Re: B&W Film Development app
Analog photography deserves an analog app. On 8/22/2013 3:16 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: Paper. I remember paper. The app is a more flexible version of the same info. Just don't tack your iPhone to the darkroom wall. stan On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:18 PM, John wrote: As I remember, it used to be available as a chart; a piece of paper you could tack up to the wall that looked something like a spreadsheet. On 8/21/2013 8:34 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: Mark C's recent Chicago gallery, mostly produced with Tri-X, and his discussions about the brew he used to develop said film, reminded me of a comment I have been meaning to make. For the iOS, and possibly other mobile OS systems? there is an app called Massive Dev Chart Timer. It looks like a compilation of many sources of recommendations for what brew to use for how long with what agitation for whatever type of film. And IIRC a built in timer to time the agitations and total time. And IIRC a way to change entries to your own preferred way of doing things. And a way to make notes on e.g. your experience using HC-110 with Tri-X. If nothingThe app else, it seems like a good start point for someone just coming to film development or who has been away for so long that they don't recall the parameters of a given film/brew combination. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: B&W Film Development app
The massive developer chart is available as an app for iphone android and nokia. I just write down the info I need. On a sticky note - that's higher tech than plain paper... Idea for a really cool film development app - enter the film brand and speed; developer type, concentration and temp; desired contrast level and then tape the phone to the tank and hit the start button. The phone would sense your agitation technique and sound a beep when the film is done Might take a lot of testing to accomplish. Mark On 8/21/2013 8:34 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: Mark C's recent Chicago gallery, mostly produced with Tri-X, and his discussions about the brew he used to develop said film, reminded me of a comment I have been meaning to make. For the iOS, and possibly other mobile OS systems? there is an app called Massive Dev Chart Timer. It looks like a compilation of many sources of recommendations for what brew to use for how long with what agitation for whatever type of film. And IIRC a built in timer to time the agitations and total time. And IIRC a way to change entries to your own preferred way of doing things. And a way to make notes on e.g. your experience using HC-110 with Tri-X. If nothing else, it seems like a good start point for someone just coming to film development or who has been away for so long that they don't recall the parameters of a given film/brew combination. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: B&W Film Development app
Hard to spill developer on it when I have it tacked to the wall .. Godfrey On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Chris Mitchell wrote: > Ah, but would you want to spill developer on your iPhone? > Chris > > On 22 August 2013 20:16, Stan Halpin wrote: >> Paper. I remember paper. >> >> The app is a more flexible version of the same info. Just don't tack your >> iPhone to the darkroom wall. >> >> stan >> >> On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:18 PM, John wrote: >> >>> As I remember, it used to be available as a chart; a piece of paper you >>> could tack up to the wall that looked something like a spreadsheet. >>> >>> On 8/21/2013 8:34 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: >>>> Mark C's recent Chicago gallery, mostly produced with Tri-X, and his >>>> discussions about the brew he used to develop said film, reminded me >>>> of a comment I have been meaning to make. >>>> >>>> For the iOS, and possibly other mobile OS systems? there is an app >>>> called Massive Dev Chart Timer. It looks like a compilation of many >>>> sources of recommendations for what brew to use for how long with >>>> what agitation for whatever type of film. And IIRC a built in timer >>>> to time the agitations and total time. And IIRC a way to change >>>> entries to your own preferred way of doing things. And a way to make >>>> notes on e.g. your experience using HC-110 with Tri-X. If nothingThe app >>>> else, it seems like a good start point for someone just coming to >>>> film development or who has been away for so long that they don't >>>> recall the parameters of a given film/brew combination. >>>> >>>> stan >>> >>> -- >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>> PDML@pdml.net >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >>> follow the directions. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: B&W Film Development app
Ah, but would you want to spill developer on your iPhone? Chris On 22 August 2013 20:16, Stan Halpin wrote: > Paper. I remember paper. > > The app is a more flexible version of the same info. Just don't tack your > iPhone to the darkroom wall. > > stan > > On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:18 PM, John wrote: > >> As I remember, it used to be available as a chart; a piece of paper you >> could tack up to the wall that looked something like a spreadsheet. >> >> On 8/21/2013 8:34 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: >>> Mark C's recent Chicago gallery, mostly produced with Tri-X, and his >>> discussions about the brew he used to develop said film, reminded me >>> of a comment I have been meaning to make. >>> >>> For the iOS, and possibly other mobile OS systems? there is an app >>> called Massive Dev Chart Timer. It looks like a compilation of many >>> sources of recommendations for what brew to use for how long with >>> what agitation for whatever type of film. And IIRC a built in timer >>> to time the agitations and total time. And IIRC a way to change >>> entries to your own preferred way of doing things. And a way to make >>> notes on e.g. your experience using HC-110 with Tri-X. If nothingThe app >>> else, it seems like a good start point for someone just coming to >>> film development or who has been away for so long that they don't >>> recall the parameters of a given film/brew combination. >>> >>> stan >>> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: B&W Film Development app
Paper. I remember paper. The app is a more flexible version of the same info. Just don't tack your iPhone to the darkroom wall. stan On Aug 22, 2013, at 12:18 PM, John wrote: > As I remember, it used to be available as a chart; a piece of paper you > could tack up to the wall that looked something like a spreadsheet. > > On 8/21/2013 8:34 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: >> Mark C's recent Chicago gallery, mostly produced with Tri-X, and his >> discussions about the brew he used to develop said film, reminded me >> of a comment I have been meaning to make. >> >> For the iOS, and possibly other mobile OS systems? there is an app >> called Massive Dev Chart Timer. It looks like a compilation of many >> sources of recommendations for what brew to use for how long with >> what agitation for whatever type of film. And IIRC a built in timer >> to time the agitations and total time. And IIRC a way to change >> entries to your own preferred way of doing things. And a way to make >> notes on e.g. your experience using HC-110 with Tri-X. If nothingThe app >> else, it seems like a good start point for someone just coming to >> film development or who has been away for so long that they don't >> recall the parameters of a given film/brew combination. >> >> stan >> > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: B&W Film Development app
As I remember, it used to be available as a chart; a piece of paper you could tack up to the wall that looked something like a spreadsheet. On 8/21/2013 8:34 PM, Stan Halpin wrote: Mark C's recent Chicago gallery, mostly produced with Tri-X, and his discussions about the brew he used to develop said film, reminded me of a comment I have been meaning to make. For the iOS, and possibly other mobile OS systems? there is an app called Massive Dev Chart Timer. It looks like a compilation of many sources of recommendations for what brew to use for how long with what agitation for whatever type of film. And IIRC a built in timer to time the agitations and total time. And IIRC a way to change entries to your own preferred way of doing things. And a way to make notes on e.g. your experience using HC-110 with Tri-X. If nothing else, it seems like a good start point for someone just coming to film development or who has been away for so long that they don't recall the parameters of a given film/brew combination. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
B&W Film Development app
Mark C's recent Chicago gallery, mostly produced with Tri-X, and his discussions about the brew he used to develop said film, reminded me of a comment I have been meaning to make. For the iOS, and possibly other mobile OS systems? there is an app called Massive Dev Chart Timer. It looks like a compilation of many sources of recommendations for what brew to use for how long with what agitation for whatever type of film. And IIRC a built in timer to time the agitations and total time. And IIRC a way to change entries to your own preferred way of doing things. And a way to make notes on e.g. your experience using HC-110 with Tri-X. If nothing else, it seems like a good start point for someone just coming to film development or who has been away for so long that they don't recall the parameters of a given film/brew combination. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Color Film Development
-Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Cesar > > > Had a nice time shooting with the MZ-S and LXen this > weekend. I even shot > some ASA 3200 b&w in a Greek restaurant where they > encourage people to dance > on the tables. I hope to get these developed shortly. I went to the Smithsonian Folklife Festival w/ assistant #7 on Sunday and some Tajiks got me up on stage dancing. #7 thinks she got some pics of me... I also managed to sneak a few at the Edward Weston exhibit today. tv - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Color Film Development
-Original Message- From: tom Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 8:13 PM > -Original Message- > From: David Weiss > > > Hi all, > > I believe there is a fairly popular list member who > has offered to develop film for list members. Are you > still out there? I offered to develop b+w, but I'm not popular. Cesar never returns my calls. > I have a few rolls I would like > handled with care. If not, does anyone have any > suggestions where to send them? I am currently > discouraged with my usual place. Where are you? You could mail them to my lab: www.uphoto.com tv - Tom, It seems I don't respond well to e-mails either. I just got back in town from four days in south Florida thus the silence. I have been following your 'flashing' adventures though. I might return your calls if you left a message - maybe it is the multi-language answering machine that throws you. I know it can't be the snaked LXen ;-) Had a nice time shooting with the MZ-S and LXen this weekend. I even shot some ASA 3200 b&w in a Greek restaurant where they encourage people to dance on the tables. I hope to get these developed shortly. Still catching up, Cesar Panama City, Florida - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Color Film Development
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of David Weiss > > > Hi all, > > I believe there is a fairly popular list member who > has offered to develop film for list members. Are you > still out there? I offered to develop b+w, but I'm not popular. Cesar never returns my calls. > I have a few rolls I would like > handled with care. If not, does anyone have any > suggestions where to send them? I am currently > discouraged with my usual place. Where are you? You could mail them to my lab: www.uphoto.com tv - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Color Film Development
Hi all, I believe there is a fairly popular list member who has offered to develop film for list members. Are you still out there? I have a few rolls I would like handled with care. If not, does anyone have any suggestions where to send them? I am currently discouraged with my usual place. In the USA, btw. Thanks Dave Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Tips on Film Development temps
Bill, Thanks for the suggestion. I had not thought about using the fridge to cool the chemistry. Now I just need to get "clearance" from my wife :-) Delano on 6/12/02 12:57 PM, William Robb at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > - Original Message - > From: Delano Mireles > >> With the onset of summer here in Texas I find myself having a > difficult time >> controlling the temperature of my developing chemicals and so > I come to >> y'all (Like I said - I'm from Texas) for any tips on keeping > your soup at a >> consistent temp. > > I presume you are processing B&W, as colour goes pretty warm. > > The best way for tropical processing is to cool the chemistry to > processing temperature in a refrigerator and use a water bath to > keep the temperature constant during processing. Ice can be used > in the water bath to cool it, as required. > This may not help much for paper processing, but temperature is > not quite so critical for paper as it is for film. > > William Robb > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Tips on Film Development temps
Thanks, Tom. I have the bath but I just have a difficult time dialing it in at around 68 degrees. Sometimes I overshoot and get it down to 62 and then have a hard time getting it back up without overshooting. Then again, I'm probably not being patient enough :-) Thanks again, Delano on 6/12/02 12:03 PM, tom at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Delano Mireles >> >> >> With the onset of summer here in Texas I find myself having >> a difficult time >> controlling the temperature of my developing chemicals and >> so I come to >> y'all (Like I said - I'm from Texas) for any tips on >> keeping your soup at a >> consistent temp. > > Well, first thing you need is a tempering bath, and maybe a good > supply of ice cubes. > > 2nd thing would be an air conditioner. Or do you have swamp coolers > down there? > > #rd, increase your processing temperature. The standard temp is 68, > don't be afraid to move up to 75. That's 7 degress you don't have to > worry about. > > tv > > -- > Thomas Van Veen Photography > www.bigdayphoto.com > 301-758-3085 > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Tips on Film Development temps
- Original Message - From: Delano Mireles > With the onset of summer here in Texas I find myself having a difficult time > controlling the temperature of my developing chemicals and so I come to > y'all (Like I said - I'm from Texas) for any tips on keeping your soup at a > consistent temp. I presume you are processing B&W, as colour goes pretty warm. The best way for tropical processing is to cool the chemistry to processing temperature in a refrigerator and use a water bath to keep the temperature constant during processing. Ice can be used in the water bath to cool it, as required. This may not help much for paper processing, but temperature is not quite so critical for paper as it is for film. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Tips on Film Development temps
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Delano Mireles > > > With the onset of summer here in Texas I find myself having > a difficult time > controlling the temperature of my developing chemicals and > so I come to > y'all (Like I said - I'm from Texas) for any tips on > keeping your soup at a > consistent temp. Well, first thing you need is a tempering bath, and maybe a good supply of ice cubes. 2nd thing would be an air conditioner. Or do you have swamp coolers down there? #rd, increase your processing temperature. The standard temp is 68, don't be afraid to move up to 75. That's 7 degress you don't have to worry about. tv -- Thomas Van Veen Photography www.bigdayphoto.com 301-758-3085 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Re: Film development
I have been using a lab in my home town for about 8-10 years (Rapid Photo)anf quite often have exposure talks with the owner who is an avid photographer him self.We can sit and talk about what i might be doing right or wrong and what he is doing to help me out.These discussions are educational and enjoyable.I have noticed on occasion,customers will hang around to listen.When he see's my horse shots he knows what i'm trying to do by now and adjust's (unless i tell him not to.) They will always redo prints that they may have boo bood on. If he ever close's shop i don't know what i'll do Regards Dave Sign up today for your Free E-mail at: http://www.canoe.ca/CanoeMail - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Film development
- Original Message - From: "Eduardo Carone Costa Júnior" Subject: Re: Film development > > So the machine "compares" your photo to those in that particular film > Shirley, right? That makes sense... > If you read what I wrote earlier about "N"s, is the Shirley related only to > that last "N" that, as I've been told, represents exposure? Or is the > Shirley related to all the "N"s, I mean, the three color channels plus the > exposure channel? The set-up neg is used to adjust the machine's output so that a "normal" negative will print with all three colour buttons and the density button on normal "N". > I usually take my stuff to that particular lab only. In fact, I'm pleased > about the way they work. > Sometimes, when I'm in a hurry, I have a roll or two developed at other > labs, only to take it back to my trusted lab to have other prints made... > they often look a lot better. > So far, I haven't pointed them how I would like one particular image to be > developed/printed (lighter/darker), but, after reading all that's been said > about it, I'll start telling them how I'd prefer them. I'm sure they won't > object, as they have always been very kind towards customers. A good lab will happily redo pictures that you are not happy with, no questions asked. A better lab will tell you when it isn't worth trying, and will tell you why so that you won't make the same mistake again, and then will try to improve on the first run print for you. William Robb Remember, the LX Gallery is coming up. Please see: http://pug.komkon.org/LX_Gallery/LX_Submit.html for more information. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Film development
William Robb wrote: > Why is it that photographers expect perfect prints when they > have given absolutely no instruction to the printer about what > they want from the print? Why is the lab suddenly butchering the > job when it doesn't get the picture exactly right the first > time? One time I explained it to an unusually rude customer this way: you're paying more not because I'm psychic and will get exactly what you saw in your head onto this paper on my first try without any instructions from you, but because we will sit and look at this print together and you'll tell me what you want different and I'll make another print exactly like that. -Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Film development
Subject: Re: Film development > Eduardo wrote: > > > Something on your explanations is puzzling me: Most minilabs have a machine > > that has a built in software that sets automatic compensation figures for > > each kind of print film, right? the minute you start working with the > > negatives, it will select those default values indicated by the software, > > regardless of how precise or not the photographer was when pressing the > > shutter? > > > If that's the case, what's the point of all that discussion about > > learning to precise "read" light with the zone system or even a spotmeter? > > You won't get what you read, anyway... ;-) Or am I just getting more > > confused? The printer channel is corrected to a reference standard negative set, usually called a "Shirley", so named because that was the name of the Kodak employee who was pulled off the floor to pose for the photo. A Shirley is composed of 3 to 5 negatives, representing correct exposure (according to ISO standard measuring protocols), -2 stops, and +3 stops for a 3 negative set, or adding in -4 stops and/or +5 stops in some negtive sets. A basic integrating printer measures the diffuse colour and density of the negative and sets the filtration and exposure needed to get it to give the same colour and density of a standard negative (Shirley). In a scanning printer, the colour is still set up to give correct colour from the Shirley. However, there are more measurements being taken by the machine for determining exposure and filtration. Now a video camera is looking at the negative and sending a bitmap image to the computer, which tries to figure out what it is a picture of, based on a pre programmed algorithm, Some machines just take density into account, some take both colour and density into account. The ones that are just looking at density are still using basic tri-colour integration for the colour settings. To set the printer up correctly, you must have a Shirley for each film type you will be printing. The knowedgable printer learns what his machine is going to do to certain negatives and scene types and compensates accordingly. He or she will also play the averages, by second guessing the photographer, in some instances. An example: I see a negative that will give lovely colour if I subtract some cyan filtration to make the print more red, and add some density to make the colours pop. I decide that this will make a lovely sunset photo and print it accordingly. Unfortunately, I miss seeing the 3 stop under exposed bride and groom in front of the palm tree on the beach that was the actual subject of the photo. Hmmm, I just printed that negative at +3, when the I should have printed it -3, as far as the customer is concerned. Why is it that photographers expect perfect prints when they have given absolutely no instruction to the printer about what they want from the print? Why is the lab suddenly butchering the job when it doesn't get the picture exactly right the first time? Sometimes we are really busy. Somtimes we just don't have time to look. Sometimes we have the time, and still don't know what the hell you were taking a picture of. Base your judgement of the lab on how it treats your film and how it handles POLITE requests for redos if the colour or density isn't what you want. If you are going to be a jerk at the counter, expect to get your work treated accordingly. A secondary consideration is how much they are charging. You have a right to expect more from someone who is charging more. This doesn't mean they will necessarily get the print right the first time every time, but they should be willing to go the extra mile to make the print right for you. If you go with the cheapest job available you may get just that. It is a crap shoot. You may get a good lab, or you may get one that is not as good in any case. Regarding careful metering: If you give the lab a properly exposed negative, I can give you a good print. It may take a couple of tries sometimes, but it can happen. If you give me a poorly exposed negative, it doesn't matter what I do, your final print will reflect your sloppy photography. William Robb Remember, the LX Gallery is coming up. Please see: http://pug.komkon.org/LX_Gallery/LX_Submit.html for more information. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Film development
> I sometimes gloss over important facts that I take for granted, so > please keep askin' questions if my explanation is still befuddling > you...it's probably because of the way I'm explaining. :) > > -Aaron Thanks, Aaron! Your explanations is very helpful. Don't worry about taking important facts for granted... Since I still think your explanation was perfect, I wouldn't be ready for them, anyway.. ;-) Eduardo. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Film development
Eduardo wrote: > Something on your explanations is puzzling me: Most minilabs have a machine > that has a built in software that sets automatic compensation figures for > each kind of print film, right? the minute you start working with the > negatives, it will select those default values indicated by the software, > regardless of how precise or not the photographer was when pressing the > shutter? > If that's the case, what's the point of all that discussion about > learning to precise "read" light with the zone system or even a spotmeter? > You won't get what you read, anyway... ;-) Or am I just getting more > confused? Well, it comes down to this: You have to get sufficient/proper exposure as you are shooting the photo so there is *something on the film* that the machine printer can butcher up and/or perform arcane mystical abominations upon during the printing process. ;^) - Bill D. Casselberry ; Photography on the Oregon Coast http://www.orednet.org/~bcasselb [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Film development
"Eduardo Carone Costa Jr." wrote:
> If leaving the "N" alone will not do the trick for that situation I
> described in my original post ("When I take my films
> to the lab I usually end up with a grainny photo and the subject in the
> foreground is not as dark as I wanted it to be. I assume they are using the
> negative film's greater latitude than slide's to compensate for the
> darker --- but on purpose --- exposure."), what can I do?
In this case, the lab should be printing "+" more on those specific
images. Most labs print to give you the most detail, so rich blacks
are, as a rule, printed up grey and wishy washy to show those
details...they are assuming that your flash didn't go off, or that you
want to see the detail in the face of the person that's silhouetted or
something like this, because there are people out there who will
complain about it. Trust me. All you can do is develop a relationship
with your lab, particularly the person printing: let them know that you
like those images printed "right", and let them know what your
intentions were. And if you don't like the first print, most places
(most good places, anyways) will make the print over for you at no extra charge.
> Make sure that I
> shoot at least three stops under the values indicated by the cameras
> centerweight meter, so the machine won't be able to "compensate" and the
> printer will probably know that I want the scene to be darker?
Nope, it'll still compensate. Your image will be worse: you'll lose
more detail.
> Something on your explanations is puzzling me: Most minilabs have a machine
> that has a built in software that sets automatic compensation figures for
> each kind of print film, right? the minute you start working with the
> negatives, it will select those default values indicated by the software,
> regardless of how precise or not the photographer was when pressing the
> shutter? If that's the case, what's the point of all that discussion about
> learning to precise "read" light with the zone system or even a spotmeter?
> You won't get what you read, anyway... ;-) Or am I just getting more
> confused?
It's not a default from the software, completely. There is a default
starting point for each film, programmed by the lab based on setup negs
(or guesswork, depending on how cheap the lab is ;) ). From this, the
machine makes a judgement on how long to expose the neg for based on an
exposure reading of light coming through the neg. You can't have an
absolute reading for a number of reasons, one of the biggest of which is
that the amount of light and colour of the light coming from the lamp
will change to a certain extent every day and even during the day: the
bulb changes colour as it gets hotter and colder, and emits more light
or less depending on age, temperature, how long it's been on already
today, and even minor fluctuations in voltage coming from the wall. In
a high-speed situation, which a minilab is, minor changes can cause
massive differences in the results. One one-hundredth of a second isn't
much exposure time...unless your exposure is only a tenth of a second
long, in which case it's ten percent.
Anyhow, as to the second part: if your exposure is precise, a good,
precise, perfect print can be made from it. If it's not, you might be
able to get a pretty good print, maybe even an excellent one, but never
a perfect one.
I sometimes gloss over important facts that I take for granted, so
please keep askin' questions if my explanation is still befuddling
you...it's probably because of the way I'm explaining. :)
-Aaron
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Re: Film development
Earlier today, Aaron Reynolds wrote:
>This is a very common misconception. The Ns do not represent pure,
>unaltered exposure; rather they indicate that no correction has been
>made to the machine's automatic reading of the neg. Thus, getting a
>roll printed all Ns means that the machine will do auto exposure on your
>negs and no one will fix it if the machine can't tell that your image is
>perhaps mostly dark or mostly light. A perfectly exposed night scene,
>for instance, when printed on N becomes a wishy-washy grey-brown too
>light mess.
>
>Think of those + and - as exposure compensation on your camera when
>you're in program mode...that's how these printers all work. Same for
>colour, too...a picture of mostly blue sky, printed all Ns on the colour
>channels, will probably come out on the yellowy side. Some printers
>have more sophisticated exposure programs, particularly the newer ones,
>making deviation from the N less and less neccessary, but that still
>does not make N the "correct" or "normal" exposure.
>
>Be happy that you have a lab that DOES deviate from the Ns...that means
>they have a printer who knows something who's trying to make your prints
>look good!
First of all, thanks for pointing this misconception.
If leaving the "N" alone will not do the trick for that situation I
described in my original post ("When I take my films
to the lab I usually end up with a grainny photo and the subject in the
foreground is not as dark as I wanted it to be. I assume they are using the
negative film's greater latitude than slide's to compensate for the
darker --- but on purpose --- exposure."), what can I do? Make sure that I
shoot at least three stops under the values indicated by the cameras
centerweight meter, so the machine won't be able to "compensate" and the
printer will probably know that I want the scene to be darker?
Something on your explanations is puzzling me: Most minilabs have a machine
that has a built in software that sets automatic compensation figures for
each kind of print film, right? the minute you start working with the
negatives, it will select those default values indicated by the software,
regardless of how precise or not the photographer was when pressing the
shutter? If that's the case, what's the point of all that discussion about
learning to precise "read" light with the zone system or even a spotmeter?
You won't get what you read, anyway... ;-) Or am I just getting more
confused?
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Re: Film development
On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 10:29:00PM -0300, Eduardo Carone Costa Júnior wrote: > Hi everybody, > > All these comments about learning how to make better photos and light did > encourage me to ask for your advice about this --- perhaps > naive ---situation: > > Sometimes I try make a scene look a bit darker, I mean, like a sunset where > you can only distinguish the contours of the subject in the foreground, and > I set the exposure accordingly. At this time, I use only negative film, B&W > or color, and I don't do my own developing or printing. When I take my films > to the lab I usually end up with a grainny photo and the subject in the > foreground is not as dark as I wanted it to be. I assume they are using the > negative film's greater latitude than slide's to compensate for the > darker --- but on purpose --- exposure. > > Is there a kind of instruction I can give the lab to avoid this problem? > Something like "don't compensate exposure"? I guess it depends on how "profesional" your lab is. In my experience, most "consumer-grade" photolabs are reluctant to turn-off compensation, because, as some of the have explained to me, some machines can't do it. I, in my opinion, think that that is one of the main advantages of printing your own black and white: you get complete control and if anything goes wrong, it's only you to blame. (Assuming that the guys at Kodak, Ilford or wherever have done their job right.) I've recently been trying slide film, partly because I don't have a darkroom at the moment. I don't like slides so much because I prefer prints (the physical presentation as opposed to the film), but I do like the control you get. But I think I still miss black and white: I somehow can't "see" photographs in colour. Frank. -- Francis Tang, Postgraduate Research Student, LFCS, Edinburgh. Visiting: AG14, Mathematik, TU Darmstadt, Deutschland. Tel: +49 174/3545241 (D2 Voda) ZNr: 2d/215 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/fhlt/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Film development
> Is there a kind of instruction I can give the lab to avoid this problem? > Something like "don't compensate exposure"? Yep, the very few times I've used a place like Wolf photo, I've said exactly that: "don't compensate exposure". j -- --- Juan J. Buhler | Sr. FX Animator @ PDI | Photos at http://www.jbuhler.com --- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
At 08:29 8.2.2001 -0700, you wrote: >decide which negs to have printed at the pro lab. Yesterday I sent a 120 >B/W neg to the lab to have printed on the Fuji Frontier system (10x10 @ >$8.50) that does so nicely on my color transparencies. The counter person >advised that I may not like the results because it would be printed on color >paper, but since it was just a test I would go ahead and try it. I am also >having another, similar B/W neg, custom printed (10x10 @ $14.00 USD). I >will be interested in how the two compare. >Jerry in Houston Jerry, please let us know how the B&W looks from the Frontier system! If they work right (you should better have them printed Sepia or other tone outright from start, I guess that colour paper isn't much good at neutral B&W tones), it would be a pleasant alternative for times when doing it home is not possible but prints are needed. I guess the results will depend a lot on skill of the operator - I had some great results and big failures on same machine from diff. people operating it. Let us know! Frantisek - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
Jerry in Houston wrote: > My wife is a photography student at a college in > Houston but it is way too far to go just to develop a few rolls of film, so > we do our negs at home. Once you finalize on your film and developer > combinations it becomes quite simple even though we can only load the > cannisters at night...a changing bag is in the budget Jerry, Good for you! It's a lot easier than most people realize. People think it's tough to develop film without a darkroom, but it's not hard at all. I've had access to darkrooms most of my adult life, but I've always developed film at the kitchen sink. All you need is a dark place to load the film, as you've discovered. For the last three years my "loading room" has been...my bedroom closet. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
The only dedicated piece we have is a double Paterson developing tank (about $20 and a second 35mm reel for $7 at B&H). The only other specialized item would be a simple dial thermometer for a few bucks. I use a thermocouple on my VOM which I already had. I use commonly available 1 and 2 liter plastic soda bottles to keep my stock chemicals inand a cheap plastic funnel. I use a liquid single shot developer (Ilfosol S) mixed 1:9. Kodak Indicator Stop Bath, Kodak Quick Fixer, Hypoclear, and photoflo. I mix all chemicals with distilled water. I work at the kitchen sink and use the timer on my microwave and rinse using the kitchen sink. Between use I keep everything in a dark closet. I use plastic clothes pins to hang up the negs in the bathroom to dry (least dusty place in the house). Then cut em and put em in polyethylene sheets. Right now we have to load the can at night in the back bathroom but then you can develop it whenever you want. We are planning on getting a large changing bag soon which would let us load the can anytime we want. Jerry in Houston -Original Message- From: Dan Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet Hi Jerry, What was your initial investment? Dan Scott (in San Antonio) [EMAIL PROTECTED] >I think that Mike is exactly right. We live in an apartment and do not have >any darkroom capability. My wife is a photography student at a college in >Houston but it is way too far to go just to develop a few rolls of film, so >we do our negs at home. Once you finalize on your film and developer >combinations it becomes quite simple even though we can only load the >cannisters at night...a changing bag is in the budget. I use Ilford almost >exclusively, Ilfosol S because it is a liquid, single shot, and works great >with my choices of Ilford B/W films. After developing, cutting, and storing >the negs I look at them on a light box using an 8X loupe. From this I >decide which negs to have printed at the pro lab. Yesterday I sent a 120 >B/W neg to the lab to have printed on the Fuji Frontier system (10x10 @ >$8.50) that does so nicely on my color transparencies. The counter person >advised that I may not like the results because it would be printed on color >paper, but since it was just a test I would go ahead and try it. I am also >having another, similar B/W neg, custom printed (10x10 @ $14.00 USD). I >will be interested in how the two compare. > >Jerry in Houston - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
Dan Scott wondered: > You can also very easily do you own proof sheet using a lamp > and a couple of trays in the bathroom. it's really fairly easy, Dan. In the dark, you lay out your paper and put the negs (in a sleeve page) over it and cover w/ a piece of clean glass to flatten everything out. Then turn on a modest wattage light bulb above this sandwich. There are various ways to determine the optimal time for the light to be on, but I have found one of the "density wedge" gizmos from Kodak to be easy & sufficient. It's just a plastic piece w/ varying densities arranged in a "pie- shape" - so you expose for 1 minute (or multiples/fractions thereof) and read the # of seconds off the wedge that has the best exposure. You'll need three plastic containers big enuf to hold your paper (lots to choose from in department stores) and some Dektol, Stop & Fixer. Rinse 'em off in the tub in another larger platic gizmo. costs are actually very low for home development. Just need to get developer, stop, fixer & I like to use hypo-clear to speed the washing stage. most any continer will do for storage if kept in a dark closet. A small 2-reel developing tank, any clock w/ a second hand and a decent thermometer which covers the 68-85 degF range is a big plus, worth picking up even an overpriced one at a photostore. remember, we measure the *developer* temperature, not just the ambient air temperature ;^) - Bill D. Casselberry ; Photography on the Oregon Coast http://www.orednet.org/~bcasselb [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
Simple version. You need two trays, a light bulb (60W), glass from an 8x10 picture frame, darkroom light bulb, paper developer and fixer. Put the negs in one of those archive sleeves, lay the glass over the top, turn on the dark room light, slide a piece of 8x10 paper under the negs, hold the light bulb a feet over the negs, turn on the light for about 10 seconds (might have to play with the time), throw the paper in the developer, then fixer, wash and voila a contact sheet Norm - Original Message - From: Dan Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet > Hi Norm, > > How do you do that? > > Dan Scott > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >You can also very easily do you own proof sheet using a lamp and a couple of > >trays in the bathroom. Then view the sheets instead of the negs or both. You > >can get a better idea of your final print that way before you spend the > >money at the pro lab. > >Norm > >From: Lewis, Gerald > >> After developing, cutting, and storing > >> the negs I look at them on a light box using an 8X loupe. From this I > >> decide which negs to have printed at the pro lab. > > > >- > >This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > >go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > >visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > > > > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > > - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
We have thought about this but so far we have not found it necessary..also makes me a better reader of negatives, I think? It may yet happen.. Jerry -Original Message- From: Norman Baugher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet You can also very easily do you own proof sheet using a lamp and a couple of trays in the bathroom. Then view the sheets instead of the negs or both. You can get a better idea of your final print that way before you spend the money at the pro lab. Norm From: Lewis, Gerald > After developing, cutting, and storing > the negs I look at them on a light box using an 8X loupe. From this I > decide which negs to have printed at the pro lab. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
You can also very easily do you own proof sheet using a lamp and a couple of trays in the bathroom. Then view the sheets instead of the negs or both. You can get a better idea of your final print that way before you spend the money at the pro lab. Norm From: Lewis, Gerald > After developing, cutting, and storing > the negs I look at them on a light box using an 8X loupe. From this I > decide which negs to have printed at the pro lab. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
I think that Mike is exactly right. We live in an apartment and do not have any darkroom capability. My wife is a photography student at a college in Houston but it is way too far to go just to develop a few rolls of film, so we do our negs at home. Once you finalize on your film and developer combinations it becomes quite simple even though we can only load the cannisters at night...a changing bag is in the budget. I use Ilford almost exclusively, Ilfosol S because it is a liquid, single shot, and works great with my choices of Ilford B/W films. After developing, cutting, and storing the negs I look at them on a light box using an 8X loupe. From this I decide which negs to have printed at the pro lab. Yesterday I sent a 120 B/W neg to the lab to have printed on the Fuji Frontier system (10x10 @ $8.50) that does so nicely on my color transparencies. The counter person advised that I may not like the results because it would be printed on color paper, but since it was just a test I would go ahead and try it. I am also having another, similar B/W neg, custom printed (10x10 @ $14.00 USD). I will be interested in how the two compare. Jerry in Houston -Original Message- From: Mike Johnston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet Mark Sheftick wrote: > I have a quick question. I had some T-Max 400 (24 exp) developed and got a > contact sheet made but no prints. It was US$ 11.00 before any taxes. I was > wondering if this is a normal cost for something like this. I guess, > compared to the $8.00 most places charge for C-41 and one or two sets of > prints, I was a little disappointed at what I got for my money. > > This of course is not to mention the fact that I had to go in 3 times to get > it because the first two times someone apparently just forgot to develop my > film. > > Please let me know if I should look around based on cost. I may be looking > around based on service regardless. Mark, That's about par for the course. You may find this service for as low as $9, but seldom much lower, at least in the areas of the US I'm familiar with. The problem is that very few labs have automated lines for B&W. It has to be done by hand, and there's no money in it for the labs. No steady business, either. You can do it better and much more cheaply yourself. I once calculated everything out very exactly, and figured that it cost me $2.11 per roll and 21 minutes of my time per roll for developing and proofing six rolls, doing 2 tanks of 3 rolls each. It's a little over 2 hours total for developing the film, cutting the film after it dries, and making the proofs. That's been a few years, and your methods wouldn't exactly duplicate mine, but you can see that $12.66 is quite a bit cheaper than $66, presuming you can spare the two hours. I just used to do the work while watching sports on TV on the weekends. It's "wasted" time anyway. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
I'd argue with Mike's comment about there not being any steady business in b&w, at least around here. Black and white seems to be having a bit of a comeback (thanks probably to products like T400CN), and people seem to be wanting to experiment with other stuff now. I know a couple of labs in Toronto that do a great business processing nothing but black and white film. I myself have considered it a couple of times. Black and white is pricey because, yes, it is labor intensive. It is possible to set up a minilab-style operation for b&w, but the results are generally poor for a couple of reasons: 1) processing times-- in a minilab-style operation, you will have no or next to no variation in processing time, leading to wildly varying results from film to film (and probably none of them great); 2) contrast control in printing-- there are machines that print using MC filters and RC papers, or at least there were...I haven't seen any in operation in ages. The only places I know that supply good b&w prints are making them by hand, and by hand means expensive. My price for a single black and white print from a negative never drops below $6, regardless of size, because I'm going to spend that same ten or twenty minutes in the darkroom making a 1x2 inch print as I would making a 5x7, and the paper cost only varies by 10 cents or so. It's all about the time. I've recently found out that I'm relatively cheap when it comes to b&w compared to the local competition, and I'm charging $5 processing for a 24 and $6 for a 36, and then another $7 for a contact on top of that. One of the other labs is charging $7 for a 36 and $11 for the contact! Maybe I'll raise my prices. :) -Aaron who spent all day in the darkroom yesterday as a bit of antidote to his recent digital overdose - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Average cost of B+W film development and contact sheet
Mark Sheftick wrote: > I have a quick question. I had some T-Max 400 (24 exp) developed and got a > contact sheet made but no prints. It was US$ 11.00 before any taxes. I was > wondering if this is a normal cost for something like this. I guess, > compared to the $8.00 most places charge for C-41 and one or two sets of > prints, I was a little disappointed at what I got for my money. > > This of course is not to mention the fact that I had to go in 3 times to get > it because the first two times someone apparently just forgot to develop my > film. > > Please let me know if I should look around based on cost. I may be looking > around based on service regardless. Mark, That's about par for the course. You may find this service for as low as $9, but seldom much lower, at least in the areas of the US I'm familiar with. The problem is that very few labs have automated lines for B&W. It has to be done by hand, and there's no money in it for the labs. No steady business, either. You can do it better and much more cheaply yourself. I once calculated everything out very exactly, and figured that it cost me $2.11 per roll and 21 minutes of my time per roll for developing and proofing six rolls, doing 2 tanks of 3 rolls each. It's a little over 2 hours total for developing the film, cutting the film after it dries, and making the proofs. That's been a few years, and your methods wouldn't exactly duplicate mine, but you can see that $12.66 is quite a bit cheaper than $66, presuming you can spare the two hours. I just used to do the work while watching sports on TV on the weekends. It's "wasted" time anyway. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
