Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
Yours don't, mine don't, Rob Studdert's don't, Juan Buhler's don't, many others don't, but quite a few have. Sometimes the color cast is very subtle, but it's noticeable. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Godfrey DiGiorgi > Shel, > > Nearly all of the JPEGs I post have an embedded sRGB profile, > regardless of whether they are grayscale or RGB. Are any of them > tinted? They're not on my screen, but I don't know how they render on > your screen. I'd say that if they have a tint, something is likely > off in your monitor calibration.
Re: Stacking lenses for macro.
Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Which lens are you using for the aperture? The rear lens. In case some people read this thread to gather information, I should add that if the reversed lens is used for stopping down, the result is vignetting. > You might want to consider a non macro lens for the rear lens. I've been afraid of that thought. :-) John Shaw's best combination involved a regular 200mm f/2.8, but I cannot foresee an enablement of that magnitude at the moment. Jostein This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: Re: OT - The Empirical Photographer
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, mike wilson wrote: I paid for my copy on June 14/03. William Robb About the same as me. So has _anyone_ here received one? Sigh. Order acknowledged Friday 27th June 2003. Not a peep since. Chris
Re: Shenandoah N.P. Wildflower weekend
Tom Reese wrote: Doug (the Wiseass) Brewer offered the following: On Dec 19, 2005, at 8:16 PM, Tom Reese wrote: Has anyone attended the Wildflower Weekend at Shenandoah National Park? Can you please share your experiences...campground full? lectures crowded? anything else I should know? yeah, it's all digital. Then I must go and convert the heathen to the Ektachromist religion. Tom (the Preacher Man) Reese Heal them, Brother. But, if you can't do that, give them a good scourging for me.
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
- Original Message - From: "Rob Studdert" Subject: Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones I just made a screen dump to illustrate the above, I opened the two sRGB files in PS, the one with the embedded sRGB I let open using the embedded CS, the one without I applied my monitor (device) CS profile. I then opened the web page in my Browser and placed it on top of the PS window, I then made a screen capture which I pasted into PS using my monitor profile, cropped it, converted it to sRGB and posted it to my web site. Cool. In this picture, Netscape Navigator is on the left, a Photoshop meld of the same four pictures are shown on the same monitor. http://users.accesscomm.ca/wrobb/pictures/oddends/screen.html William Robb
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 23:46, graywolf wrote: > On my monitor the two sRGB images are identical. The profiled profoto > image is darker. The unprofiled profoto image is washed out and > yellowish. Of course I am running color management on my system rather > than just in photoshop, and profoto is probably newer than my drivers. > Want to put up a couple of Adobe 98 images? However, I really do need to > recalibrate my system it has been ages... If all is working as it should be the images embedded with the ProPhoto RGB CS should be able to be opened in PS even if you don't have the driver loaded because the profile is embedded in the file. I'd like to know how the to images with embedded profiles look in PS given that you don't have ProPhoto loaded, it should work. :-) Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Pentax 645
On 20 Dec 2005 at 18:23, David Mann wrote: > It'd also depend on the tripod itself. I've heard that wooden > tripods are far superior because they actually damp the vibrations, > where metal legs will just ring at their resonant frequency. Carbon fibre supports are supposed to be good for damping vibrations too, though I've never really noticed. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: International house of pancakes - Pentax lens roadmap
FOV of a 36mm lens on 35 isn't particularly wide... Tim Sherburne wrote: Yes, a 24mm pancake would be a welcome addition. Something wide, fast, and small. Tim On 12/19/05 17:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone posted a link to this yet (I've been popping in and out of the list lately, so might have missed it)? http://www.digital.pentax.co.jp/en/lens/roadmap.pdf More pancakes??? D -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 20 Dec 2005 at 16:39, Rob Studdert wrote: > On 19 Dec 2005 at 23:36, graywolf wrote: > > > Didn't say anything about remapping colors, Rob, I said "assumes". What > > I meant by that is the browsers display photos as if they were sRGB no > > matter what you saved them as. If you did not save them as sRGB they > > will be misdisplayed. sRGB images look pretty much the same in my > > browsers as they do in Photoshop. > > All that says to me is that your monitor is close to sRGB or that your PS > colour work-space is set to your monitor profile. A non-CS aware Browser > simply > outputs the RAW RGB data to the screen driver so the colour space will be > whatever the device colour space is, if that's sRGB then that's what it will > be > but it it isn't it won't be sRGB. My monitor (device profile) isn't sRGB so > images mapped to sRGB look do look slightly different in my Browser. I just made a screen dump to illustrate the above, I opened the two sRGB files in PS, the one with the embedded sRGB I let open using the embedded CS, the one without I applied my monitor (device) CS profile. I then opened the web page in my Browser and placed it on top of the PS window, I then made a screen capture which I pasted into PS using my monitor profile, cropped it, converted it to sRGB and posted it to my web site. http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/colourspaces.jpg (~275kB) What can be deduced from this image is that my Browser fails to display the files with embedded profiles correctly and when the Browser view is compared to the file imported into PS as sRGB (bottom left) it's very slightly less saturated than the file imported using the device profile my Browser doesn't actually even render sRGB correctly. If I wanted it to render sRGB correctly in my Browser I'd have to compromise on my whole systems colour calibration by calibrating my screen to sRGB. So if I want to properly scrutinize any image I down-load it and open it in a colour aware application. Two pretty practical raves re color spaces can be seen here: http://blogs.smugmug.com/great-prints/ http://www.smugmug.com/help/srgb-versus-adobe-rgb-1998 Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: MX-Qs
My MX had the flash problem after someone had borrowed it for 4 years. The MX has a switch on the hotshoe that connects it when a flash is attached. This stops the possibly high voltage from a flash connected to the PC socket being live and easy to touch - and hurt yourself. I just bypassed the switch so the hotshoe was live all the time. It's easy to fix if you are good with small tools. If not then get someone else to do it. I know you got the timer working, so I won't mention that. Leon http://www.bluering.org.au http://www.bluering.org.au/leon cbwaters wrote: So after fitting new batteries in the MX I've found a couple things I'd like to ask other owners about. So anon to the internet! The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. Thanks, CW
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On Dec 19, 2005, at 9:25 PM, David Mann wrote: (On Mac OS X, both the Safari and Internet Explorer browsers honor profiles. Safari in particular does a very high quality job of rendering JPEG images accurately.) Mac IE will only do it so you tell it to... the relevant option is off by default. Oh and Mac IE is out of date and soon to be completely unsupported :( That's ok by me. I never use it ... It is slow and clumsy compared to Safari or FireFox. Godfrey
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
Shel, Nearly all of the JPEGs I post have an embedded sRGB profile, regardless of whether they are grayscale or RGB. Are any of them tinted? They're not on my screen, but I don't know how they render on your screen. I'd say that if they have a tint, something is likely off in your monitor calibration. Godfrey On Dec 19, 2005, at 6:23 PM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: My concern is that I've seen a number of sRGB "greyscale" images with severe color tints. I don't believe all of them were intended to be tinted. It's not so much a matter of saving space as it is of getting, and showing, the intended result.. Shel [Original Message] From: Rob Studdert On 19 Dec 2005 at 9:21, Shel Belinkoff wrote: That doesn't make sense since SFW strips out the color profiles. I post all my B&W as greyscakle, not sRGB haven't had any complaints yet. Have a look at the details of a grayscale image saved using SFW, you'll find it's a 24 bit jpeg. As far as I'm aware it's only possible to save grayscale jpeg images as grayscale out of PS using "save" or "save as". Curiously there is little to be gained saving a jpeg as a grayscale image, the file size is almost the same as the same image saved in RGB format. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On Dec 20, 2005, at 12:27 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: On 19 Dec 2005 at 17:12, graywolf wrote: I believe that most of them assume sRGB. I think you'll find that most of them simply don't care, web authors assume that the average desk-top calibration is a reasonable approximation of sRGB, I don't believe that any Windows browsers actually re-map colours, they just provide a linear output to the screen. (not any that I've tested on multiple Windows platforms anyhow). I think you're right about that. sRGB is actually a pretty close match to most computer screens - IIRC that was by design, and the cynic in me suspects that the reason is that MS wouldn't have to write a proper colour management engine for screen rendering. Safari and Mac IE just hook into ColorSync where all the work is done for them. I thought there was a setting somewhere that tells ColorSync what to assume if the file is untagged, but I can't find it now I suspect I'm thinking of Photoshop's colour settings. Mozilla on the Mac is apparently capable of using ColorSync as well: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/colorsync/ To be honest I think users of other platforms are SOL. Having said that it you need to be careful if you start applying profiles to web images. Anything that is supposed to blend into the page background colour will not work if the image is saved with a profile. This is because there is no colour space explicitly associated with the HTML colour codes so they are just assumed to be already in the monitor's colour space. So in a colour managed browser the image background colour is converted but the page background isn't. The difference is subtle - you see a faint border - but it's noticeable. I found this out the hard way when doing some web graphics. Because of this I convert all photos to sRGB and save with a profile, and any other web graphics are left untagged (they're almost always exported from Fireworks which doesn't understand profiles, perhaps deliberately). I still have a CS test page up on the web that I posted whe we were discussing this very same issue last April: http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/ICC_test.html I'm not sure when I did this but it's very similar in concept: http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/profile_test/ Basically if the bottom 3 pics all look the same then your browser does colour management. If not, the bottom row will look the same as the top row. Here's another one which tests support for ICC version 2 and 4 profiles. http://www.color.org/version4html.html - Dave
Re: MX-Qs
I've seen a number of MX's with dead self timers, I don't know how difficult that is to repair. The flash contacts on the shutter tend to corrode, if there isn't a lot of buildup cycling the shutter a number of times sometimes brings back flash operation, it probably needs a CLA however, it is at least 20 years old. cbwaters wrote: So after fitting new batteries in the MX I've found a couple things I'd like to ask other owners about. So anon to the internet! The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. Thanks, CW -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: PESO - Fractal Frost
No I was referring to the fact that there was no URL and my default browser color is white. Jack Davis wrote: I've wondered about the meaning, also. I await the answer. Jack --- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Looks cold and white on my monitor, how'd you get that polar bear to stay so still in the blizzard? I assume you're referring to the fact that it was taken with a macro and therefore this could be a closeup as opposed to telephoto shot? Or is it that you think I got knocked on my can and that was the noment of inspiration? Tom C. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 23:36, graywolf wrote: > Didn't say anything about remapping colors, Rob, I said "assumes". What > I meant by that is the browsers display photos as if they were sRGB no > matter what you saved them as. If you did not save them as sRGB they > will be misdisplayed. sRGB images look pretty much the same in my > browsers as they do in Photoshop. All that says to me is that your monitor is close to sRGB or that your PS colour work-space is set to your monitor profile. A non-CS aware Browser simply outputs the RAW RGB data to the screen driver so the colour space will be whatever the device colour space is, if that's sRGB then that's what it will be but it it isn't it won't be sRGB. My monitor (device profile) isn't sRGB so images mapped to sRGB look do look slightly different in my Browser. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Pentax 645
- Original Message - From: "David Mann" Subject: Re: Pentax 645 It'd also depend on the tripod itself. I've heard that wooden tripods are far superior because they actually damp the vibrations, where metal legs will just ring at their resonant frequency. I'll have to see if I can dig out my old tripod follies test from a few years back. William Robb
Re: GESO: eyes wide open - learning to use the 15mm
On Dec 20, 2005, at 7:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: on the Pentax *ist DS, the 14mm is my ideal for ultrawide, like with this photo of Arundel Castle in the UK: http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/large/37O-half.jpg I liked Arundel but found that going through the castle wasn't really worth what they were charging. Here's a photo I took... http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/uk_photos/Arundel/arundel%20castle.jpg Regarding ultrawides, it didn't take me long to find out just how difficult they are to use after the "wow" factor wears off. I only tend to pull mine out when I need to get *everything* in frame, and that isn't often. Panoramas are also very difficult to do when you go looking for them. - Dave
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On Dec 20, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: (On Mac OS X, both the Safari and Internet Explorer browsers honor profiles. Safari in particular does a very high quality job of rendering JPEG images accurately.) Mac IE will only do it so you tell it to... the relevant option is off by default. Oh and Mac IE is out of date and soon to be completely unsupported :( - Dave
Re: International house of pancakes - Pentax lens roadmap
Yes, a 24mm pancake would be a welcome addition. Something wide, fast, and small. Tim On 12/19/05 17:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Has anyone posted a link to this yet (I've been popping in and out of the list > lately, so might have missed it)? > > http://www.digital.pentax.co.jp/en/lens/roadmap.pdf > > More pancakes??? > > D > > >
Re: Pentax 645
On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:21 AM, Ronald Arvidsson wrote: I've at times thought to use seismometers to measure the vibratins from different cameras - being a seismologist. That's an interesting idea but I'm not sure if it'd be very accurate. For an accurate measurement of the vibration that actually affects the image you'd have to only measure the vibration while the shutter is open. These instruments can measure the exact frequencies of the vibrations and one could have a deterministic measured value and not just guesses which are based on how solid/loosely camrea is fixed to tripod or hand. Maybe I'll make a test within the next few weeks of this? It'd also depend on the tripod itself. I've heard that wooden tripods are far superior because they actually damp the vibrations, where metal legs will just ring at their resonant frequency. - Dave
Re: My newst picture
- Original Message - From: "Sunny Chung" Subject: My newst picture here's my latest picture: http://www.deviantart.com/view/26613765/ That is very nice indeed. William Robb
Re: PESO - another in my cold bird series
- Original Message - From: "Kenneth Waller" Subject: PESO - another in my cold bird series Check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html All comments solicited Yeah, nay, and/or otherwise Yay!! What would you do differently? I'd use an 600mm A on a Zone VI standard tripod with a Wimberley head. I'd also fumble and fiddle around until the bird bugged out. William Robb
Re: Stacking lenses for macro.
- Original Message - From: "Jostein" Subject: Stacking lenses for macro. Gang, Does anyone have a recommendation for lenses that can be stacked to give approximately 4x ? John Shaw warns in his book "closeups in nature" that not all combinations stack well together, and between the lines I read that very few actually do. I use an FA50/1.4 lens reversed in front of an A*200/4 macro. This combination gives 4x magnification, but has some problems with low contrast and serious problems at small apertures (refraction?). Which lens are you using for the aperture? You might want to consider a non macro lens for the rear lens. William Robb
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On my monitor the two sRGB images are identical. The profiled profoto image is darker. The unprofiled profoto image is washed out and yellowish. Of course I am running color management on my system rather than just in photoshop, and profoto is probably newer than my drivers. Want to put up a couple of Adobe 98 images? However, I really do need to recalibrate my system it has been ages... graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Rob Studdert wrote: On 19 Dec 2005 at 15:45, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Using Safari in Mac OS X, the two images with profiles look identical. The righthand sRGB image without profile is close but not the same as the sRGB image with profile (somewhat flat and lacking in brilliance by comparison), and the ProPhoto RGB image without profile is drab and dull by comparison to the others. They are exactly the results I'd expect from a CS aware Browser, is your device (monitor) CS G2.2? I'll stoke up my XP Pro machine later and check out the page, I have Firefox 1.5 and IE6 on it. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
Didn't say anything about remapping colors, Rob, I said "assumes". What I meant by that is the browsers display photos as if they were sRGB no matter what you saved them as. If you did not save them as sRGB they will be misdisplayed. sRGB images look pretty much the same in my browsers as they do in Photoshop. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Rob Studdert wrote: On 19 Dec 2005 at 17:12, graywolf wrote: I believe that most of them assume sRGB. I think you'll find that most of them simply don't care, web authors assume that the average desk-top calibration is a reasonable approximation of sRGB, I don't believe that any Windows browsers actually re-map colours, they just provide a linear output to the screen. (not any that I've tested on multiple Windows platforms anyhow). I still have a CS test page up on the web that I posted whe we were discussing this very same issue last April: http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/ICC_test.html Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Finally, world domination
I'll bet you a beer you can not keep that promise . graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Dave Brooks wrote: Well Maybe not world domination, but at least my bank account can rest now. The Zeniter arrived to night. Nice lens,well packed and NO extra duties to pay. rugift.com was good to deal with and it took about 2 1/2 weeks to get here at this busy time of year. Promised myself no new toys for the rest of 2005.Say thats only 12 days. Bwaa Haa Haa Dave David J Brooks Equine Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, Nikon D2H
Re: First PESO in a long while...
I agree that the background is too busy..cluttered..something. BUT, the color/B&W mix works great for me. Very nice effort. Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 12/19/2005 7:12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > The background is a little too busy, but the B&W treatment helps to > minimize that. I do find that the stark yellow is just a bit too > much > compared to the B&W, however. If the yellow were toned down some or > the B&W were more of a brown tone, it might balance a little better. > > -- > Bruce > > Ditto what he said. Except he said it better than I could have. :-) I > do find > the background a bit busy -- so I wouldn't pick it out as a picture > to do > things with. Anyway, all the rest Bruce said too since you have > picked it out. > > Marnie aka Doe > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO - another in my cold bird series
Nicely picked off. Looks unhappy, cold and damp. DOF somewhat shallow. Tail is soft, but I like the shot. Jack --- Kenneth Waller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Check out > http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html > > All comments solicited > > Yeah, nay, and/or otherwise > > What would you do differently? > > Thanks in advance > > Kenneth Waller > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: My newst picture
In a message dated 12/19/2005 5:11:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: here's my latest picture: http://www.deviantart.com/view/26613765/ enjoy~ PS. My hunt for the 50mm FA still continues Very nice shot. The limited color range, grays/yellows/whites really helps make it -- in addition to the falling snow. File's a bit big, takes a while for it to download into my browser. It has a nice artistic effect. Marnie aka Doe
Re: First PESO in a long while...
In a message dated 12/19/2005 7:12:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The background is a little too busy, but the B&W treatment helps to minimize that. I do find that the stark yellow is just a bit too much compared to the B&W, however. If the yellow were toned down some or the B&W were more of a brown tone, it might balance a little better. -- Bruce Ditto what he said. Except he said it better than I could have. :-) I do find the background a bit busy -- so I wouldn't pick it out as a picture to do things with. Anyway, all the rest Bruce said too since you have picked it out. Marnie aka Doe
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
Well, an interesting discussion. I've learned things. One of the things I've learned is I ought to start making my own actions. Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
In a message dated 12/19/2005 2:23:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Or, you could spend Christmas somewhere that they do have it, but your neighbours aren't there, so you don't need to make them cookies. = LOL. Good pt. Best laugh I've had this week. Marnie aka Doe ;-)
Re: First PESO in a long while...
The background is a little too busy, but the B&W treatment helps to minimize that. I do find that the stark yellow is just a bit too much compared to the B&W, however. If the yellow were toned down some or the B&W were more of a brown tone, it might balance a little better. -- Bruce Monday, December 19, 2005, 6:25:33 PM, you wrote: MR> This past semester has been huge. I had tons of work and the last three MR> weeks were particularly intense. Anyway, I'm one semester away from the MR> masters degree and on a break for three weeks. S... Here's a PESO MR> that was part of my Loire Valley collection, slightly revised and MR> cropped for an 8 x 10 print (to give as a gift to the couple who biked MR> with us). MR> http://www.robertstech.com/peso.htm
Re: Shenandoah N.P. Wildflower weekend
Doug (the Wiseass) Brewer offered the following: > On Dec 19, 2005, at 8:16 PM, Tom Reese wrote: > > > Has anyone attended the Wildflower Weekend at Shenandoah National > > Park? Can you please share your experiences...campground full? > > lectures crowded? anything else I should know? > > yeah, it's all digital. Then I must go and convert the heathen to the Ektachromist religion. Tom (the Preacher Man) Reese
Re: PESO - another in my cold bird series
Not fair! The birds around here don't get very cold. The color of the plumage really contrasts well to the surroundings. I'm a Yeah on this one. -- Bruce Monday, December 19, 2005, 5:32:48 PM, you wrote: KW> Check out KW> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html KW> All comments solicited KW> Yeah, nay, and/or otherwise KW> What would you do differently? KW> Thanks in advance KW> Kenneth Waller
Re: My newst picture
This is very cool. The effect is very much like a watercolor picture - very nice scene. -- Bruce Monday, December 19, 2005, 5:09:41 PM, you wrote: SC> here's my latest picture: SC> http://www.deviantart.com/view/26613765/ SC> enjoy~ SC> PS. My hunt for the 50mm FA still continues
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 18:23, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > My concern is that I've seen a number of sRGB "greyscale" images with > severe color tints. I don't believe all of them were intended to be > tinted. It's not so much a matter of saving space as it is of getting, and > showing, the intended result.. If an RGB image has been completely desaturated I don't believe that applying an incorrect profile will affect the output image colour, it may affect image gamma, but I've never witnessed colour casts. I suspect that what you may have seen are B&W scanned images that haven't been desaturated? Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Shenandoah N.P. Wildflower weekend
On Dec 19, 2005, at 8:16 PM, Tom Reese wrote: Has anyone attended the Wildflower Weekend at Shenandoah National Park? Can you please share your experiences...campground full? lectures crowded? anything else I should know? thanks Tom Reese yeah, it's all digital.
Re: First PESO in a long while...
Nice picture Mark. The bright yellow against the B&W bits really stands out. They'll love it. Dave > This past semester has been huge. I had tons of work and the last three > weeks were particularly intense. Anyway, I'm one semester away from the > masters degree and on a break for three weeks. S... Here's a PESO > that was part of my Loire Valley collection, slightly revised and > cropped for an 8 x 10 print (to give as a gift to the couple who biked > with us). > > http://www.robertstech.com/peso.htm > > > -- > Mark Roberts > Photography and writing > www.robertstech.com >
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
My concern is that I've seen a number of sRGB "greyscale" images with severe color tints. I don't believe all of them were intended to be tinted. It's not so much a matter of saving space as it is of getting, and showing, the intended result.. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Rob Studdert > On 19 Dec 2005 at 9:21, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > > > That doesn't make sense since SFW strips out the color profiles. I post > > all my B&W as greyscakle, not sRGB haven't had any complaints yet. > > Have a look at the details of a grayscale image saved using SFW, you'll find > it's a 24 bit jpeg. As far as I'm aware it's only possible to save grayscale > jpeg images as grayscale out of PS using "save" or "save as". Curiously there > is little to be gained saving a jpeg as a grayscale image, the file size is > almost the same as the same image saved in RGB format. > > > Rob Studdert > HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA > Tel +61-2-9554-4110 > UTC(GMT) +10 Hours > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ > Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
First PESO in a long while...
This past semester has been huge. I had tons of work and the last three weeks were particularly intense. Anyway, I'm one semester away from the masters degree and on a break for three weeks. S... Here's a PESO that was part of my Loire Valley collection, slightly revised and cropped for an 8 x 10 print (to give as a gift to the couple who biked with us). http://www.robertstech.com/peso.htm -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Finally, world domination
Well Maybe not world domination, but at least my bank account can rest now. The Zeniter arrived to night. Nice lens,well packed and NO extra duties to pay. rugift.com was good to deal with and it took about 2 1/2 weeks to get here at this busy time of year. Promised myself no new toys for the rest of 2005.Say thats only 12 days. Bwaa Haa Haa Dave David J Brooks Equine Photography in York Region www.caughtinmotion.com Pentax istD, Nikon D2H
RE: MX-Qs
Hi, There's a little button that needs to be pushed. It is uncovered when you push the lever down to set the timer. If you can't locate it, I'll send you a pic. Shel " ... " > [Original Message] > From: cbwaters > The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works > the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure?
Re: PESO - another in my cold bird series
Very nice. I might drop some off the left and top. Then again, maybe not. Excellent shot. Paul On Dec 19, 2005, at 8:32 PM, Kenneth Waller wrote: Check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html All comments solicited Yeah, nay, and/or otherwise What would you do differently? Thanks in advance Kenneth Waller
Re: My newst picture
Sunny Chung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >here's my latest picture: >http://www.deviantart.com/view/26613765/ Very nice. Looks kind of "Talbot-ish", except that it's in color and I suppose the tree in the foreground is a bit too sharp :) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
International house of pancakes - Pentax lens roadmap
Has anyone posted a link to this yet (I've been popping in and out of the list lately, so might have missed it)? http://www.digital.pentax.co.jp/en/lens/roadmap.pdf More pancakes??? D
PESO - another in my cold bird series
Check out http://mypeoplepc.com/members/kwaller/offwallphoto/id2.html All comments solicited Yeah, nay, and/or otherwise What would you do differently? Thanks in advance Kenneth Waller
Shenandoah N.P. Wildflower weekend
Has anyone attended the Wildflower Weekend at Shenandoah National Park? Can you please share your experiences...campground full? lectures crowded? anything else I should know? thanks Tom Reese
My newst picture
here's my latest picture: http://www.deviantart.com/view/26613765/ enjoy~ PS. My hunt for the 50mm FA still continues
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 19:34, Glen wrote: > Is it possible that I just don't have the ProPhoto color profile installed on > my > system? Don't you have to have something like that installed somewhere deep in > the bowels of your windows directory? :) No, an embedded profile contains the information required to render the image relative to that CS, it's not simply a line of text pointing to a local profile. Embedded an image with the sRGB profile causes it to become approximately 4kB larger in file size, most RGB CSs are quite small WRT file size, embedding some obscure RGB CS and most CMYK CS bloat files significantly. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Re: Stacking lenses for macro.
Bill Robb replied: > > Stacking lenses is an excellent way to drive yourself nuts. > > http://pug.komkon.org/01feb/pixels.html I think you were nuts before you started. TR
Re: PAD - photo a day
On 12/15/05, alkos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'd like to present you my site - http://pad.go.pl > > I hope you'll like it :-) > Very much so! You have some amazing work there. And I have been checking back daily. Thanks so much for sharing these with us. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
At 07:23 PM 12/19/2005, Rob Studdert wrote: If your Browser were CS aware then the images with embedded CS data would render identically, and if your screen CS was similar to the sRGB CS then the sRGB image without an embedded CS would render close to the two images with embedded profiles. The ProPhoto RGB image (without profile) will never render correctly on any system (unless the native display CS were ProPhoto RGB, which is impossible) it will look drab, so if the ProPhoto RGB image (with embedded profile) looks similar then you can be assured that the browser isn't CS aware. Is it possible that I just don't have the ProPhoto color profile installed on my system? Don't you have to have something like that installed somewhere deep in the bowels of your windows directory? :) thanks, Glen
Re: MX-Qs
I consistently hear good things about Eric Hendrickson. Info about his repair service is at pentaxs.com. KEH may be more convenient for you, but they're a little more expensive. Of course, if you decide it's not worth it to fix your flash problem, I'll be happy to relieve you of your burden. Money back plus shipping? On 12/19/05, cbwaters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Figured out the self-timer problem. It was cocked. Tom said to press the > little button to fire it off and BLAM-O, we're off to the races. > Now, how to connect my AF200T (not the AF220 I mentioned earlier, I don't > have one of those...) to the pc terminal... > > CW > REALLY excited to have a new camera...not that I needed one. > > > - Original Message - > From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:41 PM > Subject: MX-Qs > > > > So after fitting new batteries in the MX I've found a couple things I'd > > like to ask other owners about. So anon to the internet! > > > > The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It > > works the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? > > > > My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets > > it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's > > so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be > > pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. > > > > Thanks, > > CW > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005 > > > > > > -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: GESO: A day out with the Optio 60
Yep, they might be a bit darker than they should be. > Wondering, Juan, how you feel about the Optio's usefulness for this type > of work, now that you've tried it. Yes, you've shown the results, but > how did you find working with it? It was interesting :) I set the camera to Tv, and the shutter to 1/125, and later to 1/100 and 1/60 as I run out of light (It was dark out--this explains why some are kind of underexposed, since the lens was full open in those) Two things happen: 1) shutter lag is longer than with a more serious camera, and 2) there isn't a very good positive feedback of when you took the picture--the shutter click is too low to hear it in a crowd. So I would compose (a lot of them through the optical viewfinder, btw) and try to press the shutter a bit earlier than my instinct said. Lacking a time machine, this is hard to do. One good thing is that there is no way to use two hands to hold the Optio, so the left hand is free to do whatever you want. I alternately kept it in my pocket, held a hotdog or a drink, or used it to balance myself agaist a street sign :) In conclusion, I wouldn't use this as my main camera for street shooting. But it is nice to have, I think decent results can be obtained from it. I'll probably try to print one or two of those at 11x14 or so, just to see how well it holds up. j -- Juan Buhler http://www.jbuhler.com photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 15:45, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: > Using Safari in Mac OS X, the two images with profiles look > identical. The righthand sRGB image without profile is close but not > the same as the sRGB image with profile (somewhat flat and lacking in > brilliance by comparison), and the ProPhoto RGB image without profile > is drab and dull by comparison to the others. They are exactly the results I'd expect from a CS aware Browser, is your device (monitor) CS G2.2? I'll stoke up my XP Pro machine later and check out the page, I have Firefox 1.5 and IE6 on it. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 9:21, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > That doesn't make sense since SFW strips out the color profiles. I post > all my B&W as greyscakle, not sRGB haven't had any complaints yet. Have a look at the details of a grayscale image saved using SFW, you'll find it's a 24 bit jpeg. As far as I'm aware it's only possible to save grayscale jpeg images as grayscale out of PS using "save" or "save as". Curiously there is little to be gained saving a jpeg as a grayscale image, the file size is almost the same as the same image saved in RGB format. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
16bit is doable, the lower resolution is the kicker for save for web. Why should I make more work for myself when my current workflow handles all my output needs (I use Flickr, which handles creating the smaller rez images on display on flickr). This way I simply trigger the action when I'm done and I get a jpeg suitable for upload as well as printing on one of my printers (I have two, one dedicated to B&W, the other can handle both, I use a lab for prints beyond letter sized) and a PSD with layers in 16bit for archiving, potential further editing (usually to B&W) and other use. -Adam graywolf wrote: If I was going to send jpegs out to be printed I would save them specifically for that printer. On my printer I use 16 bit .psd files to print from. The printer driver converts to 8 bit and the printers color space. To me a jpeg is a final image, just like a print, I do nothing more with it, period. I keep wondering why folks want to make more needless work for themselves? Nothing else to do with their time? Marnie, you asked what 'save for web' does. As I understand it, it strips all extraneous information from the file and converts it to a 72 bpi, 8 bit, sRGB image file then saves at the compression settings you have set, or the default ones if you have not set them yourself. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/19/2005 12:09:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I save full-rez as I also use the JPEG for printing. Save for Web won't handle that. -Adam Hmmm, good pt. I sometimes print from JPEG. So what does Save for Web do exactly? As constrasted to just saving as a JPEG? I know someone mentioned one thing, but what are the other things? Excuse me, not very articulate -- tired -- just got through cooking 3 varieties of cookies, about 4 dozen each variety, as Xmas gifts four our neighbors. I am seriously thinking of skipping this next year. Maybe skipping Xmas entirely. Maybe finding some place to go that has never heard of Xmas. TIA, Marnie ;-)
Re: Stacking lenses for macro.
- Original Message - From: "Kostas Kavoussanakis" Subject: Re: Stacking lenses for macro. Interesting statement, can I just confirm that you are of the opinion that the A50/2.8 is sharp wide open? I would have guessed that it would be designed to work stopped down (*very* stopped down :-). All the macro lenses I have worked with (notable exceptions being the A100/2.8 and FA200/4) work very well close in at any aperture, but not so well at infinity. The A100/2.8 and FA200/4 seem to work well at every aperture and distance. William Robb
Re: Pentax 645
Sylwester Pietrzyk MLU on the 645N was only added for marketing reasons, since so many asked for it. ??? I thought it was added on 645NII :-) OK, NII. Dario
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
- Original Message - From: "Shel Belinkoff" Subject: Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones That doesn't make sense since SFW strips out the color profiles. I post all my B&W as greyscakle, not sRGB haven't had any complaints yet. I think you'll find that most programs default to sRGB if there is no colour space info provided. I habitually forget to change my profile to sRGB from ProPhoto prior to saving for web, which makes for an even suckier looking picture than I normally post. William Robb
Re: GESO: eyes wide open - learning to use the 15mm
- Original Message - From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" Subject: Re: GESO: eyes wide open - learning to use the 15mm There's no denying that making good compositions with ultra-wide lenses is difficult work. After a year or more of using a 15mm lens with my Leica cameras, I decided that 110+ degree diagonal FoV was simply too much. About 90 degree diagonal is a much more useable. On 35mm cameras, I stepped back to 20-21mm; on the Pentax *ist DS, the 14mm is my ideal for ultrawide, like with this photo of Arundel Castle in the UK: For general use on 35mm, I also found anything wider than the 20 was really too wide to control, the only time I use the 15 on film is as a last resort of the incompetent, when everything else I have tried hasn't worked. If you need it's FOV, then nothing else will do, but I admit to trying to find pictures that don't demand that much FOV. William Robb
Re: Re: Stacking lenses for macro.
- Original Message - From: "Tom Reese" Subject: Re: Re: Stacking lenses for macro. Stacking lenses is an excellent way to drive yourself nuts. http://pug.komkon.org/01feb/pixels.html William Robb
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On Dec 19, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/ICC_test.html Interesting. How do we interpret the results of viewing that page. Should all 4 images look the same, ideally? For me, the top two images have lower contrast and saturation. If your Browser were CS aware then the images with embedded CS data would render identically, and if your screen CS was similar to the sRGB CS then the sRGB image without an embedded CS would render close to the two images with embedded profiles. Using Safari in Mac OS X, the two images with profiles look identical. The righthand sRGB image without profile is close but not the same as the sRGB image with profile (somewhat flat and lacking in brilliance by comparison), and the ProPhoto RGB image without profile is drab and dull by comparison to the others. Godfrey
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >So what does Save for Web do exactly? As constrasted to just saving as a JPEG? > >I know someone mentioned one thing, but what are the other things? "Save for Web" does a number of things: * It gives you multiple format options (JPG, GIF, PNG) * Provides easy fine-tuning of file size * Shows multiple previews (so you can decide on which JPEG quality setting is the best compromise for you) * Strips out EXIF and other non-image data in the file in order to give you the minimum file size possible. * Gives you a fast web-version of your image without altering the original "Save for Web" allows you the option of embedding an ICC profile if you wish. I find it best to map images into sRGB colorspace before using "Save for Web". sRGB colorspace is designed to represent the gamut of a typical CRT monitor - in other words, it's designed so that images in sRGB colorspace will look pretty accurate on a typical monitor in non-colorspace-aware applications. I usually don't embed any ICC profile in my online images because a) it does add *slightly* to the file size and, b) there's only so much image accuracy I *want* in my "images-that-are-on-the-web-where-anyone-can-grab-them" ;-) I've arrived at my web image workflow through trial and error over a period of several years... so a lot of the images on my web site haven't benefited from some (or even most) of it. One of my projects for the between-semester break is to go through my web page and update as many of the images as I can. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 18:07, Glen wrote: > At 06:27 PM 12/19/2005, Rob Studdert wrote: > > >I still have a CS test page up on the web that I posted whe we were > >discussing > >this very same issue last April: > > > >http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/ICC_test.html > > > Interesting. How do we interpret the results of viewing that page. Should > all 4 images look the same, ideally? > > For me, the top two images have lower contrast and saturation. > > How would I know if my browser (Mozilla) implemented CS support? If your Browser were CS aware then the images with embedded CS data would render identically, and if your screen CS was similar to the sRGB CS then the sRGB image without an embedded CS would render close to the two images with embedded profiles. The ProPhoto RGB image (without profile) will never render correctly on any system (unless the native display CS were ProPhoto RGB, which is impossible) it will look drab, so if the ProPhoto RGB image (with embedded profile) looks similar then you can be assured that the browser isn't CS aware. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: MX-Qs
Figured out the self-timer problem. It was cocked. Tom said to press the little button to fire it off and BLAM-O, we're off to the races. Now, how to connect my AF200T (not the AF220 I mentioned earlier, I don't have one of those...) to the pc terminal... CW REALLY excited to have a new camera...not that I needed one. - Original Message - From: "cbwaters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: MX-Qs So after fitting new batteries in the MX I've found a couple things I'd like to ask other owners about. So anon to the internet! The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. Thanks, CW -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
At 06:27 PM 12/19/2005, Rob Studdert wrote: I still have a CS test page up on the web that I posted whe we were discussing this very same issue last April: http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/ICC_test.html Interesting. How do we interpret the results of viewing that page. Should all 4 images look the same, ideally? For me, the top two images have lower contrast and saturation. How would I know if my browser (Mozilla) implemented CS support? thanks, Glen
Re: GESO: A day out with the Optio 60
Gaurav Aggarwal wrote: Wonderful. Great composition. Some of them are too dark. I am viewing them from a monitor in my office-lab which may not be that good. I like Optio0041 a lot. A little closer crop might do well (remove the gucci and the top right corner). Gaurav On 12/18/05, Juan Buhler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Today I went out to try to do some street shooting with the Optio 60. This isn't what I bought it for, but I just wanted to see how much I could do with it. I put together a little flickr gallery of the most decent pics of the day: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jbuhler/sets/1610069/ All full frame, except I cropped them vertically to get to my preferred 3:2 aspect ratio. Shot in color, processed in the same way I process my istD images, with Petteri's PS actions. I uploaded the full res images, so they are available for those of you who want to check them out. Thanks for looking, j -- Juan Buhler http://www.jbuhler.com photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com I find them rather dark too. All of them, actually. Other than that, I think they are well-composed. Wondering, Juan, how you feel about the Optio's usefulness for this type of work, now that you've tried it. Yes, you've shown the results, but how did you find working with it?
Re: GESO: eyes wide open - learning to use the 15mm
Derby Chang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I find the 15mm/3.5 really hard to use. The first bird shot is great. Are you using the 15 mm on an analog or a digital camera? I've just done the first tests with mine on a *istDS and I like the results. Gives me about the same field of view I was used to get from the 21 mm Biometar on my Contarexes. Here's one from Liège, taken last Saturday: http://www.fotoralf.de/temp/sclessin.jpg The edges are a tad soft. Still wondering if this is due to the angle of the light hitting the sensor. Oh, and... by all means do persist. :-) Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany private homepage: http://www.fotoralf.de manual cameras and photo galleries - updated Jan. 10, 2005 Contarex - Kiev 60 - Horizon 202 - P6 mount lenses
RE: MX-Qs
I agree with Mat, the self timer fails when the lube on the timing gears gets sticky, very common. The flash failure is usually a dirty contact inside, try the PC contact and see if that works. I can probably fix both for around $35.00 if you want to ship it to Iowa. Don > -Original Message- > From: Mat Maessen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:28 PM > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: Re: MX-Qs > > > On 12/19/05, cbwaters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected > inside. It works > > the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? > > One of my MXen is like that. It's also the one with the intermittent > meter. I'm sure a CLA would fix both problems, but my particular > example isn't worth that. Yours may be. > > Isn't there someone down that way who works on Pentaxen? I remember > vaguely seeing a recommendation a while back... > > -Mat >
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 17:24, graywolf wrote: > If I was going to send jpegs out to be printed I would save them > specifically for that printer. On my printer I use 16 bit .psd files to > print from. The printer driver converts to 8 bit and the printers color > space. To me a jpeg is a final image, just like a print, I do nothing > more with it, period. I keep wondering why folks want to make more > needless work for themselves? Nothing else to do with their time? One place I have prints made will only accept JPG files in sRGB colour space, fortunately their equipment is well calibrated and the prints come back just fine up to 30x45cm. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On Dec 19, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: On 19 Dec 2005 at 12:27, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: I have to disagree on that last point. I did extensive testing with several other folks participating on the Picture A Week mailing list last year ... Testing with several browsers on both Windows XP and Mac OS X, color rendering of an sRGB image was much more consistent with an embedded sRGB profile, regardless of whether the browsers themselves honored profiles. (On Mac OS X, both the Safari and Internet Explorer browsers honor profiles. Safari in particular does a very high quality job of rendering JPEG images accurately.) Show me a colour space aware Windows Browser and I'll be a happy man. Can't help you there, I don't use Windows and don't track Windows software. But, as I said, embedding a profile seems to help rendering consistency in Win XP browsers regardless of whether the browser honors profiles or not. I can't explain it, I only report what the testing showed. Godfrey
Re: MX-Qs
On 12/19/05, cbwaters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works > the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? One of my MXen is like that. It's also the one with the intermittent meter. I'm sure a CLA would fix both problems, but my particular example isn't worth that. Yours may be. Isn't there someone down that way who works on Pentaxen? I remember vaguely seeing a recommendation a while back... -Mat
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 17:12, graywolf wrote: > I believe that most of them assume sRGB. I think you'll find that most of them simply don't care, web authors assume that the average desk-top calibration is a reasonable approximation of sRGB, I don't believe that any Windows browsers actually re-map colours, they just provide a linear output to the screen. (not any that I've tested on multiple Windows platforms anyhow). I still have a CS test page up on the web that I posted whe we were discussing this very same issue last April: http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/ICC_test.html Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: MX-Qs
Selftimer: Should move away from the mirror box to set. You push the little chrome button that is hidden until you move the lever to start the timer. It does not tick but gives off a steady buz until the shutter trips. Nope it should not be flopping around. The self timer lever flops around freely once it is wound. Pressing the little button and it will then sit tight after it unwinds. Musta gotten lucky: mine fires the flash without any problems. Godfrey
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
If I was going to send jpegs out to be printed I would save them specifically for that printer. On my printer I use 16 bit .psd files to print from. The printer driver converts to 8 bit and the printers color space. To me a jpeg is a final image, just like a print, I do nothing more with it, period. I keep wondering why folks want to make more needless work for themselves? Nothing else to do with their time? Marnie, you asked what 'save for web' does. As I understand it, it strips all extraneous information from the file and converts it to a 72 bpi, 8 bit, sRGB image file then saves at the compression settings you have set, or the default ones if you have not set them yourself. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/19/2005 12:09:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I save full-rez as I also use the JPEG for printing. Save for Web won't handle that. -Adam Hmmm, good pt. I sometimes print from JPEG. So what does Save for Web do exactly? As constrasted to just saving as a JPEG? I know someone mentioned one thing, but what are the other things? Excuse me, not very articulate -- tired -- just got through cooking 3 varieties of cookies, about 4 dozen each variety, as Xmas gifts four our neighbors. I am seriously thinking of skipping this next year. Maybe skipping Xmas entirely. Maybe finding some place to go that has never heard of Xmas. TIA, Marnie ;-)
Re: GESO: A day out with the Optio 60
Hi Godfrey, Flickr doesn't seem to be doing anything to the images. I downloaded one of the high res files, and did a difference with the original uploaded one in PS--no values higher than zero anywhere in the frame. What makes for the lower quality is--I think--the combination of 200iso noise and jpeg compression. I could probably make them look a bit better by using noise ninja and adding some fake film grain. Maybe I'll do that if I decide to print any of them. Thanks for the comment, j On 12/19/05, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wonderful photographs as always, Juan. > > I have to say, though, that the imaging quality when I look at the > full-rez versions is somewhat disappointing. Has the flickr.com site > done any processing beyond what you posted to it? > > Godfrey > > > On Dec 18, 2005, at 7:49 PM, Juan Buhler wrote: > > > Today I went out to try to do some street shooting with the Optio 60. > > This isn't what I bought it for, but I just wanted to see how much > > I could do with it. > > > > I put together a little flickr gallery of the most decent pics of > > the day: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jbuhler/sets/1610069/ > > > > All full frame, except I cropped them vertically to get to my > > preferred 3:2 aspect ratio. Shot in color, processed in the same way I > > process my istD images, with Petteri's PS actions. > > > > I uploaded the full res images, so they are available for those of you > > who want to check them out. > > -- Juan Buhler http://www.jbuhler.com photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/19/2005 12:09:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I save full-rez as I also use the JPEG for printing. Save for Web won't handle that. -Adam Hmmm, good pt. I sometimes print from JPEG. So what does Save for Web do exactly? As constrasted to just saving as a JPEG? I know someone mentioned one thing, but what are the other things? Excuse me, not very articulate -- tired -- just got through cooking 3 varieties of cookies, about 4 dozen each variety, as Xmas gifts four our neighbors. I am seriously thinking of skipping this next year. Maybe skipping Xmas entirely. Maybe finding some place to go that has never heard of Xmas. TIA, Marnie ;-) Or, you could spend Christmas somewhere that they do have it, but your neighbours aren't there, so you don't need to make them cookies.
Re: GESO: A day out with the Optio 60
Wonderful. Great composition. Some of them are too dark. I am viewing them from a monitor in my office-lab which may not be that good. I like Optio0041 a lot. A little closer crop might do well (remove the gucci and the top right corner). Gaurav On 12/18/05, Juan Buhler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Today I went out to try to do some street shooting with the Optio 60. > This isn't what I > bought it for, but I just wanted to see how much I could do with it. > > I put together a little flickr gallery of the most decent pics of the day: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jbuhler/sets/1610069/ > > All full frame, except I cropped them vertically to get to my > preferred 3:2 aspect ratio. Shot in color, processed in the same way I > process my istD images, with Petteri's PS actions. > > I uploaded the full res images, so they are available for those of you > who want to check them out. > > Thanks for looking, > > j > > -- > Juan Buhler > http://www.jbuhler.com > photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com > >
RE: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another
Found it: http://www.oswaldgallery.com/s.nl;jsessionid=ac112b1c1f43989d29966323430cb11 6a20bff4326bf.e3eTaxePaNqNe34Nch0Qa3uNchf0n6jAmljGr5XDqQLvpAe?sc=2&category= 37&it=A&id=1843 http://tinyurl.com/bmhbx Harold Evans said it looks as though M. Plantevigne has just goosed the nearer woman. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: Bruce Dayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 19 December 2005 21:13 > To: Bob W > Subject: Re: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another > > Thanks Bob. If you find the link, I would love to take a look. > > -- > Best regards, > Bruce > > > Monday, December 19, 2005, 12:20:10 AM, you wrote: > > BW> Very good - it immediately put me in mind of Lartigue's > photo of an > BW> Edwardian family walking along a beach. Unfortunately I > can't find a link, > BW> but the poses and way of walking seem very similar. > > BW> -- > BW> Cheers, > BW> Bob > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Bruce Dayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: 19 December 2005 05:28 > >> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > >> Subject: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another > >> > >> I found it almost comical how these big birds were seemingly > >> herding around these little birds. Almost like they were > >> taking them out for a walk. > >> > >> Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld > >> ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/8.0, Manual mode, Center weighted > >> metering Converted from Raw using Capture One LE Cropped for > >> presentation > >> > >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkd_2416a.htm > >> > >> Comments welcome > >> > >> - > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
I believe that most of them assume sRGB. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Rob Studdert wrote: I have to disagree on that last point. I did extensive testing with several other folks participating on the Picture A Week mailing list last year ... Testing with several browsers on both Windows XP and Mac OS X, color rendering of an sRGB image was much more consistent with an embedded sRGB profile, regardless of whether the browsers themselves honored profiles. (On Mac OS X, both the Safari and Internet Explorer browsers honor profiles. Safari in particular does a very high quality job of rendering JPEG images accurately.) Show me a colour space aware Windows Browser and I'll be a happy man. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: MX-Qs
Golly, I must be getting old, I had to run upstairs and get one of my cameras to answer your questions. Selftimer: Should move away from the mirror box to set. You push the little chrome button that is hidden until you move the lever to start the timer. It does not tick but gives off a steady buz until the shutter trips. Nope it should not be flopping around. Flash: Nothing to over look. You just put it in the shoe and when the shutter trips the flash should fire (provided of course that the flash is turned on and nothing is wrong with it). The hot shoe has tiny wires connecting it to the sync terminals sometimes they have a bad connection or get broken. It is an easy fix. On the other hand sometimes the sync switch goes bad. The way to check for that is to see if a flash will fire if connected to the pc flash terminals on the body. If they work it is the connection to the hot shoe that is bad, if neither work it is most likely the switch. With either of those problems you have the choice of trying to have them fixed, or just using high speed film and enjoying the camera. An MX with a fast lens and fast film is a joy to use so you are not out much if those are the only problems with the cameras graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- cbwaters wrote: So after fitting new batteries in the MX I've found a couple things I'd like to ask other owners about. So anon to the internet! The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. Thanks, CW
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
The reason I don't save the downsized .psd is because I do not want it overwriting the fullsize image. If I need another small image I go through the whole 2 minute process again. I always keep the full res 16 bit .psd file. I usually delete the web image from my local computer, sometimes I leave them on my webserver, I still have plenty of room available at both sites. Good practice however would be to delete obsolete images on the webservers. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Adam Maas wrote: I save full-rez as I also use the JPEG for printing. Save for Web won't handle that. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed -Adam graywolf wrote: If you use "save for web" your don't have to do a separate conversion, it will save your 16 bit .psd as an 8 bit jpeg. I just do a "bicubic sharper" downsize, and "save for web", then delete the downsized .psd image without saving. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Adam Maas wrote: I never work in any other mode than 16 bit, it preserves data and prevents 'hstogram jaggies' that cause posterization. I convert to 8 bit as the last step before saving the final jpeg. -Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the last set of Mom hands I showed (where most liked them, not her hand and mine, the one where I asked if the thumb was too light), someone sent me a variation that I liked. He said he used 16 bit to get more subtle variation in tones. I notice when one imports a RAW into PS one can import it as 16 bit. So I am wondering how many of you do that? Specifically when making a B&W conversion. But also with color. Does it make a difference if you later save it as a JPEG (8-bit)? Can you get sublter tonal values for B&W? (And maybe subtler color ranges for color?) Or is it all lost again when one saves it later as an 8-bit? Probably someone has asked this before, I vaguely remember that they have. But I wasn't paying attention then. :-) TIA, Marnie
Re: GESO: eyes wide open - learning to use the 15mm
Godfrey you also have the Zenitar 16mm fisheye don't you? I would really like to see a nice identical WA shot with some detail in the corners taken with the Zenitar and the DA14mm on the DS. I'm sure you have nothing better to do at this time of year. :) Powell >There's no denying that making good compositions with ultra-wide >lenses is difficult work. After a year or more of using a 15mm lens >with my Leica cameras, I decided that 110+ degree diagonal FoV was >simply too much. About 90 degree diagonal is a much more useable. On >35mm cameras, I stepped back to 20-21mm; on the Pentax *ist DS, the >14mm is my ideal for ultrawide, like with this photo of Arundel >Castle in the UK: > > http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/large/37O-half.jpg >Pentax *ist DS + DA14mm f/2.8 -- ISO 200 @ f/11 @ 1/250 sec, Av mode > >Godfrey >
Re: MX-Qs
cbwaters wrote: My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. Thanks, CW The flash not working seems to be a problem with MXen as they age. Of the 4 I had, only one had a working hot shoe. -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net
Re: MX-Qs
cbwaters wrote: So after fitting new batteries in the MX I've found a couple things I'd like to ask other owners about. So anon to the internet! The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. Thanks, CW The flash not working is a common problem with the MX. Of the 4 that I owned only one had a working hot shoe. -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
On 19 Dec 2005 at 12:27, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: > I have to disagree on that last point. I did extensive testing with > several other folks participating on the Picture A Week mailing list > last year ... Testing with several browsers on both Windows XP and > Mac OS X, color rendering of an sRGB image was much more consistent > with an embedded sRGB profile, regardless of whether the browsers > themselves honored profiles. > > (On Mac OS X, both the Safari and Internet Explorer browsers honor > profiles. Safari in particular does a very high quality job of > rendering JPEG images accurately.) Show me a colour space aware Windows Browser and I'll be a happy man. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Stacking lenses for macro.
On 19 Dec 2005 at 15:34, Jostein wrote: > Thanks Rob, > According to John Shaw, two macro lenses don't stack well together. Though I > doubt he has tried Pentax optics, I think I will explore other options first. I use TCs and tubes behind my macros for extra mag, I gave up using reversed lenses years ago, it's just far too clumsy and undertaking especially in the field. I am surprised by the John Shaw comment though, I would have assumed that low distortion lenses would give better results particularly in the case of CA and spherically induced coma etc. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
MX-Qs
So after fitting new batteries in the MX I've found a couple things I'd like to ask other owners about. So anon to the internet! The self timer lever is just limp like it's not connected inside. It works the DOF-P but no tick tick tick... Common failure? My flash doesn't. I have an AF220 mounted and no amount of fiddling gets it to fire. FWIW, the shoe looks like it's never been used. The camera's so simple I can't imagine I've overlooked something. But then, I can be pretty obtuse. Or so says my wife. Thanks, CW
Re: Stacking lenses for macro.
On 19 Dec 2005 at 13:56, Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: > Interesting statement, can I just confirm that you are of the opinion > that the A50/2.8 is sharp wide open? I would have guessed that it > would be designed to work stopped down (*very* stopped down :-). Determined by myself using empirical means. On the *ist D the A50/2.8 macro displays very little deviation in resolution across the aperture range but it does perform poorest at f22. > Any related comments on the K50/4 then? Never had the pleasure. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: PESO - Fractal Frost
I've wondered about the meaning, also. I await the answer. Jack --- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Looks cold and white on my monitor, how'd you get that polar bear to > stay > >so still in the blizzard? > > I assume you're referring to the fact that it was taken with a macro > and > therefore this could be a closeup as opposed to telephoto shot? > > Or is it that you think I got knocked on my can and that was the > noment of > inspiration? > > Tom C. > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PESO - Fractal Frost
From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Looks cold and white on my monitor, how'd you get that polar bear to stay so still in the blizzard? I assume you're referring to the fact that it was taken with a macro and therefore this could be a closeup as opposed to telephoto shot? Or is it that you think I got knocked on my can and that was the noment of inspiration? Tom C.
Re: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another
It was taken at the public beach next to the Monterey harbor. -- Bruce Monday, December 19, 2005, 7:03:55 AM, you wrote: DJM> Nice Shot! DJM> By any chance, was it taken at Portmeirion (the Village)?
Re: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another
I'll take a look at that. I already did crop out some annoying foreground seaweed and a bit of sky above the wave. Perhaps I was not aggressive enough - thanks for the suggestion. -- Bruce Monday, December 19, 2005, 6:53:45 AM, you wrote: KW> Bruce, if this were mine, I'd make it into a mini panorama by KW> cropping out the white alont the top edge. The wave crest @ the KW> top is a detraction to me. KW> Kenneth Waller KW> -Original Message- >>From: Bruce Dayton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another >> >>I found it almost comical how these big birds were seemingly herding >>around these little birds. Almost like they were taking them out for >>a walk. >> >>Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld >>ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/8.0, Manual mode, Center weighted metering >>Converted from Raw using Capture One LE >>Cropped for presentation >> >>http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkd_2416a.htm >> >>Comments welcome >> >>- >>Bruce >> KW> KW> PeoplePC Online KW> A better way to Internet KW> http://www.peoplepc.com
Re: OT: Photoshop B&W Converson Tones
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/19/2005 12:09:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I save full-rez as I also use the JPEG for printing. Save for Web won't handle that. -Adam Hmmm, good pt. I sometimes print from JPEG. So what does Save for Web do exactly? As constrasted to just saving as a JPEG? I know someone mentioned one thing, but what are the other things? Excuse me, not very articulate -- tired -- just got through cooking 3 varieties of cookies, about 4 dozen each variety, as Xmas gifts four our neighbors. I am seriously thinking of skipping this next year. Maybe skipping Xmas entirely. Maybe finding some place to go that has never heard of Xmas. TIA, Marnie ;-) Save for Web gives far more control over JPEG options and also does an automatic conversion to 8 bit. However it limits max resolution and arbitrarily tags the image with sRGB (it doesn't actually do a conversion). The size issue is biggest for me, since 3008x2000 (default resolution of the *ist DSLR's) is larger than the limit and my scans from film are even larger. -Adam
Re: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another
Hello Glen, Thanks for the comments. It is published in my PESO gallery . We'll have to see if anyone else likes it. -- Bruce Sunday, December 18, 2005, 9:35:23 PM, you wrote: G> That's a really nice shot! It looks just like you said. :) G> I think it should be published somewhere. G> take care, G> Glen G> At 12:27 AM 12/19/2005, Bruce Dayton wrote: >>I found it almost comical how these big birds were seemingly herding >>around these little birds. Almost like they were taking them out for >>a walk. >> >>Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld >>ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/8.0, Manual mode, Center weighted metering >>Converted from Raw using Capture One LE >>Cropped for presentation >> >>http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkd_2416a.htm >> >>Comments welcome >> >>- >>Bruce
Re: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another
Thanks Bob. If you find the link, I would love to take a look. -- Best regards, Bruce Monday, December 19, 2005, 12:20:10 AM, you wrote: BW> Very good - it immediately put me in mind of Lartigue's photo of an BW> Edwardian family walking along a beach. Unfortunately I can't find a link, BW> but the poses and way of walking seem very similar. BW> -- BW> Cheers, BW> Bob >> -Original Message- >> From: Bruce Dayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: 19 December 2005 05:28 >> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net >> Subject: PESO - Six of one, half a dozen of another >> >> I found it almost comical how these big birds were seemingly >> herding around these little birds. Almost like they were >> taking them out for a walk. >> >> Pentax *istD, A 70-210/4, handheld >> ISO 200, 1/1000 sec @ f/8.0, Manual mode, Center weighted >> metering Converted from Raw using Capture One LE Cropped for >> presentation >> >> http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkd_2416a.htm >> >> Comments welcome >> >> - >> Bruce >> >> >>
Re: PAW - "Poppy"
On Dec 19, 2005, at 12:27 AM, David Mann wrote: http://www.bluemoon.net.nz/photo/printsdb/view.php?p=166&t=1 Very nice, almost an abstract. Godfrey
