
socialist heart. I do believe that different localities can sort out
with
the women and midwives in their particular area practice guidelines,
procedures, and protocols that are based on the midwifery model of care
that
all can live with. Surely each MIPP has their own set. I think since we
are
asking for government funding one way or another there has to be some
give
and take on these issues and as Pete said if we need to be employed by
Govt
to make NMAP happen then in effect we have increased choices for women.
At
least a lot of women. I really think if you expect to have no guidelines
or
too few  then it just will not happen.

marilyn

- Original Message -
From: "Malavisi, Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
system
my
> future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to
have
> many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
as
> another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
in
> effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control
will
> continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like
I'm
> rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> Dear Pete,
> That is the rub
> With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out
government
> support/employment!!
> So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
> consumers.
>
> Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a
salary
> situation.
> What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
> already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to
them
so
> why should salaried community midwives be any different.
>
> Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes
come
> in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
> - Original Message -
> From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe
the
> > service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> > privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing
with
the
> > money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in
midwifery
> > pete malavisi
> >
> > --
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
>

RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Lynne Staff]

Absolutely!! (In QLD there is a data collection package called Obicare)
That way, we can get a patent on a name which encapsulates the service!!!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Denise Hynd
Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2002 10:08 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


Dear Sally
i would personally like that also
But  call it Midicare
Denise
- Original Message -
From: Sally Westbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> My preferred option is that we should have a medicare rebate for
> birthing service that could be used with a midwife.
> Our women would be public clients (with public hospital as back-up) and
> so insured through the health dept risk cover.
> This is simply women choosing where the money that is going to be spent
> on their publicly birth babies goes. It does not cost extra (probably
> less) as the publicly booked women is going to use health dollars
> wherever she births be that home or birth centre or hospital.
> This would then give us much autonomy.
>
> Sally Westbury
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Malavisi,
> Pete
> Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2002 2:27 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
> I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
> system my
> future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to have
> many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
> as
> another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
> in
> effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control
> will
> continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like I'm
> rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> Dear Pete,
> That is the rub
> With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out
> government
> support/employment!!
> So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
> consumers.
>
> Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a
> salary
> situation.
> What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
> already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to
> them so
> why should salaried community midwives be any different.
>
> Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes
> come
> in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
> - Original Message -
> From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe the
> > service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> > privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing with
> the
> > money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in
> midwifery
> > pete malavisi
> >
> > --
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
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Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Marilyn Kleidon]

 I do believe that GP's and Physios and any other healthcare provider who is
salaried or contracted to a govt agency in one way or another has to work by
practice guidelines, procedures, and protocols: I have seen them, the big
folders with the paper in them. I would totally expect that midwives
contractred or salaried to a govt agency would  be in the same position. It
isn't being told what to do or shouldn't be, it is simply everyone knowing
what is expected of each other. Similarly, if GP's, Physios, OT's, Massage
Therapists etc. are working in private practice then they would have their
own guidelines etc., or is this not done in Australia?? It is my
understanding that this is part of professional practice. I would expect
that since NMAP is a new concept, in regions where it is adopted in a public
health/hospital context then the guidelines etc. would need to be negotiated
between the agency and the midwives and if as a midwife you can't accept
them then you wouldn't sign on. I guess I just don't think the idea of
contracted/salaried midwifery positions should be shelved because of
assumptions that care will be too restrictive.  I am probably missing
something.
regards.

marilyn
- Original Message -
From: "Sally Westbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 3:56 PM
Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> I agree that birthing choice must be a freely (in both senses of the
> word) available for all women.
>
> GP's practice with a huge amount of autonomy. No-one dictates to them
> how they run their practice but they can if they choose bulk bill and so
> provide free service to their clients.
>
> GP's can use alternative therapies and bulk bill for it with their
> provider number.
>
> Lets really fight for out autonomy as well as our work to be paid for
> from the public purse.
>
> Let the guideline come from our professional bodies rather than the
> health dept.
>
> This is also a battle about our status as a professional body. Do we
> wish to remain as workers for the state or professionals able to
> regulate themselves as do doctors, physiotherapists, speech therapists
> etc etc.
>
> Lets stand up for ourselves as well as birthing women.
>
> Sally Westbury
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marilyn
> Kleidon
> Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 2:13 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
> I totally agree with what Pete has said probably because I too have a
> strong
> socialist heart. I do believe that different localities can sort out
> with
> the women and midwives in their particular area practice guidelines,
> procedures, and protocols that are based on the midwifery model of care
> that
> all can live with. Surely each MIPP has their own set. I think since we
> are
> asking for government funding one way or another there has to be some
> give
> and take on these issues and as Pete said if we need to be employed by
> Govt
> to make NMAP happen then in effect we have increased choices for women.
> At
> least a lot of women. I really think if you expect to have no guidelines
> or
> too few  then it just will not happen.
>
> marilyn
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Malavisi, Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:26 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
> system
> my
> > future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to
> have
> > many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> > inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> > accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> > available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
> as
> > another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
> in
> > effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control
> will
> > continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like
> I'm
> > rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
> >
> >
> > Dear Pete,
> > That is the rub
> > With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out
&

RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Robyn Thompson]

This is the type of attitude that will unite midwives and enhance our
Professional maturation.

Robyn
www.melbmidwifery.com.au

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sally Westbury
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


I agree that birthing choice must be a freely (in both senses of the
word) available for all women.

GP's practice with a huge amount of autonomy. No-one dictates to them
how they run their practice but they can if they choose bulk bill and so
provide free service to their clients.

GP's can use alternative therapies and bulk bill for it with their
provider number.

Lets really fight for out autonomy as well as our work to be paid for
from the public purse.

Let the guideline come from our professional bodies rather than the
health dept.

This is also a battle about our status as a professional body. Do we
wish to remain as workers for the state or professionals able to
regulate themselves as do doctors, physiotherapists, speech therapists
etc etc.

Lets stand up for ourselves as well as birthing women.

Sally Westbury






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marilyn
Kleidon
Sent: Monday, 25 November 2002 2:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

I totally agree with what Pete has said probably because I too have a
strong
socialist heart. I do believe that different localities can sort out
with
the women and midwives in their particular area practice guidelines,
procedures, and protocols that are based on the midwifery model of care
that
all can live with. Surely each MIPP has their own set. I think since we
are
asking for government funding one way or another there has to be some
give
and take on these issues and as Pete said if we need to be employed by
Govt
to make NMAP happen then in effect we have increased choices for women.
At
least a lot of women. I really think if you expect to have no guidelines
or
too few  then it just will not happen.

marilyn

- Original Message -
From: "Malavisi, Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
system
my
> future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to
have
> many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
as
> another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
in
> effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control
will
> continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like
I'm
> rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> Dear Pete,
> That is the rub
> With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out
government
> support/employment!!
> So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
> consumers.
>
> Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a
salary
> situation.
> What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
> already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to
them
so
> why should salaried community midwives be any different.
>
> Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes
come
> in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
> - Original Message -
> From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe
the
> > service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> > privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing
with
the
> > money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in
midwifery
> > pete malavisi
> >
> > --
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit

Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I totally agree with what Pete has said probably because I too have a strong
socialist heart. I do believe that different localities can sort out with
the women and midwives in their particular area practice guidelines,
procedures, and protocols that are based on the midwifery model of care that
all can live with. Surely each MIPP has their own set. I think since we are
asking for government funding one way or another there has to be some give
and take on these issues and as Pete said if we need to be employed by Govt
to make NMAP happen then in effect we have increased choices for women. At
least a lot of women. I really think if you expect to have no guidelines or
too few  then it just will not happen.

marilyn

- Original Message -
From: "Malavisi, Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public system
my
> future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to have
> many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that as
> another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then in
> effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control will
> continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like I'm
> rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> Dear Pete,
> That is the rub
> With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out government
> support/employment!!
> So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
> consumers.
>
> Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a
salary
> situation.
> What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
> already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to them
so
> why should salaried community midwives be any different.
>
> Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes
come
> in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
> - Original Message -----
> From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> > I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe the
> > service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> > privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing with
the
> > money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in midwifery
> > pete malavisi
> >
> > --
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> --
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> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


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Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Sally
i would personally like that also 
But  call it Midicare
Denise
- Original Message - 
From: Sally Westbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> My preferred option is that we should have a medicare rebate for
> birthing service that could be used with a midwife.
> Our women would be public clients (with public hospital as back-up) and
> so insured through the health dept risk cover.
> This is simply women choosing where the money that is going to be spent
> on their publicly birth babies goes. It does not cost extra (probably
> less) as the publicly booked women is going to use health dollars
> wherever she births be that home or birth centre or hospital.
> This would then give us much autonomy.
> 
> Sally Westbury
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Malavisi,
> Pete
> Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2002 2:27 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
> 
> I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public
> system my
> future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to have
> many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
> inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
> accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
> available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that
> as
> another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then
> in
> effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control
> will
> continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like I'm
> rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
> 
> 
> Dear Pete,
> That is the rub
> With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out
> government
> support/employment!!
> So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
> consumers.
> 
> Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a
> salary
> situation.
> What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
> already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to
> them so
> why should salaried community midwives be any different.
> 
> Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes
> come
> in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
> - Original Message -
> From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
> 
> 
> > I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe the
> > service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> > privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing with
> the
> > money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in
> midwifery
> > pete malavisi
> >
> > --
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> 
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> 
> --
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RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Malavisi, Pete]

I am basically a socialist at heart, so I see Govt employed public system my
future, even with all the controls over the years I have managed to have
many excellent birthing experiences with women and their families,
inevitably it has meant jumping through some hoops at times but I have
accepted that as part of the deal, I still believe that PI should be
available to those who wish to practice privately as well but see that as
another issue.  If we can be employed by Govt to make NMAP happen then in
effect we have increased choices for women, the politics and control will
continue whatever system is chosen. hope this makes sense, feel like I'm
rambling a bit, yours in midwifery pete malavisi

-Original Message-
From: Denise Hynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, 23 November 2002 10:30
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


Dear Pete,
That is the rub
With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out government
support/employment!!
So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
consumers.

Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a salary
situation.
What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to them so
why should salaried community midwives be any different.

Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes come
in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
- Original Message -
From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe the
> service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing with the
> money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in midwifery
> pete malavisi
>
> --
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
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Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Pete,
That is the rub
With out PI it is precarious being in private practice with out government
support/employment!!
So the question of how this is done is important to all midwives and
consumers.

Because he who pays the piper calls the tune particularly if it is a salary
situation.
What tune will be played when the piper is the health depts well they
already have a host of protocols and a host of workers who adhere to them so
why should salaried community midwives be any different.

Then all women in NSW or which ever state whop rupture their membranes come
in get A/bs and IOL after x hours!!!
- Original Message -
From: Malavisi, Pete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe the
> service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
> privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing with the
> money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in midwifery
> pete malavisi
>
> --
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Malavisi, Pete]

I'm not too fussed whether it is salaried or contract but believe the
service has to provided by the government and those who want to work
privately can continue to do so.  I personally don't like dealing with the
money side of things though obviously need an income. yours in midwifery
pete malavisi

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Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Sally
Do you know how much control is put on the practice of the midwives on the
Northern Suburrbs Program??

Ffor as Robyn T, Mary M and others have indicated one of the concerns is the
restrictions on practice when salaried or even contracted!

For NMAP and the midwives who support it an important thingaspect of NMAP -
including a  push for community management of a la CMWA.

I feel that keeping future midwifery models out of the medical sector should
be of concern for women and non homebirth midwives for in the past
innovations in practice have come from the homebirth movement and trying to
entice this sector into hospitals.

Denise
- Original Message -
From: Sally Westbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> One interesting way of doing this is the way the Northern Suburbs
> Midwifery Programme (s.a) does it. They are salaried to Community Health
> rather then to Hospital/Medicailized health department. I think this
> could be an important differentiation as community health is much more
> driven by primary health care models and prevantative health models
> rather than under hospital beaurocracy.
>
> But then neither of these models would be my chosen one. Rather in the
> ideal world I would be contracted by the individual woman and medicare
> would rebate her midwifery care as for G.P's.
>
> In peace and joy
>
> Sally Westbury
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I would go for either, salary based on # of women cared for per year or per
month or contract, but I think there should be an upper limit on the number
of women a midwife can take on. And, I hate to say this but maybe for those
of us newly qualified (if we are eligible for positions??) there should be a
minimum number of clients we care for in a year. I would leave this up to
others more experienced than myself to determine this though. The only thing
I wouldn't like would be an hourly contract, I think the time we spend with
women should be at our and their discretion.  I must say I like the idea of
being employed as a community midwife rather than running my own business,
it is just a personality thing I think. Maybe a questionaire would be
helpful, it will be really tedious reaading all of our replies AND making
sense of them.

marilyn

- Original Message -
From: "Denise Hynd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:56 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> Dear Ozmid list,
> I would like some feedback,ideas /discussion about how supporters of NMAP
> and others, see the prospect of MIPP's being contracted to government to
> provide homebirth services compared to being salaried?
>
> Also should either or both of the above options be  arranged, managed via
> the health dept (central) or local area health services??
>
> What is the favoured option??
>
> How else could it be done so there is PI cover for MIPPs in Aust?
>
> I have my own ideas and responses to these proposals but as I say i would
> appreciate some idea of other concerned consumers and midwives responses,
> perceptions of these prospects?
> Thank you
> Denise Hynd(
>
> --
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RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Sally Westbury]

One interesting way of doing this is the way the Northern Suburbs
Midwifery Programme (s.a) does it. They are salaried to Community Health
rather then to Hospital/Medicailized health department. I think this
could be an important differentiation as community health is much more
driven by primary health care models and prevantative health models
rather than under hospital beaurocracy.

But then neither of these models would be my chosen one. Rather in the
ideal world I would be contracted by the individual woman and medicare
would rebate her midwifery care as for G.P's.

In peace and joy

Sally Westbury


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Re: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Robyn,
I understand how you feel but I many others walking away or seeing the only
way is to be salaried?

For many bureacrats who have a say in releasing health dollars they want
control for the payment(s)  particularly of PI insurance!!

denise
- Original Message -
From: Robyn Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


> Hi Denise
> Just a few minutes before I go out to see a mother at home.  Cut to the
> Chase.  In answer to your email.  I don't want to be contracted to anyone
> but the women who employ me.  I have worked within a bureaucracy for years
> and I really don't want to return to where other people can have control
> over me and my practice and stifle my creativity. I am a believer for what
> ever reason we need to work through this PI thing and in the end it will
> work out.  I am on the downward spiral for MIPP and have been fighting for
> midwives and women for years.  I really want to just get on with what I do
> best and that is working on a indivual/personalised relationship with
women
> this where my skill are best utilised.
>
> Look forward to your response,
>
> Lots of Love,Robyn
> www.melbmidwifery.com.au
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Denise Hynd
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:56 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract
>
>
> Dear Ozmid list,
> I would like some feedback,ideas /discussion about how supporters of NMAP
> and others, see the prospect of MIPP's being contracted to government to
> provide homebirth services compared to being salaried?
>
> Also should either or both of the above options be  arranged, managed via
> the health dept (central) or local area health services??
>
> What is the favoured option??
>
> How else could it be done so there is PI cover for MIPPs in Aust?
>
> I have my own ideas and responses to these proposals but as I say i would
> appreciate some idea of other concerned consumers and midwives responses,
> perceptions of these prospects?
> Thank you
> Denise Hynd(
>
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> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
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> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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RE: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract

[Robyn Thompson]

Hi Denise
Just a few minutes before I go out to see a mother at home.  Cut to the
Chase.  In answer to your email.  I don't want to be contracted to anyone
but the women who employ me.  I have worked within a bureaucracy for years
and I really don't want to return to where other people can have control
over me and my practice and stifle my creativity. I am a believer for what
ever reason we need to work through this PI thing and in the end it will
work out.  I am on the downward spiral for MIPP and have been fighting for
midwives and women for years.  I really want to just get on with what I do
best and that is working on a indivual/personalised relationship with women
this where my skill are best utilised.

Look forward to your response,

Lots of Love,Robyn
www.melbmidwifery.com.au

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Denise Hynd
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] SalariedVersusContract


Dear Ozmid list,
I would like some feedback,ideas /discussion about how supporters of NMAP
and others, see the prospect of MIPP's being contracted to government to
provide homebirth services compared to being salaried?

Also should either or both of the above options be  arranged, managed via
the health dept (central) or local area health services??

What is the favoured option??

How else could it be done so there is PI cover for MIPPs in Aust?

I have my own ideas and responses to these proposals but as I say i would
appreciate some idea of other concerned consumers and midwives responses,
perceptions of these prospects?
Thank you
Denise Hynd(

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This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.