Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-16 Thread Bgpentax

In a message dated 3/14/2002 9:15:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 If Sigma can justify a nice one in, of all 
 mounts, their own SIgma mount.for heavens sake, it's inexcusible 

  How 'bout we call Sigma and ask for a K-mount..its not that big a stretch
  now that the body/electronics are on the open market...The Sigma-DK would
  sell 1000's of units if Pentax glass holders jumped aboard..or should we 
wait
  for Foveon...??
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-16 Thread Lawrence Kwan

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Mark Cassino wrote:
 According to the IDC report published for 2001, overall US market share
 leaders for the year were Sony at 23%, Olympus at 16% and Hewlett-Packard
 at 15%.  Kodak came in at #4 after its strong sale in Q4 2001.
 What is the IDC report and where is it available?

IDC, International Data Corp., is a research firm.
The full report is all yours at a cool US$1,500!
http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jhtml?containerId=26518

We can only get a glimpse of the report through other newswire coverage.
E.g.
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-827470.html

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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-16 Thread dave o'brien

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Cyril MARION wrote:
 this is exactly what the e-film offers : to allow a replaceable CCD sensor
 into a standard SLR.

*sigh*e-film/imagek/silicon film again.  We ought to put this is the 
'welcome to PDML' email: It doesn't exist!  It's vapourware!  

dave
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Alan Chan

...and BTW I expect people to buy non-Nikon and Canon digital slr to same
extent as they buy film based slr's. Besides, I believe digital may reach a
new market less concerned about whether or not the product have a certain
name.

Seems to be that way so far, just like PCs.

regards,
Alan Chan


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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Pål Audun Jensen

Bruce wrote:


I have
no idea just who is going to be buying that Sigma.


It may be that many digital buyers may choose camera more on chip 
specification than name; like computers. As for lenses, most people own a 
couple of cheap zoom lenses and quite frankly, in this area Sigma is pretty 
good.


Pål
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Mark Roberts

Pål Audun Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Bruce wrote:

I have no idea just who is going to be buying that Sigma.

It may be that many digital buyers may choose camera more on chip 
specification than name; like computers. As for lenses, most people own a 
couple of cheap zoom lenses and quite frankly, in this area Sigma is pretty 
good.

Sigma's EX series lenses appear to be very good indeed and I do respect the fact
that Sigma appears to be the only third party lens maker dovoting a lot of
effort to good primes as well as zooms. But even so, if you buy the Sigma
camera, you're stuck with *only* Sigma lenses. I wonder what the chances are of
Sigma getting Tamron and Tokina to offer lenses in their mount? ;-)

-- 
Mark Roberts
www.robertstech.com
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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Rob Brigham

Yep, Sigma seem to be pushing the boundaries of becoming a good OEM.  If
they get a camera with a distinct advantage (eg. FOVEON) which sells
well, they will be up there with the rest of them.  The only real
disadvantage to Sigma these days is lack of SMC (like all other than
Pentax), compatibility issues (not an issue with their own mount,
surely), and build quality (which I rate as very good on the EX range,
and comparitively OK even at the cheapo range).

If their bodies sell well enough, Tamron and Tokina would be stupid not
to make lenses in that mount!

 -Original Message-
 From: Mark Roberts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sigma's EX series lenses appear to be very good indeed and I 
 do respect the fact
 that Sigma appears to be the only third party lens maker 
 dovoting a lot of
 effort to good primes as well as zooms. But even so, if you 
 buy the Sigma
 camera, you're stuck with *only* Sigma lenses. I wonder what 
 the chances are of
 Sigma getting Tamron and Tokina to offer lenses in their mount? ;-)
 
 -- 
 Mark Roberts
 www.robertstech.com
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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Rob Brigham

 From: Pål Audun Jensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 
 According to the rumors Pentax will release their digital slr 
 in exactly 
 one week the 22. of Mars. It will cost 1200USD which probably 
 translate  into a mail order price below $1000.
 We will see in one week whether this rumor is true or not. Anyway, 
 everybody within the Pentax organization expect to see this 
 digital slr no 
 later than Photokina in September anyhow.

I hope you are right.  The price would be fantastic - this is only just
above the film MZ-S price!  If we get them in the UK for £700ish then
sign me up today, even if its not full frame.

 ...and BTW I expect people to buy non-Nikon and Canon digital 
 slr to same 
 extent as they buy film based slr's. Besides, I believe 
 digital may reach a 
 new market less concerned about whether or not the product 
 have a certain name.

Yeah, but this new market is concerned about pixel count, spec sheets
and so on.  Somthing I dont think Pentax will really be competitive on
compared to C* and N* in this round.
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RE: Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Exactly.. 

Take a look at Contax's (still waiting release) Digital.. 
Estimated street price is HUGE ($7,000 US) 
Umm.. I think I'd go out and buy myself a complete line of lenses and such for that 
coinage.

They'll release it when they're ready... and.. if they're smart... they're taking 
notes on what users are saying the like AND what they don't like in the recent 
releases from Nikon, Canon, Sigma etc.

Dave


From: Aaron Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:50:57 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Call Pentax  Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount


On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 10:10  PM, Bruce Rubenstein wrote:

 With DSLRs just now dropping below $2000, the question is how many 
 people are
 going to pay that for a Pentax?

Yep, that's why they shelved their first DSLR before it hit the market: 
it would be too expensive and not good enough.

I don't think calling Pentax and demanding that they release their 
digital before it is ready is a good idea.  We know they're working on 
it, they said as much in their press release announcing the demise of 
the original MZ-D or whatever you want to call it.  They'll sell it to 
us as soon as they think they can.  I'd rather wait a little while 
longer and have a better camera than have overpriced junk now...wouldn't 
everyone?

-Aaron




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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Pål Audun Jensen

Rob wrote:


I hope you are right.


It's not me who is right or not. Its the source of the rumor. I have no 
idea if the claimed 3mp slr built on the MZ-D is real. The rumor further 
says that the camera will have 2,5fps rate, 8 continuous frames and APS 
sized CCD. Both in black and chrome versions.  Apparently, the camera can 
be demonstrated at the Photo Expo 2002 show starting one week from today. 
The whole thing may be bull.


Yeah, but this new market is concerned about pixel count, spec sheets
and so on.  Somthing I dont think Pentax will really be competitive on
compared to C* and N* in this round.


But the digital parts are all off-the-shelf items that anyone more or less 
can take advantage of.

Pål
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Aaron Reynolds

On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 09:14  AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Exactly..

 Take a look at Contax's (still waiting release) Digital..
 Estimated street price is HUGE ($7,000 US)

Didn't that thing finally street?  Has anyone seen a review?

-Aaron
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RE: Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Nope.. 
As of Tuesday March 12... it's delayed for another 13 days... and that's in JAPAN... 
so you can just imagine how long that thing is going to take to get over to North 
America and Europe.

Dave


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 09:14  AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Exactly..

 Take a look at Contax's (still waiting release) Digital..
 Estimated street price is HUGE ($7,000 US)

Didn't that thing finally street?  Has anyone seen a review?

-Aaron



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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Pat White

I'd like a digital K-mount camera, too, but can't any of the manufacturers find a way 
to make a modular, updateable, body?  (Now that I think of it, there's the Mamiya 
645AFd.)  If the CCD could be replaced with the latest version, the camera could stay 
current for more than a year or two.  Press professionals may not mind replacing their 
cameras every time a new model comes out, but I think the rest of us would like to 
keep ours for quite a while.

There may be technical reasons that make it difficult to replace a, say, 3-megapixel 
CCD with next year's 7-meg unit, but it would make DSLRs more attractive.  You can 
take a 60-year-old film camera and use 2002 film in it, which I find pretty cool.  I'd 
like a DSLR that won't be a doorstop in five years, or is that just being unrealistic?

Pat White

Don't dream it, be it!  Dr. Frank N. Furter
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Mark Cassino

At 06:50 AM 3/15/02 -0500, Mark wrote:

Sigma's EX series lenses appear to be very good indeed and I do respect 
the fact
that Sigma appears to be the only third party lens maker dovoting a lot of
effort to good primes as well as zooms. But even so, if you buy the Sigma
camera, you're stuck with *only* Sigma lenses. I wonder what the chances 
are of
Sigma getting Tamron and Tokina to offer lenses in their mount? ;-)

It seems like Sigma is pursuing a long term strategy aimed at transforming 
them from a third party lens manufactured to a full fledged photographic 
supplier.  The digital revolution might open an opportunity for them to 
seize significant market share as people retool, and their products 
(lenses, flashes, and bodies) are competitive.  Their lens lineup is also 
pretty complete, with the exception of a fast 50mm or other normal lens 
(though they have the 50mm f2.8 macro, which is excellent.)

If Sigma plays their cards right through the digital revolution, we may be 
looking at a future where they are in the #3 spot behind Canon and Nikon.

- MCC


- - - - - - - - - -
Mark Cassino
Kalamazoo, MI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Photos:
http://www.markcassino.com
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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Bruce Rubenstein

Just because it's electronic it doesn't mean it's like a desktop PC: lots of
room and well defined subsystem/component interfaces. Physically, it's like the
difference in changing a socketed CPU in a desktop motherboard and a surface
mount CPU in a laptop. Even if you could physically get CCDs changed/upgraded,
if you double the pixel count, the amount of data doubles so things will take
twice as long. It's like updating film by replacing the emulsion on a film's
base, not changing the film canister.


--- Pat White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There may be technical reasons that make it difficult to replace a, say,
 3-megapixel CCD with next year's 7-meg unit, but it would make DSLRs more
 attractive.  You can take a 60-year-old film camera and use 2002 film in it,
 which I find pretty cool.  I'd like a DSLR that won't be a doorstop in five
 years, or is that just being unrealistic?
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Cotty

It always comes to (s)he who waits.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

;-)

Cotty

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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Cyril MARION

 Pat White wrote :

 There may be technical reasons that make it difficult to
 replace a, say, 3-megapixel CCD with next year's 7-meg unit,
 but it would make DSLRs more attractive.  You can take a
 60-year-old film camera and use 2002 film in it, which I find
 pretty cool.  I'd like a DSLR that won't be a doorstop in
 five years, or is that just being unrealistic?

Pat,

this is exactly what the e-film offers : to allow a replaceable CCD sensor
into a standard SLR.
This principle is ideal in theory, but the company which sells this (silicon
film inc.) faces several severe difficulties :
- the company size is too small to over pass thechnical difficulties...
- it has no financial envergure nor support...
- it is annoyed (not helped, or not supported, I dont know the exact
english world...) by the Big SLR manufacturers, which prefer to sell new
SLR's, instead of allowing used SLR's to be digitalized by e-film.

To know more about e-film I enclose the link (those who already know if
forgive me):
http://www.siliconfilm.com/

Cheers,

Cyril.
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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread gfen

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Cyril MARION wrote:
 To know more about e-film I enclose the link (those who already know if
 forgive me):
 http://www.siliconfilm.com/

Except the company never provided a working example, and folded awhile
ago.

It was a cute idea, though. I'd have bought one.

-- 
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 The destructive character is cheerful.  - Walter Benjamin
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread T Rittenhouse

Yah, the big guys kept the 200mpg carburetor off the market too. And that
pill you put in your gas tank and fill it with water was kept off the market
by the oil companies. And the patent office will not even listen to the guy
who have PMM designs. Life is hell, ain't it.

Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto



- Original Message -
From: Brendan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Call Pentax  Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount


 E film doesn't have the resolution, storage capacity
 nor the price to compete. Now if they redid their
 offering with a 3-4 mp chip and more memory then it
 would be viable, but then no one would buy a new 4 mp
 dslr so the big companies offer them no help, the chip
 makers to may not want to help them either .

 --- Cyril MARION [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Pat White wrote :
 
   There may be technical reasons that make it
  difficult to
   replace a, say, 3-megapixel CCD with next year's
  7-meg unit,
   but it would make DSLRs more attractive.  You can
  take a
   60-year-old film camera and use 2002 film in it,
  which I find
   pretty cool.  I'd like a DSLR that won't be a
  doorstop in
   five years, or is that just being unrealistic?
 
  Pat,
 
  this is exactly what the e-film offers : to allow a
  replaceable CCD sensor
  into a standard SLR.
  This principle is ideal in theory, but the company
  which sells this (silicon
  film inc.) faces several severe difficulties :
  - the company size is too small to over pass
  thechnical difficulties...
  - it has no financial envergure nor support...
  - it is annoyed (not helped, or not supported, I
  dont know the exact
  english world...) by the Big SLR manufacturers,
  which prefer to sell new
  SLR's, instead of allowing used SLR's to be
  digitalized by e-film.
 
  To know more about e-film I enclose the link (those
  who already know if
  forgive me):
  http://www.siliconfilm.com/
 
  Cheers,
 
  Cyril.
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Brendan

TOM TOm ToM :-)

--- T Rittenhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Yah, the big guys kept the 200mpg carburetor off the
 market too. And that
 pill you put in your gas tank and fill it with water
 was kept off the market
 by the oil companies. And the patent office will not
 even listen to the guy
 who have PMM designs. Life is hell, ain't it.
 
 Ciao,
 Graywolf
 http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto


 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Brendan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:05 PM
 Subject: RE: Call Pentax  Demand A Digital
 SLR/K-Mount
 
 
  E film doesn't have the resolution, storage
 capacity
  nor the price to compete. Now if they redid their
  offering with a 3-4 mp chip and more memory then
 it
  would be viable, but then no one would buy a new 4
 mp
  dslr so the big companies offer them no help, the
 chip
  makers to may not want to help them either .
 
  --- Cyril MARION [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pat White wrote :
  
There may be technical reasons that make it
   difficult to
replace a, say, 3-megapixel CCD with next
 year's
   7-meg unit,
but it would make DSLRs more attractive.  You
 can
   take a
60-year-old film camera and use 2002 film in
 it,
   which I find
pretty cool.  I'd like a DSLR that won't be a
   doorstop in
five years, or is that just being unrealistic?
  
   Pat,
  
   this is exactly what the e-film offers : to
 allow a
   replaceable CCD sensor
   into a standard SLR.
   This principle is ideal in theory, but the
 company
   which sells this (silicon
   film inc.) faces several severe difficulties :
   - the company size is too small to over pass
   thechnical difficulties...
   - it has no financial envergure nor support...
   - it is annoyed (not helped, or not
 supported, I
   dont know the exact
   english world...) by the Big SLR manufacturers,
   which prefer to sell new
   SLR's, instead of allowing used SLR's to be
   digitalized by e-film.
  
   To know more about e-film I enclose the link
 (those
   who already know if
   forgive me):
   http://www.siliconfilm.com/
  
   Cheers,
  
   Cyril.
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 List.
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   go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the
 directions.
   Don't forget to
   visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at
   http://pug.komkon.org .
  
 
 
 

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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Lawrence Kwan

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Mark Cassino wrote:
 If Sigma plays their cards right through the digital revolution, we may be
 looking at a future where they are in the #3 spot behind Canon and Nikon.

Now, are you referring to the over digital camera market in general, or
are you just limiting yourself to the Digital SLR market?  Because if you
are talking about the overal digital camera market in US, Nikon and Canon
don't even figure in the top 4!

According to the IDC report published for 2001, overall US market share
leaders for the year were Sony at 23%, Olympus at 16% and Hewlett-Packard
at 15%.  Kodak came in at #4 after its strong sale in Q4 2001.  North
American market represents 47% of the world-wide digital camera market.
Sony, Olympus, Fuji, Kodak and Canon were the top-five ranked worldwide
digital camera vendors.

You can also get interesting deductions from the IDC reports for US market
(I am not able to find the detailed breakdown of the statistics).  They
divided the digital camera into various categories: toy digital camera,
digital camcorder with attachment (whatever that means), low-end,
point-and-shoot, and digital SLR.  Shipments of point-and-shoot digicams
was up 30% to 6.5 million units in 2001.  Overall digicam shipments up
only 2% to 8 million units.  And low-end digicams accounted for 1.5
million units.  So basically, all other categories do not make a dent in
the over camera sales statistics.

I am sure if you use revenue statistics, Nikon, Canon and Minolta may fare
better, but I still don't think they would make the top three.  And if you
are the Pentax marketing people looking at these statistics, what
decisions would *YOU* have make??


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RE: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-15 Thread Rob Brigham

Except that you lose the number 1 feature of all digital cameras - the
preview screen!

Without that you cannot edit  delete unwanted pictures and you run out
of precious storage space in no time, or be even more thrifty than large
format photographers to conserve space!

This is assuming they got enough resolution into the chip which they
would have done eventually.

 -Original Message-
 From: Cyril MARION [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 this is exactly what the e-film offers : to allow a 
 replaceable CCD sensor into a standard SLR.
 This principle is ideal in theory...
 
 Cyril.
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-14 Thread RDJ92807

I don't know if this would help, but calling the Corporate Pentax offices and 
demanding a decent k-mount digital slr needs to be done by as many of us 
Pentax lovers as possible.  If Sigma can justify a nice one in, of all 
mounts, their own SIgma mount.for heavens sake, it's inexcusible that 
Pentax does not yet have one.  Pentax lovers are not going to hold out 
forever..if Pentax doesn't bring one out this year, it may be too late in 
my opinion.  I hope they get the message soon.

Robert James
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Re: Call Pentax Demand A Digital SLR/K-Mount

2002-03-14 Thread Pål Audun Jensen

Bruce wrote:


With DSLRs just now dropping below $2000, the question is how many people are
going to pay that for a Pentax? Minolta isn't trying to do it right now. I 
have
no idea just who is going to be buying that Sigma. It costs too much to come
out with a product that's obsolete after 2 years and not have it be a sales
success. (A niche product like the MZ-S can get by on limited sales, 
because it
can be sold for many years.) I wouldn't expect Pentax to come out with a DSLR
until they can do it for close to $1000 selling price.


According to the rumors Pentax will release their digital slr in exactly 
one week the 22. of Mars. It will cost 1200USD which probably 
translate  into a mail order price below $1000.
We will see in one week whether this rumor is true or not. Anyway, 
everybody within the Pentax organization expect to see this digital slr no 
later than Photokina in September anyhow.

...and BTW I expect people to buy non-Nikon and Canon digital slr to same 
extent as they buy film based slr's. Besides, I believe digital may reach a 
new market less concerned about whether or not the product have a certain 
name.

Pål
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