RE: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: I wasn't entirely sure whether or not to shit myself. Skidmark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Doug Franklin jehosep...@mindspring.com wrote: On 2010-02-07 16:59, mike wilson wrote: I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. I had a Delta pilot do that years ago, leaving Ft. Lauderdale. The air was thin because it was high summer, and the plane was loaded to the gills. We didn't move after we got to 3rd in line. The pilot counted down as the other planes left. Then told us we were next. About fifteen seconds later he comes on the intercom to say Y! Ha! and slammed the throttles to (through?) the firewall. We made the 180* turn from the taxiway to the runway at what felt like 40 knots, and we still needed every flappin' inch of runway available. It was the most fun I've ever had on a takeoff. :-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) There's nothing quite like taking off from a 3000 foot strip on a hot mid-afternoon in high summer at 6000 feet ASL in an aircraft significantly larger than the one you crashed in on takeoff from the same small strip 3 hours before due to running out of runway. Luckily for me, the small aircraft was a Piper Apache (chronically underpowered) and the large a DHC-5 Buffalo (which has extreme STOL performance) -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
Stan Halpin wrote: I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
mike wilson wrote: Stan Halpin wrote: I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. Don't know how I stumbled onto this a few weeks ago, but I did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 09:59:36PM +, mike wilson wrote: Stan Halpin wrote: I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. I've had that on a commercial US flight. We'd missed our regular takeoff slot, but the pilot was told he could use the second (normally landing) runway if he was quick - there was just enough time before an incoming flight was due. He did all the pre-flight checks on the taxiway, then lit it up, zipped out onto the runway, and off we went. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 05:12:08PM -0500, Mark Roberts wrote: mike wilson wrote: Stan Halpin wrote: I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. Don't know how I stumbled onto this a few weeks ago, but I did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE That's Hong Kong for you. Just enough runway to operate a Jumbo, and mountains that prevent a traditional straight-on approach. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
I was told a long time ago by a pilot that this manuever was'forbidden' by FAA rules. Kenneth Waller http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: John Francis jo...@panix.com Subject: Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I) On Sun, Feb 07, 2010 at 09:59:36PM +, mike wilson wrote: Stan Halpin wrote: I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. I've had that on a commercial US flight. We'd missed our regular takeoff slot, but the pilot was told he could use the second (normally landing) runway if he was quick - there was just enough time before an incoming flight was due. He did all the pre-flight checks on the taxiway, then lit it up, zipped out onto the runway, and off we went. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. Don't know how I stumbled onto this a few weeks ago, but I did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE When I was a kid and we used to fly in and out of Gibraltar, Britain and Spain were still arguing about who owned the rock. Franco had closed the border and wouldn't allow British planes over Spanish airspace, so flights had to make a similar peculiar manoeuvre to land and take off in a way that avoided breaching their air space. It was a similar runway too, sticking out into the sea. Not jumbos though. On one flight we hit an air pocket during the strange turn and dropped quite a long way before the pilot figured out what to do. That was pretty scary and we had to be diverted to Tangiers for the night. You haven't lived until you've seen an aircraft full of people vomiting in unison. Flying out of Gatwick this afternoon we waited a long time on the taxi-way for another flight to come in and land before ours turned onto the main runway. I was watching it coming in and it appeared to be aiming straight for us - I wasn't entirely sure whether or not to shit myself. In the end I didn't, which is a good job really because the incoming plane missed us by probably as much as 100 ft. It literally rocked the plane I was in as it came over. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On 2010-02-07 16:59, mike wilson wrote: I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. I had a Delta pilot do that years ago, leaving Ft. Lauderdale. The air was thin because it was high summer, and the plane was loaded to the gills. We didn't move after we got to 3rd in line. The pilot counted down as the other planes left. Then told us we were next. About fifteen seconds later he comes on the intercom to say Y! Ha! and slammed the throttles to (through?) the firewall. We made the 180* turn from the taxiway to the runway at what felt like 40 knots, and we still needed every flappin' inch of runway available. It was the most fun I've ever had on a takeoff. :-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Feb 7, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Doug Franklin wrote: On 2010-02-07 16:59, mike wilson wrote: I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. I had a Delta pilot do that years ago, leaving Ft. Lauderdale. The air was thin because it was high summer, and the plane was loaded to the gills. We didn't move after we got to 3rd in line. The pilot counted down as the other planes left. Then told us we were next. About fifteen seconds later he comes on the intercom to say Y! Ha! and slammed the throttles to (through?) the firewall. We made the 180* turn from the taxiway to the runway at what felt like 40 knots, and we still needed every flappin' inch of runway available. It was the most fun I've ever had on a takeoff. :-) The closest I've come to that was doing a donut in a pulse jet powered go-kart. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
That _was_ Hong Kong - the new airport at Chek Lap Kok has a very modern runway and terminal system: now the approach is almost boringly normal. The most fun I had in a commercial flight was a four-seater domestic flight in Australia, where the destination was beneath 100% cloud. The pilot flew forty minutes on dead-reckoning at 9800 feet, then, knowing the only mount in the region was 1800 feet one mile from the destination runway, dropped down to 2500 and cruised around looking for a break in the cloud. After ten minutes circling, he found one and we went down it like in an elevator! Popped out under the cloud two miles from the runway and only a few degrees off the glide path... John in Brisbane -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John Francis Sent: Monday, 8 February 2010 8:29 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I) Don't know how I stumbled onto this a few weeks ago, but I did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE That's Hong Kong for you. Just enough runway to operate a Jumbo, and mountains that prevent a traditional straight-on approach. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
This Russian pilot must have wished he had a taxiway entrance at the runway's end for a little extra takeoff run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZGXwbPfwQs He backtracked all the way down the runway, and still almost ran out of tarmac. regards, Anthony Of what use is lens and light to those who lack in mind and sight (Anon) On 8 February 2010 08:59, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: Stan Halpin wrote: I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
'Tis amazing to me how airports attract videographers. On an earlier excursion into YouTube I saw a number of shots of planes landing on the (constrained) runway in Sint Maarteen. [A Dutch/French island in the Caribbean.] Fortunately this was after I had flown in and out of that airport. There is a 30-40 foot stretch of sandy beach just beyond the fence that is just beyond the end of the runway, so it is quite easy to stand directly beneath the very final approach. Many decades ago, as a teen I lived in La Paz Bolivia. The airport was above the city, on the edge of the Altiplano. It was not paved. It was not level. It was at 13,000+ altitude. Fortunately the wind was seldom a factor as the preferred takeoff was to start at the higher end of the runway, accelerate downhill. (Incoming flights landed uphill.) My sense is that if you couldn't get airborne by the end of the runway, you'd drop off the edge of the plateau and have a chance of gaining sufficient airspeed to be able to recover as you dove. I don't think that ever actually happened. All three Bolivian airforce planes used that airport, and during one of the revolutions I watched them from our porch, taking off, strafing a part of the city, then returning to the airport. Ah, those were the days. stan On Feb 7, 2010, at 11:14 PM, Anthony Farr wrote: This Russian pilot must have wished he had a taxiway entrance at the runway's end for a little extra takeoff run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZGXwbPfwQs He backtracked all the way down the runway, and still almost ran out of tarmac. regards, Anthony Of what use is lens and light to those who lack in mind and sight (Anon) On 8 February 2010 08:59, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: Stan Halpin wrote: I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. I've had a pilot (Aeroflot) start his takeoff accelleration during the turn onto the runway. Until you've felt the tyres of an airliner scrubbing sideways, you haven't lived. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
- Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I) Example - what if I bring my camera to the local camera store in Regina, SK. I tell them I can't get the histogram to display properly and the camera picks it own focus point. The tall bald man with the mustache behind the counter brings out the manual and shows it to me saying See it's your fault, you sniveling low-life excuse for a tapeworm. Next time read the manual and go crawl back up in the butthole you came from if you can find it. You'd actually be called a f#cking little wanker for that. We are a little more direct with our language on the praries.. Actually, one of the things that keeps counter sales people busy is showing customers how to use their cameras. For some reason, no one has ever really read their owners manuals. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
2010/2/6 Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info: [eloquence snipped] Air travel may be frustrating, but the airlines still have a lot of good service-oriented people working for them who try and make the experience as painless as possible. That's just _so_ true. Most of my travels are to and fro London Heathrow, where the ground crew has, occasionally, received a lot of pepper. In my experience, however, they are really just trying their best to keep the flow of passengers run through with as little turbulence as possible. I'll never forget the great and professional service I received when going home on the 21. July 2005, 12 hours after the terror attack on the London Tube. Those guy and gals there are really trying to make the best of a sometimes awful job. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
2010/2/6 John Francis jo...@panix.com: I must admit I've stretched the rules myself - my Pelican 1510 case qualifies as a carry-on on most airlines, and I regularly flew with that and my computer bag. While technically within the rules, it does push them to the extremes. But I'm not really prepared to hand either pieces of equipment over to baggage handlers if I can avoid it. Sometimes it's unavoidable - the 250-600 has to go in the hold - but generally the one bag + one item such as a computer or camera is enough. hehe. You wouldn't believe the hand luggage I got away with to Argentina and back... It fit the volume restrictions, with a squeeze. This is what it contained: 1 K-7 1 K-7 w/grip DA 14mm, DA 21, FA 77, DA* 300, FA* 600, DA* 60-250, DA* 16-50, 14 laptop, 3 additional portable harddrives Sony eBook reader Chargers, cables mouse. A gore-tex jacket. I was damn lucky noone wanted to know the weight of the thing... Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On 2/6/2010 6:54 AM, William Robb wrote:
- Original Message - From: Tom C
Subject: Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
Example - what if I bring my camera to the local camera store in
Regina, SK. I tell them I can't get the histogram to display properly
and the camera picks it own focus point. The tall bald man with the
mustache behind the counter brings out the manual and shows it to me
saying See it's your fault, you sniveling low-life excuse for a
tapeworm. Next time read the manual and go crawl back up in the
butthole you came from if you can find it.
You'd actually be called a f#cking little wanker for that.
We are a little more direct with our language on the praries..
Actually, one of the things that keeps counter sales people busy is
showing customers how to use their cameras. For some reason, no one
has ever really read their owners manuals.
If POWs were requred to read most owners manuals it would be be against
the Geneva Convention, and those aren't even the ones translated into
English from the Japanese by Chinese who' s only western language is German.
William Robb
--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
interface subtly weird.\par
}
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Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 4:54 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote: Example - what if I bring my camera to the local camera store in Regina, SK. I tell them I can't get the histogram to display properly and the camera picks it own focus point. The tall bald man with the mustache behind the counter brings out the manual and shows it to me saying See it's your fault, you sniveling low-life excuse for a tapeworm. Next time read the manual and go crawl back up in the butthole you came from if you can find it. You'd actually be called a f#cking little wanker for that. We are a little more direct with our language on the praries.. Thank you. Kind sir. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
A point that Tom also conveniently ignores, when assigning blame, is that THE AIRLINE has to sell a product people will buy. As the great American public has consistently demonstrated, they will buy the product at the cheapest price point, no matter what other drawbacks there are. That means that THE AIRLINE will do everything it can to keep the base price down, even if this means add-on fees for checked baggage. That same spirit of cheapness is why people will try and bring on too many (or too large) carry-on items - they aren't prepared to pay an extra $10 for comfort, and so they make everybody else suffer. But I would certainly hate to be the agent that had to tell the worst abusers that they couldn't take *that* on board. I have to disagree with that analysis, in part. Of course people want things at the cheapest price point, but they also realize that prices do go up. What people don't want to do is pay an EXTRA fee for something that for the last 60 years appeared to be FREE. The smart thing for the airlines to have done is to increase ticket prices by $10/$20 for every single passenger, a hidden luggage fee. Prices go up from time-to-time anyway. Everyone would be paying for checked luggage, whether they checked it or not, and most people would not even notice unless it pushed the price upward of an even $100 or $200. On higher priced tickets it would go virtually unnoticed. The airlines would have come out ahead, they would not have to handle the additional burden of an additional transaction, credit card processing, software changes, every single thing with regard to luggage would have stayed the same. Many people would still check their luggage, and overhead bins would be less crowded. Tom -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: [SPAM] Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:54 AM, William Robb wrote: You'd actually be called a f#cking little wanker for that. The planned parenthood poster child. We are a little more direct with our language on the praries.. Actually, one of the things that keeps counter sales people busy is showing customers how to use their cameras. For some reason, no one has ever really read their owners manuals. I don't know about other brands of cameras, but the Pentax owners manuals are absolute shite. I've read mine, multiple times, and the only documentation I've found less useful is that from Apple. The manuals seem to be aimed at second graders that barely know which end of a camera to look through, and barely cover when the features might be useful, without saying a word about what they actually do. They might be OK for someone that doesn't know their aperture from a hole in the ground who is happy dropping a kilobuck on a large, heavy point and shoot, but woe betides the person who is actually trying to learn to use a camera from the user manual. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: [SPAM] Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
Mark! Lary Colen wrote: They might be OK for someone that doesn't know their aperture from a hole in the ground... I have to say in a childish way, this is doubly funny. Tom On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Feb 6, 2010, at 3:54 AM, William Robb wrote: You'd actually be called a f#cking little wanker for that. The planned parenthood poster child. We are a little more direct with our language on the praries.. Actually, one of the things that keeps counter sales people busy is showing customers how to use their cameras. For some reason, no one has ever really read their owners manuals. I don't know about other brands of cameras, but the Pentax owners manuals are absolute shite. I've read mine, multiple times, and the only documentation I've found less useful is that from Apple. The manuals seem to be aimed at second graders that barely know which end of a camera to look through, and barely cover when the features might be useful, without saying a word about what they actually do. They might be OK for someone that doesn't know their aperture from a hole in the ground who is happy dropping a kilobuck on a large, heavy point and shoot, but woe betides the person who is actually trying to learn to use a camera from the user manual. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 12:03:49PM -0700, Tom C wrote: I have to disagree with that analysis, in part. Of course people want things at the cheapest price point, but they also realize that prices do go up. What people don't want to do is pay an EXTRA fee for something that for the last 60 years appeared to be FREE. The smart thing for the airlines to have done is to increase ticket prices by $10/$20 for every single passenger, a hidden luggage fee. Prices go up from time-to-time anyway. Unfortunately that aproach doesn't work of routes with more than one choice of airline. Easy consumer access to sites such as Travelocity or Expedia lets potential customers see the price for each carrier. As soon as one airline finds a way to lower the base price for a route by any means (usually by dropping some basic amenity), the other airlines all seem to respond with lower prices in a very short time - something they would not need to do if customers were prepared to pay extra for the amenity in question. But the single biggest factor that seems to determine how well an airline does in selling seats is the price it charges for each seat - price trumps everything else. This all gets complicated by the variable pricing strategy used to sell airline tickets - the airline's goal is to fill all the seats at the highest price for each seat, so the price will go up as the plane gets fuller, and down if there are too many empty seats left. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
I've long thought that if airlines simply sold seats based upon what it REALLY cost them to fly, instead of giving $100 flights cross-country and charging somestimes an additional $300/$400 to fly the last 150 mile leg of a trip, they'd be better off. On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 12:51 PM, John Francis jo...@panix.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 12:03:49PM -0700, Tom C wrote: I have to disagree with that analysis, in part. Of course people want things at the cheapest price point, but they also realize that prices do go up. What people don't want to do is pay an EXTRA fee for something that for the last 60 years appeared to be FREE. The smart thing for the airlines to have done is to increase ticket prices by $10/$20 for every single passenger, a hidden luggage fee. Prices go up from time-to-time anyway. Unfortunately that aproach doesn't work of routes with more than one choice of airline. Easy consumer access to sites such as Travelocity or Expedia lets potential customers see the price for each carrier. As soon as one airline finds a way to lower the base price for a route by any means (usually by dropping some basic amenity), the other airlines all seem to respond with lower prices in a very short time - something they would not need to do if customers were prepared to pay extra for the amenity in question. But the single biggest factor that seems to determine how well an airline does in selling seats is the price it charges for each seat - price trumps everything else. This all gets complicated by the variable pricing strategy used to sell airline tickets - the airline's goal is to fill all the seats at the highest price for each seat, so the price will go up as the plane gets fuller, and down if there are too many empty seats left. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 12:59:43PM -0700, Tom C wrote: I've long thought that if airlines simply sold seats based upon what it REALLY cost them to fly, instead of giving $100 flights cross-country and charging somestimes an additional $300/$400 to fly the last 150 mile leg of a trip, they'd be better off. Actually, to a large extent, they are. That $300/$400 is close to the true cost of providing service to the feeder airport - often on a regional jet or some other configuration with few high-priced (business/first-class) seats. All the overhead has to be covered by a small number of daily flights. The $100 cross-country seat is an attempt to fill excess capacity on a route which already has far more daily customers paying the regular price (not to mention the airline target demographic - the business and first class customers), flying between airports which amortise the overhead over a larger route network. The regular price for that seat could well be $400, but it's cheaper to sell 10% of the seats at $100 than it is to fly with empty seats. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Tom C wrote: I've heard this .. 'The number one reason for late departures is because travelers delay departure by not handling their carryon items properly.' WHAT??? The CUSTOMER is responsible for late departures? Who decided to change their policy and charge an exhorbitant fee to check luggage, so that now 70% of the passengers bring the larger carrier on bags into the passenger compartment? THE AIRLINE. ... I travel frequently, my wife has been logging 1600+ miles per week for over two years now. We have friends who are (former) executives at airlines, friends who are current or former pilots for major airlines, friends who are gate agents. One thing I know from my personal experience and from talking with my friends is that there is no such thing as THE AIRLINE. For that matter, I can't think of any organization with more than one or two persons which is so monolithic that it could be described in such terms. The bean counters at Delta, United, etc. try to figure ways to avoid too great a financial loss. The PR folks establish schedules that seem to ignore the possibility of weather, inadequate staffing of FAA controllers or other disruption, in order to try and fill one more passenger onto the plane. The cabin crew are left with trying to pleasantly cope with a bunch of frustrated people who would rather save a few bucks than check their bags (and who apparently are clueless about size limitations). The flight crew is left with trying to get out and away as fast as possible so they don't get a black mark with a late arrival. The experienced traveler is left to recall when airline travel was better than riding the Greyhound bus, as he sits with his knees in his face, his obese seat mate's blubber spilling across the arm rest, just hoping they get it together soon and get underway so that the torture will soon be over. I did have a couple of pleasant airline experiences recently. In the first I flew into Flint MI, had had a very tight connection in Milwaukee. I made the flight, my luggage didn't. I am going to be in Midland [about 60 miles away] I told the person at the counter in Flint. Not a problem she said. We've delivered bags toTraverse City. [about 190 miles] And I had the luggage the next day. On my next flight in that direction I went through Detroit. Got to the counter for the connecting flight, found that there would be a 20-minute departure delay. Because it was the last flight of the day to Midland, they had people coming in on flights that had suffered weather delays, and they were waiting to try and give them a chance to make the connection. When we did leave, it reminded me of MASH episodes when Radar would yell Bug out! We pushed back from the gate, and then a minute or two later we were in the air. I am still not convinced that the pilot didn't take off from the taxiway to avoid wasting time by going all the way out to the runway. We arrived just about on the scheduled time. Air travel may be frustrating, but the airlines still have a lot of good service-oriented people working for them who try and make the experience as painless as possible. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Stan Halpin s...@stans-photography.info wrote: On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Tom C wrote: I've heard this .. 'The number one reason for late departures is because travelers delay departure by not handling their carryon items properly.' WHAT??? The CUSTOMER is responsible for late departures? Who decided to change their policy and charge an exhorbitant fee to check luggage, so that now 70% of the passengers bring the larger carrier on bags into the passenger compartment? THE AIRLINE. ... I don't doubt anything you told me Stan. I just thought it very poor form to pass the blame off to the customer for late departures and to essentially tell them it's not our fault, it's yours. Even if that were true, it's in very poor form to treat a customer that way. Example - what if I bring my camera to the local camera store in Regina, SK. I tell them I can't get the histogram to display properly and the camera picks it own focus point. The tall bald man with the mustache behind the counter brings out the manual and shows it to me saying See it's your fault, you sniveling low-life excuse for a tapeworm. Next time read the manual and go crawl back up in the butthole you came from if you can find it. I wouldn't like that in the same way I don't like the gate agent trying to make me feel guilty for their crowded bins and late departure. :-) The experienced traveler is left to recall when airline travel was better than riding the Greyhound bus, as he sits with his knees in his face, his obese seat mate's blubber spilling across the arm rest, just hoping they get it together soon and get underway so that the torture will soon be over. Isn't that the truth! Point taken. I used the word airline euphmestically, probably because the gate agent is the face person for them at that point in time. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: OT: airlines (was Re: Message from Henry Posner, Part I)
On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 08:14:35PM -0600, Stan Halpin wrote: On Feb 5, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Tom C wrote: I've heard this .. 'The number one reason for late departures is because travelers delay departure by not handling their carryon items properly.' WHAT??? The CUSTOMER is responsible for late departures? Who decided to change their policy and charge an exhorbitant fee to check luggage, so that now 70% of the passengers bring the larger carrier on bags into the passenger compartment? THE AIRLINE. ... I travel frequently, my wife has been logging 1600+ miles per week for over two years now. We have friends who are (former) executives at airlines, friends who are current or former pilots for major airlines, friends who are gate agents. One thing I know from my personal experience and from talking with my friends is that there is no such thing as THE AIRLINE. For that matter, I can't think of any organization with more than one or two persons which is so monolithic that it could be described in such terms. The bean counters at Delta, United, etc. try to figure ways to avoid too great a financial loss. The PR folks establish schedules that seem to ignore the possibility of weather, inadequate staffing of FAA controllers or other disruption, in order to try and fill one more passenger onto the plane. The cabin crew are left with trying to pleasantly cope with a bunch of frustrated people who would rather save a few bucks than check their bags (and who apparently are clueless a bout size limitations). The flight crew is left with trying to get out and away as fast as possible so they don't get a black mark with a late arrival. The experienced traveler is left to recall when airline travel was better than riding the Greyhound bus, as he sits with his knees in his face, his obese seat mate's blubber spilling across the arm rest, just hoping they get it together soon and get underway so that the torture will soon be over. A point that Tom also conveniently ignores, when assigning blame, is that THE AIRLINE has to sell a product people will buy. As the great American public has consistently demonstrated, they will buy the product at the cheapest price point, no matter what other drawbacks there are. That means that THE AIRLINE will do everything it can to keep the base price down, even if this means add-on fees for checked baggage. That same spirit of cheapness is why people will try and bring on too many (or too large) carry-on items - they aren't prepared to pay an extra $10 for comfort, and so they make everybody else suffer. But I would certainly hate to be the agent that had to tell the worst abusers that they couldn't take *that* on board. I must admit I've stretched the rules myself - my Pelican 1510 case qualifies as a carry-on on most airlines, and I regularly flew with that and my computer bag. While technically within the rules, it does push them to the extremes. But I'm not really prepared to hand either pieces of equipment over to baggage handlers if I can avoid it. Sometimes it's unavoidable - the 250-600 has to go in the hold - but generally the one bag + one item such as a computer or camera is enough. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
