Re: Scary Condoleezza Eyes

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 1/10/2006 9:58:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
She actually looks evil enough to me in the original...

j

On 1/10/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47066
>
> Journalism at its best ...
>
>
> Shel
===
Ditto. I think whoever did it didn't do it because of race but because of 
politics.

Rather interesting that a lot didn't notice it. Makes one wonder...

Marnie aka Doe 

Re: OT: Need Computer Help

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 1/10/2006 8:53:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Windows XP, of course.

I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port. It has 
served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot access 
it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot access 
anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work either. 
Windows just won't access it.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Joe
===
Reinstall the driver, of course. It is possible to roll back the driver too. 
Sometimes.

Do this with your device plugged in...

My Computer/right click for Properties/Hardware tab/Device Manager/go down 
tree and click the plus sign to expand tree to get to your specific 
device/right 
click on the device for Properties/Driver Tab/Roll Back Driver

Or you can check out Driver Details or Update Driver. To update/reinstall 
driver, usually you need a disc -- usually the driver came with the product on 
a 
disc.

If that doesn't work, then it might be your USB port, but probably not if it 
recognizes something is plugged in.

HTH, Marnie 

RE: Who's shooting professionally with Pentax

[Jens Bladt]

I am - well I'm not a professional, but
I do studio portraits professionally with my *ist D and a FA 1.4/50mm.
As well as other photographs; for personel galleries (corporate web sites)
and screensaver photographs (postcards) from time to time.
Regards

Jens Bladt
http://www.jensbladt.dk

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Godfrey DiGiorgi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 10. januar 2006 17:26
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: Who's shooting professionally with Pentax


On Dec 13, 2005, at 5:16 PM, Scott Loveless wrote:
> Shel's question got me thinking about all the "pros" I see with Canon
> and Nikon hardware.  Who's using their Pentax gear to make a buck or
> two, what gear are you using, are you using film or digital or both,
> and what kind of jobs are you doing?

Hmm, didn't see this thread until now.

I am engaged in the nebulous endeavor of "art photography", which
will hopefully soon start generating income (now six projects in
progress, two very close to "ready for promotion" and looking for a
gallery date, three editors have been showing interest, etc... :-). I
occasionally take on client assignments in portraiture and
illustration as well.

My standard camera is now a Pentax *ist DS, although I also have
Canon 10D, Konica Minolta A2, and Panasonic LX1 cameras at my disposal.

All my picture taking in the past 3-4 years has been with digital
capture, although I'm integrating some film work dating from as far
back as the previous decade where appropriate. Output at present is
prints, up to A3 Super, with the Epson R2400.

Godfrey

Pentax istDS Manufacturer

[Shel Belinkoff]

While cruising the web looking for another istDS or a DS2, I came across
this site

http://tinyurl.com/d43q5



Note the manufacturer ... 


Shel

Re: Scary Condoleezza Eyes

[Juan Buhler]

She actually looks evil enough to me in the original...

j

On 1/10/06, Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47066
>
> Journalism at its best ...
>
>
> Shel
>
>
>
>


--
Juan Buhler
http://www.jbuhler.com
photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[David Mann]

On Jan 11, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Juan Buhler wrote:


The moment I got my first Mac was the moment I stopped thinking about
"the computer" and started thinking only about the work I do with it.


I noticed exactly the same thing.

- Dave

RE: PESO (and a reminder): Men of the Mountain

[Sandra Hermann]

I would love to do that again... Can you all buy some dodge Rams so i can go 
back to work?  Make sure you buy the ones made in St. Louis though.




From: frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: PDML 
Subject: PESO (and a reminder): Men of the Mountain
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:55:24 -0500

A reminder that registration for GFM NPW is only a couple of weeks
away, and that it's going to fill up fast.

Left to right:  Tom Rittenhouse aka Greywolf, Cesar, Bill Robb aka
Wheatfield, Nico and part of Mark Roberts:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4015749&size=lg

Don't let these guys scare you - you should come anyway .

cheers,
frank
--
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

Scary Condoleezza Eyes

[Shel Belinkoff]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47066

Journalism at its best ...


Shel

Re: PESO: Misty

[derbyc]

Shar-peis? They are the most congenial dogs. Very affectionate


Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Subject: Re: PESO: Misty
> 
> 
> 
> > My two dogs are called Cocoa (dark black/brown shar-pei), and Baileys 
> > (coffee
> > coloured shar-pei). As it turns out Baileys has a taste for alcohol, while
> 
> > Cocoa
> > doesn't touch the stuff. Nominative determinism.
> 
> How are they as pets? I haven't had much to do with them.
> 
> William Robb 
> 
> 

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[David Mann]

On Jan 11, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Tom C wrote:

It gets worse when the accusing party is an arm of the government,  
the same government of which   the judicial branch is an arm, and  
the judge knows the accusing party on a regular first name basis.


This is a long-ish read... but probably not surprising for anyone  
who's dealt with tax departments :)

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/daily/2003/1201.shtml

- Dave

Re: OT: Need Computer Help

[Paul Sorenson]

Many of the USB flash drives have a tiny write protect switch on them - 
you can see the contents in Windows Explorer, but can't access them.  If 
this drive has one, try setting the switch in the opposite position.


-P

Joseph Tainter wrote:

Windows XP, of course.

I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port. It has 
served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot access 
it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot access 
anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work either. 
Windows just won't access it.


Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Joe

Re: PESO: Misty

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" 
Subject: Re: PESO: Misty





it rings a little odd when I shout "Dot.Come!".


Things you can say to your dog that you can't say to your wife..

William Robb

Re: PESO: Misty

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Re: PESO: Misty



My two dogs are called Cocoa (dark black/brown shar-pei), and Baileys 
(coffee
coloured shar-pei). As it turns out Baileys has a taste for alcohol, while 
Cocoa

doesn't touch the stuff. Nominative determinism.


How are they as pets? I haven't had much to do with them.

William Robb 

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[David Savage]

It's probably a sub menu under "Ideas"

Dave

On 1/11/06, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't see the switch to auto compose...
>
> When you're worried or in doubt,
> Run in circles, (scream and shout).
>
>

Re: OT: Need Computer Help

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Jan 10, 2006, at 9:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Windows XP, of course.

I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port.  
It has
served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot  
access

it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot access
anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work either.
Windows just won't access it.


XP is sometimes not very clever at (re)naming the drive letters of  
removable
drives. Could your memory thing be conflicting with another drive  
letter? If it
is, you have to go into the Computer Management applet and change  
the drive

letters manually.

(I hope the mac-heads aren't listening to this :)


They don't need to.

G

Re: PESO: Misty

[Tom C]

My two are both black and white.  Dot is a Blue Heeler and Dash is a Border 
Collie.


it rings a little odd when I shout "Dot.Come!".

Tom C.





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: PESO: Misty
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:10:35 +0800

Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tom C"
> Subject: Re: PESO: Misty
>
>
> > I'm even naming my next dog William!
>
> I'm trying to think of good dog names again.
> I suspect I'll be hound seeking in a couple of years.
>
> William Robb
>



My two dogs are called Cocoa (dark black/brown shar-pei), and Baileys 
(coffee
coloured shar-pei). As it turns out Baileys has a taste for alcohol, while 
Cocoa

doesn't touch the stuff. Nominative determinism.

Derby

RE: OT: Need Computer Help

[Shel Belinkoff]

Joe, let's start at the beginning.  What's a "memory thing?"

Depending on what you're talking about, I may have some suggestions.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Joseph Tainter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Date: 1/10/2006 8:54:11 PM
> Subject: OT: Need Computer Help
>
> Windows XP, of course.
>
> I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port. It has 
> served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot access 
> it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot access 
> anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work either. 
> Windows just won't access it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe

Re: PESO: New Dodge Challenger (My Poor Pony)

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Sorry to hear of your car and computer troubles, John.

The new Challenger looks neat (nice pix, Paul), just like the current  
Mustangs, but I was never really much of a fan of "pony cars". I'm  
not looking to buy a new car anytime soon, but if I were the new  
Pontiac Solstice is more my speed.


Godfrey

Re: OT: Need Computer Help

[P. J. Alling]

Try it on another computer.  It could simply have failed.  They do 
occasionally.


Joseph Tainter wrote:


Windows XP, of course.

I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port. It 
has served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot 
access it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot 
access anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work 
either. Windows just won't access it.


Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Joe





--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[Shel Belinkoff]

Drive by "shouting."  I love it ... ;-))

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: William Robb

> I anticipate a drive by shouting or two at the Toronto camera stores.

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Scott Loveless]

The first time I used a Mac was in '91 or '92.  I couldn't figure out
how to get my floppy disk out of the drive.  I didn't touch one again
for over 10 years.

On 1/10/06, Juan Buhler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 1/10/06, John Forbes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes Macphilia approaches religious fervour, with an equally rational
> > basis! :-)
>
> Except that we can touch and perceive the object of our worship.
>
> The moment I got my first Mac was the moment I stopped thinking about
> "the computer" and started thinking only about the work I do with it.
>
> j
>
> --
> Juan Buhler
> http://www.jbuhler.com
> photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com
>
>


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[Tom C]

LOL Steve...

Tom C.





From: Scott Loveless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: The ultimate Canon.
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:42:22 -0500

This is a big fat load of crap.  All my lenses require tonic.  I can't
use a camera without tonic.  My old cameras had tonic.  Where the hell
is the tonic button?  I'm writing them a nasty email.  And starting a
petition.  I'll switch.  You wait and see.


On 1/10/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Loveless"
> Subject: Re: The ultimate Canon.
>
>
> > They left off the tonic button.  Why the hell would I want a camera
> > without a tonic button?  Who designed this thing?  Marketing?  Jebus!
> > I'm switching to Nikon.
>
> They left off the Single Malt switch as well.
> It's not perfect, but it's the best there is.
>


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[Shel Belinkoff]

Which Spock would you call - Mr. or Dr?

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Marnie aka Doe  Wouldn't mind having a call Spock, though. ;-)

Re: PESO: Misty

[derbyc]

Quoting William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tom C" 
> Subject: Re: PESO: Misty
> 
> 
> > I'm even naming my next dog William!
> 
> I'm trying to think of good dog names again.
> I suspect I'll be hound seeking in a couple of years.
> 
> William Robb
> 



My two dogs are called Cocoa (dark black/brown shar-pei), and Baileys (coffee
coloured shar-pei). As it turns out Baileys has a taste for alcohol, while Cocoa
doesn't touch the stuff. Nominative determinism.

Derby

Re: OT: Need Computer Help

[derbyc]

Quoting Joseph Tainter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Windows XP, of course.
> 
> I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port. It has 
> served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot access 
> it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot access 
> anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work either. 
> Windows just won't access it.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joe
> 


XP is sometimes not very clever at (re)naming the drive letters of removable
drives. Could your memory thing be conflicting with another drive letter? If it
is, you have to go into the Computer Management applet and change the drive
letters manually.

(I hope the mac-heads aren't listening to this :)

D

Re: Need Computer Help

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Joseph Tainter" 
Subject: OT: Need Computer Help




Windows XP, of course.

I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port. It has 
served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot access 
it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot access 
anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work either. 
Windows just won't access it.


Any thoughts?


Security or sharing settings?

William Robb

Re: Oxford Pesos

[Joseph Tainter]

Hogwarts Hall:

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/848/display/4741079

Henry VIII is at the top rear center, rather dim.

Guarding history, languidly:

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/4741082

That's all I have time to process now. Tomorrow it's back to Phoenix.

Joe
===
Cool. I've been wondering where that was - Hogwarts that is. I thought it
looked real. I suppose some of the corridors were in Oxford also.

Thanks for sharing it.

Did you get to go on the Inspector Morse tour?

Marnie aka Doe  An admitted fan. I have all of Morse on DVD.

--

Thanks, Marnie. No, in the end I took an Oxford University tour rather 
than Inspector Morse. The Morse tour does scenes-of-crimes and the like. 
That would have been fun, but with limited time it was more important 
for me to see some historic architecture. Next time.


Joe

OT: Need Computer Help

[Joseph Tainter]

Windows XP, of course.

I have a Memorex 512 mb memory thing that plugs into a USB port. It has 
served me well for some time. Tonight, all of a sudden, I cannot access 
it. Windows' filing system shows it as a drive, but I cannot access 
anything on it. I tried to format it, but that didn't work either. 
Windows just won't access it.


Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Joe

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Loveless" 
Subject: Re: The ultimate Canon.




This is a big fat load of crap.  All my lenses require tonic.  I can't
use a camera without tonic.  My old cameras had tonic.  Where the hell
is the tonic button?  I'm writing them a nasty email.  And starting a
petition.  I'll switch.  You wait and see.


I anticipate a drive by shouting or two at the Toronto camera stores.

William Robb

Re: PESO: New Dodge Challenger (My Poor Pony)

[John Celio]

I first saw pics of the new Challenger concept on saturday and immediately 
fell in love.  It looks incredibly similar to my 1968 Mustang.


Here are some more photos of the Challenger, for those who might be 
interested:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/01/07/detroit-2006-dodge-challenger-concept-unveiled/

Of course, the Challenger being a concept, if it sees production it won't be 
for a few years, and so won't help me replace my Mustang any time soon:

Before:
http://www.neovenator.com/cars/mustang/images/10-20_04.jpg
After:
http://www.neovenator.com/special/sadstang.jpg

$9,600.00 to fix all that.  I'm *still* in shock.  Every time I walk past my 
car, I become very sad.  This is partly due to having to ride my f-ing 
bicycle everywhere for the past three weeks.  In the rain.  Ugh.


The worst part is, the kid who hit me was uninsured, but I didn't find out 
till weeks after the accident (it's a very long story, you don't want to 
hear it).  His father offered to pay for the repairs a while back, so I'm 
going to try see if he'll still do that.


Anyway, as of yesterday I've finally gotten my laptop back to where it was 
before the catastrophic hard drive failure.  Hopefully now I'll be able to 
keep up with the PDML.


John Celio

--

http://www.neovenator.com

AIM: Neopifex

"Hey, I'm an artist.  I can do whatever I want and pretend I'm making a 
statement." 

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

Yes, the word was there for a reason.

Jack

--- "E.R.N. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> William Robb wrote:
> 
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "Jack Davis" Subject: RE:
> Vigilant 
> > or Bloody Minded
> >
> >
> >> You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
> >> sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
> >> Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion
> would be
> >> hopeless.
> >
> >
> >
> > You've never heard of the "3 strikes" laws? 
> 
> That would remove "simply" from the situation.
> 
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

Referenced that in a reply to Shel.

Jack

--- William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jack Davis" 
> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> 
> 
> > You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
> > sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
> > Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would
> be
> > hopeless.
> 
> 
> You've never heard of the "3 strikes" laws?
> 
> William Robb
> 
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[Scott Loveless]

This is a big fat load of crap.  All my lenses require tonic.  I can't
use a camera without tonic.  My old cameras had tonic.  Where the hell
is the tonic button?  I'm writing them a nasty email.  And starting a
petition.  I'll switch.  You wait and see.


On 1/10/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Loveless"
> Subject: Re: The ultimate Canon.
>
>
> > They left off the tonic button.  Why the hell would I want a camera
> > without a tonic button?  Who designed this thing?  Marketing?  Jebus!
> > I'm switching to Nikon.
>
> They left off the Single Malt switch as well.
> It's not perfect, but it's the best there is.
>


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

Re: PESO: Misty

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" 
Subject: Re: PESO: Misty




I'm even naming my next dog William!


I'm trying to think of good dog names again.
I suspect I'll be hound seeking in a couple of years.

William Robb

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

Judy speaks for me, boy. :-/

Jack

--- Rob Studdert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 10 Jan 2006 at 16:32, Jack Davis wrote:
> 
> > US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in
> the
> > world.
> 
> Yeah, Judge Judy airs here too. ;-)
> 
> 
> Rob Studdert
> HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
> Tel +61-2-9554-4110
> UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
> Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
> 
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Loveless" 
Subject: Re: The ultimate Canon.




They left off the tonic button.  Why the hell would I want a camera
without a tonic button?  Who designed this thing?  Marketing?  Jebus! 
I'm switching to Nikon.


They left off the Single Malt switch as well.
It's not perfect, but it's the best there is.

William Robb

Re: Oxford Pesos

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 1/10/2006 8:08:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hogwarts Hall:

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/848/display/4741079

Henry VIII is at the top rear center, rather dim.

Guarding history, languidly:

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/4741082

That's all I have time to process now. Tomorrow it's back to Phoenix.

Joe
===
Cool. I've been wondering where that was - Hogwarts that is. I thought it 
looked real. I suppose some of the corridors were in Oxford also. 

Thanks for sharing it.

Did you get to go on the Inspector Morse tour?

Marnie aka Doe  An admitted fan. I have all of Morse on DVD. 

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

Even with the pool 'shrinkage'? Wow!

Jack

--- Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Nah, she was back at her window the next time. Must have seen
> something 
> she liked :-).
> On Jan 10, 2006, at 8:00 PM, Kenneth Waller wrote:
> 
> >> And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing
> to 
> >> hide.
> >> Paul
> >
> > Is that what your neighbor said?
> >
> > Sorry Paul I couldn't resist.
> >
> > Kenneth Waller
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >
> >
> >> Is that supposed to be news? Remember how the dems whined after
> 9/11 
> >> that the government had failed "to connect the dots?" Remember how
> 
> >> the loyal opposition complained that the administration hadn't
> done 
> >> enough to protect us against an attack? You can't have it both
> ways.
> >> And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing
> to 
> >> hide.
> >> Paul
> >> On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:28 PM, Bob Shell wrote:
> >>> Read below:
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:44 PM, E.R.N. Reed wrote:
> >>>
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Uh, there's no spy camera in my house. Checked just this
> morning. 
> > And the only time I ever caught my neighbor spying on me was
> when 
> > I went skinny dipping in the pool.
> > Paul
> >
> 
>  Same here, except for the pool part, since I don't have one.
> 
> 
> > -- Original message --
> > From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >> On Jan 10, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Tom C wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> In that case why not put spy cameras in everyone's homes so
> the  
> >>> government can watch?  Prevent the uncommitted crime from 
> >>> occurring.
> >>>
> >>> Encourage public schools to pry into personal matters.
> Encourage 
> >>>  school children to tell when their parents' personal views 
> >>> differ  from those popularly accepted. Encourage neighbor to
> spy 
> >>> upon  neighbor.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know about you, but that's not where I want to live.
> >>>
> >> We're already living there, I'm afraid.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Source: Raiders News Service
> >>>
> >>> http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story299.htm
> >>>
> >>> January 08, 2006
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The NSA Spy Engine: Echelon
> >>>
> >>> By Jason Leopold
> >>> t r u t h o u t - Investigative Report
> >>>
> >>> A clandestine National Security Agency spy program code-named
> >>> Echelon was likely responsible for tapping into the emails,
> >>> telephone calls and facsimiles of thousands of average American
> >>> citizens over the past four years in its effort to identify
> >>> people suspected of communicating with al-Qaeda terrorists,
> >>> according to half-a-dozen current and former intelligence
> >>> officials from the NSA and FBI.
> >>>
> >>> The existence of the program has been known for some time.
> >>> Echelon was developed in the 1970s primarily as an American-
> >>> British intelligence sharing system to monitor foreigners -
> >>> specifically, during the Cold War, to catch Soviet spies. But
> >>> sources said the spyware, operated by satellite, is the means by
> >>> which the NSA eavesdropped on Americans when President Bush
> >>> secretly authorized the agency to do so in 2002.
> >>>
> >>> Another top-secret program code-named Tempest, also operated by
> >>> satellite, is capable of reading computer monitors, cash
> >>> registers and automatic teller machines from as far away as a
> >>> half-mile and is being used to keep a close eye on an untold
> >>> number of American citizens, the sources said, pointing to a
> >>> little known declassified document that sheds light on the
> >>> program.
> >>>
> >>> Echelon has been shrouded in secrecy for years. A special report
> >>> prepared by the European Parliament in the late 1990s disclosed
> >>> explosive details about the covert program when it alleged that
> >>> Echelon was being used to spy on two foreign defense contractors
> >>> - the European companies Airbus Industrie and Thomson-CSF - as
> >>> well as sifting through private emails, industrial files and
> >>> cell phones of foreigners.
> >>>
> >>> The program is part of a multinational spy effort that includes
> >>> intelligence agencies in Canada, Britain, New Zealand and
> >>> Australia, also known as the Echelon Alliance, which is
> >>> responsible for monitoring different parts of the world.
> >>>
> >>> The NSA has never publicly admitted that Echelon exists, but the
> >>> program has been identified in declassified government
> >>> documents. Republican and Democratic lawmakers have long
> >>> criticized the program and have, in the past, engaged in fierce
> >>> debate with the intelligence community over Echelon because of
> >>> the ease with which it can spy on Americans without any
> >>> oversight from the federal governme

Re: PESO: Misty

[Tom C]

I'm even namimg my next dog William!

Tom C.





From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: Re: PESO: Misty
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 06:39:34 -0600


- Original Message - From: "David Mann" Subject: Re: PESO: Misty




You would be happier with a nice dog.


I'm really not a dog person...


Neither was I, until I got a dog.

William Robb

RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

Appears the sentence for that single crime would now be three years.
Per the article, as you know, the weight of his criminal record had to
have had a bearing, but you're right, of course, it was a gross
miscarriage of justice.
I don't want to start another thread branch, but I HOPE the patchwork
of states rights laws now enjoys a much greater degree of moral
oversight.
The "best in the world" remark is/was an oft repeated formula statement
that I couldn't resist reviving. No one knows less about the worlds
various legal systems than I. That I'm sure of.

Jack 
 


--- Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> According to the news item on CNN this fellow was convicted in South
> Carolina and was constantly refused parole until this past year. When
> interviewed and asked how it felt to be free he stated he would not
> feel
> free until he crossed the state line. I am going by the news as it
> was
> reported on CNN TV and on their web page. There was absolutely no
> mention of
> any other crimes and this was before the three strikes rule. It was
> in the
> news because it was an anomaly.
> 
> http://www.alternet.org/rights/24640/
> 
> I guess I was wrong on the time It was 35 years instead.
> 
> What assumption should I review? That CNN reported the facts wrong,
> that it
> occurred somewhere other than the USA or that I cannot understand
> what news
> I hear? Sorry but I am just repeating what was on US news.
> 
> As far as further rational discussion I was just questioning the
> statement
> that the US justice system is the best in the world and that sounded
> to me
> as an absolute, not question true fact. I think it is more an
> assumption.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: January 10, 2006 5:47 PM
> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> 
> 
> You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
> sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
> Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would
> be
> hopeless.
> 
> Jack
> 
> --- Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Is it?  I am wondering what this is based on. Is it statistically
> > better
> > than the one in Canada or New Zealand or Australia? I cannot
> > understand how
> > someone serving 23 years for stealing a black and white TV is a
> > justice
> > system.  I would think that most people in a "free" country would
> > trust
> > their own system over that of another country as normally only the
> > abnormal
> > results from another country's system makes international news.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: January 10, 2006 5:32 PM
> > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >
> >
> > US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in
> the
> > world.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > --- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> > > either
> > > way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system
> doesn't
> > > even
> > > try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
> > >
> > > Tom C wrote:
> > >
> > > > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the
> justice
> > > > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance
> of
> > > > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than
> by
> > a
> > > > judge, or any other single person.
> > > >
> > > > Tom C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > > >> To: 
> > > >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> > > >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> > > >>
> > > >> > -Original Message-
> > > >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put
> > his
> > > balls
> > > >> > >back on?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> > > >> > guilty.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> rriages.stm
> > > >>
> > > >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> > > >>
> > > >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bob
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > When you're worried or in doubt,
> > >   Run in circles, (scream and shout).
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date:
> > 05/01/2006
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail 

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 1/10/2006 8:06:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4506
7.0;id=25422;image

This could make me switch brands.
Pentax, are you watching?

William (WW) Robb

Hehehehehe.

A, come on, it's not quite that bad.

Marnie aka Doe  Wouldn't mind having a call Spock, though. ;-)

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[P. J. Alling]

I don't see the switch to auto compose...

William Robb wrote:

http://www.onlinephotographers.com/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=45067.0;id=25422;image 



This could make me switch brands.
Pentax, are you watching?

William (WW) Robb






--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: The ultimate Canon.

[Scott Loveless]

They left off the tonic button.  Why the hell would I want a camera
without a tonic button?  Who designed this thing?  Marketing?  Jebus! 
I'm switching to Nikon.

On 1/10/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.onlinephotographers.com/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=45067.0;id=25422;image
>
> This could make me switch brands.
> Pentax, are you watching?
>
> William (WW) Robb
>
>
>


--
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com

--
"You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman

RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

Yes, that occurred to me. If true, would clarify it as an aggregate
sentence based on more than one charge.

Jack

--- Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> There are people serving even longer sentences for similar crimes due
> the
> "three strikes" program.
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
> 
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Jack Davis 
> 
> > You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
> > sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
> > Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would
> be
> > hopeless.
> 
> 
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Oxford Pesos

[Joseph Tainter]

Hogwarts Hall:

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/cat/848/display/4741079

Henry VIII is at the top rear center, rather dim.

Guarding history, languidly:

http://www.fotocommunity.com/pc/pc/mypics/535671/display/4741082

That's all I have time to process now. Tomorrow it's back to Phoenix.

Joe

The ultimate Canon.

[William Robb]

http://www.onlinephotographers.com/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=45067.0;id=25422;image

This could make me switch brands.
Pentax, are you watching?

William (WW) Robb

Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gonz"

Subject: Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


Thanks.  I also found some sites that give you the chemistry to mix your 
own.  Sounds intriguing.  I wonder how hard it is to obtain the basic 
chemicals though, seems like post 9/11 even kids chemistry sets may 
trigger a red flag and a tap of your phone (just joking).  In the 60's & 
70's you could get a pretty decent chemistry set, and order all sorts of 
equipment and chemicals through a catalog.


Any online stores for obtaining B&W development reagents?


I'm sure there are.
There used to be a place in Montana, I think near Kalispell (Photographers 
Formulary comes to mind), and I had some dealings years ago with a place 
called Zone V or some such (not Fred Picker's Zone VI) that sold bulk 
chemistry.


William Robb 

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Tom C]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Just puzzling to me that people keep identifying with the innocent.


I would venture to say that none of us wants to see a guilty party go free. 
 Speaking for myself, I even more so, don't want to see an innocent party 
found guilty and punished.


The first case is most likely one of justice (or retribution) postponed.  
The second case is plain and simple injustice.


Tom C.



I would also venture to say that as horrific as pedophilia and child porn 
is, and as terrible as it may be that someone can commit such crimes and 
seemingly get away with it, it's even more horrific to consider that an 
innocent person could be falsely accused and punished for a crime they did 
not commit.


When that occurs NO ONE IS SAFE, and JUSTICE WAS STILL NOT SERVED.  Not to 
the child victim, not to the offender, and not to the innocent falsely 
accused party.


Tom C.

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[E.R.N. Reed]

William Robb wrote:



- Original Message - From: "Jack Davis" Subject: RE: Vigilant 
or Bloody Minded




You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
hopeless.




You've never heard of the "3 strikes" laws? 


That would remove "simply" from the situation.

Re: Adobe Lightroom free beta is here!

[E.R.N. Reed]

Gonz wrote:




Mark Roberts wrote:


"E.R.N. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Mark Roberts wrote:





I bet they wanted to call it "Light Box" but discovered that name is
taken already.



So was "Shadowlands," admittedly by a movie, but perhaps that was 
still the reason.




You can register the same trademark as someone else as long as it's not
for competing (or nearly competing) products.  
 



It sometimes depends on the value of the original trademark.  The 
trademark "Jaws" from the movie was so valuable that the courts 
disallowed Sears from trademarking the name Jaws for a trash compactor.


rg




and it may be that they didn't want to bother risking a problem at all.
Or, of course, they may have thought that "light" something would make 
for a more appealing product name than "shadow" something -- I would 
agree with that, personally.

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Tom C]

Rob Studdert just e-mailed me the Wikipedia link re: the subject of 
castration.


Castrations after the onset of puberty will typically reduce the sex drive 
considerably or eliminate it altogether. Castrates can, however, still have 
erections, orgasms and ejaculations. The voice will normally not change. 
Some castrates report mood changes, such as depression or a more serene 
outlook on life. Body strength and muscle mass can decrease somewhat. Body 
hair may or may not decrease. Castration prevents male pattern baldness [5].


If I'd have known the last sentence ten years ago... maybe there's still 
time, William Robb...?




Tom C.





From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:37:25 -0700

When you get right down to it... does any kind of castration guarantee that 
the offender won't re-offend?  I didn't think it was the parts removed 
during castration that was necessarially the offending organ... or is there 
something basic in this regard that I have yet to learn?


Tom C.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Well, there is chemical castration. Which I guess works to some degree.

Marnie aka Doe

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis"

Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded



US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
world.


I wasn't expecting you to start cracking jokes.
Thanks for bringing some levity to the table.

William Robb

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Roberts" 
Subject: Re: OT - MacBook Pro - RGH !





http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif
;)


Zeeje. You could replace iProduct with Pentax and it would fit.

William Robb

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C"

Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded





It gets worse when the accusing party is an arm of the government, the 
same government of which   the judicial branch is an arm, and the judge 
knows the accusing party on a regular first name basis.


It's probably even worse in locales where the judiciary are elected 
officials.


William Robb 

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis" 
Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded




You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
hopeless.



You've never heard of the "3 strikes" laws?

William Robb

Re: Adobe Lightroom free beta is here!

[Gonz]

Mark Roberts wrote:

"E.R.N. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Mark Roberts wrote:




I bet they wanted to call it "Light Box" but discovered that name is
taken already.



So was "Shadowlands," admittedly by a movie, but perhaps that was still 
the reason.



You can register the same trademark as someone else as long as it's not
for competing (or nearly competing) products. 
 
 


It sometimes depends on the value of the original trademark.  The 
trademark "Jaws" from the movie was so valuable that the courts 
disallowed Sears from trademarking the name Jaws for a trash compactor.


rg

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Tom C]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Just puzzling to me that people keep identifying with the innocent.


I would venture to say that none of us wants to see a guilty party go free.  
Speaking for myself, I even more so, don't want to see an innocent party 
found guilty and punished.


The first case is most likely one of justice (or retribution) postponed.  
The second case is plain and simple injustice.


Tom C.

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Tom C]

When you get right down to it... does any kind of castration guarantee that 
the offender won't re-offend?  I didn't think it was the parts removed 
during castration that was necessarially the offending organ... or is there 
something basic in this regard that I have yet to learn?


Tom C.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Well, there is chemical castration. Which I guess works to some degree.

Marnie aka Doe

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 1/10/2006 2:12:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
but we're talking here about innocent people. People wrongly convicted whose
balls you've already cut off when you find out they're innocent. What about
these women here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/3306049.stm.
Which parts of their bodies would you cut off?

--
Cheers,
Bob 

How come you guys keep identifying with the innocent, instead of with the 
literally tons of non-innocent? 

More people are convicted who are guilty than innocent (of the crime charged).

Personally, I have zero tolerance for pedophilia. And I am not talking about 
someone just photographing kids. Or someone being mistaken for a pedophile who 
photographs kids. Someone who actually commits physical acts. Proven. It does 
happen. And it happens a lot. Maybe a lot more than people want to admit.

Maybe this is a male/female thing or a parent/non-parent thing. Although not 
a parent,  personally, I identify with parents. And I know there really are 
evil people in the world (well, seriously sick, but it amounts to the same 
thing).

Oh, well, tired of this discussion. Someone can argue with me, but I am out 
of it now.

Just puzzling to me that people keep identifying with the innocent. I think 
DNA is great and I am glad it is being used now to free truly innocents from 
old cases. Not being done fast enough and wide enough, but it is happening.

But the US criminal justice system (except for people in jail for drugs which 
I think should not be a crime) is not 100% wrong all the time. I suspect it's 
more in the range of 10-20% wrong. Hard to know, really. But that leaves 
80-90% right. Probably even higher than that.

We have too many people in jail, yes, but that is mainly drug related. 

Marnie aka Doe 

Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[Mark Roberts]

Oh, by the way:
The order in which the lenses were used was pretty scrambled. I didn't
look at the PEF files while putting the pages together today so even I
don't know which image is from which lens. I'll compile (and post) a key
in a few days.
 
 
-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 1/10/2006 1:46:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Which is why we don't have the death penalty. Execution is too drastic.
Chopping nuts off is fine.

Cheers,
  Cotty
===
Well, there is chemical castration. Which I guess works to some degree.

Marnie aka Doe  

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Tom C]

Depressing isn't it?

Tom C.



From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
world.

Jack

RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[J. C. O'Connell]

I don't think its fair make the comparison with
anything but equal quality lenses across the
entire formats. if you start to allow for different
lens quality then you arent comparing sensors
youre comparing camera systems. My comments
were with regard to sensor size only and assumed
equal quality lenses.
jco



-Original Message-
From: P. J. Alling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:04 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


Could be that a lot of Canon lenses have lousy edge edge performance... That
would be a moot point with an APS sized sensor.

Ivan Shukster wrote:

>Last week I read on the web a comparison of the Canon Lot of Money or 
>whatever that model is called and the Nikon D2X and the result was for 
>some things the Nikon bettered the Canon that had a larger sensor and 
>more megapixels and in other aspects the Canon was the better of the 
>two. Looked at it at a different computer so do not have a link but the 
>photographers were in Norway and one had just bought the D2X and his 
>friend owned the Canon IIRC.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: J. C. O'Connell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: January 10, 2006 5:37 PM
>To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
>Subject: RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same 
>imagaing?
>
>
>I think the answer is very simple. If you keep the
>Mpixels of a digital sensor constant, the larger
>the sensor the higher the quality of the image.
>Two reasons, 1. the individual pixels are larger,
>and thus lower noise. 2. The lenses are never
>infinite resolution so by making the image circle
>bigger ( for the bigger sensor ) more image information
>is resolved to be recorded too. Better recording
>and better image to be recorded. That's got to
>be better...How could a larger sensor NOT improve
>image quality. ( ignoring camera/ lens handling issues, etc. ) jco
>
>-Original Message-
>From: John Forbes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:53 PM
>To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
>Subject: Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same 
>imagaing?
>
>
>First of all, Godfrey, this IS a digital versus film thread.  Your 
>thought experiment is a diversion.
>
>Dealing first with my assertion, common sense tells us that if we have 
>to enlarge a negative/image more, it will look less sharp.  So let's 
>move on.
>
>Dealing with your scenario, which was:
>
>Let's assume that we have two cameras with digital sensors with 8Mpixel 
>resolution, one sized to 16x24mm and one sized to 24x36mm.
>
>Further, let's assume that that we have a 35mm lens and a 50mm lens 
>which demonstrate exactly equal performance.
>
>Fit the 24x36mm camera with a 50mm lens, fit the 16x24mm camera with 
>the 35mm lens. Then take a photograph of the same subject with each of 
>the two cameras, framed and exposed identically, to RAW format files. 
>Process them for identical tonal rendering. Do not apply any 
>sharpening. Print them to 10x15 inch image area on 11x17" paper.
>
>Which one will look sharper and why?
>
>
>My answer:
>
>If we assume that the limiting factor is lens resolution (which it 
>usually is in my experience) then the print from the 50mm lens will be 
>sharper. It will need to be enlarged less.
>
>However, my experience does not include 24x36 sensors.  A sensor of 
>this size with only 8Mpixels will perhaps itself be the limiting 
>factor, and therefore there might not be much or any difference.
>
>However, I should be most interested to hear both your theories and of 
>your practical experience.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:10:25 -, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I said nothing about 35mm film in my thought experiment, John. 
>>Although I disagree with you there too, from personal experience 
>>making 10x15 and larger prints from both 35mm film and 6-8Mpixel 
>>digital captures. But I'll leave that for another digital vs film 
>>thread.
>>
>>I said two cameras, one with a 8Mpixel sensor of 24x36mm dimension and 
>>one with 8Mpixel sensor of 16x24mm dimension. Sensors equal digital 
>>cameras, not film.
>>
>>Godfrey
>>
>>On Jan 9, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Forbes wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Godfrey,
>>>
>>>All else being equal, the 35mm will look sharper.  Assuming both 
>>>media are able to do justice to each lens, and that each lens is able 
>>>to resolve N lpmm, and that the 35mm lens will fill the frame as much 
>>>as the 50mm (it's too late for me to work that out), the 35mm image 
>>>will need less enlargement.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>--Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 
>05/01/2006
>
>
>
>  
>


-- 
When you're worr

RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[J. C. O'Connell]

that's not what I am talking about because there 
are many other factors there. I am talking about identical
made, identical processed sensors with same Mpixels,
just that one is scaled up in size.
jco

-Original Message-
From: Ivan Shukster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:42 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


Last week I read on the web a comparison of the Canon Lot of Money or
whatever that model is called and the Nikon D2X and the result was for some
things the Nikon bettered the Canon that had a larger sensor and more
megapixels and in other aspects the Canon was the better of the two. Looked
at it at a different computer so do not have a link but the photographers
were in Norway and one had just bought the D2X and his friend owned the
Canon IIRC.

-Original Message-
From: J. C. O'Connell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 5:37 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


I think the answer is very simple. If you keep the
Mpixels of a digital sensor constant, the larger
the sensor the higher the quality of the image.
Two reasons, 1. the individual pixels are larger,
and thus lower noise. 2. The lenses are never
infinite resolution so by making the image circle
bigger ( for the bigger sensor ) more image information
is resolved to be recorded too. Better recording
and better image to be recorded. That's got to
be better...How could a larger sensor NOT improve
image quality. ( ignoring camera/ lens handling issues, etc. ) jco

-Original Message-
From: John Forbes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:53 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


First of all, Godfrey, this IS a digital versus film thread.  Your thought
experiment is a diversion.

Dealing first with my assertion, common sense tells us that if we have to
enlarge a negative/image more, it will look less sharp.  So let's move on.

Dealing with your scenario, which was:

Let's assume that we have two cameras with digital sensors with 8Mpixel
resolution, one sized to 16x24mm and one sized to 24x36mm.

Further, let's assume that that we have a 35mm lens and a 50mm lens which
demonstrate exactly equal performance.

Fit the 24x36mm camera with a 50mm lens, fit the 16x24mm camera with the
35mm lens. Then take a photograph of the same subject with each of the two
cameras, framed and exposed identically, to RAW format files. Process them
for identical tonal rendering. Do not apply any sharpening. Print them to
10x15 inch image area on 11x17" paper.

Which one will look sharper and why?


My answer:

If we assume that the limiting factor is lens resolution (which it usually
is in my experience) then the print from the 50mm lens will be sharper. It
will need to be enlarged less.

However, my experience does not include 24x36 sensors.  A sensor of this
size with only 8Mpixels will perhaps itself be the limiting factor, and
therefore there might not be much or any difference.

However, I should be most interested to hear both your theories and of your
practical experience.

John










On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:10:25 -, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I said nothing about 35mm film in my thought experiment, John. 
> Although I disagree with you there too, from personal experience 
> making 10x15 and larger prints from both 35mm film and 6-8Mpixel 
> digital captures. But I'll leave that for another digital vs film 
> thread.
>
> I said two cameras, one with a 8Mpixel sensor of 24x36mm dimension and 
> one with 8Mpixel sensor of 16x24mm dimension. Sensors equal digital 
> cameras, not film.
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Jan 9, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Forbes wrote:
>
>> Godfrey,
>>
>> All else being equal, the 35mm will look sharper.  Assuming both 
>> media are able to do justice to each lens, and that each lens is able 
>> to resolve N lpmm, and that the 35mm lens will fill the frame as much 
>> as the 50mm (it's too late for me to work that out), the 35mm image 
>> will need less enlargement.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>>
>
>
>
>
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/




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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Shel Belinkoff]

Safety?  Not very likely ...

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Juan Buhler 

> Wow. Speak for yourself.
>
> I'd rather keep my privacy rights. Whether I have anything to hide or
> not isn't anyone business. I don't really feel like giving up my
> freedoms in exchange for safety.

Re: Enablement. FA100 Macro from KEH.

[Dave Kennedy]

Thanx Igor.  Yes, it is the 2.8. I would have gone with the DFA, but
the cost advantage of the FA did it for me.  (A DFA 100/2.8 Macro runs
about $800 CDN, I got the FA for half that).

Enjoy it when you get it! I hope the lack of inventory  of the
DFA100/2.8Macro is a good sign indicating high demand. I know some of
the Canadian site here mark it as a hot item.

dk

On 1/10/06, Igor Roshchin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Congratulations, Dave!
> Which one did you get?  I guess f/2.8. (or 3.5?)
>
> I've been looking at the 100 macro f/2.8 FA's myself.
> About a month ago there was one in a similar condition at jackscamera
> for $309, IIRC.
> For myself, I practically decided to buy a D-FA version instead.
> Smaller weight+size + shift focus (+ presumed benefits of D- antiglare
> feature) of a D-FA overweighted (pun intended)
> the better build quality + focusing range limiter + cheaper price
> (used vs. new) of an FA.
>
> I hope disappearance of the D-FA from Adorama and B&H is temporary,
> and just a result of the holiday rush.
>
> Igor
>
>
> Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:32:13 -0800
> Dave Kennedy wrote:
>
> > Financial Christmas gift from my Dad went into my Lens fund, and I
> > just received my FA100 Macro (EX+) from KEH.
> >
>
>

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Rob Studdert]

On 10 Jan 2006 at 16:32, Jack Davis wrote:

> US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
> world.

Yeah, Judge Judy airs here too. ;-)


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[David Savage]

On 1/11/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> http://www.flamingmailbox.com/maccomedy/movies/ibrator.html

LOL

> Godfrey
>
>

first shots with SMC Takumar 55/2

[Collin R Brendemuehl]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7580531989&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

Just picked up a 42->adapter and shot these with the lens.  Mostly 
around f16.  Really sharp.

I'm going to try it for portraits.  Should be nice.

Collin

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:51 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:


http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif


That's been around for quite a while, always gives me a laugh. :-)
Like this one ... WARNING: LOUD MUSIC

http://www.flamingmailbox.com/maccomedy/movies/ibrator.html


Godfrey

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Perry Pellechia]

On 1/10/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Perry Pellechia wrote:
>
> >> What differs between fitting a wireless card in the PC Card slot and
> >> the way Apple designed wireless into their laptop systems is that a)
> >> when you are equipped with Airport you still have a PC Card slot to
> >> use for other things (on systems that offer a PC Card slot), and b)
> >> the integrated antennae are generally better for reception than the
> >> antenna in a one-piece card, and you don't have that antenna
> >> vulnerably hanging out of the side of your laptop.
> >
> > This is what a mini-pci port is for.  All recent windows based
> > notebooks come with them.  They also provide connection to an internal
> > antenna.  Most notebooks with built-in wireless actually use a
> > mini-pci port.
>
> Yup. Same idea, five/six years later...
> Apple's built "wireless ready" systems like this since 1999/2000.
>
> Godfrey
>
Mini-PCI has been available for that long too.

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:49 PM, Adam Maas wrote:

Well, in their defense, what Apple did with the Airport cards was  
simply put an internal PCMCIA slot with an internal connector.  
Airport Extreme is Mini-PCI IIRC.


In defense of whom? And why would anyone need to be defended?

Apple's implementation makes perfect sense and is why the other  
laptop makers latched onto it. The fact is that they were doing it a  
few years before anyone else was. It's not a big deal.


Godfrey

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Tom C]

An interesting little study on how easy it is to confuse the facts, n'est 
pas?


Tom C.





From: Perry Pellechia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 20:38:53 -0500

Actually this was in North Carolina

On 1/10/06, Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> According to the news item on CNN this fellow was convicted in South
> Carolina and was constantly refused parole until this past year. When
> interviewed and asked how it felt to be free he stated he would not feel
> free until he crossed the state line. I am going by the news as it was
> reported on CNN TV and on their web page. There was absolutely no 
mention of
> any other crimes and this was before the three strikes rule. It was in 
the

> news because it was an anomaly.
>
> http://www.alternet.org/rights/24640/
>
> I guess I was wrong on the time It was 35 years instead.
>
> What assumption should I review? That CNN reported the facts wrong, that 
it
> occurred somewhere other than the USA or that I cannot understand what 
news

> I hear? Sorry but I am just repeating what was on US news.
>
> As far as further rational discussion I was just questioning the 
statement
> that the US justice system is the best in the world and that sounded to 
me
> as an absolute, not question true fact. I think it is more an 
assumption.

>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: January 10, 2006 5:47 PM
> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
>
>
> You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
> sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
> Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
> hopeless.
>
> Jack
>
> --- Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Is it?  I am wondering what this is based on. Is it statistically
> > better
> > than the one in Canada or New Zealand or Australia? I cannot
> > understand how
> > someone serving 23 years for stealing a black and white TV is a
> > justice
> > system.  I would think that most people in a "free" country would
> > trust
> > their own system over that of another country as normally only the
> > abnormal
> > results from another country's system makes international news.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: January 10, 2006 5:32 PM
> > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >
> >
> > US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
> > world.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > --- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> > > either
> > > way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> > > even
> > > try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
> > >
> > > Tom C wrote:
> > >
> > > > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
> > > > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
> > > > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by
> > a
> > > > judge, or any other single person.
> > > >
> > > > Tom C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > > >> To: 
> > > >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> > > >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> > > >>
> > > >> > -Original Message-
> > > >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put
> > his
> > > balls
> > > >> > >back on?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> > > >> > guilty.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca

> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> rriages.stm
> > > >>
> > > >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> > > >>
> > > >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bob
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > When you're worried or in doubt,
> > > Run in circles, (scream and shout).
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date:
> > 05/01/2006
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 
05/01/2006

>
>
>


--

<--

RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Ivan Shukster]

But the report also said that the law was changed to a maximum of three
years. I never said he was innocent, just that he got a very long sentence
for stealing a black and white TV. And it was a comment on the statement the
justice system in the US is the best in the world. It may be but I do not
know of facts that back that up and was providing an example of justice not
done in the States. Would he have gotten life if he was from a middle class
white family? This I do not know but I am sure that a search of court
records for North Carolina during the 60s and 70s would tell the story one
way or another. I apologize for getting the state wrong (and the number of
years served) but was going strictly from memory. But the final bit is his
sentence was for the robbery not for his other crimes. Because of his other
crimes he was charged with second degree robbery and that now is a three
year sentence not life.

-Original Message-
From: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 6:43 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


According to the report, Allen had prior arrests for burglaries and an
assault.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Ivan Shukster

> According to the news item on CNN this fellow was convicted in South
> Carolina and was constantly refused parole until this past year. When
> interviewed and asked how it felt to be free he stated he would not feel
> free until he crossed the state line. I am going by the news as it was
> reported on CNN TV and on their web page. There was absolutely no mention
of
> any other crimes and this was before the three strikes rule. It was in the
> news because it was an anomaly.
>
> http://www.alternet.org/rights/24640/




--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Adam Maas]

Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:



On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Perry Pellechia wrote:


What differs between fitting a wireless card in the PC Card slot and
the way Apple designed wireless into their laptop systems is that a)
when you are equipped with Airport you still have a PC Card slot to
use for other things (on systems that offer a PC Card slot), and b)
the integrated antennae are generally better for reception than the
antenna in a one-piece card, and you don't have that antenna
vulnerably hanging out of the side of your laptop.



This is what a mini-pci port is for.  All recent windows based
notebooks come with them.  They also provide connection to an internal
antenna.  Most notebooks with built-in wireless actually use a
mini-pci port.



Yup. Same idea, five/six years later...
Apple's built "wireless ready" systems like this since 1999/2000.

Godfrey


Well, in their defense, what Apple did with the Airport cards was simply 
put an internal PCMCIA slot with an internal connector. Airport Extreme 
is Mini-PCI IIRC.


-Adam

Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[Mark Roberts]

Pixel peepers rejoice!
Here's my digital lens test.
Camera is the ist-D at ISO 200 and f/8, tripod mounted
Manual white balance (daylight)

Lenses are:
FA*24/2.0
FA28/2.8AL
FA50/1.4
F24-50/4.0
FA24-90/3.5-4.5
Tokina 28-70/2.6-2.8
Each zoom was tested at as many of the chosen focal lengths as it could
reach.
I didn't own the 31mm Limited or FA*28-70/2.8 at the time I shot these
test photos :(

Images at:
http://www.robertstech.com/temp/24mm.htm
http://www.robertstech.com/temp/28mm.htm
http://www.robertstech.com/temp/50mm.htm
http://www.robertstech.com/temp/70mm.htm

All converted in Adobe Camera RAW with no sharpening applied. 
Unsharp masking done in Photoshop.
 
 
-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Perry Pellechia wrote:


What differs between fitting a wireless card in the PC Card slot and
the way Apple designed wireless into their laptop systems is that a)
when you are equipped with Airport you still have a PC Card slot to
use for other things (on systems that offer a PC Card slot), and b)
the integrated antennae are generally better for reception than the
antenna in a one-piece card, and you don't have that antenna
vulnerably hanging out of the side of your laptop.


This is what a mini-pci port is for.  All recent windows based
notebooks come with them.  They also provide connection to an internal
antenna.  Most notebooks with built-in wireless actually use a
mini-pci port.


Yup. Same idea, five/six years later...
Apple's built "wireless ready" systems like this since 1999/2000.

Godfrey

RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Shel Belinkoff]

According to the report, Allen had prior arrests for burglaries and an
assault.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Ivan Shukster 

> According to the news item on CNN this fellow was convicted in South
> Carolina and was constantly refused parole until this past year. When
> interviewed and asked how it felt to be free he stated he would not feel
> free until he crossed the state line. I am going by the news as it was
> reported on CNN TV and on their web page. There was absolutely no mention
of
> any other crimes and this was before the three strikes rule. It was in the
> news because it was an anomaly.
>
> http://www.alternet.org/rights/24640/

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Mark Roberts]

"P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>But they are special... ;-)

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif
;)
 
 
 
-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[P. J. Alling]

Reporters are lazy, and they bring their own biases.  Maybe the released 
convict had a long and ignominious history of skirting the edge of the 
law before he was foolish enough to get caught, OTOH, he could have just 
run into an elected DA during a hard fought campaign, defending his law 
and order record.  We don't know.  Like everything else the system is 
run by people.  It seems to me that you don't get sentenced to 35 years 
in prison if you're a choir boy, but like I said, we don't really know.


Ivan Shukster wrote:


According to the news item on CNN this fellow was convicted in South
Carolina and was constantly refused parole until this past year. When
interviewed and asked how it felt to be free he stated he would not feel
free until he crossed the state line. I am going by the news as it was
reported on CNN TV and on their web page. There was absolutely no mention of
any other crimes and this was before the three strikes rule. It was in the
news because it was an anomaly.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/24640/

I guess I was wrong on the time It was 35 years instead.

What assumption should I review? That CNN reported the facts wrong, that it
occurred somewhere other than the USA or that I cannot understand what news
I hear? Sorry but I am just repeating what was on US news.

As far as further rational discussion I was just questioning the statement
that the US justice system is the best in the world and that sounded to me
as an absolute, not question true fact. I think it is more an assumption.

-Original Message-
From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 5:47 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
hopeless.

Jack

--- Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 


Is it?  I am wondering what this is based on. Is it statistically
better
than the one in Canada or New Zealand or Australia? I cannot
understand how
someone serving 23 years for stealing a black and white TV is a
justice
system.  I would think that most people in a "free" country would
trust
their own system over that of another country as normally only the
abnormal
results from another country's system makes international news.

-Original Message-
From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 5:32 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
world.

Jack

--- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   


I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
either
way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
even
try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.

Tom C wrote:

 


Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by
   


a
   


judge, or any other single person.

Tom C.




   


From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -

 


-Original Message-
From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

   


and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put
 


his
   


balls
 


back on?
 


Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
guilty.
   

 


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
 


rriages.stm

 


I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
   


...until it's you, or your son, presumably.

Bob

 



   


--
When you're worried or in doubt,
Run in circles, (scream and shout).


 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date:
05/01/2006



   




__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006



 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Paul Stenquist]

Nah, she was back at her window the next time. Must have seen something 
she liked :-).

On Jan 10, 2006, at 8:00 PM, Kenneth Waller wrote:

And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing to 
hide.

Paul


Is that what your neighbor said?

Sorry Paul I couldn't resist.

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


Is that supposed to be news? Remember how the dems whined after 9/11 
that the government had failed "to connect the dots?" Remember how 
the loyal opposition complained that the administration hadn't done 
enough to protect us against an attack? You can't have it both ways.
And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing to 
hide.

Paul
On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:28 PM, Bob Shell wrote:

Read below:

On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:44 PM, E.R.N. Reed wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Uh, there's no spy camera in my house. Checked just this morning. 
And the only time I ever caught my neighbor spying on me was when 
I went skinny dipping in the pool.

Paul



Same here, except for the pool part, since I don't have one.



-- Original message --
From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


On Jan 10, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Tom C wrote:


In that case why not put spy cameras in everyone's homes so the  
government can watch?  Prevent the uncommitted crime from 
occurring.


Encourage public schools to pry into personal matters. Encourage 
 school children to tell when their parents' personal views 
differ  from those popularly accepted. Encourage neighbor to spy 
upon  neighbor.


I don't know about you, but that's not where I want to live.


We're already living there, I'm afraid.

Bob



Source: Raiders News Service

http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story299.htm

January 08, 2006


The NSA Spy Engine: Echelon

By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t - Investigative Report

A clandestine National Security Agency spy program code-named
Echelon was likely responsible for tapping into the emails,
telephone calls and facsimiles of thousands of average American
citizens over the past four years in its effort to identify
people suspected of communicating with al-Qaeda terrorists,
according to half-a-dozen current and former intelligence
officials from the NSA and FBI.

The existence of the program has been known for some time.
Echelon was developed in the 1970s primarily as an American-
British intelligence sharing system to monitor foreigners -
specifically, during the Cold War, to catch Soviet spies. But
sources said the spyware, operated by satellite, is the means by
which the NSA eavesdropped on Americans when President Bush
secretly authorized the agency to do so in 2002.

Another top-secret program code-named Tempest, also operated by
satellite, is capable of reading computer monitors, cash
registers and automatic teller machines from as far away as a
half-mile and is being used to keep a close eye on an untold
number of American citizens, the sources said, pointing to a
little known declassified document that sheds light on the
program.

Echelon has been shrouded in secrecy for years. A special report
prepared by the European Parliament in the late 1990s disclosed
explosive details about the covert program when it alleged that
Echelon was being used to spy on two foreign defense contractors
- the European companies Airbus Industrie and Thomson-CSF - as
well as sifting through private emails, industrial files and
cell phones of foreigners.

The program is part of a multinational spy effort that includes
intelligence agencies in Canada, Britain, New Zealand and
Australia, also known as the Echelon Alliance, which is
responsible for monitoring different parts of the world.

The NSA has never publicly admitted that Echelon exists, but the
program has been identified in declassified government
documents. Republican and Democratic lawmakers have long
criticized the program and have, in the past, engaged in fierce
debate with the intelligence community over Echelon because of
the ease with which it can spy on Americans without any
oversight from the federal government.

Mike Frost, who spent 20 years as a spy for the CSE, the
Canadian equivalent of the National Security Agency, told the
news program 60 Minutes in February 2000 how Echelon routinely
eavesdrops on many average people at any given moment and how,
depending on what you say either in an email or over the
telephone, you could end up on an NSA watch list.

"While I was at CSE, a classic example: A lady had been to a
school play the night before, and her son was in the school play
and she thought he did a -- a lousy job. Next morning, she was
talking on the telephone to her friend, and she said to her
friend something like this, 'Oh, Danny really bombed last
night,' just like that," Frost said. "The computer spit that
conversation out. The analyst that was looking at it was not too
sure about what the conversation

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Perry Pellechia]

Actually this was in North Carolina

On 1/10/06, Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> According to the news item on CNN this fellow was convicted in South
> Carolina and was constantly refused parole until this past year. When
> interviewed and asked how it felt to be free he stated he would not feel
> free until he crossed the state line. I am going by the news as it was
> reported on CNN TV and on their web page. There was absolutely no mention of
> any other crimes and this was before the three strikes rule. It was in the
> news because it was an anomaly.
>
> http://www.alternet.org/rights/24640/
>
> I guess I was wrong on the time It was 35 years instead.
>
> What assumption should I review? That CNN reported the facts wrong, that it
> occurred somewhere other than the USA or that I cannot understand what news
> I hear? Sorry but I am just repeating what was on US news.
>
> As far as further rational discussion I was just questioning the statement
> that the US justice system is the best in the world and that sounded to me
> as an absolute, not question true fact. I think it is more an assumption.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: January 10, 2006 5:47 PM
> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
>
>
> You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
> sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
> Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
> hopeless.
>
> Jack
>
> --- Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Is it?  I am wondering what this is based on. Is it statistically
> > better
> > than the one in Canada or New Zealand or Australia? I cannot
> > understand how
> > someone serving 23 years for stealing a black and white TV is a
> > justice
> > system.  I would think that most people in a "free" country would
> > trust
> > their own system over that of another country as normally only the
> > abnormal
> > results from another country's system makes international news.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: January 10, 2006 5:32 PM
> > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >
> >
> > US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
> > world.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> > --- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> > > either
> > > way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> > > even
> > > try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
> > >
> > > Tom C wrote:
> > >
> > > > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
> > > > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
> > > > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by
> > a
> > > > judge, or any other single person.
> > > >
> > > > Tom C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > > >> To: 
> > > >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> > > >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> > > >>
> > > >> > -Original Message-
> > > >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put
> > his
> > > balls
> > > >> > >back on?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> > > >> > guilty.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> rriages.stm
> > > >>
> > > >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> > > >>
> > > >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> > > >>
> > > >> Bob
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > When you're worried or in doubt,
> > > Run in circles, (scream and shout).
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date:
> > 05/01/2006
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006
>
>
>


--

<>
Perry Pellechia

Primary email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alternate email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry
<>

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Perry Pellechia]

On 1/10/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What differs between fitting a wireless card in the PC Card slot and
> the way Apple designed wireless into their laptop systems is that a)
> when you are equipped with Airport you still have a PC Card slot to
> use for other things (on systems that offer a PC Card slot), and b)
> the integrated antennae are generally better for reception than the
> antenna in a one-piece card, and you don't have that antenna
> vulnerably hanging out of the side of your laptop.
>

This is what a mini-pci port is for.  All recent windows based
notebooks come with them.  They also provide connection to an internal
antenna.  Most notebooks with built-in wireless actually use a
mini-pci port.

Perry.

<>
Perry Pellechia

Primary email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alternate email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry
<>

RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Ivan Shukster]

According to the news item on CNN this fellow was convicted in South
Carolina and was constantly refused parole until this past year. When
interviewed and asked how it felt to be free he stated he would not feel
free until he crossed the state line. I am going by the news as it was
reported on CNN TV and on their web page. There was absolutely no mention of
any other crimes and this was before the three strikes rule. It was in the
news because it was an anomaly.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/24640/

I guess I was wrong on the time It was 35 years instead.

What assumption should I review? That CNN reported the facts wrong, that it
occurred somewhere other than the USA or that I cannot understand what news
I hear? Sorry but I am just repeating what was on US news.

As far as further rational discussion I was just questioning the statement
that the US justice system is the best in the world and that sounded to me
as an absolute, not question true fact. I think it is more an assumption.

-Original Message-
From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 5:47 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
hopeless.

Jack

--- Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is it?  I am wondering what this is based on. Is it statistically
> better
> than the one in Canada or New Zealand or Australia? I cannot
> understand how
> someone serving 23 years for stealing a black and white TV is a
> justice
> system.  I would think that most people in a "free" country would
> trust
> their own system over that of another country as normally only the
> abnormal
> results from another country's system makes international news.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: January 10, 2006 5:32 PM
> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
>
>
> US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
> world.
>
> Jack
>
> --- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> > either
> > way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> > even
> > try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
> >
> > Tom C wrote:
> >
> > > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
> > > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
> > > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by
> a
> > > judge, or any other single person.
> > >
> > > Tom C.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > >> To: 
> > >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> > >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> > >>
> > >> > -Original Message-
> > >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> >
> > >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put
> his
> > balls
> > >> > >back on?
> > >> >
> > >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> > >> > guilty.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
> >
> > >>
> > >> rriages.stm
> > >>
> > >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> > >>
> > >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> > >>
> > >> Bob
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > When you're worried or in doubt,
> > Run in circles, (scream and shout).
> >
> >
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date:
> 05/01/2006
>
>
>


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Kenneth Waller]

I've been involved in a number of Product Litigation trials. My experience 
over the last 18 years is that in such trials it wasn't necessarily the 
facts that won or lost the trial, but rather it was the story spun by the 
lawyers & their supporting casts. Facts are not ignored but they have little 
impact on the outcome. Witness crediability is also an important factor in 
the outcome of a jury trial.
I have a much more positive feel about bench trials (the judge is the sole 
determining power -  no jury involved). Judges are much more able to cut 
through the story telling and get to the determining facts.


YMMV

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


Well let's just say I've been a defendant in a civil case and endured a 
jury trial.  I won.  It was apparent, by the judge's actions, words, and 
demeanor throughout the trial, that if it was up to him, I would not have 
won. If I had not been able to retain representation that was competent in 
the legal issues of concern, I may not have won.


Jury trials are far from perfect, but one *might* have a chance of 
fair-minded jurors seeing to it that justice is served, or that at least a 
fair-minded verdict is delivered. With a judge (a civil servant and 
therefore an "arm of the law") the chances are pretty much reduced to 
50/50 based on the views and opinions of one person.


It gets worse when the accusing party is an arm of the government, the 
same government of which   the judicial branch is an arm, and the judge 
knows the accusing party on a regular first name basis.



Tom C.




--- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> either
> way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> even
> try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
>
> Tom C wrote:
>
> > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
> > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
> > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by a
> > judge, or any other single person.
> >
> > Tom C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> >> To: 
> >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put his
> balls
> >> > >back on?
> >> >
> >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> >> > guilty.
> >>
> >>
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
>
> >>
> >> rriages.stm
> >>
> >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> >>
> >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> When you're worried or in doubt,
> Run in circles, (scream and shout).
>
>


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Juan Buhler]

On 1/10/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing to
> hide.

Wow. Speak for yourself.

I'd rather keep my privacy rights. Whether I have anything to hide or
not isn't anyone business. I don't really feel like giving up my
freedoms in exchange for safety.

j

--
Juan Buhler
http://www.jbuhler.com
photoblog at http://photoblog.jbuhler.com

Re: PESO: Steve

[Powell Hargrave]

>Sounds like a plan. I'll work on it. Please send the female immediately.

Sorry.  In very short supply here lately.  You will have to provide your own.

Powell

Re: OT - MacBook Pro - AAAARGH !

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Jan 10, 2006, at 3:43 PM, Tim Sherburne wrote:

Apple used to use the marketing phrase "Airport ready" which confused
the heck out of folks, in a sense suggesting that the computer was  
ready for
wireless networking out of the box. This, of course, wasn't the  
case unless
the buyer had explicitly asked for the Airport card or purchased a  
model

with the card already installed.


"Airport Ready" means that the system unit has the connection  
circuitry and antennae for an Airport or Airport extreme wireless  
card built in. "Airport Equipped" means that it has everything  
required for wireless installed. I never found that confusing,  
personally.


What differs between fitting a wireless card in the PC Card slot and  
the way Apple designed wireless into their laptop systems is that a)  
when you are equipped with Airport you still have a PC Card slot to  
use for other things (on systems that offer a PC Card slot), and b)  
the integrated antennae are generally better for reception than the  
antenna in a one-piece card, and you don't have that antenna  
vulnerably hanging out of the side of your laptop.


Godfrey

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Kenneth Waller]

And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing to 
hide.

Paul


Is that what your neighbor said?

Sorry Paul I couldn't resist.

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Stenquist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


Is that supposed to be news? Remember how the dems whined after 9/11 
that the government had failed "to connect the dots?" Remember how the 
loyal opposition complained that the administration hadn't done enough 
to protect us against an attack? You can't have it both ways.


And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing to 
hide.

Paul

On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:28 PM, Bob Shell wrote:


Read below:

On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:44 PM, E.R.N. Reed wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Uh, there's no spy camera in my house. Checked just this morning. 
And the only time I ever caught my neighbor spying on me was when I 
went skinny dipping in the pool.

Paul



Same here, except for the pool part, since I don't have one.



-- Original message --
From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


On Jan 10, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Tom C wrote:


In that case why not put spy cameras in everyone's homes so the  
government can watch?  Prevent the uncommitted crime from 
occurring.


Encourage public schools to pry into personal matters. Encourage  
school children to tell when their parents' personal views differ  
from those popularly accepted. Encourage neighbor to spy upon  
neighbor.


I don't know about you, but that's not where I want to live.


We're already living there, I'm afraid.

Bob



Source: Raiders News Service

http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story299.htm

January 08, 2006


The NSA Spy Engine: Echelon

By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t - Investigative Report

A clandestine National Security Agency spy program code-named
Echelon was likely responsible for tapping into the emails,
telephone calls and facsimiles of thousands of average American
citizens over the past four years in its effort to identify
people suspected of communicating with al-Qaeda terrorists,
according to half-a-dozen current and former intelligence
officials from the NSA and FBI.

The existence of the program has been known for some time.
Echelon was developed in the 1970s primarily as an American-
British intelligence sharing system to monitor foreigners -
specifically, during the Cold War, to catch Soviet spies. But
sources said the spyware, operated by satellite, is the means by
which the NSA eavesdropped on Americans when President Bush
secretly authorized the agency to do so in 2002.

Another top-secret program code-named Tempest, also operated by
satellite, is capable of reading computer monitors, cash
registers and automatic teller machines from as far away as a
half-mile and is being used to keep a close eye on an untold
number of American citizens, the sources said, pointing to a
little known declassified document that sheds light on the
program.

Echelon has been shrouded in secrecy for years. A special report
prepared by the European Parliament in the late 1990s disclosed
explosive details about the covert program when it alleged that
Echelon was being used to spy on two foreign defense contractors
- the European companies Airbus Industrie and Thomson-CSF - as
well as sifting through private emails, industrial files and
cell phones of foreigners.

The program is part of a multinational spy effort that includes
intelligence agencies in Canada, Britain, New Zealand and
Australia, also known as the Echelon Alliance, which is
responsible for monitoring different parts of the world.

The NSA has never publicly admitted that Echelon exists, but the
program has been identified in declassified government
documents. Republican and Democratic lawmakers have long
criticized the program and have, in the past, engaged in fierce
debate with the intelligence community over Echelon because of
the ease with which it can spy on Americans without any
oversight from the federal government.

Mike Frost, who spent 20 years as a spy for the CSE, the
Canadian equivalent of the National Security Agency, told the
news program 60 Minutes in February 2000 how Echelon routinely
eavesdrops on many average people at any given moment and how,
depending on what you say either in an email or over the
telephone, you could end up on an NSA watch list.

"While I was at CSE, a classic example: A lady had been to a
school play the night before, and her son was in the school play
and she thought he did a -- a lousy job. Next morning, she was
talking on the telephone to her friend, and she said to her
friend something like this, 'Oh, Danny really bombed last
night,' just like that," Frost said. "The computer spit that
conversation out. The analyst that was looking at it was not too
sure about what the conversation was referring to, so erring on
the side of caution, he listed that lady and her phone number in
the database as a possible terrorist."

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Tom C]

Well let's just say I've been a defendant in a civil case and endured a jury 
trial.  I won.  It was apparent, by the judge's actions, words, and demeanor 
throughout the trial, that if it was up to him, I would not have won. If I 
had not been able to retain representation that was competent in the legal 
issues of concern, I may not have won.


Jury trials are far from perfect, but one *might* have a chance of 
fair-minded jurors seeing to it that justice is served, or that at least a 
fair-minded verdict is delivered. With a judge (a civil servant and 
therefore an "arm of the law") the chances are pretty much reduced to 50/50 
based on the views and opinions of one person.


It gets worse when the accusing party is an arm of the government, the same 
government of which   the judicial branch is an arm, and the judge knows the 
accusing party on a regular first name basis.



Tom C.




--- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> either
> way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> even
> try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
>
> Tom C wrote:
>
> > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
> > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
> > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by a
> > judge, or any other single person.
> >
> > Tom C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> >> To: 
> >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put his
> balls
> >> > >back on?
> >> >
> >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> >> > guilty.
> >>
> >>
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
>
> >>
> >> rriages.stm
> >>
> >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> >>
> >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> When you're worried or in doubt,
>Run in circles, (scream and shout).
>
>


__
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RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Shel Belinkoff]

There are people serving even longer sentences for similar crimes due the
"three strikes" program.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Jack Davis 

> You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
> sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
> Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
> hopeless.

Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[P. J. Alling]

Could be that a lot of Canon lenses have lousy edge edge performance...
That would be a moot point with an APS sized sensor.

Ivan Shukster wrote:


Last week I read on the web a comparison of the Canon Lot of Money or
whatever that model is called and the Nikon D2X and the result was for some
things the Nikon bettered the Canon that had a larger sensor and more
megapixels and in other aspects the Canon was the better of the two. Looked
at it at a different computer so do not have a link but the photographers
were in Norway and one had just bought the D2X and his friend owned the
Canon IIRC.

-Original Message-
From: J. C. O'Connell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 5:37 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


I think the answer is very simple. If you keep the
Mpixels of a digital sensor constant, the larger
the sensor the higher the quality of the image.
Two reasons, 1. the individual pixels are larger,
and thus lower noise. 2. The lenses are never
infinite resolution so by making the image circle
bigger ( for the bigger sensor ) more image information
is resolved to be recorded too. Better recording
and better image to be recorded. That's got to
be better...How could a larger sensor NOT improve
image quality. ( ignoring camera/ lens handling issues, etc. )
jco

-Original Message-
From: John Forbes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:53 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


First of all, Godfrey, this IS a digital versus film thread.  Your thought
experiment is a diversion.

Dealing first with my assertion, common sense tells us that if we have to
enlarge a negative/image more, it will look less sharp.  So let's move on.

Dealing with your scenario, which was:

Let's assume that we have two cameras with digital sensors with 8Mpixel
resolution, one sized to 16x24mm and one sized to 24x36mm.

Further, let's assume that that we have a 35mm lens and a 50mm lens which
demonstrate exactly equal performance.

Fit the 24x36mm camera with a 50mm lens, fit the 16x24mm camera with the
35mm lens. Then take a photograph of the same subject with each of the two
cameras, framed and exposed identically, to RAW format files. Process them
for identical tonal rendering. Do not apply any sharpening. Print them to
10x15 inch image area on 11x17" paper.

Which one will look sharper and why?


My answer:

If we assume that the limiting factor is lens resolution (which it usually
is in my experience) then the print from the 50mm lens will be sharper.
It will need to be enlarged less.

However, my experience does not include 24x36 sensors.  A sensor of this
size with only 8Mpixels will perhaps itself be the limiting factor, and
therefore there might not be much or any difference.

However, I should be most interested to hear both your theories and of
your practical experience.

John










On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:10:25 -, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

 


I said nothing about 35mm film in my thought experiment, John.
Although
I disagree with you there too, from personal experience making 10x15 and
larger prints from both 35mm film and 6-8Mpixel digital captures. But
I'll leave that for another digital vs film thread.

I said two cameras, one with a 8Mpixel sensor of 24x36mm dimension and
one with 8Mpixel sensor of 16x24mm dimension. Sensors equal digital
cameras, not film.

Godfrey

On Jan 9, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Forbes wrote:

   


Godfrey,

All else being equal, the 35mm will look sharper.  Assuming both
media
are able to do justice to each lens, and that each lens is able to
resolve N lpmm, and that the 35mm lens will fill the frame as much as
the 50mm (it's too late for me to work that out), the 35mm image will
need less enlargement.

John

--Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

 





   





--
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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006



 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

You don't seriously think that one would receive a 23 year prison
sentence simply for "stealing a black and white TV"?
Until you review that assumption, further rational discussion would be
hopeless.

Jack

--- Ivan Shukster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is it?  I am wondering what this is based on. Is it statistically
> better
> than the one in Canada or New Zealand or Australia? I cannot
> understand how
> someone serving 23 years for stealing a black and white TV is a
> justice
> system.  I would think that most people in a "free" country would
> trust
> their own system over that of another country as normally only the
> abnormal
> results from another country's system makes international news.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: January 10, 2006 5:32 PM
> To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> 
> 
> US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
> world.
> 
> Jack
> 
> --- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> > either
> > way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> > even
> > try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
> >
> > Tom C wrote:
> >
> > > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
> > > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
> > > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by
> a
> > > judge, or any other single person.
> > >
> > > Tom C.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> > >> To: 
> > >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> > >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> > >>
> > >> > -Original Message-
> > >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> >
> > >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put
> his
> > balls
> > >> > >back on?
> > >> >
> > >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> > >> > guilty.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
> >
> > >>
> > >> rriages.stm
> > >>
> > >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> > >>
> > >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> > >>
> > >> Bob
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > When you're worried or in doubt,
> > Run in circles, (scream and shout).
> >
> >
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date:
> 05/01/2006
> 
> 
> 


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RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[Ivan Shukster]

Last week I read on the web a comparison of the Canon Lot of Money or
whatever that model is called and the Nikon D2X and the result was for some
things the Nikon bettered the Canon that had a larger sensor and more
megapixels and in other aspects the Canon was the better of the two. Looked
at it at a different computer so do not have a link but the photographers
were in Norway and one had just bought the D2X and his friend owned the
Canon IIRC.

-Original Message-
From: J. C. O'Connell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 5:37 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


I think the answer is very simple. If you keep the
Mpixels of a digital sensor constant, the larger
the sensor the higher the quality of the image.
Two reasons, 1. the individual pixels are larger,
and thus lower noise. 2. The lenses are never
infinite resolution so by making the image circle
bigger ( for the bigger sensor ) more image information
is resolved to be recorded too. Better recording
and better image to be recorded. That's got to
be better...How could a larger sensor NOT improve
image quality. ( ignoring camera/ lens handling issues, etc. )
jco

-Original Message-
From: John Forbes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:53 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


First of all, Godfrey, this IS a digital versus film thread.  Your thought
experiment is a diversion.

Dealing first with my assertion, common sense tells us that if we have to
enlarge a negative/image more, it will look less sharp.  So let's move on.

Dealing with your scenario, which was:

Let's assume that we have two cameras with digital sensors with 8Mpixel
resolution, one sized to 16x24mm and one sized to 24x36mm.

Further, let's assume that that we have a 35mm lens and a 50mm lens which
demonstrate exactly equal performance.

Fit the 24x36mm camera with a 50mm lens, fit the 16x24mm camera with the
35mm lens. Then take a photograph of the same subject with each of the two
cameras, framed and exposed identically, to RAW format files. Process them
for identical tonal rendering. Do not apply any sharpening. Print them to
10x15 inch image area on 11x17" paper.

Which one will look sharper and why?


My answer:

If we assume that the limiting factor is lens resolution (which it usually
is in my experience) then the print from the 50mm lens will be sharper.
It will need to be enlarged less.

However, my experience does not include 24x36 sensors.  A sensor of this
size with only 8Mpixels will perhaps itself be the limiting factor, and
therefore there might not be much or any difference.

However, I should be most interested to hear both your theories and of
your practical experience.

John










On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:10:25 -, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I said nothing about 35mm film in my thought experiment, John.
> Although
> I disagree with you there too, from personal experience making 10x15 and
> larger prints from both 35mm film and 6-8Mpixel digital captures. But
> I'll leave that for another digital vs film thread.
>
> I said two cameras, one with a 8Mpixel sensor of 24x36mm dimension and
> one with 8Mpixel sensor of 16x24mm dimension. Sensors equal digital
> cameras, not film.
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Jan 9, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Forbes wrote:
>
>> Godfrey,
>>
>> All else being equal, the 35mm will look sharper.  Assuming both
>> media
>> are able to do justice to each lens, and that each lens is able to
>> resolve N lpmm, and that the 35mm lens will fill the frame as much as
>> the 50mm (it's too late for me to work that out), the 35mm image will
>> need less enlargement.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>>
>
>
>
>
>



--
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[P. J. Alling]

I never said it wasn't, just implied that you shouldn't expect justice 
from the law.


Jack Davis wrote:


US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
world.

Jack

--- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 


I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
either 
way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
even 
try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.


Tom C wrote:

   

Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice 
system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of 
justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by a 
judge, or any other single person.


Tom C.




 


From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
To: 
Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -

   


-Original Message-
From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 


and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put his
   


balls
   


back on?
   


Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
guilty.
 

   


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
 


rriages.stm

   


I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
 


...until it's you, or your son, presumably.

Bob

   



 


--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).



   




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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



 




--
When you're worried or in doubt, 
	Run in circles, (scream and shout).

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Christian]

P. J. Alling wrote:
So far they've come nowhere near to proving his innocence.  The 
probability of someone else even being a candidate is close to 
1/infinity.  They're doing further testing but it looks more like 
they've decided what they want to prove and the evidence must be made to 
fit.


Ok, upon further research, the dude is creepy.

We'll see.  Should come out this week.  It will be interesting either way.

--

Christian
http://photography.skofteland.net

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

Absolutely, Paul! Glad to know it happening.

Jack

--- Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is that supposed to be news? Remember how the dems whined after 9/11 
> that the government had failed "to connect the dots?" Remember how
> the 
> loyal opposition complained that the administration hadn't done
> enough 
> to protect us against an attack? You can't have it both ways.
> 
> And if someone is spying on me, let them spy away. I have nothing to 
> hide.
> Paul
> 
> On Jan 10, 2006, at 5:28 PM, Bob Shell wrote:
> 
> > Read below:
> >
> > On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:44 PM, E.R.N. Reed wrote:
> >
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >>> Uh, there's no spy camera in my house. Checked just this morning.
> 
> >>> And the only time I ever caught my neighbor spying on me was when
> I 
> >>> went skinny dipping in the pool.
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>
> >> Same here, except for the pool part, since I don't have one.
> >>
> >>
> >>> -- Original message --
> >>> From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>
>  On Jan 10, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Tom C wrote:
> 
> 
> > In that case why not put spy cameras in everyone's homes so the
>  
> > government can watch?  Prevent the uncommitted crime from 
> > occurring.
> >
> > Encourage public schools to pry into personal matters.
> Encourage  
> > school children to tell when their parents' personal views
> differ  
> > from those popularly accepted. Encourage neighbor to spy upon  
> > neighbor.
> >
> > I don't know about you, but that's not where I want to live.
> >
>  We're already living there, I'm afraid.
> 
>  Bob
> >
> >
> > Source: Raiders News Service
> >
> > http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story299.htm
> >
> > January 08, 2006
> >
> >
> > The NSA Spy Engine: Echelon
> >
> > By Jason Leopold
> > t r u t h o u t - Investigative Report
> >
> > A clandestine National Security Agency spy program code-named
> > Echelon was likely responsible for tapping into the emails,
> > telephone calls and facsimiles of thousands of average American
> > citizens over the past four years in its effort to identify
> > people suspected of communicating with al-Qaeda terrorists,
> > according to half-a-dozen current and former intelligence
> > officials from the NSA and FBI.
> >
> > The existence of the program has been known for some time.
> > Echelon was developed in the 1970s primarily as an American-
> > British intelligence sharing system to monitor foreigners -
> > specifically, during the Cold War, to catch Soviet spies. But
> > sources said the spyware, operated by satellite, is the means by
> > which the NSA eavesdropped on Americans when President Bush
> > secretly authorized the agency to do so in 2002.
> >
> > Another top-secret program code-named Tempest, also operated by
> > satellite, is capable of reading computer monitors, cash
> > registers and automatic teller machines from as far away as a
> > half-mile and is being used to keep a close eye on an untold
> > number of American citizens, the sources said, pointing to a
> > little known declassified document that sheds light on the
> > program.
> >
> > Echelon has been shrouded in secrecy for years. A special report
> > prepared by the European Parliament in the late 1990s disclosed
> > explosive details about the covert program when it alleged that
> > Echelon was being used to spy on two foreign defense contractors
> > - the European companies Airbus Industrie and Thomson-CSF - as
> > well as sifting through private emails, industrial files and
> > cell phones of foreigners.
> >
> > The program is part of a multinational spy effort that includes
> > intelligence agencies in Canada, Britain, New Zealand and
> > Australia, also known as the Echelon Alliance, which is
> > responsible for monitoring different parts of the world.
> >
> > The NSA has never publicly admitted that Echelon exists, but the
> > program has been identified in declassified government
> > documents. Republican and Democratic lawmakers have long
> > criticized the program and have, in the past, engaged in fierce
> > debate with the intelligence community over Echelon because of
> > the ease with which it can spy on Americans without any
> > oversight from the federal government.
> >
> > Mike Frost, who spent 20 years as a spy for the CSE, the
> > Canadian equivalent of the National Security Agency, told the
> > news program 60 Minutes in February 2000 how Echelon routinely
> > eavesdrops on many average people at any given moment and how,
> > depending on what you say either in an email or over the
> > telephone, you could end up on an NSA watch list.
> >
> > "While I was at CSE, a classic example: A lady had been to a
> > school play the night before, and her son was in the school play
> > and she thought he did a -- a lousy job. Next morning, she was
> > talking on the telephone to her friend, and she said to her
> > friend something like this, 'Oh, Dan

RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Ivan Shukster]

Is it?  I am wondering what this is based on. Is it statistically better
than the one in Canada or New Zealand or Australia? I cannot understand how
someone serving 23 years for stealing a black and white TV is a justice
system.  I would think that most people in a "free" country would trust
their own system over that of another country as normally only the abnormal
results from another country's system makes international news.

-Original Message-
From: Jack Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 10, 2006 5:32 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded


US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
world.

Jack

--- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> either
> way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> even
> try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
>
> Tom C wrote:
>
> > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice
> > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of
> > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by a
> > judge, or any other single person.
> >
> > Tom C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> >> To: 
> >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put his
> balls
> >> > >back on?
> >> >
> >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> >> > guilty.
> >>
> >>
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
>
> >>
> >> rriages.stm
> >>
> >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> >>
> >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> When you're worried or in doubt,
>   Run in circles, (scream and shout).
>
>


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release Date: 05/01/2006

RE: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?

[J. C. O'Connell]

I think the answer is very simple. If you keep the
Mpixels of a digital sensor constant, the larger
the sensor the higher the quality of the image.
Two reasons, 1. the individual pixels are larger,
and thus lower noise. 2. The lenses are never
infinite resolution so by making the image circle
bigger ( for the bigger sensor ) more image information
is resolved to be recorded too. Better recording
and better image to be recorded. That's got to 
be better...How could a larger sensor NOT improve
image quality. ( ignoring camera/ lens handling issues, etc. )
jco

-Original Message-
From: John Forbes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:53 PM
To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Subject: Re: Pentax lens test on DIGITAL? All Pentax DSLR same imagaing?


First of all, Godfrey, this IS a digital versus film thread.  Your thought  
experiment is a diversion.

Dealing first with my assertion, common sense tells us that if we have to  
enlarge a negative/image more, it will look less sharp.  So let's move on.

Dealing with your scenario, which was:

Let's assume that we have two cameras with digital sensors with 8Mpixel  
resolution, one sized to 16x24mm and one sized to 24x36mm.

Further, let's assume that that we have a 35mm lens and a 50mm lens which  
demonstrate exactly equal performance.

Fit the 24x36mm camera with a 50mm lens, fit the 16x24mm camera with the  
35mm lens. Then take a photograph of the same subject with each of the two  
cameras, framed and exposed identically, to RAW format files. Process them  
for identical tonal rendering. Do not apply any sharpening. Print them to  
10x15 inch image area on 11x17" paper.

Which one will look sharper and why?


My answer:

If we assume that the limiting factor is lens resolution (which it usually  
is in my experience) then the print from the 50mm lens will be sharper.   
It will need to be enlarged less.

However, my experience does not include 24x36 sensors.  A sensor of this  
size with only 8Mpixels will perhaps itself be the limiting factor, and  
therefore there might not be much or any difference.

However, I should be most interested to hear both your theories and of  
your practical experience.

John










On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 01:10:25 -, Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

> I said nothing about 35mm film in my thought experiment, John. 
> Although
> I disagree with you there too, from personal experience making 10x15 and  
> larger prints from both 35mm film and 6-8Mpixel digital captures. But  
> I'll leave that for another digital vs film thread.
>
> I said two cameras, one with a 8Mpixel sensor of 24x36mm dimension and
> one with 8Mpixel sensor of 16x24mm dimension. Sensors equal digital  
> cameras, not film.
>
> Godfrey
>
> On Jan 9, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Forbes wrote:
>
>> Godfrey,
>>
>> All else being equal, the 35mm will look sharper.  Assuming both 
>> media
>> are able to do justice to each lens, and that each lens is able to  
>> resolve N lpmm, and that the 35mm lens will fill the frame as much as  
>> the 50mm (it's too late for me to work that out), the 35mm image will  
>> need less enlargement.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Re: Vigilant or Bloody Minded

[Jack Davis]

US justice system is far from perfect, it's only the best one in the
world.

Jack

--- "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't know about that, I expect that real justice is a likely
> either 
> way.  Juries can be capricious, so can judges.  The system doesn't
> even 
> try to guarantee justice by the way, only process.
> 
> Tom C wrote:
> 
> > Don't think my earlier comments meant I have faith in the justice 
> > system(s).  It's just that one probably stands a better chance of 
> > justice (statistically) if their case is heard by a jury than by a 
> > judge, or any other single person.
> >
> > Tom C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> >> To: 
> >> Subject: RE: Vigilant or Bloody Minded
> >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> > >and when you castrate an innocent person, how will you put his
> balls
> >> > >back on?
> >> >
> >> > Someone proven by the courts to be guilty is likely to be
> >> > guilty.
> >>
> >>
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/life_of_crime/misca
> 
> >>
> >> rriages.stm
> >>
> >> > I'm happy with the risk he might be innocent. Balls away!
> >>
> >> ...until it's you, or your son, presumably.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> When you're worried or in doubt, 
>   Run in circles, (scream and shout).
> 
> 


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